May 28, 2025 • 18 mins
A major new report from the OECD has revealed shocking insights into how screen use is shaping children's lives—and not for the better. In this episode, Justin and Kylie Coulson unpack the disturbing statistics, explain the real-world impact of screens on kids’ mental health, relationships, and development, and offer practical, age-specific strategies to help parents take back control. From toddlers to teens, this is the digital wake-up call every parent needs.
KEY POINTS
- Startling Stats:
- Aussie teens average 7 hours of screen time per day.
- 12% use screens more than 80 hours per week.
- 70% of 10-year-olds “own” smartphones.
- 60% of Australian girls report severe distress from cyberbullying.
- 4 Uncomfortable Truths for Parents:
- Real-world problems predict digital problems. Kids in distress offline turn to screens for escape.
- Most parents are fighting the wrong war. The issue is less about screen time and more about content and connection.
- It’s a bi-directional trap. Poor mental health drives screen addiction, and screen use worsens mental health.
- Parental hypocrisy matters. Kids don’t listen if we model the very behaviour we criticise.
- The Hidden Costs of Screen Use:
Depression, anxiety, loneliness, academic decline, sleep issues, and family conflict all rise with excessive and unsupervised screen use. - The Real Solution:
Strong offline relationships, autonomy-supportive parenting, and a focus on values, not just rules or limits.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE
“You can’t lift someone up if you’re underneath them. You’ve got to stand on high ground.”
— Justin Coulson
RESOURCES MENTIONED
- OECD Report: How’s Life for Children in the Digital Age?
- The Parenting Revolution by Justin Coulson
- Happy Families Webinars and Courses
- Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg
- Past episodes on sextortion and gaming
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS
For Kids Aged 0–7:
- Be present during screen time or avoid it altogether.
- Keep devices out of bedrooms—model this yourself.
- Avoid gamified apps and addictive content. Prioritise simple, slow-paced shows (e.g., Bluey).
For Kids Aged 8–12:
- Create a co-designed family media plan.
- Prioritise what they’re consuming, not just how much.
- Invest in offline activities and friendships—nature, play, and sport are protective.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
How is Life for Children in the Digital Age? A
brand new report published in the last two weeks by
the OECD. I don't even know what it stands for,
the Organization for Economic and Cooperative Development or something like that. Ah,
we see they have publish this big report all about
what is going on with our kids and screens. You
already know before we start the pod that's going to
be bad. But how bad The stats are going to
(00:28):
blow your mind. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,
Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
We are justin and Kylie Colson. Kylie, you've got the
stats in front of you. Hit me with them. These
are I don't want to be one of those oh
my goodness, the sky is falling kind of people When
I look at these.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
They don't want to be a Henny Penny correct.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But I feel like if you're a parent child has
a screen in the hand, you just need to know
that this is going on.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Statistic number one, Australian teenagers are spending fourteen nine hours
per week on screen. That's including school work.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, so that's seven hours a day that they're staring
at a screen. Once you take sleep out as well,
Let's say ten hours, seventeen hours of the day is
gone for sleep, You've got travel, a what sort of stuff?
There's not a lot left for life. Seven hours per day,
but that's on average. What was the sort of higher end.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Twelve percent are spending over eighty hours per week. That's
more than a full time job.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, it's double at full time jobs forty hours a week.
So more than one in ten twelve percent eighty hours
a week on a screen. You do the maths, it's
more than ten hours per day. In fact, hang on maths,
it's more than eleven hours per day. More than eleven
hours per day on a screen. Twelve percent of kids.
There there's also some stats around how many kids at
a young age owned smartphones.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
This is blowing my mind. Seventy percent of ten year
old already have their own smartphone.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, so the OECD uses the word own. Let's be
really clear, no ten year old owns a smartphone, and
if they do, I don't want. I don't want a
parent shame. But kids shouldn't be owing smartphones, especially at
the age of ten.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I'm actually speechless because we talk about screens and the
challenges that we're experiencing on a weekly basis on the podcast.
So this is not unknown.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So maybe only thirty percent of Austraian parents listen to
what we're saying. I don't know of ten year olds
are already on a smartphone. There are two other important
stats that we've pulled out of here that we think
just need highlighting, flashing lights.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Nearly one in five teens spends more time gaming than studying.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
At school yep, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And the last one is sixty percent of Australian girls
report severe distress from cyberbullying.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So just just pause on that. That needs a moment
to breathe. Sixty percent, nearly two Australian girls. They're not
just reporting cyber bullying, they're reporting quote unquote severe distress,
severe distress.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And we're amongst the highest globally.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, I think the only people who beat us are
I think we're number two. I think we're number two,
with the US being just in front of us. And
this is not one of those lists that you want
to be on the top of. So following on from
yesterday's discussion with Scott Novis, the former Disney vice president,
where we previewed Saturday's major interview about kids in gaming.
I just want to reinforce a couple of things that
(03:10):
he said and that we touched on yesterday or that
will be touched on on Saturday. And I was through
this really quickly because we need to know it, but
we don't need to dwell on it because we talk
about it all the time. Number One, games and social
media are engineered with dopemine release triggers and unpredictable rewards.
You get that variable ratio reward to sustain engagement and
(03:32):
get you and your kids hooked. That's literally what they're
trying to do. They're maximizing engagement, maximizing addiction, wanting to
make our children, who are the most vulnerable, drawn in
for prolonged use. We know from the OECD data ten
percent of teens are reporting problematic social media use. That's
up from seven percent five years ago. It's a three
percent increase, not massive, but at a problematic level. Ten percent.
(03:55):
Seventeen percent of fifteen year olds feel anxious when they're
without their devices. I think that that's an underestimate. I
know that when I talk to adults, pretty much seventy
percent of adults feel quite anxious without their devices. I
know it happens to me from time to time. I
love it and then I hate it. And boys are,
consistent with previous year's research, much more prone to gaming
(04:16):
disorders and girls to social media addiction.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
In some ways, I'm really blown away that we're still
having to have this conversation. But the reality is screen
usage is having such a massive negative impact on our kids' lives.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Okay, so I'll go through the things that we talk
about all the time. You can add any that you
think that I've missed. We usually talk about excessive use
being linked to depression, anxiety, loneliness, academic struggles, sleep deprivation,
lack of exercise, physical activity, that kind of stuff. Then
there's the content issues what your children are actually being
exposed to, which I think are probably the biggest things.
They're the ones that jump out at me immediately because
(04:52):
we talk about them all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Pornography, violence, and sextortion.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yep, yeah, yeah, I mean we had Julian mcgrant talking
about sextortion not long ago, and Tinag boys being being
taken for an absolute ride and sometimes losing their lives
because of this stuff. We know that our Australian kids
are among the most distressed because of online harassment. There's
genuine damage and that's stuff that's happening to our kids
(05:17):
based on what's happening online. I think there's one more
thing that we really need to highlight here as a
genuine concern, a big problem that comes from this, and
it's that family relationships blow up, like there's so many
wars in bedroom doorways and in living rooms where parents
are walking in and saying, get off your screen. I've
had enough of this, We're done. There's a guy called
Marshall Rosenberg. I've got his book, in fact, i'm touching
(05:38):
it right now, right above my head on my bookshelf.
It's called Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. He died
a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
He's pretty what's the word for it, It's pretty dry,
not the most inspiring guy to listen to or read,
but his models and his ideas are just brilliant. And
what we're describing here, this family conflict, he would call
that violent communication. He's got a model of how we
can communicate non violently around challenging things. We might do
a podcast episode about it sometime in the next couple
(06:06):
of weeks. It's really really good stuff. So after the break,
I want to share a couple of things. First off,
four uncomfortable truths about what the OECD have discovered about
children and their screen use. And then just a handful
of directives, a handful of really simple things that you
can do based on your child's age to protect them
from the disaster that the screen world invites into their lives. Okay,
(06:38):
so four things, four uncomfortable truths that this OECD report
has life for children in the digital age brings up
for me that I think every parent needs to know.
There's a lot here. I want to go through it quickly, Kylie.
I haven't really broken this down for you, but I've
given you the four headlines, so you walk me through
it and I'll add the color and flavor that needs
to be there.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
So your child's real world problems predict their digital problems.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Here, So basically, if your child is having real world problems,
they're likely to have digital problems, and there's going to
be a correlation between the two. So what you often
find is that if your child is not doing well
in the real world around physical activity or relationships, or
if things about in the family. Guess what, They're at
greater risk of digital addiction, right because they turn to
the screens because they're not doing well. The OECD found
(07:23):
that kids with behavioral issues, kids with low levels of
resilience and psychological well being are the most vulnerable. They
found that this number grabbed me. Nearly half of all
teens forty six percent of teens are using social media
to get away from the negative feelings, so they're not
addicted to screens as much as they're just saying I
don't like my reality, and the screen gives me the escape.
It supports my basic psychological needs in ways that the
(07:45):
analog world can't.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But the crazy thing is they get online and then
they find themselves spiraling in this world of competition and comparison,
and they can never meet up to the standards that
they're seeing.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
The belief that the perfectible life is out there and
it's devastating. And the more time they spend online, the
more everything else deteriorates as well.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Number two, most parents are fighting the wrong war.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Ye, So I want to speak directly to parents who
are trying to have these violent conversations, and I use
the word violence really, really intentionally here. I'm not suggesting
that parents are quote unquote violent physically, but when we
say things like that's it, I've had enough, You've got
five minutes to go, and then I'm switching it off,
there's a threat, okay, and the threat to a child
(08:31):
can feel it's a really triggering word, but it can
feel violent to them. I'm going back to the Marshall
Rosenberg thing. How can we communicate in a non violent way.
When we're imposing time limits in a punitive way, we're
fighting the wrong war. I think what works better than
time restrictions is making sure that we're talking about content.
Time restrictions matter too, but content is the bigger issue
(08:53):
for me. Children who come from neglectful or authoritarian home
show much higher rates of gaming disorder and other challenges online.
So again, this is a parenting issue. Either the parents
don't care, that's the neglectful side, or they're pushing too hard.
Force creates resistance. That's where we see the really big problems. Essentially,
(09:16):
your parenting style matters more than all the filters and
all the controls that you can put on it. Autonomy support.
Autonomy support is what we talk about in this pot
all the time, non violent communication problem, solving for discipline
rather than punishment for discipline, helping kids to get there.
That's the second, really really uncomfortable truth. Parenting is a
big part of this problem.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So you've been using this big word you've been talking about,
the by directional trap.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I can't help it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It sounds so academic.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Academic me. I'm a scientist, I'm a researcher. What do
you want me to do?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
You just break it down for the average mum and dad.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Really simple. Poor mental health leads to problematic digital use.
Problematic digital use worsens mental health. Bi directional me. It
goes both ways. Okay, so if you've got one problem,
that facilitates and builds the other problem. But once you've
got that other problem, it also builds the initial problem
that you had. It's kind of like parential control and anxiety. Like,
as a parent, when you start to get really really
(10:13):
anxious about your child, you become more controlling. And the
more controlling you are, the more you feel anxious when
your child's doing anything that is concerning for you, and
so you get more controlling. It's like this never ending
spiral or this loop that keeps on going. Fundamentally, kids
being on devices, especially around social media, is going to
give you this temporary relief and let's say loneliness, but
(10:36):
it's going to increase negative emotions the next day. The
data actually shows this. There's this temporal delay so that
what you're doing today impacts how you're feeling tomorrow. And
when kids have a really big day like eleven hours
on social media, scrolling just doom, scrolling right and trying
to imagine how their life can be as good as
everyone else's because it's clearly on the screen everyone else
is having the best time ever. Oh my goodness, it's
(10:58):
so hard. And what the OEC report also showed in
this bi directional trap essentially is that kids turn to
online spaces when they're family and their other analog relationships
are failing them like real world relationships not working. Go online,
but those relationships are hollow, hollow imitations of what a
real relationship needs to be. For the most part, now
are their support of communities, communities that can make a
(11:18):
difference and help you. Of course there are, but that's
really what we're what we're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And number four, the parent hypocrisy problem.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I'm just going to call it parents own modeling. Parents
own device usage interferes with parenting, makes parents distracted, and
it creates more conflict, and the kids don't want to
listen to you because you're getting it wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So I just think what we're you're not talking about
parents owning it. You're talking about their specific interactions with
their screens.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Correct. Absolutely, And the OECD report I'm not saying it.
The OECD report is showing it. The kids are saying,
my parents are on the device all the time. It
creates conflict between us. But also they're telling me to
get off, but they don't get it off, like what's
their screen time like? And this is part of the problem.
We're modeling it, we're normalizing it. Now kids are saying, well,
if you can do it, I can do it too.
It doesn't seem fair, It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So if we find ourselves in this rat race of
struggling to communicate in nonviolent ways with our kids when
it comes to screens, how can we help parents or
navigate this space?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Like I said, I think that we need to have
a conversation about nonviolent communication on the pod In a
couple of weeks time, when we've got some space in
there for it. It's really really great stuff. And now
that I've touched, now that I've put my hand on
the book, it's kind of making me want to pull
it down and read it and go to all of
my highlighted bits and pieces. So we will do that.
I think it'll be a great podcast episode. In the meantime,
what I really want to emphasize is just a couple
of really simple things for each age group. So if
(12:42):
you kids are under about the age of I'm going
to say seven or eight, first of all, either be
present during screen time or don't allow it. Co engage
or cut it off. Now that sounds really, really harsh.
I know that every now and again you want to
be able to do a poo without the kids coming
into the toil. I'm sorry for being grows, but sometimes
you just want to go to the toilet in peace.
(13:02):
So I get that I'm not hardcore on this, but
to the extent that you can be present during screen
time or don't allow it. Second thing I would say
about cocooning these early years up to about the age
of eight is bedrooms are sacred. No devices in bedrooms,
and you've got to model that as much as the kids.
And there is a third thing that I quickly want
to add, and that is you want to minimize the
time that they're spending on games and things that basically
(13:26):
turn devices into gambling. For kids, this is where the
compelling compulsive use comes in, and this is where they
start to get hooked at the earliest ages. We need
to keep them away from that as long as possible.
I just think the best thing for kids, if you're
going to stick them in front of a screen is
ABC Kids, let them watch them Bluie. That works for
me best.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I've got bumbworms. I recently just saw a small reel
of a podcast that Jonathan Hate did, and he was
talking specifically about the fact that watching a movie with
your child is better than all of these short little
reels and things like that more times than not.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Because you're not getting that instant dope hit that keeps
you addicted.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Right Yeah. Well, and you've got characters in there who
you know, kind of grow and they've got morals and standards.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
You develop empathy, it teaches values, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And often you'll watch a movie together, so you've got that,
You've got that you know, kind of physical connection.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And a movie has an endpoint it does, whereas the
YouTube algorithm will just keep on feeding your material for eternity.
Let's talk about middle childhood. Just three quick things that
I want to hit here. First of all, your cocuning
when kids are younger. As the kids get older, you're
now starting to pre arm, but you're building fortresses for them.
So I'm not huge on family media plans. I don't
(14:45):
think they work particularly well for older kids. But for
younger kids, and I'm talking like eight to twelve year olds,
this is actually an opportunity where you still have a
fairly high level of cooperative control. That is, you can
work things out together, but as the parent, you do
get to step in and say, I'm in charge and
we've agreed on this, so we're going to make sure
it happens like You can really do this with younger kids,
(15:07):
So work out what works for us, what doesn't, and
stick to it, including parents. Second thing, I've emphasized this already,
but briefly, monitor what they see. Focus on that probably
more than how long they're watching it. How long they're
watching it matters as well, So it doesn't just place
things that matter, but the content, the content is such
(15:28):
a thing here and I just reckon at this age,
they're starting to develop independence, invest in the offline world,
physical activities, friendships, getting outside nature is feel for the soul.
All this sort of stuff is armor against digital harm.
What about our teenagers just three things. We're moving into
autonomy support. This is where we really have to pick
(15:50):
our battles and we literally say, okay, what do we
need to work on. Just remember the stricter you are,
like rules with that relationship lead to rebellion. It's about
autonomy support, get the relationship right, problem solved together. That's
where you really want to go. If there are any
real world problems addressed, those like the family stress, that's
just going to exacerbate the conflict over screens. So if
there are any mental health issues, if there's any social struggles,
(16:13):
you really want to work on that. And I keep
on coming back to this. As parents, we have got
to model things ruthlessly. We've got to be good examples
ourselves or we cannot. We simply cannot ask our children
to be ruthless with their own screen usage. You can't
lift someone up if you're underneath them. You've got to
stand on high ground.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
And go camping.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yes, just go geeah you and get off the grid.
It's so good for you. All right. That is the
OECD report. I know most people aren't going to read it.
We will link to it in the show notes. It's
one hundred and eighty pages of single space print. Like,
there's so much there, but if you're interested in it,
it's called How's Life for Children in the Digital Age?
I actually recommend it. I reckon there's some really good
(16:54):
content there that we do as parents want to be across.
Bottom line. Let's wrap this up. Bottom line, and the
responsibility for what's going on in your kids digital lives
fundamentally at rests with you. It shouldn't, but it does.
We've got to wait for the tech companies to stop
exploiting our kids. I hate to say, it never gonna happen.
We need to wait for our politicians to provide the
(17:14):
legislation that we need to protect our kids. It's never
going to happen. I'm just I'm skeptical because if they do,
the tech companies will well get exploitative and find other
ways to get them out of office. I just I
just don't believe that it's going to happen. So strong
offline foundations your best defense. That's what we need to build.
Hope you've loved the pod a little bit longer than normal.
Such an important topic and so many families are struggling
(17:36):
with it, which is why we've spent the time on it.
The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin rule On
from Bridge Media. For more info and more resources about
this conversation, got a couple of great webinars in the
Happy Families shop. Go to Happy families dot com dot
a U, or pick up a copy of my book,
The Parenting Revolution, because that's what we really need to
(17:57):
get this right.
How is Life for Children in the Digital Age? A
brand new report published in the last two weeks by
the OECD. I don't even know what it stands for,
the Organization for Economic and Cooperative Development or something like that. Ah,
we see they have publish this big report all about
what is going on with our kids and screens. You
already know before we start the pod that's going to
be bad. But how bad The stats are going to
(00:28):
blow your mind. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,
Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
We are justin and Kylie Colson. Kylie, you've got the
stats in front of you. Hit me with them. These
are I don't want to be one of those oh
my goodness, the sky is falling kind of people When
I look at these.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
They don't want to be a Henny Penny correct.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But I feel like if you're a parent child has
a screen in the hand, you just need to know
that this is going on.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Statistic number one, Australian teenagers are spending fourteen nine hours
per week on screen. That's including school work.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, so that's seven hours a day that they're staring
at a screen. Once you take sleep out as well,
Let's say ten hours, seventeen hours of the day is
gone for sleep, You've got travel, a what sort of stuff?
There's not a lot left for life. Seven hours per day,
but that's on average. What was the sort of higher end.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Twelve percent are spending over eighty hours per week. That's
more than a full time job.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, it's double at full time jobs forty hours a week.
So more than one in ten twelve percent eighty hours
a week on a screen. You do the maths, it's
more than ten hours per day. In fact, hang on maths,
it's more than eleven hours per day. More than eleven
hours per day on a screen. Twelve percent of kids.
There there's also some stats around how many kids at
a young age owned smartphones.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
This is blowing my mind. Seventy percent of ten year
old already have their own smartphone.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, so the OECD uses the word own. Let's be
really clear, no ten year old owns a smartphone, and
if they do, I don't want. I don't want a
parent shame. But kids shouldn't be owing smartphones, especially at
the age of ten.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I'm actually speechless because we talk about screens and the
challenges that we're experiencing on a weekly basis on the podcast.
So this is not unknown.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So maybe only thirty percent of Austraian parents listen to
what we're saying. I don't know of ten year olds
are already on a smartphone. There are two other important
stats that we've pulled out of here that we think
just need highlighting, flashing lights.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Nearly one in five teens spends more time gaming than studying.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
At school yep, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And the last one is sixty percent of Australian girls
report severe distress from cyberbullying.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So just just pause on that. That needs a moment
to breathe. Sixty percent, nearly two Australian girls. They're not
just reporting cyber bullying, they're reporting quote unquote severe distress,
severe distress.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And we're amongst the highest globally.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, I think the only people who beat us are
I think we're number two. I think we're number two,
with the US being just in front of us. And
this is not one of those lists that you want
to be on the top of. So following on from
yesterday's discussion with Scott Novis, the former Disney vice president,
where we previewed Saturday's major interview about kids in gaming.
I just want to reinforce a couple of things that
(03:10):
he said and that we touched on yesterday or that
will be touched on on Saturday. And I was through
this really quickly because we need to know it, but
we don't need to dwell on it because we talk
about it all the time. Number One, games and social
media are engineered with dopemine release triggers and unpredictable rewards.
You get that variable ratio reward to sustain engagement and
(03:32):
get you and your kids hooked. That's literally what they're
trying to do. They're maximizing engagement, maximizing addiction, wanting to
make our children, who are the most vulnerable, drawn in
for prolonged use. We know from the OECD data ten
percent of teens are reporting problematic social media use. That's
up from seven percent five years ago. It's a three
percent increase, not massive, but at a problematic level. Ten percent.
(03:55):
Seventeen percent of fifteen year olds feel anxious when they're
without their devices. I think that that's an underestimate. I
know that when I talk to adults, pretty much seventy
percent of adults feel quite anxious without their devices. I
know it happens to me from time to time. I
love it and then I hate it. And boys are,
consistent with previous year's research, much more prone to gaming
(04:16):
disorders and girls to social media addiction.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
In some ways, I'm really blown away that we're still
having to have this conversation. But the reality is screen
usage is having such a massive negative impact on our kids' lives.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Okay, so I'll go through the things that we talk
about all the time. You can add any that you
think that I've missed. We usually talk about excessive use
being linked to depression, anxiety, loneliness, academic struggles, sleep deprivation,
lack of exercise, physical activity, that kind of stuff. Then
there's the content issues what your children are actually being
exposed to, which I think are probably the biggest things.
They're the ones that jump out at me immediately because
(04:52):
we talk about them all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Pornography, violence, and sextortion.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yep, yeah, yeah, I mean we had Julian mcgrant talking
about sextortion not long ago, and Tinag boys being being
taken for an absolute ride and sometimes losing their lives
because of this stuff. We know that our Australian kids
are among the most distressed because of online harassment. There's
genuine damage and that's stuff that's happening to our kids
(05:17):
based on what's happening online. I think there's one more
thing that we really need to highlight here as a
genuine concern, a big problem that comes from this, and
it's that family relationships blow up, like there's so many
wars in bedroom doorways and in living rooms where parents
are walking in and saying, get off your screen. I've
had enough of this, We're done. There's a guy called
Marshall Rosenberg. I've got his book, in fact, i'm touching
(05:38):
it right now, right above my head on my bookshelf.
It's called Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. He died
a few years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
He's pretty what's the word for it, It's pretty dry,
not the most inspiring guy to listen to or read,
but his models and his ideas are just brilliant. And
what we're describing here, this family conflict, he would call
that violent communication. He's got a model of how we
can communicate non violently around challenging things. We might do
a podcast episode about it sometime in the next couple
(06:06):
of weeks. It's really really good stuff. So after the break,
I want to share a couple of things. First off,
four uncomfortable truths about what the OECD have discovered about
children and their screen use. And then just a handful
of directives, a handful of really simple things that you
can do based on your child's age to protect them
from the disaster that the screen world invites into their lives. Okay,
(06:38):
so four things, four uncomfortable truths that this OECD report
has life for children in the digital age brings up
for me that I think every parent needs to know.
There's a lot here. I want to go through it quickly, Kylie.
I haven't really broken this down for you, but I've
given you the four headlines, so you walk me through
it and I'll add the color and flavor that needs
to be there.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
So your child's real world problems predict their digital problems.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Here, So basically, if your child is having real world problems,
they're likely to have digital problems, and there's going to
be a correlation between the two. So what you often
find is that if your child is not doing well
in the real world around physical activity or relationships, or
if things about in the family. Guess what, They're at
greater risk of digital addiction, right because they turn to
the screens because they're not doing well. The OECD found
(07:23):
that kids with behavioral issues, kids with low levels of
resilience and psychological well being are the most vulnerable. They
found that this number grabbed me. Nearly half of all
teens forty six percent of teens are using social media
to get away from the negative feelings, so they're not
addicted to screens as much as they're just saying I
don't like my reality, and the screen gives me the escape.
It supports my basic psychological needs in ways that the
(07:45):
analog world can't.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But the crazy thing is they get online and then
they find themselves spiraling in this world of competition and comparison,
and they can never meet up to the standards that
they're seeing.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
The belief that the perfectible life is out there and
it's devastating. And the more time they spend online, the
more everything else deteriorates as well.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Number two, most parents are fighting the wrong war.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Ye, So I want to speak directly to parents who
are trying to have these violent conversations, and I use
the word violence really, really intentionally here. I'm not suggesting
that parents are quote unquote violent physically, but when we
say things like that's it, I've had enough, You've got
five minutes to go, and then I'm switching it off,
there's a threat, okay, and the threat to a child
(08:31):
can feel it's a really triggering word, but it can
feel violent to them. I'm going back to the Marshall
Rosenberg thing. How can we communicate in a non violent way.
When we're imposing time limits in a punitive way, we're
fighting the wrong war. I think what works better than
time restrictions is making sure that we're talking about content.
Time restrictions matter too, but content is the bigger issue
(08:53):
for me. Children who come from neglectful or authoritarian home
show much higher rates of gaming disorder and other challenges online.
So again, this is a parenting issue. Either the parents
don't care, that's the neglectful side, or they're pushing too hard.
Force creates resistance. That's where we see the really big problems. Essentially,
(09:16):
your parenting style matters more than all the filters and
all the controls that you can put on it. Autonomy support.
Autonomy support is what we talk about in this pot
all the time, non violent communication problem, solving for discipline
rather than punishment for discipline, helping kids to get there.
That's the second, really really uncomfortable truth. Parenting is a
big part of this problem.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So you've been using this big word you've been talking about,
the by directional trap.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I can't help it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It sounds so academic.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Academic me. I'm a scientist, I'm a researcher. What do
you want me to do?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
You just break it down for the average mum and dad.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Really simple. Poor mental health leads to problematic digital use.
Problematic digital use worsens mental health. Bi directional me. It
goes both ways. Okay, so if you've got one problem,
that facilitates and builds the other problem. But once you've
got that other problem, it also builds the initial problem
that you had. It's kind of like parential control and anxiety. Like,
as a parent, when you start to get really really
(10:13):
anxious about your child, you become more controlling. And the
more controlling you are, the more you feel anxious when
your child's doing anything that is concerning for you, and
so you get more controlling. It's like this never ending
spiral or this loop that keeps on going. Fundamentally, kids
being on devices, especially around social media, is going to
give you this temporary relief and let's say loneliness, but
(10:36):
it's going to increase negative emotions the next day. The
data actually shows this. There's this temporal delay so that
what you're doing today impacts how you're feeling tomorrow. And
when kids have a really big day like eleven hours
on social media, scrolling just doom, scrolling right and trying
to imagine how their life can be as good as
everyone else's because it's clearly on the screen everyone else
is having the best time ever. Oh my goodness, it's
(10:58):
so hard. And what the OEC report also showed in
this bi directional trap essentially is that kids turn to
online spaces when they're family and their other analog relationships
are failing them like real world relationships not working. Go online,
but those relationships are hollow, hollow imitations of what a
real relationship needs to be. For the most part, now
are their support of communities, communities that can make a
(11:18):
difference and help you. Of course there are, but that's
really what we're what we're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And number four, the parent hypocrisy problem.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I'm just going to call it parents own modeling. Parents
own device usage interferes with parenting, makes parents distracted, and
it creates more conflict, and the kids don't want to
listen to you because you're getting it wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
So I just think what we're you're not talking about
parents owning it. You're talking about their specific interactions with
their screens.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Correct. Absolutely, And the OECD report I'm not saying it.
The OECD report is showing it. The kids are saying,
my parents are on the device all the time. It
creates conflict between us. But also they're telling me to
get off, but they don't get it off, like what's
their screen time like? And this is part of the problem.
We're modeling it, we're normalizing it. Now kids are saying, well,
if you can do it, I can do it too.
It doesn't seem fair, It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So if we find ourselves in this rat race of
struggling to communicate in nonviolent ways with our kids when
it comes to screens, how can we help parents or
navigate this space?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Like I said, I think that we need to have
a conversation about nonviolent communication on the pod In a
couple of weeks time, when we've got some space in
there for it. It's really really great stuff. And now
that I've touched, now that I've put my hand on
the book, it's kind of making me want to pull
it down and read it and go to all of
my highlighted bits and pieces. So we will do that.
I think it'll be a great podcast episode. In the meantime,
what I really want to emphasize is just a couple
of really simple things for each age group. So if
(12:42):
you kids are under about the age of I'm going
to say seven or eight, first of all, either be
present during screen time or don't allow it. Co engage
or cut it off. Now that sounds really, really harsh.
I know that every now and again you want to
be able to do a poo without the kids coming
into the toil. I'm sorry for being grows, but sometimes
you just want to go to the toilet in peace.
(13:02):
So I get that I'm not hardcore on this, but
to the extent that you can be present during screen
time or don't allow it. Second thing I would say
about cocooning these early years up to about the age
of eight is bedrooms are sacred. No devices in bedrooms,
and you've got to model that as much as the kids.
And there is a third thing that I quickly want
to add, and that is you want to minimize the
time that they're spending on games and things that basically
(13:26):
turn devices into gambling. For kids, this is where the
compelling compulsive use comes in, and this is where they
start to get hooked at the earliest ages. We need
to keep them away from that as long as possible.
I just think the best thing for kids, if you're
going to stick them in front of a screen is
ABC Kids, let them watch them Bluie. That works for
me best.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I've got bumbworms. I recently just saw a small reel
of a podcast that Jonathan Hate did, and he was
talking specifically about the fact that watching a movie with
your child is better than all of these short little
reels and things like that more times than not.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Because you're not getting that instant dope hit that keeps
you addicted.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Right Yeah. Well, and you've got characters in there who
you know, kind of grow and they've got morals and standards.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
You develop empathy, it teaches values, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And often you'll watch a movie together, so you've got that,
You've got that you know, kind of physical connection.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
And a movie has an endpoint it does, whereas the
YouTube algorithm will just keep on feeding your material for eternity.
Let's talk about middle childhood. Just three quick things that
I want to hit here. First of all, your cocuning
when kids are younger. As the kids get older, you're
now starting to pre arm, but you're building fortresses for them.
So I'm not huge on family media plans. I don't
(14:45):
think they work particularly well for older kids. But for
younger kids, and I'm talking like eight to twelve year olds,
this is actually an opportunity where you still have a
fairly high level of cooperative control. That is, you can
work things out together, but as the parent, you do
get to step in and say, I'm in charge and
we've agreed on this, so we're going to make sure
it happens like You can really do this with younger kids,
(15:07):
So work out what works for us, what doesn't, and
stick to it, including parents. Second thing, I've emphasized this already,
but briefly, monitor what they see. Focus on that probably
more than how long they're watching it. How long they're
watching it matters as well, So it doesn't just place
things that matter, but the content, the content is such
(15:28):
a thing here and I just reckon at this age,
they're starting to develop independence, invest in the offline world,
physical activities, friendships, getting outside nature is feel for the soul.
All this sort of stuff is armor against digital harm.
What about our teenagers just three things. We're moving into
autonomy support. This is where we really have to pick
(15:50):
our battles and we literally say, okay, what do we
need to work on. Just remember the stricter you are,
like rules with that relationship lead to rebellion. It's about
autonomy support, get the relationship right, problem solved together. That's
where you really want to go. If there are any
real world problems addressed, those like the family stress, that's
just going to exacerbate the conflict over screens. So if
there are any mental health issues, if there's any social struggles,
(16:13):
you really want to work on that. And I keep
on coming back to this. As parents, we have got
to model things ruthlessly. We've got to be good examples
ourselves or we cannot. We simply cannot ask our children
to be ruthless with their own screen usage. You can't
lift someone up if you're underneath them. You've got to
stand on high ground.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
And go camping.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yes, just go geeah you and get off the grid.
It's so good for you. All right. That is the
OECD report. I know most people aren't going to read it.
We will link to it in the show notes. It's
one hundred and eighty pages of single space print. Like,
there's so much there, but if you're interested in it,
it's called How's Life for Children in the Digital Age?
I actually recommend it. I reckon there's some really good
(16:54):
content there that we do as parents want to be across.
Bottom line. Let's wrap this up. Bottom line, and the
responsibility for what's going on in your kids digital lives
fundamentally at rests with you. It shouldn't, but it does.
We've got to wait for the tech companies to stop
exploiting our kids. I hate to say, it never gonna happen.
We need to wait for our politicians to provide the
(17:14):
legislation that we need to protect our kids. It's never
going to happen. I'm just I'm skeptical because if they do,
the tech companies will well get exploitative and find other
ways to get them out of office. I just I
just don't believe that it's going to happen. So strong
offline foundations your best defense. That's what we need to build.
Hope you've loved the pod a little bit longer than normal.
Such an important topic and so many families are struggling
(17:36):
with it, which is why we've spent the time on it.
The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin rule On
from Bridge Media. For more info and more resources about
this conversation, got a couple of great webinars in the
Happy Families shop. Go to Happy families dot com dot
a U, or pick up a copy of my book,
The Parenting Revolution, because that's what we really need to
(17:57):
get this right.
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