September 17, 2025 • 17 mins
“Mum, I’m bored!” Sound familiar?
In a world of endless screens and instant entertainment, boredom feels like a problem to fix. But what if it’s actually a hidden superpower? Dr Justin and Kylie Coulson unpack the science of boredom - why the right kind helps kids grow more creative, independent, and emotionally steady, and when it tips into trouble. Get quick, practical ideas to turn those “I’m bored!” moments into brain-boosting opportunities.
KEY POINTS
- Good vs. Bad Boredom: Occasional boredom in a stimulating environment builds creativity, resilience, and emotional regulation. Chronic boredom in an empty environment links to anxiety and risky behaviour.
- Screens & Overstimulation: Devices hijack attention, prevent true mental rest, and can increase long-term boredom.
- The Brain on Boredom: When attention fades, the Default Mode Network activates - fueling imagination, identity-building, and problem-solving.
- Practical Parenting: Don’t rush to entertain. Provide an “enriched environment” (books, art supplies, outdoor space) and let kids self-direct.
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE
“Boredom isn’t a failure of parenting - it’s a reset button for the brain.” —Dr Justin Coulson
RESOURCES MENTIONED
- Inside the bored brain: Unlocking the power of the default mode network | PsyPost
- Forget Overscheduling vs Bordeom - Self Direction is Key [Happy Families Article]
- The Case Against Boredom [Happy Families Article]
- Unhurrying Childhood [Happy Families Article]
- Fast-forward to boredom: How switching behavior on digital media makes people more bored | Journal of Experimental Psychology
- #1045 – The Art & Science of Family Meetings [Happy Families Podcast]
ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS
- Stop Fixing It: When kids complain, calmly acknowledge and leave space for them to decide what’s next.
- Prime the Environment: Keep open-ended materials - Lego, art supplies, books - visible and accessible.
- Embrace Downtime: Show your own healthy boredom habits: daydreaming, journaling, screen-free walks. Breath.
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Leave a voice memo here or email your questions/comments to podcasts@happyfamilies.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Today. This is the Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting Solutions
every single day. Mum, I'm bored. Dad, this is so boring.
Do your kids get bored? Is it okay for them
to be bored? What about those blogs that say that
children need to be bored? Boredom is an essential part
of creativity and it's good for their overall brains and
(00:28):
their health and all those kinds of things. Today a
doctor's Desk episode where we examine how much boredom is
too much? Is boredom at all? Okay? Are the blogger
is right or the mummy bloggers saying that we need
to help our kids to be bored more? Have we
gone too far with overstimulation. We'll answer all of those
questions and more so that we can work out how
(00:51):
to help our children's brains function best in an overstimulated world.
It's coming up next. Stay with us. So this is
the Happy Family's podcast, Repairing Solutions every single day. We
are justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie, I'm looking at you
right now and I can't help but say it. You're
coloring in your book. You're drawing patterns in designs. I've
(01:12):
done too long in intro and I get the feeling
that you're bored. It's a doctor's test, It's a doctor's
that's right, Okay. For anyone who's new to the podcast,
every week or they're about sometimes every couple of weeks,
some new research will come across my desk, or I'll
just decide that we're going to step into some research
and we call it the Doctor's Desk. It's where I
get to geek out about what the latest science is.
(01:32):
And Kylie's response, I would say in eighty percent of
our Doctor's Desk episodes is boring. Boring, Which is so
funny because when I talk to people, when I talk
to people, when I'm speaking at events and things, they
just say, oh, we love the Doctor's Desk episode.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, they love it because I've make fun of you.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, no, actually, nobody ever says that they love the
Doctor's Tesk episodes. I'm just but you believe me. I
should have just left it there, all right, So today today,
a Doctor's Desk episode about being bored. Is it good
for the kids or not? I cannot count the number
of mummy blogs and tiktoks that I've read about how
important is that kids have boredom, and so I figured,
(02:11):
let's just address this, let's deal with it once and
for all, because there's a lot of stuff out there
that's just plain wrong about kids being bored.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It's not very often you sit on the fence. So
I've got to ask, is it good or bad?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I love the way that you said that. So the
answer is yes, yes to what, Yes, it is good
or bad depending it just it depends. And this is
a standard psychology answer. I know I was about to say,
but it's not a cop out. There really is nuance here.
And this is why I get so irritated when I
read these blogs or see these tiktoks or reels about boredom,
because the answer is genuinely, it depends. Let me ask
(02:44):
you this question, what would you see as an argument
for boredom? Like when have you seen boredom being good
for our children? We've got a daughter who's homeschooled, and
there are times where she is legitimately there's nothing for
her to do. She's done all of her homeschool, she's
spent time with her friends, she's done her music stuff
like we're tapping out and she wants to be on
a screen and we're saying no, no, no, no, You've only got
(03:05):
an amount of time on a screen. So she's bored.
So what are the benefits to her being bored in
those circumstances? Because it drives us up the.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Wall, because it encourages her to tap into her interests. Okay,
because we live in a world that just everything set
our fingertips, we don't have to think, we don't have
to look very far at all to find something to
fill time. And yet when we allow our kids to
(03:35):
be bored, it actually helps them remember the things that
bring them the most joy.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah. Okay, so I mean you've just used that idea.
Bored him allows your time to think. Henry Ford said,
thinking is one of the hardest things there is to do,
which is why so few people engage in it. He's
obviously putting the entire population down when he says that,
but we actually don't like thinking very much. He is right,
and with access all of our screens, for example, that
that's a perfect opportunity for us to not have to think.
(04:04):
So boredom does do that. However, when boredom is occasional,
and when boredom occurs in a an enriching environment, an
environment where there are opportunities for children to do good things,
that's when it's good. But if they're in an impoverished
environment where there are no activities, there's no opportunity. They're
literally just bored and there are no toys, there are
(04:25):
no puzzles, there are no games, there are no trees
to climb, there are no scooters to ride or bikes
to play like. They've got nothing to do. There's no
park to play at. That is terribly bad for them,
especially if it's for a long period of time. So
enduring boredom bad associated with depression, associated with delinquency. Like
when I was a teenager and I was bored and
I didn't really look effectively at what else was in
(04:46):
my environment that I could do. I just went and
did things that I should not have done and said,
got my let's not talk about it was in my bedroom, Okay,
in case someone thinks that I was lighting fires down
in the local public park or anything in my.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Bedroom, closing cats between screens.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I don't talk about that. I only did it once.
It once. Gosh, we all do things that we regret.
Thank you for bringing that up, did you anyway? So yes,
boredom can be good so long as it's occasional, so
long as it's reasonably short lived ish, and so long
as the environment offers in richmond and activity possibilities.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So I think that that's key. It's about primers. So
emily being bored only works because I've worked out that
instead of having everything behind closed doors, because I like
things neat and tidy, I actually have gifted her my
outdoor space.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Our back deck looks I don't even know what. I
don't even know how to describe what it looks like.
It looks like an art expose her part. It's her
paige shed. Yeah, it's not a shed. We can't close
the doors, and we can't use the back deck because
but she cuts out cardboard. She's making our cardboard dragons.
She's doing some art, and she's so creative out there.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And she'll usually have a bit of a tantrum because
she's asked me to be on a screen and I've
said no. Within seconds of her realizing that I'm not
actually going to give in, she walks out that back
door because she can see the table through the window,
and she walks out there and she just starts creating and.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
There are days where she'll she'll be occupied for two
or three hours because that creativity kicks in and then
we can't get her away from that. I mean, it's beautiful.
That's the kind of bottom. That's good because it leads
to positive outcomes.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
But the only way it works is because there's primers. Yes,
you talk about the enriching environment. There has to be
books on hand. There has to, like you said, puzzles
like the lego. They've actually got to be out and
about they can see.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, yep, that's right. So that's that's the answer. Boorttom
is good and it's bad. It just depends. It depends
on what we're doing in the environment, how long it's
going for, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So it wouldn't be the doctor's desk without you geeking
out on some neuroscience stuff. So can you break it
down for us mums and dads who don't have a
psychology degree in a way that makes sense. What's actually
happening in the brain when our kids are bored?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Okay, So I'm going to make this really brief because.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Also it's not really just about kids, right, No, it's just.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
As well when we're bored as I actually kind of
get bored with brain stuff because it's not practical. It's
happening in the brain, but whether we or know it's
happening or not, it doesn't really change a lot of
what we do. I mean, anyway, there's an argument one
way or another. But basically, inside the brain there's what's
loosely called the attention network. So the attention network includes
executive control. It's that prefrontal cortex you zero on and
(07:47):
something you start to pay attention to it, you start
to think about it, you start to engage with it,
Your fronto parietal lobe kicks in, your speech and language
centers in your temporal lobe, and your paradal lobe also
kick in.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So which part of my brain's shutting off right now?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right now? Yeah, the parts of the brain that I'm
talking about are the parts of the brain that are
shutting off because your attention network is starting to dip.
As like you asked the question and then you fell asleep.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Okay, carry on.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So when our attention is high, those parts of the
brain are really really active. But when our attention is low,
there's another part of the brain that takes over. So
let's say I am droning on about neurochemistry and neuroanatomy,
and your frontal lobe and your parietal lobe and your
temporal lobe, they all start to dim. They all start
(08:35):
to go, oh, yeah, this is boring. And so the
blood flow and the oxygenation in your brain, it all
starts to flow elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
But I also feel deenergized, yeah, because it's putting that
part of your brain to sleep.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And what kicks in instead is this thing called the DMN.
I love talking about the DMN. This might be my
favorite brain region to talk about, especially when we're talking
about raising children. The DMN is at hand for or
abbreviated form of the default mode network. So if I'm
talking about neurochemistry and neurinatomy and you start falling asleep,
(09:10):
what's going on is your attention network becomes deactivated and
this internal network, this default your brain goes into default mode.
That's why it's called the default mode network or the DMN.
And when your brain is in default mode and the
DMN is active, the default mode network kicks in. You're
not really even aware your brain's going, but you know
that you know when you do have time to just
(09:30):
let your brain be and you start thinking about stuff.
I mean, you might be thinking about the washing wats
for dinner tonight, but you also might be thinking about
that conversation that you had with a friend a few
days ago that you haven't followed up on. Or you
start to do all the internal work. You're literally the
inner work, the identity building work, the values work, the
thinking about things that matter work. There's the technical term
(09:51):
for it is interroception, so you know approprioception. An occupational
therapist or somebody like that will talk to you about
how children need to have good understanding of where their
body is in space. That's appropriate reception, so that's looking
at where your body is and then looking outwards into space.
But interception, that's where your body is internal, like where
(10:11):
your mind is internally. That's stepping into this internal state.
And so boredom basically means that the DMN kicks off
and you start to think about stuff. This actually ties
in with your question about whether boredom is good or bad,
because when boredom is good, you go internally, So you
(10:32):
activation network, your tension network switches off, your DMN switches on,
and you go internally and you start thinking about stuff,
and maybe you do some journaling, or you resolve a problem,
a conflict and difficulty, you think about who you are.
That's really productive. But enduring, ongoing, sustained boredom leads to
(10:53):
the DMN network firing up in unhelpful ways, and it
can become overactive and we start to ruminate. We start
to get into anxiety and depression. That's why people who
are really struggling when they go to bed, the DM
men kicks in. That aft mode network kicks in, and
that's why they start to get scared or they start
to get anxious at bedtime because their brain is finally
getting an opportunity to go quiet and the DM men
(11:15):
kicks on. So that's the brain stuff, Kylie, I know
meant to be a quick answer. Thanks for staying awake.
Are you awake? Hello? Oh my goodness, so sorry. I
believe you just did that.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So tell me. Then. We had a conversation earlier about
screens are you and I yes, not being a useful
way to utilize your time to help shut your brain down,
and we diffit.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yes, So how does screens.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And boredom work?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay, So basically, screens are fast paced, they're stimulatory, so
they're really grab your attention. They fire up the cortex,
especially the prefront of cortex, and that pardal and the
temporal lobes, all those things that grab your attention and
keep you active and activated. That's what screens do. They're
masterfully created by the best brains in the business to
leverage every single psychological weakness. We have to keep us there.
(12:11):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But I don't have to do anything. I don't have
to I don't have to solve a problem. I don't
have to work out where I have to be from
a to be like.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But it's the attention. So it's costly for your nervous
system because it's sucking you in and it's absorbing your attention.
But it's not productive, it's not helpful. There's no nothing.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
But I don't want to be productive.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'm not talking about productive as in getting more things,
not talking about getting more things done, like let's let's
go and wipe down the kitchen benches and pick up
the towels. And that's not what I'm talking about here.
I'm talking about the brain actually having an opportunity to
reset that is productive. And you may feel like your
brain is resetting because you're watching a movie or vegging
out to some Instagram reels.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
No, but that's not what I Why I watch a screen.
I literally watch a screen, so I don't have to think.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Whether you want to be thinking or not. You are thinking,
your brain is going in store.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
But I'm not thinking about anything that I have to do.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
It's still taxing on your brain. So this is the issue.
It's still taxing your brain. It's called alostatic overload. And
alostatic overload.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Sorry, I'm going to get tired again.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Is increased is associated with increased neurological arousal and increased
neurological and it literally makes you more anxious. Apart from that,
here's something really fascinating. If you go in the opposite direction,
which can happen when you're on a screen. Okay, so
and you may be going there rather than the screen
stimulating you, it's actually.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Not how often have you put the TV on a
I fall.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Assleep, it's still not actually resetting your system. And this
is why, because you don't get to go into DMN activation.
There was a study that we talked about on the
Doctor's Desk a few months ago that showed that spending
more time on screens is associated with greater boredom, and
that I think is really talking about what you're highlighting here.
It's still not good for you. It's not recreating you.
(13:59):
I beg of you, my dear wife. Don't use the
screen as a I don't want to think about stuff thing.
Go out and lay on the grass, Go and touch
the grass, Go for a walk, lay on the bed
and do nothing. Pick up a book analog and just read.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Do you know who I'm married to?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I'm having an identity crisis all of a sudden. Is
that what's going on? All right? We need to wrap
this up. This is the doctor's desk is supposed to
be short and sweet, and we have overshot it. So
is there anything else you want to know before we
finish our conversation about boredom?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Well, it would be nice if we kind of had
some take homes. Okay, So if we recognize that there's
goodness that comes from our kids being brought and from
us being bored.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
All the right way, not bored on a screen.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
How do we deal with it? Because the last thing
we want I know I'm speaking for every month on
the planet, is I'm bored I'm bored. I don't want that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, okay, so this is the thing that I've really
got to emphasize here. The data shows that boredom is
associated with improvements and creativity. It does develop independence in thinking,
and it supports self esteem and emotional regulation. Like this
is really important because that unstructured time can help us
to sit with our feelings. That's important for us to
manage anxiety. If we're doing it right, we're not using
(15:14):
a screen, then we're having this. We're breaking this loop
of instant gratification that contributes to the compulsive device use
that we go for because we're bored, and it rebalances
our nervous system. So it helps us again to be
a lot less anxious. What do we do. I'm going
to share three ideas with you. You can tell me
whether you like them or not. First one, you don't
have to entertain your kids. You just need to make
(15:35):
sure that they're in an environment where being bored is
not going to be counterproductive. Okay, so get risk screens,
but make sure there are other things that the kids
can do. And then just say hey, if you're bored,
boring people get bored a little bit of tough love here.
I love you like crazy, but right now this is
boring time. So you can choose whatever you want to do,
but you're going to have to figure this one out
for yourself. You can journal, you can play Lego, you
(15:55):
can build the puzzle, you can play a game, you
can ride a bike, you can do any of these things,
but it's boredo time. So actually being okay with that
second thing, I think what we really want to do
is make sure that and I've kind of answered in
the first one anyway, is make sure that the children
do have solid environmental enrichment opportunities. So number one, it's
not your job. Number two to keep them attained all
(16:17):
the time. Number two, make sure that there is stuff
in the environment so that they can entertain themselves. And
number three, I just think, embrace it, connect with other people,
get analog, and let boredom do what it's supposed to do,
which is to reset your nervous system, reduce that allostatic overload,
break you out of that constant feedback loop where you're
constantly receiving that instant gratification and breathe, just breathe.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I feel a family meeting coming on.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Let's do it. Let's talk about bored them on Sunday.
Let's tell the kids are going to get bored. We
need to wrap this up. Thanks so much for listening
to the Doctor's Desk episode. We hope that it's answered
a few questions giving you some inspo. The Happy Family's
podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media and
Mimhammon's Traditional Research have me and other support. If you
would like to make your family happier, visit us for
(17:05):
more resources at happy families dot com dot au. We'll
see you tomorrow
Today. This is the Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting Solutions
every single day. Mum, I'm bored. Dad, this is so boring.
Do your kids get bored? Is it okay for them
to be bored? What about those blogs that say that
children need to be bored? Boredom is an essential part
of creativity and it's good for their overall brains and
(00:28):
their health and all those kinds of things. Today a
doctor's Desk episode where we examine how much boredom is
too much? Is boredom at all? Okay? Are the blogger
is right or the mummy bloggers saying that we need
to help our kids to be bored more? Have we
gone too far with overstimulation. We'll answer all of those
questions and more so that we can work out how
(00:51):
to help our children's brains function best in an overstimulated world.
It's coming up next. Stay with us. So this is
the Happy Family's podcast, Repairing Solutions every single day. We
are justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie, I'm looking at you
right now and I can't help but say it. You're
coloring in your book. You're drawing patterns in designs. I've
(01:12):
done too long in intro and I get the feeling
that you're bored. It's a doctor's test, It's a doctor's
that's right, Okay. For anyone who's new to the podcast,
every week or they're about sometimes every couple of weeks,
some new research will come across my desk, or I'll
just decide that we're going to step into some research
and we call it the Doctor's Desk. It's where I
get to geek out about what the latest science is.
(01:32):
And Kylie's response, I would say in eighty percent of
our Doctor's Desk episodes is boring. Boring, Which is so
funny because when I talk to people, when I talk
to people, when I'm speaking at events and things, they
just say, oh, we love the Doctor's Desk episode.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, they love it because I've make fun of you.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, no, actually, nobody ever says that they love the
Doctor's Tesk episodes. I'm just but you believe me. I
should have just left it there, all right, So today today,
a Doctor's Desk episode about being bored. Is it good
for the kids or not? I cannot count the number
of mummy blogs and tiktoks that I've read about how
important is that kids have boredom, and so I figured,
(02:11):
let's just address this, let's deal with it once and
for all, because there's a lot of stuff out there
that's just plain wrong about kids being bored.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It's not very often you sit on the fence. So
I've got to ask, is it good or bad?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I love the way that you said that. So the
answer is yes, yes to what, Yes, it is good
or bad depending it just it depends. And this is
a standard psychology answer. I know I was about to say,
but it's not a cop out. There really is nuance here.
And this is why I get so irritated when I
read these blogs or see these tiktoks or reels about boredom,
because the answer is genuinely, it depends. Let me ask
(02:44):
you this question, what would you see as an argument
for boredom? Like when have you seen boredom being good
for our children? We've got a daughter who's homeschooled, and
there are times where she is legitimately there's nothing for
her to do. She's done all of her homeschool, she's
spent time with her friends, she's done her music stuff
like we're tapping out and she wants to be on
a screen and we're saying no, no, no, no, You've only got
(03:05):
an amount of time on a screen. So she's bored.
So what are the benefits to her being bored in
those circumstances? Because it drives us up the.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Wall, because it encourages her to tap into her interests. Okay,
because we live in a world that just everything set
our fingertips, we don't have to think, we don't have
to look very far at all to find something to
fill time. And yet when we allow our kids to
(03:35):
be bored, it actually helps them remember the things that
bring them the most joy.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah. Okay, so I mean you've just used that idea.
Bored him allows your time to think. Henry Ford said,
thinking is one of the hardest things there is to do,
which is why so few people engage in it. He's
obviously putting the entire population down when he says that,
but we actually don't like thinking very much. He is right,
and with access all of our screens, for example, that
that's a perfect opportunity for us to not have to think.
(04:04):
So boredom does do that. However, when boredom is occasional,
and when boredom occurs in a an enriching environment, an
environment where there are opportunities for children to do good things,
that's when it's good. But if they're in an impoverished
environment where there are no activities, there's no opportunity. They're
literally just bored and there are no toys, there are
(04:25):
no puzzles, there are no games, there are no trees
to climb, there are no scooters to ride or bikes
to play like. They've got nothing to do. There's no
park to play at. That is terribly bad for them,
especially if it's for a long period of time. So
enduring boredom bad associated with depression, associated with delinquency. Like
when I was a teenager and I was bored and
I didn't really look effectively at what else was in
(04:46):
my environment that I could do. I just went and
did things that I should not have done and said,
got my let's not talk about it was in my bedroom, Okay,
in case someone thinks that I was lighting fires down
in the local public park or anything in my.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Bedroom, closing cats between screens.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I don't talk about that. I only did it once.
It once. Gosh, we all do things that we regret.
Thank you for bringing that up, did you anyway? So yes,
boredom can be good so long as it's occasional, so
long as it's reasonably short lived ish, and so long
as the environment offers in richmond and activity possibilities.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So I think that that's key. It's about primers. So
emily being bored only works because I've worked out that
instead of having everything behind closed doors, because I like
things neat and tidy, I actually have gifted her my
outdoor space.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Our back deck looks I don't even know what. I
don't even know how to describe what it looks like.
It looks like an art expose her part. It's her
paige shed. Yeah, it's not a shed. We can't close
the doors, and we can't use the back deck because
but she cuts out cardboard. She's making our cardboard dragons.
She's doing some art, and she's so creative out there.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And she'll usually have a bit of a tantrum because
she's asked me to be on a screen and I've
said no. Within seconds of her realizing that I'm not
actually going to give in, she walks out that back
door because she can see the table through the window,
and she walks out there and she just starts creating and.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
There are days where she'll she'll be occupied for two
or three hours because that creativity kicks in and then
we can't get her away from that. I mean, it's beautiful.
That's the kind of bottom. That's good because it leads
to positive outcomes.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
But the only way it works is because there's primers. Yes,
you talk about the enriching environment. There has to be
books on hand. There has to, like you said, puzzles
like the lego. They've actually got to be out and
about they can see.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, yep, that's right. So that's that's the answer. Boorttom
is good and it's bad. It just depends. It depends
on what we're doing in the environment, how long it's
going for, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
So it wouldn't be the doctor's desk without you geeking
out on some neuroscience stuff. So can you break it
down for us mums and dads who don't have a
psychology degree in a way that makes sense. What's actually
happening in the brain when our kids are bored?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Okay, So I'm going to make this really brief because.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Also it's not really just about kids, right, No, it's just.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
As well when we're bored as I actually kind of
get bored with brain stuff because it's not practical. It's
happening in the brain, but whether we or know it's
happening or not, it doesn't really change a lot of
what we do. I mean, anyway, there's an argument one
way or another. But basically, inside the brain there's what's
loosely called the attention network. So the attention network includes
executive control. It's that prefrontal cortex you zero on and
(07:47):
something you start to pay attention to it, you start
to think about it, you start to engage with it,
Your fronto parietal lobe kicks in, your speech and language
centers in your temporal lobe, and your paradal lobe also
kick in.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So which part of my brain's shutting off right now?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right now? Yeah, the parts of the brain that I'm
talking about are the parts of the brain that are
shutting off because your attention network is starting to dip.
As like you asked the question and then you fell asleep.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Okay, carry on.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So when our attention is high, those parts of the
brain are really really active. But when our attention is low,
there's another part of the brain that takes over. So
let's say I am droning on about neurochemistry and neuroanatomy,
and your frontal lobe and your parietal lobe and your
temporal lobe, they all start to dim. They all start
(08:35):
to go, oh, yeah, this is boring. And so the
blood flow and the oxygenation in your brain, it all
starts to flow elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
But I also feel deenergized, yeah, because it's putting that
part of your brain to sleep.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And what kicks in instead is this thing called the DMN.
I love talking about the DMN. This might be my
favorite brain region to talk about, especially when we're talking
about raising children. The DMN is at hand for or
abbreviated form of the default mode network. So if I'm
talking about neurochemistry and neurinatomy and you start falling asleep,
(09:10):
what's going on is your attention network becomes deactivated and
this internal network, this default your brain goes into default mode.
That's why it's called the default mode network or the DMN.
And when your brain is in default mode and the
DMN is active, the default mode network kicks in. You're
not really even aware your brain's going, but you know
that you know when you do have time to just
(09:30):
let your brain be and you start thinking about stuff.
I mean, you might be thinking about the washing wats
for dinner tonight, but you also might be thinking about
that conversation that you had with a friend a few
days ago that you haven't followed up on. Or you
start to do all the internal work. You're literally the
inner work, the identity building work, the values work, the
thinking about things that matter work. There's the technical term
(09:51):
for it is interroception, so you know approprioception. An occupational
therapist or somebody like that will talk to you about
how children need to have good understanding of where their
body is in space. That's appropriate reception, so that's looking
at where your body is and then looking outwards into space.
But interception, that's where your body is internal, like where
(10:11):
your mind is internally. That's stepping into this internal state.
And so boredom basically means that the DMN kicks off
and you start to think about stuff. This actually ties
in with your question about whether boredom is good or bad,
because when boredom is good, you go internally, So you
(10:32):
activation network, your tension network switches off, your DMN switches on,
and you go internally and you start thinking about stuff,
and maybe you do some journaling, or you resolve a problem,
a conflict and difficulty, you think about who you are.
That's really productive. But enduring, ongoing, sustained boredom leads to
(10:53):
the DMN network firing up in unhelpful ways, and it
can become overactive and we start to ruminate. We start
to get into anxiety and depression. That's why people who
are really struggling when they go to bed, the DM
men kicks in. That aft mode network kicks in, and
that's why they start to get scared or they start
to get anxious at bedtime because their brain is finally
getting an opportunity to go quiet and the DM men
(11:15):
kicks on. So that's the brain stuff, Kylie, I know
meant to be a quick answer. Thanks for staying awake.
Are you awake? Hello? Oh my goodness, so sorry. I
believe you just did that.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So tell me. Then. We had a conversation earlier about
screens are you and I yes, not being a useful
way to utilize your time to help shut your brain down,
and we diffit.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yes, So how does screens.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And boredom work?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay, So basically, screens are fast paced, they're stimulatory, so
they're really grab your attention. They fire up the cortex,
especially the prefront of cortex, and that pardal and the
temporal lobes, all those things that grab your attention and
keep you active and activated. That's what screens do. They're
masterfully created by the best brains in the business to
leverage every single psychological weakness. We have to keep us there.
(12:11):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But I don't have to do anything. I don't have
to I don't have to solve a problem. I don't
have to work out where I have to be from
a to be like.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But it's the attention. So it's costly for your nervous
system because it's sucking you in and it's absorbing your attention.
But it's not productive, it's not helpful. There's no nothing.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
But I don't want to be productive.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'm not talking about productive as in getting more things,
not talking about getting more things done, like let's let's
go and wipe down the kitchen benches and pick up
the towels. And that's not what I'm talking about here.
I'm talking about the brain actually having an opportunity to
reset that is productive. And you may feel like your
brain is resetting because you're watching a movie or vegging
out to some Instagram reels.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
No, but that's not what I Why I watch a screen.
I literally watch a screen, so I don't have to think.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Whether you want to be thinking or not. You are thinking,
your brain is going in store.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
But I'm not thinking about anything that I have to do.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
It's still taxing on your brain. So this is the issue.
It's still taxing your brain. It's called alostatic overload. And
alostatic overload.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Sorry, I'm going to get tired again.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Is increased is associated with increased neurological arousal and increased
neurological and it literally makes you more anxious. Apart from that,
here's something really fascinating. If you go in the opposite direction,
which can happen when you're on a screen. Okay, so
and you may be going there rather than the screen
stimulating you, it's actually.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Not how often have you put the TV on a
I fall.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Assleep, it's still not actually resetting your system. And this
is why, because you don't get to go into DMN activation.
There was a study that we talked about on the
Doctor's Desk a few months ago that showed that spending
more time on screens is associated with greater boredom, and
that I think is really talking about what you're highlighting here.
It's still not good for you. It's not recreating you.
(13:59):
I beg of you, my dear wife. Don't use the
screen as a I don't want to think about stuff thing.
Go out and lay on the grass, Go and touch
the grass, Go for a walk, lay on the bed
and do nothing. Pick up a book analog and just read.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Do you know who I'm married to?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I'm having an identity crisis all of a sudden. Is
that what's going on? All right? We need to wrap
this up. This is the doctor's desk is supposed to
be short and sweet, and we have overshot it. So
is there anything else you want to know before we
finish our conversation about boredom?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Well, it would be nice if we kind of had
some take homes. Okay, So if we recognize that there's
goodness that comes from our kids being brought and from
us being bored.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
All the right way, not bored on a screen.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
How do we deal with it? Because the last thing
we want I know I'm speaking for every month on
the planet, is I'm bored I'm bored. I don't want that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, okay, so this is the thing that I've really
got to emphasize here. The data shows that boredom is
associated with improvements and creativity. It does develop independence in thinking,
and it supports self esteem and emotional regulation. Like this
is really important because that unstructured time can help us
to sit with our feelings. That's important for us to
manage anxiety. If we're doing it right, we're not using
(15:14):
a screen, then we're having this. We're breaking this loop
of instant gratification that contributes to the compulsive device use
that we go for because we're bored, and it rebalances
our nervous system. So it helps us again to be
a lot less anxious. What do we do. I'm going
to share three ideas with you. You can tell me
whether you like them or not. First one, you don't
have to entertain your kids. You just need to make
(15:35):
sure that they're in an environment where being bored is
not going to be counterproductive. Okay, so get risk screens,
but make sure there are other things that the kids
can do. And then just say hey, if you're bored,
boring people get bored a little bit of tough love here.
I love you like crazy, but right now this is
boring time. So you can choose whatever you want to do,
but you're going to have to figure this one out
for yourself. You can journal, you can play Lego, you
(15:55):
can build the puzzle, you can play a game, you
can ride a bike, you can do any of these things,
but it's boredo time. So actually being okay with that
second thing, I think what we really want to do
is make sure that and I've kind of answered in
the first one anyway, is make sure that the children
do have solid environmental enrichment opportunities. So number one, it's
not your job. Number two to keep them attained all
(16:17):
the time. Number two, make sure that there is stuff
in the environment so that they can entertain themselves. And
number three, I just think, embrace it, connect with other people,
get analog, and let boredom do what it's supposed to do,
which is to reset your nervous system, reduce that allostatic overload,
break you out of that constant feedback loop where you're
constantly receiving that instant gratification and breathe, just breathe.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I feel a family meeting coming on.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Let's do it. Let's talk about bored them on Sunday.
Let's tell the kids are going to get bored. We
need to wrap this up. Thanks so much for listening
to the Doctor's Desk episode. We hope that it's answered
a few questions giving you some inspo. The Happy Family's
podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media and
Mimhammon's Traditional Research have me and other support. If you
would like to make your family happier, visit us for
(17:05):
more resources at happy families dot com dot au. We'll
see you tomorrow
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