May 14, 2025 • 19 mins
We take a deep dive into the increasingly visible “furry” phenomenon among young people. What is it? Why is it happening? And most importantly, how should parents respond? From identity development to mental health concerns, online risks, and compassionate parenting strategies, this episode tackles the hard questions with clarity and care.
KEY POINTS:
- Furries are individuals who adopt animal identities ("fursonas"), often through costumes, behaviours, or online personas.
- The trend is increasingly visible in schools and online, often linked with broader identity and mental health issues.
- Studies show high rates of anxiety, depression, and suicidal ideation among those identifying as furries.
- The furry community may offer temporary escape and affirmation, but it often delays deeper emotional work.
- Online spaces often amplify and affirm furriness, making digital monitoring essential.
- Role-play is a central component, particularly attractive to neurodiverse young people seeking to manage anxiety.
- Strong family relationships, boundaries, and compassionate but clear guidance are essential.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:
"If I have a child who wants to bark at me, I want to tell them how much I miss hearing their voice." – Kylie Coulson
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
- University of Waikato Study (2018) – A key study exploring furry identity and mental health (link provided in episode show notes).
- HappyFamilies.com.au – Parenting resources and support.
- FurScience.net—Referenced with caution due to affirmation bias.
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS:
- Set clear, compassionate boundaries – Affirm your child's humanity while being loving and firm.
- Monitor digital activity – Block furry content and supervise online platforms where furry communities gather.
- Redirect creativity – Encourage healthy outlets like art, drama, and team sports.
- Strengthen real-world relationships – Help children build social connections offline.
- Seek professional support – Engage a qualified psychologist who explores root causes, not just symptoms.
- Respond with compassion, not punishment – Let your child know they are deeply loved and seen, even when their behaviour is difficult.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
The concept of furries.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's been around for a while now, you've likely heard
of furries. Today on the podcast, we look at what
this is all about and whether we should be worried.
Welcome to a Happy Families podcast today, Real parenting solutions
for some really big parenting problems. This is Australia's most
downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson and
(00:28):
Hun Furry fandom gaining visibility and youth culture.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
There's more and more noise about it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We need to understand what it means, especially from mental
health perspective. In the past few days, this has been
blowing up in the media. I was on the Today
Show yesterday talking about it. This was the reaction of
Lucy Zelich on two GB.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So withfurry is somebody that identifies as an animal, right
as a dog, a cat, you name it, right, And
this is something that was brought to my attention. Actually,
I was phoned by parent this afternoon to tell me
that this is going on in their particular area. And
I was also made aware of it the other day
that this is occurring at a Catholic school in the
(01:10):
Hills district where they do have a furry. The parent
that spoke to me today said that at their school
that they've been made aware of this it is a dog,
and that they have been told the students have been
instructed that when this child barks like a dog, that
they are just they are to act as though this
is completely normal. It is a disgrace and it's an
(01:31):
absolute and utter embarrassment that we as a Western society
have allowed things like this to happen, that we are
encouraging this behavior. At what point are we going to
realize that we've started to make grave mistakes in the
way that we are raising our next generation. You've got
parenting websites that are saying adopt the art of parenting
(01:51):
without saying no, alternative ways of saying no to a child.
Don't give your child.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Trauma and say no to them.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How about you give the kid a smack and teach
them some respect and to actually grow up as a responsible,
functioning adult that's daring to contribute to society and not
put on a damn collar and act like a dog
in a classroom.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
There's some fighting words there.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
There's a lot going on.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So the first thing we need to emphasize is that
smacking is not going to solve this problem. Lucy might
have some big opinions around this, and I want to
support several of them, but smacking your children is not
going to be helpful. And the other thing that I
quickly want to jump in with, even though I know
that you're bursing to jump in, is Garble Marte and
his everything that happens in our life as a result
(02:34):
of childhood trauma. I don't think that that's helpful in
this conversation either. Outside of that, though, go for it,
missus Happy Families. As a non psyche person, what are
your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I think Lucy's spot on when she says that as
a society, we're doing our children a grave injustice when
we let this become normal. Our children are losing their
identity just about every facet. There is no clear cut anymore,
There is no given, there is no just I can't
(03:11):
imagine trying to navigate this without the maturity and life
experience as a five year old, as a seven year old,
as a ten year old, as a fourteen year old,
and the children in the room are wanting us to
be the adults.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So a couple of things that are important here we're
going to talk about identity development shortly. This is very
much an identity issue, but it's an identity issue because
of this thing that they call the affirmation model. So
in psychology across much of the Western world right now,
especially in Australia, when somebody identifies as anything at all,
the psychological focus is on affirmation rather than what psychology
(03:50):
once did, which was to ask questions and help a
person to do the inner work to figure out who
they are, what they value, on what's really going on.
I have all the compassion in the world for any
family who is going through this, For parents who are
going through this, this is going to be a really
big challenge. For children who are going through it, it's
even bigger. But I'm also a little bit frustrated because
I don't believe that it's necessary that families go through this.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And that's what I want.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
To talk about as we discuss what it is to
be a furry and how this works.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
So how popular is this? I mean, we're seeing this
more and more. I'm seeing it even when we're out
on the streets.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
The visibility is blowing up, right, it really is.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
But what is the data actually telling us?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So we don't have very much data.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Understandably, it's really hard to collect data in this particular arena.
The average age apparently is about twenty eight. Okay, so
while there are lots of kids who are starting to say, yeah, identify,
identify as a wall for a dog or a pussy
cat or whatever it is, the average age of a
quote unquote furry is twenty eight. So we are dealing
with mentally unstable adults primarily, although there's a trickle down
(04:53):
and it's primarily pushed by social media. What else do
we know about this? We know that there is a
higher proportion of young people who have gender identity issues
that also cross into furry territory. Okay, there's a website
that's out there. It's called First Science. Heaps of info there.
(05:14):
I don't know how credible this website is, primarily because
the focus is on affirmation and on reducing stigma. So
to me, that doesn't feel like it's going to be
balanced and neutral information to support our children's interests and
ensure they're well being. Fundamentally, though, I'm just concerned about
what's going on in the heads of kids and adults
(05:35):
who are identifying this way.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
So what you're suggesting is that what we're dealing with
here is really a mental health issue.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I think it is.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, there will be a lot of people who don't
like me for saying this, but fundamentally this is let's
have look at the stats. There was a twenty eighteen
study done. It's really hard again, like I said, to
get good, credible, somewhat neutral information around this, but there
was a University of like Caado study twenty eighteen. There
were something like twelve hundred and forty nine twelve hundred
and fifty furries from fifty seven countries, and what they
(06:04):
found was this, and this to me is alarming. Thirty
eight and a half percent of furries have reported an
attempt on their own lives. Twenty three and a half
have made multiple attempts on this nearly half, we're talking
about forty six forty seven percent scored in the clinical
range for anxiety, forty one percent with depression. So these
are obviously mental health challenges at rates that vastly exceed.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
The normal general population.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
In terms of what we see on average with our
typical population, there are definitely mental health challenges going on here.
I think that this comes down a little bit of parenting,
well not a little bit, probably quite a lot of
parenting as well, But fundamentally mental health, identity issues and
parenting I think are at the core of it.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So I guess a question to explore would be, is
the community, the furry community, actually attracting those who are
already struggling or is the community actually contributing to the issue.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And I would say yes to both. I would say
it's both column A and column B. When you've got
somebody who's struggling with all of these mental health challenges,
they're not doing the inner work. They're not really working
through the process that's required to understand who they are
and why they are struggling with either mental health issues
or trauma. I mean, let's pull on the Garble Marte
thing for just a second and say that there has
(07:21):
been some childhood trauma for some of these kids. They
adopt these animal alter egos. They're called personas, like as
opposed to a persona. It's a first sona very clever
play on words. Influences their identity. They create these alternative identities,
so they think that they really do need to go
to the toilet in kitty litter. They really do believe
that they can respond to people's questions with purring or
(07:44):
growling or barking, and they get all this affirmation, which
just reinforces the identity that they've got. And it's happening
quite often at this crucial time of identity development, during adolescence,
where they're supposed to be developing a healthy self concept,
and so you get this double edge sword, right because
when they step into furry land and they get all
this affirmation because so many people are afraid that the
(08:07):
kids are going to be hurt if we don't affirm them,
they get this temporary escape and it feels really good,
and then they also avoid any real world challenges. So
avoidance reinforces the anxiety and makes things worse. Fundamentally, this
identity issue and the mental health challenges that are associated
with it, to me again seem to.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Be at the core of it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So after the break, we're going to talk about whether
or not it's a safety issue, and what we can
do is parents, if we're worried about our kids heading
in this direction. Okay, really complicated topic today, talking about
whether or not it's okay to affirm your children in
(08:50):
their furriness.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
If that's where they've decided to go.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
They want to wear a tail, they want to wear
a mask, they want to purr, they want to use
kitty litter or that kind of thing, Kylie.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Something that we.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Need to sort of wave the flo around here is
the risk of harm to kids who and young adults
who ascribe to a furry identity. So when I was
doing the data search around this, research shows that predators
specifically seem to know who's vulnerable, and they particularly go
after vulnerable young furries. They know that there's going to
(09:20):
be some mental health challenges, that they're going to be
a little bit weaker, a little bit more likely to
accept somebody who's grooming them and accepting them and affirming
them and making them feel good about themselves. So there
are some concerning data. Again I'm questioning how good the
data is, but what data is there certainly indicates that
they're going to have some challenges there. We also know
they're much more likely to expose to explicit content online.
(09:44):
They're seeking out a whole lot of stuff, and like
I said, a lot of this is tied up with
gender identity stuff as well, So they're much more likely
to be exposed to pornography and very disturbing content around that.
And unfortunately, in a study that I found in the
Archives of Sexual Behavior, a higher percentage of sexual motivation
among adult furies. So unfortunately, there seems to be a
(10:07):
whole lot of sexual misconduct that hobs around these gender identity,
sexual identity mental health challenge situations. When it comes to
young people who identify as something other than human.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I find this really curious because when I think about
anxieties and the experience is that we have when we're
feeling anxiety, the last thing we want to be is
the main focus in the room.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Right, and so when you dress up like this, I'll
make those noises that actually.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
It amplifies it. Right, all eyes are on you for
all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
What's really going on here is roleplay, so I don't
have to be me. Therefore, I'm not being judged for
who I am. It's my alter ego. It's my first
sona that's being judged. I've spoken to a lot of
people who work, maybe in an education space, dealing with
neurodevelopmentally challenged kids, autistic kids specifically, and they'll often say
that drama is one of the best places for these
kids to be because they get to stop being the
(11:09):
autistic kid in the class and they get to be
the character in the play. And I've spoken with a
couple of autistic people who have told me that one
of their favorite subjects is drama because they get to
let go of all the anxiety associated with me being
me and they get to put on that alter ego.
So I think that goes some way to explaining what's
going on here. Ultimately, though, when it comes to our children,
(11:29):
their safety, the mental health, their identity development. What I
want to share is six very clear parenting solutions that
can help in this context. So I'll run through them.
If I say anything that prompts something for you, just
hit me up with it, and let's see if we
can be effective in helping parents who are worried about
these things. The first thing is that this is going
(11:50):
to sound really harsh, but I think we need to
set absolute boundaries. Really, this is a red line moment.
We set this boundary and we say, in our family,
none of them animals. We are all humans. So we're
not going to have personas, we're not going to have
first suits, we're not going to have conversations about being
a furry. To me, this is a non negotiable now
that flies in the face of what the Australians Psychological
(12:11):
Society and many other psychological societies around the.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
World would tell you to do.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They would tell you to be affirming because by not
affirming you could place your child in grave danger. But
if we can do it lovingly, I'm not talking about
being punitive and aggressive and saying that's it we're not doing,
but rather saying, kid, oh, I know this is really
hard for you, but we are going to call you
by your name and we are going to support you
to be a healthy, functioning human because that's.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
What you are.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
That's going to be far more effective in the long term.
We've just got to do it compassionately.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I think back to our tricky question a couple of
weeks ago with a parent who was concerned about the
sexy fun girl photos that her daughter was posting. Great
in relation to possible injury to future employments. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I'm sitting here as a parent thinking how does
(12:58):
this impact my child when they finally come out of
this phase, they'll be unemployable and decide that maybe I'm
not a furry anymore. Maybe I'm not a dog. Maybe
I'm actually a person who's got feelings and thoughts and
you know, hopes and dreams and aspirations.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The second thing that I want to emphasize is the
importance of digital monitoring. So we've talked about online safety issues.
That plays a really big role there, but the online
community will often affirm and amplify the challenges that your
child is struggling with. So if you've got a child
who's indicating that they have a preference for stepping into
furry land and they want to adopt a persona, they're
(13:37):
going to get so much support from online communities. Whether
it's on discord or whether it's on YouTube or whatever
platform they're using, they will get so much support there. Therefore,
as parents, we need to be involved in blocking furry content.
I think we want to block furry forums have I'm
not big on parental controls, but sometimes our children are
(13:58):
vulnerable and they need to be protected in including from themselves.
So I would say that that would be my second thing.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
The online world.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
The online community is an amplifier and a magnifier of this,
and it is not in our children's best interest to
be playing there.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
I think back to my childhood. I don't have a
single incident where one of my friends thought they were
a cat or adult.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Didn't exist in the nineties or nineties any of that.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And I have to believe that social media plays a
huge part.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, and unquestionably does. And it plays a huge part
in all the gender identity stuff and everything that's associated
with this. So for children to develop an identity and
do so in a healthy way, minimizing their access to
screens is going to make a really big difference. Third,
redirect their interests. I want to see parents channeling our children,
their children's creativity and interest towards healthy outlets like traditional
(14:49):
art and sport and conventional social activities. Get off the internet,
step away from anime, and get under the real world,
face to face with people who also do not think
that they are animal. Right, go and become part of
a team somewhere doing something, and it'll make a difference.
My fourth one got to build real world connections.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I think this is this is imperative right.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Relationship is the heart of well being, and typically if
you've got a child who's struggling with anxiety, struggling with depression,
my bed is that they are involved in social circles,
whether relational needs are not being supported. Therefore they are
going online. They're getting all the affirmation and support from
these online communities and that's where they want to be,
and they start to You become the average of the
five people you spend the most time with. Right, So,
(15:33):
we want our children to spend time in healthy, face
to face, analogue social opportunities rather than online communities.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And for our anxious children, we need to recognize they
are going to need our support in that process, like
hold my hand kind of support.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Not saying this is going to be easy.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
It's not going to be as easy as saying we've
organized playdate, you go and play. These kids are going
to need your health integrating into their social circles more
times than not.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Two more points professional support, like if your child is
already involved in this, if your child is heading down
this path, you want to seek professional guidance immediately. But
you don't want to step into an affirmation situation. So
if you've got a psychologist who's saying, well, I'm just
going to affirm them in their furryness, find another psychologist.
This is not the person for you. You want a
psychologist who is going to say, we need to ask
(16:25):
some deep and probing questions here, and we need to
work on the gender issues, the identity issues, their screen usage,
their anxiety, their depression, their physical health, the sleep that
they're getting, the people and their relationship building skills. Those
are the things that are going to help your child
to thrive, not an affirmation of furry status. And the
last one is as parents, we've got and I said
(16:47):
this at the outset, I want to reemphasize it now
compassionate framing. Our job as parents is to focus on
protecting our kids, not punishing our kids. So our line,
our conversation points should be something like this. I love you.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I love you no matter what. I love you no
matter how you identify, no matter what you choose.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
But I also love you too much to let you
risk your mental health by continuing down a pathway where
you start to think that you are not a human.
Because you are. You are a loved and needed and
valued and worthy human and part of our family. And
we are going to affirm that because that's who you are.
You're our son, you're our daughter. You're the one that
we will weep with as you work through these hard things.
(17:28):
That is going to be really, really hard, And I
know there will be some people who will say that
it could be dangerous for their kids. I'm so sorry,
but it's already dangerous. If your child is playing in
Furreyville right now and has adopted a Ferstsna, their anxiety
and their depression levels are almost certainly through the roof,
and the risk of them trying to take their lives
is already vastly higher than it would be if they
(17:49):
were developing like a typical young person. So I just
don't buy the line that you're endangering their life by
treating them like a person rather than a furry.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You need to wrap this up.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Final words, final action steps, final way to proceed. If
you're worried about this Number one, I just want to
make it really clear. This is not harmless fandom. Kids
who are playing in this area are usually dealing with
a whole lot of other issues, and it can be dangerous.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The tragedy of this.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I really hate this because when a little kid wants
to dress up like Tigger or where a put a
tail on, a run around the house like we probably
did when we were kids once upon a time, that
was harmless fun, and now kids can't do that because
parents are paranoid because what if this turns into something
more than what it already is.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's just so sad.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
As parents, our job is protection. If we don't guide
our children's development, the online communities will, and.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
They do it so well.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
They groom brilliantly. And lastly, truly compassionate parenting means preventing harm,
not responding to harm, but preventing harm by drawing that
line in the sand. Any last words, if I have a.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Child who wants to at me, I want to tell
them how much I miss hearing their voice. And I
want to understand and know what it is that they're
feeling and how they feel about the world around them.
While ever they're barking at me, I can't. I can't
even begin to comprehend or understand them.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Okay, Kylie, let's wrap this up. We will link to
the University of Bycato study. It's actually quite a balanced
study and maybe even a little bit too pro for
my liking based on my bias. Nevertheless, we'll link to
that in the show notes. The Happy Families podcast is
produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
If you'd like more information and more resources to
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Make your family happier, you'll find it at happy families
dot com, dot a
The concept of furries.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's been around for a while now, you've likely heard
of furries. Today on the podcast, we look at what
this is all about and whether we should be worried.
Welcome to a Happy Families podcast today, Real parenting solutions
for some really big parenting problems. This is Australia's most
downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson and
(00:28):
Hun Furry fandom gaining visibility and youth culture.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
There's more and more noise about it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We need to understand what it means, especially from mental
health perspective. In the past few days, this has been
blowing up in the media. I was on the Today
Show yesterday talking about it. This was the reaction of
Lucy Zelich on two GB.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So withfurry is somebody that identifies as an animal, right
as a dog, a cat, you name it, right, And
this is something that was brought to my attention. Actually,
I was phoned by parent this afternoon to tell me
that this is going on in their particular area. And
I was also made aware of it the other day
that this is occurring at a Catholic school in the
(01:10):
Hills district where they do have a furry. The parent
that spoke to me today said that at their school
that they've been made aware of this it is a dog,
and that they have been told the students have been
instructed that when this child barks like a dog, that
they are just they are to act as though this
is completely normal. It is a disgrace and it's an
(01:31):
absolute and utter embarrassment that we as a Western society
have allowed things like this to happen, that we are
encouraging this behavior. At what point are we going to
realize that we've started to make grave mistakes in the
way that we are raising our next generation. You've got
parenting websites that are saying adopt the art of parenting
(01:51):
without saying no, alternative ways of saying no to a child.
Don't give your child.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Trauma and say no to them.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
How about you give the kid a smack and teach
them some respect and to actually grow up as a responsible,
functioning adult that's daring to contribute to society and not
put on a damn collar and act like a dog
in a classroom.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
There's some fighting words there.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
There's a lot going on.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So the first thing we need to emphasize is that
smacking is not going to solve this problem. Lucy might
have some big opinions around this, and I want to
support several of them, but smacking your children is not
going to be helpful. And the other thing that I
quickly want to jump in with, even though I know
that you're bursing to jump in, is Garble Marte and
his everything that happens in our life as a result
(02:34):
of childhood trauma. I don't think that that's helpful in
this conversation either. Outside of that, though, go for it,
missus Happy Families. As a non psyche person, what are
your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I think Lucy's spot on when she says that as
a society, we're doing our children a grave injustice when
we let this become normal. Our children are losing their
identity just about every facet. There is no clear cut anymore,
There is no given, there is no just I can't
(03:11):
imagine trying to navigate this without the maturity and life
experience as a five year old, as a seven year old,
as a ten year old, as a fourteen year old,
and the children in the room are wanting us to
be the adults.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So a couple of things that are important here we're
going to talk about identity development shortly. This is very
much an identity issue, but it's an identity issue because
of this thing that they call the affirmation model. So
in psychology across much of the Western world right now,
especially in Australia, when somebody identifies as anything at all,
the psychological focus is on affirmation rather than what psychology
(03:50):
once did, which was to ask questions and help a
person to do the inner work to figure out who
they are, what they value, on what's really going on.
I have all the compassion in the world for any
family who is going through this, For parents who are
going through this, this is going to be a really
big challenge. For children who are going through it, it's
even bigger. But I'm also a little bit frustrated because
I don't believe that it's necessary that families go through this.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And that's what I want.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
To talk about as we discuss what it is to
be a furry and how this works.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
So how popular is this? I mean, we're seeing this
more and more. I'm seeing it even when we're out
on the streets.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
The visibility is blowing up, right, it really is.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
But what is the data actually telling us?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So we don't have very much data.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Understandably, it's really hard to collect data in this particular arena.
The average age apparently is about twenty eight. Okay, so
while there are lots of kids who are starting to say, yeah, identify,
identify as a wall for a dog or a pussy
cat or whatever it is, the average age of a
quote unquote furry is twenty eight. So we are dealing
with mentally unstable adults primarily, although there's a trickle down
(04:53):
and it's primarily pushed by social media. What else do
we know about this? We know that there is a
higher proportion of young people who have gender identity issues
that also cross into furry territory. Okay, there's a website
that's out there. It's called First Science. Heaps of info there.
(05:14):
I don't know how credible this website is, primarily because
the focus is on affirmation and on reducing stigma. So
to me, that doesn't feel like it's going to be
balanced and neutral information to support our children's interests and
ensure they're well being. Fundamentally, though, I'm just concerned about
what's going on in the heads of kids and adults
(05:35):
who are identifying this way.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
So what you're suggesting is that what we're dealing with
here is really a mental health issue.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I think it is.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, there will be a lot of people who don't
like me for saying this, but fundamentally this is let's
have look at the stats. There was a twenty eighteen
study done. It's really hard again, like I said, to
get good, credible, somewhat neutral information around this, but there
was a University of like Caado study twenty eighteen. There
were something like twelve hundred and forty nine twelve hundred
and fifty furries from fifty seven countries, and what they
(06:04):
found was this, and this to me is alarming. Thirty
eight and a half percent of furries have reported an
attempt on their own lives. Twenty three and a half
have made multiple attempts on this nearly half, we're talking
about forty six forty seven percent scored in the clinical
range for anxiety, forty one percent with depression. So these
are obviously mental health challenges at rates that vastly exceed.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
The normal general population.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
In terms of what we see on average with our
typical population, there are definitely mental health challenges going on here.
I think that this comes down a little bit of parenting,
well not a little bit, probably quite a lot of
parenting as well, But fundamentally mental health, identity issues and
parenting I think are at the core of it.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So I guess a question to explore would be, is
the community, the furry community, actually attracting those who are
already struggling or is the community actually contributing to the issue.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And I would say yes to both. I would say
it's both column A and column B. When you've got
somebody who's struggling with all of these mental health challenges,
they're not doing the inner work. They're not really working
through the process that's required to understand who they are
and why they are struggling with either mental health issues
or trauma. I mean, let's pull on the Garble Marte
thing for just a second and say that there has
(07:21):
been some childhood trauma for some of these kids. They
adopt these animal alter egos. They're called personas, like as
opposed to a persona. It's a first sona very clever
play on words. Influences their identity. They create these alternative identities,
so they think that they really do need to go
to the toilet in kitty litter. They really do believe
that they can respond to people's questions with purring or
(07:44):
growling or barking, and they get all this affirmation, which
just reinforces the identity that they've got. And it's happening
quite often at this crucial time of identity development, during adolescence,
where they're supposed to be developing a healthy self concept,
and so you get this double edge sword, right because
when they step into furry land and they get all
this affirmation because so many people are afraid that the
(08:07):
kids are going to be hurt if we don't affirm them,
they get this temporary escape and it feels really good,
and then they also avoid any real world challenges. So
avoidance reinforces the anxiety and makes things worse. Fundamentally, this
identity issue and the mental health challenges that are associated
with it, to me again seem to.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Be at the core of it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So after the break, we're going to talk about whether
or not it's a safety issue, and what we can
do is parents, if we're worried about our kids heading
in this direction. Okay, really complicated topic today, talking about
whether or not it's okay to affirm your children in
(08:50):
their furriness.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
If that's where they've decided to go.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
They want to wear a tail, they want to wear
a mask, they want to purr, they want to use
kitty litter or that kind of thing, Kylie.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Something that we.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Need to sort of wave the flo around here is
the risk of harm to kids who and young adults
who ascribe to a furry identity. So when I was
doing the data search around this, research shows that predators
specifically seem to know who's vulnerable, and they particularly go
after vulnerable young furries. They know that there's going to
(09:20):
be some mental health challenges, that they're going to be
a little bit weaker, a little bit more likely to
accept somebody who's grooming them and accepting them and affirming
them and making them feel good about themselves. So there
are some concerning data. Again I'm questioning how good the
data is, but what data is there certainly indicates that
they're going to have some challenges there. We also know
they're much more likely to expose to explicit content online.
(09:44):
They're seeking out a whole lot of stuff, and like
I said, a lot of this is tied up with
gender identity stuff as well, So they're much more likely
to be exposed to pornography and very disturbing content around that.
And unfortunately, in a study that I found in the
Archives of Sexual Behavior, a higher percentage of sexual motivation
among adult furies. So unfortunately, there seems to be a
(10:07):
whole lot of sexual misconduct that hobs around these gender identity,
sexual identity mental health challenge situations. When it comes to
young people who identify as something other than human.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I find this really curious because when I think about
anxieties and the experience is that we have when we're
feeling anxiety, the last thing we want to be is
the main focus in the room.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Right, and so when you dress up like this, I'll
make those noises that actually.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
It amplifies it. Right, all eyes are on you for
all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
What's really going on here is roleplay, so I don't
have to be me. Therefore, I'm not being judged for
who I am. It's my alter ego. It's my first
sona that's being judged. I've spoken to a lot of
people who work, maybe in an education space, dealing with
neurodevelopmentally challenged kids, autistic kids specifically, and they'll often say
that drama is one of the best places for these
kids to be because they get to stop being the
(11:09):
autistic kid in the class and they get to be
the character in the play. And I've spoken with a
couple of autistic people who have told me that one
of their favorite subjects is drama because they get to
let go of all the anxiety associated with me being
me and they get to put on that alter ego.
So I think that goes some way to explaining what's
going on here. Ultimately, though, when it comes to our children,
(11:29):
their safety, the mental health, their identity development. What I
want to share is six very clear parenting solutions that
can help in this context. So I'll run through them.
If I say anything that prompts something for you, just
hit me up with it, and let's see if we
can be effective in helping parents who are worried about
these things. The first thing is that this is going
(11:50):
to sound really harsh, but I think we need to
set absolute boundaries. Really, this is a red line moment.
We set this boundary and we say, in our family,
none of them animals. We are all humans. So we're
not going to have personas, we're not going to have
first suits, we're not going to have conversations about being
a furry. To me, this is a non negotiable now
that flies in the face of what the Australians Psychological
(12:11):
Society and many other psychological societies around the.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
World would tell you to do.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They would tell you to be affirming because by not
affirming you could place your child in grave danger. But
if we can do it lovingly, I'm not talking about
being punitive and aggressive and saying that's it we're not doing,
but rather saying, kid, oh, I know this is really
hard for you, but we are going to call you
by your name and we are going to support you
to be a healthy, functioning human because that's.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
What you are.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
That's going to be far more effective in the long term.
We've just got to do it compassionately.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I think back to our tricky question a couple of
weeks ago with a parent who was concerned about the
sexy fun girl photos that her daughter was posting. Great
in relation to possible injury to future employments. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I'm sitting here as a parent thinking how does
(12:58):
this impact my child when they finally come out of
this phase, they'll be unemployable and decide that maybe I'm
not a furry anymore. Maybe I'm not a dog. Maybe
I'm actually a person who's got feelings and thoughts and
you know, hopes and dreams and aspirations.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The second thing that I want to emphasize is the
importance of digital monitoring. So we've talked about online safety issues.
That plays a really big role there, but the online
community will often affirm and amplify the challenges that your
child is struggling with. So if you've got a child
who's indicating that they have a preference for stepping into
furry land and they want to adopt a persona, they're
(13:37):
going to get so much support from online communities. Whether
it's on discord or whether it's on YouTube or whatever
platform they're using, they will get so much support there. Therefore,
as parents, we need to be involved in blocking furry content.
I think we want to block furry forums have I'm
not big on parental controls, but sometimes our children are
(13:58):
vulnerable and they need to be protected in including from themselves.
So I would say that that would be my second thing.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
The online world.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
The online community is an amplifier and a magnifier of this,
and it is not in our children's best interest to
be playing there.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
I think back to my childhood. I don't have a
single incident where one of my friends thought they were
a cat or adult.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Didn't exist in the nineties or nineties any of that.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And I have to believe that social media plays a
huge part.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, and unquestionably does. And it plays a huge part
in all the gender identity stuff and everything that's associated
with this. So for children to develop an identity and
do so in a healthy way, minimizing their access to
screens is going to make a really big difference. Third,
redirect their interests. I want to see parents channeling our children,
their children's creativity and interest towards healthy outlets like traditional
(14:49):
art and sport and conventional social activities. Get off the internet,
step away from anime, and get under the real world,
face to face with people who also do not think
that they are animal. Right, go and become part of
a team somewhere doing something, and it'll make a difference.
My fourth one got to build real world connections.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I think this is this is imperative right.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Relationship is the heart of well being, and typically if
you've got a child who's struggling with anxiety, struggling with depression,
my bed is that they are involved in social circles,
whether relational needs are not being supported. Therefore they are
going online. They're getting all the affirmation and support from
these online communities and that's where they want to be,
and they start to You become the average of the
five people you spend the most time with. Right, So,
(15:33):
we want our children to spend time in healthy, face
to face, analogue social opportunities rather than online communities.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And for our anxious children, we need to recognize they
are going to need our support in that process, like
hold my hand kind of support.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Not saying this is going to be easy.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
It's not going to be as easy as saying we've
organized playdate, you go and play. These kids are going
to need your health integrating into their social circles more
times than not.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Two more points professional support, like if your child is
already involved in this, if your child is heading down
this path, you want to seek professional guidance immediately. But
you don't want to step into an affirmation situation. So
if you've got a psychologist who's saying, well, I'm just
going to affirm them in their furryness, find another psychologist.
This is not the person for you. You want a
psychologist who is going to say, we need to ask
(16:25):
some deep and probing questions here, and we need to
work on the gender issues, the identity issues, their screen usage,
their anxiety, their depression, their physical health, the sleep that
they're getting, the people and their relationship building skills. Those
are the things that are going to help your child
to thrive, not an affirmation of furry status. And the
last one is as parents, we've got and I said
(16:47):
this at the outset, I want to reemphasize it now
compassionate framing. Our job as parents is to focus on
protecting our kids, not punishing our kids. So our line,
our conversation points should be something like this. I love you.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I love you no matter what. I love you no
matter how you identify, no matter what you choose.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
But I also love you too much to let you
risk your mental health by continuing down a pathway where
you start to think that you are not a human.
Because you are. You are a loved and needed and
valued and worthy human and part of our family. And
we are going to affirm that because that's who you are.
You're our son, you're our daughter. You're the one that
we will weep with as you work through these hard things.
(17:28):
That is going to be really, really hard, And I
know there will be some people who will say that
it could be dangerous for their kids. I'm so sorry,
but it's already dangerous. If your child is playing in
Furreyville right now and has adopted a Ferstsna, their anxiety
and their depression levels are almost certainly through the roof,
and the risk of them trying to take their lives
is already vastly higher than it would be if they
(17:49):
were developing like a typical young person. So I just
don't buy the line that you're endangering their life by
treating them like a person rather than a furry.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You need to wrap this up.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Final words, final action steps, final way to proceed. If
you're worried about this Number one, I just want to
make it really clear. This is not harmless fandom. Kids
who are playing in this area are usually dealing with
a whole lot of other issues, and it can be dangerous.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The tragedy of this.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I really hate this because when a little kid wants
to dress up like Tigger or where a put a
tail on, a run around the house like we probably
did when we were kids once upon a time, that
was harmless fun, and now kids can't do that because
parents are paranoid because what if this turns into something
more than what it already is.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's just so sad.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
As parents, our job is protection. If we don't guide
our children's development, the online communities will, and.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
They do it so well.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
They groom brilliantly. And lastly, truly compassionate parenting means preventing harm,
not responding to harm, but preventing harm by drawing that
line in the sand. Any last words, if I have a.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Child who wants to at me, I want to tell
them how much I miss hearing their voice. And I
want to understand and know what it is that they're
feeling and how they feel about the world around them.
While ever they're barking at me, I can't. I can't
even begin to comprehend or understand them.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Okay, Kylie, let's wrap this up. We will link to
the University of Bycato study. It's actually quite a balanced
study and maybe even a little bit too pro for
my liking based on my bias. Nevertheless, we'll link to
that in the show notes. The Happy Families podcast is
produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
If you'd like more information and more resources to
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Make your family happier, you'll find it at happy families
dot com, dot a
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