November 28, 2024 • 13 mins
The former Shoalhaven Mayor is a long way from his council days worried about rates and wheelie bins. Paul Green is now a global crusader against modern slavery.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi heartsholay childwood slavery. It's equivalent of about sixteen thousand,
eight hundred and thirty eight a three eighty planeloads full
of kids. That's how many kids are caught in child
labour and child slavery.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good Ay, I'm Pete Andrea, and in this episode my
guest is former choan Haven mayor Paul Green. These days,
though he is well removed from the raids, roads and
willybins of local politics, he's now on the global stage
on an issue that most of was his take for granted,
and that's our basic human right to freedom. Since his
(00:36):
menoral days, Paul Green moved to the New South Wales
Upper House and it was when he was appointed as
chair of a government inquiry into slavery he felt a
real calling to expose the horrible truths around the illicit
trade in human trafficking. Modern slavery is a billion dollar
industry and the numbers are staggering. In twenty seventeen, the
(00:57):
un reported and estimated more than four million people entrapped
by modern slavery, one hundred and fifty two million in
child labor. The stats are quite frankly overwhelming. Paul Green
has always been a campaign of human rights and never
wanted to sit by and ignore the exploitation of others.
But he's also not completely detached from his old stomping
(01:20):
ground here in the shoal Haven Paul, first of all,
your time as shoal Haven mayor. I suppose one cheeky
question straight off. You're watching the sidelines of the new council.
Now what do you think.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yes, well, I think stepping in any role when there's
a huge deficit in the budget would be challenging for
any new mayor, so I always feel for that, But
I also feel for the ratepayer and people are already
struggling with the cost of living, never mind having another
rate pegging incident, for the lack of guidance and leadership
(01:55):
of the previous council that's left the city in debt.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You were, as we said, the mayor of shoal Haven,
but now you're involved in the fight to end the
slave trade, the global slave trade. Tell me how did
you get from council to that endeavor.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Well, that's a good point and a good question. Let
me just say to your listeners out there that it's
a good thing when you're sitting in a little old
and raw they think, is there any way I can
be influential and you know, just follow your heart and
you never know where that can lead. Of course, I
became mayor and suddenly an opportunity rose to run for
the New South Wales Upper House, of which I got
(02:38):
elected in twenty eleven, and of course that left us
with the balance of power in New South Wales Parliament,
and so I was able to utilize those eight years
in New South Wales Parliament building up credibility with all
parties to be able to launch somewhere in about twenty
sixteen an opportunity to do something that I thought was
(02:59):
signific from my point of view, and that is try
and track or do a stock take of human trafficking
in New South Wales. And that's where the journey really started.
I went on a parliamentary tour across US and Commonwealth
countries investigating human trafficking and homelessness, and when I came back,
I was able to run an inquiry to really look
(03:22):
across New South Wales and say, you know, what's happening
in the area of modern slavery and human trafficking in
New South Wales.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What was the findings. Does it happen in New South Wales?
I can recall an incident at Helensburg who were making
a temple and there were workers that were locked inside
the compound over the weekend not allowed out. Is that
the sort of thing we're talking about?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Absolutely, absolutely all sorts of things modern slavery. You know,
it's not just about you know, people making very cheap clothes,
of which many of the G twenty countries are purchased
for very little sums. And of course it goes back
to the worker who is virtually getting pittance to actually
do hard labor. I think, so, you know, it goes
(04:08):
from that which and that's something that people know. You
know that in technology where people are you know, putting
together you know, smart phones and smart watches and once
again being paid little. So a lot of people know
that sort of side of things. But in terms of
debt bondage, where people come to Australia normally looking to
(04:29):
you know, maybe pick fruit crops or crops around the farms,
those types of situations is where their passports are taken
from them. They're putting a very small residential areas of
which they're overcrowded and they normally don't have much clothing,
and of course they're sat away and they have to
work pretty hard and then they're lucky if they get
(04:52):
any wages whatsoever. And that's type of thing that's happening
in New South Wales. There's a lot of agriculture sort
of slavery stuff happening, and of course debt bondage where
people aren't being paid the correct amount or you know,
theft of their wage really and so those all qualify
for the modern slavery definition for.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The first time, Paul, over half of Australian A six
one hundred companies have received an A grade in relation
to modern slavery reporting. Are we taking this seriously now?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Look, I think we're with my legislation that put in
place an anti slavery Commissioner, only one of two across
the world. We've recently just seen finally the Australian government
come to the party with federal Anti Slavery Commissioner. And
there's no doubt that that sort of puts a bit
more rigidity under the laws to ensure that companies are
(05:49):
not prospering on the back of slavery. Of course, many
many companies are trying to, you know, look good on
the outside, but it's what's happening behind the scenes, you know,
it's the audits that really find out what their operations
are doing, where they're getting their products from, and whether
they're trying to prosper on the back of slavery or
the slave trade.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So is Australia now well passed its own chapters of
enforced labor at the expense of basic human rights. More
soon of our conversation with former shoal Haven mayor Paul Green.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I heart shoal Haven. I heartshoal Haven.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Paul Green often finds himself a long way from the
shoal Haven, not just physically, but in the daily confrontation
of endless global reports on cases of human trafficking, child
labor and women forced into the illicit sex trade. Australia
hasn't been without its own shame. Not to the extent
of some other countries, but many a fortune was built
(06:50):
on the backs of indigenous workers taken against their will
from Northern Irelands and forced to work in cane fields
or remote cattle stations. Back conversation with Paul Green and
some stats that will make you sit back and wonder
on just how huge the modern slavery problem remains right
across the globe. Paul, putting it into context, you quoted
(07:14):
me a shocking figure of around thousands of people per
day are being deaf, are being enslaved.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, that's right. Sadly, obviously, the brief Sustainable Development Goal
eight point seven is basically the abolition of slavery and
slavery like practices by twenty thirty. Unfortunately, we have something
like fifty million people caught up in slavery globally, and
of course we're seeing that it's not decreasing even with
(07:44):
some of the initiatives that we're doing at this point
of time. So I think the thing is that, you know,
if we keep doing the same thing the same way,
I mean, that just is the definition of stupidity if
we're expecting a different result. Because five thousand people a
year are being caught up in slavery extra so if
you put that current stat together, it would be about
(08:05):
fifty seven million people, which would equate to around the
twenty seventh largest nation on Earth. Now that's pretty abhorrent
and disgusting when you think of it, that that there's
that many people caught up in child labor, slave labor
and human trafficking.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So we're next, what do we do locally to combat
this abhorrent trade?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Another good question. You know, there's lots of things that
we can do, and I'm happy to say with the
legacy that I've left with the New South Wales's Modern
Day Slavery Act is that we've now got an anti
slavery Commission in New South Wales that's doing a really
really good job and working on at least our own
house so to speak. You know, sometimes we need to
look after our own house before we extend a hand outwards.
(08:52):
But I'm sure that we can do both and we are.
But look just being aware of the products people are buying,
being aware of the clothes where it comes from, being
aware of when you're buying online, especially now, because people
are always trying to get a bargain. We're just going
to make sure that those bargains aren't on the back
of slaves or slavery like practices. And of course on
(09:13):
the bigger front Peter At which we spoke about through
the G twenty in the Faith for Him, which I
was to support a resolution by Kevin Highland which virtually
is trying to push governments across the earth to invest
thirty billion dollars a year for the next five years
to end human trafficking and modern slavery. Now that really means,
(09:34):
if you put it in context, the industry alone in
the US is worth about two hundred and thirty six
billion dollars. So really, if we're going to fight that
sort of giant, we need to put some decent money
in there and decent programs. And some of those programs,
as Kevin Highland and myself are dealing with, is to
deal with international governments to ensure that we're making clear
(09:58):
the very expectation to it those other nations that if
they're getting finances or aid from US, that they also
need to be ticking boxes to be fighting against human
slavery and human trafficking.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It's incredible, isn't it. When we talk about slavery, we
think to ourselves, well, that ended with the American Civil War.
England abolished slavery around about the same time as did Australia,
but it continues.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
William Wilberforce was a champion, Abraham Lincoln was a champion
of it, Sir Patrick, and it just goes on there's
just all these heroes that try to end modern slavery.
But as you say, the harder man knows no end
of darkness. And when it comes to money and wealth
and prosperity, some people will do whatever it takes, and
(10:50):
that includes absolutely oppressing other people and their rights to
be able to get rich and wealthy and live a
lifestyle far above what any average person would be living.
And they do it on the back of slavery.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You mentioned the goal is to end slavery by twenty thirty.
It's very solar sort of time frame to the zero
net push that we've seen. I suspect though, that zero
net might be a little easier than the slavery issue.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well maybe, I dare say they're both going to be
huge challenges, but zero nets. I mean, I think Grace
forrested it the other day. I wonder for a post
on LinkedIn. It says, no good saving the earth if
we can't save the people first, And I think she's right.
I think, you know, we've got to be able to
save the people, those that are able to fend for
(11:43):
themselves or fight for themselves and have a life that
you and I enjoy in a democratic country. Making the
choices daily that we choose to make and freely make those.
So I think we've got a long way to go,
and I think, you know, zero net s. The target
is probably secondary to sort of releasing fifty seven million
people from slavery and labor, childhood labor and poverty.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Pull the stat on children. What you know that's staggering.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, we talked about you know, modern slavery being about
you know, probably the twenty seventh largest nation if you
put that together in terms of all national per head capita.
But what let me tell you a difference to that, Peter,
and that is that for childhood labor and childhood slavery,
it's equivalent of about sixteen thousand, eight hundred and thirty
(12:35):
eight a three eighty plane loads full of kids. That's
how many kids are caught in child labor and child slavery.
Now that's pretty appalling. If one of those planes went
down and it was full of just everyday people, there
would be investigations, all sorts of accusations and due diligence
(12:56):
of why plane failed. But literally we've got six ten,
eight and thirty eight of them. Basically the equivalent of
how many kids are being caught up in slavery or
childhood labor.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Our guests today Paul Greene, former New South Wales MP
and former Sean Haven mayor and now global crusader of
human rights. So yes, we can do little things to
make a difference, mainly consumer choices when shopping or traveling,
but as Paul points out, the inequalities of our world
are coupled with a shocking tolerance of exploitation and the
(13:29):
almighty dollar at the expense of those without the basic
right to freedom. That's my heart shal Haven for this week,
supported by the New South Wales Government. I'm Pete Andrea
catching Next time
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I heart shual Haven
Hi heartsholay childwood slavery. It's equivalent of about sixteen thousand,
eight hundred and thirty eight a three eighty planeloads full
of kids. That's how many kids are caught in child
labour and child slavery.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good Ay, I'm Pete Andrea, and in this episode my
guest is former choan Haven mayor Paul Green. These days,
though he is well removed from the raids, roads and
willybins of local politics, he's now on the global stage
on an issue that most of was his take for granted,
and that's our basic human right to freedom. Since his
(00:36):
menoral days, Paul Green moved to the New South Wales
Upper House and it was when he was appointed as
chair of a government inquiry into slavery he felt a
real calling to expose the horrible truths around the illicit
trade in human trafficking. Modern slavery is a billion dollar
industry and the numbers are staggering. In twenty seventeen, the
(00:57):
un reported and estimated more than four million people entrapped
by modern slavery, one hundred and fifty two million in
child labor. The stats are quite frankly overwhelming. Paul Green
has always been a campaign of human rights and never
wanted to sit by and ignore the exploitation of others.
But he's also not completely detached from his old stomping
(01:20):
ground here in the shoal Haven Paul, first of all,
your time as shoal Haven mayor. I suppose one cheeky
question straight off. You're watching the sidelines of the new council.
Now what do you think.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yes, well, I think stepping in any role when there's
a huge deficit in the budget would be challenging for
any new mayor, so I always feel for that, But
I also feel for the ratepayer and people are already
struggling with the cost of living, never mind having another
rate pegging incident, for the lack of guidance and leadership
(01:55):
of the previous council that's left the city in debt.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You were, as we said, the mayor of shoal Haven,
but now you're involved in the fight to end the
slave trade, the global slave trade. Tell me how did
you get from council to that endeavor.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Well, that's a good point and a good question. Let
me just say to your listeners out there that it's
a good thing when you're sitting in a little old
and raw they think, is there any way I can
be influential and you know, just follow your heart and
you never know where that can lead. Of course, I
became mayor and suddenly an opportunity rose to run for
the New South Wales Upper House, of which I got
(02:38):
elected in twenty eleven, and of course that left us
with the balance of power in New South Wales Parliament,
and so I was able to utilize those eight years
in New South Wales Parliament building up credibility with all
parties to be able to launch somewhere in about twenty
sixteen an opportunity to do something that I thought was
(02:59):
signific from my point of view, and that is try
and track or do a stock take of human trafficking
in New South Wales. And that's where the journey really started.
I went on a parliamentary tour across US and Commonwealth
countries investigating human trafficking and homelessness, and when I came back,
I was able to run an inquiry to really look
(03:22):
across New South Wales and say, you know, what's happening
in the area of modern slavery and human trafficking in
New South Wales.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What was the findings. Does it happen in New South Wales?
I can recall an incident at Helensburg who were making
a temple and there were workers that were locked inside
the compound over the weekend not allowed out. Is that
the sort of thing we're talking about?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Absolutely, absolutely all sorts of things modern slavery. You know,
it's not just about you know, people making very cheap clothes,
of which many of the G twenty countries are purchased
for very little sums. And of course it goes back
to the worker who is virtually getting pittance to actually
do hard labor. I think, so, you know, it goes
(04:08):
from that which and that's something that people know. You
know that in technology where people are you know, putting
together you know, smart phones and smart watches and once
again being paid little. So a lot of people know
that sort of side of things. But in terms of
debt bondage, where people come to Australia normally looking to
(04:29):
you know, maybe pick fruit crops or crops around the farms,
those types of situations is where their passports are taken
from them. They're putting a very small residential areas of
which they're overcrowded and they normally don't have much clothing,
and of course they're sat away and they have to
work pretty hard and then they're lucky if they get
(04:52):
any wages whatsoever. And that's type of thing that's happening
in New South Wales. There's a lot of agriculture sort
of slavery stuff happening, and of course debt bondage where
people aren't being paid the correct amount or you know,
theft of their wage really and so those all qualify
for the modern slavery definition for.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The first time, Paul, over half of Australian A six
one hundred companies have received an A grade in relation
to modern slavery reporting. Are we taking this seriously now?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Look, I think we're with my legislation that put in
place an anti slavery Commissioner, only one of two across
the world. We've recently just seen finally the Australian government
come to the party with federal Anti Slavery Commissioner. And
there's no doubt that that sort of puts a bit
more rigidity under the laws to ensure that companies are
(05:49):
not prospering on the back of slavery. Of course, many
many companies are trying to, you know, look good on
the outside, but it's what's happening behind the scenes, you know,
it's the audits that really find out what their operations
are doing, where they're getting their products from, and whether
they're trying to prosper on the back of slavery or
the slave trade.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
So is Australia now well passed its own chapters of
enforced labor at the expense of basic human rights. More
soon of our conversation with former shoal Haven mayor Paul Green.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I heart shoal Haven. I heartshoal Haven.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Paul Green often finds himself a long way from the
shoal Haven, not just physically, but in the daily confrontation
of endless global reports on cases of human trafficking, child
labor and women forced into the illicit sex trade. Australia
hasn't been without its own shame. Not to the extent
of some other countries, but many a fortune was built
(06:50):
on the backs of indigenous workers taken against their will
from Northern Irelands and forced to work in cane fields
or remote cattle stations. Back conversation with Paul Green and
some stats that will make you sit back and wonder
on just how huge the modern slavery problem remains right
across the globe. Paul, putting it into context, you quoted
(07:14):
me a shocking figure of around thousands of people per
day are being deaf, are being enslaved.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, that's right. Sadly, obviously, the brief Sustainable Development Goal
eight point seven is basically the abolition of slavery and
slavery like practices by twenty thirty. Unfortunately, we have something
like fifty million people caught up in slavery globally, and
of course we're seeing that it's not decreasing even with
(07:44):
some of the initiatives that we're doing at this point
of time. So I think the thing is that, you know,
if we keep doing the same thing the same way,
I mean, that just is the definition of stupidity if
we're expecting a different result. Because five thousand people a
year are being caught up in slavery extra so if
you put that current stat together, it would be about
(08:05):
fifty seven million people, which would equate to around the
twenty seventh largest nation on Earth. Now that's pretty abhorrent
and disgusting when you think of it, that that there's
that many people caught up in child labor, slave labor
and human trafficking.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So we're next, what do we do locally to combat
this abhorrent trade?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Another good question. You know, there's lots of things that
we can do, and I'm happy to say with the
legacy that I've left with the New South Wales's Modern
Day Slavery Act is that we've now got an anti
slavery Commission in New South Wales that's doing a really
really good job and working on at least our own
house so to speak. You know, sometimes we need to
look after our own house before we extend a hand outwards.
(08:52):
But I'm sure that we can do both and we are.
But look just being aware of the products people are buying,
being aware of the clothes where it comes from, being
aware of when you're buying online, especially now, because people
are always trying to get a bargain. We're just going
to make sure that those bargains aren't on the back
of slaves or slavery like practices. And of course on
(09:13):
the bigger front Peter At which we spoke about through
the G twenty in the Faith for Him, which I
was to support a resolution by Kevin Highland which virtually
is trying to push governments across the earth to invest
thirty billion dollars a year for the next five years
to end human trafficking and modern slavery. Now that really means,
(09:34):
if you put it in context, the industry alone in
the US is worth about two hundred and thirty six
billion dollars. So really, if we're going to fight that
sort of giant, we need to put some decent money
in there and decent programs. And some of those programs,
as Kevin Highland and myself are dealing with, is to
deal with international governments to ensure that we're making clear
(09:58):
the very expectation to it those other nations that if
they're getting finances or aid from US, that they also
need to be ticking boxes to be fighting against human
slavery and human trafficking.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It's incredible, isn't it. When we talk about slavery, we
think to ourselves, well, that ended with the American Civil War.
England abolished slavery around about the same time as did Australia,
but it continues.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
William Wilberforce was a champion, Abraham Lincoln was a champion
of it, Sir Patrick, and it just goes on there's
just all these heroes that try to end modern slavery.
But as you say, the harder man knows no end
of darkness. And when it comes to money and wealth
and prosperity, some people will do whatever it takes, and
(10:50):
that includes absolutely oppressing other people and their rights to
be able to get rich and wealthy and live a
lifestyle far above what any average person would be living.
And they do it on the back of slavery.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You mentioned the goal is to end slavery by twenty thirty.
It's very solar sort of time frame to the zero
net push that we've seen. I suspect though, that zero
net might be a little easier than the slavery issue.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well maybe, I dare say they're both going to be
huge challenges, but zero nets. I mean, I think Grace
forrested it the other day. I wonder for a post
on LinkedIn. It says, no good saving the earth if
we can't save the people first, And I think she's right.
I think, you know, we've got to be able to
save the people, those that are able to fend for
(11:43):
themselves or fight for themselves and have a life that
you and I enjoy in a democratic country. Making the
choices daily that we choose to make and freely make those.
So I think we've got a long way to go,
and I think, you know, zero net s. The target
is probably secondary to sort of releasing fifty seven million
people from slavery and labor, childhood labor and poverty.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Pull the stat on children. What you know that's staggering.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, we talked about you know, modern slavery being about
you know, probably the twenty seventh largest nation if you
put that together in terms of all national per head capita.
But what let me tell you a difference to that, Peter,
and that is that for childhood labor and childhood slavery,
it's equivalent of about sixteen thousand, eight hundred and thirty
(12:35):
eight a three eighty plane loads full of kids. That's
how many kids are caught in child labor and child slavery.
Now that's pretty appalling. If one of those planes went
down and it was full of just everyday people, there
would be investigations, all sorts of accusations and due diligence
(12:56):
of why plane failed. But literally we've got six ten,
eight and thirty eight of them. Basically the equivalent of
how many kids are being caught up in slavery or
childhood labor.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Our guests today Paul Greene, former New South Wales MP
and former Sean Haven mayor and now global crusader of
human rights. So yes, we can do little things to
make a difference, mainly consumer choices when shopping or traveling,
but as Paul points out, the inequalities of our world
are coupled with a shocking tolerance of exploitation and the
(13:29):
almighty dollar at the expense of those without the basic
right to freedom. That's my heart shal Haven for this week,
supported by the New South Wales Government. I'm Pete Andrea
catching Next time
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I heart shual Haven
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.