April 16, 2025 • 17 mins
Consent isn’t just a conversation for teens—it starts from birth and evolves with every stage of childhood. In this important episode, Justin and Kylie Coulson unpack how to teach kids about consent from zero to adolescence. From tickle fights to tricky teen moments, this is your guide to raising respectful, confident kids who know their rights, understand boundaries, and feel empowered to speak up.
KEY POINTS:
-
Consent starts early: young children can learn body autonomy through everyday routines like bath time and tickling.
-
Children should be taught they have a voice and their boundaries matter—even with trusted adults and relatives.
-
From ages 6–12, focus on body language, verbal/non-verbal cues, and respect in friendships.
-
For teenagers, conversations shift to romantic relationships, digital safety, and clear, enthusiastic consent.
-
Consent is not a one-off talk—it’s an ongoing conversation based on empathy, safety, and empowerment.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:
“If the person you’re with won’t be excited about what happened tomorrow, that’s not consent.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
-
Consent Can’t Wait – National campaign with age-appropriate, inclusive resources.
-
Happy Families website – happyfamilies.com.au
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS:
-
Start early: Give your child opportunities to express preferences about hugs, play, and physical affection.
-
Use everyday language to explain consent during routines like dressing or bathing.
-
Teach kids to read body language and respect “no”—even when it's non-verbal.
-
Give your teens the tools to navigate peer pressure, digital safety, and intimacy with clarity and confidence.
-
Remind your children that they owe no one access to their body—ever.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
We're having a conversation about consent for a couple of reasons.
Number one, the Australian Government's campaign Consent Can't Wait is
out and about. You can find the website which we
will link to in the show notes literally Consent dot Au.
I'm an ambassador for the Consent Can't Wait campaign and
have recorded a whole bunch of commercials that you've seeing
(00:26):
around the place, Consent Can't Wait. It's a really important conversation.
Most people agree that consent is key to healthy sexual experiences,
but a lot of people struggle to understand what consent means.
I know, we think we know what's going on, but
there's much more to consent than what most people know.
So today a conversation about the nuances of consent and
specifically how we can raise these important issues with our children,
(00:50):
with the kids and teenagers in our lives. And we're
going to go through a stage by stage, Kylie, so
you guide us from stage to stage and I'll add
the main ideas, and I'm sure you'll have plenty to
say because you've helped me to raise them. In fact,
primarily you've raised our six daughters. What do you want
to start? I guess at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, let's start with zero to five. This is, in
my mind, this is a little bit of a gray
area when it comes to consent.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
What do you mean by gray area?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I think that there is definitely a wide perception that
as young children that it's okay to kiss and cuddle
and all of those things because they're gorgeous, right, pinch
their cheeks.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, not just that, But if you listen to the
old folks talk back radio, what you'll often hear is
people getting upset when conversations around this come up. They're like,
they're my grandkids. I'll kiss them and cudle them if
I want. Yeah, So I guess the easiest way that
I would talk about this is consent starts at the
beginning with conversations around body safety and what consent is
(01:51):
and boundaries. The other one that always gets people upset
is the whole nappy changing thing, or the tickling kids
or rough housing with kids, that sort of thing. So
let's go through each of those. First off, I want
to start with tickling and rough housing because this one
really gets people up in arms. If the kids are
saying stop or don't, then just say okay and stop.
And what happens, of course, is that the children about
(02:13):
three seconds later, as long as the tickling and rough
housing was appropriate, about half a second latter, to say
again again again, like they love it, but sometimes it's
just too much. And when we let them know that
if they ask us to stop, that we will stop.
We're literally teaching them that their voice matters, that they
have agency, they have power, and they can choose for
themselves what activities they're involved in and what activities they're
(02:35):
not involved in. That's the whole idea of teaching consents
children aged zero to five. It's not that you're the
same with changing an happy, right, the idea that you're supposed
to ask your child if you can change their happy
I don't think that that's useful, especially if your child
is pre verbal.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I was about to say three months, six months.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's right. But what you can do is you can
describe what you're doing and why you're doing it and
help them to understand that. It's the same with bathtime. Right,
Even before consent became a major issue, you I always
said to the kids, because I used to love bath time,
and I used toll love bathing the kids. I loved scrubbing
them with the I was going to say the scourer,
that's with the loofer. Sorry, love the loof of their
(03:12):
back and all that sort of thing. But when it
came to their private parts, I'd always say, do you
want to wash the private parts or do you want
me to and give them the opportunity to have a
voice and have a choice from the age of like
two or three or whatever it was. Well, because I'm
their dad and I just don't feel like i'm even
though it's appropriate that they be washed there, I think
I always thought they needed to have a voice. And
that's the idea of this.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You think we can take it to the extreme, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I do. I do, And I think that's why when
people do take it to extremes. I think that's why
the talk back radio lines light up and all the
grandparents get on and say this is ridiculous and what's
the world coming to? And back in my day, that's
where it becomes unhelpful. But when we have a really
sensible approach to it, and that is I'm going to
explain to my child what's going on, or to the
extent that they can choose, I'm going to give them
every opportunity to use their voice, and I'll honor that.
(03:58):
It's the same with hugging and kissing. This came up
with your parents just recently with our youngest who is
now ten, and she just said, I love hugs. I
love hugging man like she was really she was so
enthusiastic about it. She was so excited about it. But
your mum, and I'm really impressed by this. Your mum
has started saying, is it okay if I give you
a hug? Like she started asking, And it's not hard
(04:21):
to do it. When you look at your grandkids and
you say would you like a hug and they come
running into your arms, you get a pretty clear signal
that they're okay with a hug. And that's the idea
of consent. It's about letting kids know that they have
a voice and that their preferences matter, they should be considered.
I actually think that it's the height, the height of arrogance,
the height of rudeness, and the height of entitlement when
(04:42):
a grandparent says, I don't care if you want a
hug or not. You're giving me a hug, like that's
inappropriate and I'm not trying to sound like a wowsy here.
Just by every measure of what consent is about, that's
simply inappropriate. And so the people who are doing this
on the talkback radio stations and getting upset about it,
if they just pause and consider how they feel if
someone puts their arms around them without consent. It feels
(05:06):
pretty icky, it feels pretty gross.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I know growing up it wasn't just me and my family,
but I was raised in a be respectful of adults,
and everyone in our circles was deemed family. If they
were close friends, they were an auntie or an uncle
because that was a respectful way to talk to them
and acknowledge them.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
A lot of that comes from that kin based traditional
New Zealand Maori heritage, right, I mean, that's the way
family is. Everyone is an auntie or an uncle or
a cousin, and let's face it, they probably are, and
when you see them, you're supposed to embrace them and
kiss them and do all of those traditional things. That's
how it always has been.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But the challenge for me as a young child was
most of those people I'd never seen before or I
see once a year, And so the idea of bringing
them into my personal space. Even as a five year old,
it felt wrong, like it didn't really confront h. I
didn't feel comfortable. I didn't. You're not my mom, you're
not my dad, You're not someone I trust. This is
(06:10):
a really tricky space. So for us, as we've raised
our children, it has always been an acknowledgement no one
is an auntie and uncle unless they're an auntie or
uncle for starters. But they've never been forced in any way,
shape or form to acknowledge them with a hugener kiss
if it's not what they want to do. So if
we move forward from our zero to five, we're looking
(06:31):
at six to maybe thirteen to our early teens.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, primary school, primary school age kids, So this is
where the consent. I mean, you'll know that with young kids,
we're not having conversations about consent and intimacy. Yeah, we're
simply teaching respect and body bound reason. If someone says no,
it means no, and that kind of thing. It's really
basic stuff. I don't think there's anything controversial or provocative
about this. Again, I don't understand why people get that
upset about it. In terms of primary school, the conversation
(06:56):
shifts a little bit, primarily because social networks expand, our
kids are they're going to know more people. But there's
also the possibility that's going to be conflict. But I
want to do this, my friend wants to do that,
and we've got this conflict here, and consent becomes more
about social relationships and activity based conversations and that kind
(07:18):
of thing, healthy friendships and how to just engage respectfully
with other people. I think at this point we can
start to teach our kids about verbal and nonverbal communication.
This is a really powerful way to help kids to
communicate consent. I like this, I don't like this. Body
language gives us that insight into how someone's feeling, and
if we can help kids to tune into what other
(07:40):
people are showing, that can be really profoundly useful. I
remember speaking with a colleague of mine some years ago
who said that when she was about fifteen or sixteen,
she was on a bus. She was the only person
on the bus, and a guy got on who was
probably a young adult, and saw her sitting there, just
a girl on her own on the bus, and literally
(08:02):
went and sat on the seat beside her, which is
such a such a power.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I was about to say that, big power play.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Big power play. But if we have the capacity to
read other people's body language, like she shrank, she moved
as close to the window as she could. I mean,
and he sort of what is it when a man.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Spread He clearly he clearly didn't care.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
What she totally totally. But the idea is if we
can teach people to read one another better and have
some empathy around that, not just the skill of reading
other people, but the empathy that accompanies that, then we
can help them to understand the nonverbal elements of consent
as well. Oh, this person's stiffening up, this person's moving away,
this person's not making eye contact, this person's looking worried.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
This person and voice is saying yes, but everything about
their body is screaming no.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Right, And I think that's really what we're looking at here.
How can we communicate boundaries effectively? Teaching kids to develop
their identity, to develop a voice, to be willing to
say no, to think critically about what they see online,
to think about who they're talking to, and to engage respectfully.
That that's for me, the primary school age sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So this is a really tricky space. This idea of
giving our children a voice. For a lot of parents,
we just want compliance, right, We want them to do
what we ask when we ask them to do it,
because that makes our life easy. And I know that
that was the kind of home I was raised in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So when our children reach school age and they started
having opinions about things, my parents really were taken back
(09:35):
by that. Are you going to stamp that as because
that's not how I was raised? And yes, it causes
some conflict and contention in your home as you try
to navigate the challenge of your children having a voice
and telling you they don't want to do something you
clearly know number one is good for them and number
two needs to be done in order for the family
to function whatever it is. But I think there is
(09:58):
so much power. Think about just that friend of yours
and being on the bus. What a difference it would
have made to her if she knew that she was
well within her rights to either ask him to move
or to stand up.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Stand up away, Yeah, go sit right next to the
bus driver, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And so for me, as a mum of girls, that's
what I'm trying to achieve. I'm trying to help my
girls recognize and know that their voice matters number one
and number two. If they have absolute clarity on who
they are and who they want to be, then they
will have confidence in their ability to speak that when
the time comes.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So that's a pretty good segue to move into the
adolescence and secondary school age group. Let's talk about teenagers.
I've spoken just too many girls. I've spoken to too
many girls who have told me that they've acquiesced that
they've gone long when a boy that they've been with
has put pressure on them to engage in any kind
of intimacy because they felt like they had to. They
(11:01):
felt like they couldn't say no. They felt like this
was how they proved that they loved him.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
The devastation in this though, is the girls walk away
feeling guilty.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeahs, the girls are the ones that walk away and
they feel like they're dirty or unworthy or that.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Or I said yes, so therefore I deserved what I
got right right. It's a devastating place to be.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So if we transition into these adolescent years, we start
to talk about romantic relationships. This is I think this
is the most important zone. But it works best if
we've built a foundation where kids already know that their
voice matters and that they're allowed to say no critical
things here around consent number one, you can say yes
(11:43):
and then change your mind. If you withdraw consent, then
there is no consent. Consent is gone. And these are
the things that we've got to talk about kids about.
We've got to talk to them about how if there's
any alcohol or other drugs involved and therefore or that
any kind of impairment, or a person doesn't have the capacity,
then they can't and sand if they don't have the maturity,
(12:03):
if they're not old enough, they can't consent. Navigating consent
is sometimes just so much more complicated than do I
have permission? In fact permission. The example that I use
here when I'm talking to parents about this stuff is
the kids now and then we'll come to me and say, hey, Dad,
can I have fifty dollars so that I can go
and watch a movie and get some grilled at burger
(12:26):
and some chips. And I don't want to give the
kids fifty bucks, like that's a really expensive night out,
but that's how much it costs for a burger and
chips and a movie at the local cinema. But eventually
I roll my eyes and say, sure, take the fifty bucks. Now.
Is that consent? Really? Like, it's a pretty low bar.
(12:46):
And so when I and we probably need to talk
about kids again about this becau's been a while. These
are not one and done conversations. But if the person
that you're with is not going to be excited about
what happened tomorrow, then I think that's not consent. I
like drawing two circles of end diagram, you know where
(13:07):
they're two overlapping circles, yep, And in one circle you've
got the words what I want, and in another circle you've
got the words what they want. And the bit where
they overlap is what we want, and that's consent. And
if you start to push into another zone, then that
ceases to be consent. I just think this is such
an important conversation, especially when teenagers are engaged in sending
(13:28):
images to one another or going to parties and there's
all those sorts of pressure. So I just I mean,
there's so much more we could talk about. This is
not a paid advertisement, but I want to refer people
to consent dot gov dot au. Like I said, I
am an ambassador for it, and the work that they're
doing is really good. It's really smart work. Myself. Chanel
(13:48):
Kontos is also an ambassador. Dan Prince Pay who speaks
about pornography in schools all around the country, he's also
an ambassador, and Chantel Otten is also an ambassador. So
it's a pretty power patch forsome who are really trying
to push this consent conversation and it matters consent dot
gov dot AU.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So what about families in my minority situations?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, Actually, there's a bunch of resources that they've got
there as well, and I think it's really great. There's
some stuff First Nations families, which is brilliant if English
is not your first language. There's some really good resources
for people who just need stuff super simple, and they've
done a really smart job of that. And there's also
some resources for lgbt Q plus populations as well. Interestingly,
(14:33):
consent is in some circumstances that's navigated brilliantly, and other
circumstances it's absolutely atrocious, and so there's really great resources
for all of those as well. Let's wrap this up
with some final tips. Kylie, have the conversations from the
start folks on ethics and empathy and rights and bodily autonomy.
I mean, that's the very crux of it. And if
(14:54):
we start those conversations at the very beginning, our kids
at least know and understand what we're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Give your kids a voice, Give them a voice. Yeah,
from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And I think if you've got daughters, given that we've
got six of them, teaching them that they do not
owe anything to anybody, especially once they get into adolescents
and start to have an interest in boyfriends, girlfriends, partners, whatever,
they need to know you just you don't owe them anything.
You don't have to say yes to anything. There's no obligation.
Just because they bought you dinner, or just because they
(15:23):
bought your milkshake, or just because they bought you a
two dollars slurpy from seven to eleven doesn't mean that
you owe them anything at all. You're welcome to say
no every single day until you're ready to start say yes.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And their whole just because they're them, like they're not
waiting for Prince Charming to come and sweep them off
their feet. They are whole and worthy right now.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, as themselves And the last thing I'd say is
this education and conversations about consent are not going to
stop the sexual violence challenges that we have in Australia
all on its own. We do need more than that,
So we need to have these conversations around are the
areas like our a whole and other drugs and if
you're raising boys, it really I mean, girls are the
(16:06):
break boys are the accelerator, and we've got to teach
them that that's the way it's always been and it
shouldn't always be that way. That they're not to be
the accelerator. And if they are going to be the accelerator,
they're not allowed to. The whole idea is you don't
just put the pedal to the metal. It's not about
flooring it. It's about having a really, really healthy kind
of control and sticking to the speed limit metaphorically speaking,
(16:29):
letting them know as well that the pain of regret
as a perpetrator will probably be pretty substantial. Imagine what
it's going to be like when you've got daughters, how
you're going to feel, how protective you'll feel, and how
would you feel if your daughter was dating a guy
like you? Would you be excited because you know they're
going to be safe, or would you be terrified because
you know what you're like. So I think those kinds
(16:51):
of conversations matter. I'm not calling boys perpetrators, by the way,
I'm not calling girls victims. But I think that if
we can have these conversations, we're going to have fewer
perpetrators and for your vicoy and that's a good thing
all around. So that's a conversation, A bit of a
long one, bit of a heavy one. More details at
consent dot gov dot a you. The Happy Families podcast
is produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media All the
details that you need for more on this topic or
(17:12):
at consent dot gov dot au. And if you'd like
more information about making your family happier, visit us at
happy families dot com dot au.
We're having a conversation about consent for a couple of reasons.
Number one, the Australian Government's campaign Consent Can't Wait is
out and about. You can find the website which we
will link to in the show notes literally Consent dot Au.
I'm an ambassador for the Consent Can't Wait campaign and
have recorded a whole bunch of commercials that you've seeing
(00:26):
around the place, Consent Can't Wait. It's a really important conversation.
Most people agree that consent is key to healthy sexual experiences,
but a lot of people struggle to understand what consent means.
I know, we think we know what's going on, but
there's much more to consent than what most people know.
So today a conversation about the nuances of consent and
specifically how we can raise these important issues with our children,
(00:50):
with the kids and teenagers in our lives. And we're
going to go through a stage by stage, Kylie, so
you guide us from stage to stage and I'll add
the main ideas, and I'm sure you'll have plenty to
say because you've helped me to raise them. In fact,
primarily you've raised our six daughters. What do you want
to start? I guess at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, let's start with zero to five. This is, in
my mind, this is a little bit of a gray
area when it comes to consent.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
What do you mean by gray area?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I think that there is definitely a wide perception that
as young children that it's okay to kiss and cuddle
and all of those things because they're gorgeous, right, pinch
their cheeks.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, not just that, But if you listen to the
old folks talk back radio, what you'll often hear is
people getting upset when conversations around this come up. They're like,
they're my grandkids. I'll kiss them and cudle them if
I want. Yeah, So I guess the easiest way that
I would talk about this is consent starts at the
beginning with conversations around body safety and what consent is
(01:51):
and boundaries. The other one that always gets people upset
is the whole nappy changing thing, or the tickling kids
or rough housing with kids, that sort of thing. So
let's go through each of those. First off, I want
to start with tickling and rough housing because this one
really gets people up in arms. If the kids are
saying stop or don't, then just say okay and stop.
And what happens, of course, is that the children about
(02:13):
three seconds later, as long as the tickling and rough
housing was appropriate, about half a second latter, to say
again again again, like they love it, but sometimes it's
just too much. And when we let them know that
if they ask us to stop, that we will stop.
We're literally teaching them that their voice matters, that they
have agency, they have power, and they can choose for
themselves what activities they're involved in and what activities they're
(02:35):
not involved in. That's the whole idea of teaching consents
children aged zero to five. It's not that you're the
same with changing an happy, right, the idea that you're supposed
to ask your child if you can change their happy
I don't think that that's useful, especially if your child
is pre verbal.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I was about to say three months, six months.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's right. But what you can do is you can
describe what you're doing and why you're doing it and
help them to understand that. It's the same with bathtime. Right,
Even before consent became a major issue, you I always
said to the kids, because I used to love bath time,
and I used toll love bathing the kids. I loved scrubbing
them with the I was going to say the scourer,
that's with the loofer. Sorry, love the loof of their
(03:12):
back and all that sort of thing. But when it
came to their private parts, I'd always say, do you
want to wash the private parts or do you want
me to and give them the opportunity to have a
voice and have a choice from the age of like
two or three or whatever it was. Well, because I'm
their dad and I just don't feel like i'm even
though it's appropriate that they be washed there, I think
I always thought they needed to have a voice. And
that's the idea of this.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You think we can take it to the extreme, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I do. I do, And I think that's why when
people do take it to extremes. I think that's why
the talk back radio lines light up and all the
grandparents get on and say this is ridiculous and what's
the world coming to? And back in my day, that's
where it becomes unhelpful. But when we have a really
sensible approach to it, and that is I'm going to
explain to my child what's going on, or to the
extent that they can choose, I'm going to give them
every opportunity to use their voice, and I'll honor that.
(03:58):
It's the same with hugging and kissing. This came up
with your parents just recently with our youngest who is
now ten, and she just said, I love hugs. I
love hugging man like she was really she was so
enthusiastic about it. She was so excited about it. But
your mum, and I'm really impressed by this. Your mum
has started saying, is it okay if I give you
a hug? Like she started asking, And it's not hard
(04:21):
to do it. When you look at your grandkids and
you say would you like a hug and they come
running into your arms, you get a pretty clear signal
that they're okay with a hug. And that's the idea
of consent. It's about letting kids know that they have
a voice and that their preferences matter, they should be considered.
I actually think that it's the height, the height of arrogance,
the height of rudeness, and the height of entitlement when
(04:42):
a grandparent says, I don't care if you want a
hug or not. You're giving me a hug, like that's
inappropriate and I'm not trying to sound like a wowsy here.
Just by every measure of what consent is about, that's
simply inappropriate. And so the people who are doing this
on the talkback radio stations and getting upset about it,
if they just pause and consider how they feel if
someone puts their arms around them without consent. It feels
(05:06):
pretty icky, it feels pretty gross.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I know growing up it wasn't just me and my family,
but I was raised in a be respectful of adults,
and everyone in our circles was deemed family. If they
were close friends, they were an auntie or an uncle
because that was a respectful way to talk to them
and acknowledge them.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
A lot of that comes from that kin based traditional
New Zealand Maori heritage, right, I mean, that's the way
family is. Everyone is an auntie or an uncle or
a cousin, and let's face it, they probably are, and
when you see them, you're supposed to embrace them and
kiss them and do all of those traditional things. That's
how it always has been.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But the challenge for me as a young child was
most of those people I'd never seen before or I
see once a year, And so the idea of bringing
them into my personal space. Even as a five year old,
it felt wrong, like it didn't really confront h. I
didn't feel comfortable. I didn't. You're not my mom, you're
not my dad, You're not someone I trust. This is
(06:10):
a really tricky space. So for us, as we've raised
our children, it has always been an acknowledgement no one
is an auntie and uncle unless they're an auntie or
uncle for starters. But they've never been forced in any way,
shape or form to acknowledge them with a hugener kiss
if it's not what they want to do. So if
we move forward from our zero to five, we're looking
(06:31):
at six to maybe thirteen to our early teens.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, primary school, primary school age kids, So this is
where the consent. I mean, you'll know that with young kids,
we're not having conversations about consent and intimacy. Yeah, we're
simply teaching respect and body bound reason. If someone says no,
it means no, and that kind of thing. It's really
basic stuff. I don't think there's anything controversial or provocative
about this. Again, I don't understand why people get that
upset about it. In terms of primary school, the conversation
(06:56):
shifts a little bit, primarily because social networks expand, our
kids are they're going to know more people. But there's
also the possibility that's going to be conflict. But I
want to do this, my friend wants to do that,
and we've got this conflict here, and consent becomes more
about social relationships and activity based conversations and that kind
(07:18):
of thing, healthy friendships and how to just engage respectfully
with other people. I think at this point we can
start to teach our kids about verbal and nonverbal communication.
This is a really powerful way to help kids to
communicate consent. I like this, I don't like this. Body
language gives us that insight into how someone's feeling, and
if we can help kids to tune into what other
(07:40):
people are showing, that can be really profoundly useful. I
remember speaking with a colleague of mine some years ago
who said that when she was about fifteen or sixteen,
she was on a bus. She was the only person
on the bus, and a guy got on who was
probably a young adult, and saw her sitting there, just
a girl on her own on the bus, and literally
(08:02):
went and sat on the seat beside her, which is
such a such a power.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I was about to say that, big power play.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Big power play. But if we have the capacity to
read other people's body language, like she shrank, she moved
as close to the window as she could. I mean,
and he sort of what is it when a man.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Spread He clearly he clearly didn't care.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
What she totally totally. But the idea is if we
can teach people to read one another better and have
some empathy around that, not just the skill of reading
other people, but the empathy that accompanies that, then we
can help them to understand the nonverbal elements of consent
as well. Oh, this person's stiffening up, this person's moving away,
this person's not making eye contact, this person's looking worried.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
This person and voice is saying yes, but everything about
their body is screaming no.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Right, And I think that's really what we're looking at here.
How can we communicate boundaries effectively? Teaching kids to develop
their identity, to develop a voice, to be willing to
say no, to think critically about what they see online,
to think about who they're talking to, and to engage respectfully.
That that's for me, the primary school age sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So this is a really tricky space. This idea of
giving our children a voice. For a lot of parents,
we just want compliance, right, We want them to do
what we ask when we ask them to do it,
because that makes our life easy. And I know that
that was the kind of home I was raised in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So when our children reach school age and they started
having opinions about things, my parents really were taken back
(09:35):
by that. Are you going to stamp that as because
that's not how I was raised? And yes, it causes
some conflict and contention in your home as you try
to navigate the challenge of your children having a voice
and telling you they don't want to do something you
clearly know number one is good for them and number
two needs to be done in order for the family
to function whatever it is. But I think there is
(09:58):
so much power. Think about just that friend of yours
and being on the bus. What a difference it would
have made to her if she knew that she was
well within her rights to either ask him to move
or to stand up.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Stand up away, Yeah, go sit right next to the
bus driver, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And so for me, as a mum of girls, that's
what I'm trying to achieve. I'm trying to help my
girls recognize and know that their voice matters number one
and number two. If they have absolute clarity on who
they are and who they want to be, then they
will have confidence in their ability to speak that when
the time comes.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So that's a pretty good segue to move into the
adolescence and secondary school age group. Let's talk about teenagers.
I've spoken just too many girls. I've spoken to too
many girls who have told me that they've acquiesced that
they've gone long when a boy that they've been with
has put pressure on them to engage in any kind
of intimacy because they felt like they had to. They
(11:01):
felt like they couldn't say no. They felt like this
was how they proved that they loved him.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
The devastation in this though, is the girls walk away
feeling guilty.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeahs, the girls are the ones that walk away and
they feel like they're dirty or unworthy or that.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Or I said yes, so therefore I deserved what I
got right right. It's a devastating place to be.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So if we transition into these adolescent years, we start
to talk about romantic relationships. This is I think this
is the most important zone. But it works best if
we've built a foundation where kids already know that their
voice matters and that they're allowed to say no critical
things here around consent number one, you can say yes
(11:43):
and then change your mind. If you withdraw consent, then
there is no consent. Consent is gone. And these are
the things that we've got to talk about kids about.
We've got to talk to them about how if there's
any alcohol or other drugs involved and therefore or that
any kind of impairment, or a person doesn't have the capacity,
then they can't and sand if they don't have the maturity,
(12:03):
if they're not old enough, they can't consent. Navigating consent
is sometimes just so much more complicated than do I
have permission? In fact permission. The example that I use
here when I'm talking to parents about this stuff is
the kids now and then we'll come to me and say, hey, Dad,
can I have fifty dollars so that I can go
and watch a movie and get some grilled at burger
(12:26):
and some chips. And I don't want to give the
kids fifty bucks, like that's a really expensive night out,
but that's how much it costs for a burger and
chips and a movie at the local cinema. But eventually
I roll my eyes and say, sure, take the fifty bucks. Now.
Is that consent? Really? Like, it's a pretty low bar.
(12:46):
And so when I and we probably need to talk
about kids again about this becau's been a while. These
are not one and done conversations. But if the person
that you're with is not going to be excited about
what happened tomorrow, then I think that's not consent. I
like drawing two circles of end diagram, you know where
(13:07):
they're two overlapping circles, yep, And in one circle you've
got the words what I want, and in another circle you've
got the words what they want. And the bit where
they overlap is what we want, and that's consent. And
if you start to push into another zone, then that
ceases to be consent. I just think this is such
an important conversation, especially when teenagers are engaged in sending
(13:28):
images to one another or going to parties and there's
all those sorts of pressure. So I just I mean,
there's so much more we could talk about. This is
not a paid advertisement, but I want to refer people
to consent dot gov dot au. Like I said, I
am an ambassador for it, and the work that they're
doing is really good. It's really smart work. Myself. Chanel
(13:48):
Kontos is also an ambassador. Dan Prince Pay who speaks
about pornography in schools all around the country, he's also
an ambassador, and Chantel Otten is also an ambassador. So
it's a pretty power patch forsome who are really trying
to push this consent conversation and it matters consent dot
gov dot AU.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So what about families in my minority situations?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, Actually, there's a bunch of resources that they've got
there as well, and I think it's really great. There's
some stuff First Nations families, which is brilliant if English
is not your first language. There's some really good resources
for people who just need stuff super simple, and they've
done a really smart job of that. And there's also
some resources for lgbt Q plus populations as well. Interestingly,
(14:33):
consent is in some circumstances that's navigated brilliantly, and other
circumstances it's absolutely atrocious, and so there's really great resources
for all of those as well. Let's wrap this up
with some final tips. Kylie, have the conversations from the
start folks on ethics and empathy and rights and bodily autonomy.
I mean, that's the very crux of it. And if
(14:54):
we start those conversations at the very beginning, our kids
at least know and understand what we're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Give your kids a voice, Give them a voice. Yeah,
from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And I think if you've got daughters, given that we've
got six of them, teaching them that they do not
owe anything to anybody, especially once they get into adolescents
and start to have an interest in boyfriends, girlfriends, partners, whatever,
they need to know you just you don't owe them anything.
You don't have to say yes to anything. There's no obligation.
Just because they bought you dinner, or just because they
(15:23):
bought your milkshake, or just because they bought you a
two dollars slurpy from seven to eleven doesn't mean that
you owe them anything at all. You're welcome to say
no every single day until you're ready to start say yes.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
And their whole just because they're them, like they're not
waiting for Prince Charming to come and sweep them off
their feet. They are whole and worthy right now.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, as themselves And the last thing I'd say is
this education and conversations about consent are not going to
stop the sexual violence challenges that we have in Australia
all on its own. We do need more than that,
So we need to have these conversations around are the
areas like our a whole and other drugs and if
you're raising boys, it really I mean, girls are the
(16:06):
break boys are the accelerator, and we've got to teach
them that that's the way it's always been and it
shouldn't always be that way. That they're not to be
the accelerator. And if they are going to be the accelerator,
they're not allowed to. The whole idea is you don't
just put the pedal to the metal. It's not about
flooring it. It's about having a really, really healthy kind
of control and sticking to the speed limit metaphorically speaking,
(16:29):
letting them know as well that the pain of regret
as a perpetrator will probably be pretty substantial. Imagine what
it's going to be like when you've got daughters, how
you're going to feel, how protective you'll feel, and how
would you feel if your daughter was dating a guy
like you? Would you be excited because you know they're
going to be safe, or would you be terrified because
you know what you're like. So I think those kinds
(16:51):
of conversations matter. I'm not calling boys perpetrators, by the way,
I'm not calling girls victims. But I think that if
we can have these conversations, we're going to have fewer
perpetrators and for your vicoy and that's a good thing
all around. So that's a conversation, A bit of a
long one, bit of a heavy one. More details at
consent dot gov dot a you. The Happy Families podcast
is produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media All the
details that you need for more on this topic or
(17:12):
at consent dot gov dot au. And if you'd like
more information about making your family happier, visit us at
happy families dot com dot au.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com