May 14, 2025 • 40 mins
Amanda has brought in a treasure for this week’s episode, the 1950’s book “Woman’s World”: a time capsule of outdated expectations and eyebrow-raising advice that’s both hilarious and horrifying. Buckle in, cause this one’s a wild ride through the “ideal womanhood” of yesteryear.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well. Hello, I'm Amanda Kella.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
And I'm Anita McGregor, and.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Double a Chattery. Welcome, good jole.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Nice mother's Day it I had a lovely Mother's Day.
I got to go for a walk and in the
Blue Mountains and then go cycling with the family, which
was really lovely.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm just going to show you something I put on
my Instagram, Anita, that is the antithesis of what you're
talking about. Mmmm, this is it here. I put up
a post that said, let me save you some time.
If I ever go missing, you don't have to look
at any of the hiking trails. I won't be there. Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
My friend sent me a post about Mother's Day that
basically said, you know, the number of crimes in the
US go way down on Mother's Day?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And is that true?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Apparently it is. But their idea is that you know,
clearly all the mothers are being taken out for brunch
and stuff, so mothers don't have the opportunity to go
and commit all those crimes.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
That's the only explanation.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That can be the only reasonable explanation. As a forensic psychologist,
I can confirm or not. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I hope you all had a lovely Mother's Day. We've
got some very nice comments about how people are progressing,
and one from Korene.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I really liked this one. And so Karine had had
shared before that her family wasn't and I love you
family and that as her mother progressively grew more ill
that they became this I love you, I love you
kind of family. And she just let us know that
(02:10):
her mom had passed and that the last words that
they spoke to each other was goodbye, I love you mom,
oh Kooran that she responded with her I love.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You, oh Korean, thank you for us.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Isn't that lovely? It is lovely, It's gorgeous. Isn't that
the way it should be?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But you know, it's the same time, as we said,
is that from our generation, for our Anglo Saxon families,
we knew we were loved even though we didn't say it. Yeah,
but it's nice when you hear it.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, I do know that. You know there's that trope
about the marriages where the husband says, well, I said
that I love you during our vows and you know,
and tell things change, just yeah that's going to do.
So yeah, I am definitely a say I love you
you know when you I mean we tell each other
that all we do, yes, we do. And speaking of
(03:04):
love that there was there was quite a few comments
from our teacups about how much they love the piano.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Isn't it a great show? A friend of mine and
I'm not talking about my involvement in it. The concept
of the show is so lovely. It's a show where
a piano is in a public place and we've sort
of scouted Australia for amateur pianists to come down and
just tell us about their love of the piano and
what it means to them and what they don't know
(03:34):
because it's not a competition, is it. Harry Knick Junior
and Andrea Lamb, who's Australia's leading classical pianist, are watching
them hiding in a luggage bag or a luggage bag
in a luggage room. I'm not that mean pretty much
in toilets a lot of the time with a little
eye hoole. So is there like a pretty much Hey,
Harry Conic Junior come to Australia and stand in that
cupboard and they pick their favorite from each location, and
(04:00):
I said, it's not the best, it's the one that's
touched them the most or that they've loved the most.
And at the end there's a beautiful concert. So all
of these are available on abciview now, but we're up
to episode two if you watch it just one week
at a time. But it is a lovely show. And
a friend of mine said, it's love, hope and grief
all set to music, which is what it is. It's
(04:21):
a length and breadth of humanity just talking about their
love of music and the stories that they tell. It's beautiful,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I love the stories and I've got to say, as
your friend, I love that you bring you into that
whole piece. It's that you are such a good human
being in that and that the way that you're able
to connect with those stories.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Is just nicely. Because there was a couple of nice
articles in the Herald, and then there was one that
said that I was friendly or something but slightly over effusive,
and that's all I can think of. You know how
when your parents say one negative thing, and that's all
you can think.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Of slightly effusive is yeah, yeah, yeah, death.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I know, I know I'm gonna have to go and
live in a ditch, but at least I can be
on TV at my age and have an opinion. And
the reason I mentioned that is what I'd love to
(05:23):
do today is to look at this book called Woman's World.
I bought it in This is a book from nineteen
sixty and it's pretty much Anita and you need to
read this cover to cover. It's how to be a woman.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I am so excited about this amount of that. You
are going to tell us how to be a woman.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I'd like your opinion on some of this because
some of it you go, oh my god, we've changed
so much in the last fifty years, and other times
you go, actually, that's really sensible advice. But it covers beauty,
a lot of how to stay trim. You have to
be trim ladies, beauty, etiquette, hygiene, working families, sure, relationships,
(06:01):
all of it, sewing. So let's dive in. There's lots
of stuff about how to keep yourself nice, and by
nice they mean trim. They're obsessed with being trim, and
if that doesn't if you're not naturally trim, then you'd
have to stick a corset on until you get trim.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What I find amusing about this is that one of
my first boyfriend's land that he lived with his grandmother,
and every time I went over to his place, I
was about eighteen, I think, and every time I went
over there, his grandmother creepily would go and bring me
into her bedroom because she was what was that word
(06:41):
corsetear is?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
She would fit women's in coursets. Yes, women's. She fit
women's in.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Women's in several of them in the same course at abound.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And was she trying to get your eighteen year old
personage into a courset?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, she would show me all these like contraptions. I
don't have another word for it. There were contraptions, and
she was like, you would have a better figure if
you were in this, and I was like slim and
I didn't have any bust in.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
How we laughed at Madonna with her conical bra. That's
pretty much how it was. Yeah, Well, let me read you.
This is a sub The chapter was called vital support.
This is a direct quote because we're endowed with vital statistics.
The very shape of our bodies makes foundation garments necessary
for every woman medically. They're necessary to support the body
(07:30):
medically because we're all going to collapse and gently control
areas which are perhaps too well endowed with flesh. The
construction of our bodies demands support. As we increase in years,
muscles lose their strength and their work is carried on
by foundation garments. Let's say you can still have your
boobs right up under your chin. Women's proportions tend to
differ in various countries. Typical examples may be seen in
(07:53):
the hips of Australian women, which inclined to greater development
than they're American sisters. I think that's changed in the
last fifty year. Yes, and many Australian women find wearing
a girdle a must to keep under control those telltale inches.
Plump girls, girls with puppy fat or who are naturally plump,
require correct and frequent fitting by qualified course of tears,
(08:15):
irrespective of her age. A plump girl correctly fitted in
a good bra and girdle can develop a lovely figure.
And they had some just illustrations, one of which was
an African woman with a boobs down around a waist
and pretty much a bone in a nose. Oh, that's
how African female bodies are.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Wow. And what I'm thinking of is that this is
an Australian publication. Here are these women who are corseted
to within an inch of their lives. And then isn't
the sixties when the bikinis came out?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, this is what's so interesting about this book. This
seems so much of it seems so old fashioning it.
This was on the cusp of the sexual revolution. This
is on the cusp of all those generational changes, the
very end of this era, and yet this book still
holds on to it some of the social mores mores,
what do we say?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Mare's I think, Mari, We'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yea. I thought this was interesting about weddings, about a
second marriage. A second marriage can bring as much joy
as the first, but the ceremony and celebration should be quieter.
In no circumstances is it correct for a woman being
married a second time where the divorced or widowed to
wear the traditional gown and veil and have a bevy
of bridesmaids. Even a pastoral bridal ensemble is out. One
(09:32):
attendant is permissible, but it's better to have none. All
white is a hard color at the best of times,
and associated with youth. A mature bride stands the risk
of being accused, with some justification of being mutton done
up as a lamb on your wedding day, ou ouch,
if you have the temerity to remarry.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Wow, and I just have this picture as well as
I'll courset it up, and then the wedding night and
everything just kind of bust out, and the guy is
probably going because you know, like it would be like
no sex before America.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well we'll get to that, but yes, you're right, it'd
be like inflating a zodiac. And if they had tried
to get into some adult petting as I think it's
called in here, all they would have felt is construction zones,
that's right, Yeah, lace and yeah that would be crazy
concrete culvits. And you know, we're not allowed to have
(10:27):
our own initials. And sometimes this is still dealt with
when introducing married couples, say mister and missus done it,
says him, may introduce mister missus Woods, mister missus Doune,
may introduce mister missus Wood. The growing habit of introducing
young married people as Mary and Jim doone can be
a trap, as the unfortunates to whom they're being introduced
to left guessing other husband and wife or brother and sister.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Oh I can, I can well imagine how this would.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Backcry and be so embarrassing. Oh yes, of the theys
if you're I like this, But if you're entertaining a
husband and wife were both in the celebrity class, and
the latter uses her maiden name for professional purposes, there
are two introduction lines to follow. One, if they are
present as private citizens, introduce them under the husband's name.
(11:14):
If they're present in their separate professional capacities, introduce them
under their individual names.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So sorry, hold on, So you would be introduced if
you were with Harley in a social.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
If I was at a dinner party, I'd be Missus Oliver,
mister missus Harley Oliver.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yes, not no, sorry, not Amanda and Harley Oliver.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Missus Harley Oliver.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
And if you were in your professional it would be
Amanda Keller. And okay, I got it, Okay, I'm just putting.
I'm just you know, keeping us away for later.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And what about you know you and I go to
dinner a lot with each other. With girls dining out,
a wise woman defers to her male escort if only
we had those as to the choices of the meal,
and she leaves it to an escort to select the wines.
She must let leave it to your escort. You must
(12:08):
in the restaurant. In a restaurant dining and to have
any communication with the waiter. If you want something that's
not on the table, you never ask the way to direct.
Ask your escort. If you will, ask the waiter for it.
If you drop anything in the restaurant at table, napkin
and I for a spoon, never pick it up yourself,
wait for the waiter to do so.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Oh, I mean how? I mean wow? Treating wheat stoffl.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I know, imagine that you'd get your meal urinated in
if you did that today.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
No kidding, poop and the ice cream.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That's right. I can't do it with my corset, Homnita.
I'm not that dexterous. This is the one. I'd like
to know your your feelings on that that. I thought
the title was catchy. The boss is not your honey.
If you're a working girl, be a working girl and
(13:00):
not a siren. Never flirt with your boss. Here's your
bread and butter and not your honey. Don't simper at
the boss when he comes around, don't keep tissing your
hair in office hours, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I often tease my hair in office hours.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I tease my hair. Oh, look at you, your hopeless hair.
But they do delineate in careers. They talk about that
you can have a job, as they say, and then
when it's time to raise a family, you step away
when you get married. But it did say here that
you'll even enjoy reading the parts unemployment. It said, so
you can encourage your husband and children when they go
(13:36):
to look for jobs.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Wow, because by.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Then your career days are over.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, absolutely over. And what they're saying is that you
should not, as a young woman, be seeking to have
a relationship with your boss. But what does it say
about when a boss cracks onto a young woman?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Let me get to that.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And is there is there a section on this?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
There is? It is called let me find it, Old
Boss with Young Ideas, page three seven nine. Let's go
to our compendium. Okay, Old Boss with Young Ideas. Although
by no means an occupational has it. Amorous bosses are
common enough to cause their share of trouble. Their line
generally starts with a series of little compliments that grow
increasingly personal when they come. Accept them with composure. Don't
(14:23):
encourage them, but don't bridle. You will have to take
particular care with your neck lines and hemlines with this
type of boss, or he will never do any work.
If it's your fault, it's your fault. If he approaches,
are just asking for they excuse me, surgeon, and keep going.
If he approaches stage two, the friendly lean on your
(14:46):
shoulder as he talks to you at your desk, disengage
yourself gently but firmly, or you will be subject to
Stage three, the amorous pat as you walk past.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Him, the amorous Passtage three.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Okay, if that happens, tell him quite defiantly that you
do not appreciate such familiarity. Ask him to refrain from
doing it again. If you giggle and blush, you'll only
encourage him. If you're asked to work back and the
excuse is flimsy, plead another engagement, But if you can't
get out of it without jeopardizing your job, ask him
what time you'll finish and get someone to call for you.
(15:20):
When working back, it's unlikely you'll have to face any
physical struggles unless you've given him some encouragement which makes
him think there's no resistance. Few responsible men will risk
their careers for such behavior. Still, it's possible, particularly he's
been drinking, and you will need to turn on all
your charm and tact to put him in his place
without giving a fence. If this doesn't work and you
(15:41):
face a real struggle, hit him hard with the heaviest
object in the office without fear of consequences because you'll
lose your job anyway. But it says here, don't give
a fence. Do what you can to not give a fence.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And yeah, last thing is maybe hit him with an anvault.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Hit him with an anvil which you.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Have in the office. I didn't really actually say that.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, but particularly if he's been drinking. Look can I do?
There's so many great bits here, but you like this one. Femininity.
I know you've never heard the word in Egypt bruiser.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I've often been called.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That though a man may admire the brilliant, aggressive woman
with a mind like a man, he seldom takes them
dancing what a feminine woman realizes that aggression is a
masculine never a female feminine characteristic. She realizes that a
man who's beaten by a woman is made a figure
of fun and will not readily forgive, so she makes
(16:51):
allowances for the male ego. I think that probably still happens.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It does I think we work around the go around. Yeah,
I think that that still sits there, and just having
to kind of play keep the male boss, the husband,
the you know, everybody. It just sounds as though that
just was I mean, it was harder work. I think
(17:20):
it's still hard work. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I think so too. In the number of TV shows
I've been on, on panels and things like that, if
I've had a couple of jokes, I then sit back
to that other people have a go yeah, no man would
ever do that. Or I'll make a joke and I'll
make it a little bit quiet and someone will say
it louder and get a big laugh.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And I've always I've always had.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
To make sure that the guys are looked after because
I don't want to push that button.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And would what would happen if you pushed that button? Well?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
No, O, the other women. But that's the thing, and
no one would. I would feel uncomfortable, which I don't
know why. I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, it's kind of like, are you worried that it'll
be the toll pop and then you'll get cut down?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I don't want to. Well, I've always this is probably
more my thing on those comedy shows. I've never seen
myself as a comedian, and so I don't want to
push forward and show off because I don't feel I
belong there as much as they do.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But you've been asked to be on to demonstrate your
sense of humor, like they're why not Amanda, just be funny? Yeah,
which I would.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Find, but I don't. I don't want to push forward
and be funny and be funny and show off too much.
I'll be funny a little bit if I can. What
a relief if I can be, But then I don't
want to push through too much.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Wow, So it sounds as so like that sounds as
so that would be an incredibly taxing thing to have
to do. Like I like, it's like I would imagine
men just go in and go I'm going to be funny.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
And I'd sit there and watch them talk around and around,
waiting for a funny bit to arrive. I would never
have the balls to do that, and I'm better than
I used to be, but I still have the balls
to do that. Wow. Do you want to know a
need of how to have a successful marriage?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I do, Actually, yeah, because I'm I.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Phone me last night and said, Amanda, how can I
have a successful marriage?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I know I'm still on my starterom marriage.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
She've over played your hands there you think. Have a
sip of tea and here we go.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Mm hm tell me tell me?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Okay, She the woman recognizes his never ending need for
praise and admiration and belief by her in his ability
to provide, no matter how many mean tricks the world
may play on women. Man has a sorrier burden of all. Okay,
tell me about always he has on his mind the
onus of being the provider. How about the anus year
(19:42):
after year to the end of his days, he has
to provide not just for himself, but his wife, family,
and home. However tired you may feel or sick of
the house, you must never forget this fact. You must
play up to your husband when he is discouraged to
refuse to practice this deception because it's not entirely honest,
is unwise and tactless. All he wants is the basic love, companionship,
(20:04):
warmth and fun of a good wife and mother.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
You know we would have at that time in the sixties.
It probably like there was that whole Rosy the riveter
who you know, the women went out to work during
World War.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
T yeares and then we're supposed to forget that again.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And then all the women had, you know, were driven
back into the home so that men would have jobs.
And it was kind of that I get that. The
sense of that drive was you really have to forget
this because it's now back to being the man's world.
It was almost like this this whiplash that happened, and
there was not the time where well a where women
(20:41):
earned more than men, which is that that dynamic isn't
obviously not dealt with.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But they talk about it in this book. In here
they say about a woman going to work once she's married,
I mean, after she's had children, it's all over. But
if she's working when she's married, you have to be
very sensitive to a man who is expected to put
up with you earning almost as much money as he
is Wow. Yeah, you'll never, as they say, a hugely
(21:09):
uncommon that you'd ever earn more than him. But it's
unnatural for you to be doing that, and therefore you
have to once again plicate the ego.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And this was, as we say, the sixties, this is
the beginning of also divorce and women having to raise
their children on their own, not having any choice, men
wandering off and all of this. Well, actually, let's get
to that. Also, a woman never nags. The quickest route
to divorce courts and grounds for divorce in these days
a good grounds for divorce. She nagged me, nagged me.
(21:39):
She often flatters, but never so much that she appears fake.
She never picks up on her husband's weaknesses, unless as
an indulgent joke.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Oh wow, So this book, Amanda is has got to
be like seven hundred pages. Yes, And I wonder how
long the Mound's book would be, Like how to be
a man.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It'll probably be how to go fish, ye, how to
fix a car yep, how to play teach your kids
to play sport, how.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
To be a leader at work, you know, like get
her heard. But it's like there wouldn't be the same
kind of direction about how to be a good hutspan No.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I think the role definition is for women and that's it.
Which is so interesting that this was the very beginning
of that all shifting, and it says here that that's
where are we. It says not to quarrel blah blah blah. Women,
you don't fight with your husbands, et cetera. Women have
to consider men all the time. It says, oh, you
(22:36):
like this bit of needy, you're ready?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Sometimes, in spite of everything, a husband wanders, what does
a wife do? She's wise. She'll wait for it to
blow over, And while she waits, she'll ask herself, what's
lacking in me for him to look at another woman?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Okay, I'll just pick my job after.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
The yea, It says here, maybe nothing's missing. He might
feel like many men do. Then he must prove he
can still have a fling anyway. She should ignore the flutter,
make the home pleasant. Oh, and he'll soon be back.
Because a good wife has all the weapons. She knows
her husband.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
All the weapons, like like, he's like this prize he
gets to go off and have its cake. It is
to come back. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Know it's quite extraordinary. It's that that that whole trope
of you acquiesce to your husband. You flatter his ego.
If he wants to go and root around, excuse me.
It's probably something you're doing because you're not being attractive
or attentive enough.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, go and visit your corsetier.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Visit your corsetier. On this, Look at that. It just
keeps going. This is what to talk about on your
first date.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Okay, I want to know what starter make marriage.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Actually, I think you'd be good at this, Anita. What
to discuss on your first date not me, clearly. All
you have to do is let your escort talk. He'll
ador an admiring audience. If he's shy, he must be
led on to talk. It's fatal for a couple to
talk a head off unless a boy is a great
reader and first mentions the subject. Don't talk about books
(24:18):
unless you want to be called a square. There are
lots of male topics to discuss, including TV, Hi fi, cars,
and sports. But a word of warning on cars, Anita,
before you start writing notes down. They may be his
pet subject, but care must be taken not to let
him think the old bomb that he drives is inferior
to the latest Mercedes Benz.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Oh. You see, like my and my knowledge of things
like sports and cars are limited, so I think I
would really suck it that. I still remember when we
went with I can't remember as you and me and
Horaley and Emmett we went out to some race.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Places where Harley was raising his car I.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Think it was, and we were kind of wandering through
and Harley were showing me all these really all beautiful
race cars, and he showed me this one that he
was particularly enamored with, and I went, well, how many
cup holders does it have? And he just looked at
me and just hung his head. Let you live in
me too. The look on his face was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Priceless, priceless. At least you didn't bring up books like
some crazy square.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Oh I was going to go and talk to him
about my crochet.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well that no, what, don't lead the conversation away.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I'm sorry, Sorry, I keep kidding. I joined it out
to take more notes here.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh my god, I think so, let me just work
out where we've ended here. So we've crossed the first date,
as it were, how to look after yourself marital problems.
Here we are you'll to you Are you ready tell
me about this? Well, the sex impulse. It says here
that women want love, men want sex, and I've got
to come to terms with that marital problems. There's a
(25:58):
section called the working wife. Within that. It's virtually the
custom now that after marriage, the young wife goes back
to work until the arrival of children, or until sufficient
money has been saved for a home or the expensive
household appliances that lead her to the status of a
full time housewife. There are dangers to the marriage when
the wife works more, especially when the wife is young
(26:19):
and perhaps more physically and nervously energetic than the older,
more sedate, middle aged woman. The first pitfall lies in fatigue.
If a wife has to rise early to cook breakfast,
prepare herself to leave home about the same time as
her husband, work reasonably hard all day, it says, reasonably hard,
(26:41):
rush home to prepare the evening meal, then to the
various household chores. She'll obviously become very tired. If she's tired,
she will often be cranky and hard to get on with.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I wonder what solution you could there could possibly be?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Give up work.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Well, that's the man actually pitching in is oh, yeah, sorry,
come on.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
She's just got to give up work because you know what,
also for by the wayside, her love life, which demands
freshness and full attention, will be one casualty. And it
says here, although not very common, another problem that can arise,
as we talked about this earlier, is if the wife's
income is close to our equals, or even exceeds out
(27:26):
of a husband, he would tend to resent any inroads
into the dominant male role of economic responsibility. Oh, authorities
are agreed that incalculable harm can be done to children
whose mother's work full time.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Just close on the heel of mother's day, we find
out that we were total failures.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I see, in one hand, this was only fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
On the other hand, so much has shifted in our
mother's generations. But as you say, women during the war
did all that, and then we assume they just accepted
going back into the box. And maybe they didn't, but
we just assumed they did.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
They were probably taking you know, the little what are
those bex powders and mothers little.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Help dreaming of time to have a good lie dout?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's right, Yeah, I just find that book extraordinary in
thinking about the mixed messages that women were getting, is
that you know you could you always had to be slim,
you always had to be attentive to your husband, You
(28:36):
always like you just had to be everything for everybody. Yes,
but you just completely lost who you were.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
And don't fake it too much because they'll know you
being fake. But when they lost who you were? Did
women ever? Maybe I'm just assuming that it wasn't like
the way we live today where you're encouraged to think
who am I and what do I want? What you
wanted was to get your new refrigerator in, to have
a nice house and do that. So maybe you're expectations
of what you were.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Were exactly that well, and that if you were going
to be a professional woman, that you had the choice
of being a nurse or a teacher. Was that was
pretty well the extent of it.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And said in here there weren't journalism choices. And if
you want to be on TV it said here, you
know there's a lot of churn for young faces. As
it says if you want to be on TV, make
sure that your act is good, meaning that you're singing.
So if you're going to be on TV. In these days,
you are performing as a singer on a tonight show.
You weren't the host or any of those things. You
would just a performer. But when I did my parent
(29:39):
teacher stuff with my mum when I was in year twelve,
sixth form as it was called, then I said I
wanted to be a journalist and they said that's nice,
and then they asked me to leave the room. They
have a chat with your parents and they said, you know,
that's not a career. It's not really a career. And
they also said, which irritated my mother, that women only
have to work long enough and then that someone else
(29:59):
can take care of them. And this was in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well it was. I still remember that there was this
trope about if, certainly in North America, that if you
went to as a woman, if you went to university,
that you were going there for your mrs degree, your missus,
that you were going.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
To become someone's missus.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, that you were going out there to go and
find a husband. You weren't there to get educated, you
were there to go and get a husband. And the
idea would be that depending on when you met the husband,
you know, the degree was kind of you know, whether
you finished it or not was unimportant because you weren't
going to go on in a career.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Remember we had this conversation last year when one of
the top four I remember his name, one of the
top American football players at the graduation ceremony said this
is the beginning of all that homesteading stuff. Hey, women,
your greatest role is to be a wife and a mother.
And it said this to a whole room of graduating women.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
It's you know, so there was you know, I said,
there was Rosie the Riveter and the you know in
the Second World or whenever, you know, and women came
were allowed out of the box, then pushed back in
and now and then women came out again, and then
now there's this move to put them back into a box.
I think it's just it's like, I think the box
(31:18):
is well and truly over, like I can.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But this time I wonder if it's the women the stuff.
And we've spoken about it's too on this podcast. All
those TikTokers and influencers are choosing to go back into
the box themselves, and maybe that's we all know the
world's hard. We all know that there are days you
don't feel like going to work, that you feel like
being looked after. Not everyone can afford to be that.
(31:42):
All these women who were doing that are with husbands
who are wealthy enough to let them sit at home
in the little house in the prairie, dresses and make
some cheese.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And I guess if it is a choice, if you
want to get back into that box, I suppose that's
a choice, although it's to me it feels like a
short cited thing because if your husband apparently the stray
Amanda I saw, I've heard from this to fourteen fourteen,
Then what do you do? Then you've got you know,
(32:12):
I'm put on your resume. I can make cheese, you know,
like I can dress.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Like I'm Laura Ingle little House in the Prairie.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, I've got a great work wardoe by telling you yes.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
But also, when we look at women's reproductive rights in
North America, for example, we can never assume that as
we advance everything gets better and easy for women, we
get more choice. Never assume that those tenets are set
in stone O. V. Wade, et cetera. We can be
pushed back at any time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
It's it is kind of terrifying. It's you know, the
whole you know, book banning. It was just listening to
this podcast that was talking about The Handmaid's Tale and
how books are being bound, and that's actually one of
the most common books, the most frequent book that is
being banned around the world. And what I thought was brilliant, Amanda,
(33:03):
is that in response, one of the I think it
was a book publisher made a flame proof of The
Handmaid's Tail and then got Margaret Outwood to come at
it with a flamethrower and.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Was to show it couldn't be burnt, could not What
a powerful image.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I love that?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, Well, if we all do end up back in
the box and back in the nineteen sixties ago, I've
got just the book to help get you through.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Thank you your wild.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Anita. Should we ask a man to come in here
to give you permission to do a glimmer? Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Please, that would be very appropriate, I think, so let
me quietly tell you my glimmer. So recently we had
the opening day for the Icebergs, which is an amazing,
glorious thing that some friends and I do every year.
(34:22):
Tell us so the Icebergs is down at Bondai Beach
and there is this iconic pool that is there and
the icebergs have been around for over one hundred years now.
And every year in the winter there's a winter swimming
group that meet and it's just basically a forty or
(34:45):
fifty meter run, you know, get to the other end
kind of of swim that you do every week in
the winter. You have to get seventy five swims and
five years to become an iceberg member. I hilariously, I
got seventy five swims in and have hardly swamp since that.
But every year on the beginning, on the opening day,
(35:09):
they bring in big blocks of ice every and they
you know, crunch it up and everybody grabs a big
chunk of ice and we all go and jump in
as the as the starting and it's it's it is
so lovely. And I've got to say that in the
winter when it is one of those sublime sunny days
(35:30):
and you're watching the waves come in on Bondai Beach
and you get to go and get you know, jump
into the water and get one of those ice cream
headaches as you make it across the pool. It is
it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
It is a long You have an unfair advantage because
you don't notice it's cold because you're Canadian.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
That's the that's the only reason I started. Because I
am a terrible swimmer. I've I am not a very
you know, I look like a wounded seal when I swim,
But I can get to the other side. And it's
it's not a race about who's fastest. It's a race
about being consistent with your time. So when you like
(36:11):
when I I'm usually what they call go girl, which
means that it's the first one off the rank. So
you're the slowest one to get across the other side,
and people are going seconds after you, and you all
are to you know. The idea is that you all
get to the finish line around the same time.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And if you people swim in the same lane as you.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Well, well no, they're in the in other lanes, but
they're taking off after you. And so everybody gets to
the finish at the at the at the end of it,
and if you finish swim faster, then you actually don't win.
So at this race on Sunday that I actually won
(36:52):
the race because the two people who beat me blew
their time. The time that they said it is my head.
I know, it's very the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It is the most collegial, lovely thing because you're just
swimming to your time and.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
They don't improve you.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Well, if you actually improve your time, you you can
blow your time twice I think, and then they actually
put you as in the faster timing. So but it's
it's hilarious how how it's it is this collegial. It's
not about trying to go and beat the other guys,
trying to kind of stay consistent to your time. It's
(37:30):
kind of weird. Anyway, I love it. I just love.
I was there with my friends Elizabeth and Emma, who
I swim with on these Sunday mornings, and it's it's glorious.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
You won't tempted to jump in with a big Gin
and Tonic and just put the ice in.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Oh that's it. I never thought about you never.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Think properly with these I think clearly, okay, okay, what
is okay, we'll move on from what is yours abount.
You know how we like to go for walks on
Sunday Sunday, Well, I finally found what our walks are
called Okay, there's a whole movement called the fart walk,
and usually people do it after dinner, but you and
(38:10):
I have managed to do this in the mornings as well.
So it's a Canadian woman who developed the fart walk,
and meaning that even if it's just for twenty minutes,
ten minutes after dinner, to go out, stretch your legs
and fat, yeah, do a bit of a fart to
just get all your gases and your digestion moving around.
(38:32):
And so her suggestion is of an evening go for
a fart walk. So if you see your neighbors, your
friends heading out, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Exactly what they're I know exactly what they're doing. And Amanda,
I think that we have really, you know, gone to
the to the nth degree in our ability to complete
it for it walk, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Think so too. Well done us, Well done us. And
initially we brought the dog to cover up any of
the sounds.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, we should.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Just own it.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Now I think we think we should just own it.
We'll get t shirts made.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
We're going to be like those old people that don't
know when they're letting off how freeing?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Oh, I like I like that it is kind of
just this. I am going to own this.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
And what's hilarious is there's no nothing in this book
about how to cover up a fart because women in
the sixties never passed wind.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Clearly did not.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
A lot of them exploded, No wonder they needed that.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Well, there was nothing to go on.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Oh the courses wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
The end of the they'd have to go and take
off their coursets in the in the closets.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
In the closet, and then go into the backyard to
pass a bit of wind. I think so well on
that delightful that I've enjoyed this very much.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I love him, my friend, love you to buy
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well. Hello, I'm Amanda Kella.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
And I'm Anita McGregor, and.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Double a Chattery. Welcome, good jole.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Nice mother's Day it I had a lovely Mother's Day.
I got to go for a walk and in the
Blue Mountains and then go cycling with the family, which
was really lovely.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm just going to show you something I put on
my Instagram, Anita, that is the antithesis of what you're
talking about. Mmmm, this is it here. I put up
a post that said, let me save you some time.
If I ever go missing, you don't have to look
at any of the hiking trails. I won't be there. Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
My friend sent me a post about Mother's Day that
basically said, you know, the number of crimes in the
US go way down on Mother's Day?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And is that true?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Apparently it is. But their idea is that you know,
clearly all the mothers are being taken out for brunch
and stuff, so mothers don't have the opportunity to go
and commit all those crimes.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
That's the only explanation.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That can be the only reasonable explanation. As a forensic psychologist,
I can confirm or not. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I hope you all had a lovely Mother's Day. We've
got some very nice comments about how people are progressing,
and one from Korene.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I really liked this one. And so Karine had had
shared before that her family wasn't and I love you
family and that as her mother progressively grew more ill
that they became this I love you, I love you
kind of family. And she just let us know that
(02:10):
her mom had passed and that the last words that
they spoke to each other was goodbye, I love you mom,
oh Kooran that she responded with her I love.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You, oh Korean, thank you for us.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Isn't that lovely? It is lovely, It's gorgeous. Isn't that
the way it should be?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But you know, it's the same time, as we said,
is that from our generation, for our Anglo Saxon families,
we knew we were loved even though we didn't say it. Yeah,
but it's nice when you hear it.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, I do know that. You know there's that trope
about the marriages where the husband says, well, I said
that I love you during our vows and you know,
and tell things change, just yeah that's going to do.
So yeah, I am definitely a say I love you
you know when you I mean we tell each other
that all we do, yes, we do. And speaking of
(03:04):
love that there was there was quite a few comments
from our teacups about how much they love the piano.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Isn't it a great show? A friend of mine and
I'm not talking about my involvement in it. The concept
of the show is so lovely. It's a show where
a piano is in a public place and we've sort
of scouted Australia for amateur pianists to come down and
just tell us about their love of the piano and
what it means to them and what they don't know
(03:34):
because it's not a competition, is it. Harry Knick Junior
and Andrea Lamb, who's Australia's leading classical pianist, are watching
them hiding in a luggage bag or a luggage bag
in a luggage room. I'm not that mean pretty much
in toilets a lot of the time with a little
eye hoole. So is there like a pretty much Hey,
Harry Conic Junior come to Australia and stand in that
cupboard and they pick their favorite from each location, and
(04:00):
I said, it's not the best, it's the one that's
touched them the most or that they've loved the most.
And at the end there's a beautiful concert. So all
of these are available on abciview now, but we're up
to episode two if you watch it just one week
at a time. But it is a lovely show. And
a friend of mine said, it's love, hope and grief
all set to music, which is what it is. It's
(04:21):
a length and breadth of humanity just talking about their
love of music and the stories that they tell. It's beautiful,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I love the stories and I've got to say, as
your friend, I love that you bring you into that
whole piece. It's that you are such a good human
being in that and that the way that you're able
to connect with those stories.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Is just nicely. Because there was a couple of nice
articles in the Herald, and then there was one that
said that I was friendly or something but slightly over effusive,
and that's all I can think of. You know how
when your parents say one negative thing, and that's all
you can think.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Of slightly effusive is yeah, yeah, yeah, death.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I know, I know I'm gonna have to go and
live in a ditch, but at least I can be
on TV at my age and have an opinion. And
the reason I mentioned that is what I'd love to
(05:23):
do today is to look at this book called Woman's World.
I bought it in This is a book from nineteen
sixty and it's pretty much Anita and you need to
read this cover to cover. It's how to be a woman.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I am so excited about this amount of that. You
are going to tell us how to be a woman.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I'd like your opinion on some of this because
some of it you go, oh my god, we've changed
so much in the last fifty years, and other times
you go, actually, that's really sensible advice. But it covers beauty,
a lot of how to stay trim. You have to
be trim ladies, beauty, etiquette, hygiene, working families, sure, relationships,
(06:01):
all of it, sewing. So let's dive in. There's lots
of stuff about how to keep yourself nice, and by
nice they mean trim. They're obsessed with being trim, and
if that doesn't if you're not naturally trim, then you'd
have to stick a corset on until you get trim.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
What I find amusing about this is that one of
my first boyfriend's land that he lived with his grandmother,
and every time I went over to his place, I
was about eighteen, I think, and every time I went
over there, his grandmother creepily would go and bring me
into her bedroom because she was what was that word
(06:41):
corsetear is?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
She would fit women's in coursets. Yes, women's. She fit
women's in.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Women's in several of them in the same course at abound.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And was she trying to get your eighteen year old
personage into a courset?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, she would show me all these like contraptions. I
don't have another word for it. There were contraptions, and
she was like, you would have a better figure if
you were in this, and I was like slim and
I didn't have any bust in.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
How we laughed at Madonna with her conical bra. That's
pretty much how it was. Yeah, Well, let me read you.
This is a sub The chapter was called vital support.
This is a direct quote because we're endowed with vital statistics.
The very shape of our bodies makes foundation garments necessary
for every woman medically. They're necessary to support the body
(07:30):
medically because we're all going to collapse and gently control
areas which are perhaps too well endowed with flesh. The
construction of our bodies demands support. As we increase in years,
muscles lose their strength and their work is carried on
by foundation garments. Let's say you can still have your
boobs right up under your chin. Women's proportions tend to
differ in various countries. Typical examples may be seen in
(07:53):
the hips of Australian women, which inclined to greater development
than they're American sisters. I think that's changed in the
last fifty year. Yes, and many Australian women find wearing
a girdle a must to keep under control those telltale inches.
Plump girls, girls with puppy fat or who are naturally plump,
require correct and frequent fitting by qualified course of tears,
(08:15):
irrespective of her age. A plump girl correctly fitted in
a good bra and girdle can develop a lovely figure.
And they had some just illustrations, one of which was
an African woman with a boobs down around a waist
and pretty much a bone in a nose. Oh, that's
how African female bodies are.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Wow. And what I'm thinking of is that this is
an Australian publication. Here are these women who are corseted
to within an inch of their lives. And then isn't
the sixties when the bikinis came out?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, this is what's so interesting about this book. This
seems so much of it seems so old fashioning it.
This was on the cusp of the sexual revolution. This
is on the cusp of all those generational changes, the
very end of this era, and yet this book still
holds on to it some of the social mores mores,
what do we say?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Mare's I think, Mari, We'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yea. I thought this was interesting about weddings, about a
second marriage. A second marriage can bring as much joy
as the first, but the ceremony and celebration should be quieter.
In no circumstances is it correct for a woman being
married a second time where the divorced or widowed to
wear the traditional gown and veil and have a bevy
of bridesmaids. Even a pastoral bridal ensemble is out. One
(09:32):
attendant is permissible, but it's better to have none. All
white is a hard color at the best of times,
and associated with youth. A mature bride stands the risk
of being accused, with some justification of being mutton done
up as a lamb on your wedding day, ou ouch,
if you have the temerity to remarry.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Wow, and I just have this picture as well as
I'll courset it up, and then the wedding night and
everything just kind of bust out, and the guy is
probably going because you know, like it would be like
no sex before America.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well we'll get to that, but yes, you're right, it'd
be like inflating a zodiac. And if they had tried
to get into some adult petting as I think it's
called in here, all they would have felt is construction zones,
that's right, Yeah, lace and yeah that would be crazy
concrete culvits. And you know, we're not allowed to have
(10:27):
our own initials. And sometimes this is still dealt with
when introducing married couples, say mister and missus done it,
says him, may introduce mister missus Woods, mister missus Doune,
may introduce mister missus Wood. The growing habit of introducing
young married people as Mary and Jim doone can be
a trap, as the unfortunates to whom they're being introduced
to left guessing other husband and wife or brother and sister.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Oh I can, I can well imagine how this would.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Backcry and be so embarrassing. Oh yes, of the theys
if you're I like this, But if you're entertaining a
husband and wife were both in the celebrity class, and
the latter uses her maiden name for professional purposes, there
are two introduction lines to follow. One, if they are
present as private citizens, introduce them under the husband's name.
(11:14):
If they're present in their separate professional capacities, introduce them
under their individual names.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
So sorry, hold on, So you would be introduced if
you were with Harley in a social.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
If I was at a dinner party, I'd be Missus Oliver,
mister missus Harley Oliver.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yes, not no, sorry, not Amanda and Harley Oliver.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Missus Harley Oliver.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
And if you were in your professional it would be
Amanda Keller. And okay, I got it, Okay, I'm just putting.
I'm just you know, keeping us away for later.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And what about you know you and I go to
dinner a lot with each other. With girls dining out,
a wise woman defers to her male escort if only
we had those as to the choices of the meal,
and she leaves it to an escort to select the wines.
She must let leave it to your escort. You must
(12:08):
in the restaurant. In a restaurant dining and to have
any communication with the waiter. If you want something that's
not on the table, you never ask the way to direct.
Ask your escort. If you will, ask the waiter for it.
If you drop anything in the restaurant at table, napkin
and I for a spoon, never pick it up yourself,
wait for the waiter to do so.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Oh, I mean how? I mean wow? Treating wheat stoffl.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I know, imagine that you'd get your meal urinated in
if you did that today.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
No kidding, poop and the ice cream.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That's right. I can't do it with my corset, Homnita.
I'm not that dexterous. This is the one. I'd like
to know your your feelings on that that. I thought
the title was catchy. The boss is not your honey.
If you're a working girl, be a working girl and
(13:00):
not a siren. Never flirt with your boss. Here's your
bread and butter and not your honey. Don't simper at
the boss when he comes around, don't keep tissing your
hair in office hours, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I often tease my hair in office hours.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I tease my hair. Oh, look at you, your hopeless hair.
But they do delineate in careers. They talk about that
you can have a job, as they say, and then
when it's time to raise a family, you step away
when you get married. But it did say here that
you'll even enjoy reading the parts unemployment. It said, so
you can encourage your husband and children when they go
(13:36):
to look for jobs.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Wow, because by.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Then your career days are over.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, absolutely over. And what they're saying is that you
should not, as a young woman, be seeking to have
a relationship with your boss. But what does it say
about when a boss cracks onto a young woman?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Let me get to that.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And is there is there a section on this?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
There is? It is called let me find it, Old
Boss with Young Ideas, page three seven nine. Let's go
to our compendium. Okay, Old Boss with Young Ideas. Although
by no means an occupational has it. Amorous bosses are
common enough to cause their share of trouble. Their line
generally starts with a series of little compliments that grow
increasingly personal when they come. Accept them with composure. Don't
(14:23):
encourage them, but don't bridle. You will have to take
particular care with your neck lines and hemlines with this
type of boss, or he will never do any work.
If it's your fault, it's your fault. If he approaches,
are just asking for they excuse me, surgeon, and keep going.
If he approaches stage two, the friendly lean on your
(14:46):
shoulder as he talks to you at your desk, disengage
yourself gently but firmly, or you will be subject to
Stage three, the amorous pat as you walk past.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Him, the amorous Passtage three.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Okay, if that happens, tell him quite defiantly that you
do not appreciate such familiarity. Ask him to refrain from
doing it again. If you giggle and blush, you'll only
encourage him. If you're asked to work back and the
excuse is flimsy, plead another engagement, But if you can't
get out of it without jeopardizing your job, ask him
what time you'll finish and get someone to call for you.
(15:20):
When working back, it's unlikely you'll have to face any
physical struggles unless you've given him some encouragement which makes
him think there's no resistance. Few responsible men will risk
their careers for such behavior. Still, it's possible, particularly he's
been drinking, and you will need to turn on all
your charm and tact to put him in his place
without giving a fence. If this doesn't work and you
(15:41):
face a real struggle, hit him hard with the heaviest
object in the office without fear of consequences because you'll
lose your job anyway. But it says here, don't give
a fence. Do what you can to not give a fence.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And yeah, last thing is maybe hit him with an anvault.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Hit him with an anvil which you.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Have in the office. I didn't really actually say that.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, but particularly if he's been drinking. Look can I do?
There's so many great bits here, but you like this one. Femininity.
I know you've never heard the word in Egypt bruiser.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I've often been called.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That though a man may admire the brilliant, aggressive woman
with a mind like a man, he seldom takes them
dancing what a feminine woman realizes that aggression is a
masculine never a female feminine characteristic. She realizes that a
man who's beaten by a woman is made a figure
of fun and will not readily forgive, so she makes
(16:51):
allowances for the male ego. I think that probably still happens.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It does I think we work around the go around. Yeah,
I think that that still sits there, and just having
to kind of play keep the male boss, the husband,
the you know, everybody. It just sounds as though that
just was I mean, it was harder work. I think
(17:20):
it's still hard work. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I think so too. In the number of TV shows
I've been on, on panels and things like that, if
I've had a couple of jokes, I then sit back
to that other people have a go yeah, no man would
ever do that. Or I'll make a joke and I'll
make it a little bit quiet and someone will say
it louder and get a big laugh.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And I've always I've always had.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
To make sure that the guys are looked after because
I don't want to push that button.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And would what would happen if you pushed that button? Well?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
No, O, the other women. But that's the thing, and
no one would. I would feel uncomfortable, which I don't
know why. I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, it's kind of like, are you worried that it'll
be the toll pop and then you'll get cut down?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I don't want to. Well, I've always this is probably
more my thing on those comedy shows. I've never seen
myself as a comedian, and so I don't want to
push forward and show off because I don't feel I
belong there as much as they do.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But you've been asked to be on to demonstrate your
sense of humor, like they're why not Amanda, just be funny? Yeah,
which I would.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Find, but I don't. I don't want to push forward
and be funny and be funny and show off too much.
I'll be funny a little bit if I can. What
a relief if I can be, But then I don't
want to push through too much.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Wow, So it sounds as so like that sounds as
so that would be an incredibly taxing thing to have
to do. Like I like, it's like I would imagine
men just go in and go I'm going to be funny.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
And I'd sit there and watch them talk around and around,
waiting for a funny bit to arrive. I would never
have the balls to do that, and I'm better than
I used to be, but I still have the balls
to do that. Wow. Do you want to know a
need of how to have a successful marriage?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I do, Actually, yeah, because I'm I.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Phone me last night and said, Amanda, how can I
have a successful marriage?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I know I'm still on my starterom marriage.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
She've over played your hands there you think. Have a
sip of tea and here we go.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Mm hm tell me tell me?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Okay, She the woman recognizes his never ending need for
praise and admiration and belief by her in his ability
to provide, no matter how many mean tricks the world
may play on women. Man has a sorrier burden of all. Okay,
tell me about always he has on his mind the
onus of being the provider. How about the anus year
(19:42):
after year to the end of his days, he has
to provide not just for himself, but his wife, family,
and home. However tired you may feel or sick of
the house, you must never forget this fact. You must
play up to your husband when he is discouraged to
refuse to practice this deception because it's not entirely honest,
is unwise and tactless. All he wants is the basic love, companionship,
(20:04):
warmth and fun of a good wife and mother.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
You know we would have at that time in the sixties.
It probably like there was that whole Rosy the riveter
who you know, the women went out to work during
World War.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
T yeares and then we're supposed to forget that again.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And then all the women had, you know, were driven
back into the home so that men would have jobs.
And it was kind of that I get that. The
sense of that drive was you really have to forget
this because it's now back to being the man's world.
It was almost like this this whiplash that happened, and
there was not the time where well a where women
(20:41):
earned more than men, which is that that dynamic isn't
obviously not dealt with.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But they talk about it in this book. In here
they say about a woman going to work once she's married,
I mean, after she's had children, it's all over. But
if she's working when she's married, you have to be
very sensitive to a man who is expected to put
up with you earning almost as much money as he
is Wow. Yeah, you'll never, as they say, a hugely
(21:09):
uncommon that you'd ever earn more than him. But it's
unnatural for you to be doing that, and therefore you
have to once again plicate the ego.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And this was, as we say, the sixties, this is
the beginning of also divorce and women having to raise
their children on their own, not having any choice, men
wandering off and all of this. Well, actually, let's get
to that. Also, a woman never nags. The quickest route
to divorce courts and grounds for divorce in these days
a good grounds for divorce. She nagged me, nagged me.
(21:39):
She often flatters, but never so much that she appears fake.
She never picks up on her husband's weaknesses, unless as
an indulgent joke.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Oh wow, So this book, Amanda is has got to
be like seven hundred pages. Yes, And I wonder how
long the Mound's book would be, Like how to be
a man.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It'll probably be how to go fish, ye, how to
fix a car yep, how to play teach your kids
to play sport, how.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
To be a leader at work, you know, like get
her heard. But it's like there wouldn't be the same
kind of direction about how to be a good hutspan No.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I think the role definition is for women and that's it.
Which is so interesting that this was the very beginning
of that all shifting, and it says here that that's
where are we. It says not to quarrel blah blah blah. Women,
you don't fight with your husbands, et cetera. Women have
to consider men all the time. It says, oh, you
(22:36):
like this bit of needy, you're ready?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Sometimes, in spite of everything, a husband wanders, what does
a wife do? She's wise. She'll wait for it to
blow over, And while she waits, she'll ask herself, what's
lacking in me for him to look at another woman?
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Okay, I'll just pick my job after.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
The yea, It says here, maybe nothing's missing. He might
feel like many men do. Then he must prove he
can still have a fling anyway. She should ignore the flutter,
make the home pleasant. Oh, and he'll soon be back.
Because a good wife has all the weapons. She knows
her husband.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
All the weapons, like like, he's like this prize he
gets to go off and have its cake. It is
to come back. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Know it's quite extraordinary. It's that that that whole trope
of you acquiesce to your husband. You flatter his ego.
If he wants to go and root around, excuse me.
It's probably something you're doing because you're not being attractive
or attentive enough.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, go and visit your corsetier.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Visit your corsetier. On this, Look at that. It just
keeps going. This is what to talk about on your
first date.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Okay, I want to know what starter make marriage.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Actually, I think you'd be good at this, Anita. What
to discuss on your first date not me, clearly. All
you have to do is let your escort talk. He'll
ador an admiring audience. If he's shy, he must be
led on to talk. It's fatal for a couple to
talk a head off unless a boy is a great
reader and first mentions the subject. Don't talk about books
(24:18):
unless you want to be called a square. There are
lots of male topics to discuss, including TV, Hi fi, cars,
and sports. But a word of warning on cars, Anita,
before you start writing notes down. They may be his
pet subject, but care must be taken not to let
him think the old bomb that he drives is inferior
to the latest Mercedes Benz.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Oh. You see, like my and my knowledge of things
like sports and cars are limited, so I think I
would really suck it that. I still remember when we
went with I can't remember as you and me and
Horaley and Emmett we went out to some race.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Places where Harley was raising his car I.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Think it was, and we were kind of wandering through
and Harley were showing me all these really all beautiful
race cars, and he showed me this one that he
was particularly enamored with, and I went, well, how many
cup holders does it have? And he just looked at
me and just hung his head. Let you live in
me too. The look on his face was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Priceless, priceless. At least you didn't bring up books like
some crazy square.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Oh I was going to go and talk to him
about my crochet.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well that no, what, don't lead the conversation away.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I'm sorry, Sorry, I keep kidding. I joined it out
to take more notes here.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh my god, I think so, let me just work
out where we've ended here. So we've crossed the first date,
as it were, how to look after yourself marital problems.
Here we are you'll to you Are you ready tell
me about this? Well, the sex impulse. It says here
that women want love, men want sex, and I've got
to come to terms with that marital problems. There's a
(25:58):
section called the working wife. Within that. It's virtually the
custom now that after marriage, the young wife goes back
to work until the arrival of children, or until sufficient
money has been saved for a home or the expensive
household appliances that lead her to the status of a
full time housewife. There are dangers to the marriage when
the wife works more, especially when the wife is young
(26:19):
and perhaps more physically and nervously energetic than the older,
more sedate, middle aged woman. The first pitfall lies in fatigue.
If a wife has to rise early to cook breakfast,
prepare herself to leave home about the same time as
her husband, work reasonably hard all day, it says, reasonably hard,
(26:41):
rush home to prepare the evening meal, then to the
various household chores. She'll obviously become very tired. If she's tired,
she will often be cranky and hard to get on with.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I wonder what solution you could there could possibly be?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Give up work.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Well, that's the man actually pitching in is oh, yeah, sorry,
come on.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
She's just got to give up work because you know what,
also for by the wayside, her love life, which demands
freshness and full attention, will be one casualty. And it
says here, although not very common, another problem that can arise,
as we talked about this earlier, is if the wife's
income is close to our equals, or even exceeds out
(27:26):
of a husband, he would tend to resent any inroads
into the dominant male role of economic responsibility. Oh, authorities
are agreed that incalculable harm can be done to children
whose mother's work full time.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Just close on the heel of mother's day, we find
out that we were total failures.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I see, in one hand, this was only fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
On the other hand, so much has shifted in our
mother's generations. But as you say, women during the war
did all that, and then we assume they just accepted
going back into the box. And maybe they didn't, but
we just assumed they did.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
They were probably taking you know, the little what are
those bex powders and mothers little.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Help dreaming of time to have a good lie dout?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's right, Yeah, I just find that book extraordinary in
thinking about the mixed messages that women were getting, is
that you know you could you always had to be slim,
you always had to be attentive to your husband, You
(28:36):
always like you just had to be everything for everybody. Yes,
but you just completely lost who you were.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
And don't fake it too much because they'll know you
being fake. But when they lost who you were? Did
women ever? Maybe I'm just assuming that it wasn't like
the way we live today where you're encouraged to think
who am I and what do I want? What you
wanted was to get your new refrigerator in, to have
a nice house and do that. So maybe you're expectations
of what you were.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Were exactly that well, and that if you were going
to be a professional woman, that you had the choice
of being a nurse or a teacher. Was that was
pretty well the extent of it.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And said in here there weren't journalism choices. And if
you want to be on TV it said here, you
know there's a lot of churn for young faces. As
it says if you want to be on TV, make
sure that your act is good, meaning that you're singing.
So if you're going to be on TV. In these days,
you are performing as a singer on a tonight show.
You weren't the host or any of those things. You
would just a performer. But when I did my parent
(29:39):
teacher stuff with my mum when I was in year twelve,
sixth form as it was called, then I said I
wanted to be a journalist and they said that's nice,
and then they asked me to leave the room. They
have a chat with your parents and they said, you know,
that's not a career. It's not really a career. And
they also said, which irritated my mother, that women only
have to work long enough and then that someone else
(29:59):
can take care of them. And this was in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well it was. I still remember that there was this
trope about if, certainly in North America, that if you
went to as a woman, if you went to university,
that you were going there for your mrs degree, your missus,
that you were going.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
To become someone's missus.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, that you were going out there to go and
find a husband. You weren't there to get educated, you
were there to go and get a husband. And the
idea would be that depending on when you met the husband,
you know, the degree was kind of you know, whether
you finished it or not was unimportant because you weren't
going to go on in a career.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Remember we had this conversation last year when one of
the top four I remember his name, one of the
top American football players at the graduation ceremony said this
is the beginning of all that homesteading stuff. Hey, women,
your greatest role is to be a wife and a mother.
And it said this to a whole room of graduating women.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
It's you know, so there was you know, I said,
there was Rosie the Riveter and the you know in
the Second World or whenever, you know, and women came
were allowed out of the box, then pushed back in
and now and then women came out again, and then
now there's this move to put them back into a box.
I think it's just it's like, I think the box
(31:18):
is well and truly over, like I can.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But this time I wonder if it's the women the stuff.
And we've spoken about it's too on this podcast. All
those TikTokers and influencers are choosing to go back into
the box themselves, and maybe that's we all know the
world's hard. We all know that there are days you
don't feel like going to work, that you feel like
being looked after. Not everyone can afford to be that.
(31:42):
All these women who were doing that are with husbands
who are wealthy enough to let them sit at home
in the little house in the prairie, dresses and make
some cheese.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And I guess if it is a choice, if you
want to get back into that box, I suppose that's
a choice, although it's to me it feels like a
short cited thing because if your husband apparently the stray
Amanda I saw, I've heard from this to fourteen fourteen,
Then what do you do? Then you've got you know,
(32:12):
I'm put on your resume. I can make cheese, you know,
like I can dress.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Like I'm Laura Ingle little House in the Prairie.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, I've got a great work wardoe by telling you yes.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
But also, when we look at women's reproductive rights in
North America, for example, we can never assume that as
we advance everything gets better and easy for women, we
get more choice. Never assume that those tenets are set
in stone O. V. Wade, et cetera. We can be
pushed back at any time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
It's it is kind of terrifying. It's you know, the
whole you know, book banning. It was just listening to
this podcast that was talking about The Handmaid's Tale and
how books are being bound, and that's actually one of
the most common books, the most frequent book that is
being banned around the world. And what I thought was brilliant, Amanda,
(33:03):
is that in response, one of the I think it
was a book publisher made a flame proof of The
Handmaid's Tail and then got Margaret Outwood to come at
it with a flamethrower and.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Was to show it couldn't be burnt, could not What
a powerful image.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I love that?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, Well, if we all do end up back in
the box and back in the nineteen sixties ago, I've
got just the book to help get you through.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Thank you your wild.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Anita. Should we ask a man to come in here
to give you permission to do a glimmer? Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Please, that would be very appropriate, I think, so let
me quietly tell you my glimmer. So recently we had
the opening day for the Icebergs, which is an amazing,
glorious thing that some friends and I do every year.
(34:22):
Tell us so the Icebergs is down at Bondai Beach
and there is this iconic pool that is there and
the icebergs have been around for over one hundred years now.
And every year in the winter there's a winter swimming
group that meet and it's just basically a forty or
(34:45):
fifty meter run, you know, get to the other end
kind of of swim that you do every week in
the winter. You have to get seventy five swims and
five years to become an iceberg member. I hilariously, I
got seventy five swims in and have hardly swamp since that.
But every year on the beginning, on the opening day,
(35:09):
they bring in big blocks of ice every and they
you know, crunch it up and everybody grabs a big
chunk of ice and we all go and jump in
as the as the starting and it's it's it is
so lovely. And I've got to say that in the
winter when it is one of those sublime sunny days
(35:30):
and you're watching the waves come in on Bondai Beach
and you get to go and get you know, jump
into the water and get one of those ice cream
headaches as you make it across the pool. It is
it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
It is a long You have an unfair advantage because
you don't notice it's cold because you're Canadian.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
That's the that's the only reason I started. Because I
am a terrible swimmer. I've I am not a very
you know, I look like a wounded seal when I swim,
But I can get to the other side. And it's
it's not a race about who's fastest. It's a race
about being consistent with your time. So when you like
(36:11):
when I I'm usually what they call go girl, which
means that it's the first one off the rank. So
you're the slowest one to get across the other side,
and people are going seconds after you, and you all
are to you know. The idea is that you all
get to the finish line around the same time.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
And if you people swim in the same lane as you.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Well, well no, they're in the in other lanes, but
they're taking off after you. And so everybody gets to
the finish at the at the at the end of it,
and if you finish swim faster, then you actually don't win.
So at this race on Sunday that I actually won
(36:52):
the race because the two people who beat me blew
their time. The time that they said it is my head.
I know, it's very the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It is the most collegial, lovely thing because you're just
swimming to your time and.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
They don't improve you.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Well, if you actually improve your time, you you can
blow your time twice I think, and then they actually
put you as in the faster timing. So but it's
it's hilarious how how it's it is this collegial. It's
not about trying to go and beat the other guys,
trying to kind of stay consistent to your time. It's
(37:30):
kind of weird. Anyway, I love it. I just love.
I was there with my friends Elizabeth and Emma, who
I swim with on these Sunday mornings, and it's it's glorious.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
You won't tempted to jump in with a big Gin
and Tonic and just put the ice in.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Oh that's it. I never thought about you never.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Think properly with these I think clearly, okay, okay, what
is okay, we'll move on from what is yours abount.
You know how we like to go for walks on
Sunday Sunday, Well, I finally found what our walks are
called Okay, there's a whole movement called the fart walk,
and usually people do it after dinner, but you and
(38:10):
I have managed to do this in the mornings as well.
So it's a Canadian woman who developed the fart walk,
and meaning that even if it's just for twenty minutes,
ten minutes after dinner, to go out, stretch your legs
and fat, yeah, do a bit of a fart to
just get all your gases and your digestion moving around.
(38:32):
And so her suggestion is of an evening go for
a fart walk. So if you see your neighbors, your
friends heading out, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Exactly what they're I know exactly what they're doing. And Amanda,
I think that we have really, you know, gone to
the to the nth degree in our ability to complete
it for it walk, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Think so too. Well done us, Well done us. And
initially we brought the dog to cover up any of
the sounds.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, we should.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Just own it.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Now I think we think we should just own it.
We'll get t shirts made.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
We're going to be like those old people that don't
know when they're letting off how freeing?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Oh, I like I like that it is kind of
just this. I am going to own this.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
And what's hilarious is there's no nothing in this book
about how to cover up a fart because women in
the sixties never passed wind.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Clearly did not.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
A lot of them exploded, No wonder they needed that.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Well, there was nothing to go on.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Oh the courses wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
The end of the they'd have to go and take
off their coursets in the in the closets.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
In the closet, and then go into the backyard to
pass a bit of wind. I think so well on
that delightful that I've enjoyed this very much.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
I love him, my friend, love you to buy
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