Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
What's the name of that really fancy store that the
kids love to go and spend money out, like they'd
set up camp if they could so they can buy
their makeup.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
As like Mecca.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Mecca? Is that the one with the big black Yeah?
Today today? What do you do when your child wants
to spend all of their money and all of your
money on makeup and they're only seven or eleven or
whatever it is that they're too young you think for
them to be wearing makeup? Gooday, and welcome to the
Happy Families Podcast, Real parenting Solutions Every day on Australia's
(00:36):
most downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson,
and every Tuesday on the pod we answer your tricky questions,
whether it's family or relationships, or screens or the kids
wearing makeup. All you need to do to submit a
question is send us a voice message, use a voice
note app on your phone, send it through to info
(00:56):
at Happyfamilies dot com dot au. Just like this anonymous
listener did, what.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Age is it appropriate to wear makeup? My daughter's eleven
twelve in September and she loves wearing eye makeup. Only
she's homeschooled, so she's only wearing it to church on Sunday.
I don't wear any of it, and I really think
she is too young for that. What would be the
best way to talk to her? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, Kylie, we have six daughters. I feel like we're
qualified to talk about this one outside of any pairing
books and PhDs in psychology, not ever else where do
you want to start? I kind of want to handle
this straight to you, as the female, the matriarch of
our family, and the one who has dealt with this
probably more than me.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, I'm going to counter her tricky question with one
of my own. Oh right, Okay, why do you think
that makeup is one of those trigger point topics for
so many parents? I want to say moms, But I
can tell you I have had so many conversations with
dads who are actually more I'm going to use the
word militant about their girls wearing makeup than even their
(01:59):
partners are.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah. So, there's a bit of research around this, and
it indicates that most parents that worry about makeup usually
they do come from more conservative backgrounds. So church, that
doesn't surprise me to hear that. Nevertheless, it's not isolated
to just that conservative background, but research would indicate that
parents worry about it because of a couple of things.
Number one, and certainly this has been the issue for
(02:23):
me when our daughters have started to experiment with makeup,
is you just don't want them to grow up too soon.
And especially there's a sense that beauty standards and self
worth are interconnected. So if I feel like I'm not
enough as I am, I'm only enough when I'm wearing
this mask that I put on as a dad. I
want my kids to know that they're beautiful without it.
(02:44):
They don't need it, They're just they're wonderful. And the
research certainly suggests that I'm not Robinson Cruso there, I'm
not living on an island on my own. Other really
big ones though that data point to revolve around childhood innocence.
So a lot of parents view make up as part
of adult or at least teenage self presentation, and they
(03:09):
worry that kids are just growing up too fast. It
could be premature sexualization or premature adult behaviors. And I
think all of that sort of leans into this idea
that some parents just see makeup as a gateway to
having this broader. I'm a parents focused, I'm socially pressured.
(03:29):
I need to look a certain way. My value is
tied to how I look My read on the research
around this as a wonderful book by Renee Engirl. It's
called Beauty Sick. It's still probably my top ten books
of all time. It's brilliantly written, incredibly written, and she
unpacks a whole lot more of that which we could
go into. But I don't think that will answer this
(03:49):
question quite so well. I know you weren't asking for
a long answer. I'm sorry I went on as long
as I did. You're looking at me like, h now,
I've got no time left to talk.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
In Stephen Covey's book The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People,
he tells this story about a man who marries into
a family and one day his wife is making a
lamb roast and he walks in while she's doing it,
and he notices that she cuts both ends off the
lamb roast, and he thinks, that's really weird.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
What a waste of meat.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Why do you do that? And she said, well, that's
the way my mum always did it. He thought, this
is a bit weird. So he decided to give her
a call and he said to her, mum, why do
you cut the ends off your lamb roast? And she said, well,
that's the way my mum always did it. And so
he called the grandma and said, I was watching my
wife make the lamb ROAs the other night and she
(04:40):
cuts the ends off the lamb rose and her mum said,
was because that's how you taught it to do it.
Why did you do it? And she said, well, back
when they were younger, she said, we had a really
small oven and it wouldn't fit in the oven if
I didn't cut the ends off. So her decision to
cut the ends off the lamb roast was practical for
the time, but not necess necessarily needful moving forward. It
(05:02):
was just something that had been passed down from generation
to generation without ever questioning why. And so you've shared
a couple of things here that are really important. You know,
the idea that we want to keep our children innocent
for as long as possible, and that we want them
to not grow up so.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Fast and not be focused on physical appearance. For me,
that's the big one. Don't just trust that you're beautiful,
putting that on is not going to make you more
valuable at all, And if you think that it will,
then you're going to be chasing it forever and never satisfied.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
But I wonder whether this huge emphasis that we have
on the fact that our kids shouldn't be wearing it
is something that's just been passed down from generation to
generation and we're not willing to actually sit in that
hard place and actually think about it from their perspective
in the world we live in now and how it
impacts them. Well.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It certainly the more you push back, the more controlling
you are around it, the more it feels like forbidden fruit.
It makes the kids want it more. Force creates resistance.
So after the break, we're going to talk about how
you can get to the bottom of this, talk with
your kids effectively and safely about it and help them
to navigate this desire, this challenge in a healthy way.
(06:23):
We're back as a Happy Famili's podcast, and today it's
the perennial problem of kids wanting to wear makeup before
their parents feel like they're ready for it. So Colie,
today I've had this over to you today. What are
our action steps if we're parents who want our kids
to have a healthy approach to self image, but they
(06:43):
really want to explore makeup.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So this is actually very interesting because out of six children,
we have only had one who has been just gun ho,
very intense about her desire to wear makeup from an
earlier age than I was comfortable with.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So at first four not really that interested. They've all
had moments, right, but normally as they've been a bit
older and they've started to experiment with makeup a bit, but.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Well, the general rule in our home has been fourteen.
I would let them wear makeup from the time that
they were fourteen, and so I actually pre armed them
at the time they turned fourteen. I brought them a
little makeup bag and they got them some Missca and
a little bit of foundation and some blush and a
clearer kind of you know, soft colored lip closs.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You said, you know, I don't know, I have no
idea what you're talking about, and.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That kind of appeased most of them, And to be honest,
because I am not a makeup wearer, our kids haven't.
It hasn't been a big deal. They've wanted on special
occasions and we've actually got away.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
With it really easy until that one until number five
came along, loves.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
It and from the time she was about eleven.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I was going to say, from the time she was
about two, that's what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
She was obsessed, absolutely obsessed with it.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
To order our action steps. If we've got a parent
who's really worried and does want the kids to grow
up too fast, and has an eleven year old who's saying,
but I want to wear it all, what do you reckon?
Because you've had more of these conversations with the kids
that I have.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's probably going to sound like we're on repeat, but
it really is the three e's.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
It sounds like you've been talking to a parenting expert. Explore,
explain in power. That's what you write down in your sheet.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
That is what I wrote down. Okay, so the first
one is explore. This is just this is such an
awesome conversation. We get to get curious instead of furious
with them because they've got this desire. We get to
explore what it is that's motivating this desire and need.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I think it's really interesting that you said that we
want to get curious, not furious. This is one of
those things where parents do get upset yeah, And when
you think about what I was saying earlier, it kind
of makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Your child wants to do something, you're uncomfortable with it
because you feel like they're losing their innocence, they're growing
up too fast. There they're putting the focus on their
external appearance rather than the internal character. And there's all
of these moralistic and values laid in judgments that you're
putting on your child because they want to wear makeup.
And therefore, as a parent, you go, you don't believe
in yourself, and you're completely externally focused and blow up.
(09:13):
I mean, you don't actually say those words, but underneath
the emotion, no, you're not wearing makeup, you're too young.
Underneath that is all this fear. My child's getting older,
my child's focused in the wrong places, and so on,
my child's becoming increasingly sexualized. That drives I was going
to say furiosity instead of curiosity, but I feel like
(09:34):
I've just become mad mags furiosa. That drives the reprimand
rather than the understand. Oh gosh, there I go again.
So when we talk, for those who are not familiar
with the three is of effective discipline, it means that
we explore their world, like you said, Kylie, we explain
where we're coming from them. We empower them to come
up with a solution or a structure, a framework, or
a system that we can all feel good about. We
(09:54):
work on solutions together.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
What's interesting to me is we've got this idea that
makeup as all of these negative things in our children's lives.
And yet I would say that every single one of
us encourages our children on a day to day basis
to put their best foot forward and to dress smartly
and represent themselves well. And yet do your hair, touch
(10:17):
yourself in or one hundred percent? And then there is
an absolute counter to that as soon as they say, well,
I just want to add a bit of color to
my cheeks or put some lipstick on.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
You know what I'm thinking, as I'm listening to say this,
we haven't. You've prepped this, and I had no idea
where you were going to go with it. I wonder
what a twenty four year old Kylie would say if
she could hear mid forties Missus Happy Families saying this
about her daughter's wearing makeup from the age of eleven.
My sense is that as we have raised six daughters.
(10:51):
We've learnt not to sweat the small stuff and our
senses that making a big deal about makeup is perhaps
a bit unnecessary. It's not nearly as much big stuff
as it might seem to be.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I remember one day one of our younger kids coming
home from school and they had a sex question and
it was about two kids at school. And she asked
me about this thing. She was a bit worked up
about it. That's will tell me what does that mean
to you? And she told me what it meant, which
was absolutely and entirely different.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
There's so many funny memes where that sort of thing happened.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So different from the actual meaning.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
The parents start going into this big story and then they, oh,
the kid did not mean that at all.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And so that's why this explore conversation is so important,
because what you think is the motivation behind them wearing
makeup is probably not their motivation.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
And if it is, you get to have the conversation
with them and explore more, explore, explain empower. That's I mean,
if I was answering the question and I did I
literally put this one on you today, I would go
in the same direction precisely and I would all also
say we used to care about this a great deal,
and while I still think that it is a relevant
and important question, I still think that it matters, and
(12:08):
I do think we need to take it seriously because
it can be associated with a bunch of things that
lead to kids growing up too soon. My sense is
that if we take a really mature, really easy approach
to it, our children will respond really well to it.
There won't be any of that resistance around it, and
they'll end up having a healthy relationship around self image
(12:28):
and self presentation and so on. So to our anonymous voicemailer,
thank you so much for the question. We love answering
your questions and we hope that helps. If you'd like
to submit a tricky question, you've got two options. Either
use the super simple system at happy families dot com
dot you just scrolled out of podcasts, click the record
button and start talking, or alternatively, send us a voice
(12:49):
note to info at happy families dot com dot au.
The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin ruland from
Bridge Media. You'll find more resources and a bunch more
information about making your family happier, including the Misconnection Summit,
all about raising healthy, happy, resilient teen girls at happy
families dot com dot a