January 20, 2025 • 15 mins
How to support children through their fears and phobias - whether it's buttons, beards, or anything in between - without escalating their anxiety.
Key Points:
- Children's fears, no matter how irrational they seem, are genuinely frightening to them
- Trying to have rational conversations with emotional children is counterproductive
- Telling children they have "no choice" increases anxiety rather than reducing it
- Creating emotional safety must come before addressing the fear itself
- Gentle exposure combined with patience is more effective than forced confrontation
Quote of the Episode: "Your child is not being difficult. He is experiencing a difficulty. There's a really big difference there."
Key Insights:
- The importance of validating feelings before problem-solving
- Why social normalisation often helps naturally reduce fears
- How creating distance between stimulus and response can help
- The value of giving children agency in finding solutions
- Why parent-led solutions are often sufficient without therapy
Resources Mentioned:
- Inside Out 2 movie review episode (January 16th)
- Happy Families website
- School inclusion policies
Action Steps for Parents:
- Acknowledge the fear without trying to talk them out of it
- Focus on creating emotional safety before addressing the fear
- Look for and celebrate "brave moments"
- Give children agency in finding solutions
- Consider alternative practical solutions (like wearing sports uniform)
- Work with schools to find accommodations when needed
- Remember that most childhood fears resolve with patience and support
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Today on the Happy Families podcast, what do you do
when your child has an irrational fear, or at least
a fear that doesn't make sense to you. Welcome, so
good to have you along for the Happy Families podcast
Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast,
we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, and every Tuesday on
the pod we answer your tricky questions, whether their question
(00:29):
is about discipline, bedtime, screens, wellbeing, relationships, anything at all.
Literally ask us anything. If you'd like to submit a question,
We've got a super simple system. It's at happyfamilies dot
com dot au. Literally go to the website, scroll down
to where it says podcasts, click the record button, start talking.
Let us know what's on your mind, Kylie. A question
(00:52):
today from Joanne in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hi, Justin. My name's Joanne and I'm from Melbourne. I've
been listening to your podcast since my oldest was a
baby and it has helped us so much as parents.
I'm getting in touch because my son has a fear
of buttons. We're not sure how it developed, and it
started sometime between when he was two and three. We
thought he would outgrow it, and so didn't really push it.
But he's now five and is about to start school.
(01:15):
We've been preparing him by telling him that he'll have
no choice but to wear uniforms when he goes to school,
which will have buttons on them. So I managed to
get him to start wearing his kinder uniform and alternate days.
But he would want to have something over it to
hide the buttons, either a jumper or a jacket, which
it won't always be an option with the warmer weather.
We're afraid that if we push it, it will traumatize him further.
We're not sure what to do and should we see
(01:36):
a therapist. Thanks in advance, Joanne.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Kylie, were you afraid of stuff when you were a kid?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I did have a pretty irrational fear. I actually don't
know if i've overcome it yet.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, been in mind.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I don't like talking to strangers on the phone.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That Yeah, I remember once I asked you could you
make a call about connecting the electricity because we're moving
into this place and you refuse to do it. I
don't want to talk to people I don't know about stuff.
Still a bit like that as a grown up.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I really am, and even when I do make those
phone calls, I need to have somebody's name, and if
I can't hear it, I actually go through the awkwardness
of making sure I know who I'm speaking to before
I can continue the conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Have you thought about therapy for this? Maybe I'm just kidding,
So let's just at the outset highlight. It's really normal
for children to experience fears. Kids are afraid of making
telephone calls, but more likely they're afraid of things like
the food on their plate, or the fact that they've
done a pool and it scared them when they looked
(02:37):
at it in the toilet, or has it left their
body when Some kids won't go to the toilet because
of this.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I don't like the sound of the toilet flushing.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Some kids are scared of dogs. There was COVID. Do
you remember how terrified I mean during twenty twenty twenty one,
the number of people we did some podcasts on this,
The number of people who said, my child is afraid
of Germans, my so skenger my child won't touch door handles,
or I mean that even adults didn't want to touch
(03:05):
fuel pumps. In the early days, of COVID, and so
the idea that I mean, some people became afraid of
going outside without hand sanitizer or gloves or masks, and
the anxieties become really really big, the worries, the fear,
the concern that something is going to occur. Being afraid
of buttons is perhaps a little more unusual. It's not
(03:25):
one that we hear a lot, but kids become afraid
of different stuff for different reasons. I think the most
important thing here is that you remember that your child
is not being difficult. Your child is having a difficulty.
And we're not going to talk just about buttons here.
I mean, Joe, answer question is important and we'll address it,
but I want to talk generally about children being afraid
of stuff. If we're only talking about buttons, that would
(03:47):
rule most people out. But everyone has a child. Most
of us are afraid of some stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I guess the biggest challenge here is that often we
try to have a rational, logical conversation with our children
when they're in an a highly emotive state.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And I'm always saying high motions equals low intelligence. That is,
you can't think straight when you're in a high motion state.
Let me ask you this, Kylie. When you're stressed, when
you're worried, when you're anxious, when you are metaphorically in
a situation where you're about to encounter buttons, that is,
you're going.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
To have to pick up the phone and make a
phone call.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, at like the health fund or the local council.
You've got to make an inquiry about something, whatever it is.
As the anxiety goes up for you as an adult,
what is that you want from loving people around.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You that that sit beside me, hold my hand, stroke.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
My phone, made me do it for you?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Give me the words?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Actually right?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
What do I say here?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yes? I need them to give me the words.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
How have you ever managed to do four years of podcasting?
It's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
What editing does?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, Jing an amazing job. I am pretty good. I
so so to pick up on your point here, though,
what our children need is they don't need a problem
solving conversation, No, they need an emotion conversation.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
When we tell our kids that they have no choice
or they have to do something. So in my case,
it was just constantly, you're a big girl, you need
to make the phone call, And I.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Felt I said that more than once after we were married.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Have a choice, we actually feed the anxiety exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I'm thinking I'm having flashbacks to Inside Out too right now,
and just that it's such a beautiful movie about dealing
with it. Obviously, we talked about it on the sixteenth
of jan I think it was in our Thursday Morning episode.
The way that anxiety takes over and that's what's happening
with this little guy. Okay, he's only five years old.
He's about start score probably the next week or so,
and he's thinking the buttons, the buttons are out to
(05:53):
get me. Whatever's going through his mind, we're never quite
going to know. And even if you sit down and say,
tell me what it is about the buttons, that four
year old or that five year old, I guarantee will
not be able to articulate why the buttons are scary,
why the buttons are causing anxiety. It's possible, as you've
said that over the last couple of years, especially in
(06:14):
the last little while, by highlighting you've got no choice,
it's going to happen. That doesn't tend to reduce anxiety,
tends to exacerbate and build it. So our job is
to validate before problem solving. I'm not into the gentle
parenting craze. I've been accused of being a gentle parenting
proponent for a long long time, and it's usually by
people who are gentle parents and love gentle parenting. My
(06:37):
sense is that if you do gentle parenting right, it's wonderful,
but too many people don't do it right. And I'm
more interested in supporting needs, being a need supportive parent
than a gentle parent. And a need support in this
context is saying this is really tough, isn't it. Or
you're really scared, aren't you? Or every time we go
(06:58):
to put that shirt on, you have a little mini
meltdown because it worries you, doesn't it? And just having
your child here, you articulate that, enunciate the words describe
the problem, not fix it, just describe it makes them
go yeah, yeah, that's actually that's right. If you try
to go logical then and say well, why don't you
(07:19):
tell me why, they won't have an answer because even
for them, they're feeling it, but they don't know, and
they will literally just cry and they'll get anxious because
they can't ask the question. But that's our first, stop
right there. This is hard for you. Just describe, say
what you see.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Two weeks ago, I shared a story about me and
my anxiety around having to climb a telegraph pole.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
For context, for those of you who missed the podcast
a couple of weeks ago, you're climbing a telegraph pole
because you were on a retreat and it was one
of the activities, and you were harnessed in, and the
objective was to get to the top of the pole
just in case someone thinks you're doing.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And recognize that our fears are often quite irrational.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, like buttons were completely We're.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Completely safe, completely strapped in, and yet the thought of
actually getting on top of that telegraph pole was so
intense for me to nearly ten minutes, yeah, ten minutes
to do it. But what I loved about, I guess
my reflection of it was that in that moment, I
didn't need people, a whole heap of people at the
bottom screaming at me telling I could do it and
(08:25):
that everything was going to be okay. What I appreciated
and needed and was given was the quiet patience of
my mentor at the bottom just said, take a deep breath, Kuyly.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You've got this, You've got this. The phrase quiet patience
is what resonates for me. After the break on the
Happy Families podcast, we'll look at seven action steps to
help your kids regardless of what they're afraid of, to
have those brave button moments, Kylie, I have seven action
(09:02):
steps that are going to help any parent whose children
are struggling. But before that, I really want to step
into just a couple of take home messages from what
we've discussed, because we've covered some really good stuff here.
First thing, children's fears, no matter how irrational they might seem,
are genuinely frightening to them.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Well, they're real to them.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Correct, So when you say don't worry, you're being silly,
calm down, there's nothing to worry about. That doesn't help them.
That makes them feel like, now there's something wrong with
them because they are worried about it and they're not calm,
and they can't seem to act on your instructions.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, it also teaches them that you don't understand exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Second, really key point, try to have rational conversations with
an emotional child is generally going to be counterproductive, and
telling them to calm down so you can have a rational,
logical conversation is also going to be counterproductive. We need
to see them in that space and literally say this
is really hard for you, isn't it, and give them
a hug, help them to be calm, and then move
forward to It's like that conversation we had the other
(10:00):
week with Charles douhig. Do you want to be helped?
Do you want to hug or do you want to
be heard? Third thing, you've already mentioned this, but it's
a key point that we've got to be really clear on.
Telling kids that they have no choice is going to
increase their anxiety. It's not going to reduce it. Fourth thing,
Creating emotional safety is what we have to do before
(10:20):
we address the fear. Once we've created the emotional safety,
that's when we get to have the conversation and say,
all right, this is really tricky. What's our way forward?
How are we going to address this final point gentle exposure.
Gentle exposure to the buttons or to the puppy dog,
or to the man with a beard or whatever it
is that your child might be afraid of gentle exposure.
Lots of you, what was the word you used about patience,
(10:44):
quiet patient, gentle exposure, quiet patience much more effective than
some sort of a forced confrontation. Do kids sometimes have
to do really hard things? Of course they do. Sometimes
you've just got to push through it. Sometimes you do
have to suck it up, Princess, but more often than
not they don't.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You've just taken me back to my childcare days and
the idea of exposing children to different mediums. I wonder
what it will look like to use buttons in your art,
Whether it be at first he might not want to
touch one, but you could attach one to the end
of a cork and use that as a stamp that
(11:23):
he could use to create patterns on his page. As
he gets a bit more comfortable with it, you might
do some button sorting, or you might actually do a
button art work at college.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
The buttons could be the center of flowers or the sun.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
There's so many different things that you could do where
he actually starts to see maybe with school coming up,
you go to the shops and you actually go and
find a beautiful button that you could sew into the
inside of his pants that he could touch and know
that that represents Mum. Like every time he's feeling a
little bit lost or anything, he can just hold onto
that button inside his pants and that mum's thinking of
(12:01):
him and loves him. There are so many different ways
that you could play with this, and you have so
much fun.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You could teach him to use a needle and thread
and sew buttons and turn that into a craft project
or a fun weekend activity. I know that sounds weird,
but little kids, four year old, five year old kids,
they would probably be like, I get to sit with
my parents and use a like a needle has risk
associated with it, This becomes a really fun potential. It
could also exacerbate the anxiety because now he's going to
(12:26):
be scared of needles and pins and buttons. But I'm
getting ahead of myself, Kylie. We need to wrap this up.
If I was to talk about specific action steps for parents,
this is what I'd be encouraging. Number one. Acknowledge the fear,
but don't try to talk them out of it, because
your logic is not going to be helpful. Number two,
create the emotional safety before addressing the fear. Number three,
(12:50):
look for and celebrate brave moments that your child might have.
Number four, let your child develop salut with you. Don't
give them solutions, let them develop those solutions with you.
Number five, find alternative practical solutions. So, Kylie, you've talked
about all the therapeutic options that might work, and I
(13:11):
love that. Another simple solution could be maybe he can
wear a sports uniform. I know that some sports uniforms
have buttons on the polo or whatever, but two buttons
is better than four or the different fabric. Joanne said
that he was okay wearing a jumper over the top
of the buttons, so there are definitely some options here
that could be tried. I think if it becomes really
(13:33):
really challenging, you've got to work with the school to
find accommodations where you needed. You might even want to
talk to a counselor. I don't reckon a psychologist is needed.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I wouldn't have thought that a psychologist would be a
first point of call, but I also think that there
are plenty of other therapies out there that could be helpful.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And it has been going on for a couple of years,
so maybe if you're not making any headway, it might
be helpful to get some professional involvement. And last of all,
I think we should just remember that most child good
fears resolve with quiet patients and some compassionate support.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I think the one thing to remember is, firstly, we've
got to be kind to ourselves as parents. Our kids
are going through a hard thing and sometimes that creates
hard challenges for us as parents. But secondly, we're so
used to having quick fixes. We're so used to having
answers at the ready. Because you know we've got a problem,
We've go on to Google and in an instant we've
(14:26):
got fifteen, twenty hundreds of ideas to work with. So
we're used to having answers placed in our lap. And
the reality is our kids aren't. They're not cookie cutters.
Every single one of them is different. Every single one
of them has their own perks, their own quirks, and
they are individual in their response to the world. And
(14:47):
so if we just give them the time to work
themselves out with gentle, quiet patients, I think that we'll
actually find that life is much better for everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
If you'd like to submit a tricky question, we've got
a super simple system at happy families dot com dot au.
Just go to the website, scroll down to podcasts, click
the record button and start talking. The Happy Families podcast
is produced by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media. If you
would like more information and more resources to make your
(15:17):
family happy at visit us at happy families dot com
dot au
Today on the Happy Families podcast, what do you do
when your child has an irrational fear, or at least
a fear that doesn't make sense to you. Welcome, so
good to have you along for the Happy Families podcast
Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast,
we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, and every Tuesday on
the pod we answer your tricky questions, whether their question
(00:29):
is about discipline, bedtime, screens, wellbeing, relationships, anything at all.
Literally ask us anything. If you'd like to submit a question,
We've got a super simple system. It's at happyfamilies dot
com dot au. Literally go to the website, scroll down
to where it says podcasts, click the record button, start talking.
Let us know what's on your mind, Kylie. A question
(00:52):
today from Joanne in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hi, Justin. My name's Joanne and I'm from Melbourne. I've
been listening to your podcast since my oldest was a
baby and it has helped us so much as parents.
I'm getting in touch because my son has a fear
of buttons. We're not sure how it developed, and it
started sometime between when he was two and three. We
thought he would outgrow it, and so didn't really push it.
But he's now five and is about to start school.
(01:15):
We've been preparing him by telling him that he'll have
no choice but to wear uniforms when he goes to school,
which will have buttons on them. So I managed to
get him to start wearing his kinder uniform and alternate days.
But he would want to have something over it to
hide the buttons, either a jumper or a jacket, which
it won't always be an option with the warmer weather.
We're afraid that if we push it, it will traumatize him further.
We're not sure what to do and should we see
(01:36):
a therapist. Thanks in advance, Joanne.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Kylie, were you afraid of stuff when you were a kid?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I did have a pretty irrational fear. I actually don't
know if i've overcome it yet.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, been in mind.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I don't like talking to strangers on the phone.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That Yeah, I remember once I asked you could you
make a call about connecting the electricity because we're moving
into this place and you refuse to do it. I
don't want to talk to people I don't know about stuff.
Still a bit like that as a grown up.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I really am, and even when I do make those
phone calls, I need to have somebody's name, and if
I can't hear it, I actually go through the awkwardness
of making sure I know who I'm speaking to before
I can continue the conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Have you thought about therapy for this? Maybe I'm just kidding,
So let's just at the outset highlight. It's really normal
for children to experience fears. Kids are afraid of making
telephone calls, but more likely they're afraid of things like
the food on their plate, or the fact that they've
done a pool and it scared them when they looked
(02:37):
at it in the toilet, or has it left their
body when Some kids won't go to the toilet because
of this.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I don't like the sound of the toilet flushing.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Some kids are scared of dogs. There was COVID. Do
you remember how terrified I mean during twenty twenty twenty one,
the number of people we did some podcasts on this,
The number of people who said, my child is afraid
of Germans, my so skenger my child won't touch door handles,
or I mean that even adults didn't want to touch
(03:05):
fuel pumps. In the early days, of COVID, and so
the idea that I mean, some people became afraid of
going outside without hand sanitizer or gloves or masks, and
the anxieties become really really big, the worries, the fear,
the concern that something is going to occur. Being afraid
of buttons is perhaps a little more unusual. It's not
(03:25):
one that we hear a lot, but kids become afraid
of different stuff for different reasons. I think the most
important thing here is that you remember that your child
is not being difficult. Your child is having a difficulty.
And we're not going to talk just about buttons here.
I mean, Joe, answer question is important and we'll address it,
but I want to talk generally about children being afraid
of stuff. If we're only talking about buttons, that would
(03:47):
rule most people out. But everyone has a child. Most
of us are afraid of some stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I guess the biggest challenge here is that often we
try to have a rational, logical conversation with our children
when they're in an a highly emotive state.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And I'm always saying high motions equals low intelligence. That is,
you can't think straight when you're in a high motion state.
Let me ask you this, Kylie. When you're stressed, when
you're worried, when you're anxious, when you are metaphorically in
a situation where you're about to encounter buttons, that is,
you're going.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
To have to pick up the phone and make a
phone call.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, at like the health fund or the local council.
You've got to make an inquiry about something, whatever it is.
As the anxiety goes up for you as an adult,
what is that you want from loving people around.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
You that that sit beside me, hold my hand, stroke.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
My phone, made me do it for you?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Give me the words?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Actually right?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
What do I say here?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yes? I need them to give me the words.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
How have you ever managed to do four years of podcasting?
It's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
What editing does?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, Jing an amazing job. I am pretty good. I
so so to pick up on your point here, though,
what our children need is they don't need a problem
solving conversation, No, they need an emotion conversation.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
When we tell our kids that they have no choice
or they have to do something. So in my case,
it was just constantly, you're a big girl, you need
to make the phone call, And I.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Felt I said that more than once after we were married.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Have a choice, we actually feed the anxiety exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I'm thinking I'm having flashbacks to Inside Out too right now,
and just that it's such a beautiful movie about dealing
with it. Obviously, we talked about it on the sixteenth
of jan I think it was in our Thursday Morning episode.
The way that anxiety takes over and that's what's happening
with this little guy. Okay, he's only five years old.
He's about start score probably the next week or so,
and he's thinking the buttons, the buttons are out to
(05:53):
get me. Whatever's going through his mind, we're never quite
going to know. And even if you sit down and say,
tell me what it is about the buttons, that four
year old or that five year old, I guarantee will
not be able to articulate why the buttons are scary,
why the buttons are causing anxiety. It's possible, as you've
said that over the last couple of years, especially in
(06:14):
the last little while, by highlighting you've got no choice,
it's going to happen. That doesn't tend to reduce anxiety,
tends to exacerbate and build it. So our job is
to validate before problem solving. I'm not into the gentle
parenting craze. I've been accused of being a gentle parenting
proponent for a long long time, and it's usually by
people who are gentle parents and love gentle parenting. My
(06:37):
sense is that if you do gentle parenting right, it's wonderful,
but too many people don't do it right. And I'm
more interested in supporting needs, being a need supportive parent
than a gentle parent. And a need support in this
context is saying this is really tough, isn't it. Or
you're really scared, aren't you? Or every time we go
(06:58):
to put that shirt on, you have a little mini
meltdown because it worries you, doesn't it? And just having
your child here, you articulate that, enunciate the words describe
the problem, not fix it, just describe it makes them
go yeah, yeah, that's actually that's right. If you try
to go logical then and say well, why don't you
(07:19):
tell me why, they won't have an answer because even
for them, they're feeling it, but they don't know, and
they will literally just cry and they'll get anxious because
they can't ask the question. But that's our first, stop
right there. This is hard for you. Just describe, say
what you see.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Two weeks ago, I shared a story about me and
my anxiety around having to climb a telegraph pole.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
For context, for those of you who missed the podcast
a couple of weeks ago, you're climbing a telegraph pole
because you were on a retreat and it was one
of the activities, and you were harnessed in, and the
objective was to get to the top of the pole
just in case someone thinks you're doing.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And recognize that our fears are often quite irrational.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, like buttons were completely We're.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Completely safe, completely strapped in, and yet the thought of
actually getting on top of that telegraph pole was so
intense for me to nearly ten minutes, yeah, ten minutes
to do it. But what I loved about, I guess
my reflection of it was that in that moment, I
didn't need people, a whole heap of people at the
bottom screaming at me telling I could do it and
(08:25):
that everything was going to be okay. What I appreciated
and needed and was given was the quiet patience of
my mentor at the bottom just said, take a deep breath, Kuyly.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
You've got this, You've got this. The phrase quiet patience
is what resonates for me. After the break on the
Happy Families podcast, we'll look at seven action steps to
help your kids regardless of what they're afraid of, to
have those brave button moments, Kylie, I have seven action
(09:02):
steps that are going to help any parent whose children
are struggling. But before that, I really want to step
into just a couple of take home messages from what
we've discussed, because we've covered some really good stuff here.
First thing, children's fears, no matter how irrational they might seem,
are genuinely frightening to them.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Well, they're real to them.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Correct, So when you say don't worry, you're being silly,
calm down, there's nothing to worry about. That doesn't help them.
That makes them feel like, now there's something wrong with
them because they are worried about it and they're not calm,
and they can't seem to act on your instructions.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, it also teaches them that you don't understand exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Second, really key point, try to have rational conversations with
an emotional child is generally going to be counterproductive, and
telling them to calm down so you can have a rational,
logical conversation is also going to be counterproductive. We need
to see them in that space and literally say this
is really hard for you, isn't it, and give them
a hug, help them to be calm, and then move
forward to It's like that conversation we had the other
(10:00):
week with Charles douhig. Do you want to be helped?
Do you want to hug or do you want to
be heard? Third thing, you've already mentioned this, but it's
a key point that we've got to be really clear on.
Telling kids that they have no choice is going to
increase their anxiety. It's not going to reduce it. Fourth thing,
Creating emotional safety is what we have to do before
(10:20):
we address the fear. Once we've created the emotional safety,
that's when we get to have the conversation and say,
all right, this is really tricky. What's our way forward?
How are we going to address this final point gentle exposure.
Gentle exposure to the buttons or to the puppy dog,
or to the man with a beard or whatever it
is that your child might be afraid of gentle exposure.
Lots of you, what was the word you used about patience,
(10:44):
quiet patient, gentle exposure, quiet patience much more effective than
some sort of a forced confrontation. Do kids sometimes have
to do really hard things? Of course they do. Sometimes
you've just got to push through it. Sometimes you do
have to suck it up, Princess, but more often than
not they don't.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You've just taken me back to my childcare days and
the idea of exposing children to different mediums. I wonder
what it will look like to use buttons in your art,
Whether it be at first he might not want to
touch one, but you could attach one to the end
of a cork and use that as a stamp that
(11:23):
he could use to create patterns on his page. As
he gets a bit more comfortable with it, you might
do some button sorting, or you might actually do a
button art work at college.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
The buttons could be the center of flowers or the sun.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
There's so many different things that you could do where
he actually starts to see maybe with school coming up,
you go to the shops and you actually go and
find a beautiful button that you could sew into the
inside of his pants that he could touch and know
that that represents Mum. Like every time he's feeling a
little bit lost or anything, he can just hold onto
that button inside his pants and that mum's thinking of
(12:01):
him and loves him. There are so many different ways
that you could play with this, and you have so
much fun.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You could teach him to use a needle and thread
and sew buttons and turn that into a craft project
or a fun weekend activity. I know that sounds weird,
but little kids, four year old, five year old kids,
they would probably be like, I get to sit with
my parents and use a like a needle has risk
associated with it, This becomes a really fun potential. It
could also exacerbate the anxiety because now he's going to
(12:26):
be scared of needles and pins and buttons. But I'm
getting ahead of myself, Kylie. We need to wrap this up.
If I was to talk about specific action steps for parents,
this is what I'd be encouraging. Number one. Acknowledge the fear,
but don't try to talk them out of it, because
your logic is not going to be helpful. Number two,
create the emotional safety before addressing the fear. Number three,
(12:50):
look for and celebrate brave moments that your child might have.
Number four, let your child develop salut with you. Don't
give them solutions, let them develop those solutions with you.
Number five, find alternative practical solutions. So, Kylie, you've talked
about all the therapeutic options that might work, and I
(13:11):
love that. Another simple solution could be maybe he can
wear a sports uniform. I know that some sports uniforms
have buttons on the polo or whatever, but two buttons
is better than four or the different fabric. Joanne said
that he was okay wearing a jumper over the top
of the buttons, so there are definitely some options here
that could be tried. I think if it becomes really
(13:33):
really challenging, you've got to work with the school to
find accommodations where you needed. You might even want to
talk to a counselor. I don't reckon a psychologist is needed.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I wouldn't have thought that a psychologist would be a
first point of call, but I also think that there
are plenty of other therapies out there that could be helpful.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And it has been going on for a couple of years,
so maybe if you're not making any headway, it might
be helpful to get some professional involvement. And last of all,
I think we should just remember that most child good
fears resolve with quiet patients and some compassionate support.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I think the one thing to remember is, firstly, we've
got to be kind to ourselves as parents. Our kids
are going through a hard thing and sometimes that creates
hard challenges for us as parents. But secondly, we're so
used to having quick fixes. We're so used to having
answers at the ready. Because you know we've got a problem,
We've go on to Google and in an instant we've
(14:26):
got fifteen, twenty hundreds of ideas to work with. So
we're used to having answers placed in our lap. And
the reality is our kids aren't. They're not cookie cutters.
Every single one of them is different. Every single one
of them has their own perks, their own quirks, and
they are individual in their response to the world. And
(14:47):
so if we just give them the time to work
themselves out with gentle, quiet patients, I think that we'll
actually find that life is much better for everybody.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
If you'd like to submit a tricky question, we've got
a super simple system at happy families dot com dot au.
Just go to the website, scroll down to podcasts, click
the record button and start talking. The Happy Families podcast
is produced by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media. If you
would like more information and more resources to make your
(15:17):
family happy at visit us at happy families dot com
dot au
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