October 22, 2024 • 16 mins
Paediatric Dietician Karina Savage, founder of Nourishing Kids, chats with Justin about gut microbiome, sharing practical tips for parents on creating a healthy eating environment for children.
In this episode:
- Good bugs, bad bugs - gut bacteria
- Symbiosis/dysbiosis & immunity
- Fussy eating
- Leaky gut
- Probiotics & prebiotics (fibre)
- Force creates resistance (or anxiety)
- Nourish With Karina
- The Easy Feed Podcast with Karina Savage (Paediatric Dietician)
Related Links:
- How do I Get My Child to Eat Healthy Food Without the Power Struggles?
- #1101 – Fussy to Healthy Eaters With Karina Savage
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's the Happy Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
wants answers now.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Last week on the Happy Families Podcast, I had a
fascinating and really delightful conversation with Karina Savage. Karina is
a pediatric dietitian. She runs Nourishing Kids. You can find
her at Nourish with Karina dot com. Linked to that
in the show notes. But we almost talked about something
that I have always wanted to know about. I've nearly
bought several books about it, but I just I'm not
(00:35):
a dietitian and I don't really want to spend ten
hours and two hundred and fifty pages reading about it.
I just want somebody to give me the facts, especially
as it relates to kids. And Karina said she'd come
back and do that, and so this podcast really for me.
I'm being a little bit selfish, but we'll make it
about parenting. We'll make it about kids as well. But
really I just want to know about this gut byome
thing because I've been told if I have a healthy
(00:56):
guard then I'm gonna, i don't know, do better in
life or something. I don't really get it. I think
I'm going to sleep better, or my brain's going to
work better, I'll have more energy. I don't get it.
I don't even know what my gut biome is. Karina
Savage is going to help me with that. Karina, thanks
for joining me today again.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Pleasure so great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So you've been a pediatric dietitian for twenty three years
and when I mentioned gut biome stuff, your eyes lit
up and you said, oh my goodness, We've got to
talk about that, And of course we got too busy
talking about other things. If I'm brand new to this idea,
I haven't even heard the word. Or maybe I've heard
people talk about having a healthy gut, but I don't
really get what this biome thing is. In other words,
(01:33):
if my name is Justin cole Someoni, I'm now talking
to a dietician about it, give us the like the
thirty second reader's digest version of it. What is the
gut biome?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So, the gut biome or the gut microbiome is really
to do with the bacterial communities in your gut.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
This is the whole proboi its sort of thing. Is
that what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yees? So it's to do with the bacteria in your gut,
because we have a lot of bacteria in our gut,
like gazillions affect AGAP and what we want is we
want a really good balance of the good bugs and
the bad bugs in our guts.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So that so we want bad bugs in our gut,
a balance, Yes, we.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Want a balance, yeah mostly, but we want that balance
because you really need. It's what we call symbiosis, where
there's a balance of the good and the bad bugs
and everything is in balance, everything is in I guess well,
the terminology is symbiosis. So it's a dis biosis when
we have an imbalance of the good bugs and the
(02:32):
bad bugs, when more of the bad bugs are populating
and growing, and a poor diet will contribute to that.
But there are many factors that influence our gut microbiome
and we try to rectify it by taking probiotics to
put more of the good bugs in. There as many factors.
So right from when you're in utero is when your
(02:52):
gut microbiome starts developing and we are influenced by multiple
factors to do with our mother in utero then and
we are born. Our motive delivery impacts. I got microbiome.
I've heard.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I've heard about this. So if you're if you're if
you're a Caesar baby versus a vaginal birth baby, your
biome changes, like you have a different micro biome depending
on how you're actually born.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Correct, So when you're born vaginally, you pick up microbes
associated with your mother down that end, and then when
you're born abbat sun route you pick up microbes associated
with the skin and the hospital environment. And there's been
a lot of research into this and then linked to
(03:36):
increased risk of allergies, obesity and whatnot with the different
modive delivery.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And now that we're not that we're.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Trying to shame any parents who have had a Caesar
because sometimes you're just going to baby and you turn
it out fine, right, Wow, When I have these conversations
or not about this, but about these kinds of topics,
a lot of people will there's shame and guilt around.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
All the sort of stuff. We're not, We're just we're
just hollowing. There's risks associated one thing that don't exist
with the other thing that's not We're not throwing shaded anyway.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Absolutely, And yes, sorry, I was going to say at
the end of the day, the most important thing is
the baby's born healthy. Right, So, like you know, there's
absolutely no guilt of shame. Korea.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Tell me this, What are the benefits to having a symbiotic?
Here we go, I'm using all my big words and
I just love it. What are the benefits of having
a symbiotic gut microbiome.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, so when you've got a symbio, a healthy gut microbiome,
your immune system is working much better. Because most of
our immune system, about seventy percent of our immune system,
is actually in the gastro intestinal tract. So what we
want is we want our cells in our gut to
have tight cell junctions. We want a thick mucus layer,
and that helps protect all the baddies. So when we eat,
(04:46):
you know what we eat food, we breathe and we
get exposed to viruses and bugs all the time. But
what happens is they go into our gut. Our immune
system works, it keeps them out. We poo them out again. Right,
it's when we've got a loose cell junctions, we get
a leaky gut. When I'm because is not thick and
protecting our our body as it should. Be that's when
we're more prone to getting sick. And so that's why
(05:09):
we need a strong gut micro and we need strong
gut health because that's most of where our immune system
is now. Our microbes also are like messengers, so when
they metabolize food, they also produce messages and metabolized and
that impacts there's a gut brain axis. It impacts so
many parts about health.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
All right, this is fascinating to me. I have seventy
three questions for you based on what you just said.
Let's go bit by bit something that I've noticed. I'm
just a person who I only get sick once or
twice a year. It's usually because I'm run down, it's
because I'm exhausted. But I've witnessed I've watched friends of
the family or whatever over the years, and they're always sick.
(05:47):
The kids are always sick people. And so what I'm
hearing you say is much of this could be linked
to gut biome health, which therefore is linked to the
way we're eating. And that's the fundamental if we get
our diet right. And my diet is not fabulous, but
it's let me rephrase, I've actually got a pretty good diet,
but I chuck a bit of bad food in there
(06:08):
with all the good stuff. Yeah, but if somebody is
not getting all the good stuff, then they're throwing their
gut out of balance. It's no longer symbiotic. It's what
did you say, ds biotic dysbiotic?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, imbalance right? Done? Well, Well, I'm trying to be
a quick learner here. So how do we get a
healthy gut? How do we get our gut healthy so
that we can not get crook every time somebody sneezes
near us?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah? So, as I said, those first three years are
pretty influential in setting up a really healthy immune system
that effectively puts a health stamp on us. But then
from then on healthy diet, basically using probotics if needed.
I use probiotics in certain cases, especially in the allergy world.
(06:55):
I've got lots of kids with allergies. But it's about
plant foods.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Is it.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
The end of the day, you'll hear this word probiotics.
It's the sexy name for fiber. Okay. So plant foods
feed the gut bugs and they populate the good bugs
in our gut. That's really what we need. Junk food
will populate the bad bugs. If we're not feeding fiber
into our gut, then our gut bugs aren't fed, and
(07:20):
then they actually turn on the on our own mucouslayer
and net gut, and that's when it becomes catchy.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So we need fiber.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
We need plant foods, So plenty of wholesome fruits, vegebles
and ut seeds, grainy carps, blakis, baked beans, you know,
all of those foods. Oh it's porridge. Putting fiber into
our gut feeds the good bugs and that in turn
keeps our immune systems strong.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I'm hearing you say this and my brain is exploding
because an orange day. I know everyone says an apple
a day keeps the doctor away, but for me, it's
an orange whenever the kids are sick, whenever the kids
have it like a mouth ulcer or a headache or anything.
I'm like, if you just have an orange every day,
you'll be okay. And what I'm hearing you really say
is the orange provides all this fiber, which healthy is
up the microbiome in the dart makes it more symbiotic,
(08:04):
makes it more healthy, and that works. Let me ask
you this. I'm thinking as you're talking about this lack
of health from too much bad food. Inflammation is a
word that popped into my head as you were talking
about this. To what extent do we see inflammation as
(08:29):
a result of a poor biome? Am I in the
right ballpark here? Or is this a totally different thing?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah? So no, Again, poor diet influences with gut microbes
and then that drives inflammation. So poor diet can also
directly impact on inflammation. So high sugar, high food chemicals,
it's all related, absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So my sense therefore is that if we can get
more fiber into our kids' diets and into our own diets,
we're going to be healthier. We're going to do better
at school or better at work, to be more energetic,
we're going to sleep better, we're going to have better
immune function. Like, there's no downsides, it's only upside if
we can get that fiber in, which brings me the
big challenging question. I know we sort of touched on
(09:11):
this a bit last week, but as a parent who
has a couple of kids who aren't really big on
eating all of the green leafy vegetables or any vegetables
at all, really and they just like the beige diet.
How do you get that fiber into them? How do
you get them to take that on? I mean, I
know there's hiding food in the lasagna. You can grate
up the zucchini and the carrot and stick in the lasagna,
(09:33):
but they're not getting a lot of zucchini when they're
eating it graded up in the lasagna. So how do
we do this? I mean, one of my kids, when
we have wraps, she'll have a little bit of meat,
complains about it. She takes all the beans out of
it that we put in there, and then she'll have
cheese and pineapple on a white wrap. Okay, And I'm like,
(09:54):
you've gotta have something green, and so she'll put a
spinach leaf on there. Yeah, yeah, that's right. It'll be
this the smallest little piece of green, which she's like,
I've got green. I'm like, du on, that is not
and what I'm hearing you say. If I had the
language for it, I would say that is not feeding
the good, the good pre biomedic, I've for gotten the
(10:15):
words good bugs, good bugs in your gut. That's right,
it's not doing that. So how do we do this?
How do we get them to put the good food
on the wrap. How do we get them to get
the fiber into their body so that they're eating that
food that makes their gut healthy.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Well, first of all, I'd say we need to focus
on small changes done consistently, because over time it will
make a big difference. So I encourage parents to offer
six times a day, whatever they're eating, put a little
bit of color next to it. So next to breakfast,
put a couple of blueberries. Next to their morning tea,
put something that's plant or you know, food or edgeable related,
(10:51):
and not often it's in the lunch box. And often
at schools they do like a crunch and they put
something like that brain break fruit break in their lunch box.
Or if they're at home having a cheese toasty, put
a jerry tomato and a tidy bit of carrot next
to their lunch so they become used to seeing color.
Same with afternoon teat, same with dinner, same with supper.
Making it fun is a good one. Dressing vegetables so
(11:12):
they taste good. I don't mind the mayonnaise lemon and
lemon and olive oil is gray and brocoli. If you
have to put a bit of salt on it doesn't
matter because if it gets them enjoying food, then that's
that's a wind and then you can always pull back
on the salt later. So I think making food fun tasty,
offering it throughout the day is an important one.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You just reminded me. One thing that she will eat
is we get kale, and I can't remember what we
do with it. I think that we sort of shake
it up a little bit of oil or something, just
drizzle it with some oil. Then we stick in the
oven and we create kale chips. Yeah, loves that. Loves that.
Maybe we've just got to do more kale chips and
that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Absolutely, So focus on the positives. I'm like, focus on
what they are eating and build on that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So even if it's fried in the oven with a
bit of oil or baked in the oven with a
bit of oil whatever and a bit of salt, you're
still saying that they get that fiber into them than
not even if it's got absolutely yeah interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Okay, extraversion olive oil I think is liquid gold. Like
it's amazing. So use as much as that there's no
low fat here, like you're using good fats.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, got it. I love this all right. Something you
said earlier, Karina, is that the first three years is
where the foundations of good gut health are layed. Now,
for many of us, we've already got kids that are
well beyond those first three years, but there are a
lot of podcast listeners who are definitely in that phase
where they've got kids who are I mean, in the
first three years. There's a lot less fussiness, right, kids
kind of almost eat whatever you stick on the high
(12:33):
chair tray. What can parents do with their little kids?
We know that there's some things that you've got little
saying okay, sometimes you try to breastfeed, but you don't
produce milk, or there's breastfeeding challenges. Obviously, whether it's a
caesar or a natural birth. Sometimes there's limited control over
what's going on there. But once the child's in the
(12:53):
world and you've got some control over the diet, the
food's going in their mouth, what do you do there?
Is it again just about trying to stuff them full
of fruit and veggies? Do you throw olives on the
tray and hope that they stick one of those in
their mouth and like it? How do you make this work.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
So I encourage parents to give little ones as much
variety as possible in a non pressurized way. So throw
lots of variety at them when they're young, and let
them explore, let them get their fingers in it, let
them smush it all over their face, and not by
the I'm talking about like a ten twelve month old.
Let them explore food with all of their senses, because
that's how they develop and build that familiarity and trust
(13:31):
in the food, and then they learn to like these
foods over time. You've got this early window of opportunity
to really expose them to the world in a non
pressurized way. Let them eat as much as they want,
and be okay if they don't want it, because kids
have an inate ability to self regulate their appetite and
eat to what they need. So it's about us providing
a really positive environment with lots of exposure to all
these lovely fruits and vegetables and you know, bowls of
(13:54):
porridge or wheat pis, but not pressuring them to eat it.
Just let them enjoy and learn about this food because
they will then come to like these foods if offered
in a non pressurized, fun way.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad that you mentioned control. It's
such an important factor here. The more the more you
push force creates resistance.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah. Absolutely, And that's something that we as parents find
really hard because we value nutrition, we value helth. A
lot of the parents that I work with inside nourishing Kids,
you know, they're worried about their child not getting enough
nutrition because they know we're always told that our kids
need good food. But it's like, what how do we
make that happen? And that's that's where I come in
(14:33):
to say, like, this is how we set up a
healthy feeding environment for a toddler, This is how we
set up a feeding environment for a fussy eat out,
because we just need to remember that kids will learn
to like these foods. We just need to set up
really non pressurized way because if we create anxiety at
the in the high chair, at the dinner table, the
walls go up, and then we've lost that ability to
(14:55):
for that meal time for them to explore food, and
we lose that connection time as a family too, because
connecting at dinner time is really valuable and it's something
that we really need to cherish and try and bring back.
Not enough families are connecting at the dinner table these days.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Karina Savage is a pediatric dietitian. She's been doing it
for a few a couple of decades. I nearly aged
you more than I should have a bit of it
self indulgent today trying to learn about this gut microbiome.
But I've learned a lot today. Thank you for being
patient with me. Karina lives in Sydney with her husband
and two kids, and is the founder of Nourishing Kids,
where she helps parents create healthy eaters stress free. Karina
(15:34):
as a regular on National Warning TV on Sunrise and
seven and also has her own podcast. You can check
it out at the easy Feed. We will link to
the easy Feed. We'll also linked to Nourishing Kids and
Nourish with Karina dot com. Karina really appreciate generosity and
sharing your time and expertise. Again, Hopefully this has been
well and it's been helpful for me. Hopefully it's been
helpful for a bunch of parents who are listening. Pleasure.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
The Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from
Bridge Media. More info in the show notes. If you'd
like to figure out how you can get your kids,
improving their gut health with Karina and the work that
she does at Nourishing Kids. And more information about making
your family happier is available at happy families dot com
dot u or check out our social pages. Dr Justin
Colson's Happy Families on Facebook and Instagram.
It's the Happy Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
wants answers now.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Last week on the Happy Families Podcast, I had a
fascinating and really delightful conversation with Karina Savage. Karina is
a pediatric dietitian. She runs Nourishing Kids. You can find
her at Nourish with Karina dot com. Linked to that
in the show notes. But we almost talked about something
that I have always wanted to know about. I've nearly
bought several books about it, but I just I'm not
(00:35):
a dietitian and I don't really want to spend ten
hours and two hundred and fifty pages reading about it.
I just want somebody to give me the facts, especially
as it relates to kids. And Karina said she'd come
back and do that, and so this podcast really for me.
I'm being a little bit selfish, but we'll make it
about parenting. We'll make it about kids as well. But
really I just want to know about this gut byome
thing because I've been told if I have a healthy
(00:56):
guard then I'm gonna, i don't know, do better in
life or something. I don't really get it. I think
I'm going to sleep better, or my brain's going to
work better, I'll have more energy. I don't get it.
I don't even know what my gut biome is. Karina
Savage is going to help me with that. Karina, thanks
for joining me today again.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Pleasure so great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So you've been a pediatric dietitian for twenty three years
and when I mentioned gut biome stuff, your eyes lit
up and you said, oh my goodness, We've got to
talk about that, And of course we got too busy
talking about other things. If I'm brand new to this idea,
I haven't even heard the word. Or maybe I've heard
people talk about having a healthy gut, but I don't
really get what this biome thing is. In other words,
(01:33):
if my name is Justin cole Someoni, I'm now talking
to a dietician about it, give us the like the
thirty second reader's digest version of it. What is the
gut biome?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So, the gut biome or the gut microbiome is really
to do with the bacterial communities in your gut.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
This is the whole proboi its sort of thing. Is
that what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yees? So it's to do with the bacteria in your gut,
because we have a lot of bacteria in our gut,
like gazillions affect AGAP and what we want is we
want a really good balance of the good bugs and
the bad bugs in our guts.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So that so we want bad bugs in our gut,
a balance, Yes, we.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Want a balance, yeah mostly, but we want that balance
because you really need. It's what we call symbiosis, where
there's a balance of the good and the bad bugs
and everything is in balance, everything is in I guess well,
the terminology is symbiosis. So it's a dis biosis when
we have an imbalance of the good bugs and the
(02:32):
bad bugs, when more of the bad bugs are populating
and growing, and a poor diet will contribute to that.
But there are many factors that influence our gut microbiome
and we try to rectify it by taking probiotics to
put more of the good bugs in. There as many factors.
So right from when you're in utero is when your
(02:52):
gut microbiome starts developing and we are influenced by multiple
factors to do with our mother in utero then and
we are born. Our motive delivery impacts. I got microbiome.
I've heard.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I've heard about this. So if you're if you're if
you're a Caesar baby versus a vaginal birth baby, your
biome changes, like you have a different micro biome depending
on how you're actually born.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Correct, So when you're born vaginally, you pick up microbes
associated with your mother down that end, and then when
you're born abbat sun route you pick up microbes associated
with the skin and the hospital environment. And there's been
a lot of research into this and then linked to
(03:36):
increased risk of allergies, obesity and whatnot with the different
modive delivery.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And now that we're not that we're.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Trying to shame any parents who have had a Caesar
because sometimes you're just going to baby and you turn
it out fine, right, Wow, When I have these conversations
or not about this, but about these kinds of topics,
a lot of people will there's shame and guilt around.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
All the sort of stuff. We're not, We're just we're
just hollowing. There's risks associated one thing that don't exist
with the other thing that's not We're not throwing shaded anyway.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Absolutely, And yes, sorry, I was going to say at
the end of the day, the most important thing is
the baby's born healthy. Right, So, like you know, there's
absolutely no guilt of shame. Korea.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Tell me this, What are the benefits to having a symbiotic?
Here we go, I'm using all my big words and
I just love it. What are the benefits of having
a symbiotic gut microbiome.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, so when you've got a symbio, a healthy gut microbiome,
your immune system is working much better. Because most of
our immune system, about seventy percent of our immune system,
is actually in the gastro intestinal tract. So what we
want is we want our cells in our gut to
have tight cell junctions. We want a thick mucus layer,
and that helps protect all the baddies. So when we eat,
(04:46):
you know what we eat food, we breathe and we
get exposed to viruses and bugs all the time. But
what happens is they go into our gut. Our immune
system works, it keeps them out. We poo them out again. Right,
it's when we've got a loose cell junctions, we get
a leaky gut. When I'm because is not thick and
protecting our our body as it should. Be that's when
we're more prone to getting sick. And so that's why
(05:09):
we need a strong gut micro and we need strong
gut health because that's most of where our immune system
is now. Our microbes also are like messengers, so when
they metabolize food, they also produce messages and metabolized and
that impacts there's a gut brain axis. It impacts so
many parts about health.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
All right, this is fascinating to me. I have seventy
three questions for you based on what you just said.
Let's go bit by bit something that I've noticed. I'm
just a person who I only get sick once or
twice a year. It's usually because I'm run down, it's
because I'm exhausted. But I've witnessed I've watched friends of
the family or whatever over the years, and they're always sick.
(05:47):
The kids are always sick people. And so what I'm
hearing you say is much of this could be linked
to gut biome health, which therefore is linked to the
way we're eating. And that's the fundamental if we get
our diet right. And my diet is not fabulous, but
it's let me rephrase, I've actually got a pretty good diet,
but I chuck a bit of bad food in there
(06:08):
with all the good stuff. Yeah, but if somebody is
not getting all the good stuff, then they're throwing their
gut out of balance. It's no longer symbiotic. It's what
did you say, ds biotic dysbiotic?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, imbalance right? Done? Well, Well, I'm trying to be
a quick learner here. So how do we get a
healthy gut? How do we get our gut healthy so
that we can not get crook every time somebody sneezes
near us?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah? So, as I said, those first three years are
pretty influential in setting up a really healthy immune system
that effectively puts a health stamp on us. But then
from then on healthy diet, basically using probotics if needed.
I use probiotics in certain cases, especially in the allergy world.
(06:55):
I've got lots of kids with allergies. But it's about
plant foods.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Is it.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
The end of the day, you'll hear this word probiotics.
It's the sexy name for fiber. Okay. So plant foods
feed the gut bugs and they populate the good bugs
in our gut. That's really what we need. Junk food
will populate the bad bugs. If we're not feeding fiber
into our gut, then our gut bugs aren't fed, and
(07:20):
then they actually turn on the on our own mucouslayer
and net gut, and that's when it becomes catchy.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So we need fiber.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
We need plant foods, So plenty of wholesome fruits, vegebles
and ut seeds, grainy carps, blakis, baked beans, you know,
all of those foods. Oh it's porridge. Putting fiber into
our gut feeds the good bugs and that in turn
keeps our immune systems strong.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
I'm hearing you say this and my brain is exploding
because an orange day. I know everyone says an apple
a day keeps the doctor away, but for me, it's
an orange whenever the kids are sick, whenever the kids
have it like a mouth ulcer or a headache or anything.
I'm like, if you just have an orange every day,
you'll be okay. And what I'm hearing you really say
is the orange provides all this fiber, which healthy is
up the microbiome in the dart makes it more symbiotic,
(08:04):
makes it more healthy, and that works. Let me ask
you this. I'm thinking as you're talking about this lack
of health from too much bad food. Inflammation is a
word that popped into my head as you were talking
about this. To what extent do we see inflammation as
(08:29):
a result of a poor biome? Am I in the
right ballpark here? Or is this a totally different thing?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah? So no, Again, poor diet influences with gut microbes
and then that drives inflammation. So poor diet can also
directly impact on inflammation. So high sugar, high food chemicals,
it's all related, absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So my sense therefore is that if we can get
more fiber into our kids' diets and into our own diets,
we're going to be healthier. We're going to do better
at school or better at work, to be more energetic,
we're going to sleep better, we're going to have better
immune function. Like, there's no downsides, it's only upside if
we can get that fiber in, which brings me the
big challenging question. I know we sort of touched on
(09:11):
this a bit last week, but as a parent who
has a couple of kids who aren't really big on
eating all of the green leafy vegetables or any vegetables
at all, really and they just like the beige diet.
How do you get that fiber into them? How do
you get them to take that on? I mean, I
know there's hiding food in the lasagna. You can grate
up the zucchini and the carrot and stick in the lasagna,
(09:33):
but they're not getting a lot of zucchini when they're
eating it graded up in the lasagna. So how do
we do this? I mean, one of my kids, when
we have wraps, she'll have a little bit of meat,
complains about it. She takes all the beans out of
it that we put in there, and then she'll have
cheese and pineapple on a white wrap. Okay, And I'm like,
(09:54):
you've gotta have something green, and so she'll put a
spinach leaf on there. Yeah, yeah, that's right. It'll be
this the smallest little piece of green, which she's like,
I've got green. I'm like, du on, that is not
and what I'm hearing you say. If I had the
language for it, I would say that is not feeding
the good, the good pre biomedic, I've for gotten the
(10:15):
words good bugs, good bugs in your gut. That's right,
it's not doing that. So how do we do this?
How do we get them to put the good food
on the wrap. How do we get them to get
the fiber into their body so that they're eating that
food that makes their gut healthy.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Well, first of all, I'd say we need to focus
on small changes done consistently, because over time it will
make a big difference. So I encourage parents to offer
six times a day, whatever they're eating, put a little
bit of color next to it. So next to breakfast,
put a couple of blueberries. Next to their morning tea,
put something that's plant or you know, food or edgeable related,
(10:51):
and not often it's in the lunch box. And often
at schools they do like a crunch and they put
something like that brain break fruit break in their lunch box.
Or if they're at home having a cheese toasty, put
a jerry tomato and a tidy bit of carrot next
to their lunch so they become used to seeing color.
Same with afternoon teat, same with dinner, same with supper.
Making it fun is a good one. Dressing vegetables so
(11:12):
they taste good. I don't mind the mayonnaise lemon and
lemon and olive oil is gray and brocoli. If you
have to put a bit of salt on it doesn't
matter because if it gets them enjoying food, then that's
that's a wind and then you can always pull back
on the salt later. So I think making food fun tasty,
offering it throughout the day is an important one.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You just reminded me. One thing that she will eat
is we get kale, and I can't remember what we
do with it. I think that we sort of shake
it up a little bit of oil or something, just
drizzle it with some oil. Then we stick in the
oven and we create kale chips. Yeah, loves that. Loves that.
Maybe we've just got to do more kale chips and
that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Absolutely, So focus on the positives. I'm like, focus on
what they are eating and build on that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So even if it's fried in the oven with a
bit of oil or baked in the oven with a
bit of oil whatever and a bit of salt, you're
still saying that they get that fiber into them than
not even if it's got absolutely yeah interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Okay, extraversion olive oil I think is liquid gold. Like
it's amazing. So use as much as that there's no
low fat here, like you're using good fats.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, got it. I love this all right. Something you
said earlier, Karina, is that the first three years is
where the foundations of good gut health are layed. Now,
for many of us, we've already got kids that are
well beyond those first three years, but there are a
lot of podcast listeners who are definitely in that phase
where they've got kids who are I mean, in the
first three years. There's a lot less fussiness, right, kids
kind of almost eat whatever you stick on the high
(12:33):
chair tray. What can parents do with their little kids?
We know that there's some things that you've got little
saying okay, sometimes you try to breastfeed, but you don't
produce milk, or there's breastfeeding challenges. Obviously, whether it's a
caesar or a natural birth. Sometimes there's limited control over
what's going on there. But once the child's in the
(12:53):
world and you've got some control over the diet, the
food's going in their mouth, what do you do there?
Is it again just about trying to stuff them full
of fruit and veggies? Do you throw olives on the
tray and hope that they stick one of those in
their mouth and like it? How do you make this work.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
So I encourage parents to give little ones as much
variety as possible in a non pressurized way. So throw
lots of variety at them when they're young, and let
them explore, let them get their fingers in it, let
them smush it all over their face, and not by
the I'm talking about like a ten twelve month old.
Let them explore food with all of their senses, because
that's how they develop and build that familiarity and trust
(13:31):
in the food, and then they learn to like these
foods over time. You've got this early window of opportunity
to really expose them to the world in a non
pressurized way. Let them eat as much as they want,
and be okay if they don't want it, because kids
have an inate ability to self regulate their appetite and
eat to what they need. So it's about us providing
a really positive environment with lots of exposure to all
these lovely fruits and vegetables and you know, bowls of
(13:54):
porridge or wheat pis, but not pressuring them to eat it.
Just let them enjoy and learn about this food because
they will then come to like these foods if offered
in a non pressurized, fun way.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad that you mentioned control. It's
such an important factor here. The more the more you
push force creates resistance.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah. Absolutely, And that's something that we as parents find
really hard because we value nutrition, we value helth. A
lot of the parents that I work with inside nourishing Kids,
you know, they're worried about their child not getting enough
nutrition because they know we're always told that our kids
need good food. But it's like, what how do we
make that happen? And that's that's where I come in
(14:33):
to say, like, this is how we set up a
healthy feeding environment for a toddler, This is how we
set up a feeding environment for a fussy eat out,
because we just need to remember that kids will learn
to like these foods. We just need to set up
really non pressurized way because if we create anxiety at
the in the high chair, at the dinner table, the
walls go up, and then we've lost that ability to
(14:55):
for that meal time for them to explore food, and
we lose that connection time as a family too, because
connecting at dinner time is really valuable and it's something
that we really need to cherish and try and bring back.
Not enough families are connecting at the dinner table these days.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Karina Savage is a pediatric dietitian. She's been doing it
for a few a couple of decades. I nearly aged
you more than I should have a bit of it
self indulgent today trying to learn about this gut microbiome.
But I've learned a lot today. Thank you for being
patient with me. Karina lives in Sydney with her husband
and two kids, and is the founder of Nourishing Kids,
where she helps parents create healthy eaters stress free. Karina
(15:34):
as a regular on National Warning TV on Sunrise and
seven and also has her own podcast. You can check
it out at the easy Feed. We will link to
the easy Feed. We'll also linked to Nourishing Kids and
Nourish with Karina dot com. Karina really appreciate generosity and
sharing your time and expertise. Again, Hopefully this has been
well and it's been helpful for me. Hopefully it's been
helpful for a bunch of parents who are listening. Pleasure.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
The Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from
Bridge Media. More info in the show notes. If you'd
like to figure out how you can get your kids,
improving their gut health with Karina and the work that
she does at Nourishing Kids. And more information about making
your family happier is available at happy families dot com
dot u or check out our social pages. Dr Justin
Colson's Happy Families on Facebook and Instagram.
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