August 19, 2025 • 21 mins
How do you get kids to love reading in a world of screens and short attention spans?
In this warm and practical conversation, Dr Justin Coulson sits down with one of Australia’s most beloved authors — and current Children’s Laureate — Sally Rippin. Together they explore why connection matters more than comprehension, how to support struggling readers, and the simple, joyful ways families can bring books back to life at home.
You’ll hear:
- Why “all kids can be readers” (even reluctant ones)
- How neuroscience is changing the way we teach reading
- The role of modelling and family rituals in raising readers
- Why choice and curiosity keep kids engaged
- The surprising power of reading together — at any age
QUOTE OF THE EPISODE
“There’s no better way to help kids fall in love with reading than for them to fall in love with you while you read together.” – Dr Justin Coulson
RESOURCES
- Sally Rippin, Australian Children’s Laureate
- Sally’s books: School of Monsters, Billy B. Brown, and more
- Interview with Sally: A Rippin Good Read
- Happy Families
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
One of Australia's most accomplished children's authors, joins me on
the podcast today to talk kids reading and also what
it means to be the Australian Children's Laureate. I'm so
excited to have somebody coming back to the podcast. Return guest,
repeat offender, Stay with us. Welcome to Australia's most downloaded
(00:29):
parenting podcast, The Happy Family's Podcast, where we give you
real parenting solutions every day. My name's doctor Justin Coulson.
We are joined today by Sally Rippon. Sally is one
of Australia's highest selling female authors ever. Has written over
one hundred books for children and young adults, so many
of them have won awards. You may be familiar with
a couple of her series. Several series written, but a
(00:51):
couple of the series that pretty much everyone has at
least a couple of these books on the bookshelf. There's
the School of Monsters series, which is the most recent one.
Billy B. Brown. My kids have still got their Billy B.
Brown books on their bookshelves. Prolific author, current Australian Children's
Laureate and over the last eighteen months, Sally has been
traveling locally and internationally to talk about the way that
(01:12):
we can share stories and support children who might struggle
to read. Sally, thanks for coming back to the Happy
Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
It's such a thrill. It's really exciting to be here.
And you know, we touch base at the beginning with
the Lariate ships, so it's really great to check in
with how it's or going.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So I'd never heard I'd heard of the word when
we first spoke, but I didn't really understand what the
Australian Children's Laureate was. For people who missed our conversation
twelve eighteen months ago, can you just give us the
quick background. What is the Australian Children's Laureate, why is
it you and what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So it's a position that is run by a board,
the Australian Children's Lauriate Foundation, and what they aim to
do is to choose the Children's auce at for a
period of a couple of years to represent the interests
of obviously children, but read parents, families and really to
choose a mission statement and to spend those two years
(02:06):
and really using that platform for good in a way.
So my mission statement is all kids can be readers,
And what I mean by that is that we are
always going to have children who struggle to engage with reading,
So we need to look at really imaginative and really
effective ways to ensure if our children don't acquire the
reading skills they need for life, how we can ensure
(02:27):
they can still access stories and have all the benefits
that we know stories and books can bring them.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Sally, I'm going to link in the podcast show notes
to our previous conversation for parents who want tips and
ideas on how they can help their children to fall
in love with reading. Rather than us repeating the same
interview again, I don't think that that's beneficial. People can
go and listen to it. It was genuinely one of
the best conversations that we've had on the pod about
getting kids to read. I really really loved it. What
(02:52):
I'd like to know is you've been doing this now
for eighteen months. The Children's Laureate role is a twenty
four month position. In terms of your goals helping all
children to become readers and engage in stories.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Was there anything.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Specific that you said, I've got to achieve this. This
is something that is tangible, it's measurable. I can hang
my hat on saying I did X, Y or Z
or did it remain a fairly nebulous mission statement. We
need to increase the conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I think a little bit of both. I think I
made a joke with the program manager of the lawriateship
that even if by the end of my tenure people
know we have a laureate and what a lauriate is okay, yes,
But I think also one of the biggest shifts we've
certainly seen, and this is something that parents behind the
scenes have been advocating for years, is the way that
we teach reading. And so this feels like a huge
(03:43):
shift in our understanding of the way that we acquire
reading skills. And there's been a parent support group that
I have been a part of since my younger son
was identified as being dyslexic or dyslexiccourer support group who
have been lobbying for years and years and years to
effectively change the way we teach reading. So we know
now through neuroscience, the way that our brains are actually
(04:04):
rewired to become proficient readers. So we're born with the
capacity to be able to speak, we hear our parents
talking through the mother's belly, and so we're born with
oral language, but we're not born with the capacity to read.
So now that this is recognized in science, we also
can use science to assess which is the best way
to teach reading. And people use the word phonics really loosely.
(04:25):
They kind of throw that around, and that had been
kind of a little bit of a battering ram. But
there are many things that we can do as parents
to support the way that we're going to be taught
to read.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Let'say, I've got a child who does like to read,
but they only read the one thing. They only read
the one genre. They only read graphic novels, or they
only read books about dragons, or they only read fairy books,
or I don't know, whatever the thing is. And as
a parent, I want my children to expand their world.
I want them to think differently. I want them to
recognize that there are so many other genres that could
(04:54):
be enlightening and delightful, and there's so much out there.
How would you encourage a parent to step into that
conversation or do you think that it's not a conversation
that needs to be had.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Look, I think every conversation is up for having and
I think I think children, like adults, don't like to
be told what to do, and so we like to
feel that we have agency, and so I think choice
can be a really important part of children still being
interested in engage with reading. And so it might be
a compromise, you know, maybe you can go to the library,
or if you can afford to go to bookstore regularly,
(05:29):
maybe the child chooses their own reading material and potentially
you could choose one that you could read together. I
think it's really important that kids see adults reading, because
we don't want to see reading as a punishment. Go
to your room and do your readers the best way
to turn a child off reading. So boys seeing their
dad's reading is really really important. And if their dads
are only reading, you know, the newspaper of the sports pages,
(05:50):
then why would a boy want to pick up you know,
pride and prejudice. So we also going to model the
kind of readers we want our children to be. And
I think also there are other ways just to be
interested in what your children are interested in, and you
might surprise yourself. You know, my youngest son, even though
he wasn't a great reader. He went through this stage
of listening to this horrendous hip hop music, and I
(06:11):
could have fought against that, but I chose to use
it as a conversation starter. So I'd let him choose
the music in the car and I'd say, that's really
interesting about the way they talk about women, and how
do you feel about that, and then we begin a
conversation around that. So I think books can be the
same thing. If you're looking at the books that your
children are reading, are being interested and engaged, you're likely
to find out what it is about that book that
(06:33):
entices them, and that could be great conversations to have
around that. Maybe they want to talk about the hero
in the story, maybe they want to talk about the sidekick.
And it's a really interesting way in to where your
child is at.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm listening to you say that, and there are four
things that I've noted as you're talking that I want
to pull out of it, just for emphasis or to
probe a little deeper. The first thing is together. All
the best experiences that we have with our kids when
it comes to read, tend to be together, reading with
your child on your lap when they're young, or laying
(07:06):
on the floor beside them while they're in bed and reading.
I remember reading The Princess Bride by I think it's
William Goldman to my kids, and I did exactly what
the grandpa does in the movies. I skipped over the
boring bits, because he actually includes some boring bits, even
though the entire things of work of fiction. I skipped
over the boring bits that he put in the book
and just read this book and I still just the
love of what a book can give you. The kids
(07:29):
actually said The Princess Bride that sounds like the worst
book ever, like they really didn't want to read it.
And then as we would get to this twist and
this turn and this plot challenge, and I would pause
and I'd just say, oh, I guess we have to
finish it right there, and they would scream, no more page,
(07:50):
one more chapter. And you know you've got them right
when you stop at the climactic moment and you refuse
to read, and because like they're dying for it. The
way that we can build suspense when I'm reading, there's
a book series that's by Obert Sky, It's called the
leven Thumps series, and putting on the voices so a
(08:12):
character called Geth. He's Sean Connery. Basically in my head
show Geth sweeks like this. And there's Clover, who's this
little sicker fant who is like a catlike creature from
another world. And Clover speaks in this really high kind
of I don't know, And the kids they fall in
love with the characters, they fall in love with the voices,
and it becomes this delightful bonding time. You've highlighted the
(08:35):
importance of together and I don't know that there's a
more powerful and profound way to help kids to fall
in love with reading. Why because they fall in love
with you. I wonder if you have any reactions to that.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Oh my heart just sings when you say all of that,
because I think we were chatting before about how addicta's
screens are, and they are they're created to make all
of us addicted. I had to consciously put my phone
to one side if I want to be able to read.
But phone is never going to give you the connection
like that. I mean, all people crave to be seen,
(09:06):
to have someone fully present with them, it doesn't matter
how old we are, and to be able to do
that with a child, there's nothing more magical, and so
there's actually no competition when if you're really serious about it,
if you can put down all your distractions and be
so present with a child, even just for a short
moment each day, what a beautiful thing that a book offers.
(09:26):
And of course there are many people who may find
that challenging. They may not be proficient readers themselves, they
may be just exhausted at the end of the day.
So listen to an audiobook together and talk about it.
You know, there are so many sophisticated stories that you
can share with your children that a child appropriate. You know,
they don't have to be some of the stuff that
you watch together on television. You might kind of hesitate
(09:48):
about bringing a small child into that space, but you
can have complex ideas you can talk about really branch
into emotional awareness by reading books together or listening to audiobooks.
And like you say, it's the greatest connection you can
have with the chart and it can take practice. It
doesn't come easily for everybody, but it's so well.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So we are joined today by Sally Rippon, prolific author,
current Australian Children's Laureate, and over the last eighteen months
Sally has been traveling locally and internationally to talk about
the way that we can share stories and support children
(10:29):
who might struggle to read. Sally, you do these interviews
all the time, day in, day out. You're talking to
people about the same stuff all the time, getting kids
to love reading, and trying to achieve your overarching mission
of helping books to be part of children's lives. Because
you do so many of these interviews, I have a
question that's going to be quite different, and it's putting
a lot of pressure on you as I asked this question,
(10:51):
So I apologize for this, But because you get so
many of the same questions, I'd love to know what's
the best question that you've been asked recently. What's a
question that you've pulled and gone wow. I wish more
people ask questions like that.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh, you have put me on the spot, even though
you warned me you would ask this one. I think
questions can be really confronting, and this is something I
really learned raising teenagers as well. Is that just to
put someone on the spot and ask a teenager a
question I always find really challenging. Your mind goes blank
and you can't come up with anything funny or or smart.
(11:24):
So I think for me, I have found the most
interesting conversations have come from what we're doing right now.
I'm really interested in who you are and how you
think and what your experiences are, and in turn, then
it prompts me to exchange some of my experiences. And
I found that really with my three boys as they
were growing up, particularly as teenagers, that I think people
(11:46):
forget to listen to teenagers, and I certainly would often
make those mistakes, and teenage boys can be really hard
to get out of their shelves, and so I would
find ways to incidentally have conversations and connections with them.
So you know, the parallel sitting in a car having conversation,
listening to music, going on walks together is so much
(12:06):
less confronting than just sitting across the table from them
and saying, how is your day? Then they don't know
what to so probably maybe what I'll do by answering
that question is give an example of a teenager who
I felt answered the question of all the adults in
the room. And so I was lucky enough to be
asked to attend a PD for teachers out at a
(12:27):
massive school and vulnerable talking to them about how we
can best support neurodivision kids in the classroom. And before me,
who was supposedly the expert because I've written a book
for parents and supporting eurodivision kids, they asked a year
eight girl to get up and do a PowerPoint and
talk about what it was like to have ADHD and
go through school. And she prepared this beautiful PowerPoint and
she talked about the challenges but some of the cool
(12:49):
things about having ADHD too, And when it was time
for me to stand up, I was like, my job
here is done. Pretty much. She is telling you everything
you need. You don't need to hear it from me.
You actually just needed to hear it from your young people.
Ask them what is it like in the classroom for you?
Is I to challenge what are the challenges? And kids
can have the most amazing responses. And that's how I
(13:11):
try to stay open and keep learning. Is actually turning
around on other people and asking them, you know, what
are you thinking? Especially young people. Young people are so
happy if you asked them that question.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yes, Sally, another one. I love the experience, but number two,
my summary of what you've said when I'm asking you
one of the best questions you've been asked recently is
is that it's not really about the questions. It's about
the dialogue. It's about the insight that comes as we
bounce ideas off each other, which means that if we
want our kids to engage with us and converse with
us and open up books and read them, it really
(13:41):
is about somehow, as you said, bringing them out of
their shells and helping them to be open and curious
and consider that there might be a worldview or an
opportunity to step into empathy that they hadn't considered before.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Absolutely, and for us to model that we need to
be open and curious as to how they see the
world and how they're going.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
With Yeah, Yeah, beautiful. Modeling seems to be coming up
over and over and again in this conversation. In your
last answer, you referred to curiosity and your love of
asking questions. This is an unusual thing for the guy
who's doing the interview to do, but you're obviously a
prolific author, You're right for children all the time, and
(14:20):
you think deeply about a lot of things. I've got
a PhD in psychology and we share a lot of
mixed interests. I'm wondering if you have anything that you're
curious about that you like, let's turn the tables. Is
there something that you would ask me.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I love that. I think that's such fun.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I've always a bit nervous about it. It's like, am I
putting this person on the spot. It's am I making
this conversation about me? Is this too narcissistic? An ego oriented?
It is not meant to be. It's just I think
it's about the dialogue.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Right that. I'm really curious in how you find boys
are managing in the world. I know you're writing and
researching a book about boys, but you also were a boy,
and so I know there was some really interesting conversations
(15:07):
that you started around adolescents the series that I think
a lot of people have seen, And I wonder how
you feel like boys are fairing and doing the research
and studying this book. I brought up three boys, but
my youngest is now twenty two. I think it's hard
for them. And even my kids were adolescents.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So first of all, adolescents that the Netflix series turned
the world upside down, and I did write a lot
about it. One thing that I didn't do and the
series have been criticized quite a lot. Is statistically it's
quite unrealistic that the events portrayed in the series would
actually occur, and I think that that's definitely worth noting.
But those people who are getting caught up on that
are missing the broader point, and that is that there
(15:46):
is a really big challenge for our boys today in
terms of how they are relating to one another, how
they're relating to girls, and how they're relating to themselves,
their quest for identity. It's really a really tough time.
The short version is, I don't think that boys on
the whole are doing nearly as well. I've got a
whole lot of stats in my new book about how
(16:07):
for every ten girls who finish high school, only eight
boys do. For every ten girls that go to university,
only seven boys do. For every girl who graduate university,
the only six point seven boys do, and so on.
And then when we look at the negative behaviors being
involved in fights or taking drugs or blah blah blah,
as boys get older, for every ten girls who are
doing it, there are multiples of that in the boy
(16:29):
side of things that are doing it. The boy side
of the equation. So to me, that's a really big
challenge that we're facing. In Harry Potter and the Curse Child,
the Harry Potter book that was not written by JK.
Rowling and the one that went on to become the
stage play, the authors have Draco Malfoy and Harry as
adults having a conversation about their teenage children. Draco has
(16:53):
this beautiful, beautiful line that he delivers to Harry as
they're having this really challenged discussion. Raco says, people say
that parenting is the toughest job there is. It's not
growing up is, And I just there's so much empathy
in that. There's so much beauty in that really simple observation.
(17:17):
And I think about your question, and I asked myself,
born in nineteen seventy five, I'm fifty this year. Would
I rather be a child of the seventies and eighties
or would I rather be a child today? And I
don't have to think about it for a millisecond. I
know the answer. And writing this book about boys has
been a really profound experience for me, especially as a
(17:41):
father of girls, to step into the world of boys,
to look at the things that they're doing to demonstrate
that their masculinity isn't precarious, The way they're trying to
either embrace or fight against manbox beliefs, the way that
they police one another with this boy code, the impact,
the overarch devastating impact of pornography in their lives, and
(18:06):
so much more. It's really tough. I mean, you've raised
three boys. When you look at what they've been through,
would you rather be a girl or a boy being
raised today?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I one hundred percent agree with you. I think it's
I think what women have had as an umbrella and
as a model is feminism, so we have something to
work towards. Yes, what men have been living under, young
men is this umbrella of toxic masculinity. So they're saying, well,
what who do I model myself on? You know, what
(18:39):
do I aspire to? Just identifying as a straight white
man can actually make them feel bad about themselves because
of how that term is used today. And I think
it's really sad that boys are finding it so hard
to get the support they need because we have got
so good at knowing how to support girls, at giving
them go to work towards. And I think there is
(19:02):
an empty space now that boys don't know how to
step into. But I also just want to jump in
and say how much I love it that the answer
to your questions came from what is essentially a children's book,
and I just think, here, I guess here's the problem solving.
Is that if we do engage with the child's world,
(19:24):
if we do access what children are going through, and
we can do this through watching things with them, talking
about the books they're reading or the music they're listening to,
whether you like it or not, there is a portal
there that we can not only access our own childhoods
and remember how we felt growing up, but hopefully from
that space connect with our own children, because yeah, it's
(19:44):
really hard and it's very different when we're growing up.
So if we're not tuning into that, we're going to
miss opportunities to connect with them. And that was my
takeaway from adolescents that they lost connection with their son.
You know, whether or not those things he did could
have really happened. For me, The key was as soon
as you lose connection with your child, someone else would
jump in and make that connection with them, and that's
(20:05):
where the danger starts. Believe.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
So my definition of connection is when you feel seen,
heard and valued.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, that your parent is really present there for you
and curious to how you feel.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And I'm not sure that there are too many better
ways to create connection, to create a feeling of being seen,
heard and valued than to sit down and read a
book together.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Absolutely, that's the takeaway for today.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I reckon it's a pretty tidy way to finish this conversation, unplanned, unscripted.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
But I like it so good.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Sally Rippin The Australian Children's Laureate eighteen months into a
twenty four month stint, and again, such a delight to
talk with you. I love our conversations every time. Thank
you for being with me on The Happy Family's podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's always much pleasure. And I'm so glad that it
remained open and curious, because I think that's how the
best conversations are.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, thank you so much. We will link to some
notes about the Australian Children's Laureate in the show notes,
as well as a couple of more popular series of
Sally's In case you have young kids who would love
to or who you would love to have those mind
expanding experiences, check the show notes for that. The Happy
Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland for Bridge Media.
Mim Hammonds looks after research, admin and resources. If you
(21:12):
would like more information about making your family happier, visit
us at happy families dot com, dot a
One of Australia's most accomplished children's authors, joins me on
the podcast today to talk kids reading and also what
it means to be the Australian Children's Laureate. I'm so
excited to have somebody coming back to the podcast. Return guest,
repeat offender, Stay with us. Welcome to Australia's most downloaded
(00:29):
parenting podcast, The Happy Family's Podcast, where we give you
real parenting solutions every day. My name's doctor Justin Coulson.
We are joined today by Sally Rippon. Sally is one
of Australia's highest selling female authors ever. Has written over
one hundred books for children and young adults, so many
of them have won awards. You may be familiar with
a couple of her series. Several series written, but a
(00:51):
couple of the series that pretty much everyone has at
least a couple of these books on the bookshelf. There's
the School of Monsters series, which is the most recent one.
Billy B. Brown. My kids have still got their Billy B.
Brown books on their bookshelves. Prolific author, current Australian Children's
Laureate and over the last eighteen months, Sally has been
traveling locally and internationally to talk about the way that
(01:12):
we can share stories and support children who might struggle
to read. Sally, thanks for coming back to the Happy
Families podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
It's such a thrill. It's really exciting to be here.
And you know, we touch base at the beginning with
the Lariate ships, so it's really great to check in
with how it's or going.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So I'd never heard I'd heard of the word when
we first spoke, but I didn't really understand what the
Australian Children's Laureate was. For people who missed our conversation
twelve eighteen months ago, can you just give us the
quick background. What is the Australian Children's Laureate, why is
it you and what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So it's a position that is run by a board,
the Australian Children's Lauriate Foundation, and what they aim to
do is to choose the Children's auce at for a
period of a couple of years to represent the interests
of obviously children, but read parents, families and really to
choose a mission statement and to spend those two years
(02:06):
and really using that platform for good in a way.
So my mission statement is all kids can be readers,
And what I mean by that is that we are
always going to have children who struggle to engage with reading,
So we need to look at really imaginative and really
effective ways to ensure if our children don't acquire the
reading skills they need for life, how we can ensure
(02:27):
they can still access stories and have all the benefits
that we know stories and books can bring them.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Sally, I'm going to link in the podcast show notes
to our previous conversation for parents who want tips and
ideas on how they can help their children to fall
in love with reading. Rather than us repeating the same
interview again, I don't think that that's beneficial. People can
go and listen to it. It was genuinely one of
the best conversations that we've had on the pod about
getting kids to read. I really really loved it. What
(02:52):
I'd like to know is you've been doing this now
for eighteen months. The Children's Laureate role is a twenty
four month position. In terms of your goals helping all
children to become readers and engage in stories.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Was there anything.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Specific that you said, I've got to achieve this. This
is something that is tangible, it's measurable. I can hang
my hat on saying I did X, Y or Z
or did it remain a fairly nebulous mission statement. We
need to increase the conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I think a little bit of both. I think I
made a joke with the program manager of the lawriateship
that even if by the end of my tenure people
know we have a laureate and what a lauriate is okay, yes,
But I think also one of the biggest shifts we've
certainly seen, and this is something that parents behind the
scenes have been advocating for years, is the way that
we teach reading. And so this feels like a huge
(03:43):
shift in our understanding of the way that we acquire
reading skills. And there's been a parent support group that
I have been a part of since my younger son
was identified as being dyslexic or dyslexiccourer support group who
have been lobbying for years and years and years to
effectively change the way we teach reading. So we know
now through neuroscience, the way that our brains are actually
(04:04):
rewired to become proficient readers. So we're born with the
capacity to be able to speak, we hear our parents
talking through the mother's belly, and so we're born with
oral language, but we're not born with the capacity to read.
So now that this is recognized in science, we also
can use science to assess which is the best way
to teach reading. And people use the word phonics really loosely.
(04:25):
They kind of throw that around, and that had been
kind of a little bit of a battering ram. But
there are many things that we can do as parents
to support the way that we're going to be taught
to read.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Let'say, I've got a child who does like to read,
but they only read the one thing. They only read
the one genre. They only read graphic novels, or they
only read books about dragons, or they only read fairy books,
or I don't know, whatever the thing is. And as
a parent, I want my children to expand their world.
I want them to think differently. I want them to
recognize that there are so many other genres that could
(04:54):
be enlightening and delightful, and there's so much out there.
How would you encourage a parent to step into that
conversation or do you think that it's not a conversation
that needs to be had.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Look, I think every conversation is up for having and
I think I think children, like adults, don't like to
be told what to do, and so we like to
feel that we have agency, and so I think choice
can be a really important part of children still being
interested in engage with reading. And so it might be
a compromise, you know, maybe you can go to the library,
or if you can afford to go to bookstore regularly,
(05:29):
maybe the child chooses their own reading material and potentially
you could choose one that you could read together. I
think it's really important that kids see adults reading, because
we don't want to see reading as a punishment. Go
to your room and do your readers the best way
to turn a child off reading. So boys seeing their
dad's reading is really really important. And if their dads
are only reading, you know, the newspaper of the sports pages,
(05:50):
then why would a boy want to pick up you know,
pride and prejudice. So we also going to model the
kind of readers we want our children to be. And
I think also there are other ways just to be
interested in what your children are interested in, and you
might surprise yourself. You know, my youngest son, even though
he wasn't a great reader. He went through this stage
of listening to this horrendous hip hop music, and I
(06:11):
could have fought against that, but I chose to use
it as a conversation starter. So I'd let him choose
the music in the car and I'd say, that's really
interesting about the way they talk about women, and how
do you feel about that, and then we begin a
conversation around that. So I think books can be the
same thing. If you're looking at the books that your
children are reading, are being interested and engaged, you're likely
to find out what it is about that book that
(06:33):
entices them, and that could be great conversations to have
around that. Maybe they want to talk about the hero
in the story, maybe they want to talk about the sidekick.
And it's a really interesting way in to where your
child is at.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm listening to you say that, and there are four
things that I've noted as you're talking that I want
to pull out of it, just for emphasis or to
probe a little deeper. The first thing is together. All
the best experiences that we have with our kids when
it comes to read, tend to be together, reading with
your child on your lap when they're young, or laying
(07:06):
on the floor beside them while they're in bed and reading.
I remember reading The Princess Bride by I think it's
William Goldman to my kids, and I did exactly what
the grandpa does in the movies. I skipped over the
boring bits, because he actually includes some boring bits, even
though the entire things of work of fiction. I skipped
over the boring bits that he put in the book
and just read this book and I still just the
love of what a book can give you. The kids
(07:29):
actually said The Princess Bride that sounds like the worst
book ever, like they really didn't want to read it.
And then as we would get to this twist and
this turn and this plot challenge, and I would pause
and I'd just say, oh, I guess we have to
finish it right there, and they would scream, no more page,
(07:50):
one more chapter. And you know you've got them right
when you stop at the climactic moment and you refuse
to read, and because like they're dying for it. The
way that we can build suspense when I'm reading, there's
a book series that's by Obert Sky, It's called the
leven Thumps series, and putting on the voices so a
(08:12):
character called Geth. He's Sean Connery. Basically in my head
show Geth sweeks like this. And there's Clover, who's this
little sicker fant who is like a catlike creature from
another world. And Clover speaks in this really high kind
of I don't know, And the kids they fall in
love with the characters, they fall in love with the voices,
and it becomes this delightful bonding time. You've highlighted the
(08:35):
importance of together and I don't know that there's a
more powerful and profound way to help kids to fall
in love with reading. Why because they fall in love
with you. I wonder if you have any reactions to that.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Oh my heart just sings when you say all of that,
because I think we were chatting before about how addicta's
screens are, and they are they're created to make all
of us addicted. I had to consciously put my phone
to one side if I want to be able to read.
But phone is never going to give you the connection
like that. I mean, all people crave to be seen,
(09:06):
to have someone fully present with them, it doesn't matter
how old we are, and to be able to do
that with a child, there's nothing more magical, and so
there's actually no competition when if you're really serious about it,
if you can put down all your distractions and be
so present with a child, even just for a short
moment each day, what a beautiful thing that a book offers.
(09:26):
And of course there are many people who may find
that challenging. They may not be proficient readers themselves, they
may be just exhausted at the end of the day.
So listen to an audiobook together and talk about it.
You know, there are so many sophisticated stories that you
can share with your children that a child appropriate. You know,
they don't have to be some of the stuff that
you watch together on television. You might kind of hesitate
(09:48):
about bringing a small child into that space, but you
can have complex ideas you can talk about really branch
into emotional awareness by reading books together or listening to audiobooks.
And like you say, it's the greatest connection you can
have with the chart and it can take practice. It
doesn't come easily for everybody, but it's so well.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So we are joined today by Sally Rippon, prolific author,
current Australian Children's Laureate, and over the last eighteen months
Sally has been traveling locally and internationally to talk about
the way that we can share stories and support children
(10:29):
who might struggle to read. Sally, you do these interviews
all the time, day in, day out. You're talking to
people about the same stuff all the time, getting kids
to love reading, and trying to achieve your overarching mission
of helping books to be part of children's lives. Because
you do so many of these interviews, I have a
question that's going to be quite different, and it's putting
a lot of pressure on you as I asked this question,
(10:51):
So I apologize for this, But because you get so
many of the same questions, I'd love to know what's
the best question that you've been asked recently. What's a
question that you've pulled and gone wow. I wish more
people ask questions like that.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh, you have put me on the spot, even though
you warned me you would ask this one. I think
questions can be really confronting, and this is something I
really learned raising teenagers as well. Is that just to
put someone on the spot and ask a teenager a
question I always find really challenging. Your mind goes blank
and you can't come up with anything funny or or smart.
(11:24):
So I think for me, I have found the most
interesting conversations have come from what we're doing right now.
I'm really interested in who you are and how you
think and what your experiences are, and in turn, then
it prompts me to exchange some of my experiences. And
I found that really with my three boys as they
were growing up, particularly as teenagers, that I think people
(11:46):
forget to listen to teenagers, and I certainly would often
make those mistakes, and teenage boys can be really hard
to get out of their shelves, and so I would
find ways to incidentally have conversations and connections with them.
So you know, the parallel sitting in a car having conversation,
listening to music, going on walks together is so much
(12:06):
less confronting than just sitting across the table from them
and saying, how is your day? Then they don't know
what to so probably maybe what I'll do by answering
that question is give an example of a teenager who
I felt answered the question of all the adults in
the room. And so I was lucky enough to be
asked to attend a PD for teachers out at a
(12:27):
massive school and vulnerable talking to them about how we
can best support neurodivision kids in the classroom. And before me,
who was supposedly the expert because I've written a book
for parents and supporting eurodivision kids, they asked a year
eight girl to get up and do a PowerPoint and
talk about what it was like to have ADHD and
go through school. And she prepared this beautiful PowerPoint and
she talked about the challenges but some of the cool
(12:49):
things about having ADHD too, And when it was time
for me to stand up, I was like, my job
here is done. Pretty much. She is telling you everything
you need. You don't need to hear it from me.
You actually just needed to hear it from your young people.
Ask them what is it like in the classroom for you?
Is I to challenge what are the challenges? And kids
can have the most amazing responses. And that's how I
(13:11):
try to stay open and keep learning. Is actually turning
around on other people and asking them, you know, what
are you thinking? Especially young people. Young people are so
happy if you asked them that question.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yes, Sally, another one. I love the experience, but number two,
my summary of what you've said when I'm asking you
one of the best questions you've been asked recently is
is that it's not really about the questions. It's about
the dialogue. It's about the insight that comes as we
bounce ideas off each other, which means that if we
want our kids to engage with us and converse with
us and open up books and read them, it really
(13:41):
is about somehow, as you said, bringing them out of
their shells and helping them to be open and curious
and consider that there might be a worldview or an
opportunity to step into empathy that they hadn't considered before.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Absolutely, and for us to model that we need to
be open and curious as to how they see the
world and how they're going.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
With Yeah, Yeah, beautiful. Modeling seems to be coming up
over and over and again in this conversation. In your
last answer, you referred to curiosity and your love of
asking questions. This is an unusual thing for the guy
who's doing the interview to do, but you're obviously a
prolific author, You're right for children all the time, and
(14:20):
you think deeply about a lot of things. I've got
a PhD in psychology and we share a lot of
mixed interests. I'm wondering if you have anything that you're
curious about that you like, let's turn the tables. Is
there something that you would ask me.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I love that. I think that's such fun.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I've always a bit nervous about it. It's like, am I
putting this person on the spot. It's am I making
this conversation about me? Is this too narcissistic? An ego oriented?
It is not meant to be. It's just I think
it's about the dialogue.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Right that. I'm really curious in how you find boys
are managing in the world. I know you're writing and
researching a book about boys, but you also were a boy,
and so I know there was some really interesting conversations
(15:07):
that you started around adolescents the series that I think
a lot of people have seen, And I wonder how
you feel like boys are fairing and doing the research
and studying this book. I brought up three boys, but
my youngest is now twenty two. I think it's hard
for them. And even my kids were adolescents.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So first of all, adolescents that the Netflix series turned
the world upside down, and I did write a lot
about it. One thing that I didn't do and the
series have been criticized quite a lot. Is statistically it's
quite unrealistic that the events portrayed in the series would
actually occur, and I think that that's definitely worth noting.
But those people who are getting caught up on that
are missing the broader point, and that is that there
(15:46):
is a really big challenge for our boys today in
terms of how they are relating to one another, how
they're relating to girls, and how they're relating to themselves,
their quest for identity. It's really a really tough time.
The short version is, I don't think that boys on
the whole are doing nearly as well. I've got a
whole lot of stats in my new book about how
(16:07):
for every ten girls who finish high school, only eight
boys do. For every ten girls that go to university,
only seven boys do. For every girl who graduate university,
the only six point seven boys do, and so on.
And then when we look at the negative behaviors being
involved in fights or taking drugs or blah blah blah,
as boys get older, for every ten girls who are
doing it, there are multiples of that in the boy
(16:29):
side of things that are doing it. The boy side
of the equation. So to me, that's a really big
challenge that we're facing. In Harry Potter and the Curse Child,
the Harry Potter book that was not written by JK.
Rowling and the one that went on to become the
stage play, the authors have Draco Malfoy and Harry as
adults having a conversation about their teenage children. Draco has
(16:53):
this beautiful, beautiful line that he delivers to Harry as
they're having this really challenged discussion. Raco says, people say
that parenting is the toughest job there is. It's not
growing up is, And I just there's so much empathy
in that. There's so much beauty in that really simple observation.
(17:17):
And I think about your question, and I asked myself,
born in nineteen seventy five, I'm fifty this year. Would
I rather be a child of the seventies and eighties
or would I rather be a child today? And I
don't have to think about it for a millisecond. I
know the answer. And writing this book about boys has
been a really profound experience for me, especially as a
(17:41):
father of girls, to step into the world of boys,
to look at the things that they're doing to demonstrate
that their masculinity isn't precarious, The way they're trying to
either embrace or fight against manbox beliefs, the way that
they police one another with this boy code, the impact,
the overarch devastating impact of pornography in their lives, and
(18:06):
so much more. It's really tough. I mean, you've raised
three boys. When you look at what they've been through,
would you rather be a girl or a boy being
raised today?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I one hundred percent agree with you. I think it's
I think what women have had as an umbrella and
as a model is feminism, so we have something to
work towards. Yes, what men have been living under, young
men is this umbrella of toxic masculinity. So they're saying, well,
what who do I model myself on? You know, what
(18:39):
do I aspire to? Just identifying as a straight white
man can actually make them feel bad about themselves because
of how that term is used today. And I think
it's really sad that boys are finding it so hard
to get the support they need because we have got
so good at knowing how to support girls, at giving
them go to work towards. And I think there is
(19:02):
an empty space now that boys don't know how to
step into. But I also just want to jump in
and say how much I love it that the answer
to your questions came from what is essentially a children's book,
and I just think, here, I guess here's the problem solving.
Is that if we do engage with the child's world,
(19:24):
if we do access what children are going through, and
we can do this through watching things with them, talking
about the books they're reading or the music they're listening to,
whether you like it or not, there is a portal
there that we can not only access our own childhoods
and remember how we felt growing up, but hopefully from
that space connect with our own children, because yeah, it's
(19:44):
really hard and it's very different when we're growing up.
So if we're not tuning into that, we're going to
miss opportunities to connect with them. And that was my
takeaway from adolescents that they lost connection with their son.
You know, whether or not those things he did could
have really happened. For me, The key was as soon
as you lose connection with your child, someone else would
jump in and make that connection with them, and that's
(20:05):
where the danger starts. Believe.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
So my definition of connection is when you feel seen,
heard and valued.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, that your parent is really present there for you
and curious to how you feel.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And I'm not sure that there are too many better
ways to create connection, to create a feeling of being seen,
heard and valued than to sit down and read a
book together.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Absolutely, that's the takeaway for today.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I reckon it's a pretty tidy way to finish this conversation, unplanned, unscripted.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
But I like it so good.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Sally Rippin The Australian Children's Laureate eighteen months into a
twenty four month stint, and again, such a delight to
talk with you. I love our conversations every time. Thank
you for being with me on The Happy Family's podcast.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's always much pleasure. And I'm so glad that it
remained open and curious, because I think that's how the
best conversations are.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, thank you so much. We will link to some
notes about the Australian Children's Laureate in the show notes,
as well as a couple of more popular series of
Sally's In case you have young kids who would love
to or who you would love to have those mind
expanding experiences, check the show notes for that. The Happy
Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland for Bridge Media.
Mim Hammonds looks after research, admin and resources. If you
(21:12):
would like more information about making your family happier, visit
us at happy families dot com, dot a
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