August 6, 2025 • 37 mins
Fresh from the Logies red carpet, Amanda shares what it’s really like to survive a late-night TV awards show on two glasses of wine and four hours’ sleep. Then, she and Anita turn their attention to book clubs — why we love them, why they sometimes implode, and the delicate balance between friendship, leadership, and actually finishing the book. From Oprah’s “reading revolution” to passive-aggressive surveys, fake book clubbers, and their own hilariously named BBBC, the Chattery duo explore why book clubs are thriving again post-COVID, what happens when they go off the rails, and how reading really is the antidote to endless scrolling.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice. Well.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello, I'm Amanda Keller and I'm Anita McGregor, and welcome to.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Double A Chattery. How are you, Anita? I'm doing very
very well. Have you crap in your sleep yet? Amanda
Keller after the very late nighted The logis.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
The logis for those who don't know, are Australia's television
awards And I went it was Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's always a Sunday night. That's so weird they do.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
They make it Sunday night so they can televise it
on television in a big ratings slot.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
But it goes so late.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I don't think Australians have a history of watching late
night television. So they finished at about eleven thirty and
then there's a party afterwards. And I do breakfast radio
and get.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Up at four o'clock.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So I got home at two and woke up at four.
But I didn't have that much to drink. Because in
the old days they do the same with radio awards.
These to just be bottles on the tables because it's
a meal service these days, you have to wait for
waiters or waitresses wait staff to come around and pour
a drink. And so I had to present an award
(01:28):
in the middle of the event, so I had to
leave the table for some time. Came back, couldn't and
I didn't want to drink beforehand. Came back, and really
it was incredibly difficult to get someone to come and
pour me a drink. And when someone did come over
and ask for a big glug of red wine, I
asked them also to fill my water glass with red wine,
because I thought, if I don't get them now, it's
(01:50):
never going to happen. So I had two glasses of
wine all night.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Were are the paparazzi when you need them? Amanda Color
Double feather drinking.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's a long day because you have your smash repairs
or your makeup done. Around midday, I got taken to
I was the guest of the ABC. I got taken
to the ABC. Then we get ferried from the ABC
to the Star where the event was on. You wander
around the red carpet takes about an hour and talking
to journalists and things along long walk.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's a very.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Long walk and an intense kind of experience, and then
you go inside and there's a meal service, and then
the show starts at seven point thirty. So you've been
pretty much on the go. And this is what I
said on radio the other morning, actually that I had
some trepidation about going. I've gone a number of Last
year I didn't go, but for years I've gone to
(02:43):
the Logis and I was nominated for a Gold LOGI
two years in a row, which is the big gong
at the end of the night most popular TV personality
in Australia. And the last year had been quite tricky
because Tom Gleason, who won, decided and fair enough, he's
a comedian to kind of make it the process into
(03:06):
a joke. Of course, people were always sneered at the
cheesiness of the logies and so it kind of became
the butt of a joke. And he wanted to see
how easy it was to rout the system and encourage
people who wouldn't normally vote for the logis to vote
for him and see if they could twist the result.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But makes it really uncomfortable for you.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It made it so hard for me because I'm a
very thin skinned human. I'm a pragmatic media person, yes,
but to be put up for this amazing award, and
I was very grateful to be nominated. I hadn't won
the year before. That was fine. To be put up
for an award and having to talk to journalists about
why it should be you and not Tom who's making
a joke of it was so hard. I just felt
(03:50):
like I felt like I was.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Carrying around an anvil.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So I had a bit of and I see Tom now,
I saw him on Sunday night. Fine, it's all fine,
But I had a little bit of red cut at PTSD.
I'm overstating it, but the last time I had to
do all that, every question was about have you heard
what Tom said about you? What do you think? Do
you think it's a joke. But what happened after that
year was that we had COVID and the logis were
(04:16):
canceled for a number of years. But it made people
realize how important television is in their lives. And Free
to Wear TV ABC got eleven awards this year, more
than Netflix, more than Stand, more than all the streaming services,
and Free to Wear TV gets a bad rap. And
Lin McGranger, who has been the character of Irene on
(04:36):
Home and Away Forever thirty years, won the Gold LOGI
and her character is leaving the series, and she said
it's only a soap, but it touches people's lives all
around the world. And during COVID, she said she got
letters from people saying it's saved them.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So I think people in the room at the Logis
and the Widest Story now have come to love the
Logis and revere the TV industry in a way they
didn't pre COVID.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I feel and so on the.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Night, I was a little bit anxious about with all
the stuff going on with Harley. I'm very aware I
have probably a form of care is fatigue, just always
exhaust You're on all the time all the time. There
are people in my house all the time, the sadness
and grief of what my family's going through. So I thought,
do I have the energy for Sunday night? And there
(05:31):
was so much love and affection. As I was said
on radio the other day, this is an industry I've
been part of for forty years. Many people in that
room that night know love Harley, have worked with Harley
over the years, know what's going on with us. I
felt wrapped in a giant hug and I felt like
it filled the cup in a way that in past
(05:54):
years I haven't felt because I felt the strain of it.
This time I just felt loved and it was lovely.
So it sounds like I've gone early with my glimmer.
But thank you for asking about the logis. It was
a hugely satisfying, emotional night all round.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Can I also say how absolutely beautiful you looked? Oh? Well,
thank you you did? That outfit was just stunning.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, it was a beautiful suit that had I had
a stylist help me. She saw it online from England London,
had it sent out here. We had it adjusted and
it's really thick material, so I didn't have to worry
about holding in undise or brass slippage or you know,
I may well have been wearing a really oversized wetsuit.
It was so comfortable and I didn't have to think about.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It, just like a tracksuit.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It it was a glamorous tracksuit and who doesn't want that.
The big trend I saw on the red carpet were
skirts that beautiful skirts of big, thick flowing material, but
that the front and the side would join at the
waist and so you saw the wearer's leg, but probably
(07:00):
more too when they were trying to get out of
seats and things like that. You know, if you're in
a wind tunnel, there have been a lot on display.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I don't know how people do that, Like it's kind
of like those crazy Halloween outfits where you think you
can't sit down, you can't stand up, you can't walk
through a door. No, it's just impossible.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And the number of people on Logi's night who go,
I'm going to be sleeping this outfit because I cannot
take it off. Have you seen the great footage of
Jane Fonder. There's a great one of her posing beautifully
at an awards night, and then a shot she's taken
off herself, looking dreadful, making a cup of tea and
disheveled the next morning, still wearing it because she said,
I haven't I don't know how to take this off.
(07:40):
I can't take it off. So it was great, and
thank you for asking, well, should we get onto what
we're talking about today, which is book clubs.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Let's talk about book clubs because there was a great
article and it was it was by the guardian Amanda,
and it was talking about when book clubs go bad.
It sounds it sounds kind of I don't know like that.
You know somehow they start doing you know, making meth
labs or something like that. We should do that with
our book club. We should.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think I just called it a book lab. I
think you're onto some ether on a robber bank or
make crystal myth.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I've got people I know. Well, how does a book
club go bad? Well, it's it was an interesting article
because it talked about how there's been kind of a
proliferation of these book clubs. And we were talking earlier
about how the whole Oprah book Club was maybe that
(08:53):
start of how they started. I don't remember book clubs
as a young woman, do you.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Oh no, no, actually, and the author Tony Morrison said
that Oprah's book Club was the beginning of quote a
reading revolution, and women now account for eighty percent of
fiction cells they say, so.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I mean I've always been a big reader, like a
really big reader, but most of it has just been
things I hear about, you know, going to the library
and you know, seeing a book on display or you know,
hearing about something. But book club is kind of where
often the reading is provided for you. You get kind
of a there's no choice, often no choice, which I
(09:35):
found was an interesting part of it for me a
good part, but I can imagine for some people not
a good part. So this article was talking about when
book clubs, which are often groups of women, but not always,
but often groups of women who get together with the
apparently primary reason to read a book and want to
(09:57):
discuss it. Well, it's yeah, there's well that's part. Maybe
alcohol being involved is where it goes bad. I don't know,
maybe fistfights. I mean, like because you're.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Going to get women plus opinions plus alcohol.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yes, plus plus. Often it is one of those situations
where it's just a whole bunch of women and who's
going to choose the next book? So there's often kind
of that those leadership questions about like who's going to
direct this, who's going to organize it, how are we
going to how is it going to be set up?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Some of these like we have a book club, we're
part of a book club, but everyone in that is
a friendship group. Some of these other book clubs that
have been really much which sound terrifying, where you join
a book club and you don't know the people. Yeah,
in a way, if you're a friendship group, which is
easier for someone to assume the leadership role in a
friendship group or in a group where you don't know
(10:55):
each other.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Well, it's that we You often in a friendship group
have that person who's the hub of the wheel, who
they're the ones that organize things, They're the ones that
get things. You know, let's do this, let's go out
for dinner, let's you know, let's celebrate somebody's birthday, let's
do this. So there's often that person in a friendship group.
(11:17):
But this is kind of, in some ways almost a
different role because it's it is a continuing activity. So
they often stay in that role, sometimes willingly and sometimes
maybe not willingly.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And sometimes also from that article, people have different agendas
about the book club. Some book clubs get furious if
you don't read the book, and other book clubs don't
care so much because weren't they saying that that's These
are the three main topics that have led to book
lab led to book clubs. Going bad is irregular attendance,
(11:53):
God give it a break. Not everyone's going to be
free every time. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah, dominant personalities and
people not reading the book. They seem to be the
big three with problems lie.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
And It's what I really thought was interesting is that
this this Guardian article that we read about book clubs
going bad, was it started off with this book club
where they had done this anonymous survey of the members
of the book club. Would you do that? I know?
And apparently in the some of the comments there was
(12:25):
some diplomatic comments about, you know, people having opinions about
whether the book should be read. You know, if you're
going to attend, should you have read the book? And
some of the people actually took the that call those
comments as kind of a slap at them, and they
(12:46):
and it just ended in a furious you know, maybe
furious non row. But people just didn't come back to
the book club, and the book club fell apart, And
I thought, isn't that interesting because maybe under the surface
there was all that people who were being kind of
upset that you know, people were attending and they hadn't
(13:06):
read the book, and.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Like, oh, his life's too hard to worry. But I
saw him And it might have been the Washington Post
there was a problems page and They said that they
can't get an etiquette page. They can't get past the
fact that they know that someone in their book club
doesn't read the book and is faking it. And they said,
I've known that they're not reading it. Should I call
(13:29):
them out?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
What are they doing? Like going onto and googling like
a crib notes like at school?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yes? Yeah, And so that person who was faking it
would be the first one to come in with an
opinion and get their thing out of the way. Yeah,
So to say, hey, I've read it and then sit
back as if they had read the whole book.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And so this person was saying, wow, should I go
and ask them some like intricate part of the plot
so that I can call them out?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Like It reminds me of writing essays when I was
at UNI and teachers. What I realized now the lecturers
have must known instantly you've read twenty pages, and so
the whole essay, the whole essay would be what happened
in the first twenty pages. You might just talk about
the font when had said it was published in seventy eight.
That moved me enormously.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I'm very fond of the publisher, our book club let's
talk about our book club.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
What's its name? And let's start with that Boozing Bitching
book Club. Isn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
No, it's a BBBC. So the boozing bitching. Oh there's
another b we're missing.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Isn't that book?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Boozing Bitching book Club BBC? That's it BBBC, that's it?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Is it book? Well?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
That's interesting you say that, because the book sometimes is
the least important part of it, the boosion and the bitch.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And is the big bit. Yeah that I and we
are kind of corralled into having a discussion about the
book because we're catching up, we're having a glass of wine,
we're chatting about all kinds of things, and we sometimes
have to get corralled saying yeah, yeah, we're here to
go and talk about a.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Book, because we do. And I don't always go. It's
a Friday night once every six weeks weeks something like that,
and I can't always make that. But the book does
get discussed absolutely, and sometimes people turn up without having
read it, and nobody cares.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Nobody cares about nobody that says that they care about.
We're not going to do with survey, Anita, Let's not
do it and not it. It's not to my shame.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
There was once one of the books, I was three
quarters of the way through it and everyone and I said,
and I only realized afterwards, what a terrible thing to decay.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I said, Oh, don't talk about the ending.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And I wasn't even joking, because if you haven't read
the book, stiff shit. Yeah, sorry that you're going to
have to have it discussed. Yeah, and even you know,
then when I was on the receiving I said, please
don't discuss the ending. You know, you have to spoilers
going to a bound.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah. Absolutely. And and there's lots of times where i've
you know, I maybe have not read the book or
have been halfway through, and then we talk about the book,
and maybe that makes it, you know, helps me make
the decision about whether I read it or finish it.
So I don't know, I never mind when when there
are spoiler alerts.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And also the way our group works and everyone's is different.
We take it in turns hosting it, and if it's
your turn, you do the main meal, and you farm
out Nibley's desserts, salads, and someone else brings bread, and
everyone chocolates. Everyone brings booze. You always end up with
more booze at your house afterwards.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's lovely that it is such a
communal sense about it that everybody comes in and you know,
there's this amazing meal that is served, and we all just, yeah,
it is a very comfortable book club.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Having said that, yes it is. But sometimes when you're
the one having to provide the meal, that comes with
an added stress. My sister in law is part of
a book club and what they do is they meet
for cake and a glass of wine or a cup
of tea. So they meet after dinner because the dinner
adds a layer to it, doesn't it, which is part
of the fun. And for us, we eat before we
(17:21):
discuss the book. We were asking you our teacups on
our double a chattery page, how your book clubs work.
And there's a variety of how they happened, isn't there?
I thought that was really interesting. It's one said here
we stopped reading as we were too busy bringing wine
(17:41):
and drinking, and that worked well for us.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
This one was called she said.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Emily Costello says, my old book club was called Reading
between the lines. There was no pressure to read the book.
We mostly bitched about our partners, but then we all
went and moved and had babies and it dissolved.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
But it was joyous while it lasted. This one too.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This is from Kathy Booth, who said in her book club,
they read whatever they want because often one of the
point of complaints was that people didn't like being dictated
to as to what to read. Whereas for me, I
like it because me too, it takes the choice out
of it exposes you to books she wouldn't normally know
all that kind of stuff. Kathy Booth has written here
(18:21):
that she loves her book club because they get to
read whatever they want. And that was a big source
of this, is that some people said they didn't like
book clubs because they didn't want to be told what
to read.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So everybody reads a different book and they come in
and they talk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, we have a rule to not share the story
rather why we like the author and the style of writing.
We refer to the characters in the storyline as it's
written on the back of the book, and so if
you're with ten other people, you get a sense of
ten other books or podcasts. Some people say, now we
talk about podcasts, audio books, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I really like that.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I quite like those being told what to read.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Me too, Me too, because there's I have a particular
you know, gen well, we both have a particular genre,
which is, you know, very porn, but you know, slash
dragon porn, dragon porn, and so it is kind of
nice sometimes to you know, expand from them just to
the porn. Yeah, it's called erotica. Sorry, I knew you'd
(19:21):
have a fancy name for I also love that there
are some people who buy a set of books instead
of Christmas presents for each other, and then they read
the books through the year. They all read the same one,
they all read the same ones through the year, discuss them,
and then they donate the books at the end of
(19:42):
the year. I thought that was quite a good night too,
to the library, to a local labrary, Yeah, which I
think is really nice. I really like that there's been
a proliferation of these little community.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Book what are they called little it's almost like a
book cupboard. It's a out dog park.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah. I think that that's a lovely idea. And I'll
often check in there to see if there's something interesting
in there, because you never know where your next street
is going to come from.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I thought i'd humiliate my children, and I was only joking.
But because I've written a book, I told the kids
I was going to put it down in the community
library that's down at the local dog park. They were horrified.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I would never, in a million years do that. I
would have gone down and just drawn a little mustache
on you.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
The nature has beaten into it, Anita. I like this
comment here from Angelo who said in her group, it's
best to have a limited settle in chat time at
the beginning, so they allow fifteen minutes to discuss the book,
and that way those that have to leave early can
whereas we all have dinner and drinks beforehand. Actually, have
(20:48):
you noticed, and this is a subset of a conversation
less of our book club, of drinking these days.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Have you noticed that?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, very much so. And I think that's the.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
New that's a new trend as well in women of
our aid, which maybe.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well part of it too, is that we're coming from
different many of us are coming from different communities now,
and so we are driving. And so if we're going
to drive, we're not going to drink. And unless we
choose to uber it and then yeah, but it's you're right.
But my question is, so the Angela is saying yes,
fifteen minutes, who enforces that? Like, this is the question
(21:21):
that I have. It's like who sets up these things? So,
because if this was a business, there would be often
a manager, a leader of somebody who is the one
that kind of creates the policies and procedures.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And that's an accepted level of authority.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, and for some of these I would imagine it
would be a a thankless task to go and organize it.
But b that there would I can imagine the amount
of you know, being pissed off saying, you're not the
boss of me. You can't tell me I have to
stop chatting at fifteen minutes, you know that. Yeah, so
(21:55):
it would be a very interesting process, and I can
see how book clubs can go about. I can see
that that you know, for some people, there's going to
be that equation about am I getting enough out of
this that you know, I can put up with people
being upset that I haven't read the book, or that
you know, I'm in forest to fifteen minutes of chat time,
(22:18):
or I.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Never get to pick the next book. Though it's kind
of all those emotional triggers of a feeling hurt. And
for many people the book, the chat isn't just about
the book, it's about the stories around it. And in
modern America, I can see why book clubs are exploding
because America is so fractured politically ideologically that if the
(22:41):
conversation gets a bit broader, like people can't have Thanksgiving
meals with their own families anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I read about a guy the other day who said
he found out that his mother had voted for Trump,
so he decided to release online all her most preciously
held recipes. It was a brilliant, massive, aggressive way of
punishing his mother. Wow, So this is how fractured.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, you can be. You'd have to be very careful
about the books because one of the books that we
read is that Demon Copper Demon Copperhead, Yeah, which was
a fantastic book but really really talks about how the
Appellation communities are just have just been devastated by the
(23:29):
opioid crisis.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Actually know what it was that book that helped me
understand Donald Trump getting elected the first time. Yes, because
all the factories had closed down and Donald Trump as
a showman looked at that and said, those blue collar
workers have no one representing them. He's certainly not representing
them now, but he saw a lack because Hillary Clinton
(23:51):
called them a basket of deplorables.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Remember all that? Absolutely, so yeah, so yeah, So I
would imagine that the choice of book would have to
be very considered because the alternative would be to get
again that feud. You know, those book clubs going bad, Amanda.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Some of our favorite books from our book club are
challenging and hard reads, aren't they. For all the other
ones we read in the midst of it, my favorites
have been that one and A Little.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Life, Oh same, absolutely, And I mean some of them,
like even the ones that haven't been you know, my taste.
At the end of the day, I've still appreciated reading them.
But there are some amazing books that I you know,
all of a sudden, I'm developing a real appreciation for
(24:43):
this particular author, and then I'll go on and read
more of his or her books. So, I mean, book
club has certainly done that for me. I really love
that there's a social element to it. I love that
we get to see each other in a bit of
a different light, you know, like I get to see,
you know, women having opinions about something, which often in
other social arenas we're not doing that as much. So
(25:06):
I really love that in a book club. I love
that there's a bit of structure. So yeah, I mean,
I really like a book club. You know. I think
that it's been a great addition to my life. And
I you know, I appreciate with your life as it is,
that you know, making it to our book clubs is
not you know, potentially currently on the cards, but it is.
(25:30):
It is something like I love seeing you there. I
love hearing your opinions about books. So it is just
a different side of you. This is what I love.
I was going to say the same about you.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Is that I'll read a book and then we'll discuss
it on our walk or at book club, and you'll
mention something I thought I never thought of that I
never saw it that way. And that's why a book
club is great. You can all read the same book,
but you'll all see different moments in it. Yeah, and
that's the beauty of it, isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And the and the shore today, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I don't I'm not brave enough to suggest we do
fairy porn at our book club.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Imagine, imagine.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think we have to pretend to be a bit
more literary than that occasionally.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You know what I've got to say in defense of
our hilarious reading preferences lately, Amanda, that the fairy porn,
the dragon porn, all of that stuff is such an
excellent escape from reality.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And that's what they say, and for all it's brought
women back to reading. Yeah, because social media trolling, all
that trolling, scrolling, same thing, same thing, has taken people's
eye off the book ball. I'm mixing so many metaphors together,
keep up that. I think that it doesn't matter what
you're reading. If there's some form of escapism, there should
(26:55):
be no elitism around it.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And I have noticed that I have, like I am
a pro lific reader, quick created term, a very quick reader.
But I actually there was a while there, a couple
of years ago, where I was probably doing more social
media that kind of stuff, and I just thought, I'm
not enjoying my you know, my my free time as much.
(27:17):
And it was a real effort to get back into reading.
And so now I find that that seems to be
the competition for me. Is how much time do I
spend reading versus how much time do I spend on
social media? And I really like it where it's about
eighty percent reading and twenty percent social media rolling stuff. Yeah, trolling,
trolling absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well that's a that's a very high minded equation. I
don't know if i'd be that. And I read a
chapter and think I'll reward myself by looking at Instagram
or flicking through some I think.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Stop, stop, yeah, and it's there, really is a drag
towards towards the social media. So I maybe this is
the antidote to social media, is that that you know,
returned to reading and chatting of it and connecting in
that way.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well that's what people were saying about why the book
clubs became so popular during COVID as well, Because we're
just in our own heads, on our own phones, iPads, whatever.
This was a way of lifting your head and looking
out a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Good for us a man, good for us to show off.
I know, well, you know what I used to do.
I used to go and read. I had to read
so much for like just technical books you know about
you know, the work that I do. And then and
then I once I kind of got out of school.
I kind of said, oh, I'm going to read one
professional book and then one, you know book for fun.
(28:36):
And I did that for years, and I actually found
that that was just such a lovely balance for me.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
You're still reading textbooks I do, I do, I do,
I do.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You know, just kind of more not not always like
technical books about you know, implementing something, but it might
be a leadership book, or it might be a book
on you know, implementing change or you know that kind
of thing. So you know, things that are are are
kind of current in my work kind of stuff. So
(29:08):
it's I really find I know that you kind of
like you don't.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Like the I can't read anything that's not a novel. Yeah,
I don't like biographies. I don't like I get my
fact in fiction confused. I don't like I don't like
real things.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
A need a.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yes, I find it very hard to read actual books
that aren't novels.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, But I mean I think we all have our chase, Like,
I don't like biographies much at all, but I do
like you know, but other than that, my my reading, well,
I've got.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
An autobiography at home that might you can find it
down at my local dog park.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I've got mine. It's got a little mustache on. That's
the one. That's the one.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
At this part of the pod, as we like to
do our glimmers. And in case you're a new double
a chattery tea cup, how do you describe a glimmer, Anita?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
A glimmer is the opposite of a trigger. So you know,
we can walk through our worlds just being looking at
all the things that make us sad or frustrated or angry.
But instead of that, we can actually look for the
things that are joyous in our life, those little moments,
and those are the glimmers in our lives. And if
we actually I think that you and I have talked
about this a lot, is that if we can actually
(30:30):
have a focus on the things that bring us joy
and that we can actually make that a habit, that's
that's a that's a wonderful thing. So we end every
little podcast with a little glimmer. Why don't you go first?
I will I? So this week? Last week, I guess
it would be last week, now, wouldn't it? Let me
(30:51):
try that again? Why don't you go first? Okay, so
last week, Amanda, I progressed in my PhD by completing
what's called a candidature. So this is a big paper
that I had to write that outlines the studies that
(31:12):
I'm doing for my PhD. And it goes out to
the head of school and a couple of other academics
and they read this paper and then I do a
presentation and they grill me for like it's a two
hour process. It's a big process. It did it involve
interpretive dance in a bikini section? I was? I was
(31:35):
actually at some point because when I began it there
was some technical issues about getting the slides going. Oh
my presidentay, oh my god, I tell you that was
a sweat moment.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
But I got through it.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
It went really well, and I just it was a
glimmer in that it felt like, you know that I've
jumped that hoop, and it was a really it's a
beautiful hoop for me because I'm not doing my PhD
for anything other than the pure pleasure of it, which
kind of doesn't sound right because PhDs or anything but
(32:09):
pleasurable in general. But I've really enjoyed the process because
I think and I'm doing it at a time in
my career where I actually think I can contribute something
to the to my profession. So I'm really yeah, it
was a lovely It was a lovely moment.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
When does a PhD wrap up? Is it like how
long is a piece of string?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
In some ways, it's how long is a piece of string?
You know, because there's ethics applications, and there's studies, and
there's publications, and there's you know, who cares about that stuff?
That it is. It's a it's a process. It'll probably
be another three years.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And then are you a doctor McGregor?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I will make you call me that, Amanda.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And when you're on a plane and they say is
there a doctor, do you say I can help?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Oh? Absolutely yes. Well is this a time that I
bring up that that fantasy that I had? What's that? Oh?
When I was in my late thirties, I was like,
I told my husband that I had this fantasy that
we were in an airport and that sixty fantasy. Well, no,
it's not. But on the that there was going to
(33:12):
be an announcement at the airport saying is there a
psychologist in the airport? And I put my hand up
and then I had to go off on a helicopter
somewhere important to do some some amazing thing, right, So
of course my husband told the entire family about this
so that they could laugh their asses off. And then
for my fortieth birthday, they went and got me a
(33:34):
helicopter trip at in National Park. Beautiful, beautiful place, and
so at end I made the helicopter pilot announce like
is there a psychologist in the place? And then I
got to go and you know, see the it was beautiful,
It was a beautiful is it everything you wanted it
to do? Everything? Amanda? You know, sometimes it's really good
(33:55):
to have those moments, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
That's I've got that imagine today though, as a psychologist
in the house because everyone needs one.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I know, you'd be far too busy. Don't announce it.
Don't announce it, I know, And I went to the
White House, that's right. Oh my gosh. No, I only
take on hopeful pieces anyway. Anyway, tell me about your deliver.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Well, this is more something that I was reading as
we were thinking about book clubs, and I thought I'll
bring it to the table as a glimmer because I
think this would be interesting. It's a forcing party where
this woman had a group of friends and they all
had to nominate something that they didn't get to do
that they should have done, and they came together and
(34:41):
they forced each other to do it. One was finish
your taxes. One was start a website. What was another one?
I think it was finishing a sewing project. These were
things that you procrastinate about that sit badly with you.
So it's not like you've forgotten about them. They ruminate
with you like a loose tooth. And everyone came together
(35:02):
and as a group they solved them all.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
They did them all. So this is kind of like,
I'm accountable to the group for doing this.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I'm going to bring something to the table that has
been gnawing at me that I can't do, and someone
else will say, what is it, I'll help you with it.
So between the skill set of the group, partly it's
sometimes it's skill set. Partly you can't be bothered finishing something.
Partly you hate paperwork, that's my thing. So it's a
support in the accountability for me. It would be the
accountability that I you know that I would feel as though,
(35:32):
oh God, I'm beholden to these people. Now.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I said I was going to do it, yes, and
now that's right, or else in the process.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
They sometimes the projects got done when they're all together,
but sometimes you went home with a structure as to
how to do it. But of course what you're giving
your friends is a lightness of feeling you lift the
anvil from their hands.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Oh, I like that. So I used to do when
I was at university. There was a bunch of us
who we were accountable to each other for exercising and
it was I think you had to do three times
a week for at least half an hour, and for
every time you didn't do it, you had to put
ten dollars into a kitty. And we were like poor
(36:14):
students at that time. And at the end of the year,
half of the money went to a charity that we
didn't particularly like, meaning you didn't want to contribute it
we wouldn't have contributed to normally. And that's a nice twist. Yeah,
and half of it we went out for a lunch
with so wow.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, that's a very interesting incentive.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Now we didn't like. It wasn't like we're going to
go and support the Nazi Party.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
It wasn't not that, but it was planed support.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
But it was maybe, you know, supporting something that normally
we would have just passed by, so it was an
interesting thing.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I like this.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I don't like the name forcing parties yeah, and the
lifting party yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yes. The accountability that sounds like accounting. It does sounds hard.
It sounds hard too, No, but I like the idea.
We're gonna have to find teacups give us an idea. Yes, teacups,
please join in.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
If there's anything that we've said that has intrigued you, pricked,
a memory, a suggestion, anything we love, love love to hear.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
That would be great.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And Anita, mm hmmm, I'll see you an next plain
see it
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice. Well.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello, I'm Amanda Keller and I'm Anita McGregor, and welcome to.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Double A Chattery. How are you, Anita? I'm doing very
very well. Have you crap in your sleep yet? Amanda
Keller after the very late nighted The logis.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
The logis for those who don't know, are Australia's television
awards And I went it was Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's always a Sunday night. That's so weird they do.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
They make it Sunday night so they can televise it
on television in a big ratings slot.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
But it goes so late.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I don't think Australians have a history of watching late
night television. So they finished at about eleven thirty and
then there's a party afterwards. And I do breakfast radio
and get.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Up at four o'clock.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So I got home at two and woke up at four.
But I didn't have that much to drink. Because in
the old days they do the same with radio awards.
These to just be bottles on the tables because it's
a meal service these days, you have to wait for
waiters or waitresses wait staff to come around and pour
a drink. And so I had to present an award
(01:28):
in the middle of the event, so I had to
leave the table for some time. Came back, couldn't and
I didn't want to drink beforehand. Came back, and really
it was incredibly difficult to get someone to come and
pour me a drink. And when someone did come over
and ask for a big glug of red wine, I
asked them also to fill my water glass with red wine,
because I thought, if I don't get them now, it's
(01:50):
never going to happen. So I had two glasses of
wine all night.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Were are the paparazzi when you need them? Amanda Color
Double feather drinking.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's a long day because you have your smash repairs
or your makeup done. Around midday, I got taken to
I was the guest of the ABC. I got taken
to the ABC. Then we get ferried from the ABC
to the Star where the event was on. You wander
around the red carpet takes about an hour and talking
to journalists and things along long walk.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's a very.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Long walk and an intense kind of experience, and then
you go inside and there's a meal service, and then
the show starts at seven point thirty. So you've been
pretty much on the go. And this is what I
said on radio the other morning, actually that I had
some trepidation about going. I've gone a number of Last
year I didn't go, but for years I've gone to
(02:43):
the Logis and I was nominated for a Gold LOGI
two years in a row, which is the big gong
at the end of the night most popular TV personality
in Australia. And the last year had been quite tricky
because Tom Gleason, who won, decided and fair enough, he's
a comedian to kind of make it the process into
(03:06):
a joke. Of course, people were always sneered at the
cheesiness of the logies and so it kind of became
the butt of a joke. And he wanted to see
how easy it was to rout the system and encourage
people who wouldn't normally vote for the logis to vote
for him and see if they could twist the result.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But makes it really uncomfortable for you.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It made it so hard for me because I'm a
very thin skinned human. I'm a pragmatic media person, yes,
but to be put up for this amazing award, and
I was very grateful to be nominated. I hadn't won
the year before. That was fine. To be put up
for an award and having to talk to journalists about
why it should be you and not Tom who's making
a joke of it was so hard. I just felt
(03:50):
like I felt like I was.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Carrying around an anvil.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So I had a bit of and I see Tom now,
I saw him on Sunday night. Fine, it's all fine,
But I had a little bit of red cut at PTSD.
I'm overstating it, but the last time I had to
do all that, every question was about have you heard
what Tom said about you? What do you think? Do
you think it's a joke. But what happened after that
year was that we had COVID and the logis were
(04:16):
canceled for a number of years. But it made people
realize how important television is in their lives. And Free
to Wear TV ABC got eleven awards this year, more
than Netflix, more than Stand, more than all the streaming services,
and Free to Wear TV gets a bad rap. And
Lin McGranger, who has been the character of Irene on
(04:36):
Home and Away Forever thirty years, won the Gold LOGI
and her character is leaving the series, and she said
it's only a soap, but it touches people's lives all
around the world. And during COVID, she said she got
letters from people saying it's saved them.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So I think people in the room at the Logis
and the Widest Story now have come to love the
Logis and revere the TV industry in a way they
didn't pre COVID.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I feel and so on the.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Night, I was a little bit anxious about with all
the stuff going on with Harley. I'm very aware I
have probably a form of care is fatigue, just always
exhaust You're on all the time all the time. There
are people in my house all the time, the sadness
and grief of what my family's going through. So I thought,
do I have the energy for Sunday night? And there
(05:31):
was so much love and affection. As I was said
on radio the other day, this is an industry I've
been part of for forty years. Many people in that
room that night know love Harley, have worked with Harley
over the years, know what's going on with us. I
felt wrapped in a giant hug and I felt like
it filled the cup in a way that in past
(05:54):
years I haven't felt because I felt the strain of it.
This time I just felt loved and it was lovely.
So it sounds like I've gone early with my glimmer.
But thank you for asking about the logis. It was
a hugely satisfying, emotional night all round.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Can I also say how absolutely beautiful you looked? Oh? Well,
thank you you did? That outfit was just stunning.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, it was a beautiful suit that had I had
a stylist help me. She saw it online from England London,
had it sent out here. We had it adjusted and
it's really thick material, so I didn't have to worry
about holding in undise or brass slippage or you know,
I may well have been wearing a really oversized wetsuit.
It was so comfortable and I didn't have to think about.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It, just like a tracksuit.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It it was a glamorous tracksuit and who doesn't want that.
The big trend I saw on the red carpet were
skirts that beautiful skirts of big, thick flowing material, but
that the front and the side would join at the
waist and so you saw the wearer's leg, but probably
(07:00):
more too when they were trying to get out of
seats and things like that. You know, if you're in
a wind tunnel, there have been a lot on display.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I don't know how people do that, Like it's kind
of like those crazy Halloween outfits where you think you
can't sit down, you can't stand up, you can't walk
through a door. No, it's just impossible.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And the number of people on Logi's night who go,
I'm going to be sleeping this outfit because I cannot
take it off. Have you seen the great footage of
Jane Fonder. There's a great one of her posing beautifully
at an awards night, and then a shot she's taken
off herself, looking dreadful, making a cup of tea and
disheveled the next morning, still wearing it because she said,
I haven't I don't know how to take this off.
(07:40):
I can't take it off. So it was great, and
thank you for asking, well, should we get onto what
we're talking about today, which is book clubs.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Let's talk about book clubs because there was a great
article and it was it was by the guardian Amanda,
and it was talking about when book clubs go bad.
It sounds it sounds kind of I don't know like that.
You know somehow they start doing you know, making meth
labs or something like that. We should do that with
our book club. We should.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think I just called it a book lab. I
think you're onto some ether on a robber bank or
make crystal myth.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I've got people I know. Well, how does a book
club go bad? Well, it's it was an interesting article
because it talked about how there's been kind of a
proliferation of these book clubs. And we were talking earlier
about how the whole Oprah book Club was maybe that
(08:53):
start of how they started. I don't remember book clubs
as a young woman, do you.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Oh no, no, actually, and the author Tony Morrison said
that Oprah's book Club was the beginning of quote a
reading revolution, and women now account for eighty percent of
fiction cells they say, so.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I mean I've always been a big reader, like a
really big reader, but most of it has just been
things I hear about, you know, going to the library
and you know, seeing a book on display or you know,
hearing about something. But book club is kind of where
often the reading is provided for you. You get kind
of a there's no choice, often no choice, which I
(09:35):
found was an interesting part of it for me a
good part, but I can imagine for some people not
a good part. So this article was talking about when
book clubs, which are often groups of women, but not always,
but often groups of women who get together with the
apparently primary reason to read a book and want to
(09:57):
discuss it. Well, it's yeah, there's well that's part. Maybe
alcohol being involved is where it goes bad. I don't know,
maybe fistfights. I mean, like because you're.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Going to get women plus opinions plus alcohol.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yes, plus plus. Often it is one of those situations
where it's just a whole bunch of women and who's
going to choose the next book? So there's often kind
of that those leadership questions about like who's going to
direct this, who's going to organize it, how are we
going to how is it going to be set up?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Some of these like we have a book club, we're
part of a book club, but everyone in that is
a friendship group. Some of these other book clubs that
have been really much which sound terrifying, where you join
a book club and you don't know the people. Yeah,
in a way, if you're a friendship group, which is
easier for someone to assume the leadership role in a
friendship group or in a group where you don't know
(10:55):
each other.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Well, it's that we You often in a friendship group
have that person who's the hub of the wheel, who
they're the ones that organize things, They're the ones that
get things. You know, let's do this, let's go out
for dinner, let's you know, let's celebrate somebody's birthday, let's
do this. So there's often that person in a friendship group.
(11:17):
But this is kind of, in some ways almost a
different role because it's it is a continuing activity. So
they often stay in that role, sometimes willingly and sometimes
maybe not willingly.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And sometimes also from that article, people have different agendas
about the book club. Some book clubs get furious if
you don't read the book, and other book clubs don't
care so much because weren't they saying that that's These
are the three main topics that have led to book
lab led to book clubs. Going bad is irregular attendance,
(11:53):
God give it a break. Not everyone's going to be
free every time. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah, dominant personalities and
people not reading the book. They seem to be the
big three with problems lie.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
And It's what I really thought was interesting is that
this this Guardian article that we read about book clubs
going bad, was it started off with this book club
where they had done this anonymous survey of the members
of the book club. Would you do that? I know?
And apparently in the some of the comments there was
(12:25):
some diplomatic comments about, you know, people having opinions about
whether the book should be read. You know, if you're
going to attend, should you have read the book? And
some of the people actually took the that call those
comments as kind of a slap at them, and they
(12:46):
and it just ended in a furious you know, maybe
furious non row. But people just didn't come back to
the book club, and the book club fell apart, And
I thought, isn't that interesting because maybe under the surface
there was all that people who were being kind of
upset that you know, people were attending and they hadn't
(13:06):
read the book, and.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Like, oh, his life's too hard to worry. But I
saw him And it might have been the Washington Post
there was a problems page and They said that they
can't get an etiquette page. They can't get past the
fact that they know that someone in their book club
doesn't read the book and is faking it. And they said,
I've known that they're not reading it. Should I call
(13:29):
them out?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
What are they doing? Like going onto and googling like
a crib notes like at school?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yes? Yeah, And so that person who was faking it
would be the first one to come in with an
opinion and get their thing out of the way. Yeah,
So to say, hey, I've read it and then sit
back as if they had read the whole book.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And so this person was saying, wow, should I go
and ask them some like intricate part of the plot
so that I can call them out?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Like It reminds me of writing essays when I was
at UNI and teachers. What I realized now the lecturers
have must known instantly you've read twenty pages, and so
the whole essay, the whole essay would be what happened
in the first twenty pages. You might just talk about
the font when had said it was published in seventy eight.
That moved me enormously.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I'm very fond of the publisher, our book club let's
talk about our book club.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
What's its name? And let's start with that Boozing Bitching
book Club. Isn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
No, it's a BBBC. So the boozing bitching. Oh there's
another b we're missing.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Isn't that book?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Boozing Bitching book Club BBC? That's it BBBC, that's it?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Is it book? Well?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
That's interesting you say that, because the book sometimes is
the least important part of it, the boosion and the bitch.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And is the big bit. Yeah that I and we
are kind of corralled into having a discussion about the
book because we're catching up, we're having a glass of wine,
we're chatting about all kinds of things, and we sometimes
have to get corralled saying yeah, yeah, we're here to
go and talk about a.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Book, because we do. And I don't always go. It's
a Friday night once every six weeks weeks something like that,
and I can't always make that. But the book does
get discussed absolutely, and sometimes people turn up without having
read it, and nobody cares.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Nobody cares about nobody that says that they care about.
We're not going to do with survey, Anita, Let's not
do it and not it. It's not to my shame.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
There was once one of the books, I was three
quarters of the way through it and everyone and I said,
and I only realized afterwards, what a terrible thing to decay.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I said, Oh, don't talk about the ending.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And I wasn't even joking, because if you haven't read
the book, stiff shit. Yeah, sorry that you're going to
have to have it discussed. Yeah, and even you know,
then when I was on the receiving I said, please
don't discuss the ending. You know, you have to spoilers
going to a bound.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah. Absolutely. And and there's lots of times where i've
you know, I maybe have not read the book or
have been halfway through, and then we talk about the book,
and maybe that makes it, you know, helps me make
the decision about whether I read it or finish it.
So I don't know, I never mind when when there
are spoiler alerts.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And also the way our group works and everyone's is different.
We take it in turns hosting it, and if it's
your turn, you do the main meal, and you farm
out Nibley's desserts, salads, and someone else brings bread, and
everyone chocolates. Everyone brings booze. You always end up with
more booze at your house afterwards.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's lovely that it is such a
communal sense about it that everybody comes in and you know,
there's this amazing meal that is served, and we all just, yeah,
it is a very comfortable book club.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Having said that, yes it is. But sometimes when you're
the one having to provide the meal, that comes with
an added stress. My sister in law is part of
a book club and what they do is they meet
for cake and a glass of wine or a cup
of tea. So they meet after dinner because the dinner
adds a layer to it, doesn't it, which is part
of the fun. And for us, we eat before we
(17:21):
discuss the book. We were asking you our teacups on
our double a chattery page, how your book clubs work.
And there's a variety of how they happened, isn't there?
I thought that was really interesting. It's one said here
we stopped reading as we were too busy bringing wine
(17:41):
and drinking, and that worked well for us.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
This one was called she said.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Emily Costello says, my old book club was called Reading
between the lines. There was no pressure to read the book.
We mostly bitched about our partners, but then we all
went and moved and had babies and it dissolved.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
But it was joyous while it lasted. This one too.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
This is from Kathy Booth, who said in her book club,
they read whatever they want because often one of the
point of complaints was that people didn't like being dictated
to as to what to read. Whereas for me, I
like it because me too, it takes the choice out
of it exposes you to books she wouldn't normally know
all that kind of stuff. Kathy Booth has written here
(18:21):
that she loves her book club because they get to
read whatever they want. And that was a big source
of this, is that some people said they didn't like
book clubs because they didn't want to be told what
to read.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So everybody reads a different book and they come in
and they talk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, we have a rule to not share the story
rather why we like the author and the style of writing.
We refer to the characters in the storyline as it's
written on the back of the book, and so if
you're with ten other people, you get a sense of
ten other books or podcasts. Some people say, now we
talk about podcasts, audio books, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I really like that.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I quite like those being told what to read.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Me too, Me too, because there's I have a particular
you know, gen well, we both have a particular genre,
which is, you know, very porn, but you know, slash
dragon porn, dragon porn, and so it is kind of
nice sometimes to you know, expand from them just to
the porn. Yeah, it's called erotica. Sorry, I knew you'd
(19:21):
have a fancy name for I also love that there
are some people who buy a set of books instead
of Christmas presents for each other, and then they read
the books through the year. They all read the same one,
they all read the same ones through the year, discuss them,
and then they donate the books at the end of
(19:42):
the year. I thought that was quite a good night too,
to the library, to a local labrary, Yeah, which I
think is really nice. I really like that there's been
a proliferation of these little community.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Book what are they called little it's almost like a
book cupboard. It's a out dog park.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah. I think that that's a lovely idea. And I'll
often check in there to see if there's something interesting
in there, because you never know where your next street
is going to come from.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I thought i'd humiliate my children, and I was only joking.
But because I've written a book, I told the kids
I was going to put it down in the community
library that's down at the local dog park. They were horrified.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I would never, in a million years do that. I
would have gone down and just drawn a little mustache
on you.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
The nature has beaten into it, Anita. I like this
comment here from Angelo who said in her group, it's
best to have a limited settle in chat time at
the beginning, so they allow fifteen minutes to discuss the book,
and that way those that have to leave early can
whereas we all have dinner and drinks beforehand. Actually, have
(20:48):
you noticed, and this is a subset of a conversation
less of our book club, of drinking these days.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Have you noticed that?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, very much so. And I think that's the.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
New that's a new trend as well in women of
our aid, which maybe.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well part of it too, is that we're coming from
different many of us are coming from different communities now,
and so we are driving. And so if we're going
to drive, we're not going to drink. And unless we
choose to uber it and then yeah, but it's you're right.
But my question is, so the Angela is saying yes,
fifteen minutes, who enforces that? Like, this is the question
(21:21):
that I have. It's like who sets up these things? So,
because if this was a business, there would be often
a manager, a leader of somebody who is the one
that kind of creates the policies and procedures.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And that's an accepted level of authority.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, and for some of these I would imagine it
would be a a thankless task to go and organize it.
But b that there would I can imagine the amount
of you know, being pissed off saying, you're not the
boss of me. You can't tell me I have to
stop chatting at fifteen minutes, you know that. Yeah, so
(21:55):
it would be a very interesting process, and I can
see how book clubs can go about. I can see
that that you know, for some people, there's going to
be that equation about am I getting enough out of
this that you know, I can put up with people
being upset that I haven't read the book, or that
you know, I'm in forest to fifteen minutes of chat time,
(22:18):
or I.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Never get to pick the next book. Though it's kind
of all those emotional triggers of a feeling hurt. And
for many people the book, the chat isn't just about
the book, it's about the stories around it. And in
modern America, I can see why book clubs are exploding
because America is so fractured politically ideologically that if the
(22:41):
conversation gets a bit broader, like people can't have Thanksgiving
meals with their own families anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I read about a guy the other day who said
he found out that his mother had voted for Trump,
so he decided to release online all her most preciously
held recipes. It was a brilliant, massive, aggressive way of
punishing his mother. Wow, So this is how fractured.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, you can be. You'd have to be very careful
about the books because one of the books that we
read is that Demon Copper Demon Copperhead, Yeah, which was
a fantastic book but really really talks about how the
Appellation communities are just have just been devastated by the
(23:29):
opioid crisis.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Actually know what it was that book that helped me
understand Donald Trump getting elected the first time. Yes, because
all the factories had closed down and Donald Trump as
a showman looked at that and said, those blue collar
workers have no one representing them. He's certainly not representing
them now, but he saw a lack because Hillary Clinton
(23:51):
called them a basket of deplorables.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Remember all that? Absolutely, so yeah, so yeah, So I
would imagine that the choice of book would have to
be very considered because the alternative would be to get
again that feud. You know, those book clubs going bad, Amanda.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Some of our favorite books from our book club are
challenging and hard reads, aren't they. For all the other
ones we read in the midst of it, my favorites
have been that one and A Little.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Life, Oh same, absolutely, And I mean some of them,
like even the ones that haven't been you know, my taste.
At the end of the day, I've still appreciated reading them.
But there are some amazing books that I you know,
all of a sudden, I'm developing a real appreciation for
(24:43):
this particular author, and then I'll go on and read
more of his or her books. So, I mean, book
club has certainly done that for me. I really love
that there's a social element to it. I love that
we get to see each other in a bit of
a different light, you know, like I get to see,
you know, women having opinions about something, which often in
other social arenas we're not doing that as much. So
(25:06):
I really love that in a book club. I love
that there's a bit of structure. So yeah, I mean,
I really like a book club. You know. I think
that it's been a great addition to my life. And
I you know, I appreciate with your life as it is,
that you know, making it to our book clubs is
not you know, potentially currently on the cards, but it is.
(25:30):
It is something like I love seeing you there. I
love hearing your opinions about books. So it is just
a different side of you. This is what I love.
I was going to say the same about you.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Is that I'll read a book and then we'll discuss
it on our walk or at book club, and you'll
mention something I thought I never thought of that I
never saw it that way. And that's why a book
club is great. You can all read the same book,
but you'll all see different moments in it. Yeah, and
that's the beauty of it, isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And the and the shore today, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I don't I'm not brave enough to suggest we do
fairy porn at our book club.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Imagine, imagine.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think we have to pretend to be a bit
more literary than that occasionally.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You know what I've got to say in defense of
our hilarious reading preferences lately, Amanda, that the fairy porn,
the dragon porn, all of that stuff is such an
excellent escape from reality.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
And that's what they say, and for all it's brought
women back to reading. Yeah, because social media trolling, all
that trolling, scrolling, same thing, same thing, has taken people's
eye off the book ball. I'm mixing so many metaphors together,
keep up that. I think that it doesn't matter what
you're reading. If there's some form of escapism, there should
(26:55):
be no elitism around it.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And I have noticed that I have, like I am
a pro lific reader, quick created term, a very quick reader.
But I actually there was a while there, a couple
of years ago, where I was probably doing more social
media that kind of stuff, and I just thought, I'm
not enjoying my you know, my my free time as much.
(27:17):
And it was a real effort to get back into reading.
And so now I find that that seems to be
the competition for me. Is how much time do I
spend reading versus how much time do I spend on
social media? And I really like it where it's about
eighty percent reading and twenty percent social media rolling stuff. Yeah, trolling,
trolling absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well that's a that's a very high minded equation. I
don't know if i'd be that. And I read a
chapter and think I'll reward myself by looking at Instagram
or flicking through some I think.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Stop, stop, yeah, and it's there, really is a drag
towards towards the social media. So I maybe this is
the antidote to social media, is that that you know,
returned to reading and chatting of it and connecting in
that way.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well that's what people were saying about why the book
clubs became so popular during COVID as well, Because we're
just in our own heads, on our own phones, iPads, whatever.
This was a way of lifting your head and looking
out a little bit.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Good for us a man, good for us to show off.
I know, well, you know what I used to do.
I used to go and read. I had to read
so much for like just technical books you know about
you know, the work that I do. And then and
then I once I kind of got out of school.
I kind of said, oh, I'm going to read one
professional book and then one, you know book for fun.
(28:36):
And I did that for years, and I actually found
that that was just such a lovely balance for me.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
You're still reading textbooks I do, I do, I do,
I do.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You know, just kind of more not not always like
technical books about you know, implementing something, but it might
be a leadership book, or it might be a book
on you know, implementing change or you know that kind
of thing. So you know, things that are are are
kind of current in my work kind of stuff. So
(29:08):
it's I really find I know that you kind of
like you don't.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Like the I can't read anything that's not a novel. Yeah,
I don't like biographies. I don't like I get my
fact in fiction confused. I don't like I don't like
real things.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
A need a.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yes, I find it very hard to read actual books
that aren't novels.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, But I mean I think we all have our chase, Like,
I don't like biographies much at all, but I do
like you know, but other than that, my my reading, well,
I've got.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
An autobiography at home that might you can find it
down at my local dog park.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I've got mine. It's got a little mustache on. That's
the one. That's the one.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
At this part of the pod, as we like to
do our glimmers. And in case you're a new double
a chattery tea cup, how do you describe a glimmer, Anita?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
A glimmer is the opposite of a trigger. So you know,
we can walk through our worlds just being looking at
all the things that make us sad or frustrated or angry.
But instead of that, we can actually look for the
things that are joyous in our life, those little moments,
and those are the glimmers in our lives. And if
we actually I think that you and I have talked
about this a lot, is that if we can actually
(30:30):
have a focus on the things that bring us joy
and that we can actually make that a habit, that's
that's a that's a wonderful thing. So we end every
little podcast with a little glimmer. Why don't you go first?
I will I? So this week? Last week, I guess
it would be last week, now, wouldn't it? Let me
(30:51):
try that again? Why don't you go first? Okay, so
last week, Amanda, I progressed in my PhD by completing
what's called a candidature. So this is a big paper
that I had to write that outlines the studies that
(31:12):
I'm doing for my PhD. And it goes out to
the head of school and a couple of other academics
and they read this paper and then I do a
presentation and they grill me for like it's a two
hour process. It's a big process. It did it involve
interpretive dance in a bikini section? I was? I was
(31:35):
actually at some point because when I began it there
was some technical issues about getting the slides going. Oh
my presidentay, oh my god, I tell you that was
a sweat moment.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
But I got through it.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
It went really well, and I just it was a
glimmer in that it felt like, you know that I've
jumped that hoop, and it was a really it's a
beautiful hoop for me because I'm not doing my PhD
for anything other than the pure pleasure of it, which
kind of doesn't sound right because PhDs or anything but
(32:09):
pleasurable in general. But I've really enjoyed the process because
I think and I'm doing it at a time in
my career where I actually think I can contribute something
to the to my profession. So I'm really yeah, it
was a lovely It was a lovely moment.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
When does a PhD wrap up? Is it like how
long is a piece of string?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
In some ways, it's how long is a piece of string?
You know, because there's ethics applications, and there's studies, and
there's publications, and there's you know, who cares about that stuff?
That it is. It's a it's a process. It'll probably
be another three years.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And then are you a doctor McGregor?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I will make you call me that, Amanda.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And when you're on a plane and they say is
there a doctor, do you say I can help?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Oh? Absolutely yes. Well is this a time that I
bring up that that fantasy that I had? What's that? Oh?
When I was in my late thirties, I was like,
I told my husband that I had this fantasy that
we were in an airport and that sixty fantasy. Well, no,
it's not. But on the that there was going to
(33:12):
be an announcement at the airport saying is there a
psychologist in the airport? And I put my hand up
and then I had to go off on a helicopter
somewhere important to do some some amazing thing, right, So
of course my husband told the entire family about this
so that they could laugh their asses off. And then
for my fortieth birthday, they went and got me a
(33:34):
helicopter trip at in National Park. Beautiful, beautiful place, and
so at end I made the helicopter pilot announce like
is there a psychologist in the place? And then I
got to go and you know, see the it was beautiful,
It was a beautiful is it everything you wanted it
to do? Everything? Amanda? You know, sometimes it's really good
(33:55):
to have those moments, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
That's I've got that imagine today though, as a psychologist
in the house because everyone needs one.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I know, you'd be far too busy. Don't announce it.
Don't announce it, I know, And I went to the
White House, that's right. Oh my gosh. No, I only
take on hopeful pieces anyway. Anyway, tell me about your deliver.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Well, this is more something that I was reading as
we were thinking about book clubs, and I thought I'll
bring it to the table as a glimmer because I
think this would be interesting. It's a forcing party where
this woman had a group of friends and they all
had to nominate something that they didn't get to do
that they should have done, and they came together and
(34:41):
they forced each other to do it. One was finish
your taxes. One was start a website. What was another one?
I think it was finishing a sewing project. These were
things that you procrastinate about that sit badly with you.
So it's not like you've forgotten about them. They ruminate
with you like a loose tooth. And everyone came together
(35:02):
and as a group they solved them all.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
They did them all. So this is kind of like,
I'm accountable to the group for doing this.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I'm going to bring something to the table that has
been gnawing at me that I can't do, and someone
else will say, what is it, I'll help you with it.
So between the skill set of the group, partly it's
sometimes it's skill set. Partly you can't be bothered finishing something.
Partly you hate paperwork, that's my thing. So it's a
support in the accountability for me. It would be the
accountability that I you know that I would feel as though,
(35:32):
oh God, I'm beholden to these people. Now.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I said I was going to do it, yes, and
now that's right, or else in the process.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
They sometimes the projects got done when they're all together,
but sometimes you went home with a structure as to
how to do it. But of course what you're giving
your friends is a lightness of feeling you lift the
anvil from their hands.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Oh, I like that. So I used to do when
I was at university. There was a bunch of us
who we were accountable to each other for exercising and
it was I think you had to do three times
a week for at least half an hour, and for
every time you didn't do it, you had to put
ten dollars into a kitty. And we were like poor
(36:14):
students at that time. And at the end of the year,
half of the money went to a charity that we
didn't particularly like, meaning you didn't want to contribute it
we wouldn't have contributed to normally. And that's a nice twist. Yeah,
and half of it we went out for a lunch
with so wow.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, that's a very interesting incentive.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Now we didn't like. It wasn't like we're going to
go and support the Nazi Party.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
It wasn't not that, but it was planed support.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
But it was maybe, you know, supporting something that normally
we would have just passed by, so it was an
interesting thing.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I like this.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I don't like the name forcing parties yeah, and the
lifting party yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yes. The accountability that sounds like accounting. It does sounds hard.
It sounds hard too, No, but I like the idea.
We're gonna have to find teacups give us an idea. Yes, teacups,
please join in.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
If there's anything that we've said that has intrigued you, pricked,
a memory, a suggestion, anything we love, love love to hear.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
That would be great.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And Anita, mm hmmm, I'll see you an next plain
see it
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