June 18, 2025 • 31 mins
During a recent weekend away with friends, we found ourselves deep in conversation about the power of cringe—that awkward, vulnerable feeling that comes with trying something new and not being good at it (yet). After sharing some thoughtful listener feedback, we pick up that thread and follow it through a winding, reflective chat that begins with personal growth and ends in a surprisingly philosophical exploration of remorse, redemption, and what it means to truly show up.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello. I'm Amanda Keller and I'm Anita McGrath, and welcome
to Double A Chattery.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
When I'm just turning this down because my ears just
went lasting out of my head.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, you're not doing proper podcasting or radio, and as
there's droplets of blood coming from your ears and Easter,
I have ronic deafness from years of radio, and I
with my headphones on a Friday, I take them off,
come back in on a Monday, and I go, oh
my god, so loud them. In a few minutes, I've
turned them back up again.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I just did my eyeballs just like pop out when
you were certain seeing something because it was just wow,
that's how you felt. It was like a cartoon thing.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
A lot of people would like to hear my voice
very loud in their heads. Anita, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Everybody turn up your podcast please do. Let's all bleed
from the years together. A little while back, we did.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
A Double a Chattery about whether it's okay to lie
on your CV. What's the difference between exaggeration and pushing
yourself a little bit forward, going to the front of
the queue, and outright lying. If you can competently do
the job anyway, does it matter. We've all met people
who've lied on their cvs, and people boast throughout history
of how they've done it. Is that all right?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
What I really loved is that the comments that we
got were in some ways. There were some people who
have very very clear opinions, like Sherry Job and someone
you worked with.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
She was on some Intandon's wonder World, my very first
job as a researcher. She's a reporter with still great mates.
What did Sherry say?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
She was very clear. She was like, lying is a
big no no, and she's and this was about her
ability to feel like she could trust somebody that she
worked with. And I get that, like I think that
if you find out later that somebody has lied about something,
you know that there is that sense of, oh, you know,
what else would they what else would they lie about?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
On the other hand, she also talked about sometimes that
work relationships, previous work relationships, can be complicated. You know
that there can be reasons that people left a work situation,
and that sometimes you are crafting a CV so that
it kind of eases or softens a situation where you
(02:46):
may have left or been asked to leave, where the
situation was very complicated.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Should they be full disclosure?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Well, you know that, like, well, maybe the person gets
to say their side, but the reality is, you know,
ever get to know the person the other you know,
the other party's perception of why that person was asked
to leave.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
We should do another podcast about writing references then, whoever
is going to be honest in a reference? Whoever? Or
you know, it's it's very easy to say nice things
about someone. You're never going to ask someone to give
you a reference if you don't think that they're going
to write something positive about you.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I've got some good stories about this. Yeah, let's do
a podcast on that.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I want to hear. Give me one little story right now.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh, a colleague who actually did write a very honest
and not very lovely reference about about somebody, and then
it was completely overlooked. And then of course that that
person went on to get hired and so that the
(03:50):
reference was overlooked.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So they wrote a very honest thing saying, yeah, I
wouldn't recommend them.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, that was ignored. And of course, of course the
thing that people ever are always kind of you know
that that person predicted actually happened, and you could see
this person with that, you know, trying not to say
I told you so. And yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
The guts it takes to write a reference like that,
because it's so much easier just to say, aren't they fabulous?
And I've written a lot of references for people I've
never lied. But so if you're always going to say
nice things about somebody, of course you are. But no
one would ever ask me to write a reference if
I didn't think they're any good.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Mm. I just had a reference written for me recently,
and the person was kind enough to send me a
copy of it, and I nearly wept when I read
it because it was this person as a colleague who
is kind of in a similar situation to me, and
she just absolutely saw me and it was it was beautiful,
(04:52):
you know these things. Yeah, references can be amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
What about the real one she sent in?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's the one she sent. Yeah, she
sent another one and then sent this really lovely one
to me because.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
We're all humans and it's very hard, that conflict in
our lives, in our workplaces, in all of it, and
everyone's just trying to get along. You really don't want
to stir trouble where you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
No, it was, yeah, it was. What I've found is
that this whole thing about lying on the CV did
really actually stir some stuff. And I think that people
came into it, and I loved in the comments. It
was Kathy Booth who indicated, you know, don't do it,
and then it was like but and then she wrote, hmm,
I've just confused myself, you know. And I think that
(05:38):
that's kind of where we all sit, where we kind
of go back and forth between how do we how
do we negotiate this difficult world of putting your best
foot forward in a way that you're likely to go
and get a position, but that you're also not going
to oversell yourself so that you're going to, you know,
(05:58):
get a bad reputation that you know, oosted from a
new position because you don't know what you're doing. Like
how do you have every.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Job interview, you've seen in a movie or read about online,
any of that stuff is be your best self, be
Bolshey puts yourself forward, knock on doors, blah blah blah.
That's where the prize is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, and you don't get so much of the person
being in the position and going Holy morly, I said, know.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
How to make munitions?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, I said, I did.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
What are the chances?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I thought. Today we talk about something that came up
a bit on the weekend. You and I went away
with a great group of women and there were seven
of us, and some of the conversations were around as
we all get older, we're all in the age backet
of late fifties, early sixties of not wanting to make
ourselves smaller. Some of us were on the cusp of retiring,
(07:06):
some had retired, some are coming to terms with retiring
and what that means. Some of us are still working.
But we all didn't want to disappear. And it made
me think of a couple of things I've seen written
recently about the nature of overcoming your fear of cringe.
There's an Australian actor who lives in la and I
(07:26):
follow him on socials and I just think he's terrific,
And he talks about about this that everything you want
and aspire to be and have to risk to be
lies on the other side of cringe.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Everything you want is on the other side of cringe.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Think about it.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I think there's two parts to cringe. It's a how
it makes you feel sucks. It makes me feel like
I suck. This is making me cringe. And then there's
the imagination of what you think other people are saying,
and sometimes they are sometimes they're saying I can't believe
they're trying to do that. There it's making content, just
learning a language, learning an instrument. It's all on the
other side of embarrassment, whether it be personal or social.
(08:04):
The only way to get good at something is to
immerse yourself in it and be bad at it.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And it's so interesting. And I look at one of
my sons who likes to be good at things, and
he is good at things, but it doesn't enjoy the
journey if he's not good at things. And when it
came to riding a bike when he was younger, tried,
wasn't any good, didn't like it. That's a classic example
of not pushing through the cringe, the falling over the scrape, dilbows,
(08:30):
the humiliation, all that stuff, and it's much easier to
not do that, but all the great stuff lies on
the other side of it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Well, wouldn't it be lovely if we were just born
with this inny sense of complete competency and everything. We
know how to cook and we know how to ride
a bike, and we know how to play the piano,
and we know how to do all these things. But
that's not the reality of it, is that we have
to learn everything, and so we have to move from
the idea of being a novice. And I really love,
(09:02):
I really really love the idea of when you are
learning something, that you are a novice and that at
the opposite side is competent. But most people think that
the opposite of competent is incompetent, but it's actually not.
It's just like, I'm a novice. I'm trying this, I'm learning,
I'm trying to do I'm trying to get better at it,
(09:25):
and it is I love the phrase about you know
it's the cringe, because it is. It's awful being a novice.
I none of us really love being in that position
of learning something and maybe get getting some feedback or
feeling a failure or something not working. But it's the
(09:45):
way we learn things.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Or approaching something at our age thinking it's too hard
if I haven't done it by now. I admire my
brother who's taking swimming lessons, takes banjo lessons. He can't
play a banjo, but I want to, so I'll do this.
And he puts up with looking like an eat in
front of people, in front of me, and I mock
him all the time. This is part of it, too,
is how we view people who are going through that
(10:08):
phase for themselves. If you're going to be someone who's
going to be cynical about other people's desire to be
better at something, or to try something, or to stand up,
then we need to look at our own behavior. For years,
I thought I didn't want to host a show. I
didn't want to do anything that wasn't part of an ensemble,
(10:28):
because to put your head above the parapet meant you'd
be slagged off in the papers, you'd be mocked for
bad ratings, you'd be made to look why would you
do that show? So for years and years I didn't.
I didn't take a risk on that stuff, and even
now it's hard to take a risk on that stuff.
Could be the best of shows. No one goes into
a show with bad intentions. You know, they've recently announced
(10:48):
that the project is finishing. And if people go yeah sukah,
you think no one cheers when a post office closes.
So many people will be out of work, behind the scenes,
in front of the cameras, all of that. And that
show gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure,
and people were doing their best every single day. So
why do we take pleasure in mocking things that are ending,
(11:09):
in mocking things that aren't perfect at first? All that stuff?
We have to look at our own behavior. So on
one hand we're saying, push through the cringe for yourself,
but let others do it too, without your cynicism. And
that's another side of this, is to have some skin
in the game. That cynicism and not caring has probably
been cool in the past, but the new ethos is
(11:33):
leaning in and caring, because if you don't care, then
the world passes you by.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So two of my kind of gurus that I read
voraciously and pay attention to. One is Brown and she
talks about like One of her books was called Daring
Greatly and it was based on a speech by Teddy Roosevelt.
And can I read it to you late, So I
(12:14):
love this'. And this is something that is alluded to
in that in the real that weg is played.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And who's this? Who you're reading this is?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
This is Theodore Roosevelt Teddy. This was a speech made
in nineteen ten, and it says it is not the
critic who counts, not the man who points out how
the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds
could have done better. The credit belongs to the man
who's actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who airs
(12:45):
and comes up short again and again, because there is
no effort without error or shortcoming. But who knows the
great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a
worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end
the triumph of highatia achievement, And who, at the worst,
if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly,
(13:05):
so that his place shall never be with those cold
and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat. Those
were the days where President spoke complete sentence.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And complete sentences. Yes, I FM the heart and with
passion and something that's stirring.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But I love I love the idea that and Ronnie
Brown kind of talks about that you have to be
in the arena with me. You have to be the
one getting muddy and dirty and falling in the dust
for you to give me feedback. If you're sitting there
in the stands and looking down at me with your
nose in the air, going haha, look at and you know,
(13:46):
you know Anita has fallen again. Well, you know which
happens a lot like it's it's unless that person is
in the arena, they don't get to give you feedback,
they don't get to judge you. And I really love
that idea of kind of saying, we really need to
be valuing that that trial and effort, that that valiant work.
(14:10):
I just think it's amazing. The second person that I
read a lot is a woman named Carol Dwerk who
is a US researcher, and she talks about something called
growth mindset versus fixed mindset, And in the growth mindset,
it's basically you're willing to go out there and try something,
being you know, to be a novice and to go
(14:31):
and let yourself try and fail and learn how to
get better at something, because that's the way it actually happens,
versus that fixed mindset where it's like I don't want
anybody to see other than you know, this facade of perfection.
And so I'm actually not even gonna try. I'm just
gonna sit here and I'm gonna, you know, look, try
to look perfect. If I do make any mistakes, I'm
(14:51):
going to try to cover them up all related stuff
to the cringe.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think interesting when you said before about if you
don't have skin, the skin in the game. If you haven't,
if you're not trenches with me, you don't get to
have a say. I feel like that about our compulsory
voting in Australia. You cannot well, you can complain about policies,
but the fact that you've had to turn up and
cast your vote, like half of America is happy and
(15:15):
the other half's unhappy. You think, how many have you
actually voted? You don't have compulsory voting in Canada?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Do you don't? And it was really confronting, and I
still sit in a strange place around compulsory voting. I
actually think it's probably a good idea. I know in Canada.
In like municipal, smaller elections, you know, you're lucky to
get ten fifteen percent of people coming out to vote.
And in federal elections, this last one, I think it
(15:42):
was like sixty or seventy percent.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That was quite hard, imagic, quite hard thanks to the
Trump stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, it was all It was Trump, and it was
Corny versus you know, Polararon, and it was there was
a number of things. Was it was interesting. You know,
I love the fact that you have to go out
and how it's day. And I sometimes think that a
lot of people aren't engaged or aware voters and so
(16:10):
you know, they they yes, they should have a say
and and how does it? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's this sense of if I have to do it,
or am I just going to go in and am
I just going to that word?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Donkey vote?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, donkey vote. Am I just going to go and
wreck my ballot? Am I going to do that kind
of stuff? Or am I going to actually pay attention?
And I really want, I really want people to be
engaged in this process in the you know, of governance
of our of our own world. I don't know, what
do you think, like what you've always you've always had this, yes.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And I'm shocked that other countries don't, because how do
you get to complain about it if you haven't made it,
it made a choice, if you haven't turned up and
been part of the process. Yeah, even if it's just
to get a sausage, it means that you have you
have a preference, and maybe you've read about it, maybe
you've looked, you've looked at the paper, you know what
parties are involved. Even at the very least if you
(17:05):
draw a big donkey or a D and B now
dick and balls, I think that that's some level of engagement.
It's a protest vote, but you've gone out of your
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, And it actually is asking people to at least
make an effort, like, you know, even if it's just
getting to the to the voting station and you know,
doing a bad dick and balls, that at.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Least dick and balls. Yeah, y anatomically correct people pay attention. So,
I mean, those areas of cringe that we're talking about
are interesting, aren't they too. It's about how you feel
pushing through the cringe to get to something on the
other side. But it's also about how we observe the
world when other people are trying to be invested.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yes, And I was thinking about this on the weekend
when we were talking about about the cringe. And I
often think, and I love your opinion on this amount,
is that when you're young and you're trying something new
and you're not feeling very confident that walking into this cringe,
(18:17):
you know, just embracing that is it may be actually
in some ways beyond you. Whereas I was thinking that
here we are on the weekend away talking about women
in our fifties and sixties, we are we better at
it because we've had more experience at it, or because
(18:37):
we're older. We're thinking I shouldn't have to be in
the cringe anymore. I should be beyond this.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
It depends what the form of cringe is. Like I didn't,
for example, this is a really trite example, but I
didn't get a driver's license. Tell us in my twenties,
fully cringe. If you're going to be a bad learner driver,
be that at seventeen. To be that in your twenties
is embarrassing, And you think, am I going to be
the world's worst driver? Because I've left this so long
(19:04):
if you haven't lost your virginity by the time you're thirty,
you're thinking, am I going to be terrible at this?
And therefore you're full of insecurities about it. In a way,
you have your normal insecurities whenever it's going to happen,
but the longer you leave things. As I said my
brother Tay having swimming lessons, you can swim, but he
wanted to be better at it, but saying, hey, I'm
prepared to look foolish. That stuff is harder when you're older.
(19:27):
I think because everyone's bad in the beginning, we were
all novices together. To be bad when other people expect
you to be good is harder.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I think, Yeah, I'm really like I there's a part
of me that absolutely gets that and absolutely agrees. And
there's other part about it that, as I have come
into my later fifties and sixties, is that I am
way more willing to go and embrace my failures.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Like after an example of something where you've pushed through
to something where you've prepared to look.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Foolish, you know often with you know in teaching that
you know when I would be at the clinic. I
remember this one particular time where I had said something
completely stupid to a client in front of a student,
and uh, it was it was just it was a
(20:21):
phrase that I used that was inappropriate and for the moment,
and that the client looked at me, I looked at
them and I just looked at them and I just went,
oh fuck. And because I was, I was absolutely like
I was offended that I had said it. And the
client looked at me and had said, oh god, I
need it. That's fine, like it's you know, we'll get
(20:43):
through this. And we both kind of giggled and we
moved on, and I could see the client or the
student beside me face was full of judgment that I
had said this thing. But but you know, this happens
all the time in any human reaction or interaction, just
like in you know, in therapy, I say stupid stuff
all the time, and so and we get through it,
(21:06):
like that's part of the process. And so I remember
leaving that therapy session with the student and and you
could I could just see the student didn't even know
what to say to me, because I think that they
wanted to tell me that I had done like how
did you? How could you do that? Kind of and
I went to the to the there was a whole
kind of, you know, gaggle of students there and I went, yeah, God,
(21:29):
you wouldn't believe what I just did. And I kind
of said, this is what I did. And you could
see all the students, both full of judgment, and I
also hope that they were thinking, Oh, if Anita is
willing to embrace the mistakes that she's made, the errors
that she's made, maybe it's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
How do you Where do you sit on for giving
people mistakes? Working in the media, maybe working never working
in Maybe it's just because that's my Maybe it's everywhere,
but you can be and I hate the term counsel culture.
It's so overused and so all of that. But you
will have people having terrible judgments on you. And if
(22:11):
you make a mistake, you have to roll over, as
you say, pretend you're on fire, let the fire roll
over you, and say me a copper, even if you
don't agree with that. But do you think that everyone's
entitled to come back from any mistake? I mean, you
deal with clients who've made done some horrific things.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Absolutely, Where do you.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Allow mistakes in people's lives and a chance to reinvent.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So it took me a long time to figure out
why I do like the forensic work. You know that,
you know, because a lot of people have a great
deal of judgment around a lot of the population that
I work with. And I finally it took me a
long time, but I finally realized that I don't like
(23:03):
I don't want to be judged by the worst thing
that I've ever done. And here's this whole group in
our society that has been judged for often the worst
thing that they may have ever done. And and where
does forgiveness, like, how do we how are we as
a society if we can't forgive.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
If they've done if the one thing they've done, you know,
is ginning a cat alive in front of a classroom,
for example.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Don't do that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's what if it's something big, you go as a society,
we can't allow that.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, And and and again that's where punishment, you know,
that's where our justice system comes in. And then so
what happens is it, you know, let's say that this
person does this horrific thing and they get jail time
or or you know, whatever the the you know, the
thing that the court feels is appropriate, and then what
(24:03):
you know, do they just you know, does that judgment
sit forever or is there a way back?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Now?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I think that there is a bit, And I know
courts are really interested in the idea of remorse, you know,
do you feel bad for what you've done. It's a
strange concept because remorse happens after an action. So it's
kind of hard when we talk about providing treatment because
(24:30):
it happens after right, So if the guy thought it
would be a good idea to skin a cat, then
that's a terrible example. But we're going to use this,
We're going to go with it. Amanda, is that if
he does that and he feels bad about it after,
what does he feel bad about Does he feel bad
because he hurt the cat, because he traumatized a bunch
of children, or does he feel bad because he was caught?
(24:55):
And those are very different things.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
And as a court you can't know what the story is.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Well, that's kind of my job is to try to
figure out what the story is and to recognize that
if we are looking to provide treatment, looking for that
remorse is probably not as important as understanding what went
into the decision. In the first place. For him to
want to do that and to go and try to
change that trajectory, Well.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I've let us down an unusual pass.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I know, I don't know how we got here, but
it's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And I don't want people to think I don't like cats.
I'm not a fan of cats the musical necessarily, but
cats themselves, I'm okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we
started with pushing through the cringe and ended up with well,
I think we ended up that, hey, push yourself and
if you make mistakes, you're entitled to have a discussion
(25:47):
around that too.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, And I love What I really am picking up
from this conversation for me is that cringe happens when
you're young and you have that self consciousness about how
are people going to see me? And that doesn't change
you know that, No, it doesn't change you know, cringe
is cringe as cringe, and that maybe we can start
(26:09):
feeling more confident about recognizing that if we can all
go through it, if we recognize it, we're all going
through cringe. If we want to continue to be to grow,
you know, to grow and be good human beings, then
then maybe part of it is kind of recognizing maybe
I shouldn't be judgmental of somebody else's mistakes. Somebody else
is going through that cringey, novice, ugly learning bit, and
(26:35):
you know, kind of recognizing that's the process.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah. I thought that when I was looking at the
show the Piano that I was hosting. The bravery it
takes for someone to step up and say, here's something
private and I'd like to share it with you, the
bravery that takes. And I was so glad the show
had no judgment around it in terms of people saying
that stinks, or holding up scorecards or any of that,
(26:59):
because I was very aware of what we were asking
people to do, and they were all embraced.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And they were all like, they were all coming with
their own story of their love for the piano, which
I just thought it was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, no one was sent home embarrassed, none of that.
Oh oh, thank you, Anita, thank you. So I feel
like you've given me a therapy session. Do I have
to pay for this?
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Always? Cup of tea? Should we get to our glimmers
launce you go first?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I saw this guy on social media. He goes around
on a skateboard with some wildflower seeds and a little
shaker and he sprinkles them on medium strips, sprinkles them
on footpaths, salads, salads. If you're Megan markle on a
salad and he they go. He goes back and has
(28:01):
a look at how these beautiful medium strips are suddenly
these thriving communities of bees, of pollen, of color. And
as he says, words equals actions. He said, get off
your phone, stop scrolling, and do something. And he does
it with a laugh and with fun. He's skateboarding around
the town and just lighting up wherever he goes. I
(28:23):
thought it was beautiful. Ironically, I saw that on my.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Social there is a bit of irony.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, I wasn't exactly building a garden as I saw
what he was doing. But that's nice.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
But he was also filming himself doing this, yes, and
putting it up on social and putting it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Up so he knows that. But if it inspires someone
to do something, I think good on him. I well
definitely see that goes with the theme of what we're
doing today, I guess, which is to lean into life,
to have skin in the game and actually stop being
apathetic and do something.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yep, Yeah, it'd be easy for me to go and
judge and say, oh, you know what a wanker you know,
look at him on social media saying, you know, go
and lean into it. But you know what, he's got
a great message. Yep, absolutely well done. So I'm going
to go and talk about the you know, social media
as well. I'm my glimmer is that I read this
(29:15):
to you on the weekend, Amanda. I just was so
excited by this message from Susan just and I'm going
to read it in its entirety.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And this was a message from one about teacups, isn't she?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That's right and it's high Amanda and Anita. I have
to admit that I've never become too involved with social
media because it was not available when I was young.
I am seventy nine, she says, But have become an
avid for your So this is my first time engagement.
Your podcast has probably given me a new view of life.
I can relate to every episode of the podcast from
your discussions about the roles we accepted when we got
(29:50):
married back in nineteen sixty eight. Can you believe this
to now that my husband has passed and I have
to learn to live alone and deal with all the
things that he did, like manage her ances. And she
goes on to say, I didn't even know who our
car insurance company was until after I had a small
accident and had some rooge band yelling at me while
I was in tears. And she talks about doing all
(30:10):
the home repairs and stuff, and she says, now through
your podcast, I've learned to laugh and talk about all
those taboos from my earlier life. Still can't with many
of my friends, but I've got my best friend listening,
and we share our thoughts each week. Makes our weekly
conversation so much more interesting. Now we don't talk about
our aches and pains, problems with our children are rail
against the world. Thank you for giving us new perspectives
(30:33):
with your wives and humorous views on everything. We both
learned a new word, mercan for.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Those that are new to the class, Anita, would you like.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
To tell us what Amercan is a mappotassius and American
is a I've a pubic week a pubic wig. Thank you.
That's a good one. Yeah. So for mostly was it
developed for people in the Middle Ages because they would
shave off their hair and then the.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Full teeth the Court of Louis four teeth or something.
Everyone had had crabs and you know, things like that,
so and they'd shave it off, they'd wear it, so
it looked like he had a healthy thatch.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Mm hmm and yeah, and then used again in the
in the recently to go and if you're filming in
Hollywood of the on the something that happened in the seventies, Yes,
nobody has a thatch anymore. That's right, you use American.
So anyway, so it but Susan Juice goes on to
just say, please keep the podcast coming. It says cheers,
(31:30):
and I'm just looking at this now, it says cheers
from Ruth. So whether it was Ruth or Susan who
wrote this, keep those lovely thoughts coming.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Absolutely all right. We will leave it there and we
will see next week.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah,
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello. I'm Amanda Keller and I'm Anita McGrath, and welcome
to Double A Chattery.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
When I'm just turning this down because my ears just
went lasting out of my head.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Okay, you're not doing proper podcasting or radio, and as
there's droplets of blood coming from your ears and Easter,
I have ronic deafness from years of radio, and I
with my headphones on a Friday, I take them off,
come back in on a Monday, and I go, oh
my god, so loud them. In a few minutes, I've
turned them back up again.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I just did my eyeballs just like pop out when
you were certain seeing something because it was just wow,
that's how you felt. It was like a cartoon thing.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
A lot of people would like to hear my voice
very loud in their heads. Anita, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Everybody turn up your podcast please do. Let's all bleed
from the years together. A little while back, we did.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
A Double a Chattery about whether it's okay to lie
on your CV. What's the difference between exaggeration and pushing
yourself a little bit forward, going to the front of
the queue, and outright lying. If you can competently do
the job anyway, does it matter. We've all met people
who've lied on their cvs, and people boast throughout history
of how they've done it. Is that all right?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
What I really loved is that the comments that we
got were in some ways. There were some people who
have very very clear opinions, like Sherry Job and someone
you worked with.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
She was on some Intandon's wonder World, my very first
job as a researcher. She's a reporter with still great mates.
What did Sherry say?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
She was very clear. She was like, lying is a
big no no, and she's and this was about her
ability to feel like she could trust somebody that she
worked with. And I get that, like I think that
if you find out later that somebody has lied about something,
you know that there is that sense of, oh, you know,
what else would they what else would they lie about?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
On the other hand, she also talked about sometimes that
work relationships, previous work relationships, can be complicated. You know
that there can be reasons that people left a work situation,
and that sometimes you are crafting a CV so that
it kind of eases or softens a situation where you
(02:46):
may have left or been asked to leave, where the
situation was very complicated.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Should they be full disclosure?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Well, you know that, like, well, maybe the person gets
to say their side, but the reality is, you know,
ever get to know the person the other you know,
the other party's perception of why that person was asked
to leave.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
We should do another podcast about writing references then, whoever
is going to be honest in a reference? Whoever? Or
you know, it's it's very easy to say nice things
about someone. You're never going to ask someone to give
you a reference if you don't think that they're going
to write something positive about you.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I've got some good stories about this. Yeah, let's do
a podcast on that.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I want to hear. Give me one little story right now.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh, a colleague who actually did write a very honest
and not very lovely reference about about somebody, and then
it was completely overlooked. And then of course that that
person went on to get hired and so that the
(03:50):
reference was overlooked.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So they wrote a very honest thing saying, yeah, I
wouldn't recommend them.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, that was ignored. And of course, of course the
thing that people ever are always kind of you know
that that person predicted actually happened, and you could see
this person with that, you know, trying not to say
I told you so. And yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
The guts it takes to write a reference like that,
because it's so much easier just to say, aren't they fabulous?
And I've written a lot of references for people I've
never lied. But so if you're always going to say
nice things about somebody, of course you are. But no
one would ever ask me to write a reference if
I didn't think they're any good.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Mm. I just had a reference written for me recently,
and the person was kind enough to send me a
copy of it, and I nearly wept when I read
it because it was this person as a colleague who
is kind of in a similar situation to me, and
she just absolutely saw me and it was it was beautiful,
(04:52):
you know these things. Yeah, references can be amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
What about the real one she sent in?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's the one she sent. Yeah, she
sent another one and then sent this really lovely one
to me because.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
We're all humans and it's very hard, that conflict in
our lives, in our workplaces, in all of it, and
everyone's just trying to get along. You really don't want
to stir trouble where you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
No, it was, yeah, it was. What I've found is
that this whole thing about lying on the CV did
really actually stir some stuff. And I think that people
came into it, and I loved in the comments. It
was Kathy Booth who indicated, you know, don't do it,
and then it was like but and then she wrote, hmm,
I've just confused myself, you know. And I think that
(05:38):
that's kind of where we all sit, where we kind
of go back and forth between how do we how
do we negotiate this difficult world of putting your best
foot forward in a way that you're likely to go
and get a position, but that you're also not going
to oversell yourself so that you're going to, you know,
(05:58):
get a bad reputation that you know, oosted from a
new position because you don't know what you're doing. Like
how do you have every.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Job interview, you've seen in a movie or read about online,
any of that stuff is be your best self, be
Bolshey puts yourself forward, knock on doors, blah blah blah.
That's where the prize is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, and you don't get so much of the person
being in the position and going Holy morly, I said, know.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
How to make munitions?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, I said, I did.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
What are the chances?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I thought. Today we talk about something that came up
a bit on the weekend. You and I went away
with a great group of women and there were seven
of us, and some of the conversations were around as
we all get older, we're all in the age backet
of late fifties, early sixties of not wanting to make
ourselves smaller. Some of us were on the cusp of retiring,
(07:06):
some had retired, some are coming to terms with retiring
and what that means. Some of us are still working.
But we all didn't want to disappear. And it made
me think of a couple of things I've seen written
recently about the nature of overcoming your fear of cringe.
There's an Australian actor who lives in la and I
(07:26):
follow him on socials and I just think he's terrific,
And he talks about about this that everything you want
and aspire to be and have to risk to be
lies on the other side of cringe.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Everything you want is on the other side of cringe.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Think about it.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I think there's two parts to cringe. It's a how
it makes you feel sucks. It makes me feel like
I suck. This is making me cringe. And then there's
the imagination of what you think other people are saying,
and sometimes they are sometimes they're saying I can't believe
they're trying to do that. There it's making content, just
learning a language, learning an instrument. It's all on the
other side of embarrassment, whether it be personal or social.
(08:04):
The only way to get good at something is to
immerse yourself in it and be bad at it.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And it's so interesting. And I look at one of
my sons who likes to be good at things, and
he is good at things, but it doesn't enjoy the
journey if he's not good at things. And when it
came to riding a bike when he was younger, tried,
wasn't any good, didn't like it. That's a classic example
of not pushing through the cringe, the falling over the scrape, dilbows,
(08:30):
the humiliation, all that stuff, and it's much easier to
not do that, but all the great stuff lies on
the other side of it.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Well, wouldn't it be lovely if we were just born
with this inny sense of complete competency and everything. We
know how to cook and we know how to ride
a bike, and we know how to play the piano,
and we know how to do all these things. But
that's not the reality of it, is that we have
to learn everything, and so we have to move from
the idea of being a novice. And I really love,
(09:02):
I really really love the idea of when you are
learning something, that you are a novice and that at
the opposite side is competent. But most people think that
the opposite of competent is incompetent, but it's actually not.
It's just like, I'm a novice. I'm trying this, I'm learning,
I'm trying to do I'm trying to get better at it,
(09:25):
and it is I love the phrase about you know
it's the cringe, because it is. It's awful being a novice.
I none of us really love being in that position
of learning something and maybe get getting some feedback or
feeling a failure or something not working. But it's the
(09:45):
way we learn things.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Or approaching something at our age thinking it's too hard
if I haven't done it by now. I admire my
brother who's taking swimming lessons, takes banjo lessons. He can't
play a banjo, but I want to, so I'll do this.
And he puts up with looking like an eat in
front of people, in front of me, and I mock
him all the time. This is part of it, too,
is how we view people who are going through that
(10:08):
phase for themselves. If you're going to be someone who's
going to be cynical about other people's desire to be
better at something, or to try something, or to stand up,
then we need to look at our own behavior. For years,
I thought I didn't want to host a show. I
didn't want to do anything that wasn't part of an ensemble,
(10:28):
because to put your head above the parapet meant you'd
be slagged off in the papers, you'd be mocked for
bad ratings, you'd be made to look why would you
do that show? So for years and years I didn't.
I didn't take a risk on that stuff, and even
now it's hard to take a risk on that stuff.
Could be the best of shows. No one goes into
a show with bad intentions. You know, they've recently announced
(10:48):
that the project is finishing. And if people go yeah sukah,
you think no one cheers when a post office closes.
So many people will be out of work, behind the scenes,
in front of the cameras, all of that. And that
show gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure,
and people were doing their best every single day. So
why do we take pleasure in mocking things that are ending,
(11:09):
in mocking things that aren't perfect at first? All that stuff?
We have to look at our own behavior. So on
one hand we're saying, push through the cringe for yourself,
but let others do it too, without your cynicism. And
that's another side of this, is to have some skin
in the game. That cynicism and not caring has probably
been cool in the past, but the new ethos is
(11:33):
leaning in and caring, because if you don't care, then
the world passes you by.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So two of my kind of gurus that I read
voraciously and pay attention to. One is Brown and she
talks about like One of her books was called Daring
Greatly and it was based on a speech by Teddy Roosevelt.
And can I read it to you late, So I
(12:14):
love this'. And this is something that is alluded to
in that in the real that weg is played.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And who's this? Who you're reading this is?
Speaker 1 (12:21):
This is Theodore Roosevelt Teddy. This was a speech made
in nineteen ten, and it says it is not the
critic who counts, not the man who points out how
the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds
could have done better. The credit belongs to the man
who's actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who airs
(12:45):
and comes up short again and again, because there is
no effort without error or shortcoming. But who knows the
great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a
worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end
the triumph of highatia achievement, And who, at the worst,
if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly,
(13:05):
so that his place shall never be with those cold
and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat. Those
were the days where President spoke complete sentence.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And complete sentences. Yes, I FM the heart and with
passion and something that's stirring.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
But I love I love the idea that and Ronnie
Brown kind of talks about that you have to be
in the arena with me. You have to be the
one getting muddy and dirty and falling in the dust
for you to give me feedback. If you're sitting there
in the stands and looking down at me with your
nose in the air, going haha, look at and you know,
(13:46):
you know Anita has fallen again. Well, you know which
happens a lot like it's it's unless that person is
in the arena, they don't get to give you feedback,
they don't get to judge you. And I really love
that idea of kind of saying, we really need to
be valuing that that trial and effort, that that valiant work.
(14:10):
I just think it's amazing. The second person that I
read a lot is a woman named Carol Dwerk who
is a US researcher, and she talks about something called
growth mindset versus fixed mindset, And in the growth mindset,
it's basically you're willing to go out there and try something,
being you know, to be a novice and to go
(14:31):
and let yourself try and fail and learn how to
get better at something, because that's the way it actually happens,
versus that fixed mindset where it's like I don't want
anybody to see other than you know, this facade of perfection.
And so I'm actually not even gonna try. I'm just
gonna sit here and I'm gonna, you know, look, try
to look perfect. If I do make any mistakes, I'm
(14:51):
going to try to cover them up all related stuff
to the cringe.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think interesting when you said before about if you
don't have skin, the skin in the game. If you haven't,
if you're not trenches with me, you don't get to
have a say. I feel like that about our compulsory
voting in Australia. You cannot well, you can complain about policies,
but the fact that you've had to turn up and
cast your vote, like half of America is happy and
(15:15):
the other half's unhappy. You think, how many have you
actually voted? You don't have compulsory voting in Canada?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Do you don't? And it was really confronting, and I
still sit in a strange place around compulsory voting. I
actually think it's probably a good idea. I know in Canada.
In like municipal, smaller elections, you know, you're lucky to
get ten fifteen percent of people coming out to vote.
And in federal elections, this last one, I think it
(15:42):
was like sixty or seventy percent.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That was quite hard, imagic, quite hard thanks to the
Trump stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, it was all It was Trump, and it was
Corny versus you know, Polararon, and it was there was
a number of things. Was it was interesting. You know,
I love the fact that you have to go out
and how it's day. And I sometimes think that a
lot of people aren't engaged or aware voters and so
(16:10):
you know, they they yes, they should have a say
and and how does it? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's this sense of if I have to do it,
or am I just going to go in and am
I just going to that word?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Donkey vote?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, donkey vote. Am I just going to go and
wreck my ballot? Am I going to do that kind
of stuff? Or am I going to actually pay attention?
And I really want, I really want people to be
engaged in this process in the you know, of governance
of our of our own world. I don't know, what
do you think, like what you've always you've always had this, yes.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And I'm shocked that other countries don't, because how do
you get to complain about it if you haven't made it,
it made a choice, if you haven't turned up and
been part of the process. Yeah, even if it's just
to get a sausage, it means that you have you
have a preference, and maybe you've read about it, maybe
you've looked, you've looked at the paper, you know what
parties are involved. Even at the very least if you
(17:05):
draw a big donkey or a D and B now
dick and balls, I think that that's some level of engagement.
It's a protest vote, but you've gone out of your
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, And it actually is asking people to at least
make an effort, like, you know, even if it's just
getting to the to the voting station and you know,
doing a bad dick and balls, that at.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Least dick and balls. Yeah, y anatomically correct people pay attention. So,
I mean, those areas of cringe that we're talking about
are interesting, aren't they too. It's about how you feel
pushing through the cringe to get to something on the
other side. But it's also about how we observe the
world when other people are trying to be invested.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yes, And I was thinking about this on the weekend
when we were talking about about the cringe. And I
often think, and I love your opinion on this amount,
is that when you're young and you're trying something new
and you're not feeling very confident that walking into this cringe,
(18:17):
you know, just embracing that is it may be actually
in some ways beyond you. Whereas I was thinking that
here we are on the weekend away talking about women
in our fifties and sixties, we are we better at
it because we've had more experience at it, or because
(18:37):
we're older. We're thinking I shouldn't have to be in
the cringe anymore. I should be beyond this.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
It depends what the form of cringe is. Like I didn't,
for example, this is a really trite example, but I
didn't get a driver's license. Tell us in my twenties,
fully cringe. If you're going to be a bad learner driver,
be that at seventeen. To be that in your twenties
is embarrassing, And you think, am I going to be
the world's worst driver? Because I've left this so long
(19:04):
if you haven't lost your virginity by the time you're thirty,
you're thinking, am I going to be terrible at this?
And therefore you're full of insecurities about it. In a way,
you have your normal insecurities whenever it's going to happen,
but the longer you leave things. As I said my
brother Tay having swimming lessons, you can swim, but he
wanted to be better at it, but saying, hey, I'm
prepared to look foolish. That stuff is harder when you're older.
(19:27):
I think because everyone's bad in the beginning, we were
all novices together. To be bad when other people expect
you to be good is harder.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I think, Yeah, I'm really like I there's a part
of me that absolutely gets that and absolutely agrees. And
there's other part about it that, as I have come
into my later fifties and sixties, is that I am
way more willing to go and embrace my failures.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Like after an example of something where you've pushed through
to something where you've prepared to look.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Foolish, you know often with you know in teaching that
you know when I would be at the clinic. I
remember this one particular time where I had said something
completely stupid to a client in front of a student,
and uh, it was it was just it was a
(20:21):
phrase that I used that was inappropriate and for the moment,
and that the client looked at me, I looked at
them and I just looked at them and I just went,
oh fuck. And because I was, I was absolutely like
I was offended that I had said it. And the
client looked at me and had said, oh god, I
need it. That's fine, like it's you know, we'll get
(20:43):
through this. And we both kind of giggled and we
moved on, and I could see the client or the
student beside me face was full of judgment that I
had said this thing. But but you know, this happens
all the time in any human reaction or interaction, just
like in you know, in therapy, I say stupid stuff
all the time, and so and we get through it,
(21:06):
like that's part of the process. And so I remember
leaving that therapy session with the student and and you
could I could just see the student didn't even know
what to say to me, because I think that they
wanted to tell me that I had done like how
did you? How could you do that? Kind of and
I went to the to the there was a whole
kind of, you know, gaggle of students there and I went, yeah, God,
(21:29):
you wouldn't believe what I just did. And I kind
of said, this is what I did. And you could
see all the students, both full of judgment, and I
also hope that they were thinking, Oh, if Anita is
willing to embrace the mistakes that she's made, the errors
that she's made, maybe it's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
How do you Where do you sit on for giving
people mistakes? Working in the media, maybe working never working
in Maybe it's just because that's my Maybe it's everywhere,
but you can be and I hate the term counsel culture.
It's so overused and so all of that. But you
will have people having terrible judgments on you. And if
(22:11):
you make a mistake, you have to roll over, as
you say, pretend you're on fire, let the fire roll
over you, and say me a copper, even if you
don't agree with that. But do you think that everyone's
entitled to come back from any mistake? I mean, you
deal with clients who've made done some horrific things.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Absolutely, Where do you.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Allow mistakes in people's lives and a chance to reinvent.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So it took me a long time to figure out
why I do like the forensic work. You know that,
you know, because a lot of people have a great
deal of judgment around a lot of the population that
I work with. And I finally it took me a
long time, but I finally realized that I don't like
(23:03):
I don't want to be judged by the worst thing
that I've ever done. And here's this whole group in
our society that has been judged for often the worst
thing that they may have ever done. And and where
does forgiveness, like, how do we how are we as
a society if we can't forgive.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
If they've done if the one thing they've done, you know,
is ginning a cat alive in front of a classroom,
for example.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Don't do that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's what if it's something big, you go as a society,
we can't allow that.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, And and and again that's where punishment, you know,
that's where our justice system comes in. And then so
what happens is it, you know, let's say that this
person does this horrific thing and they get jail time
or or you know, whatever the the you know, the
thing that the court feels is appropriate, and then what
(24:03):
you know, do they just you know, does that judgment
sit forever or is there a way back?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Now?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I think that there is a bit, And I know
courts are really interested in the idea of remorse, you know,
do you feel bad for what you've done. It's a
strange concept because remorse happens after an action. So it's
kind of hard when we talk about providing treatment because
(24:30):
it happens after right, So if the guy thought it
would be a good idea to skin a cat, then
that's a terrible example. But we're going to use this,
We're going to go with it. Amanda, is that if
he does that and he feels bad about it after,
what does he feel bad about Does he feel bad
because he hurt the cat, because he traumatized a bunch
of children, or does he feel bad because he was caught?
(24:55):
And those are very different things.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
And as a court you can't know what the story is.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Well, that's kind of my job is to try to
figure out what the story is and to recognize that
if we are looking to provide treatment, looking for that
remorse is probably not as important as understanding what went
into the decision. In the first place. For him to
want to do that and to go and try to
change that trajectory, Well.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I've let us down an unusual pass.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
I know, I don't know how we got here, but
it's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
And I don't want people to think I don't like cats.
I'm not a fan of cats the musical necessarily, but
cats themselves, I'm okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we
started with pushing through the cringe and ended up with well,
I think we ended up that, hey, push yourself and
if you make mistakes, you're entitled to have a discussion
(25:47):
around that too.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, And I love What I really am picking up
from this conversation for me is that cringe happens when
you're young and you have that self consciousness about how
are people going to see me? And that doesn't change
you know that, No, it doesn't change you know, cringe
is cringe as cringe, and that maybe we can start
(26:09):
feeling more confident about recognizing that if we can all
go through it, if we recognize it, we're all going
through cringe. If we want to continue to be to grow,
you know, to grow and be good human beings, then
then maybe part of it is kind of recognizing maybe
I shouldn't be judgmental of somebody else's mistakes. Somebody else
is going through that cringey, novice, ugly learning bit, and
(26:35):
you know, kind of recognizing that's the process.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah. I thought that when I was looking at the
show the Piano that I was hosting. The bravery it
takes for someone to step up and say, here's something
private and I'd like to share it with you, the
bravery that takes. And I was so glad the show
had no judgment around it in terms of people saying
that stinks, or holding up scorecards or any of that,
(26:59):
because I was very aware of what we were asking
people to do, and they were all embraced.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
And they were all like, they were all coming with
their own story of their love for the piano, which
I just thought it was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, no one was sent home embarrassed, none of that.
Oh oh, thank you, Anita, thank you. So I feel
like you've given me a therapy session. Do I have
to pay for this?
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Always? Cup of tea? Should we get to our glimmers
launce you go first?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I saw this guy on social media. He goes around
on a skateboard with some wildflower seeds and a little
shaker and he sprinkles them on medium strips, sprinkles them
on footpaths, salads, salads. If you're Megan markle on a
salad and he they go. He goes back and has
(28:01):
a look at how these beautiful medium strips are suddenly
these thriving communities of bees, of pollen, of color. And
as he says, words equals actions. He said, get off
your phone, stop scrolling, and do something. And he does
it with a laugh and with fun. He's skateboarding around
the town and just lighting up wherever he goes. I
(28:23):
thought it was beautiful. Ironically, I saw that on my.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Social there is a bit of irony.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, I wasn't exactly building a garden as I saw
what he was doing. But that's nice.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
But he was also filming himself doing this, yes, and
putting it up on social and putting it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Up so he knows that. But if it inspires someone
to do something, I think good on him. I well
definitely see that goes with the theme of what we're
doing today, I guess, which is to lean into life,
to have skin in the game and actually stop being
apathetic and do something.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yep, Yeah, it'd be easy for me to go and
judge and say, oh, you know what a wanker you know,
look at him on social media saying, you know, go
and lean into it. But you know what, he's got
a great message. Yep, absolutely well done. So I'm going
to go and talk about the you know, social media
as well. I'm my glimmer is that I read this
(29:15):
to you on the weekend, Amanda. I just was so
excited by this message from Susan just and I'm going
to read it in its entirety.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And this was a message from one about teacups, isn't she?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That's right and it's high Amanda and Anita. I have
to admit that I've never become too involved with social
media because it was not available when I was young.
I am seventy nine, she says, But have become an
avid for your So this is my first time engagement.
Your podcast has probably given me a new view of life.
I can relate to every episode of the podcast from
your discussions about the roles we accepted when we got
(29:50):
married back in nineteen sixty eight. Can you believe this
to now that my husband has passed and I have
to learn to live alone and deal with all the
things that he did, like manage her ances. And she
goes on to say, I didn't even know who our
car insurance company was until after I had a small
accident and had some rooge band yelling at me while
I was in tears. And she talks about doing all
(30:10):
the home repairs and stuff, and she says, now through
your podcast, I've learned to laugh and talk about all
those taboos from my earlier life. Still can't with many
of my friends, but I've got my best friend listening,
and we share our thoughts each week. Makes our weekly
conversation so much more interesting. Now we don't talk about
our aches and pains, problems with our children are rail
against the world. Thank you for giving us new perspectives
(30:33):
with your wives and humorous views on everything. We both
learned a new word, mercan for.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Those that are new to the class, Anita, would you like.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
To tell us what Amercan is a mappotassius and American
is a I've a pubic week a pubic wig. Thank you.
That's a good one. Yeah. So for mostly was it
developed for people in the Middle Ages because they would
shave off their hair and then the.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Full teeth the Court of Louis four teeth or something.
Everyone had had crabs and you know, things like that,
so and they'd shave it off, they'd wear it, so
it looked like he had a healthy thatch.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Mm hmm and yeah, and then used again in the
in the recently to go and if you're filming in
Hollywood of the on the something that happened in the seventies, Yes,
nobody has a thatch anymore. That's right, you use American.
So anyway, so it but Susan Juice goes on to
just say, please keep the podcast coming. It says cheers,
(31:30):
and I'm just looking at this now, it says cheers
from Ruth. So whether it was Ruth or Susan who
wrote this, keep those lovely thoughts coming.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Absolutely all right. We will leave it there and we
will see next week.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah,
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