September 10, 2025 • 16 mins
When cookbook author and influencer Sarah’s holiday plans with her 6-year-old were suddenly stamped “unauthorised,” it lit up headlines — and sparked a question every parent asks: Is a week off school really that big a deal?
In this episode, Justin and Kylie dive into the tug-of-war between school rules and family priorities. Do term-time holidays harm learning, or can real-life experiences sometimes matter more? You’ll hear the research, the rules (state by state), and the reality for families just trying to make it work.
KEY POINTS
- The viral story that sparked the debate: Sarah’s denied leave mid-flight.
- Why rules vary wildly depending on your postcode (NSW vs. QLD vs. VIC).
- What the research really says about missing school — even just a few days.
- The cost factor: why many families can’t afford school-holiday travel.
- When family connection, culture, and life experience outweigh the timetable.
- Practical tips for working with schools to find a middle ground.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE
"The real question isn’t about holidays — it’s whether we trust parents to make wise, nuanced decisions for their kids." – Justin Coulson
RESOURCES MENTIONED
- Happy Families Website
- Connect with us on Instagram & Facebook
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS
- Check your state’s rules before booking — policies differ widely.
- Communicate early and respectfully with your child’s school.
- Choose timing wisely (avoid early weeks, assessment blocks, or transition times).
- Weigh family priorities — cost, connection, cultural experiences — alongside school routines.
- Remember the big picture: One week doesn’t define your child’s education.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Gooday, this is The Happy Family's podcast. Imagine this. The
email comes through mid flight your son can't go on
holidays during school term. That is the email that Sarah Stevenson,
cookbook author and influencer with one point two million followers
on Instagram at Sarah's Underscore Day, received a couple of
months back, but it was a little bit too late.
(00:27):
Sarah was already on board that plane with her six
year old son Fox, ready to fly to Fiji and
have fun. The excitement, the pat bags. You can imagine Fox,
I know, probably holding onto his tablet for the flight.
The email from Fox's New South Wales primary school arrives.
Sarah's response, she takes to Instagram as anyone with one
(00:48):
point two million followers probably would, and vents to all
those people about having to show flight receipts to the
principle like she's filing an insurance claim. She said, and
I quote, he's only missing five days of school. Yes,
I want him to learn how to read and write
and be in a classroom, but I haven't pulled him
out of school for a month. So here's the kicker.
Her followers overwhelmingly supported her comments like restricting when kids
(01:10):
can and can't go on a holiday's ridiculous and real
life experiences are way better than missing a week of
ABC's story was on news dot Com Dot a You
a few weeks back, as well as on our socials,
and it got us thinking, do we or don't we
take our kids out of school for a family holiday?
Is the bureaucracy right? Does every day at school count
(01:31):
or a parents within their rights to take a holiday
when it works for them. Life is pretty crazy after all.
So that's our conversation on today's podcast Stay with Us. Hello,
welcome to the Happy Families podcast. So glad you're here.
Thanks for choosing to listen with us. We are Justin
and Kylie Coulson with real parenting solutions apparently every day
(01:54):
on Australia's most downloaded Arny podcast. Kylie, you're ready for
this debate. You're ready to step into the hot seat play.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I have some really big opinions about this, but I
think it's worth looking at what the rules around this
are because they actually differ from state to state. In
New South Wales, travel is not underlined not a justified absence.
Schools must record it as unjustified period. Okay, Queensland and
(02:22):
Catholic systems consider holiday travel to be reasonable.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
In Victoria you need principal approval and a student learning
absence plan.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, because apparently this is a week I've read two
require strategic planning. Very good. Okay, so I.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Think this is really tricky. There's lots of paperwork. Parents
feel like they're back at school themselves, having to justify
their actions. Yeah, and get special permission. But my guess
is that school leaders and teachers alike don't really like
it either. They're in four seen policies sometimes that they
(03:01):
didn't create and may not even agree with.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yes, some might, but yes, yep, yep, fair enough.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And this is a system and that varies by post code.
It's inconsistent, right.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, So one state's one thing another and we've obviously
we've only done the Eastern states. Other states are part
of Australia. We recognize that. But we'll be here all day.
We go through all the rules everywhere. You know what
I think when I hear this, though, this is what
I don't think anyone talks about. You ask for permission,
you get to know from the school. My guess is
that most parents are probably going to go anyway, Like
you've paid for the airfares. Oh, you've got everything booked
(03:34):
and planned, you're still going to go on the holiday.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I don't think so. I think that it stops lots
of families from spending time together.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Okay, all right, we differ. Although I've never done a study,
and maybe you're right. Maybe a lot of people just say, no,
I don't want to have my child marketers having unauthorized absences. Okay.
I mean I'm the kind of person who'd say, I
know you don't want me to go, but I'm going anyway.
But we'll talk about that surely, because I think there's
a level of privilege and probably a level of arrogance
(04:02):
there as well, but we can cover that off shortly.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So I think it's important to make the case that
the Education Department would make why shouldn't kids miss school?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So, like I'm on the fence, there are some really
strong reasons that kids should be at school, and we
have to be.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
But again, we're not talking about taking them out for
a month or.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Six months week.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
We're talking about taking them out for a week so
they can spend time with families.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So I have a lot of sympathy. I have a
lot of sympathy for this position. I don't always agree
with it. Like I said, I'm getting splinters in my
bum from sitting on the fence, But I think that
I can have that desire to take the kids out
whenever I want because our kids have usually done pretty
well at school. I want to emphasize this isn't just
about Fox or whoever. It is missing some finger painting.
(04:49):
In terms of stats, we've gone from seventy five percent
of students attending ninety percent of school days in twenty
nineteen to just sixty percent attending ninety percent of school
days twenty twenty four. That is a massive drop.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I'm going to suggest that that has nothing to
do with family holidays and a lot more to do
with anxiety and depression.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I reckon that's a COVID one hundred percent potentially. Nevertheless,
we've got more school in attendance than ever before, dropping
from seventy five percent to sixty percent across that five
year period. With that many kids attending nine percent of school,
it's a big drop. Research also backs it up. So
a couple of years ago there was a big study
that was done and I've seen this in various other
(05:30):
smaller studies as well. Missing even one day of school,
whether it's per week or per fortnite or per term,
the research evidence shows that it does measurably affect academic outcomes.
Now we're talking about on average. I just need to
emphasize that is on average. But the bodies that promote this,
they're not just making it up. The data is there.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And if academic performance is our number one gauge for
success in life, then.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Great, But is it okay difficult?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Is that literally all we're striving for?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
The other thing that I was going to say, and
this is something where I'm going to really take the
side of the teachers for just a moment. I've spoken
to principles about this and teachers about it as well,
and what they'll often say is, it's not just that
the kid's going to have a holiday, or they're going
to have a sick day, or that they're going to
have that family event, or they're going to have the
mental health day or the birthday treat or whatever it is.
So they have a day of school. It's kind of
(06:23):
death by a thousand cuts for a classroom community, for
the continuity that's happening in the classroom because if you're
a teacher, you try to teach material, but you've got
these You've got kids away every day, and so you're
constantly having to teach kids who miss something, and it's
a new child every week, and so there's all this
back and forth. It's really hard to get your system
(06:44):
running well in the classroom when you have to keep
on going back and going over material and that sort
of thing. And the last point that I would make
is that, well.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That just sounds a bit like family life.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
If you ask me, you're sounding very unsympathetic.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I am not very sympathetic.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Schools have to draw the line somewhere as well. And
I just wonder when does school become optional? If everybody's
taking holiday whenever they want. It just makes things difficult
when you've got a systemized system, right, and that's what
we've got. We've got a standardized system that requires it. Now,
I'm not saying that I completely agree with it, but
these are the arguments that can be made from the
(07:18):
school's perspective, and I think that we should at least
have some compassionate sympathy for the teachers that are trying
to juggle it and recognize that this is a it's
a bit of a tricky quandary.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Okay, so you've got enough sympathy for both of us, right,
so we've given the Education department, we've played devil's advocate
for them. Be really great. If you could tell me
then why parents have an argument for taking their kids
away when it suits them. Yeah, okay, for me, it's
actually about costs and family priorities.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Right, So, well for us, because we've been through this.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yes, so we've got six children. We've actually had to
create a family tradition where we take one child away
at a time.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Once they're sixteen, because we actually.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Could never have afforded to take all six of them away.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I know some people say, well that's your fault, but
like when you have six kids, you do want to
be able to have a family holiday from time to time,
and it's expensive.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And I know lots of families that never go on
a holiday because they can't afford to do it in
the school holidays because everything is like double the price.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Well, school holiday accommodation can triple depending on where you're
going and whether it's peak season or off peak season.
Our flight price is definitely double working families should be
able to afford to have a family holiday. But the
reality is, I think that's a real challenge. And you
and I with our kids, we've spent years visiting family
in a stay both to see family but also to
say on.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
A couch, sleeping on the floor. Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm
sueezing into one bedroom.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
We still do. In fact, we've got a family holiday
coming up in a couple of weeks because we want
to get away. But it's like, oh my goodness, can
we really afford another family holiday where we can if
we sleep at at grandma's house. Grandma's house. Yeah, there
are family priorities, so aging grandparents sometimes it's not a luxury,
that's a necessity. Maybe there's deaths and marriages and those
(09:05):
kinds of things. I think it's also worth highlighting the
early year's reality. I don't think that a five year
old is missing anything that's particularly crucial. Kids are usually
going to learn more from travel than just sitting through
another a phonic session or another basic math session. And
when I look at what Sarah did, she pulled her
(09:27):
young child out so they could go and have a
family holiday in Fiji, for a bit. I think it's
okay whether it's family or relaxation, recreation. I also think
that there's a bit of hypocrisy from the education department
because they say that we can't waste a single day,
but last few days of term every term.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Not only the last few days, often it's the last
few weeks.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Well, as you move up to Christmas, it definitely is
the last couple of weeks at least pizza parties, movie marathons.
I'm not sure that every day matters, so it depends
on the day, and a lot of schools are scheduling
pupil free days, which they have the right to do,
but then they won't approve the student and family travel.
So yeah, I mean hardline attendants argument assumes that all
(10:11):
kids are struggling, that all families are a little bit flaky,
and school's always the highest value activity. You kind of
touched on that before. Some kids are thriving, some families
are intentional, and I again privileged position, but I put
us in that basket, and sometimes a week exploring a
new culture beats another week of a standardized curriculum. So
what do we do? We talked too long about this
already but we will talk it through after the break
(10:33):
in terms of making the decision that's right for your child,
the family, and taking into consideration all of those other factors.
That's coming up next. Okay, Kylie, Family holidays during school
term not a black and white issue, although the way
(10:54):
you're talking, maybe it's a bit more black and white
than I was suggesting.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I'm not suggesting it as black and white. I think
that most people have a level of intelligence isn't the
right word, but a level of awareness to recognize that
you're not going to pull your year twelve student out
right in the middle of exam prep or learning brand
new content that is going to impact their grades.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, this is about making intelligent judgment calls. And for
the most part, I mean, every parent wants their kids
to do well. They want their children that most parents
value education. Not all, but most parents value education and
are willing to encourage their children to do a great
job at school.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So when we've made some really big holiday decisions, we
have spoken with the school and we've said we're looking
at doing this and this is actually quite a big
deal for our family, and we're wondering if this is
going to have an impact on their learning, and teachers
have sometimes come back to us and said that that's
a really bad week. You can't do it then, But
(11:56):
they've also suggested that you've got a window. If you
kind of went from this date to this date, we
could probably we can work with it.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So that's something that I didn't have down in my
notes as I was thinking about this, and that is
just when you work with schools. Most of them, most educators,
most principles, are pretty reasonable about it, and most see
the value in, oh, this will be a culturally relevant
or valuable activity. There's worth in you doing this as
a family, and we get that sometimes it can be tricky.
We've never had a problem with this. That's why I
wanted to talk about it as well, because Sarah's experience
(12:25):
seems to be so strong.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Especially for a six year old.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, you've been rejected. Your request for leave has been
rejected for a six year old to do that. So
let's tap into a couple of things that I did
jot down Other than working with the school and being
productive and trying to make it work together. You've already
touched on this, but I want to be a little
bit clearer. I think timing matters. I don't think that
as a general rule it's useful to mess with the
(12:50):
first few weeks when kids are settling in.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I know several people who think that's the best time
to go because that's the cheapest. I would disagree. I
think the kids need stability, they need consistency, They need
to in the teacher needs to get to know them.
Missing those first couple of weeks of school, especially at
the start of the year.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Is a bit and cementing your place in the social circle.
It's a really big deal.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You've already touched on avoiding assessment periods and major projects.
I think that's important. Fair game though, is end of term. Yeah,
not a lot of learning going on there, Like fair enough.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Get out of there, I think so age.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I think age matters a lot here, So if you've
got young kids, you can probably get away with a
lot more play based learning to probably find it.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I know you're saying that, but I actually don't think
that's as black and white either. Really, I think for
our younger kids, when they're in you know, consistent schooling,
they actually need the consistency of schooling. It's really like
those formative years they actually need routine structure and consistency
(13:51):
around everything. So I think it really depends on the kids.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I reckon they're going to adapt pretty well. Yeah, fair call.
It depends on the child. So you've got to know
your child. If they're a high achiever, if they're going
to read books on the plane.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And I don't even think it's about that either though. Well,
I think it's more about, you know, are they a
kid that's really excited to be at school or are
they the kid that's constantly, you know, struggling to kind
of say goodbye each day. You're going to go back
to square one when you come back.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, I guess if you've got a really anxious kid
who's going to use any excuse to avoid school, it
might be a bit trickier. Although then again, I'm kind
of inclined to say, if've got a child who's struggling
that much, maybe having the break is going to give
them the rejuvenation and the refreshment that they need. I mean,
we're all over the place on this, seriously, I am. Anyway,
let's move to a big picture take home message. Submit
the paperwork. Depending on the school, it's probably going to
(14:40):
be denied communicate your reasoning respectfully. I think that's really important.
Work with the school in a collaborative way wherever you can.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What's the worst thing that's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
It's going to get marked unauthorized, and you're going going
to go on holidays anyway, and then you're going to
come back with a whole lot of photos and stories,
and the kids are going to be able to talk
about it, and you're going to be able to say, Yeah,
we got that time together. Will remember that for the
rest of our lives.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Did you have any employer look at your attendance record?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
No, Sometimes I think we get our niggas tied up
in twists for no reason at all.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, And I think the bigger picture is this, We're
not talking about chronic absenteism. We're not talking about families
who don't value education. We're saying, let's get families who
are making thoughtful, occasional decisions to prioritize a different kind
of learning, a different kind of connection. Like, the real
question isn't whether or not term time holidays should be allowed.
I think the real question is whether or not we
trust parents to make nuanced decisions about their own children's education,
(15:38):
or whether we've decided that schools no better than families
what the family needs. I think I've just made up
my mind, Like that's that's my take. That's my take.
What's your take? Are we raising a generation that thinks
rules of suggestions? Or are we finally recognizing that education
happens everywhere? Let us know at Facebook and Instagram. We've
got some social posts going up today to prompt the
(16:01):
question and get some feedback. Or you can email us
or send us a voice note to podcasts at happy
families dot com dot au. Just remembered, Kylie, I have
a confession. And November, last couple of weeks of the
school year, we're taking the kids away from my fiftieth
Should I write that letter?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Do you know how many hoops we had to jump
through to just get everybody on that plane?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Or we're going. We're going. I don't care what they say,
We're going. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin
Rowland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides additional support in terms
of research, admin and more. If you would like more
information about making your family happier, or just to join
in the conversation, check us out on our socials at
Facebook and Instagram, or visit happyfamilies dot com dot au
Gooday, this is The Happy Family's podcast. Imagine this. The
email comes through mid flight your son can't go on
holidays during school term. That is the email that Sarah Stevenson,
cookbook author and influencer with one point two million followers
on Instagram at Sarah's Underscore Day, received a couple of
months back, but it was a little bit too late.
(00:27):
Sarah was already on board that plane with her six
year old son Fox, ready to fly to Fiji and
have fun. The excitement, the pat bags. You can imagine Fox,
I know, probably holding onto his tablet for the flight.
The email from Fox's New South Wales primary school arrives.
Sarah's response, she takes to Instagram as anyone with one
(00:48):
point two million followers probably would, and vents to all
those people about having to show flight receipts to the
principle like she's filing an insurance claim. She said, and
I quote, he's only missing five days of school. Yes,
I want him to learn how to read and write
and be in a classroom, but I haven't pulled him
out of school for a month. So here's the kicker.
Her followers overwhelmingly supported her comments like restricting when kids
(01:10):
can and can't go on a holiday's ridiculous and real
life experiences are way better than missing a week of
ABC's story was on news dot Com Dot a You
a few weeks back, as well as on our socials,
and it got us thinking, do we or don't we
take our kids out of school for a family holiday?
Is the bureaucracy right? Does every day at school count
(01:31):
or a parents within their rights to take a holiday
when it works for them. Life is pretty crazy after all.
So that's our conversation on today's podcast Stay with Us. Hello,
welcome to the Happy Families podcast. So glad you're here.
Thanks for choosing to listen with us. We are Justin
and Kylie Coulson with real parenting solutions apparently every day
(01:54):
on Australia's most downloaded Arny podcast. Kylie, you're ready for
this debate. You're ready to step into the hot seat play.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I have some really big opinions about this, but I
think it's worth looking at what the rules around this
are because they actually differ from state to state. In
New South Wales, travel is not underlined not a justified absence.
Schools must record it as unjustified period. Okay, Queensland and
(02:22):
Catholic systems consider holiday travel to be reasonable.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
In Victoria you need principal approval and a student learning
absence plan.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, because apparently this is a week I've read two
require strategic planning. Very good. Okay, so I.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Think this is really tricky. There's lots of paperwork. Parents
feel like they're back at school themselves, having to justify
their actions. Yeah, and get special permission. But my guess
is that school leaders and teachers alike don't really like
it either. They're in four seen policies sometimes that they
(03:01):
didn't create and may not even agree with.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yes, some might, but yes, yep, yep, fair enough.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And this is a system and that varies by post code.
It's inconsistent, right.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, So one state's one thing another and we've obviously
we've only done the Eastern states. Other states are part
of Australia. We recognize that. But we'll be here all day.
We go through all the rules everywhere. You know what
I think when I hear this, though, this is what
I don't think anyone talks about. You ask for permission,
you get to know from the school. My guess is
that most parents are probably going to go anyway, Like
you've paid for the airfares. Oh, you've got everything booked
(03:34):
and planned, you're still going to go on the holiday.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I don't think so. I think that it stops lots
of families from spending time together.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Okay, all right, we differ. Although I've never done a study,
and maybe you're right. Maybe a lot of people just say, no,
I don't want to have my child marketers having unauthorized absences. Okay.
I mean I'm the kind of person who'd say, I
know you don't want me to go, but I'm going anyway.
But we'll talk about that surely, because I think there's
a level of privilege and probably a level of arrogance
(04:02):
there as well, but we can cover that off shortly.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So I think it's important to make the case that
the Education Department would make why shouldn't kids miss school?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So, like I'm on the fence, there are some really
strong reasons that kids should be at school, and we
have to be.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
But again, we're not talking about taking them out for
a month or.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Six months week.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
We're talking about taking them out for a week so
they can spend time with families.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So I have a lot of sympathy. I have a
lot of sympathy for this position. I don't always agree
with it. Like I said, I'm getting splinters in my
bum from sitting on the fence, But I think that
I can have that desire to take the kids out
whenever I want because our kids have usually done pretty
well at school. I want to emphasize this isn't just
about Fox or whoever. It is missing some finger painting.
(04:49):
In terms of stats, we've gone from seventy five percent
of students attending ninety percent of school days in twenty
nineteen to just sixty percent attending ninety percent of school
days twenty twenty four. That is a massive drop.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I'm going to suggest that that has nothing to
do with family holidays and a lot more to do
with anxiety and depression.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I reckon that's a COVID one hundred percent potentially. Nevertheless,
we've got more school in attendance than ever before, dropping
from seventy five percent to sixty percent across that five
year period. With that many kids attending nine percent of school,
it's a big drop. Research also backs it up. So
a couple of years ago there was a big study
that was done and I've seen this in various other
(05:30):
smaller studies as well. Missing even one day of school,
whether it's per week or per fortnite or per term,
the research evidence shows that it does measurably affect academic outcomes.
Now we're talking about on average. I just need to
emphasize that is on average. But the bodies that promote this,
they're not just making it up. The data is there.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And if academic performance is our number one gauge for
success in life, then.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Great, But is it okay difficult?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Is that literally all we're striving for?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
The other thing that I was going to say, and
this is something where I'm going to really take the
side of the teachers for just a moment. I've spoken
to principles about this and teachers about it as well,
and what they'll often say is, it's not just that
the kid's going to have a holiday, or they're going
to have a sick day, or that they're going to
have that family event, or they're going to have the
mental health day or the birthday treat or whatever it is.
So they have a day of school. It's kind of
(06:23):
death by a thousand cuts for a classroom community, for
the continuity that's happening in the classroom because if you're
a teacher, you try to teach material, but you've got
these You've got kids away every day, and so you're
constantly having to teach kids who miss something, and it's
a new child every week, and so there's all this
back and forth. It's really hard to get your system
(06:44):
running well in the classroom when you have to keep
on going back and going over material and that sort
of thing. And the last point that I would make
is that, well.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That just sounds a bit like family life.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
If you ask me, you're sounding very unsympathetic.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I am not very sympathetic.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Schools have to draw the line somewhere as well. And
I just wonder when does school become optional? If everybody's
taking holiday whenever they want. It just makes things difficult
when you've got a systemized system, right, and that's what
we've got. We've got a standardized system that requires it. Now,
I'm not saying that I completely agree with it, but
these are the arguments that can be made from the
(07:18):
school's perspective, and I think that we should at least
have some compassionate sympathy for the teachers that are trying
to juggle it and recognize that this is a it's
a bit of a tricky quandary.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Okay, so you've got enough sympathy for both of us, right,
so we've given the Education department, we've played devil's advocate
for them. Be really great. If you could tell me
then why parents have an argument for taking their kids
away when it suits them. Yeah, okay, for me, it's
actually about costs and family priorities.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Right, So, well for us, because we've been through this.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yes, so we've got six children. We've actually had to
create a family tradition where we take one child away
at a time.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Once they're sixteen, because we actually.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Could never have afforded to take all six of them away.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I know some people say, well that's your fault, but
like when you have six kids, you do want to
be able to have a family holiday from time to time,
and it's expensive.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And I know lots of families that never go on
a holiday because they can't afford to do it in
the school holidays because everything is like double the price.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Well, school holiday accommodation can triple depending on where you're
going and whether it's peak season or off peak season.
Our flight price is definitely double working families should be
able to afford to have a family holiday. But the
reality is, I think that's a real challenge. And you
and I with our kids, we've spent years visiting family
in a stay both to see family but also to
say on.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
A couch, sleeping on the floor. Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm
sueezing into one bedroom.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
We still do. In fact, we've got a family holiday
coming up in a couple of weeks because we want
to get away. But it's like, oh my goodness, can
we really afford another family holiday where we can if
we sleep at at grandma's house. Grandma's house. Yeah, there
are family priorities, so aging grandparents sometimes it's not a luxury,
that's a necessity. Maybe there's deaths and marriages and those
(09:05):
kinds of things. I think it's also worth highlighting the
early year's reality. I don't think that a five year
old is missing anything that's particularly crucial. Kids are usually
going to learn more from travel than just sitting through
another a phonic session or another basic math session. And
when I look at what Sarah did, she pulled her
(09:27):
young child out so they could go and have a
family holiday in Fiji, for a bit. I think it's
okay whether it's family or relaxation, recreation. I also think
that there's a bit of hypocrisy from the education department
because they say that we can't waste a single day,
but last few days of term every term.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Not only the last few days, often it's the last
few weeks.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Well, as you move up to Christmas, it definitely is
the last couple of weeks at least pizza parties, movie marathons.
I'm not sure that every day matters, so it depends
on the day, and a lot of schools are scheduling
pupil free days, which they have the right to do,
but then they won't approve the student and family travel.
So yeah, I mean hardline attendants argument assumes that all
(10:11):
kids are struggling, that all families are a little bit flaky,
and school's always the highest value activity. You kind of
touched on that before. Some kids are thriving, some families
are intentional, and I again privileged position, but I put
us in that basket, and sometimes a week exploring a
new culture beats another week of a standardized curriculum. So
what do we do? We talked too long about this
already but we will talk it through after the break
(10:33):
in terms of making the decision that's right for your child,
the family, and taking into consideration all of those other factors.
That's coming up next. Okay, Kylie, Family holidays during school
term not a black and white issue, although the way
(10:54):
you're talking, maybe it's a bit more black and white
than I was suggesting.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I'm not suggesting it as black and white. I think
that most people have a level of intelligence isn't the
right word, but a level of awareness to recognize that
you're not going to pull your year twelve student out
right in the middle of exam prep or learning brand
new content that is going to impact their grades.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, this is about making intelligent judgment calls. And for
the most part, I mean, every parent wants their kids
to do well. They want their children that most parents
value education. Not all, but most parents value education and
are willing to encourage their children to do a great
job at school.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So when we've made some really big holiday decisions, we
have spoken with the school and we've said we're looking
at doing this and this is actually quite a big
deal for our family, and we're wondering if this is
going to have an impact on their learning, and teachers
have sometimes come back to us and said that that's
a really bad week. You can't do it then, But
(11:56):
they've also suggested that you've got a window. If you
kind of went from this date to this date, we
could probably we can work with it.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So that's something that I didn't have down in my
notes as I was thinking about this, and that is
just when you work with schools. Most of them, most educators,
most principles, are pretty reasonable about it, and most see
the value in, oh, this will be a culturally relevant
or valuable activity. There's worth in you doing this as
a family, and we get that sometimes it can be tricky.
We've never had a problem with this. That's why I
wanted to talk about it as well, because Sarah's experience
(12:25):
seems to be so strong.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Especially for a six year old.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, you've been rejected. Your request for leave has been
rejected for a six year old to do that. So
let's tap into a couple of things that I did
jot down Other than working with the school and being
productive and trying to make it work together. You've already
touched on this, but I want to be a little
bit clearer. I think timing matters. I don't think that
as a general rule it's useful to mess with the
(12:50):
first few weeks when kids are settling in.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I know several people who think that's the best time
to go because that's the cheapest. I would disagree. I
think the kids need stability, they need consistency, They need
to in the teacher needs to get to know them.
Missing those first couple of weeks of school, especially at
the start of the year.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Is a bit and cementing your place in the social circle.
It's a really big deal.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You've already touched on avoiding assessment periods and major projects.
I think that's important. Fair game though, is end of term. Yeah,
not a lot of learning going on there, Like fair enough.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Get out of there, I think so age.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I think age matters a lot here, So if you've
got young kids, you can probably get away with a
lot more play based learning to probably find it.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I know you're saying that, but I actually don't think
that's as black and white either. Really, I think for
our younger kids, when they're in you know, consistent schooling,
they actually need the consistency of schooling. It's really like
those formative years they actually need routine structure and consistency
(13:51):
around everything. So I think it really depends on the kids.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I reckon they're going to adapt pretty well. Yeah, fair call.
It depends on the child. So you've got to know
your child. If they're a high achiever, if they're going
to read books on the plane.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And I don't even think it's about that either though. Well,
I think it's more about, you know, are they a
kid that's really excited to be at school or are
they the kid that's constantly, you know, struggling to kind
of say goodbye each day. You're going to go back
to square one when you come back.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, I guess if you've got a really anxious kid
who's going to use any excuse to avoid school, it
might be a bit trickier. Although then again, I'm kind
of inclined to say, if've got a child who's struggling
that much, maybe having the break is going to give
them the rejuvenation and the refreshment that they need. I mean,
we're all over the place on this, seriously, I am. Anyway,
let's move to a big picture take home message. Submit
the paperwork. Depending on the school, it's probably going to
(14:40):
be denied communicate your reasoning respectfully. I think that's really important.
Work with the school in a collaborative way wherever you can.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What's the worst thing that's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
It's going to get marked unauthorized, and you're going going
to go on holidays anyway, and then you're going to
come back with a whole lot of photos and stories,
and the kids are going to be able to talk
about it, and you're going to be able to say, Yeah,
we got that time together. Will remember that for the
rest of our lives.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Did you have any employer look at your attendance record?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
No?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
No, Sometimes I think we get our niggas tied up
in twists for no reason at all.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, And I think the bigger picture is this, We're
not talking about chronic absenteism. We're not talking about families
who don't value education. We're saying, let's get families who
are making thoughtful, occasional decisions to prioritize a different kind
of learning, a different kind of connection. Like, the real
question isn't whether or not term time holidays should be allowed.
I think the real question is whether or not we
trust parents to make nuanced decisions about their own children's education,
(15:38):
or whether we've decided that schools no better than families
what the family needs. I think I've just made up
my mind, Like that's that's my take. That's my take.
What's your take? Are we raising a generation that thinks
rules of suggestions? Or are we finally recognizing that education
happens everywhere? Let us know at Facebook and Instagram. We've
got some social posts going up today to prompt the
(16:01):
question and get some feedback. Or you can email us
or send us a voice note to podcasts at happy
families dot com dot au. Just remembered, Kylie, I have
a confession. And November, last couple of weeks of the
school year, we're taking the kids away from my fiftieth
Should I write that letter?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Do you know how many hoops we had to jump
through to just get everybody on that plane?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Or we're going. We're going. I don't care what they say,
We're going. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin
Rowland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides additional support in terms
of research, admin and more. If you would like more
information about making your family happier, or just to join
in the conversation, check us out on our socials at
Facebook and Instagram, or visit happyfamilies dot com dot au
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