May 6, 2025 • 10 mins
Some kids thrive anywhere. Others need more care to flourish. In this episode, Justin and Kylie Coulson explore the powerful metaphor of “dandelion and orchid” children—an idea shared by clinical psychologist Dr. Jamie Northam. They discuss how different temperaments impact mental health, why parenting must be tailored, and how to know when your child might need additional support.
KEY POINTS:
-
Dandelions are resilient children who thrive in most environments; orchids are more sensitive and require specific conditions to grow well.
-
Evidence-based parenting strategies should be adaptable—not one-size-fits-all.
-
Be cautious of advice from social media; always ask: Is there evidence? Are there clear steps? Does this suit my child?
-
The “Three D’s” of mental health concern: Distress, Dysfunction, and Deviation from developmental norms.
-
Good parenting meets a child where they are—not where we wish they were.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:
“Parenting isn’t one-size-fits-all—what works for one child may fail completely with another.”
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
-
Full interview with Dr. Jamie Northam (airing Saturday)
-
happyfamilies.com.au for evidence-based parenting resources
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS:
-
Reflect on your child’s temperament—are they a dandelion or an orchid?
-
Before following parenting advice, check if it's evidence-based, clearly explained, and appropriate for your child.
-
Watch for the “Three D’s”: distress, dysfunction, and deviation from expected development.
-
Adapt your parenting approach based on each child’s needs—not just what worked in the past.
-
If concerned, seek professional support early—mental health matters at every age.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
What are the signs that your child is struggling with
mental ill health? Mental illness is on the rise among
our children and young people in Australia. There is a
lot of work to do. Hello and welcome to the
Happy Families podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's
most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie.
In the last few days, I've had a fascinating conversation
(00:27):
with clinical psychologist and academic doctor Jamie Northam from the
University of Sydney. We were having a chat about mental
health challenges, especially among our young people, and she shared
a metaphor with me that I just I had to
bring into today's pod. So we're not supposed to be
talking about this until Saturday. We're going to play the
whole interview about kids and mental ill health on Saturday,
(00:48):
but check this out. This is what she had to
say about kids and their various struggles.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So the dandelion awkward metaphor is that you've got different
types of kids, and you can think of kids different
types of flowers. The dandelion flower or a child is
the sort of child who will grow anywhere they're really resilient,
they're robust, they need really minimal conditions to grow into
a healthy, functioning human being who's pretty happy. Then we
(01:16):
get these children sometimes who refer to as orchids, and
they're very sensitive to environment, and they need very particular
parenting input and very particular environments to grow. And when
they grow, my goodness, they are spectacular. And I like
to think about the parenting choices we make about discipline
and learning skills and all those things as really individual
(01:41):
to families and really individual the kids. What will work
well for one kid might not necessarily work well for
the other kid, even if both things are evidence based.
So what we need to do when considering which treatment
to go with or which skills to implement. If you're
thinking about advice that you receive on Instagram or two
top it's one, are there studies behind this that show
(02:03):
that it works and that it doesn't do harm? Two?
What I think is really important, are there clear guidelines
and how to actually do it? Because a lot of
the time instrumums will tell a nice thing and you go,
that sounds cool, but I don't actually know how to
do that then, so you want to see the actual
steps involved, so you don't screw it up to put
it really bluntly. And then lastly you're going to go
(02:25):
is this right for me? And is this the right
fit for my child?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I know this is a real big tangent, but this
actually reminds me of a poem that I may have
sent to you.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
This is a big tangent. Did not see that coming.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Here.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
We are talking about parenting and you're about to talk
about our dating life.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Roses and lilies.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Just you've heard flowers and you've thought my husband was
getting it so wrong and I still married him. Let's
go back to pairing in a sec. Here's the short version.
You sent me a poem about how they were lilies
in the garden and litl is on the wall and
blah blah blah, there's lilies everywhere, and why he is
supposed it with all these lilies everywhere? I should so
Desira rose right. That was the poem. That was the poem,
And for some reason I misread the poem and I
(03:07):
started to call you my lily. We were dating. It
was like a pet name. And you're like, oh my goodness,
I'm just a lily. And is this guy this guy's
not serious about me. We digress it. Fortunately, Fortunately I
figured it out, made you, my rose, married you. Where
we've been and now.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
We have a lily and an alero.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
That's right, Yeah, we've got lily and a rose in
our family. But let's go back to doctor Jamie Northan's metaphor.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I'm sorry, the mind wandering.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
There are some kids who are dandy lions and some
kids who are orkards. In other words, there's this this
temperament and personality variable that impacts how what we do
with one child can work so well and it doesn't
work so well with another child.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And the thing that stood out to me as I
was listening outside of the lilies and the roses right,
was the idea that parenting isn't a one size fits all.
We can nail it with one child utilizing a different
technique or even just a mindset when it comes to
(04:04):
how we interact with them and think we've got this
downpat and it's going to be amazing, And then the
next child comes along and it doesn't matter how many
times we go down that right, it just does not compute,
does not work, and in more cases than not, we
end up down a completely different road is not where
we want to be.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So the other thing that I really want to pick
up on from what she was saying is that when
it comes to like Instamum's TikTok, there's never been more
parenting advice available in the world, never, which makes my
job really challenging in some ways because every time I
turn around, somebody says, well, I saw this on TikTok,
or this instatum's doing this, or I read this blog,
and it's like, there are some really good ideas out there,
But as she said, is there evidence behind them?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Is there a really good.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Theory that drives them, or is this just something that
somebody put a pretty picture of some or a pretty
video of some kids playing with their parents and said, oh,
this is so nice. Like there's got to be evidence
behind what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And then are there clear steps for me that I
can follow? And I think that that's a really key
component to being able to move forward, because.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
That's why I developed Explore Explain in power right, because
I can sit down and talk about needs supportive parenting
all day, but if you don't understand what that looks
like in a conversation in a discipline setting, it's not
going to be helpful.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, especially if you're coming from the traditional consequence concept.
The idea that we'd explore with our children how they're
feeling and then work with them to provide a solution
goes against the grain. So it's so far beyond where
we've ever been before. Without those clear concise steps for
(05:44):
us to follow, we're going to stuff it up.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah. The other thing that I will say, and I
didn't get to say this to Jamie, but as I'm
thinking about it now, Danny Lyon's orchards. Sure, like we
know that there's temperament and personality differences with kids, but
when you've got a really solid piece of evidence that
underpins that's underpinned by really really great theory, it will
(06:09):
apply most of the time to most people in most situations.
And I think that that's something that we can always
rely on. That's why there's value in speaking to or
listening to the right people. After the break, since our
conversation was mostly about mental health, we're going to talk
about the challenges, the concerns you want to be looking
out for to know whether or not your child does
(06:30):
or does not need to go see somebody because of
some mental illness. Doctor Jamie Northam is from the University
of Sydney. She's a clinical psychologist and she works academically
doing research at UCID as well. We had a chat
(06:51):
that I just really enjoyed so much. We come from
quite different perspectives. She comes from a clinical psychology perspective.
I come from a positive psychology, self determine nation theory
well being perspective and it was a fascinating discussion. One
of the best parts of the interview, something that just
stood out so much to me was I asked her
what the signs are that things might not be going well?
(07:13):
Like if we take it right back to base, really
basic principles, how do you know that your child is
not thriving? And this is what she said, check this out.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So in psychology we always speak about the three d's
when we're thinking about needing to intervene with kids, and
those are distress, dysfunction, and debians. So distress, if some
behavior is worrying you or worrying your child, that's a
perfect time to get help, because that's one thing that's
(07:46):
really important. Dysfunction, that's the things that I like to
think about, is impacting learning or impacting a really happy life.
So if you can't make friends, if you can't form
those relationships, that's having a bit of dysfunction. So that's
probably worth looking at. And then devians is the last one,
which sounds a little bit scary when you say, like
like that, but what devians refers to is really, is
(08:09):
my child within the realms of what's considered normal at
this age, and are they sort of meeting those milestones
that would be expected of them. And if they're not, again,
that's probably another tick that you know that it's time
to seek out a little bit of extra support.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I'm really glad you clarified deviance. I was going down
a completely different track.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So I don't use the word dvans. I use the
word deviation because you can deviate from the mainstream without
becoming a dB. And some people deviate in positive ways
and some people in less positive ways. So yeah, distress, dysfunction,
and deviation or deviance are the things to look out for.
It if you're worried that your child is not doing well.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, so I look at this in terms of I
guess school refusal, for instance, we've got a really highly
distressed child.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, absolutely, who.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Then at school is dysfunctional in that they're not able
to learn because they're so highly strung in that space.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, the reality is that it is functional at home
as well, right, like the big tantrums and that sort
of thing. Yep.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And the relationships are challenged at every step because they're
not able to make new friends, keep friends, or even
have positive interactions with teachers and parents. And then as
a result, often it impacts their milestone.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah. Yeah, they deviate from what the developmentally appropriate milestones
would be.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So it feels like this is a really easy, achievable
checklist for parents to look at when they're assessing whether
or not this is something that we probably need to
seek extra help with.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I' found it really helpful. The whole conversation with doctor
Jamie Northam was really insightful, really useful, and I think
any parent who's mindful about either their parenting practice or
they're concerns about the child's mental health, you really want
to hear the whole thing. So we're going to play
the entire interview on Saturday Saturday morning. You've got it
there for your weekend listening. I reckon you're going to
(10:09):
love it. It's really simple to listen to. She communicates
so clearly and talks about really important things to help
your family. So please take a listen to the full
interview on Saturday with doctor Jamie Northam from the University
of Sydney, clinical psychologist and lecturer at that Sandstone University. Hey,
the Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
(10:30):
Bridge Media. We would love it if you'd leave us
a five star rating or review. You get a nice,
warm fuzzy because you've done something nice for us, and
you get to help other people as well. They find
the podcast because you've left that rating and review. If
you could take thirty seconds and do that, Can I
invite you to do that? That would be It would
just make such a difference. More information and more resources
about making your family happier are available at happy families
(10:51):
dot com. Do a
What are the signs that your child is struggling with
mental ill health? Mental illness is on the rise among
our children and young people in Australia. There is a
lot of work to do. Hello and welcome to the
Happy Families podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's
most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie.
In the last few days, I've had a fascinating conversation
(00:27):
with clinical psychologist and academic doctor Jamie Northam from the
University of Sydney. We were having a chat about mental
health challenges, especially among our young people, and she shared
a metaphor with me that I just I had to
bring into today's pod. So we're not supposed to be
talking about this until Saturday. We're going to play the
whole interview about kids and mental ill health on Saturday,
(00:48):
but check this out. This is what she had to
say about kids and their various struggles.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So the dandelion awkward metaphor is that you've got different
types of kids, and you can think of kids different
types of flowers. The dandelion flower or a child is
the sort of child who will grow anywhere they're really resilient,
they're robust, they need really minimal conditions to grow into
a healthy, functioning human being who's pretty happy. Then we
(01:16):
get these children sometimes who refer to as orchids, and
they're very sensitive to environment, and they need very particular
parenting input and very particular environments to grow. And when
they grow, my goodness, they are spectacular. And I like
to think about the parenting choices we make about discipline
and learning skills and all those things as really individual
(01:41):
to families and really individual the kids. What will work
well for one kid might not necessarily work well for
the other kid, even if both things are evidence based.
So what we need to do when considering which treatment
to go with or which skills to implement. If you're
thinking about advice that you receive on Instagram or two
top it's one, are there studies behind this that show
(02:03):
that it works and that it doesn't do harm? Two?
What I think is really important, are there clear guidelines
and how to actually do it? Because a lot of
the time instrumums will tell a nice thing and you go,
that sounds cool, but I don't actually know how to
do that then, so you want to see the actual
steps involved, so you don't screw it up to put
it really bluntly. And then lastly you're going to go
(02:25):
is this right for me? And is this the right
fit for my child?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I know this is a real big tangent, but this
actually reminds me of a poem that I may have
sent to you.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
This is a big tangent. Did not see that coming.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Here.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
We are talking about parenting and you're about to talk
about our dating life.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Roses and lilies.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Just you've heard flowers and you've thought my husband was
getting it so wrong and I still married him. Let's
go back to pairing in a sec. Here's the short version.
You sent me a poem about how they were lilies
in the garden and litl is on the wall and
blah blah blah, there's lilies everywhere, and why he is
supposed it with all these lilies everywhere? I should so
Desira rose right. That was the poem. That was the poem,
And for some reason I misread the poem and I
(03:07):
started to call you my lily. We were dating. It
was like a pet name. And you're like, oh my goodness,
I'm just a lily. And is this guy this guy's
not serious about me. We digress it. Fortunately, Fortunately I
figured it out, made you, my rose, married you. Where
we've been and now.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
We have a lily and an alero.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
That's right, Yeah, we've got lily and a rose in
our family. But let's go back to doctor Jamie Northan's metaphor.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I'm sorry, the mind wandering.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
There are some kids who are dandy lions and some
kids who are orkards. In other words, there's this this
temperament and personality variable that impacts how what we do
with one child can work so well and it doesn't
work so well with another child.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And the thing that stood out to me as I
was listening outside of the lilies and the roses right,
was the idea that parenting isn't a one size fits all.
We can nail it with one child utilizing a different
technique or even just a mindset when it comes to
(04:04):
how we interact with them and think we've got this
downpat and it's going to be amazing, And then the
next child comes along and it doesn't matter how many
times we go down that right, it just does not compute,
does not work, and in more cases than not, we
end up down a completely different road is not where
we want to be.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So the other thing that I really want to pick
up on from what she was saying is that when
it comes to like Instamum's TikTok, there's never been more
parenting advice available in the world, never, which makes my
job really challenging in some ways because every time I
turn around, somebody says, well, I saw this on TikTok,
or this instatum's doing this, or I read this blog,
and it's like, there are some really good ideas out there,
But as she said, is there evidence behind them?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Is there a really good.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Theory that drives them, or is this just something that
somebody put a pretty picture of some or a pretty
video of some kids playing with their parents and said, oh,
this is so nice. Like there's got to be evidence
behind what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And then are there clear steps for me that I
can follow? And I think that that's a really key
component to being able to move forward, because.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
That's why I developed Explore Explain in power right, because
I can sit down and talk about needs supportive parenting
all day, but if you don't understand what that looks
like in a conversation in a discipline setting, it's not
going to be helpful.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, especially if you're coming from the traditional consequence concept.
The idea that we'd explore with our children how they're
feeling and then work with them to provide a solution
goes against the grain. So it's so far beyond where
we've ever been before. Without those clear concise steps for
(05:44):
us to follow, we're going to stuff it up.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah. The other thing that I will say, and I
didn't get to say this to Jamie, but as I'm
thinking about it now, Danny Lyon's orchards. Sure, like we
know that there's temperament and personality differences with kids, but
when you've got a really solid piece of evidence that
underpins that's underpinned by really really great theory, it will
(06:09):
apply most of the time to most people in most situations.
And I think that that's something that we can always
rely on. That's why there's value in speaking to or
listening to the right people. After the break, since our
conversation was mostly about mental health, we're going to talk
about the challenges, the concerns you want to be looking
out for to know whether or not your child does
(06:30):
or does not need to go see somebody because of
some mental illness. Doctor Jamie Northam is from the University
of Sydney. She's a clinical psychologist and she works academically
doing research at UCID as well. We had a chat
(06:51):
that I just really enjoyed so much. We come from
quite different perspectives. She comes from a clinical psychology perspective.
I come from a positive psychology, self determine nation theory
well being perspective and it was a fascinating discussion. One
of the best parts of the interview, something that just
stood out so much to me was I asked her
what the signs are that things might not be going well?
(07:13):
Like if we take it right back to base, really
basic principles, how do you know that your child is
not thriving? And this is what she said, check this out.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So in psychology we always speak about the three d's
when we're thinking about needing to intervene with kids, and
those are distress, dysfunction, and debians. So distress, if some
behavior is worrying you or worrying your child, that's a
perfect time to get help, because that's one thing that's
(07:46):
really important. Dysfunction, that's the things that I like to
think about, is impacting learning or impacting a really happy life.
So if you can't make friends, if you can't form
those relationships, that's having a bit of dysfunction. So that's
probably worth looking at. And then devians is the last one,
which sounds a little bit scary when you say, like
like that, but what devians refers to is really, is
(08:09):
my child within the realms of what's considered normal at
this age, and are they sort of meeting those milestones
that would be expected of them. And if they're not, again,
that's probably another tick that you know that it's time
to seek out a little bit of extra support.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I'm really glad you clarified deviance. I was going down
a completely different track.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So I don't use the word dvans. I use the
word deviation because you can deviate from the mainstream without
becoming a dB. And some people deviate in positive ways
and some people in less positive ways. So yeah, distress, dysfunction,
and deviation or deviance are the things to look out for.
It if you're worried that your child is not doing well.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, so I look at this in terms of I
guess school refusal, for instance, we've got a really highly
distressed child.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, absolutely, who.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Then at school is dysfunctional in that they're not able
to learn because they're so highly strung in that space.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, the reality is that it is functional at home
as well, right, like the big tantrums and that sort
of thing. Yep.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And the relationships are challenged at every step because they're
not able to make new friends, keep friends, or even
have positive interactions with teachers and parents. And then as
a result, often it impacts their milestone.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah. Yeah, they deviate from what the developmentally appropriate milestones
would be.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So it feels like this is a really easy, achievable
checklist for parents to look at when they're assessing whether
or not this is something that we probably need to
seek extra help with.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I' found it really helpful. The whole conversation with doctor
Jamie Northam was really insightful, really useful, and I think
any parent who's mindful about either their parenting practice or
they're concerns about the child's mental health, you really want
to hear the whole thing. So we're going to play
the entire interview on Saturday Saturday morning. You've got it
there for your weekend listening. I reckon you're going to
(10:09):
love it. It's really simple to listen to. She communicates
so clearly and talks about really important things to help
your family. So please take a listen to the full
interview on Saturday with doctor Jamie Northam from the University
of Sydney, clinical psychologist and lecturer at that Sandstone University. Hey,
the Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
(10:30):
Bridge Media. We would love it if you'd leave us
a five star rating or review. You get a nice,
warm fuzzy because you've done something nice for us, and
you get to help other people as well. They find
the podcast because you've left that rating and review. If
you could take thirty seconds and do that, Can I
invite you to do that? That would be It would
just make such a difference. More information and more resources
about making your family happier are available at happy families
(10:51):
dot com. Do a
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