June 1, 2025 • 30 mins
To be a parent or not to be… did we even know we had the choice?! On this episode, we discuss how our viewpoint on having children has evolved, the pressure of bearing children especially as black African women, who has the right to make a call on having children and everything else between.
We had the pleasure of recording this season at Bittersweet Studios (@bittersweet.studios_)
The gorgeous set up for this season was done by the amazing Pink Lady Picnics: (@pinkladypicnics)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Like, hey, you better be doing it earlier because later
when you actually maybe do you want them, your body
would be like but I was shutting downstrop, now do you.
I didn't think of it like oh my god, I
can't wait. But I did think, well, like I said,
it's going to happen at some point, I'm gonna have kids.
I'm gonna get married. I'm gonna have kids.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm gonna get married by twenty five and they have
like kids.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I think I said that. I'm sure. I remember you
wanted a minivan room by, and I was going to
fill up that minivan. I just liked rolling.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
In a minivan, like to looks like a mom mom.
But it's fun being an aunt. Yes, I enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm always always be careful those Hi. I'm Amanda and
I'm Rumby. Welcome to It's like podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We're part of the Blackcast network powered by iHeart, and
today we're recording a live in studio in Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yea, I'm gonna get over actually saying to you welcome
to Marlbourneroom, because I feel like by this time in
the season of this podcast, we now all know Rumby's
here in Melbourne with us with this beautiful setup at
Pink Lady Picnics. Shout out to.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Them, and we're the sweet studios black on black on black.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
As our rumby was trying, I was.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Saying, black owned, female led businesses, we're all about that.
There eventually all about it.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Isn't it so funny. We've talked about weddings, We've talked
about rora, we've talked about motherhood, yep. But then when
you talked about motherhood would score shout out to her.
We never actually talked about that decision you make on
whether or not you want to have kids.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And the crazy thing is, I'm at that point in
my life where I'm like, how do people actually decide
because I don't have children yet?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Like, what is the thinking when people say I'm ready
or I want to have kids?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And do you think Probably maybe I'm being very general here,
but the first time ever as black women, we actually
have the choice, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So I think for our parents' generation now, it was
you have to bear an air.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, and if you don't, there's a problem quote unquote,
and it's usually the woman's fault. We'll always right, is
what those count doesn't happen. Yeah right, or you only
bear me daughters? What are wasting? It's like it's the
man actually, but anyway, true?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So yeah, I yeah, did you know you always wanted
to have kids?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You know, look, I think growing up in that context,
patriarchal context, kids are everywhere. Do you even have a choice?
Not too? I think I only thought not too once
I got to Australia. So I say, growing up, I
always thought. I didn't think of it like, oh my god,
I can't wait. But I did think, well, like I said,
(03:03):
it's going to happen at some point when I have kids.
I'm gonna get married, I'm gonna have kids, even though
my dating life in Zimbabwe would not have told you
any of that was happening, but you know what I mean,
like it just felt like, of course that's going to
happen at some point, and only maybe as I got older,
I was like, I'm going to have four? What you
said you want to four? And then I was like, no,
(03:23):
actually I want six, and then two I'm going to Okay,
okay that was and then fom is all I can say?
Four kids?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know, my grandma gave birth to eleven children. But whoa,
I don't know her, poor vagina.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I'm sorry, Grandma, Sorry, grandma's with china. But yeah you yuck.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, no, I mean those have more than I'm good
for you.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Eleven is the reality just actually talking about that our parents'
generation had lots like siblings upon siblings, true, Like I
think generally generally you'd find like people who have five
kids were like, oh only five, Like you didn't go
for a football team. It was just wild wild, which
is like seven and nine were like pretty much standard. Yeah. No,
(04:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I don't know whether I always wanted to have kids.
I think I just that whole notion is like I'm
gonna get married by twenty five and they have like kids.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think I've said that. I'm sure. I remember you
wanted a minivan room by and I was going to
fill up that minivan.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I just liked rolling in a minivan, like to look
like a mom mom. But now I've upgraded. Okay, my
dream car is a g wagon.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Okay, yeah, I rolled with that. I rolled more with
that than the mini. Why are you hitting on my minivan?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
When you said that, we were like, yeah, literally my
friends were like, why is that your dream car, I
guess the dream of having a family, a soccer mom.
Now I'm like, I'm good, yeah, but now I don't know.
I don't think I've ever had an h to I
want to be a mom like yesterday?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How do you think one does decide if they want
to have kids or or not have kids?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
These are questions I need answers to because I'm really
I think now that I'm closer to the sort of
have to make a las Yeah, I'm not like, but actually,
what's the thought process behind this? What are you supposed
to consider? And me being a type of a personality
and a perfectionist and a control I'm like, what are
the things I need to go through in making this
(05:25):
decision to have the children?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So I want to I would love for you to
answer that, you know what, I even though I have
one child, I don't really think obviously you decide at
some point, but I don't think it was this huge moment.
You know, it's kind of like do you want to?
Should we have? And then you know, like that's how
it felt. I'm definitely going through a pandemic. You kind
(05:51):
of like question what is life true? Where is life?
There's more to life and we decided to go down.
I always liken it to it's almost like you have
a house, right and you don't know how many bedrooms
or rooms are in this house, and you can live
(06:12):
your life in only your two rooms and not even realize.
And then once you open your room to that third room,
door to the third room, you're like, ah, this too,
Oh my life is even a little bit bigger. But
you still could have lived your life perfectly with only
your two rooms. And then each child opens a different
door and then you experience more of the house. But
(06:33):
it's not to say you couldn't just live your life. Yeah, people,
I think now that I have a kid, I'm pro
having kids. I'm not. I'm still pro works for you.
So for some people those two rooms are like this
is my max is enough for me, and I'm going
to live my life in the fullest and you know,
furnish these two rooms the best I can. And for
some it's like I want all the doors open and
(06:54):
all the rooms occupied, you know, and that's how they
But either way, your house.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Still functions, still function I think for me, you know,
as I pondered this, I think a lot of it
has to do like my readiness. In a lot of ways,
I think the partner I chose was kind of clouch
in form because I'm thinking about would this partner make
a good dad? And would I carry most of the
(07:22):
load alone? And do you understand? So I think subconscious
even when I was choosing my partner, I was thinking,
like I could see him being a good dad. Okay,
that also helps you know I love him because he
has these qualities For myself, I think in some weird way,
with some form of body dysmal feir, I was like
when I get a six pack, then other kid, because
(07:42):
then muscle memory. Then after it's really dumb, it's really
really stupid. Yes, Amanda just gave a long stare at me,
but I overthink, like my body can come back. I
guess essentially it's a fear of losing self. That's what
which happened, which happens with having children. And then I
(08:04):
think trying to yield wounds childhood wounds performers also get
a do over. But yeah, you know, I think that's
because you've seen what has.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Been passed on no better do better generational.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Quote unquote curses and like difficulties, so you work to
try and undo those and when you do that, you
feel like maybe I'll be a better prepared parent.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I still don't know if I'm ready to be a parent,
to be fair, but I think some of my decisions
and the things I'm doing in my life help.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's just unfortunately right because it's not really a decision
you can take back. And I feel like now that
I'm a parent and I talk to other parents, it's like,
if they know now what they know now, would they
you know? Then? Some people are really honest, and I
love that about our generation. I feel like our parents'
generation are very like, oh no, I would never think
(08:59):
that the make you feel so guilty for even having
any sort of negative thoughts. You can still two things.
You can still love your child and still think I
have been pushed to my math. Yeah, and I think
it's unfors same. I mean, with marriage, I guess you
can do force or something, but with having kids, it's
literally fair for life, so moment for life you cannot
(09:21):
take it back. But yeah, in some ways people don't
know what they don't know, right, true? So true?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But why why is there a pressure to pro create,
especially in our modern world?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I know with the billion people in the world.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And I think our parents, like at least my grandparents,
it was like a retirement plan, right that they had
x amount of kids. These kids would all take care
of them and you know.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Provide for them and typically help around the house, Like
the oldest sibling would usually be the one thing care
of you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, so like, but why the pressure to procreate even
in this modern age where.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You can live life fully, yeah, without thought? It's you know,
I think it's like similar to what we talked about
on the weddings episode, where it's a stamp of your relationship,
true stamp of the existence of your love, stamp of yeah, exactly, wild,
(10:15):
some stamp of on some level you're healthy, your generation,
your genes, your what what what carries on? Yeah, And
I think it's still a primal thing even though, and
I think it's your society pressure as well, Like you know,
if you're the only if you're the only couple and
all your couple of friends are having kids, it only like, well,
(10:37):
now we must do because everyone is doing, you know,
Like and then I think that's why episodes like this
are really good, because you take a moment to be like,
but why and I think it's a bit of vanity, right.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I want to see yourself in another and you wonder
how much.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Will they look like me? What qualities will you get
from me?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Sometimes I'm like, they don't need these qualities.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Like for me, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like
what she said as well before about you know, seeing
yourself and someone or just yeah, you're just like can
I do this? Yeah? And what will it look like?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You know, just experience of I really think procreation is
a selfish decision in a way. Like obviously, when you're
raising a child, it's very selfless because you have to
put their needs and things first. But to bring someone
into the world. Maybe it's because we grew up being
told you know that you should be grateful your year
what what do you know what I mean like where
it's like I didn't choose to be here, y'all made
(11:34):
that decision and bring me in. So it is I
think a selfish decision that requires selfless action.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So it's like, you know, Jerome didn't say, mommy, Daddy
bring me into the world, but you were like, I
think I can do this, and I want to bring
this new life in. But ultimately had you not Jerome
didn't have a say yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And similar to weddings, the proof of your love, right,
simple thing. Weddings, the bigger the better, So for kids
is like the more we have or you know, ore,
you get to the point you're like, we're financially stable,
We're financially this what's next? And usually in relationships, after
the wedding, after the marriage, that's the what next is it?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to play not Devil's advocate, but
what's the opposite? Angel's advert God's at I don't know
what the opposite is, but I think we're looking at
it very like practical terms. But I think people also
have children. There's an element of like an extension of
love and bringing good people into the world. Not ever,
(12:44):
trust me, I don't think everyone feels this way because
we've questionable exactly, but I think there's an element of
like giving unconditional love and then that gup page, what's
the parental one? Anyway that love like and some people
feel maybe they're making the world a better place, different
(13:05):
and showing some people really feel cold to having children
to pour into pour into others. Yeah, I think we're
looking very practical but I do think there's some people
who feel.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
There's also the pressure. I mean, we come from Zimbabwe,
where abortions are not freely accessible. There's also the pressure
of it just happening and then what do you do now,
so people being thrown and thrust brust into it as
well making a stupid decision and then that leads to
consequential you know, you were a kid, Now there's a
huge I mean, teenage pregnancies was not uncommon all we
(13:41):
come from, So there's like a whole array of different
pressures on why. Yeah, I mean, I think it's such
a in my opinion in some forms, such a privilege
and a Western thing to have the time to ponder
and think and and that's why I think we are
the first general to I'm pretty sure moms would have
(14:03):
just been like, well, that's what you do. Literally, I've
had it before.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Like I was talking to someone all the working with
them and they're like, oh, do you have kids because
they knew I was married, and they're.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Like, oh, do you have kids? And I was like no.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Then she just like looked at me and she's like
like why.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I was like, I'm just.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Not ready, and she was she looked quite perplex like
what do you mean, Like that's just.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
A natural progression.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, And then I think she did bring herself like
pull herself back, rain herself in a little, and she
was like, okay, you're so young, like you have time.
But I think in her brain automatically like you get married,
you have kids, no, yeah, no brain yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, and obviously you've brought up age. Some people do
think that, like, hey, would you better be doing it
earlier because later when you actually maybe do want them,
your body would be like I was shutting downstop now
what do you mean? So I feel like all the
older moms are also in that respect wise that but
they're trying. They do't not articulated where they're like, okay,
(15:02):
you can wait, but you can only wait so long,
you know, but they're gon, say, how do you put
that pressure?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And I think also we just in society, the pressure
of child raising. Child rearing is on parents now a
lot more community is especially if you don't live in
a community like in Zimbabwe, are near parents in your family,
near a support system, you know that burden falls on
us parents. So the financial concern is much bigger now
(15:31):
and so typically you need to work longer to make
the finances. Do you understand now where we have to
things are extending because of that, because you know, if
you have a kid without that financial standing, how are
you going to take care of them and work without community?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
As Ye, so many factors you think too much? Yeah,
you think more than you know? Yeah? Yeah, do you reckon?
It's anyone's business or right to comment on whether or
not you have kids or in my case, blings for
my kid.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
If your DNA is going to be it's not going
to be okay.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
There's also what a grand business?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And there's also like if you're not going to carry
the child, like you're not fusing the sperm and the
egg yourself, or you're not going to walk through the
adoption process or do you understand? Yeah, I don't think
it's truly your business. You can allude to wanting to
saying you would love grandchildren, or love a niece or nephew.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Or it's great, or to say I will support.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You in raising your children. You're welcome to do that.
But as I've just said, because I think the pressure
falls a lot on the immediate parents, I think ultimately
that decision needs to be their okay, because there's also
health issues.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean to play devil's
advocate as you were. What if it's your partner who's
commenting on like but I want kids and you don't
want or you're not on the same page essentially.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I mean typically you try to do that before you,
like partner up or you know, get married.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
How people do do they though conversations?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's compromise, right, Like you can be like I'm having
a kid in like ten years and then the partners
like I want tomorrow. Like you have to come to
like a bridging point because then often that leads to
like complete separation if you can't come.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I feel like for people who are like undecided or
someday it's a bit. But there are some people who
are clear nose. Yeah, And I think unfortunately with the
way things are set up, the people who are clear
nose or clear yes is with a clear no person,
you probably have to, as Rob said, talk about it
(17:43):
at length before marriage because if your feelings are not
going to change of no no kids or yes kids
with a no kids person, yeah, it can definitely lead
to a lot of bumping heads.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
And resentment and you hold onto the hope they will
change their mind. You never will, or then.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
You get trapped.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You like them basketball players, you know what I mean?
So I think it's only fair. It's not fair if
you know and mislead the other person.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, vice versa. Yeah. And I think speaking on that,
you know, trapping because you talked about the pressure to procreate,
some people do feel pressure to my kid would get better,
would do better. So then obviously they try to put
position themselves in that way if I marry a basketball
player or if I get a kid by a basketball player,
(18:33):
for life. But just sad, very sad.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And how do you feel like this notion of legacy
or inheritance?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Is it outdated? Do you feel like we hold it?
We put too much legacy? Legacy? Who's that? Jay z?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Someone said, how is mental health or financial whilst like
playing its part or living away from your village. You
know it takes a village to raise a child. How
is that all playing a part?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Like?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Are we all legacy our future generations? Are surnames going
on for generations to come?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I definitely think we do put a lot of weight.
And I think living in despert for me especially, has
shown me your family does not have to be blood.
So because of that thinking, it's like then legacy and
inheritance and you could be killing yourself. I mean both
(19:28):
of us have you know, parents with farms, killing yourselves
getting these farms. But do we want to now be
on your farm? So it's like I feel like before
it was always assumed in a family business, you carry
it on assume, I shume assume. But now we're living
in a world people are open, people are exposed to
other ideas. So I think the idea that what you're
(19:49):
doing now in twenty twenty four, twenty five will be
relevant in twenty forty twenty forty five.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
For your years is yeah, it's might not be. And
also I think to that point around legacy, it's also changed,
right because the way and I speak from a millennial standpoint,
we are now also taking care of our parents, right,
so there's an onus on us to sort of do
(20:15):
a lot more for our parents in an economic climate
that is not what it was when our parents were
at their peak, you know, earning stage. So sometimes it's.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Like I need to help them.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And because coming from a country like Zimbabwe where the
economy is trash, you really have to step up, and
then now you have to raise children at the same time.
Sometimes you're like and provide for other people's children exactly,
it's not balancing. So you're like, yo, like do you
want me to have kids? But it's not balancing. I'm
not going to get that support. Yeah, you know, the
village support. I'm supporting you.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Actually, matter of fact.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And then I have to take care of a child,
keep myself saying, whilst also keeping a relationship going and
also a career thriving.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So I can for all this, yes, And I think
we've realized that that village costs money, Like you can't
have it naturally, so the only way to try to
obtain it is to pay right. And I feel like
it's just it's such a confronting thought that you want, Okay,
you want to go on a date night to get
a babysitter. What are you doing? But you're not going
(21:20):
to able to be like, oh, mom, dad, come and babysit,
you know. So it's like all these things that our parents,
for example, would take for granted are serious things we
have to have.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
To consider consider And you know, if things were better,
you'd almost have the support of them saying I will
you know, take care of or I will help set
up that trust for your child.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I will.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
But it's not like that, not like we're not fortunately no.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
No, we're not at that level yet. We might, we're
striving to be, but definitely a lot of things pull
us back. And even visas right because you know, like
even if my parents want to come here and help,
I'm like, okay, do I get them at three month visa?
That's the only one that's like freely availed or not
freely but easily available. And you're thinking, but it's only
(22:06):
three months, that's gonna go. Like when you're taking care
of a kids, you want someone for years for sure,
you know. So it's like even in that, then looking
at the investment of like those year visas is like
the cost so it's like so prohibitive. Even if you
do have people who were willing and can be that village, yes,
it ends up coming down to money.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And then how does it feel for you as a
mom when you see other people with their village. And
that's something that I don't think we really talk about,
where you see people who maybe have never had the
experience of being separated from community, and they automatically. For me,
it was when I was a teacher and I would
(22:46):
see grandparents come, like like grandparents from the mom's side
coming to drop off in the morning, or the.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Grandparents on the dad's side coming to.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Pick up in the afternoon, showing up for plays, the
mom coming this time, like just that rotation and that
closeness and cousins and proximity, and you see that things
we were fortunate to have growing up that have now standard.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, how do you feel, Oh, there's how the heartbreak
you feel. Like as the day care which Jerome goes to,
they have grandparents day and you come and read, and
the heartbreak you feel when your kid doesn't ask someone
to represent them. Then you think, okay, do I go,
but I'm not a grandparent. And then you know, like
its thankfully with Australia being so full of migrants, you
(23:35):
know your kid is not the only one. There's going
to be another kid there and they're probably gonna sit
there in solidarity as the kids who don't have grandparents.
But it's still heartbreaking. You know. There's a different heartbreak
of course for those who don't have grandparents at all,
but when you do have them, but they're not there.
There's also a heartbreak for that where it's like I
couldn't even you know, try and to facilitate this, you know,
(24:00):
and then you hold on to the little moments and
you go visit family or so. I feel like people
don't know how good they have it, yes, until you
know how good you have it, you know what I mean,
until you hear someone else saying how are you handling this?
Like they're going on and on about oh my mom
can only do pick up and not this, and I'm like, well,
at least she's there, you know. And it's hard to
have those conversations with people right and not sound bitter.
(24:22):
But you're not bitter. You're just talking stating fats you
know that. Oh for me, it's completely set up differently.
Is that privilege?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Privilege that sometimes you're not aware of until you're aware
of Like someone else says, oh that's not normal for me.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah yeah yeah. And then like even when you're talking
about people commenting on whether to give a sibling or not,
you're like, well, I want them to be in touch
with their German or Zimbabwean side. That's going to cost yes.
So now it's like either I give them a sibling
or and they never see their actual other family. Yeah,
and not to mention the fact that, you know, do
you actually want another child in the house, but even
(24:58):
just the logistics and nancers around that, and people talk
to you as if you've not considered it. You're like people.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I really think people move around in this world thinking
that them saying to you, oh, you better have a
kid soon because you know, like time is running out,
Like you do not know.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
That, yeah, and like I have thought about that, and
this is how And I feel like also there's this
whole trench mentality, whether it's to have kids or not
have kids, where it's like I've made this decision, you
make the same as me, So you know, yeah, together
no sense.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But you ain't gonna be up at one am. But
that's a topic for another day. And so with blended
families now more common in modern society, or other forms
of parenting like fostering, adoption, black tax, which really is
like raising other people, you know, kids, taking care of
other family members and so on and so forth, is
(25:53):
there a need to have kids of our own given
this plethora of responsibility that we've been well endowed with
and blessed in our modern society.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
You know, practically, I probably say, no, you don't need
to write. I'm sure there's lots and lots of kids
that need loving homes. Yes, But I think it's going
back to your point. There's something innate in us to
have your own if possible. So I think that's why
we always revert to it. You know, people who do
(26:22):
end up adopting or fostering or bonus moms or you know,
it's almost happens. Thats like it just happens, or after
they've had a few of their own and they think, oh,
I really like doing this, they now look into other
But our first point of call is always your own.
And I don't know if that's a genetic trying to
(26:42):
keep your own genes going or it's but yeah, there's
no need, there's no need.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
But I do think the fact that we've come from
the Stone Age or Adam and Eve, whatever you believe,
to this point, and we continue to create, I think
it speaks to the non logical aspect of us as humans.
I think we over intelligize, if that's a word, Like,
we really look at ourselves as really educated and informed,
(27:12):
but we often ignore the sort of animalistic sense, the
primal aspects of ourselves, which is relationship and the need
for relation, and that we are wired to want to
have these connections. And I think, you know, speaking on
our other episode on the Internet and connection, I think
(27:35):
we do desire that human one on one interaction, even
though the society makes it feel like we don't need it.
So ultimately, I think that decision sometimes doesn't make logical
sense because I've been pondering this, like why do we
have kids?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Why do we want kids? Why do I want kids?
Do I want kids?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
How can I have kids?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
But I think ultimately sometimes the answer isn't logical, and
I think sometimes try to over complicate and analyze the
decision that comes from it. It's just something that something
that is is yeah, And it's scary because humans we
always want the reason but why?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
But why?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But and science has told us that we always need
to know the why why why?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And so I.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Think if you feel it in you that maybe I
could be a parent, or I think this would be nice,
or if you fall into it, sometimes right, it's like
then you're just forced into that. But I think if
for you, centuries we've continued it's like it's.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Like why but then also why not right? Not?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, but it's fun being an aunt. Yes, I enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I still enjoy being more of an aunt than the moment.
It was a lot of fun, but it was also
fun being a mom. Like, there's definitely some aspects of
it where I'm like, you know, you get to be
a kid again, you get to the things you sustress about.
Now I'm just like, so chill, Yeah, I'm sure you know.
I don't know. It's just it. But having said that's
(29:05):
my journey, there's some people who find it highly strong,
highly strong, highly so it's such a thing because, as
are saying at the top of the episode, if people
know now would they But honestly, you can't or probably
can't without that village we spoke of, yeah, to make
it work anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, I don't know if this conversation helped you decide
whether or not you want to have kids. If you do,
it might be too late. If not, good luck. But
I think it's just.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And you can also be rich anti vibes. Where nothing
wrong with that. Every kid needs to be spoilt. Yes, yes, yes,
I think you know. Look, if you're rich anti vibes
or whatever. Not having kids and you worry for your future,
thinking you'll be alone, invest on those relationships. True, that's actually,
you know, there's lots of kids out there who do
(29:53):
want that connection. And again, family is not always blood,
so there's avenues to enjoy communit unity without actually and
sometimes I am very envious of people slapping in, so
enjoy it. Definitely. Thank you, Thank you everyone, Thank you
so much for tuning in. At you on the next episode. Bye,
Like, hey, you better be doing it earlier because later
when you actually maybe do you want them, your body
would be like but I was shutting downstrop, now do you.
I didn't think of it like oh my god, I
can't wait. But I did think, well, like I said,
it's going to happen at some point, I'm gonna have kids.
I'm gonna get married. I'm gonna have kids.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm gonna get married by twenty five and they have
like kids.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I think I said that. I'm sure. I remember you
wanted a minivan room by, and I was going to
fill up that minivan. I just liked rolling.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
In a minivan, like to looks like a mom mom.
But it's fun being an aunt. Yes, I enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm always always be careful those Hi. I'm Amanda and
I'm Rumby. Welcome to It's like podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We're part of the Blackcast network powered by iHeart, and
today we're recording a live in studio in Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yea, I'm gonna get over actually saying to you welcome
to Marlbourneroom, because I feel like by this time in
the season of this podcast, we now all know Rumby's
here in Melbourne with us with this beautiful setup at
Pink Lady Picnics. Shout out to.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Them, and we're the sweet studios black on black on black.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
As our rumby was trying, I was.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Saying, black owned, female led businesses, we're all about that.
There eventually all about it.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Isn't it so funny. We've talked about weddings, We've talked
about rora, we've talked about motherhood, yep. But then when
you talked about motherhood would score shout out to her.
We never actually talked about that decision you make on
whether or not you want to have kids.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And the crazy thing is, I'm at that point in
my life where I'm like, how do people actually decide
because I don't have children yet?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Like, what is the thinking when people say I'm ready
or I want to have kids?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
And do you think Probably maybe I'm being very general here,
but the first time ever as black women, we actually
have the choice, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So I think for our parents' generation now, it was
you have to bear an air.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, and if you don't, there's a problem quote unquote,
and it's usually the woman's fault. We'll always right, is
what those count doesn't happen. Yeah right, or you only
bear me daughters? What are wasting? It's like it's the
man actually, but anyway, true?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So yeah, I yeah, did you know you always wanted
to have kids?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You know, look, I think growing up in that context,
patriarchal context, kids are everywhere. Do you even have a choice?
Not too? I think I only thought not too once
I got to Australia. So I say, growing up, I
always thought. I didn't think of it like, oh my god,
I can't wait. But I did think, well, like I said,
(03:03):
it's going to happen at some point when I have kids.
I'm gonna get married, I'm gonna have kids, even though
my dating life in Zimbabwe would not have told you
any of that was happening, but you know what I mean,
like it just felt like, of course that's going to
happen at some point, and only maybe as I got older,
I was like, I'm going to have four? What you
said you want to four? And then I was like, no,
(03:23):
actually I want six, and then two I'm going to Okay,
okay that was and then fom is all I can say?
Four kids?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know, my grandma gave birth to eleven children. But whoa,
I don't know her, poor vagina.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I'm sorry, Grandma, Sorry, grandma's with china. But yeah you yuck.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, no, I mean those have more than I'm good
for you.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Eleven is the reality just actually talking about that our parents'
generation had lots like siblings upon siblings, true, Like I
think generally generally you'd find like people who have five
kids were like, oh only five, Like you didn't go
for a football team. It was just wild wild, which
is like seven and nine were like pretty much standard. Yeah. No,
(04:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I don't know whether I always wanted to have kids.
I think I just that whole notion is like I'm
gonna get married by twenty five and they have like kids.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think I've said that. I'm sure. I remember you
wanted a minivan room by and I was going to
fill up that minivan.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I just liked rolling in a minivan, like to look
like a mom mom. But now I've upgraded. Okay, my
dream car is a g wagon.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Okay, yeah, I rolled with that. I rolled more with
that than the mini. Why are you hitting on my minivan?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
When you said that, we were like, yeah, literally my
friends were like, why is that your dream car, I
guess the dream of having a family, a soccer mom.
Now I'm like, I'm good, yeah, but now I don't know.
I don't think I've ever had an h to I
want to be a mom like yesterday?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
How do you think one does decide if they want
to have kids or or not have kids?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
These are questions I need answers to because I'm really
I think now that I'm closer to the sort of
have to make a las Yeah, I'm not like, but actually,
what's the thought process behind this? What are you supposed
to consider? And me being a type of a personality
and a perfectionist and a control I'm like, what are
the things I need to go through in making this
(05:25):
decision to have the children?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So I want to I would love for you to
answer that, you know what, I even though I have
one child, I don't really think obviously you decide at
some point, but I don't think it was this huge moment.
You know, it's kind of like do you want to?
Should we have? And then you know, like that's how
it felt. I'm definitely going through a pandemic. You kind
(05:51):
of like question what is life true? Where is life?
There's more to life and we decided to go down.
I always liken it to it's almost like you have
a house, right and you don't know how many bedrooms
or rooms are in this house, and you can live
(06:12):
your life in only your two rooms and not even realize.
And then once you open your room to that third room,
door to the third room, you're like, ah, this too,
Oh my life is even a little bit bigger. But
you still could have lived your life perfectly with only
your two rooms. And then each child opens a different
door and then you experience more of the house. But
(06:33):
it's not to say you couldn't just live your life. Yeah, people,
I think now that I have a kid, I'm pro
having kids. I'm not. I'm still pro works for you.
So for some people those two rooms are like this
is my max is enough for me, and I'm going
to live my life in the fullest and you know,
furnish these two rooms the best I can. And for
some it's like I want all the doors open and
(06:54):
all the rooms occupied, you know, and that's how they
But either way, your house.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Still functions, still function I think for me, you know,
as I pondered this, I think a lot of it
has to do like my readiness. In a lot of ways,
I think the partner I chose was kind of clouch
in form because I'm thinking about would this partner make
a good dad? And would I carry most of the
(07:22):
load alone? And do you understand? So I think subconscious
even when I was choosing my partner, I was thinking,
like I could see him being a good dad. Okay,
that also helps you know I love him because he
has these qualities For myself, I think in some weird way,
with some form of body dysmal feir, I was like
when I get a six pack, then other kid, because
(07:42):
then muscle memory. Then after it's really dumb, it's really
really stupid. Yes, Amanda just gave a long stare at me,
but I overthink, like my body can come back. I
guess essentially it's a fear of losing self. That's what
which happened, which happens with having children. And then I
(08:04):
think trying to yield wounds childhood wounds performers also get
a do over. But yeah, you know, I think that's
because you've seen what has.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Been passed on no better do better generational.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Quote unquote curses and like difficulties, so you work to
try and undo those and when you do that, you
feel like maybe I'll be a better prepared parent.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I still don't know if I'm ready to be a parent,
to be fair, but I think some of my decisions
and the things I'm doing in my life help.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's just unfortunately right because it's not really a decision
you can take back. And I feel like now that
I'm a parent and I talk to other parents, it's like,
if they know now what they know now, would they
you know? Then? Some people are really honest, and I
love that about our generation. I feel like our parents'
generation are very like, oh no, I would never think
(08:59):
that the make you feel so guilty for even having
any sort of negative thoughts. You can still two things.
You can still love your child and still think I
have been pushed to my math. Yeah, and I think
it's unfors same. I mean, with marriage, I guess you
can do force or something, but with having kids, it's
literally fair for life, so moment for life you cannot
(09:21):
take it back. But yeah, in some ways people don't
know what they don't know, right, true? So true?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But why why is there a pressure to pro create,
especially in our modern world?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I know with the billion people in the world.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And I think our parents, like at least my grandparents,
it was like a retirement plan, right that they had
x amount of kids. These kids would all take care
of them and you know.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Provide for them and typically help around the house, Like
the oldest sibling would usually be the one thing care
of you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, so like, but why the pressure to procreate even
in this modern age where.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You can live life fully, yeah, without thought? It's you know,
I think it's like similar to what we talked about
on the weddings episode, where it's a stamp of your relationship,
true stamp of the existence of your love, stamp of yeah, exactly, wild,
(10:15):
some stamp of on some level you're healthy, your generation,
your genes, your what what what carries on? Yeah, And
I think it's still a primal thing even though, and
I think it's your society pressure as well, Like you know,
if you're the only if you're the only couple and
all your couple of friends are having kids, it only like, well,
(10:37):
now we must do because everyone is doing, you know,
Like and then I think that's why episodes like this
are really good, because you take a moment to be like,
but why and I think it's a bit of vanity, right.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I want to see yourself in another and you wonder
how much.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Will they look like me? What qualities will you get
from me?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Sometimes I'm like, they don't need these qualities.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Like for me, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like
what she said as well before about you know, seeing
yourself and someone or just yeah, you're just like can
I do this? Yeah? And what will it look like?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You know, just experience of I really think procreation is
a selfish decision in a way. Like obviously, when you're
raising a child, it's very selfless because you have to
put their needs and things first. But to bring someone
into the world. Maybe it's because we grew up being
told you know that you should be grateful your year
what what do you know what I mean like where
it's like I didn't choose to be here, y'all made
(11:34):
that decision and bring me in. So it is I
think a selfish decision that requires selfless action.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So it's like, you know, Jerome didn't say, mommy, Daddy
bring me into the world, but you were like, I
think I can do this, and I want to bring
this new life in. But ultimately had you not Jerome
didn't have a say yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
And similar to weddings, the proof of your love, right,
simple thing. Weddings, the bigger the better, So for kids
is like the more we have or you know, ore,
you get to the point you're like, we're financially stable,
We're financially this what's next? And usually in relationships, after
the wedding, after the marriage, that's the what next is it?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to play not Devil's advocate, but
what's the opposite? Angel's advert God's at I don't know
what the opposite is, but I think we're looking at
it very like practical terms. But I think people also
have children. There's an element of like an extension of
love and bringing good people into the world. Not ever,
(12:44):
trust me, I don't think everyone feels this way because
we've questionable exactly, but I think there's an element of
like giving unconditional love and then that gup page, what's
the parental one? Anyway that love like and some people
feel maybe they're making the world a better place, different
(13:05):
and showing some people really feel cold to having children
to pour into pour into others. Yeah, I think we're
looking very practical but I do think there's some people
who feel.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
There's also the pressure. I mean, we come from Zimbabwe,
where abortions are not freely accessible. There's also the pressure
of it just happening and then what do you do now,
so people being thrown and thrust brust into it as
well making a stupid decision and then that leads to
consequential you know, you were a kid, Now there's a
huge I mean, teenage pregnancies was not uncommon all we
(13:41):
come from, So there's like a whole array of different
pressures on why. Yeah, I mean, I think it's such
a in my opinion in some forms, such a privilege
and a Western thing to have the time to ponder
and think and and that's why I think we are
the first general to I'm pretty sure moms would have
(14:03):
just been like, well, that's what you do. Literally, I've
had it before.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Like I was talking to someone all the working with
them and they're like, oh, do you have kids because
they knew I was married, and they're.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Like, oh, do you have kids? And I was like no.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Then she just like looked at me and she's like
like why.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
I was like, I'm just.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Not ready, and she was she looked quite perplex like
what do you mean, Like that's just.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
A natural progression.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, And then I think she did bring herself like
pull herself back, rain herself in a little, and she
was like, okay, you're so young, like you have time.
But I think in her brain automatically like you get married,
you have kids, no, yeah, no brain yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, and obviously you've brought up age. Some people do
think that, like, hey, would you better be doing it
earlier because later when you actually maybe do want them,
your body would be like I was shutting downstop now
what do you mean? So I feel like all the
older moms are also in that respect wise that but
they're trying. They do't not articulated where they're like, okay,
(15:02):
you can wait, but you can only wait so long,
you know, but they're gon, say, how do you put
that pressure?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
And I think also we just in society, the pressure
of child raising. Child rearing is on parents now a
lot more community is especially if you don't live in
a community like in Zimbabwe, are near parents in your family,
near a support system, you know that burden falls on
us parents. So the financial concern is much bigger now
(15:31):
and so typically you need to work longer to make
the finances. Do you understand now where we have to
things are extending because of that, because you know, if
you have a kid without that financial standing, how are
you going to take care of them and work without community?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
As Ye, so many factors you think too much? Yeah,
you think more than you know? Yeah? Yeah, do you reckon?
It's anyone's business or right to comment on whether or
not you have kids or in my case, blings for
my kid.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
If your DNA is going to be it's not going
to be okay.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
There's also what a grand business?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And there's also like if you're not going to carry
the child, like you're not fusing the sperm and the
egg yourself, or you're not going to walk through the
adoption process or do you understand? Yeah, I don't think
it's truly your business. You can allude to wanting to
saying you would love grandchildren, or love a niece or nephew.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Or it's great, or to say I will support.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You in raising your children. You're welcome to do that.
But as I've just said, because I think the pressure
falls a lot on the immediate parents, I think ultimately
that decision needs to be their okay, because there's also
health issues.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean to play devil's
advocate as you were. What if it's your partner who's
commenting on like but I want kids and you don't
want or you're not on the same page essentially.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah, I mean typically you try to do that before you,
like partner up or you know, get married.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
How people do do they though conversations?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's compromise, right, Like you can be like I'm having
a kid in like ten years and then the partners
like I want tomorrow. Like you have to come to
like a bridging point because then often that leads to
like complete separation if you can't come.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I feel like for people who are like undecided or
someday it's a bit. But there are some people who
are clear nose. Yeah, And I think unfortunately with the
way things are set up, the people who are clear
nose or clear yes is with a clear no person,
you probably have to, as Rob said, talk about it
(17:43):
at length before marriage because if your feelings are not
going to change of no no kids or yes kids
with a no kids person, yeah, it can definitely lead
to a lot of bumping heads.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
And resentment and you hold onto the hope they will
change their mind. You never will, or then.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
You get trapped.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You like them basketball players, you know what I mean?
So I think it's only fair. It's not fair if
you know and mislead the other person.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, vice versa. Yeah. And I think speaking on that,
you know, trapping because you talked about the pressure to procreate,
some people do feel pressure to my kid would get better,
would do better. So then obviously they try to put
position themselves in that way if I marry a basketball
player or if I get a kid by a basketball player,
(18:33):
for life. But just sad, very sad.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And how do you feel like this notion of legacy
or inheritance?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Is it outdated? Do you feel like we hold it?
We put too much legacy? Legacy? Who's that? Jay z?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Someone said, how is mental health or financial whilst like
playing its part or living away from your village. You
know it takes a village to raise a child. How
is that all playing a part?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Like?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Are we all legacy our future generations? Are surnames going
on for generations to come?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I definitely think we do put a lot of weight.
And I think living in despert for me especially, has
shown me your family does not have to be blood.
So because of that thinking, it's like then legacy and
inheritance and you could be killing yourself. I mean both
(19:28):
of us have you know, parents with farms, killing yourselves
getting these farms. But do we want to now be
on your farm? So it's like I feel like before
it was always assumed in a family business, you carry
it on assume, I shume assume. But now we're living
in a world people are open, people are exposed to
other ideas. So I think the idea that what you're
(19:49):
doing now in twenty twenty four, twenty five will be
relevant in twenty forty twenty forty five.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
For your years is yeah, it's might not be. And
also I think to that point around legacy, it's also changed,
right because the way and I speak from a millennial standpoint,
we are now also taking care of our parents, right,
so there's an onus on us to sort of do
(20:15):
a lot more for our parents in an economic climate
that is not what it was when our parents were
at their peak, you know, earning stage. So sometimes it's.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Like I need to help them.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And because coming from a country like Zimbabwe where the
economy is trash, you really have to step up, and
then now you have to raise children at the same time.
Sometimes you're like and provide for other people's children exactly,
it's not balancing. So you're like, yo, like do you
want me to have kids? But it's not balancing. I'm
not going to get that support. Yeah, you know, the
village support. I'm supporting you.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Actually, matter of fact.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And then I have to take care of a child,
keep myself saying, whilst also keeping a relationship going and
also a career thriving.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
So I can for all this, yes, And I think
we've realized that that village costs money, Like you can't
have it naturally, so the only way to try to
obtain it is to pay right. And I feel like
it's just it's such a confronting thought that you want, Okay,
you want to go on a date night to get
a babysitter. What are you doing? But you're not going
(21:20):
to able to be like, oh, mom, dad, come and babysit,
you know. So it's like all these things that our parents,
for example, would take for granted are serious things we
have to have.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
To consider consider And you know, if things were better,
you'd almost have the support of them saying I will
you know, take care of or I will help set
up that trust for your child.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I will.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
But it's not like that, not like we're not fortunately no.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
No, we're not at that level yet. We might, we're
striving to be, but definitely a lot of things pull
us back. And even visas right because you know, like
even if my parents want to come here and help,
I'm like, okay, do I get them at three month visa?
That's the only one that's like freely availed or not
freely but easily available. And you're thinking, but it's only
(22:06):
three months, that's gonna go. Like when you're taking care
of a kids, you want someone for years for sure,
you know. So it's like even in that, then looking
at the investment of like those year visas is like
the cost so it's like so prohibitive. Even if you
do have people who were willing and can be that village, yes,
it ends up coming down to money.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And then how does it feel for you as a
mom when you see other people with their village. And
that's something that I don't think we really talk about,
where you see people who maybe have never had the
experience of being separated from community, and they automatically. For me,
it was when I was a teacher and I would
(22:46):
see grandparents come, like like grandparents from the mom's side
coming to drop off in the morning, or the.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Grandparents on the dad's side coming to.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Pick up in the afternoon, showing up for plays, the
mom coming this time, like just that rotation and that
closeness and cousins and proximity, and you see that things
we were fortunate to have growing up that have now standard.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, how do you feel, Oh, there's how the heartbreak
you feel. Like as the day care which Jerome goes to,
they have grandparents day and you come and read, and
the heartbreak you feel when your kid doesn't ask someone
to represent them. Then you think, okay, do I go,
but I'm not a grandparent. And then you know, like
its thankfully with Australia being so full of migrants, you
(23:35):
know your kid is not the only one. There's going
to be another kid there and they're probably gonna sit
there in solidarity as the kids who don't have grandparents.
But it's still heartbreaking. You know. There's a different heartbreak
of course for those who don't have grandparents at all,
but when you do have them, but they're not there.
There's also a heartbreak for that where it's like I
couldn't even you know, try and to facilitate this, you know,
(24:00):
and then you hold on to the little moments and
you go visit family or so. I feel like people
don't know how good they have it, yes, until you
know how good you have it, you know what I mean,
until you hear someone else saying how are you handling this?
Like they're going on and on about oh my mom
can only do pick up and not this, and I'm like, well,
at least she's there, you know. And it's hard to
have those conversations with people right and not sound bitter.
(24:22):
But you're not bitter. You're just talking stating fats you
know that. Oh for me, it's completely set up differently.
Is that privilege?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Privilege that sometimes you're not aware of until you're aware
of Like someone else says, oh that's not normal for me.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah yeah yeah. And then like even when you're talking
about people commenting on whether to give a sibling or not,
you're like, well, I want them to be in touch
with their German or Zimbabwean side. That's going to cost yes.
So now it's like either I give them a sibling
or and they never see their actual other family. Yeah,
and not to mention the fact that, you know, do
you actually want another child in the house, but even
(24:58):
just the logistics and nancers around that, and people talk
to you as if you've not considered it. You're like people.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I really think people move around in this world thinking
that them saying to you, oh, you better have a
kid soon because you know, like time is running out,
Like you do not know.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
That, yeah, and like I have thought about that, and
this is how And I feel like also there's this
whole trench mentality, whether it's to have kids or not
have kids, where it's like I've made this decision, you
make the same as me, So you know, yeah, together
no sense.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But you ain't gonna be up at one am. But
that's a topic for another day. And so with blended
families now more common in modern society, or other forms
of parenting like fostering, adoption, black tax, which really is
like raising other people, you know, kids, taking care of
other family members and so on and so forth, is
(25:53):
there a need to have kids of our own given
this plethora of responsibility that we've been well endowed with
and blessed in our modern society.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
You know, practically, I probably say, no, you don't need
to write. I'm sure there's lots and lots of kids
that need loving homes. Yes, But I think it's going
back to your point. There's something innate in us to
have your own if possible. So I think that's why
we always revert to it. You know, people who do
(26:22):
end up adopting or fostering or bonus moms or you know,
it's almost happens. Thats like it just happens, or after
they've had a few of their own and they think, oh,
I really like doing this, they now look into other
But our first point of call is always your own.
And I don't know if that's a genetic trying to
(26:42):
keep your own genes going or it's but yeah, there's
no need, there's no need.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
But I do think the fact that we've come from
the Stone Age or Adam and Eve, whatever you believe,
to this point, and we continue to create, I think
it speaks to the non logical aspect of us as humans.
I think we over intelligize, if that's a word, Like,
we really look at ourselves as really educated and informed,
(27:12):
but we often ignore the sort of animalistic sense, the
primal aspects of ourselves, which is relationship and the need
for relation, and that we are wired to want to
have these connections. And I think, you know, speaking on
our other episode on the Internet and connection, I think
(27:35):
we do desire that human one on one interaction, even
though the society makes it feel like we don't need it.
So ultimately, I think that decision sometimes doesn't make logical
sense because I've been pondering this, like why do we
have kids?
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Why do we want kids? Why do I want kids?
Do I want kids?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
How can I have kids?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
But I think ultimately sometimes the answer isn't logical, and
I think sometimes try to over complicate and analyze the
decision that comes from it. It's just something that something
that is is yeah, And it's scary because humans we
always want the reason but why?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
But why?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But and science has told us that we always need
to know the why why why?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And so I.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Think if you feel it in you that maybe I
could be a parent, or I think this would be nice,
or if you fall into it, sometimes right, it's like
then you're just forced into that. But I think if
for you, centuries we've continued it's like it's.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Like why but then also why not right? Not?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, but it's fun being an aunt. Yes, I enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I still enjoy being more of an aunt than the moment.
It was a lot of fun, but it was also
fun being a mom. Like, there's definitely some aspects of
it where I'm like, you know, you get to be
a kid again, you get to the things you sustress about.
Now I'm just like, so chill, Yeah, I'm sure you know.
I don't know. It's just it. But having said that's
(29:05):
my journey, there's some people who find it highly strong,
highly strong, highly so it's such a thing because, as
are saying at the top of the episode, if people
know now would they But honestly, you can't or probably
can't without that village we spoke of, yeah, to make
it work anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, I don't know if this conversation helped you decide
whether or not you want to have kids. If you do,
it might be too late. If not, good luck. But
I think it's just.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
And you can also be rich anti vibes. Where nothing
wrong with that. Every kid needs to be spoilt. Yes, yes, yes,
I think you know. Look, if you're rich anti vibes
or whatever. Not having kids and you worry for your future,
thinking you'll be alone, invest on those relationships. True, that's actually,
you know, there's lots of kids out there who do
(29:53):
want that connection. And again, family is not always blood,
so there's avenues to enjoy communit unity without actually and
sometimes I am very envious of people slapping in, so
enjoy it. Definitely. Thank you, Thank you everyone, Thank you
so much for tuning in. At you on the next episode. Bye,
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