January 14, 2025 • 17 mins
Emma McKeon, with 14 Olympic medals, knows what it takes to excel without burning out—and she credits her parents for getting the balance just right. In this episode, we dive into Emma’s upbringing to uncover strategies for encouraging kids to pursue their passions with joy and self-determination. From transforming performance anxiety into a secret weapon to helping children develop discipline on their own terms, this conversation offers invaluable insights for every parent. Tune in to learn how to support your child’s journey—whether they’re a budding athlete, artist, or simply exploring what they love.
Key Points:
- Finding the balance between encouragement and pressure
- The role of self-determination in achievement
- How to support children through performance anxiety
- Why giving space for autonomy leads to better outcomes
- The importance of maintaining joy in activities
Personal Stories Shared:
- Annie's piano journey from age 3 to 17
- Kylie's telegraph pole experience and anxiety management
- The statistical rarity of Olympic athletes (0.002%)
Quote of the Episode:
"Nerves are showing you that you're doing something brave and worthwhile." - Emma McKeon
Key Insights for Parents:
"Sometimes when our kids are in that tricky space, we often fill that space with unnecessary noise. We call it encouragement. But what they actually need is our quiet patience." - Kylie Coulson
- Allow children to drive their own interests
- Create quiet space for processing anxiety
- Remember it's their life, not ours
Maintaining Perspective:
"It's important that we don't crush what brings them joy... The important thing is that they're doing things that bring them joy and light them up." - Kylie Coulson
- Success looks different for every child
- Focus on enjoyment over achievement
- Allow space for changing interests
The Bigger Picture:
"There are loads and loads of fully functional, wonderful people who quit music or who quit sport and have still gone on to live good lives and even achieve and accomplish in other areas in their lives." - Justin Coulson
- Achievement isn't limited to childhood pursuits
- Life offers multiple paths to success
- Early decisions don't determine lifetime outcomes
Resources Mentioned:
- Dr. Lisa Damour's work on anxiety management
- Emma McKeon's full interview (airing Saturday)
- happyfamilies.com.au
Action Steps for Listeners:
1. Reflect on whether you're supporting or pushing
2. Practice giving space during moments of anxiety
3. Focus on enjoyment over achievement
4. Allow children to set their own goals and pace
5. Remember that quitting one thing doesn't mean failure in life
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Australia's most successful Olympian ever is on the podcast today Kylie.
Why well, because there is a sweet spot between encouraging
our kids towards excellence and pressuring them to perform. Today,
on the pod, we're going to show you exactly where
that line is and how to stay on the right
side of it with that olympian's help. Plus, when your
(00:28):
child is feeling anxious about performing, whether it's on the
sporting field, or in an exam or on stage, We're
going to share a powerful reframe that can turn that
nervous energy into their secret weapon. Welcome to the Happy
Families Podcast, Real parenting solutions every day on Australia's most
downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, where
(00:48):
the parents of six daughters. I've got a PhD in
psychology to help you along. I recently spoke with Australia's
most decorated Olympian, Emma mcken. What a swim by Australias
Go mar came with a blustering final leg with an
extraordinary fourteen Olympic medals, including six golds. Emma recently announced
(01:11):
her retirement after competing in three Olympic Games, Rio, Tokyo
and Paris, and Kylie, she missed London in twenty twelve
by one tenth of a second.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That's intense.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
She stoppinn hated the poll for over a decade, and
today I'm a Happy Family's podcast, she's sharing insights into
how her parents helped her to achieve at the highest
level while keeping her love for the sport alive. Yep,
she's one of those athletes who still does the athletic
thing even though she's retired. She still swims on Saturday.
By the way, we're going to replay my full conversation
with Emma so you can hear everything she said. But
(01:45):
today we're focusing on the key points that every parent
needs to know about helping their kids to achieve their
potential without the pressure that can push them away from
what they love. Kylie. Emma's insights about the way that
her own pairents approached her sport a just fascinating, especially
given that her father, Ron was a Commonwealth swimmer. He
(02:07):
was an accomplished swimmer, one medals at the Comwealth Games,
and he was also her coach. So many parents struggle
with knowing how much to push and when to pull
back with their kids, especially when it comes to sport.
Here's what she said to me when I asked her,
how did your parents get this balance?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Right? I think it was definitely the balance. It was
like not pushing me to do a certain thing, and
not pushing me to achieve a certain level or anything
like that. It was purely about enjoyment, especially from that
young age, because I think they knew that if there's
something that I love and that I enjoy and it's
(02:44):
coming from me, then that means the longer that I'll
be doing it for and for them, Like they wanted
me to learn how to swim from a young age,
and then it was all kind of directed by me
and they encouraged that. But it's that fine balance. And
then also having the balance then allowed me to be
self determined and had the self want to set goals
(03:05):
and move ahead and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Kylie, there's some great wisdom here. What stood out to you.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It got me thinking about our kids and the things
that they've achieved. We've obviously got no Olympians in our home, no,
but we have children who have great loves.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
To my great disappointment, we haven't had an Olympian yet
out of six kids. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, funnily enough, our kids actually swam in the mckeirn's pool.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah we knew that. Well, we didn't know Emma, but
we certainly knew her parents because we were one of
their best customers. I don't know how many kids we
had in that poll on any one time, but it
was expensive.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
But I was thinking about Annie, our seventeen year old.
She absolutely showed an interest and desired to play the
piano from a very young age, so from about three
I decided that it might be a good idea to
actually get us started. We found a teacher who taught
the Suzuki method, which meant that she didn't need to
(03:59):
know how to read me music. She could just learn
by ear. And she loved it. But after a few
months of being there, I just was really concerned about
how formalized her teacher was in her teaching methods and
her desire that my three year old was going to
practice her piano every day for at least twenty to
(04:21):
thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I remember it was intense.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
It was very intense, and each week we would go
and I would feel like I was being sent to
the principal's office because she'd give me a serve because
she could tell that Annie had not sat at the
piano enough during the week.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So we started cracking the whip and we said, you
are going to be a carniie hoo pianist. We did not, No,
we did not.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I pulled to the plug and she didn't play. But
by the time she was about she was probably about
six when she started asking again. But it wasn't until
she was nearly eight that we kind of looked at
it and decided that we would allow her to go
back to lessons.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, it's worth the spend. Let's give it another go.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We found another teacher and we and we started the
process again. And at no point have we ever told
Annie that she has to which don't tell her to
practice for a certain amount of time. So some days
she doesn't touch the piano at all.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Some weeks she doesn't touch the piano at all.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But her love for it has continued to grow to
the point now that after many years of lessons, she
came to us and she said, look, I actually don't
think I need a teacher anymore. I know what I
need to do. It's just about practicing. I don't want
to be a concert pianist, but I do want to continue,
you know, loving to play. Now we have the joy
(05:35):
of listening to a daughter who can play at a
grade six level and accompany her sister who loves a
musical theater no end.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, we've got the Wicked sound Well it's not the
looking soundtrack, it's live. She's playing it on the piano
and the kids walk around the house and sing, defying
gravity and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And it's delightful. Is she playing at Carnegie Hall? No,
But in our laundroom she gets.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
She's a rock star.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
A rock star, Yeah, and it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I did some quick maths, by the way, and a
little bit of googling while you were sharing that story.
The Australian Olympic team usually has between four and five
hundred athletes per Olympic Games. With Australia's population about twenty
six million, this means that roughly points zero zero two
percent of Australians represent their country at each Olympics. It's
even lower for the Winter Olympics, obviously with Australia, which
(06:25):
helps to explain why with six daughters we still don't
have Olympian.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It was really never an optionalise.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I don't think so with our kids.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
No, No, it's funny when it comes to the pool
or any sporting field. Our kids don't have a competitive
bone in their bodies. But put them in front of
each other at the table to play, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, but I digress.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
What was your biggest take out of Emma's words?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
So the words she said and I quote allowing me
to be self determined. So when I run my workshops,
when I write my books, when we do this podcast,
I talk a lot about this thing called the three
ease of effective discipline. That is that we need to explore, explain,
and empower, And whether we're talking about discipline in the pool,
(07:12):
or discipline with a musical instrument or discipline with study,
it doesn't really matter what it is. This idea of
the three ease of effective discipline isn't so much about
getting the kids to be nice to their siblings, although
the strategy works there. The keyword is discipline, and discipline
is about, well, we use the word discipline to describe
somebody who's good at their quote unquote discipline. So Emma
(07:36):
has chosen this discipline. She's done it freely, in the
same way that you described our daughter choosing the piano freely.
When our kids step in and pursue a hobby or
a sport or something that matters to them in a
self determined way they do it. It's literally us saying
I'm not giving you carte blanche. It's not total freedom,
(07:58):
it's not full independence. Rather saying to my child, I
want to help you to make wise decisions. What decisions
are you thinking about making? Now, let's unpack that. Does
that work? Does it not work? What's good about it?
What's not good about it? How can we support you
and making the decisions that are going to be best
for your life? And what I'm really hearing in Emma's conversation,
especially in the broader conversation that we'll play in full
(08:18):
on Saturday, is parents who said, you love swimming. We
want to support you with it if that's what you
want to keep doing. But Emma, it is up to you,
and we can give you all the support you need
if that's what you want to do. That's what she did,
and I just I love the way she describes it.
I love those words allowing me to be self determined.
I guess the other thing that I would say is
(08:39):
when I think about how we get this balance right,
how we can be encouraging but not pushed too hard,
is we've got to create some distance here and recognize
it's not my life, this is their life. And if
we've got a daughter who doesn't want to be a
rock star or a concert pianist but really loves to
be able to sit down at the piano and play
music and and just love music, that's the choice that
(09:02):
she's made. And it's true that maybe one day, not
that I have this aspiration for her, but if I did,
it's true that maybe one day she and I will
look back and regret that she never made it to
fulfill her potential quote unquote. But that's okay.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It's her life, but her life's not over either, And
we're making a decision based on the fact that it
can never happen like.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
A sixteen or a seventeen year old. Oh my goodness,
that's it. And I'll also add this, there are loads
and loads and loads and loads of fully functional, wonderful
people who quit music or who quit sport and have
still gone on to live good lives. And even achieve
and accomplish in other areas in their lives. So I
just think we pushed too hard and put too much
pressure on our kids in too many cases. And Emma's
(09:45):
example is a wonderful, a wonderful illustration of how we
can get that balance right.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think one of the most important things to remember
is it's not our life, it's actually our kids. And
I felt as a three year old and he's piano teacher,
forgot that she decided that it was her life and
this was how Annie was going to be.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I'm on a mission to make it's terrifight.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And I know from time to time it crushes you
as a parent. It crushes us when we see our
kids could actually be really good.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
At something, especially when you've invested in it with them
and for them as well.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
But they choose to let it go. But I think too,
it's important for us to remember that their life's not over.
Just because they decide at the age of seven that
they don't ever want to play the piano again doesn't
mean that at some point they can't pick it up.
Are they going to be an Olympian or you know,
play at Carnegie Hall as a twenty five year old.
(10:41):
I don't know, but doesn't matter. The important thing is
that they're doing things that bring them joy and light
them up.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of very, very functional, wonderful
people in the world who have quit sport, or who
have quit music or quit that thing that the parents
will make them.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Do and still live amazing lives.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah. Yeah, after the break managing anxiety and nerves, how
do the lessons from our most successful Olympian in Australian
history help our kids when they're feeling worried? Okay, Kylie?
I asked Emma McKee, in Australia's most decorated Olympian ever,
about something that every parent has probably witnessed, even with
(11:19):
the most confident of kids pre competition nerves. I get
the sense that you would have been a nervous speaker,
a nervous singer, a nervous performer. Have I got that right?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I still am. What do you mean I was?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I've just just got the feeling anyway. I was asking
her about whether those nerves were different when she was
a kid versus being at the global stage, right the
Olympic Games, of the World Championships or anything, because because
whether it's sport, or whether it's music performances or school
presentations or whatever it is, our kids are going to
face these moments of anxiety. And I love the way
that she reframed anxiety for both parents and children.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, it's definitely still got nervous while I was young,
and that's just because I cared about what I was
about to do and didn't know what I might be
about to do. And so the nerves that are actually
were same whether whether I was at a state level
meet or through to when I eventually was at in
the Olympic. So I think it's refraining it in your
head and seeing the nerves is a good thing. The
(12:15):
nerves are like little bouts of energy that you can
use in your race, and nerves are showing you that
you care. Nerves are showing you that you're doing something
brave and worthwhile, and I think it's reframing it in
more of a positive way.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Kylie's so sensible, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah. I love what she said. Nerves are showing you
that you're doing something brave and worthwhile. A handful of
years ago, I took myself off to a health retreat
and as part of that, there was a challenge for
me to do something outside my comfort zone. You know
those telegraph poles.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh yeah, they're up and down most streets. I know
what a telegraph pole is.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, have you ever climbed one?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I don't want to sound like I've had a misspent youth,
but actually, yes, you guess I have.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And so when you see telegraph pole, it looks solid. Yeah,
like it's solid yeah, and high and high. Yeah. So
the idea was I had to climb to the top
of the telegraph pole. And on the top of the
telegraph pole was a platform just big enough for two
feet side by side.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I've climbed this one. They're really hard to climb onto, huh. Like,
when you get to the top, you've got to somehow
limby your body up onto the platform.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yes, and the whole momentum of you is actually going
over and almost you're going to fall off.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
We should we should quickly highlight you were tended to like, yes,
But what.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I didn't know was looking at this ridiculously thick solid pole,
was that the further you went up it was no
longer solid. There was a lot more movement than I
ever expected.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
At the top so it's solid but it's moving.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yes, And part of the process was learning to breathe.
It was a really important part of the process, and
I didn't understand it until I was up there. As
we watched other people doing it, you could see if
they were anxious and their breath was going fast, then
the pole actually wobbled at a really fast rate. But
if they could get their breath under control, the pole
(14:16):
stopped moving.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
So control the anxiety and control the movement of the pole, yeah,
and have more success.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So visually powerful. So I got up and I thought,
I've got this. I can do this. This is hard,
but I can do it. But I got to the
top where I had to take my feet off the
pole itself and put it onto the platform, and that's
where I started to fall apart. And for nearly ten minutes,
everybody sat at the bottom in absolute quiet while I
(14:45):
fought against the anxiety and fear. I was feeling right.
I finally did do it, and the sense of achievement
was insane. It was amazing. I felt so accomplished as
a result of doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So the idea, as you climbed to the pole, that
up on it and then you jump off.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I've got to jump off it. That was big too,
But after that, everyone who went after me, they scaled
it forty seconds, maybe a couple of minutes. Like everybody
else got through it very quickly. I was definitely the longest.
But what I learned out of that experience was that
sometimes when our kids are in that tricky space, you
(15:23):
know she talked about nerves showing us that we're doing
something brave. When they're in that tricky space, we often
fill that space with unnecessary noise. We call it encouragement,
but what they actually need is our quiet patients. And
what I had at the bottom of that pole was
a coach who literally just every now and again would
(15:44):
just go just take a deep breath, Kylie, just take
a deep breath. There was no there was no at
any point acknowledgment that I couldn't do it, but there
was a There was the space and the quiet to
allow me to work through that emotion.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I love that you're touched by that. I love that
even as you reflect on that, just having that space,
the fact that people had respect for your anxiety and
they gave you the space to work through it. But
you also had that one person who was the voice
of reason, the voice of comfort and reassurance. I love
that story. Anxiety. It's normal, it's healthy, it's natural. It's
(16:23):
designed to help us. Doctor listener. Moore talks about how
we have a cognitive board of directors in our brain,
but we should not. We cannot let emotion, particularly anxiety,
chair the board. The entire interview is absolutely fascinating. Emma
mckehon was very generous in talking with me for about
thirty to forty minutes. We would love for you to
(16:44):
hear the whole thing, so we're dropping it India Feed
on Saturday morning so you can listen while you run errands,
or shop or have that walk. The walk that I
usually do on a Saturday morning is behind the lawnmark.
Hope you enjoy listening to the episode on Saturday morning.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by and rule On
from Bridge Media. If you like the podcast, can we
invite you to take twenty seconds out of your day?
(17:04):
It's literally that quick twenty seconds. Leave us a rating
and review. We like the five star ones the best
by the way they genuinely help people to find the
show and make their family happier. We are justin and
Kylie Coulson. Resources and ideas to help your family thrive
are available at happy families dot com dot au
Australia's most successful Olympian ever is on the podcast today Kylie.
Why well, because there is a sweet spot between encouraging
our kids towards excellence and pressuring them to perform. Today,
on the pod, we're going to show you exactly where
that line is and how to stay on the right
side of it with that olympian's help. Plus, when your
(00:28):
child is feeling anxious about performing, whether it's on the
sporting field, or in an exam or on stage, We're
going to share a powerful reframe that can turn that
nervous energy into their secret weapon. Welcome to the Happy
Families Podcast, Real parenting solutions every day on Australia's most
downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, where
(00:48):
the parents of six daughters. I've got a PhD in
psychology to help you along. I recently spoke with Australia's
most decorated Olympian, Emma mcken. What a swim by Australias
Go mar came with a blustering final leg with an
extraordinary fourteen Olympic medals, including six golds. Emma recently announced
(01:11):
her retirement after competing in three Olympic Games, Rio, Tokyo
and Paris, and Kylie, she missed London in twenty twelve
by one tenth of a second.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
That's intense.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
She stoppinn hated the poll for over a decade, and
today I'm a Happy Family's podcast, she's sharing insights into
how her parents helped her to achieve at the highest
level while keeping her love for the sport alive. Yep,
she's one of those athletes who still does the athletic
thing even though she's retired. She still swims on Saturday.
By the way, we're going to replay my full conversation
with Emma so you can hear everything she said. But
(01:45):
today we're focusing on the key points that every parent
needs to know about helping their kids to achieve their
potential without the pressure that can push them away from
what they love. Kylie. Emma's insights about the way that
her own pairents approached her sport a just fascinating, especially
given that her father, Ron was a Commonwealth swimmer. He
(02:07):
was an accomplished swimmer, one medals at the Comwealth Games,
and he was also her coach. So many parents struggle
with knowing how much to push and when to pull
back with their kids, especially when it comes to sport.
Here's what she said to me when I asked her,
how did your parents get this balance?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Right? I think it was definitely the balance. It was
like not pushing me to do a certain thing, and
not pushing me to achieve a certain level or anything
like that. It was purely about enjoyment, especially from that
young age, because I think they knew that if there's
something that I love and that I enjoy and it's
(02:44):
coming from me, then that means the longer that I'll
be doing it for and for them, Like they wanted
me to learn how to swim from a young age,
and then it was all kind of directed by me
and they encouraged that. But it's that fine balance. And
then also having the balance then allowed me to be
self determined and had the self want to set goals
(03:05):
and move ahead and things like that.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Kylie, there's some great wisdom here. What stood out to you.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It got me thinking about our kids and the things
that they've achieved. We've obviously got no Olympians in our home, no,
but we have children who have great loves.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
To my great disappointment, we haven't had an Olympian yet
out of six kids. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, funnily enough, our kids actually swam in the mckeirn's pool.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah we knew that. Well, we didn't know Emma, but
we certainly knew her parents because we were one of
their best customers. I don't know how many kids we
had in that poll on any one time, but it
was expensive.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
But I was thinking about Annie, our seventeen year old.
She absolutely showed an interest and desired to play the
piano from a very young age, so from about three
I decided that it might be a good idea to
actually get us started. We found a teacher who taught
the Suzuki method, which meant that she didn't need to
(03:59):
know how to read me music. She could just learn
by ear. And she loved it. But after a few
months of being there, I just was really concerned about
how formalized her teacher was in her teaching methods and
her desire that my three year old was going to
practice her piano every day for at least twenty to
(04:21):
thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I remember it was intense.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
It was very intense, and each week we would go
and I would feel like I was being sent to
the principal's office because she'd give me a serve because
she could tell that Annie had not sat at the
piano enough during the week.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So we started cracking the whip and we said, you
are going to be a carniie hoo pianist. We did not, No,
we did not.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I pulled to the plug and she didn't play. But
by the time she was about she was probably about
six when she started asking again. But it wasn't until
she was nearly eight that we kind of looked at
it and decided that we would allow her to go
back to lessons.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, it's worth the spend. Let's give it another go.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We found another teacher and we and we started the
process again. And at no point have we ever told
Annie that she has to which don't tell her to
practice for a certain amount of time. So some days
she doesn't touch the piano at all.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Some weeks she doesn't touch the piano at all.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But her love for it has continued to grow to
the point now that after many years of lessons, she
came to us and she said, look, I actually don't
think I need a teacher anymore. I know what I
need to do. It's just about practicing. I don't want
to be a concert pianist, but I do want to continue,
you know, loving to play. Now we have the joy
(05:35):
of listening to a daughter who can play at a
grade six level and accompany her sister who loves a
musical theater no end.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, we've got the Wicked sound Well it's not the
looking soundtrack, it's live. She's playing it on the piano
and the kids walk around the house and sing, defying
gravity and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And it's delightful. Is she playing at Carnegie Hall? No,
But in our laundroom she gets.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
She's a rock star.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
A rock star, Yeah, and it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I did some quick maths, by the way, and a
little bit of googling while you were sharing that story.
The Australian Olympic team usually has between four and five
hundred athletes per Olympic Games. With Australia's population about twenty
six million, this means that roughly points zero zero two
percent of Australians represent their country at each Olympics. It's
even lower for the Winter Olympics, obviously with Australia, which
(06:25):
helps to explain why with six daughters we still don't
have Olympian.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It was really never an optionalise.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I don't think so with our kids.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
No, No, it's funny when it comes to the pool
or any sporting field. Our kids don't have a competitive
bone in their bodies. But put them in front of
each other at the table to play, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, but I digress.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
What was your biggest take out of Emma's words?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
So the words she said and I quote allowing me
to be self determined. So when I run my workshops,
when I write my books, when we do this podcast,
I talk a lot about this thing called the three
ease of effective discipline. That is that we need to explore, explain,
and empower, And whether we're talking about discipline in the pool,
(07:12):
or discipline with a musical instrument or discipline with study,
it doesn't really matter what it is. This idea of
the three ease of effective discipline isn't so much about
getting the kids to be nice to their siblings, although
the strategy works there. The keyword is discipline, and discipline
is about, well, we use the word discipline to describe
somebody who's good at their quote unquote discipline. So Emma
(07:36):
has chosen this discipline. She's done it freely, in the
same way that you described our daughter choosing the piano freely.
When our kids step in and pursue a hobby or
a sport or something that matters to them in a
self determined way they do it. It's literally us saying
I'm not giving you carte blanche. It's not total freedom,
(07:58):
it's not full independence. Rather saying to my child, I
want to help you to make wise decisions. What decisions
are you thinking about making? Now, let's unpack that. Does
that work? Does it not work? What's good about it?
What's not good about it? How can we support you
and making the decisions that are going to be best
for your life? And what I'm really hearing in Emma's conversation,
especially in the broader conversation that we'll play in full
(08:18):
on Saturday, is parents who said, you love swimming. We
want to support you with it if that's what you
want to keep doing. But Emma, it is up to you,
and we can give you all the support you need
if that's what you want to do. That's what she did,
and I just I love the way she describes it.
I love those words allowing me to be self determined.
I guess the other thing that I would say is
(08:39):
when I think about how we get this balance right,
how we can be encouraging but not pushed too hard,
is we've got to create some distance here and recognize
it's not my life, this is their life. And if
we've got a daughter who doesn't want to be a
rock star or a concert pianist but really loves to
be able to sit down at the piano and play
music and and just love music, that's the choice that
(09:02):
she's made. And it's true that maybe one day, not
that I have this aspiration for her, but if I did,
it's true that maybe one day she and I will
look back and regret that she never made it to
fulfill her potential quote unquote. But that's okay.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It's her life, but her life's not over either, And
we're making a decision based on the fact that it
can never happen like.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
A sixteen or a seventeen year old. Oh my goodness,
that's it. And I'll also add this, there are loads
and loads and loads and loads of fully functional, wonderful
people who quit music or who quit sport and have
still gone on to live good lives. And even achieve
and accomplish in other areas in their lives. So I
just think we pushed too hard and put too much
pressure on our kids in too many cases. And Emma's
(09:45):
example is a wonderful, a wonderful illustration of how we
can get that balance right.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think one of the most important things to remember
is it's not our life, it's actually our kids. And
I felt as a three year old and he's piano teacher,
forgot that she decided that it was her life and
this was how Annie was going to be.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I'm on a mission to make it's terrifight.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
And I know from time to time it crushes you
as a parent. It crushes us when we see our
kids could actually be really good.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
At something, especially when you've invested in it with them
and for them as well.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
But they choose to let it go. But I think too,
it's important for us to remember that their life's not over.
Just because they decide at the age of seven that
they don't ever want to play the piano again doesn't
mean that at some point they can't pick it up.
Are they going to be an Olympian or you know,
play at Carnegie Hall as a twenty five year old.
(10:41):
I don't know, but doesn't matter. The important thing is
that they're doing things that bring them joy and light
them up.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of very, very functional, wonderful
people in the world who have quit sport, or who
have quit music or quit that thing that the parents
will make them.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Do and still live amazing lives.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah. Yeah, after the break managing anxiety and nerves, how
do the lessons from our most successful Olympian in Australian
history help our kids when they're feeling worried? Okay, Kylie?
I asked Emma McKee, in Australia's most decorated Olympian ever,
about something that every parent has probably witnessed, even with
(11:19):
the most confident of kids pre competition nerves. I get
the sense that you would have been a nervous speaker,
a nervous singer, a nervous performer. Have I got that right?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I still am. What do you mean I was?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
I've just just got the feeling anyway. I was asking
her about whether those nerves were different when she was
a kid versus being at the global stage, right the
Olympic Games, of the World Championships or anything, because because
whether it's sport, or whether it's music performances or school
presentations or whatever it is, our kids are going to
face these moments of anxiety. And I love the way
that she reframed anxiety for both parents and children.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, it's definitely still got nervous while I was young,
and that's just because I cared about what I was
about to do and didn't know what I might be
about to do. And so the nerves that are actually
were same whether whether I was at a state level
meet or through to when I eventually was at in
the Olympic. So I think it's refraining it in your
head and seeing the nerves is a good thing. The
(12:15):
nerves are like little bouts of energy that you can
use in your race, and nerves are showing you that
you care. Nerves are showing you that you're doing something
brave and worthwhile, and I think it's reframing it in
more of a positive way.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Kylie's so sensible, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah. I love what she said. Nerves are showing you
that you're doing something brave and worthwhile. A handful of
years ago, I took myself off to a health retreat
and as part of that, there was a challenge for
me to do something outside my comfort zone. You know
those telegraph poles.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh yeah, they're up and down most streets. I know
what a telegraph pole is.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, have you ever climbed one?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I don't want to sound like I've had a misspent youth,
but actually, yes, you guess I have.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
And so when you see telegraph pole, it looks solid. Yeah,
like it's solid yeah, and high and high. Yeah. So
the idea was I had to climb to the top
of the telegraph pole. And on the top of the
telegraph pole was a platform just big enough for two
feet side by side.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I've climbed this one. They're really hard to climb onto, huh. Like,
when you get to the top, you've got to somehow
limby your body up onto the platform.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yes, and the whole momentum of you is actually going
over and almost you're going to fall off.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
We should we should quickly highlight you were tended to like, yes,
But what.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I didn't know was looking at this ridiculously thick solid pole,
was that the further you went up it was no
longer solid. There was a lot more movement than I
ever expected.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
At the top so it's solid but it's moving.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yes, And part of the process was learning to breathe.
It was a really important part of the process, and
I didn't understand it until I was up there. As
we watched other people doing it, you could see if
they were anxious and their breath was going fast, then
the pole actually wobbled at a really fast rate. But
if they could get their breath under control, the pole
(14:16):
stopped moving.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
So control the anxiety and control the movement of the pole, yeah,
and have more success.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So visually powerful. So I got up and I thought,
I've got this. I can do this. This is hard,
but I can do it. But I got to the
top where I had to take my feet off the
pole itself and put it onto the platform, and that's
where I started to fall apart. And for nearly ten minutes,
everybody sat at the bottom in absolute quiet while I
(14:45):
fought against the anxiety and fear. I was feeling right.
I finally did do it, and the sense of achievement
was insane. It was amazing. I felt so accomplished as
a result of doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So the idea, as you climbed to the pole, that
up on it and then you jump off.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I've got to jump off it. That was big too,
But after that, everyone who went after me, they scaled
it forty seconds, maybe a couple of minutes. Like everybody
else got through it very quickly. I was definitely the longest.
But what I learned out of that experience was that
sometimes when our kids are in that tricky space, you
(15:23):
know she talked about nerves showing us that we're doing
something brave. When they're in that tricky space, we often
fill that space with unnecessary noise. We call it encouragement,
but what they actually need is our quiet patients. And
what I had at the bottom of that pole was
a coach who literally just every now and again would
(15:44):
just go just take a deep breath, Kylie, just take
a deep breath. There was no there was no at
any point acknowledgment that I couldn't do it, but there
was a There was the space and the quiet to
allow me to work through that emotion.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I love that you're touched by that. I love that
even as you reflect on that, just having that space,
the fact that people had respect for your anxiety and
they gave you the space to work through it. But
you also had that one person who was the voice
of reason, the voice of comfort and reassurance. I love
that story. Anxiety. It's normal, it's healthy, it's natural. It's
(16:23):
designed to help us. Doctor listener. Moore talks about how
we have a cognitive board of directors in our brain,
but we should not. We cannot let emotion, particularly anxiety,
chair the board. The entire interview is absolutely fascinating. Emma
mckehon was very generous in talking with me for about
thirty to forty minutes. We would love for you to
(16:44):
hear the whole thing, so we're dropping it India Feed
on Saturday morning so you can listen while you run errands,
or shop or have that walk. The walk that I
usually do on a Saturday morning is behind the lawnmark.
Hope you enjoy listening to the episode on Saturday morning.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by and rule On
from Bridge Media. If you like the podcast, can we
invite you to take twenty seconds out of your day?
(17:04):
It's literally that quick twenty seconds. Leave us a rating
and review. We like the five star ones the best
by the way they genuinely help people to find the
show and make their family happier. We are justin and
Kylie Coulson. Resources and ideas to help your family thrive
are available at happy families dot com dot au
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