May 16, 2024 • 15 mins
This week on iHeart Tassie, John Fabris discusses the work of the Tasmanian Gender Service in transitioning children.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I heart it. Hello, this is John Fabris. A topic
today bound to draw intense emotional responses the active participation
of the state in facilitating the physical and emotional transitioning
of a child's gender. I heart he coming up Doctor
(00:21):
Annette Barrett from Tasmania's AMA, who will speak to the
physiology of puberty blockers and other processes. Let me read
to you from the state government's website of the Tasmanian
Gender Service. The TGS offers advice, assessment and treatment for
children and young people experiencing significant difficulties with either being
(00:41):
gender diverse, wanting to express their gender in different ways,
or experiencing gender dysphoria feeling uncomfortable with their gender assigned
at birth. We provide psychological support, fertility counseling, gender affirming
medical interventions i e. Puberty blockers and gender affirming hormones.
(01:02):
Isla McGregor our guests from Women Speak Tasmania, how do
you respond to what I've just read? There isilight Women.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Speak Tasmania have just received Right to Information documents concerning
the information collated by the Tasmanian Gender Service. We are
extremely concerned at the lack of independence and transparency of
the Tasmanian Gender Service, especially in light of the information
(01:32):
we've received, and also in light of the United Kingdom's
Doctor Cass Report which was recently released, which had damming
ratings on five the gender clinics in Australia that were
assessed on various standards. Now importantly, the Tismanian Gender Service
relies on the Royal Children's Hospital Melbourne guidelines in relation
(01:56):
to treatment of young people under eighteen gender dysphoria, and
we are extremely concerned that Australia and the Tasmanian Gender
Service continue to prescribe off label puberty blockers to young people,
which the CASH reports can lead to sterility, sexual dysfunction
(02:18):
and multiple physical health problems into the long term.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Some of the information you provided to me is that
this has blown up in a massive way in Britain,
where there are numerous cases of children who've gone through
this transition who are now seeking legal recourse. In other words,
are not happy.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, that's the case in Britain, in America, in Canada,
in other countries, the Scandinavian countries, many detransitioners are now
coming forward saying that due to grossly in adequate assessment processes.
Psychotherapeutic assessment processes which should be aimed at at looking
(03:00):
at all aspects of mental health of the individuals are
not being used. And even in some cases after two
telephone appointments or short appointments for the specialists, are they
being fast tracked onto purity blockers or cross six hallmones.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The case of doctor Gillian Spencer at Queensland's Children Hospital,
you sent me some information there. She was suspended from
her role there because she wouldn't abide by this positive
affirmation approach of gender treatment transitioning when there might be
underlying mental health pathologies.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
That's correct. Now doctor Gillian Spencer is still being investigated.
She's a classic example of a whistleblower. She has been pursued, harassed, vilified.
We have other health professionals who are experts in the
field of treatment of young people with gender dysphoria who
have been reported repeatedly to APRA. This is not an
(03:56):
issue where there is consensus in the medical community. National
Association of Practicing Psychiatrists in fact have the gold standard
guidelines for care, and that gold standard is not the
affirmative care approach. It is the cautious, careful approach which
entails proper multidisciplinary care, including psycho therapeutic assessment for other
(04:21):
conditions such as ADHD, autism, depression, borderline personality disorder, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So Isla McGregor from Women Speak Tasmania on Iheartasy. Something
I've read is puberty blockers impacting so much more than
sexuality or gender, but stunting development of the human body
across various systems necessary for good, healthy and adulthood. I'll
explore that with doctor Annette Barrett from the IMA. But
(04:49):
is that something that you've come across in your research.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes, absolutely, and this is part of the basis on
which the National Association of Practicing Psychiatrists have their guideline
on the Puberty blockers cause potentially osteoporosis problems for the liver,
potentially cancer of the liver. They cause a stunting of
the growth. They can cause the decreasing growth of genitals,
(05:15):
atrophy of genitals, and potentially cognitive impairments. So what they're
effectively doing is there you're retarding your growth into adulthood
in all respects. One of the important things I'd like
to raise, doctor Hillary cass and other reports in the
UK in relation to gender affirming policies in the education
(05:36):
system have basically found that the social transitioning of children
in the education system, often without parental consent, puts these
young people on a trajectory to medical transition, and that
the Education department here in Tasmania have been alerted to this,
they have failed to respond or take any action on this,
(05:59):
and we have a systematic rollout of a gender ideology
and affirmative care approach in our education system. We believe
in women Speak Tasmania that this is in fact a
much greater potential harm to the mental health of young
people today and into the future, and is the treadmill
(06:20):
to the medical transitioning of those children.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
What's your understanding of the political landscape in Tasmania around
services for assisting the gender transitioning of kids.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I don't believe that it's popular with many MPs. This
issue actually does across the political spectrum. There are people
from the Greens, not in the party, the elected members
and in labor who are very doubtful about this issue,
but they are too afraid to basically stand up and
(06:53):
take an ethical stand that we really need to be
doing our due diligence and ensuring that a publicly funded
agency likesis managed gender service and private health practitioners are
abiding by that guiding medical philosophy first, do no harm. Now,
at the moment, we don't know, we have received anecdotal evidence.
(07:15):
We don't know how many private practitioners are prescribing puberty blockers.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
We do know they are.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
We do know that pharmacists are filling scripts for puberty
blockers off label purposes. So we have a very big
issue at the core of this issue. We actually need
to go back to the laws that have enabled this
whole process to become entrenched within our education and our
health system. And that goes back to the sex self
(07:43):
id legislation and the legal sanctioning and protection of a
belief system which is gender ideology, which is in fact
not based on reality or medical science.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So Eiler, I suppose from here you've written to the
Health minister. What exactly are you seeking from him?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, we've written twice now to the Health Minister. We
wrote about a month ago, again after the Kash review
findings first came out, with six countries now having banned
or restricted the use of puberty blockers. And cross six
or monster under eighteens. The federal government al Anthony Albanizi
has said that he believes this is a state matter.
(08:24):
I think basically he is just too scared to tackle
it because of the backlash from the gender lobby. So
we want the Health Minister to actually step up on this,
particularly before any debate on the proposed anti conversion legislation,
because the real push with the anti conversion legislation is
not to stop the so called conversion therapies that are
(08:47):
not happening in Tasmania and haven't happened here for years,
but is actually to push for the mandating of the
now discredited affirmative care model for the treatment of children
with genders.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, just wrap this up, Aila, I suppose if I
may asked, does it worry you in a democracy the
way free speech and the right to question the safety
around something is so suppressed it gets labeled as hate speech.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
That's right, John. I mean, this is the bigger picture
about how cancel culture in Tasmania has come home to
roost in a very big way on multiple levels to
do with identity politics. Our only concern is in relation
to the rights of children and the rights of women
their sex based rights. We have had a diabolical process
(09:35):
that has occurred with this sex self idea legislation that
has erased the free speech rights and the protection of
those rights for women. To discuss issues about these laws
that are impacting on our whole community, specifically through the
education system, but in every institution. The transgendering of institutions
(09:57):
in terms of language and control, compelled to speech things
like that we've got a big attack on free speech
through these laws. They really need to be reviewed and repealed.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Tyler McGregor from Women Speak Tasmania. Next on iHeart Tassy,
doctor or Net Barrett from the AMA with information on
how puberty blockers work, will ask whether there are health
problems involved and the case for the work of the
Tasmanian Gender Service. All coming up I Heart Zazi, iHeart As,
(10:31):
I Heart Tassy this week discussing the work of the
Tasmanian Gender Service and transitioning of gender for children. One
of their tools is puberty blockers. Doctor a net Barrett
from the AMA. How do they work all right?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
The most common one used is a gnatotropans releasing hormone
which is injected on a monthly or as a depot basis,
and what it does is tell the sex hormones that
are developing in the child not to develop, and they
use at the beginning of puberty, when puberty has just started.
So if the child was born physically male, it would
(11:08):
stop the development office size as a penis development disclosure,
and it would stop the development of body hair and
facial hair at that stage. Under same if the world
is born female and is going through the beginning of puberty,
it would stop the development of breath, would stop the
onset of menarchy, and if it'd stop the development of
body hair, so it holds their child in limbos in
(11:31):
that early stage of puberty.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So preventing the physiological process of puberty. Does this stunt
growth and have health implications in adulthood?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It can if it's used for a long period of time,
there is a potential for problems with the bone development.
But these drugs are used for a short period of
time in confrontation with the team of doctors and nurses
and psychologists, the whole team that these children who are
gender diverse or suffering from this barrior involved with a
(12:01):
team of people. So these drugs are used for the
shortest period of time as possible to allow the development
of the future of this child as to where they
wish to go, where they need to go, and to
be able to express their gender identity without the pressure
of puberty forcing them down a pathway that many cases
(12:21):
doesn't feel natural for that child.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
In the case of someone reaching adulthood and they have
a change of heart, a change of mind, have these
puberty blockers made going back to their original assigned gender
at birth impossible?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Not at all? A puberty blocker when it stopped. If
there has been no other activities taken, so they haven't
gone on to hormones to make films develop the characteristics
of the opposite sex, then no stopping the puberty blocker
just means that puberty rolls on.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
What's the incidence of their use? Are the numerous kids
receiving this treatment into tas mania or is it super rare?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
It's not super rare. It's not numerous, it's a small number.
I don't have those numbers in frontally because they're not
something that's public public knowledge. Each child is individual, and
as I said, each child is managed by a team
of people, including psychologists, including entrochronologists, including many cases a
psychiatrists and doctors who are experts in this area, along
(13:24):
with nurses and psychologists, so each one is under a
team and it varies. It's not an insignificant number, but
we don't publish the numbers because that's not in anyone's
best interest.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
When you are seeing these children going through these processes,
is it improving their standard of life and well being mentally?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yes, if for some of these children it's life savings.
A child who is in a body that does not
feel like it reflects who they are, then the suicide
rates would they are fourced to continue in that body
are significant. We know from the evidence of transgender adults
and transgender children the suicide rates in ones who are
(14:06):
not allowed to express who they feel they are it
has a significant suicide risk. We know that these children
have been able to express who they believe and feel
and know they are, their mental health improves dramatically.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
What do you say to those who would assert that
this isn't the decision for a child, that that should
be after eighteen years of age entirely up to them,
but prior to that they're not mentally developed enough to
make these life altering decisions.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
This is why it is a team approach that's held
with the child, with the parents sort or guardian depending
on who that is, with a team of people who
can explore these issues and tease them out. And yes,
the duty blockers allow time for this to happen, so
that we can put puberty on pause while all these
issues are discussed, while the young person has a chance
(14:59):
to make up their mind whether this is exactly what
they're feeling. And for no irreversible procedures are undertaken at
someone at such a vulnerable age, So all we're doing
at the Punity bockit is to be giving us time
to discuss these things and to work through all the
myriad of changes that are required.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Doctor Annette Barrett from the AMA. That's this week's episode
of I Heart Tassi. Hear them in full as a
podcast and back on your radio again this time next
work My Heart's Assi
I heart it. Hello, this is John Fabris. A topic
today bound to draw intense emotional responses the active participation
of the state in facilitating the physical and emotional transitioning
of a child's gender. I heart he coming up Doctor
(00:21):
Annette Barrett from Tasmania's AMA, who will speak to the
physiology of puberty blockers and other processes. Let me read
to you from the state government's website of the Tasmanian
Gender Service. The TGS offers advice, assessment and treatment for
children and young people experiencing significant difficulties with either being
(00:41):
gender diverse, wanting to express their gender in different ways,
or experiencing gender dysphoria feeling uncomfortable with their gender assigned
at birth. We provide psychological support, fertility counseling, gender affirming
medical interventions i e. Puberty blockers and gender affirming hormones.
(01:02):
Isla McGregor our guests from Women Speak Tasmania, how do
you respond to what I've just read? There isilight Women.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Speak Tasmania have just received Right to Information documents concerning
the information collated by the Tasmanian Gender Service. We are
extremely concerned at the lack of independence and transparency of
the Tasmanian Gender Service, especially in light of the information
(01:32):
we've received, and also in light of the United Kingdom's
Doctor Cass Report which was recently released, which had damming
ratings on five the gender clinics in Australia that were
assessed on various standards. Now importantly, the Tismanian Gender Service
relies on the Royal Children's Hospital Melbourne guidelines in relation
(01:56):
to treatment of young people under eighteen gender dysphoria, and
we are extremely concerned that Australia and the Tasmanian Gender
Service continue to prescribe off label puberty blockers to young people,
which the CASH reports can lead to sterility, sexual dysfunction
(02:18):
and multiple physical health problems into the long term.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Some of the information you provided to me is that
this has blown up in a massive way in Britain,
where there are numerous cases of children who've gone through
this transition who are now seeking legal recourse. In other words,
are not happy.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, that's the case in Britain, in America, in Canada,
in other countries, the Scandinavian countries, many detransitioners are now
coming forward saying that due to grossly in adequate assessment processes.
Psychotherapeutic assessment processes which should be aimed at at looking
(03:00):
at all aspects of mental health of the individuals are
not being used. And even in some cases after two
telephone appointments or short appointments for the specialists, are they
being fast tracked onto purity blockers or cross six hallmones.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The case of doctor Gillian Spencer at Queensland's Children Hospital,
you sent me some information there. She was suspended from
her role there because she wouldn't abide by this positive
affirmation approach of gender treatment transitioning when there might be
underlying mental health pathologies.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
That's correct. Now doctor Gillian Spencer is still being investigated.
She's a classic example of a whistleblower. She has been pursued, harassed, vilified.
We have other health professionals who are experts in the
field of treatment of young people with gender dysphoria who
have been reported repeatedly to APRA. This is not an
(03:56):
issue where there is consensus in the medical community. National
Association of Practicing Psychiatrists in fact have the gold standard
guidelines for care, and that gold standard is not the
affirmative care approach. It is the cautious, careful approach which
entails proper multidisciplinary care, including psycho therapeutic assessment for other
(04:21):
conditions such as ADHD, autism, depression, borderline personality disorder, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So Isla McGregor from Women Speak Tasmania on Iheartasy. Something
I've read is puberty blockers impacting so much more than
sexuality or gender, but stunting development of the human body
across various systems necessary for good, healthy and adulthood. I'll
explore that with doctor Annette Barrett from the IMA. But
(04:49):
is that something that you've come across in your research.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yes, absolutely, and this is part of the basis on
which the National Association of Practicing Psychiatrists have their guideline
on the Puberty blockers cause potentially osteoporosis problems for the liver,
potentially cancer of the liver. They cause a stunting of
the growth. They can cause the decreasing growth of genitals,
(05:15):
atrophy of genitals, and potentially cognitive impairments. So what they're
effectively doing is there you're retarding your growth into adulthood
in all respects. One of the important things I'd like
to raise, doctor Hillary cass and other reports in the
UK in relation to gender affirming policies in the education
(05:36):
system have basically found that the social transitioning of children
in the education system, often without parental consent, puts these
young people on a trajectory to medical transition, and that
the Education department here in Tasmania have been alerted to this,
they have failed to respond or take any action on this,
(05:59):
and we have a systematic rollout of a gender ideology
and affirmative care approach in our education system. We believe
in women Speak Tasmania that this is in fact a
much greater potential harm to the mental health of young
people today and into the future, and is the treadmill
(06:20):
to the medical transitioning of those children.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
What's your understanding of the political landscape in Tasmania around
services for assisting the gender transitioning of kids.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I don't believe that it's popular with many MPs. This
issue actually does across the political spectrum. There are people
from the Greens, not in the party, the elected members
and in labor who are very doubtful about this issue,
but they are too afraid to basically stand up and
(06:53):
take an ethical stand that we really need to be
doing our due diligence and ensuring that a publicly funded
agency likesis managed gender service and private health practitioners are
abiding by that guiding medical philosophy first, do no harm. Now,
at the moment, we don't know, we have received anecdotal evidence.
(07:15):
We don't know how many private practitioners are prescribing puberty blockers.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
We do know they are.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
We do know that pharmacists are filling scripts for puberty
blockers off label purposes. So we have a very big
issue at the core of this issue. We actually need
to go back to the laws that have enabled this
whole process to become entrenched within our education and our
health system. And that goes back to the sex self
(07:43):
id legislation and the legal sanctioning and protection of a
belief system which is gender ideology, which is in fact
not based on reality or medical science.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So Eiler, I suppose from here you've written to the
Health minister. What exactly are you seeking from him?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, we've written twice now to the Health Minister. We
wrote about a month ago, again after the Kash review
findings first came out, with six countries now having banned
or restricted the use of puberty blockers. And cross six
or monster under eighteens. The federal government al Anthony Albanizi
has said that he believes this is a state matter.
(08:24):
I think basically he is just too scared to tackle
it because of the backlash from the gender lobby. So
we want the Health Minister to actually step up on this,
particularly before any debate on the proposed anti conversion legislation,
because the real push with the anti conversion legislation is
not to stop the so called conversion therapies that are
(08:47):
not happening in Tasmania and haven't happened here for years,
but is actually to push for the mandating of the
now discredited affirmative care model for the treatment of children
with genders.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, just wrap this up, Aila, I suppose if I
may asked, does it worry you in a democracy the
way free speech and the right to question the safety
around something is so suppressed it gets labeled as hate speech.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
That's right, John. I mean, this is the bigger picture
about how cancel culture in Tasmania has come home to
roost in a very big way on multiple levels to
do with identity politics. Our only concern is in relation
to the rights of children and the rights of women
their sex based rights. We have had a diabolical process
(09:35):
that has occurred with this sex self idea legislation that
has erased the free speech rights and the protection of
those rights for women. To discuss issues about these laws
that are impacting on our whole community, specifically through the
education system, but in every institution. The transgendering of institutions
(09:57):
in terms of language and control, compelled to speech things
like that we've got a big attack on free speech
through these laws. They really need to be reviewed and repealed.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Tyler McGregor from Women Speak Tasmania. Next on iHeart Tassy,
doctor or Net Barrett from the AMA with information on
how puberty blockers work, will ask whether there are health
problems involved and the case for the work of the
Tasmanian Gender Service. All coming up I Heart Zazi, iHeart As,
(10:31):
I Heart Tassy this week discussing the work of the
Tasmanian Gender Service and transitioning of gender for children. One
of their tools is puberty blockers. Doctor a net Barrett
from the AMA. How do they work all right?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
The most common one used is a gnatotropans releasing hormone
which is injected on a monthly or as a depot basis,
and what it does is tell the sex hormones that
are developing in the child not to develop, and they
use at the beginning of puberty, when puberty has just started.
So if the child was born physically male, it would
(11:08):
stop the development office size as a penis development disclosure,
and it would stop the development of body hair and
facial hair at that stage. Under same if the world
is born female and is going through the beginning of puberty,
it would stop the development of breath, would stop the
onset of menarchy, and if it'd stop the development of
body hair, so it holds their child in limbos in
(11:31):
that early stage of puberty.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So preventing the physiological process of puberty. Does this stunt
growth and have health implications in adulthood?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It can if it's used for a long period of time,
there is a potential for problems with the bone development.
But these drugs are used for a short period of
time in confrontation with the team of doctors and nurses
and psychologists, the whole team that these children who are
gender diverse or suffering from this barrior involved with a
(12:01):
team of people. So these drugs are used for the
shortest period of time as possible to allow the development
of the future of this child as to where they
wish to go, where they need to go, and to
be able to express their gender identity without the pressure
of puberty forcing them down a pathway that many cases
(12:21):
doesn't feel natural for that child.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
In the case of someone reaching adulthood and they have
a change of heart, a change of mind, have these
puberty blockers made going back to their original assigned gender
at birth impossible?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Not at all? A puberty blocker when it stopped. If
there has been no other activities taken, so they haven't
gone on to hormones to make films develop the characteristics
of the opposite sex, then no stopping the puberty blocker
just means that puberty rolls on.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
What's the incidence of their use? Are the numerous kids
receiving this treatment into tas mania or is it super rare?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
It's not super rare. It's not numerous, it's a small number.
I don't have those numbers in frontally because they're not
something that's public public knowledge. Each child is individual, and
as I said, each child is managed by a team
of people, including psychologists, including entrochronologists, including many cases a
psychiatrists and doctors who are experts in this area, along
(13:24):
with nurses and psychologists, so each one is under a
team and it varies. It's not an insignificant number, but
we don't publish the numbers because that's not in anyone's
best interest.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
When you are seeing these children going through these processes,
is it improving their standard of life and well being mentally?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yes, if for some of these children it's life savings.
A child who is in a body that does not
feel like it reflects who they are, then the suicide
rates would they are fourced to continue in that body
are significant. We know from the evidence of transgender adults
and transgender children the suicide rates in ones who are
(14:06):
not allowed to express who they feel they are it
has a significant suicide risk. We know that these children
have been able to express who they believe and feel
and know they are, their mental health improves dramatically.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
What do you say to those who would assert that
this isn't the decision for a child, that that should
be after eighteen years of age entirely up to them,
but prior to that they're not mentally developed enough to
make these life altering decisions.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
This is why it is a team approach that's held
with the child, with the parents sort or guardian depending
on who that is, with a team of people who
can explore these issues and tease them out. And yes,
the duty blockers allow time for this to happen, so
that we can put puberty on pause while all these
issues are discussed, while the young person has a chance
(14:59):
to make up their mind whether this is exactly what
they're feeling. And for no irreversible procedures are undertaken at
someone at such a vulnerable age, So all we're doing
at the Punity bockit is to be giving us time
to discuss these things and to work through all the
myriad of changes that are required.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Doctor Annette Barrett from the AMA. That's this week's episode
of I Heart Tassi. Hear them in full as a
podcast and back on your radio again this time next
work My Heart's Assi
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