Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Every parent has copped it. The back chat. You get,
the eye rolls, you get, the anger, you get, the
kiie of the belligerence, the disrespect, the attitude. Sometimes your
child even refuses to comply with what you're asking, and
it leaves you, as a parent kind of questioning everything.
You want to be this kind considerate, autonomy, supportive parent,
(00:21):
and the kids give you back chat and you kind
of just think, no, no, that's it. You've just talked
back one time too many, and today today I'm going
to have it my way. And then we start with
the backchat towards their back chat. Ironically and interestingly, what
we call back chat might be one of the most
misunderstood aspects of child development, because how we respond to
(00:42):
our kids' big attitudes and backchat not only shapes what
happens next in the moment, but it also shapes our
entire relationship with our kids. Today. It's a practical and
focus deep dive into what really what really is going
on when kids push back. We'll look a bit about
into white traditional despond fails and explore some strategies plus
(01:04):
three really clear scripts to respond to backchat and build
cooperation rather than breaking connection. Stay with us. Hello, Welcome
to The Happy Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions, every day
on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and
(01:24):
Kylie Colson. If you're knew to the pod, we're so
glad to have you along. Hopefully you have been listening
during the parental Guidance episodes and now that that's over,
I went back to I guess Kylie regular programming. We
are so glad that you've chosen to be with us.
We hope that every day you hear something that helps
your family to be happier. Today, Kylie, it's about backchat.
I was just thinking as I was talking about the intro,
(01:45):
I don't remember ever hitting my parents with any backchat ever.
I think that I've wan you you're laughing. Have you
read ridden in your childhood? Completely? I was an angel.
Should we get my mum on the line, Mum, do
you ever remember me back chatting?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We might be here for a long time.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, But when I think about the backchat my mum
and dad. Mom particularly, she would just yell back at me.
She'd say, don't be so disrespectful, and every now and
again she'd have a full on Barney with me. I
remember she asked me to hang out the washing one
day and I was like, I've got a life too,
you know. And the lecture that I got. She just
stood in front of me, She's like, you've got a life.
(02:22):
You're the one I'm paying for this. I'm doing this,
I'm doing this, I'm running around here, and she just
rattled off thirty things that she's got going on in
her life. And she's like, and you think that I've
got time to hang out the washing when you're sitting
around doing nothing, because you've got a life. And so
I picked up the washing basket the washing work detreat.
Did you ever hit your parents with a bit of attitude,
a bit of backchat?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh yes, from time to time. I definitely did, but
it didn't end well for me. I was definitely physically
punished more times than not if I ever pushed back
too hard. And as a result, it left me feeling
this lack of disconnect with my own voice and trusting
(03:06):
that voice because it had never been respected.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh wow, that's deep here, I am going on about
mum ranting at me, and you've just hit us with
a big one straight up, and so let me let
me just get my head around that. So, what you're
saying is because when you would clap back at your
parents because you didn't like what they were asking of you,
or it felt unfair or you felt overwhelmed, they wouldn't
(03:31):
listen to your voice, and so you learned not to
trust your voice.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Gosh, that's great. I mean, it's not great that it happened,
but that's so eloquent the way you've said that.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, undoing that has taken years. Right, I'm almost fifty
years of age and only now.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Really, I love that you're uncomfortable, love that you're in
your mid forties and you keep on saying that you're
almost fifty years of age.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You're just around the corner, just around the corner. But
I was listening to what you were saying in the
beginning and just the acknowledgment that is, and we actually
we see our kids' backchat as so inconvenient, and I'm
so disrespectful and so disrespectful, and yet as you were talking,
(04:12):
as hard as it is, it's actually a gift, It's
an absolute gift off Our kids feel like they can
push back against us if they feel like their safety
in being able to share their viewpoint, no matter how
lacking in maturity.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
And I can just hear parents thinking, I really liked
what you said before, Kylie, but you've just said that
backs a gift, and they can take that gift and
go get a refund on it. I don't want that
gift in my house. Get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I guess, coming from where I've come from, one of
the things that I never wanted our children to experience
was to not be able to trust their own voice,
to not feel like the big people in the room
valued them and loved them enough to listen even when
it's hard. And as a result, we've tried to raise
kids who have been given a voice even when it's
(05:03):
been inconvenience.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So inconvenient.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
We've taught them to question, We've taught them to be curious.
We've taught them to actually push against authority for authority's sake,
like we've taught them so many beautiful, valuable lessons.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, the school teachers haven't appreciated that last.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
One, No, they haven't. But the conversations that have resulted
when we've been willing to get curious not furious in
those moments has been it has been a gift.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Okay. So I want to talk about three things around
how we're misunderstanding the quote unquote gift to use your
term of back chat, and then I want to go
through a couple of scripts that are going to be really,
really helpful when your child is pushing back. Okay, the
scripts are really what matter. All that's coming up in
(05:53):
just a sec on the Happy Families podcast. Okay, Kylie.
The first thing that I want to do is challenge
the assumption that backchat's problematic. You've already highlighted and challenged
it in your own way using the term it's a gift.
You and I did not confer about our ideas on
(06:14):
this topic, but we've both landed in the same place.
You're saying it's a gift. I'm saying, let's challenge the
assumption that's problematic. Definitely it can be disrespectful. Definitely it
can be, but the.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Disrespect comes from a lack of maturity and a lack
of understanding of how this works. Correct, So they haven't
learned how to use their voice.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I would prefer to reframe the word disrespectful as clumsy.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Now, sometimes the kids are being really argumentative, and they
really are pointed because they're passionate, right correct. But if
they knew how, if they knew how to respond in healthier,
more adaptive, collaborative ways, they would. But as you know,
high emotions equals low intelligence, kids respond to their big
emotions with a little bit of dysregulation. I look at
(06:55):
backchat as an opportunity to build trust in the relationship.
So my definition of trust, as you probably recall, trust
is believing that the other person is going to act
in your best interests. So when your child comes at
you with a whole lot of backchat, a whole lot
of you're the worst, it's unfair, you don't never listen
to me, that's literally an opportunity for us to build
(07:18):
trust with them. And I want to talk about three
ways we can do that.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So what's the first idea?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So the first one is something that I actually learned
from you years ago, and that is to listen for
the underlying need when our children are having big emotions,
when our children are having tanskerments, when our children are
giving us backchat, there's an unmet need there. Knowing what
we know about basic psychological needs, there's the relatedness need.
There's the competence need, and there's the autonomy need. It
could be any of those three. So we ask our
(07:46):
children to do something, whether it's getting the car, go
to bed, eat their dinner, pick up their towel, look
after their sister, walk the dog, pick up the dog
pill in the backyard, it doesn't matter what it is.
If our children are pushing back, it could be that
they feel a little bit lonely, they feel like they're disconnected,
they feel like the relationships just aren't strong. They're not
feeling seen, hurt and valued. So it could be a
(08:07):
relationship issue. My suggestion is, more often than not, it's
going to be a control issue. They want more autonomy
and we're constantly telling them what to do, and if
we gave them a little bit more choice around it. Hey, guys,
dishes need to be done. I'm heading out to take
care of this chore. So long as when I get back,
they're done. I don't mind when you do it. Now
(08:27):
they've got a sense of autonomy and you fist, pump cool. Okay,
it's up to you when it gets done. I'll be
back in twenty five minutes. I'll see you soon. So
it's that kind of autonomy thing. And sometimes they'll actually
be muttering under their breath or giving you a serve
because they don't know how to do it. They're actually
feel incompetent. They feel like cleaning up their bedroom right
now when they're only six years old and it's a
(08:49):
massive mess and hasn't been cleaned for three weeks. It's
just too big for them.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, it's overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It's overwhelmed. Yeah, that's right. So I actually think that
when kids aren't feeling heard, when they're feeling controlled, and
the feeling overwhelmed those basic psychological needs. This is what
happens when needs are thwarted and frustrated. They're not necessarily
being defiant, they're just struggling to figure out how to
(09:14):
do it. The second one, I think we've got to
examine the power dynamic. And what I mean by that
is so there's a word that I use all the
time on the podcast autonomy supportive, which is technically the
opposite of controlling. The fancy word for being controlling is heteronomous. Okay,
so if we're going to be heteronomous, what we're really
saying is I want you to defer to my authority.
(09:35):
I want you to listen to me because I am
the parent. And if we really explore power dynamics here,
when a child claps back, when a child resists, when
a child gives a whole lot of backchat, this is
a potential, depending on how emotional they are, potentially perfect
opportunity to step into a really simple three y's conversation.
Got a script about that coming up in just a
(09:56):
sec and it's like a ten second script. This is
a problem solving opportunity. It's not an opportunity to assert
your authority and go off your brain about how ungrateful
and entitled your kids are. It's a genuine chance to
examine the power dynamic and.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I just love that justinism of yours. Get curious, not furious,
because at the time, the natural instinct in us is
to come down hard.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I think my mum did the washing line, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And give them a lecture, or worse, we actually need
to get curious. What's number three?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
So the third one is that we need to model
the communication that we want to see. If we do
not like our child's disrespect, if we don't like the
way our child is pushing back at what we've asked.
Quite often, I hear parents do things like this, don't
you be so disrespectful to me? And they say to
the most disrespectful tone, or they say, you need to
(10:50):
get your emotions under control, so help me, they'll be trouble.
It's like, oh, my goodness. I mean, like, if you
want your kids to be regulated, you've got to be
regulated yourself. If you want your kids to be respectful,
you've got to be respectful yourself. Dysregulation in a parent
never led to a highly regulated child, or well sometimes
it can in your case, right, Like you just learned
(11:10):
to toe the line. But it didn't build the relationship.
In fact, it broke the relationship. It was really unhealthy.
It undermined trust, and you were simply complying because you
had to.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
So you cheose this at the beginning that you've got
some scripts that's going to help make this process easy
for parents.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, what have you got for us? I want to
go through them, and I think that they're really really
easy to implement. The first script is as simple as
saying something like, sometimes it feels like I'm your enemy,
doesn't it? And so what you're doing is you're actually
you're just saying how they feel. You're not telling that
they're right or wrong. You're just saying, sometimes it feels
like I'm against you all day every day, doesn't it.
(11:48):
Sometimes it feels like I just give your stuff to
push against and it never feels fair. You just say
it and your child goes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
It's exactly how I'm feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And as soon as they get that release where they
get to say yes, I do, you get to say, Okay, well,
why don't we have a chat about that and see
if we can come up with a solution. So it's
a validation statement. Another way of doing it is to
give your child in fantasy what they can't have in reality.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And so this screw you wish that I never asked
you to do the dishes, that you could just sit
in front of the TV all night.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Don't you just wish the dishes to wash themselves? Yeah,
wouldn't it be great if we had one of those houses?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Please? That does everything for you. I mean, they don't exist,
but wouldn't it be great if we had one of them?
And so giving your child in fantasy what they can't
have reality gives you a bit of a bit of
light humor an opportunity to have a break. And again
it's a wonderfully validating thing. And then as your child
releases the pressure and says, yes, I wish our house
would do that. You can sell you so do Why
but we've got this issue where our house is not
(12:49):
one of those houses. So what do you think we
should do instead? Incidentally, years ago, when we were renovating
our house, we went to one of those big fancy
appliance stores. Do you remember that cupboard that you could buy?
I can't remember so how much it was was like
fifteen thousand dollars or something, the ironing cupboard. Yet you
literally put the clothing on a coat, hangar, put it
in the cupboard, and the cupboard steams or irons or
(13:09):
the clothes for you. Yeah, can we just make them
affordable for everybody? I want one of those? Oh my goodness. Anyway,
So they're the first two scripts. I've just thought of another.
I know I've said three, but I just thought of
another one. We're nearly out of time, so I need
to be quick. Here's the second script, and this is
the three e'es script. Sounds like you're really frustrated about
what I just asked will you help me to see
(13:31):
what's bothering you and let's see if we can work
something out together. Now, I know that sounds a little
bit staged because I've got that as a written script,
But if you write that down and practice saying it,
it'll come out of your mouth really, really comfortably and
really helpfully right at the time that you need it.
It's a practice thing you're saying sounds like you're really
(13:53):
frustrated about what I just asked. Tell me what's bothering you?
I reckon, we can work out a better solution if
this doesn't work. So you see how I've just rephrased
that and it feels so much more real.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah. A few weeks ago I shared the experience of
working through our nighttime routine with Emily. We have been
having some big emotions around going to bed and just
being able to sit down with her and acknowledge that
she's feeling some frustration around it and can we talk
about what it might look like if we did things
her way. Yeah, she pretty much ticked all the boxes
(14:26):
of what I wanted, but it was her decision.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
She literally came up with everything that we wanted.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's the validations. Yeah, and all of a sudden, the
kids calm down and they start to solve problems with you,
which is really what discipline's about.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
And what's your last script?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
So the last one is one that I come down
a bit heavy on the kids with every now and again.
The soft ones, the validation ones, the giving in fantasy
ones just don't work. And so the slightly heavier script is,
I'm going to give you a chance to rethink what
you just said, and I want you to try again
in harmony with our values this time. So you're drawing
a really clear line in the sand. You're not getting
(15:02):
them in trouble, but you're just saying, I'm not going
to do any problem solving here. Don't have time for it.
But you need to work on that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
So, because we're dealing with girls in our home, I
kind of reframe that a little bit on my end
because I recognize that more times than not, they're not
able to shift very fast, and so I'll often just
give them an opportunity to go away and think about it,
and when they feel like they can come back and
talk to me in a way that I can hear, yeah,
that we can have this conversation.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Use that one a few times myself as well. Why
do you have to think about what you just said
and we will talk about it again in a half
an hour. Yeah, works, treat. Okay, we need to wrap
it up there. We really hope that these ideas have
been helpful. Here's the reality. You're not going to eliminate
pushback from your kids. What you do want to do, though,
is create a relationship that feels safe enough for them
(15:50):
so that they can express themselves and learn how to
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(16:12):
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