June 15, 2025 • 51 mins
For this episode, we got to sit down with multi-hyphenate rapper / singer / lawyer / voice actor, Simba Mak. While we are celebrating women and our soft-era, we felt it important to get a man’s perspective on life and its complexities.
Simba sat down with us to talk about his journey from Zimbabwe to Australia, the acknowledgement that nobody is self-made, and the complexities of creative duality and how he juggles that.
Keep up with Simba and all he’s up to:
Instagram: @itssimbamak
We had the pleasure of recording this season at Bittersweet Studios (@bittersweet.studios_)
The gorgeous set up for this season was done by the amazing Pink Lady Picnics: (@pinkladypicnics)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I feel like men a lot of times they
(00:03):
get thankless jobs. Yeah, you know, and they don't get praised,
they don't get acknowledged for the roles they play in
their family's lives.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I was like, on paper, a perfect candidate. She
walks in oppositions and Nigerian next, and they're like no.
I was like, no, why why? Because there's a Columbian downstairs.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Why I can't understand men are not transparent around the
experience the realities of being in the diaspora and the
journey of my grating. And I'm so glad that you
opened up about so many aspects of that journey.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And then I started to ask myself, am I really
the sum of solely my mother's contribution?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Mom always always they careful.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Hi, I'm a Panda and I'm Romby. Welcome to Slayered Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
We're under the Black Hoss Network powered by iHeart recording
in studio today in Malbezy.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You trying to get them out disy, but yeah, we're
here in Bittersweet Studio with our lovely setup done by
the Pink Lady Picnic.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, You've been laughing even before we press record because
we have an amazing guest for you today.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Someone is very very excited about who do we have
to day?
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Be Okay, we've got Simba in the building.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But wait before we before we welcome, Welcome, we want
to let the people know who you are so they
know that they need to come.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So we're trying to do over here, all right, So
I'm gonna read out your bio. No pressure, but the
pressure slick like Harvey Spector, but raps with the best
of them. Lawyer turned rapper Simba Mac traded his suit
and Hi, you can see he's rocking a suited.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
He's looking so good if you're not watching online. Good.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
He overstood the assignment his STUDENTAI career for a career
in music, so he's based in Melbourne where he's practiced
as a lawyer. Simber Mac is an artist who has
always embraced duality, particularly when it pertains to career and vocation.
His music articulates his life's journey from Zimbabwe to Australia
and exploring everyday themes that relate to anybody with a
(02:28):
desire to dream in spite of their background. Can I
get an a man on that bio? Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
welcome a.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Is not even touching half the things that you have done,
like so inspirational. We love like I've known you obviously
when you know someone personally, but you also see them professionally.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And ever since I saw you perform Anyway two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You it's literally it's insane that the power you have
on stage.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Appreciate that like it's a.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
God given talent. And to see you now years later
still it makes my heart single joy literally because it's
like I mean, Rumby and I are always supporting creatives always,
especially from Zimbaba, because we know how much there's an
extrud to Max. So to see you still doing your
thing and doing it brilliantly, kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean, I think it's I think a lot has
to be said to I guess where we come from.
It's a big thing, right, So community has always been major, right,
Like no one's ever self made, that's a myth, right,
So we're all a combination of a culmination of everyone
that's sort of poured into us one way or another. Right,
So that's one thing. But God you knows as a
(03:51):
foundation for all of that, you know, And then I
think the perspective that we've had because before we've come
from right, that adversity, right, and and having that perspective
of like the resilience we've we've had to endure together,
what was poured into us, not knowing where we'd be,
that we just be put on plane one day, you
know, and our parents saying for the best, sending us to
(04:12):
countries they've never been to. Yeah, and saying we hope
we've done enough for you to figure it out, but
don't humiliate us then embarrasses and remember the struggle you've left,
what we sacrifice for you to be in that position. Yeah.
So every time we've gone through things, we've always had
that as sort of like a measuring stick to say, well,
(04:33):
have we stayed where we were compared to what we're
having to endure where we are now? You know? Are
we better off back home or we better off in
this appearance of an advanced strengthle you know. And that
and then having that community of peers around you at UNI,
for example, cheering you on or hating on you or
(04:53):
whatever it is. But you're all in it together, right, true,
and they look like you on some level you can
identify with a collective struggle you know what I mean.
So when one suffers, you moan together. When one celebrates,
it inspires you. Whether it's through envy or jealousy or
genuine celebration, it causes you to look in the mirror
and really assess, am I fulfilling what my parents sacrificed
(05:18):
so much for me? Yeah, we all helped each other.
So even even you guys doing what you're doing that
this is inspirational because same deal, because you laugh about
it because at Uni, our parents were like, you know,
make sure you focus on your studies, can get that
bands because no one really makes money off that back right,
(05:40):
And our parents didn't have a lot of the advantages
we have of like you know, accessing you know, private
school or really decent education that allows you to qualify
to you know, come to a university in a foreign
country based off our grades back in Zimbabwe. So so
for them, their way of us advancing is by them
(06:00):
giving us what they didn't have, because they think that's
leveling up, right. But then another thing that they don't
always appreciate or the blind spot for them is we're
different generation. But then we've also been thrust into a
different world Unlike this is so the amount of adjustment
required and attention to nuance to just even survive in
(06:25):
this new space, which for which were the first generation, right,
is something they will never understand. And for us to
be in a position where we can now sit here
and not have sub stories but victories, but we can
also share the journey of the struggles until we got
to this point, right, it just changes the whole day.
Like because I can give you an example, like when
(06:48):
so so when when I headlined new y z here
in Melbourne, right, find like tens.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Of thousands of people just dropping that casually.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It was crazy, Right, So I just finished, We just
finished settling. Like I was in a class action team
for a really big firm. We just set of like
the largest settlement in Australian legal history at the time, right,
And I was like thirty at the time, and I
was just sitting in my office thinking, man, like I've
just like piacked so early, and by then I had
achieved it. I needed to do help Mom, got my
(07:21):
brothers through high school in union and all that stuff.
And I had sacrifices really like my whole life, so
I could do that whilst I was here, which is
the point of me coming. So I was like, I
wanted to do something for myself, and I really wanted
to pursue music. But then the challenge I had was,
you know, I was living this dual career situation where
I had to provide for my family, right, So the
law thing was paying the bills. But then I was
(07:43):
a gospel rapper at the time in church, right, so
you're performing for souls, you know, to you know, preach
the gospel and all that kind of stuff. So that's
sharpening your skills, but it's not paying the bills. So
I really wanted to really have an opportunity to pursue
my music because I felt like like that was my
care you know, my vocation, and law was my career.
(08:04):
Music and entertainment was my vocation. And there's a difference
between the two, right, your career, like people go to university,
they can learn how to do that, you know, they
acquire skill, you know, but your vocation it's God given,
you know. The most anyone can do is if you
have it, you have it, you can just polish it
and make it better. But if you don't have it,
there's nothing you can look about it. Right, So I
knew that with a career because so many people can
(08:26):
qualify to be a lawyer, right, Yeah, I can only
negotiate my true value up to a certain degree based
on what the general populace of doing. So unless I
own a law firm, I have to fit within a
brackt in theories, right, however, with my vocation, because people
can't be taught to do exactly what you're described in
the beginning, right, Read a crowd, whether it's twenty people,
(08:49):
ten thousand people, one hundred thousand people, and determine how
you're going to adjust the flow of energy so they're
receptive to what you do. That's something that's just like
God give me. And because you've that particular skill set, right,
that then allows you to actually demand a value because
people now want to pay for the Symbermac experience. They
want to pay, you know, for the room experience, their
(09:10):
mand experience, right, and they can't get it anywhere else, right,
which is why Chris Brown can charge wady charges, why
can charge word charges, right. And lawyers have to pay
whatever they want to and they can always negotiate with
the lawyer because there's always a cap on their value.
But there isn't a cap on 's value. There's an
a cap on Chris Brown's value. So I always understood that.
So I always want to explore that the entrepreneur and
(09:31):
me always wanted to see what that looked like. And
I was like, well, I'm kind of a good place
with my legal career. It's a nice time to do something.
And even if I were to fail, I'm going to
fail forward, but I've said enough for a foundation to
come back into law. Yeah, So I explained it to
my mom. I had to have a blessing, right because
you have single moms, you know, you know zim moms too,
(09:54):
So so did that and then what happened was so
fast forward about within about a year and a half.
What happened was that the fact that I was a
lawyer allowed me to jump a lot of steps. So
I got put on like main stages because I was coming.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
For background, so they you knew how to happen.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well. I definitely was carrying myself a certain way, energy
and confidence about me. But at the same time, like
it takes somebody that's either delusional or knows what they're
doing to leave a corporate situation uncomfortable, but to embark
into something that could possibly resulting you not earning anything
(10:38):
an idiot of yourself. So if people know you've come
from a successful situation, they're more likely than not to
give you a shot with your next venture because you've
done what most people perceive as the hard. Yes, right,
so they're like, Okay, shouldn't take them too much to
be able to rock his stakes? Yeah, you know what
I mean. So I just had to sell the image
(10:58):
right to at least give me an She needs to
be on stage saying fast forward New Yar's Eve happens.
I'm on stage right, and I'm headlining the whole thing, right,
do the fireworks for the whole city whatever. Right. And
then as I'm performing, right, because a lot of my
music's autobiographicals by my mom are struggling all yourself and
my journey, you know, because I love to inspire people, right,
(11:19):
that's what it's about. I'm thinking to myself, like, I
need to do three or four of these, and I
need to fly mom over because she couldn't. She accepted
the fact that I needed to do it because I'm
general right by her, But.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
At the same time she's just like, yeah, yeah, my
son is nice. I'm still going to say quiet this
so what unbeknownst to me? Right, So so at the
end of like the concert whatever, So Citium Melbourne was
involved in it because it was a Federation square and stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Right, So my team come up to me and they're like, yo,
someone from city speak to you. So I'm just like
ship yeah, right, And because then you can't really you know,
touch on religion or you'll be careful is such a
public space. So I was thinking to myself, now we're
so thorough about it, like we spent six months curating
the show for a whole hour, Like now we knew
(12:15):
what we do. How could I have gone anything? Who
did I offend? So anyway, I go to the back dances.
Everyone's at the back there, you know, the band or whatever,
just like looking all somber and stuff. I'm trying to
boost people's morale, Like, guys, do you understand what we just? Do?
You know what I mean? Like, there's there's no there's
a blueprint on how to be a lawyer. There's a
blueprint on how to be an engineered. There's a blueprint this.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Stuff, Like there is no blueprint.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, we brought this into fruition based off a dream
that no one believed in, Like who would have thought, right?
And then everyone's just like yeah, yeah, it's like come on,
clap people like And then corner my eye, I see
my mom just walking. She was in the concert the
whole I had no idea. In fact, we had such
a bad sound check. I called her and I was like,
Mom and my buddy umiliated myself in front of the
(12:57):
whole of Melbourne, and I'm gonna probably need to go
back on my tailing between my legs and pay for
my job back. And I was just like, baby, I'm
on my way to work, I'm busy, I'll talk to you.
And I was just like this.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
For me, right, yeah, when I need it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Mo.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
She's like, okay, it's one of those I told you
some moments. But seeing her right and knowing that this
was probably the pen ultimate in terms of experiences for
me right, having pulled this off right, that all just
erased my man. I forgot where I was, it didn't matter.
Tears and then my mom was crying and we like
crawled to each other. I wasn't find everybody right and
(13:34):
were just crying. Yeah, and then my mom just came
and embraced me. And said I couldn't believe it was
my you're my son, like and she was crying the
whole time, saying I was just repenting to God, saying
I did not know that you had this gift in you,
you know. And I used to spend two hours in
the toilet when I was nine, and I got this lyric.
I'm like, like, let me take you back to nineteen
eighty five. Barbara gave birth to this fat little guy.
(13:57):
She called him beloved, She called him somebadashi. But Daddy
looked at me. I said, he's probably gonna make it.
I remember sitting on the toilet seat age now with
my pen and pat trying to run my very first ramp,
My knocking at the door, thinking I'm out of my mind.
To me, I'm doing homework. To her, I'm wasting time.
You give me so like so that just came just
it's crazy, but like to you remember that moment, you know,
and it's like it just it all made sense. Yeah,
(14:20):
So even my dad not even being in my life,
like that was all the validation I ever needed. And
then everything just sort of like the world became It
made sense to me, made sense to her why she
had this weirdo you know kid, but you know, like
you know, glory to God, like you know, I had
a lot of friends, people like you family, you know,
(14:40):
to just keep me accountable to my to my vocation
and to my career along the way.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
So yeah, you touched on so many things. We can
we can we can, we can dive into. But I
would love to talk on this aspect of you being
Zimbabweing right and especially as a man. Do you find
it hard like that duality you're talking about where you know,
we've already gotten a picture of how you kind of
(15:05):
have this belief even from a young age that you
wanted to make music, but it was kind of like, ah,
you know, you're a lawyer, you know, but truly going
an unconventional profession. And I think to our listeners, Simba's description,
I think gives a good idea of how complex it
is doing unconventional things if you come from a Zimbabwean background.
(15:29):
So what was the hardest part for you or do
you think the goal was so much bigger that you
never saw it as hard to pursue you know, music
as well as you know you did law.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
You did what she needed to do.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But do you understand what I'm saying, Like, like or
was a goal just that much more of a motivator
that the hardship was, Like, Okay, it's part of it,
but the goal is so much bigger and that's what
I want to do. And what advice would you give
someone who understands your struggle and is like, I want
to do that, but I have this dichotomy of like,
(16:03):
I need to provide for my family, but I also
feel this calling to do what I was called to do.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah. Look, that's such a brilliant question, and it's such
a loaded question, so many ways you can sort of
tackle it. Perhaps I'll use maybe a bit of an
unconventional sort of response. Okay, so I'll look at it
from this point of view. So pretty much for the
majority of my life, I've always heralded and praised my
single mom, right for the sacrifices she made, right for
(16:33):
myself and my two younger brothers. Right, But my dad
passed away in April this year, and we didn't have
much of a relationship to say the least, right, And
I never ever gave that man credit for anything. Yeah,
and it was only maybe about a month or so ago.
(16:56):
I ever really posted about him. And it took a
lot because in spite of what I'd gone through being
able to be successful, in spite of you know, him
being an absentia for a big significant part of my life,
there's still that resentment and then unforgiveness. Right, So naturally
(17:17):
I try to be the optimist and focus the attention
of my mom, who did the positive things in my eyes, right,
But answer your question, I'm about to be a dad, right.
So on Father's Day I realized, like, that's when I
broke down for the first time. So my dad died.
I didn't cry or anything, you know, because I just
had so much anger anyway towards him. On Father's Day
(17:39):
it just hit me that, you know, I want to
be dead, And I was like, would I ever want
my child to never want ter have a relationship with me?
And that made me break down. Then the regrets started
sitting in. Then you go on this path, it can
be dark, but it's very reflective at the same time.
And then I started to ask myself, really, the sum
(18:01):
of solely my mother's contribution, what did this man pour
into me? Right? Because I look at my siblings, I
look at me. We built different they've been raised solely
by my mom. I at least save my first seven
years of my life for my mom and my dad, right,
actually eight years. Now. Here's the thing when I think
(18:26):
of my upbringing. My dad was so intentional about my upbringing.
So the first thing he said is you're going to
be an international statement. My mom looked at him, like
you're crazy, and my dad said, he's going to master
the Queen's English. He's not going to speak shun her
the first seven years of his life. He's going to
(18:46):
master English because he needs to learn that skill so
he can conquer wherever he ends up in the world.
My grandparents, who barely could speak a word, had to
learn how to speak to me because I couldn't speak
to him. Right. I only started and Shauna because it
was compulsory because of school, you know. And even with
that I got to excel. But having a mastery in English, right,
(19:08):
and then having to go to the schools that we
went to amongst white people, my dad just gave me
this sense of like equal, you get what I'm saying,
Even an equal like that, I was superior, Like I
was always the smartest person, even if I wasn't like
you give me a sense of you've got enough ego
to give it a go, and even if you fail,
(19:31):
you got enough ego to try yet. Right, So having
that is a foundation right in my mental blueprint, right
like or my mental DNA R gave me this this
insurmountable sense of.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
I can do any anything.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And then now that combined with my mom now taking
me to church and stuff and watching her overcome what
she did in a patriarchal society as the matriarch in
the family where she's not designed to thrive, right, and
she did kept us in private school. Mama was a
receptionist when we're at Hartman Urson Saint George's, was able
(20:08):
to keep me in there, right, But then the endurance
and she never gave us an excuse. My dad went
to jail so many from the bank you worked for.
Right when I was she's like nine years away. That
was public knowledge. And you imagine to go to school,
and then I was going to Saint George's, right, and
I was like one of maybe a handful of guys
(20:30):
would go to school in public transport Macombe, you know,
and you know that driveway is a long right, and
then everyone's like looking at she likes. Right, So you're
like the poor school, poorest kid at the richest school,
and you have to go and sit there every day.
And I remember we used to live in Zada Circle
(20:50):
for a while, right, So like but you know, like
an like you know, like like a dryer right to
dry clothes. So the maid who washed you know, like
our clothes with their hands, right then hang among the
clothes line, right. But we didn't have like an electric stove,
so we cook outside with like, you know, firewood, so
the smoke was going to of course clothes. And then
(21:12):
you get into the next and guys are like, yeah,
why are you smile like that? You know where you're
coming from or whatever, you know, So dealing with that.
But then even with that, like I always remember, like
my mom's struggle, I always remember my dad told me
I was right. See even at Saint Georgie's. I was
president at Tourstmasters by Lower six, you know what I'm saying,
Like all of these things, I was a prefect both
(21:33):
at Harmanas and I just I didn't I had this
relentless drive right to just go, go, go, go go.
And because you didn't have much money and all that
kind of stuff. I had to find creative ways to
spend my time. Then it was either God, church or music,
you know, poetry, whatever. So I was always exploring those things,
(21:54):
plus my academics and then sports and arts and all
that kind of stuff. So I always had that constantly,
like as a running thing throughout all. Right, So my
mom would just be too busy to tell me not
to do certain things, you know what I mean, as
long as I was like kicking goals and yeah, she's
like whatever, I don't know what he's doing or whatever.
So even coming to us like I had to be
(22:15):
so you know, there had to be so much ingenuity
in the way. I even thought of how that leaves me, yes,
because we don't even have money. My mom was like, well,
it is what it is. But I had faith from
God and I always knew got to call me to
be president of Zimbabwe one day, right, So I was like,
this can't be the end and I can't just go
to use it. There's nothing wrong with that. But then
(22:37):
Dad prepped me knowing at some point in my life
I was going to have to go oversea to go
master and learn certain things so I can come back
home and you know, help my people. Right, So I
was like, nah, So I wrote a letter to tendor
the wealthies businessmen I knew back home, to see someone
responds to me. Yeah, went to see them all. The
tenth guy saw everyone knocked me back. The tenth guy
(22:58):
I saw said, okay, leave in your dream and pay
for my first semester so I could get a visa
to just come in to Australia. Then my mom's sold
a card to pay for my plane ticket, gave me
a few hundred bucks to start up. That's how I
ended up in Australia, right, And then I had to
work four jobs pretty much concurrently, just so I could
pay my school fees and all that, just to get
by and stuff like that. So what when when you
facing that kind of adversity, right, for a lot of
(23:22):
people that don't have anything to counter it with. We
grew up around black lawyers, black doctors, black garbage collectors
or whatever. Right, So whatever adversity I was going to
go through here, I had something to counter it with
because of what I saw in my what I was,
what I was immersed in back home. Yeah, you know,
which is so so I didn't have to permanently code switch. Yes,
(23:46):
compared to a kid who's born here, it doesn't have
anything to challenge when they told a black kid that
your race, you're you know, you're black, or you're not,
you're only worth this much or whatever. And then you're
the society or the institutions condition you to that you
need to code switch to white, to free, not just
to fit in, but just to have a chance to
(24:06):
make it right. And and we we were told you
can be all of these things because we've seen that.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
And that's actually something we don't talk enough about, I think,
is how we have that privilege of having seen, you know,
black people succeed in their own country.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We don't have to worry about race, Okay, So it's
it's normalized. So when someone tells you you can't do
it here, you're like, what are you talking about? My dad?
Is this? My mom? And my AUNTI is this? It's
not even that far removed, you know what I mean.
I'm here, I'm juggling full time, juggling full time UNI,
(24:46):
and I'm thriving at both. So what's what's the right?
What's all of these things? So you learn how to
be duality or being a trifecta of skills, like you
have to be like what about is all things to
all men? You know? And even when you're in this space,
it's not it's not good enough as a black person
to just be good at one thing, right. You don't
(25:08):
get to get into corporate just being good on one thing, right.
You gotta be good at the thing that everyone else
is good at it. Then you want to show them
why you're special because because for a lot of people,
you're the first version of your complexion they ever seen
in that space. Definitely take like you gotta you got
a Nelson Mandel, Do you know what I'm saying? And
(25:31):
that's not because so that you can thry, so you
can keep the door open.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
For the next Yeah, the amount of times I go
to meetings on my PA and they greet my pa,
I am you are the paps. And also she's an
older white lady and she now gets the point where
she kind of loves it. She knows it's gonna happen,
Like she's like, no, that's Amanda. Yeah, I don't even
(25:55):
like one guy, I literally like muscle this way past
me to come and greet her.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
That's crazy, Like no, it's like, you know, they've just
never seen that. And also with that, right, then comes
the thing of like you have to also condition yourself
to understand you can't as offensive as certain things. Maybe
you cannot operate from a place of emotion no, right,
because you got to understand nuance right, because there's there's
(26:20):
a difference, and we all learned this. Right. You don't
get a playbook of how to thrive in this situation, right.
Our parents didn't know how to do it. We're the
first ones to try it out, right, But the wise
ones of us figured out that we have to make
a decision whether we want to be right or whether
we want to win pick one, because when you start winning,
(26:41):
you can afford to be right. Sometimes when you choose
to be right, you seldom can afford to wait if
you don't control the system in place. Right, So we're
trying to be in there and to normalize our presence
in a lot of these spaces where us being there's
a foreign concept or unlikely and things like this still
happen to this, you know, but.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's exhausting, But we do open avenues for other people.
I remember the first time, I mean at my workplace,
I was the first black woman. And then we did
another round of interviews for like it was just not
a like an entry level job, and this Nigerian lady
applied and she said, look, I've raised my three girls.
(27:22):
Now I'm an empty nest, so all I want is
just a job until I retire. So this is perfect
for me. And I was like, on paper, a perfect candidate.
She walks in obviously shows a Nigerian accent.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
They're like no.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I was like, no, why why because there's a Columbian downstairs.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Why can't understand?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
But like, y'all think she's cute, so that's why, you know,
And I had to challenge them. I thought, you know what,
this is probably the reason why you do open the doors,
you said, for others to come through.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
And she's apisolutely brilliant type of kills it because she
has that purpose because she's.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Like, you know, I'm at home, I'm all alone. My
job is my social network. And now they all love her.
But it took that like jumping into that known for
them because they were like, oh, we can't get past
the accent. And in fact, she's speaking English again you
can all hear what she's saying.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, you know, you know, that's interesting, that's that's such
a valid point. So firstly to your point about being tied, right,
there is a degree of exhaustion, right. And and the
thing is like, even amongst ourselves, right, sometimes you can
be so embarrassed even to discuss amongst ourselves what we're
struggling with, because we always want to appear strong, because
that's what you know, keep up appearances, right.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Because that's what our parents did to be fair.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
To be fair, that's a form of codes because you're
not being real, but she's being what's necessary for the moment.
But some of us don't uncode switch back to reality,
and that's where the stress comes, that's where the frustration comes,
that's where the unrealistic expectations come, and that's where the
very realistic disappointment comes. Right. And if we have more
(28:53):
of these discussions amongst ourselves and also acknowledge and also
make it, make people aware of it. And because we've
done well all right, we're probably the best candidates to
actually broke discussions like racism that way. We're not coming
from an emotional stand true, because we have a right
to you, but we want to win this discussion and
we don't want to win the argument and lose the person.
(29:14):
So we will never come from a place of emotion,
will come from a place.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Of intellect, said like a true lawyer.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Yeah, very very diplomatic.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
We see, we see why you do what you do,
like you do want it for TV?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, but you feel me right like, no, I get
it at the end of the day, right, because people
always they rush to racism, and yes, but that's a
very simplistic way of putting it. And you know what,
to somebody where to whom it's happening to, it makes sense. Yeah, right,
But then there is this thing about racism right where
it's like colonization back in the day, you know, Britain
(29:48):
could go in and invade a country and do what
they wanted. Right now they get to do it to
multinational companies. In fact, it's an evolutionary version of colonization, right,
all right, And there's that's it's a long story, but
there's the reason why we're all here and not at all, right,
but that's a different discussion together. They're calling us out nice,
(30:09):
But what I will say, though, what I will say
is that racism's version of that is classes and when
it evolves, right, So then it becomes this thing where
racism shouts classes and whispers. Right, So racism shouts offense,
classes and whispers offense, and it's designed specifically to be
targeted at the person it's supposed to undermine and keep down.
(30:32):
And then because it's whispered, only that person hears it.
And then when they say it out loud, because no
one else hears it, no one else, it might not happen.
And that it didn't happen, it couldn't have happened. So
sometimes racism is a preferred thing because it can actually
it puts things on the table that can be dealt.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Have you watched Origin, a movie by Ava currently on Netflix.
I'm telling everybody to watch.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
This Australian Netflix.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
That's yeah, on European European Netflix.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
But if we got it on the European Netflix, I'm
sure it's come to it or it will come. But basically,
she's challenging this notion of we always quick to say
everything's racism, but then her as you talk classism, I
think it's very true. We had an episode on classism
if you haven't really listened to it, but also cost system.
But it's all about you know, putting someone else down
(31:24):
to you know, put yourself. And I think we need
to realize that the conversations around discrimination are very nuanced
and we can't always just leave it to race, and
with things like classism and cost systems. It also challenges
you because it happens between people who look the same
of the same nationality, same race. And we don't like
(31:46):
that because it makes us feel like, oh so you know,
and if you think about it in that perspective, it's uncomfortable, right,
So you you Bridge, you speak a very good point.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
But the thing is, the thing about race isn't them
which is And I love your points, they're so on
point racism. Think about it. It actually gives you a
cheat cut. If you're successful and rich, you get to
enter into this is. You get us set at the
table classes in no matter how successful you are, exactly
like you will remind you of who you are.
Speaker 7 (32:20):
Fact, you're not part of the origin families, this situation,
you know what I mean, through the cracks and the
system whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
So to me, the exhaustion in having to more often
than not be the only person in these rooms where
there's high pressure expectations to perform or whatever and bite
your tongue right for the sake of whoever might come
after you, for your survival, for your ability to thrive,
(32:52):
takes a massive toll that nobody that doesn't look a
certain way hasn't gone through. What we want to think
about it. We're like, what, seven thousand miles eleven thousand
kilometers away from the place who were born, and we've
been that way for the last two decades with no supervision.
(33:14):
How do you end up like this? There has to
be something in the water where there's cultural discipline, whatever
it is, back home, because there's just way too many
of us that have come from that situation of abject
poverty or something or whatever, and we're just thrust into
this situation, put on planes to come here. Have made it. Yeah,
(33:36):
if we were to flip the script with kids born here,
the resilience.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
We're not there.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
We're cut from a different apologetic about that, and there's
something to be celebrated about us even surviving here. But
we've thrived.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Thank you for saying that, Because I think this rhetoric
around millennials of a matching our parents' success and all
this it's very loud, right, but I think The way
you've kind of put it is that think about where
we came from and the odds we faced that are
on a completely different playing field too. You know a
(34:16):
lot of our peers who don't.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Have that, and the opportunity is not given. A lot
of times they won't tell you about the ground. Yeah
university are you land? You know, yeah, I'm working for
jobs to make It's not the same, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, the thing is because they gave your leg up.
And here's another thing. We we all majority of us
came here, right, So back home they'll think, oh, you know,
simple as in Australia. Yeah, right, okay, cool. But if
you think about it, the way things are supposed to
work from one generation to the next, right, You're supposed
(34:55):
to have compounding interests. You're supposed to be the benef
history of those that came before. Right. So for example,
like in my situation, fine, I found a way to
get myself here, right, But then I'm the first generation.
I'm what the first Italians were, the first grades were,
(35:16):
That's what I am, right, But then I'm not working
oft an inheritance from my parents. Big fact, I'm coming
here to something so I can pay a black time. Yes,
So I'm coming here to be a parent.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So I'm missing I don't when I look back at Younique,
it wasn't enjoyable to me. I had to fake. I
don't know if you guys even noticed that I was
working for jobs or whatever. Mind Roma got canceled five
times because I was behind on my school. You know
what I'm saying. It's like I supposed to be deported
five times over, like the Romance managers, like at least
is paying his rent on time whatever, and his grades
are decent. I'll try and keep it from the ball
(35:55):
from the bar, doesn't you know what I'm saying. But
then amongst your peers, you're also trying to hustle and
do these kind of thing. So when you think of
all of that stuff, and then we're starting at a
point where we've got to send money back, so we're
not even making like that forward stride we're supposed to
if we had said or kept all the money we're sending. Yeah, definitely, right,
(36:15):
So I get to start my family way later because
I had to raise my brothers and all that stuff. Right,
So that's all my But at the same time that
also forced me to push myself beyond what I was
willing to do for myself. Right, there was a benefit,
there's a bigger goal, yes, for sure. Right, but we
all we all struggle like in that respect, like having
(36:37):
to do those kinds of things. Right, So you're here
and your savings are necessarily up to power or whatever,
and you're at X age whatever, but it's you've paid
a black tast black Your life may actually realistically speaking
properly start with you being enjoying the fruits of your
labor maybe age.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
And then people are thinking about you been there for
thirty years, twenty years? What?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And then it's think about it's scary to post anything
on social because I can be interributed back home really
something nice whatever, eating you know, like and also the guilt.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Do notay even in a room be coming here and
we'll be just so frank even coming out with the podcast.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
But so the.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Podcast making myself and it's like people don't understand the satrifice, sacrifice.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
You're scared to let people know the work because listen,
we can go on and like there's so many things
touched on, so many.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
So late, but I.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
But I will say thank you, I know, we have
to wrap up now and time is running out, but
I think.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
It was very.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
It's been very important, I think hearing especially from a
male perspective. I think that's another thing, especially in our community,
men are not sparent around the experience the realities of
being in the diaspora and the journey of my grating.
And I'm so glad that you opened up about so
many aspects of that journey, as well as trying to
be a creative whilst also being a support system to
(38:15):
your family, especially back home and financially. Like, there's so
many layers to your life, to a lot of our
lives when we are trying to make it in this
new world we've been given.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
So I just want to say thank you for that,
for sharing that.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Clearly we need to have.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
Another conversation because clearly so much more.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I just had one question to ask you, and as
you were speaking about how you mastered the English language,
do you think that played the usual and you being.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
A lyricist, No one's got no one's got painted like that,
That's what I mean. Excited finish that thought. So so
when I was reflecting on it, right, I was like,
the only reason I got the the springboard right to
even have the mindset of God, to even have the
(39:05):
ability to identify things by a nuance or whatever, because
I had an advantage and a head start from anyone
else up against So even in schools, killing the white
kids English even here killed the white kids even and
mastering English because of the way the languages constructed helped
me learn languages like Latin and French. You know, you
(39:27):
know what I mean, Oh, I guess law.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
Yeah, even this is.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
A Saint George's like they used to.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
People like Latin people did I did not know that, Yeah,
you know, And then you got to do your you
know your sciences, you know, chemistry, biophysics or whatever, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
What I mean, like like you do it all right.
But then he gave me that, and I always and
for a long time. Yes, I did carry shame because
of what my dad did, you know, going to prison
on le style, but I also carried pride because of
our last name and what he did, what he represents,
all the stories they do about your uncles and stuff. Right,
So credit to my dad. May rest in peace, but
(40:06):
he puts such an incredible thing. And I feel like
men a lot of times they get thankless jobs, you know,
and they don't get praised, They don't get acknowledged for
the roles they play in their family's lives in nine
times out of ten, like what tends to be highlighted
is what they do wrong, you know. And I'm literally
(40:26):
an example of that, right well, my dad, you know.
And it's unfortunate that you know, it took that long
to realize that, right, But I'm glad I did anyway,
you know what I mean. But it also is helping
me deconstruct why I'm the way I am, why I'm
different from my brothers who only got raised with unconditional love.
My dad raised me with full on, intense discipline right
(40:48):
for the first half of my life when I was
in zim and then I had unconditional love for my
mom solely, right, but my brother's only got unconditional love.
We build different in was sometimes you need a man
because I don't think I don't listen to my mom
the way I would have. My dad put a sense
of reviewing. I'm not saying it's healthy extent to which
(41:11):
way where like, you know, you've got to get the
kid to get certain things done, and he put just
enough in me that when he was absent for the
rest of my life, those seven years were enough.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I mean, Ruby, I'm sure has seen it now even
with Jerome like I'll be like, I'm so comes through
and does what he needs to do it. So, I
mean this season, we were really trying to celebrate black women,
and but it was really important for us to have
you on because there is black men too, and I
think you don't have spaces that we always celebrate you,
(41:43):
so to have you on our podcast, but this episode
has been so special for us.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
And shout out to our brothers.
Speaker 6 (41:49):
Yes and.
Speaker 5 (41:53):
So good.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
I would this makes sense because I was, for the
most part of my life raised by a single woman, right.
I will tell you, as a man, I do have
a nuanced appreciation and perspective when it comes to women.
So because of what I saw my mom did right
as a single woman in that patriarchal society, when I
look at women, I know there's a lot of things
(42:17):
you do do way better than we could if it
were a civil parents a little louder for those. But
because I was there to see my mom, there's things
that I expect out of women that I'm like, nah,
you can do that I know what you're capable, I
know how strong you can be. Not for everyone, but
for a lot of you. There's that. So also want
(42:38):
to also send a message that there is that thing
that men do see, you know, and it is the
time for women to actually shine, you know what I mean.
And we are in a world now where it doesn't
always have to be on the man to do the
financials or whatever. You women have demonstrated, our mothers have
demonstrated right that you guys are just as intellectually confident,
if not more so than us men. But then the
(43:00):
ability when we are talking about duality, since we are
on that topic, you guys are literally the blueprints of that.
You guys are the originated. You showed us how to
do it. I learned how to duality from my mom,
you know. But then when we do master your skills,
say thank you to us, encourage us, as we've got
(43:20):
make to.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Give you some flowers.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Flowers, flowers perfect.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So twenty twenty five you started with the bang with
obviously having you on the podcast what you have in
store for yourself for twenty twenty five. Obviously as you're
going to be a fan to your father, that's crazy.
It's exciting in your creative space.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
What can we look.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Forward to it? Yeah? Dropping music. So I'm I'm like
a serial like perfectionist. So I've done all these things
my music and stuff like performing and stuff, but I've
never released anything. I've always just wanted to have like
the perfect representation should be. So if I listened to
ten years from now, I'm not cringing, you know, and
I think I've got to that place now. They're probably
(44:06):
releasing some new music, so that's going to be crazy. Yeah,
And just focusing on being a dad and being present
man and like trying to to to you know, part
a lot of what I learned from my parents and
from my experience as well, and also just navigating I
guess that that that challenge now for like raising you know,
arguably a black kid. You know it should be half
(44:28):
you know, Zimbabwe and a half Italian, right, like like
just raising her in this foreign sort of space, you know,
where also there's a very good chance she won't. Identity
is a big thing, right and then it look like
her dad looks like a mom exactly you know, my
girl dad girl.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
For my intellect, so.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You can stick to you and you can get a
license to.
Speaker 8 (44:55):
Get into morning so she can pay bills, that can
be a full time parent, you know, but things like
that forward looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
I'm looking forward to doing a lot of things and
correct doing a lot of course correction, I think, and
actually taking a break from just the hustle and bustle
and just slowing down and just reflecting on life and
being present, which is something luxury we just haven't had,
right you know, when we're going to UNI, like other
kids had their families and had meals cook for them,
(45:28):
you know, grocery and all that.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Whatever we remember through COVID, people will be like, I
can't see my mom.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
She's gonna trouble as I'm like the board does a
close anywhere?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Please different, there's level service and it's you know, it's
it's it's actually good. We can laugh about a lot
of this because there's a lot of trauma, you know.
And the thing is like our parents nine times out
of ten and family back home are just concerned primarily
with just the result the goal. Did you do what
we sent you to do. We're not too concerned about
(46:03):
how you got there, unless you're going to embarrass us
and do something right, So we raised each other. That's
the point I'm trying to make the peers that were
with us, because you are the ones that are part
of the journey. I have friends that like I remember
when I was like it was too hard to raise
school fee's money, right, I was like, I'm going to
focus on being an artist because that's what comes. And
(46:24):
actually like I'll be a rapper. I don't think I'm
going to be a lawyer. I'm probably go to get
to port before. So maybe if I pursue my music,
you know, maybe I can potentially get a record deal,
you know, because I don't think I'm going to graduate.
I don't think I'm going to finish law ands like,
I don't think it's a real thing for me. But
it was being around friends. I have a friend called
Rodney who was a union that's in visual right, so
(46:47):
he's like a cardiologist, like crazy surgeon in Adelaide now,
And I remember he was studying BioMed did BioMed too,
and that's a three year degree. And I remember like
he would go and study for that game said exam
by himself and like you tell us like he wants
to be a doctor, and mean just at their murder
(47:09):
at whatever. Yeah yeah, yea, yeah yeah yeah pipe dream
pipe Dane. He went, so people go and get private
lessons and stuff to do that he taught him. So
he's self taught. When set the game said, examin himself.
Got into University of Queensland Medical School, hushold his way
through the moment he left Perth. Most people get to
(47:29):
have that experience at the end when everyone graduates and
then they're like, Okay, everyone gets a job, everyone moves on.
I was fortunate enough he finished his degree before me
and left. I felt that hollowness of like I don't
want to be that guy that was left, and all
my other guys amade to lunches or whatever, and guys
(47:50):
are like, now we got you, you know what I mean?
You know, yeah, you know I don't want to I
never wanted to be. And that just woke me up
and I was like, do you try. I've got my
mentor my symbol mushroom bob. We're coming from church. Once
I was still in that mindset of like life is
too hard, you know, like you know I'm not going
(48:12):
to make it. I was in that give up mode,
right and he just graduated. He'd done become you know,
accounting and all that, and he just got an internship
at an accounting firm. We're coming from church one day
in pert hour holidays, right, and then he'd forgotten some
paperwork at work so had to drive through the city
so you couldn't gave me in the car because it
was too hot. So he's like, I do just come
on me, right, So I was like, okay, whatever, some there,
(48:34):
I head backwards, you know, I was, you know, like
begging jeans, you know, it is skunking, yeah, all day,
so in oversized teas whatever. I'm thinking, I'm a thug
aut in these streets. Right. So we walk into this
corporate space, right, So I'm used to seeing him work
at at the Kioska Celtics, right, never seen him in
a corporate station. So now I'm thinking, like he told
(48:55):
me at the jobs like whatever. So we walk into
it into the building again to the lift go up forever.
He's got a pass and he's going through this stuff
and I'm just like a black man works in this space.
It took me back to Zim and reminded me of
where I came from. Then, without him having to usher
a word, sorry utter a word, right, he ushered me
into my future. That's why mentor is important because they
(49:19):
can they can express things to you that you're willing
to receive. But that also caused the course correction for
to be like, you have no excuse not to do this,
to finish it. Yeah, and that's why I'm in the position.
I mean, so we always.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Bars bars okay, such, thank you so so much. Where
can people keep up with you so when you finally release, yeah,
we can be in the note.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Appreciate that. We'll probably launch our website at the time,
but for now, Instagram is probably the place. And so
it's simbamac that's the handles at I T S S,
I N B A m ak yep. Hit me up there, man,
Let's stay connected, be empowered people. You know, thrive, thrive, thrive.
You know it's not always easy, but it's possible. It's possible.
(50:05):
Anything you practice and you're willing to learn, you can achieve, conquerrent, thrive.
So I encourage you to do that.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
Oh, thank you, beautiful, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
I feel like I've gone through like a life life coaching,
like you know, it's been.
Speaker 4 (50:19):
Such a beautiful episode. Hey, someone needs to some money.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
On that note, there are we better go, and thank
you so much for tuning in. It's been a beautiful episode.
And thank you Simba for your time.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Thank you for the opportunity for the platform, and thank
you for even just allowing us to come and share
our journeys and our stories, you know, unfiltered, you know,
and asking the right questions and actually caring enough to
go to those places because because sometimes you know, you're
you know, the people you're interviewing will take you certain places.
(50:57):
But like that's why Oprah is a genius, because it
takes a very special person able to sit across the
table from and bring out like how much stuff do
you guys need to know? How intelligent to pull that off? Intelligence?
Speaker 4 (51:12):
Oprah?
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You heard that right here right now, Oprah. Anyway, with that,
thank you so much, everybody, catch you guys on the
next guy.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Bye.
And I feel like men a lot of times they
(00:03):
get thankless jobs. Yeah, you know, and they don't get praised,
they don't get acknowledged for the roles they play in
their family's lives.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I was like, on paper, a perfect candidate. She
walks in oppositions and Nigerian next, and they're like no.
I was like, no, why why? Because there's a Columbian downstairs.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Why I can't understand men are not transparent around the
experience the realities of being in the diaspora and the
journey of my grating. And I'm so glad that you
opened up about so many aspects of that journey.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And then I started to ask myself, am I really
the sum of solely my mother's contribution?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Mom always always they careful.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Hi, I'm a Panda and I'm Romby. Welcome to Slayered Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
We're under the Black Hoss Network powered by iHeart recording
in studio today in Malbezy.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You trying to get them out disy, but yeah, we're
here in Bittersweet Studio with our lovely setup done by
the Pink Lady Picnic.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, You've been laughing even before we press record because
we have an amazing guest for you today.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Someone is very very excited about who do we have
to day?
Speaker 5 (01:38):
Be Okay, we've got Simba in the building.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But wait before we before we welcome, Welcome, we want
to let the people know who you are so they
know that they need to come.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So we're trying to do over here, all right, So
I'm gonna read out your bio. No pressure, but the
pressure slick like Harvey Spector, but raps with the best
of them. Lawyer turned rapper Simba Mac traded his suit
and Hi, you can see he's rocking a suited.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
He's looking so good if you're not watching online. Good.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
He overstood the assignment his STUDENTAI career for a career
in music, so he's based in Melbourne where he's practiced
as a lawyer. Simber Mac is an artist who has
always embraced duality, particularly when it pertains to career and vocation.
His music articulates his life's journey from Zimbabwe to Australia
and exploring everyday themes that relate to anybody with a
(02:28):
desire to dream in spite of their background. Can I
get an a man on that bio? Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
welcome a.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Is not even touching half the things that you have done,
like so inspirational. We love like I've known you obviously
when you know someone personally, but you also see them professionally.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And ever since I saw you perform Anyway two thousand and.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
You it's literally it's insane that the power you have
on stage.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Appreciate that like it's a.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
God given talent. And to see you now years later
still it makes my heart single joy literally because it's
like I mean, Rumby and I are always supporting creatives always,
especially from Zimbaba, because we know how much there's an
extrud to Max. So to see you still doing your
thing and doing it brilliantly, kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean, I think it's I think a lot has
to be said to I guess where we come from.
It's a big thing, right, So community has always been major, right,
Like no one's ever self made, that's a myth, right,
So we're all a combination of a culmination of everyone
that's sort of poured into us one way or another. Right,
So that's one thing. But God you knows as a
(03:51):
foundation for all of that, you know, And then I
think the perspective that we've had because before we've come
from right, that adversity, right, and and having that perspective
of like the resilience we've we've had to endure together,
what was poured into us, not knowing where we'd be,
that we just be put on plane one day, you
know, and our parents saying for the best, sending us to
(04:12):
countries they've never been to. Yeah, and saying we hope
we've done enough for you to figure it out, but
don't humiliate us then embarrasses and remember the struggle you've left,
what we sacrifice for you to be in that position. Yeah.
So every time we've gone through things, we've always had
that as sort of like a measuring stick to say, well,
(04:33):
have we stayed where we were compared to what we're
having to endure where we are now? You know? Are
we better off back home or we better off in
this appearance of an advanced strengthle you know. And that
and then having that community of peers around you at UNI,
for example, cheering you on or hating on you or
(04:53):
whatever it is. But you're all in it together, right, true,
and they look like you on some level you can
identify with a collective struggle you know what I mean.
So when one suffers, you moan together. When one celebrates,
it inspires you. Whether it's through envy or jealousy or
genuine celebration, it causes you to look in the mirror
and really assess, am I fulfilling what my parents sacrificed
(05:18):
so much for me? Yeah, we all helped each other.
So even even you guys doing what you're doing that
this is inspirational because same deal, because you laugh about
it because at Uni, our parents were like, you know,
make sure you focus on your studies, can get that
bands because no one really makes money off that back right,
(05:40):
And our parents didn't have a lot of the advantages
we have of like you know, accessing you know, private
school or really decent education that allows you to qualify
to you know, come to a university in a foreign
country based off our grades back in Zimbabwe. So so
for them, their way of us advancing is by them
(06:00):
giving us what they didn't have, because they think that's
leveling up, right. But then another thing that they don't
always appreciate or the blind spot for them is we're
different generation. But then we've also been thrust into a
different world Unlike this is so the amount of adjustment
required and attention to nuance to just even survive in
(06:25):
this new space, which for which were the first generation, right,
is something they will never understand. And for us to
be in a position where we can now sit here
and not have sub stories but victories, but we can
also share the journey of the struggles until we got
to this point, right, it just changes the whole day.
Like because I can give you an example, like when
(06:48):
so so when when I headlined new y z here
in Melbourne, right, find like tens.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Of thousands of people just dropping that casually.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
It was crazy, Right, So I just finished, We just
finished settling. Like I was in a class action team
for a really big firm. We just set of like
the largest settlement in Australian legal history at the time, right,
And I was like thirty at the time, and I
was just sitting in my office thinking, man, like I've
just like piacked so early, and by then I had
achieved it. I needed to do help Mom, got my
(07:21):
brothers through high school in union and all that stuff.
And I had sacrifices really like my whole life, so
I could do that whilst I was here, which is
the point of me coming. So I was like, I
wanted to do something for myself, and I really wanted
to pursue music. But then the challenge I had was,
you know, I was living this dual career situation where
I had to provide for my family, right, So the
law thing was paying the bills. But then I was
(07:43):
a gospel rapper at the time in church, right, so
you're performing for souls, you know, to you know, preach
the gospel and all that kind of stuff. So that's
sharpening your skills, but it's not paying the bills. So
I really wanted to really have an opportunity to pursue
my music because I felt like like that was my
care you know, my vocation, and law was my career.
(08:04):
Music and entertainment was my vocation. And there's a difference
between the two, right, your career, like people go to university,
they can learn how to do that, you know, they
acquire skill, you know, but your vocation it's God given,
you know. The most anyone can do is if you
have it, you have it, you can just polish it
and make it better. But if you don't have it,
there's nothing you can look about it. Right, So I
knew that with a career because so many people can
(08:26):
qualify to be a lawyer, right, Yeah, I can only
negotiate my true value up to a certain degree based
on what the general populace of doing. So unless I
own a law firm, I have to fit within a
brackt in theories, right, however, with my vocation, because people
can't be taught to do exactly what you're described in
the beginning, right, Read a crowd, whether it's twenty people,
(08:49):
ten thousand people, one hundred thousand people, and determine how
you're going to adjust the flow of energy so they're
receptive to what you do. That's something that's just like
God give me. And because you've that particular skill set, right,
that then allows you to actually demand a value because
people now want to pay for the Symbermac experience. They
want to pay, you know, for the room experience, their
(09:10):
mand experience, right, and they can't get it anywhere else, right,
which is why Chris Brown can charge wady charges, why
can charge word charges, right. And lawyers have to pay
whatever they want to and they can always negotiate with
the lawyer because there's always a cap on their value.
But there isn't a cap on 's value. There's an
a cap on Chris Brown's value. So I always understood that.
So I always want to explore that the entrepreneur and
(09:31):
me always wanted to see what that looked like. And
I was like, well, I'm kind of a good place
with my legal career. It's a nice time to do something.
And even if I were to fail, I'm going to
fail forward, but I've said enough for a foundation to
come back into law. Yeah, So I explained it to
my mom. I had to have a blessing, right because
you have single moms, you know, you know zim moms too,
(09:54):
So so did that and then what happened was so
fast forward about within about a year and a half.
What happened was that the fact that I was a
lawyer allowed me to jump a lot of steps. So
I got put on like main stages because I was coming.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
For background, so they you knew how to happen.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well. I definitely was carrying myself a certain way, energy
and confidence about me. But at the same time, like
it takes somebody that's either delusional or knows what they're
doing to leave a corporate situation uncomfortable, but to embark
into something that could possibly resulting you not earning anything
(10:38):
an idiot of yourself. So if people know you've come
from a successful situation, they're more likely than not to
give you a shot with your next venture because you've
done what most people perceive as the hard. Yes, right,
so they're like, Okay, shouldn't take them too much to
be able to rock his stakes? Yeah, you know what
I mean. So I just had to sell the image
(10:58):
right to at least give me an She needs to
be on stage saying fast forward New Yar's Eve happens.
I'm on stage right, and I'm headlining the whole thing, right,
do the fireworks for the whole city whatever. Right. And
then as I'm performing, right, because a lot of my
music's autobiographicals by my mom are struggling all yourself and
my journey, you know, because I love to inspire people, right,
(11:19):
that's what it's about. I'm thinking to myself, like, I
need to do three or four of these, and I
need to fly mom over because she couldn't. She accepted
the fact that I needed to do it because I'm
general right by her, But.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
At the same time she's just like, yeah, yeah, my
son is nice. I'm still going to say quiet this
so what unbeknownst to me? Right, So so at the
end of like the concert whatever, So Citium Melbourne was
involved in it because it was a Federation square and stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Right, So my team come up to me and they're like, yo,
someone from city speak to you. So I'm just like
ship yeah, right, And because then you can't really you know,
touch on religion or you'll be careful is such a
public space. So I was thinking to myself, now we're
so thorough about it, like we spent six months curating
the show for a whole hour, Like now we knew
(12:15):
what we do. How could I have gone anything? Who
did I offend? So anyway, I go to the back dances.
Everyone's at the back there, you know, the band or whatever,
just like looking all somber and stuff. I'm trying to
boost people's morale, Like, guys, do you understand what we just? Do?
You know what I mean? Like, there's there's no there's
a blueprint on how to be a lawyer. There's a
blueprint on how to be an engineered. There's a blueprint this.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Stuff, Like there is no blueprint.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, we brought this into fruition based off a dream
that no one believed in, Like who would have thought, right?
And then everyone's just like yeah, yeah, it's like come on,
clap people like And then corner my eye, I see
my mom just walking. She was in the concert the
whole I had no idea. In fact, we had such
a bad sound check. I called her and I was like,
Mom and my buddy umiliated myself in front of the
(12:57):
whole of Melbourne, and I'm gonna probably need to go
back on my tailing between my legs and pay for
my job back. And I was just like, baby, I'm
on my way to work, I'm busy, I'll talk to you.
And I was just like this.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
For me, right, yeah, when I need it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Mo.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
She's like, okay, it's one of those I told you
some moments. But seeing her right and knowing that this
was probably the pen ultimate in terms of experiences for
me right, having pulled this off right, that all just
erased my man. I forgot where I was, it didn't matter.
Tears and then my mom was crying and we like
crawled to each other. I wasn't find everybody right and
(13:34):
were just crying. Yeah, and then my mom just came
and embraced me. And said I couldn't believe it was
my you're my son, like and she was crying the
whole time, saying I was just repenting to God, saying
I did not know that you had this gift in you,
you know. And I used to spend two hours in
the toilet when I was nine, and I got this lyric.
I'm like, like, let me take you back to nineteen
eighty five. Barbara gave birth to this fat little guy.
(13:57):
She called him beloved, She called him somebadashi. But Daddy
looked at me. I said, he's probably gonna make it.
I remember sitting on the toilet seat age now with
my pen and pat trying to run my very first ramp,
My knocking at the door, thinking I'm out of my mind.
To me, I'm doing homework. To her, I'm wasting time.
You give me so like so that just came just
it's crazy, but like to you remember that moment, you know,
and it's like it just it all made sense. Yeah,
(14:20):
So even my dad not even being in my life,
like that was all the validation I ever needed. And
then everything just sort of like the world became It
made sense to me, made sense to her why she
had this weirdo you know kid, but you know, like
you know, glory to God, like you know, I had
a lot of friends, people like you family, you know,
(14:40):
to just keep me accountable to my to my vocation
and to my career along the way.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
So yeah, you touched on so many things. We can
we can we can, we can dive into. But I
would love to talk on this aspect of you being
Zimbabweing right and especially as a man. Do you find
it hard like that duality you're talking about where you know,
we've already gotten a picture of how you kind of
(15:05):
have this belief even from a young age that you
wanted to make music, but it was kind of like, ah,
you know, you're a lawyer, you know, but truly going
an unconventional profession. And I think to our listeners, Simba's description,
I think gives a good idea of how complex it
is doing unconventional things if you come from a Zimbabwean background.
(15:29):
So what was the hardest part for you or do
you think the goal was so much bigger that you
never saw it as hard to pursue you know, music
as well as you know you did law.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
You did what she needed to do.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But do you understand what I'm saying, Like, like or
was a goal just that much more of a motivator
that the hardship was, Like, Okay, it's part of it,
but the goal is so much bigger and that's what
I want to do. And what advice would you give
someone who understands your struggle and is like, I want
to do that, but I have this dichotomy of like,
(16:03):
I need to provide for my family, but I also
feel this calling to do what I was called to do.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah. Look, that's such a brilliant question, and it's such
a loaded question, so many ways you can sort of
tackle it. Perhaps I'll use maybe a bit of an
unconventional sort of response. Okay, so I'll look at it
from this point of view. So pretty much for the
majority of my life, I've always heralded and praised my
single mom, right for the sacrifices she made, right for
(16:33):
myself and my two younger brothers. Right, But my dad
passed away in April this year, and we didn't have
much of a relationship to say the least, right, And
I never ever gave that man credit for anything. Yeah,
and it was only maybe about a month or so ago.
(16:56):
I ever really posted about him. And it took a
lot because in spite of what I'd gone through being
able to be successful, in spite of you know, him
being an absentia for a big significant part of my life,
there's still that resentment and then unforgiveness. Right, So naturally
(17:17):
I try to be the optimist and focus the attention
of my mom, who did the positive things in my eyes, right,
But answer your question, I'm about to be a dad, right.
So on Father's Day I realized, like, that's when I
broke down for the first time. So my dad died.
I didn't cry or anything, you know, because I just
had so much anger anyway towards him. On Father's Day
(17:39):
it just hit me that, you know, I want to
be dead, And I was like, would I ever want
my child to never want ter have a relationship with me?
And that made me break down. Then the regrets started
sitting in. Then you go on this path, it can
be dark, but it's very reflective at the same time.
And then I started to ask myself, really, the sum
(18:01):
of solely my mother's contribution, what did this man pour
into me? Right? Because I look at my siblings, I
look at me. We built different they've been raised solely
by my mom. I at least save my first seven
years of my life for my mom and my dad, right,
actually eight years. Now. Here's the thing when I think
(18:26):
of my upbringing. My dad was so intentional about my upbringing.
So the first thing he said is you're going to
be an international statement. My mom looked at him, like
you're crazy, and my dad said, he's going to master
the Queen's English. He's not going to speak shun her
the first seven years of his life. He's going to
(18:46):
master English because he needs to learn that skill so
he can conquer wherever he ends up in the world.
My grandparents, who barely could speak a word, had to
learn how to speak to me because I couldn't speak
to him. Right. I only started and Shauna because it
was compulsory because of school, you know. And even with
that I got to excel. But having a mastery in English, right,
(19:08):
and then having to go to the schools that we
went to amongst white people, my dad just gave me
this sense of like equal, you get what I'm saying,
Even an equal like that, I was superior, Like I
was always the smartest person, even if I wasn't like
you give me a sense of you've got enough ego
to give it a go, and even if you fail,
(19:31):
you got enough ego to try yet. Right, So having
that is a foundation right in my mental blueprint, right
like or my mental DNA R gave me this this
insurmountable sense of.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
I can do any anything.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And then now that combined with my mom now taking
me to church and stuff and watching her overcome what
she did in a patriarchal society as the matriarch in
the family where she's not designed to thrive, right, and
she did kept us in private school. Mama was a
receptionist when we're at Hartman Urson Saint George's, was able
(20:08):
to keep me in there, right, But then the endurance
and she never gave us an excuse. My dad went
to jail so many from the bank you worked for.
Right when I was she's like nine years away. That
was public knowledge. And you imagine to go to school,
and then I was going to Saint George's, right, and
I was like one of maybe a handful of guys
(20:30):
would go to school in public transport Macombe, you know,
and you know that driveway is a long right, and
then everyone's like looking at she likes. Right, So you're
like the poor school, poorest kid at the richest school,
and you have to go and sit there every day.
And I remember we used to live in Zada Circle
(20:50):
for a while, right, So like but you know, like
an like you know, like like a dryer right to
dry clothes. So the maid who washed you know, like
our clothes with their hands, right then hang among the
clothes line, right. But we didn't have like an electric stove,
so we cook outside with like, you know, firewood, so
the smoke was going to of course clothes. And then
(21:12):
you get into the next and guys are like, yeah,
why are you smile like that? You know where you're
coming from or whatever, you know, So dealing with that.
But then even with that, like I always remember, like
my mom's struggle, I always remember my dad told me
I was right. See even at Saint Georgie's. I was
president at Tourstmasters by Lower six, you know what I'm saying,
Like all of these things, I was a prefect both
(21:33):
at Harmanas and I just I didn't I had this
relentless drive right to just go, go, go, go go.
And because you didn't have much money and all that
kind of stuff. I had to find creative ways to
spend my time. Then it was either God, church or music,
you know, poetry, whatever. So I was always exploring those things,
(21:54):
plus my academics and then sports and arts and all
that kind of stuff. So I always had that constantly,
like as a running thing throughout all. Right, So my
mom would just be too busy to tell me not
to do certain things, you know what I mean, as
long as I was like kicking goals and yeah, she's
like whatever, I don't know what he's doing or whatever.
So even coming to us like I had to be
(22:15):
so you know, there had to be so much ingenuity
in the way. I even thought of how that leaves me, yes,
because we don't even have money. My mom was like, well,
it is what it is. But I had faith from
God and I always knew got to call me to
be president of Zimbabwe one day, right, So I was like,
this can't be the end and I can't just go
to use it. There's nothing wrong with that. But then
(22:37):
Dad prepped me knowing at some point in my life
I was going to have to go oversea to go
master and learn certain things so I can come back
home and you know, help my people. Right, So I
was like, nah, So I wrote a letter to tendor
the wealthies businessmen I knew back home, to see someone
responds to me. Yeah, went to see them all. The
tenth guy saw everyone knocked me back. The tenth guy
(22:58):
I saw said, okay, leave in your dream and pay
for my first semester so I could get a visa
to just come in to Australia. Then my mom's sold
a card to pay for my plane ticket, gave me
a few hundred bucks to start up. That's how I
ended up in Australia, right, And then I had to
work four jobs pretty much concurrently, just so I could
pay my school fees and all that, just to get
by and stuff like that. So what when when you
facing that kind of adversity, right, for a lot of
(23:22):
people that don't have anything to counter it with. We
grew up around black lawyers, black doctors, black garbage collectors
or whatever. Right, So whatever adversity I was going to
go through here, I had something to counter it with
because of what I saw in my what I was,
what I was immersed in back home. Yeah, you know,
which is so so I didn't have to permanently code switch. Yes,
(23:46):
compared to a kid who's born here, it doesn't have
anything to challenge when they told a black kid that
your race, you're you know, you're black, or you're not,
you're only worth this much or whatever. And then you're
the society or the institutions condition you to that you
need to code switch to white, to free, not just
to fit in, but just to have a chance to
(24:06):
make it right. And and we we were told you
can be all of these things because we've seen that.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
And that's actually something we don't talk enough about, I think,
is how we have that privilege of having seen, you know,
black people succeed in their own country.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
We don't have to worry about race, Okay, So it's
it's normalized. So when someone tells you you can't do
it here, you're like, what are you talking about? My dad?
Is this? My mom? And my AUNTI is this? It's
not even that far removed, you know what I mean.
I'm here, I'm juggling full time, juggling full time UNI,
(24:46):
and I'm thriving at both. So what's what's the right?
What's all of these things? So you learn how to
be duality or being a trifecta of skills, like you
have to be like what about is all things to
all men? You know? And even when you're in this space,
it's not it's not good enough as a black person
to just be good at one thing, right. You don't
(25:08):
get to get into corporate just being good on one thing, right.
You gotta be good at the thing that everyone else
is good at it. Then you want to show them
why you're special because because for a lot of people,
you're the first version of your complexion they ever seen
in that space. Definitely take like you gotta you got
a Nelson Mandel, Do you know what I'm saying? And
(25:31):
that's not because so that you can thry, so you
can keep the door open.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
For the next Yeah, the amount of times I go
to meetings on my PA and they greet my pa,
I am you are the paps. And also she's an
older white lady and she now gets the point where
she kind of loves it. She knows it's gonna happen,
Like she's like, no, that's Amanda. Yeah, I don't even
(25:55):
like one guy, I literally like muscle this way past
me to come and greet her.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
That's crazy, Like no, it's like, you know, they've just
never seen that. And also with that, right, then comes
the thing of like you have to also condition yourself
to understand you can't as offensive as certain things. Maybe
you cannot operate from a place of emotion no, right,
because you got to understand nuance right, because there's there's
(26:20):
a difference, and we all learned this. Right. You don't
get a playbook of how to thrive in this situation, right.
Our parents didn't know how to do it. We're the
first ones to try it out, right, But the wise
ones of us figured out that we have to make
a decision whether we want to be right or whether
we want to win pick one, because when you start winning,
(26:41):
you can afford to be right. Sometimes when you choose
to be right, you seldom can afford to wait if
you don't control the system in place. Right, So we're
trying to be in there and to normalize our presence
in a lot of these spaces where us being there's
a foreign concept or unlikely and things like this still
happen to this, you know, but.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
It's exhausting, But we do open avenues for other people.
I remember the first time, I mean at my workplace,
I was the first black woman. And then we did
another round of interviews for like it was just not
a like an entry level job, and this Nigerian lady
applied and she said, look, I've raised my three girls.
(27:22):
Now I'm an empty nest, so all I want is
just a job until I retire. So this is perfect
for me. And I was like, on paper, a perfect candidate.
She walks in obviously shows a Nigerian accent.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
They're like no.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I was like, no, why why because there's a Columbian downstairs.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
Why can't understand?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
But like, y'all think she's cute, so that's why, you know,
And I had to challenge them. I thought, you know what,
this is probably the reason why you do open the doors,
you said, for others to come through.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
And she's apisolutely brilliant type of kills it because she
has that purpose because she's.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Like, you know, I'm at home, I'm all alone. My
job is my social network. And now they all love her.
But it took that like jumping into that known for
them because they were like, oh, we can't get past
the accent. And in fact, she's speaking English again you
can all hear what she's saying.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well, you know, you know, that's interesting, that's that's such
a valid point. So firstly to your point about being tied, right,
there is a degree of exhaustion, right. And and the
thing is like, even amongst ourselves, right, sometimes you can
be so embarrassed even to discuss amongst ourselves what we're
struggling with, because we always want to appear strong, because
that's what you know, keep up appearances, right.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Because that's what our parents did to be fair.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
To be fair, that's a form of codes because you're
not being real, but she's being what's necessary for the moment.
But some of us don't uncode switch back to reality,
and that's where the stress comes, that's where the frustration comes,
that's where the unrealistic expectations come, and that's where the
very realistic disappointment comes. Right. And if we have more
(28:53):
of these discussions amongst ourselves and also acknowledge and also
make it, make people aware of it. And because we've
done well all right, we're probably the best candidates to
actually broke discussions like racism that way. We're not coming
from an emotional stand true, because we have a right
to you, but we want to win this discussion and
we don't want to win the argument and lose the person.
(29:14):
So we will never come from a place of emotion,
will come from a place.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Of intellect, said like a true lawyer.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Yeah, very very diplomatic.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
We see, we see why you do what you do,
like you do want it for TV?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, but you feel me right like, no, I get
it at the end of the day, right, because people
always they rush to racism, and yes, but that's a
very simplistic way of putting it. And you know what,
to somebody where to whom it's happening to, it makes sense. Yeah, right,
But then there is this thing about racism right where
it's like colonization back in the day, you know, Britain
(29:48):
could go in and invade a country and do what
they wanted. Right now they get to do it to
multinational companies. In fact, it's an evolutionary version of colonization, right,
all right, And there's that's it's a long story, but
there's the reason why we're all here and not at all, right,
but that's a different discussion together. They're calling us out nice,
(30:09):
But what I will say, though, what I will say
is that racism's version of that is classes and when
it evolves, right, So then it becomes this thing where
racism shouts classes and whispers. Right, So racism shouts offense,
classes and whispers offense, and it's designed specifically to be
targeted at the person it's supposed to undermine and keep down.
(30:32):
And then because it's whispered, only that person hears it.
And then when they say it out loud, because no
one else hears it, no one else, it might not happen.
And that it didn't happen, it couldn't have happened. So
sometimes racism is a preferred thing because it can actually
it puts things on the table that can be dealt.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Have you watched Origin, a movie by Ava currently on Netflix.
I'm telling everybody to watch.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
This Australian Netflix.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
That's yeah, on European European Netflix.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
But if we got it on the European Netflix, I'm
sure it's come to it or it will come. But basically,
she's challenging this notion of we always quick to say
everything's racism, but then her as you talk classism, I
think it's very true. We had an episode on classism
if you haven't really listened to it, but also cost system.
But it's all about you know, putting someone else down
(31:24):
to you know, put yourself. And I think we need
to realize that the conversations around discrimination are very nuanced
and we can't always just leave it to race, and
with things like classism and cost systems. It also challenges
you because it happens between people who look the same
of the same nationality, same race. And we don't like
(31:46):
that because it makes us feel like, oh so you know,
and if you think about it in that perspective, it's uncomfortable, right,
So you you Bridge, you speak a very good point.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
But the thing is, the thing about race isn't them
which is And I love your points, they're so on
point racism. Think about it. It actually gives you a
cheat cut. If you're successful and rich, you get to
enter into this is. You get us set at the
table classes in no matter how successful you are, exactly
like you will remind you of who you are.
Speaker 7 (32:20):
Fact, you're not part of the origin families, this situation,
you know what I mean, through the cracks and the
system whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
So to me, the exhaustion in having to more often
than not be the only person in these rooms where
there's high pressure expectations to perform or whatever and bite
your tongue right for the sake of whoever might come
after you, for your survival, for your ability to thrive,
(32:52):
takes a massive toll that nobody that doesn't look a
certain way hasn't gone through. What we want to think
about it. We're like, what, seven thousand miles eleven thousand
kilometers away from the place who were born, and we've
been that way for the last two decades with no supervision.
(33:14):
How do you end up like this? There has to
be something in the water where there's cultural discipline, whatever
it is, back home, because there's just way too many
of us that have come from that situation of abject
poverty or something or whatever, and we're just thrust into
this situation, put on planes to come here. Have made it. Yeah,
(33:36):
if we were to flip the script with kids born here,
the resilience.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
We're not there.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
We're cut from a different apologetic about that, and there's
something to be celebrated about us even surviving here. But
we've thrived.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Thank you for saying that, Because I think this rhetoric
around millennials of a matching our parents' success and all
this it's very loud, right, but I think The way
you've kind of put it is that think about where
we came from and the odds we faced that are
on a completely different playing field too. You know a
(34:16):
lot of our peers who don't.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Have that, and the opportunity is not given. A lot
of times they won't tell you about the ground. Yeah
university are you land? You know, yeah, I'm working for
jobs to make It's not the same, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, the thing is because they gave your leg up.
And here's another thing. We we all majority of us
came here, right, So back home they'll think, oh, you know,
simple as in Australia. Yeah, right, okay, cool. But if
you think about it, the way things are supposed to
work from one generation to the next, right, You're supposed
(34:55):
to have compounding interests. You're supposed to be the benef
history of those that came before. Right. So for example,
like in my situation, fine, I found a way to
get myself here, right, But then I'm the first generation.
I'm what the first Italians were, the first grades were,
(35:16):
That's what I am, right, But then I'm not working
oft an inheritance from my parents. Big fact, I'm coming
here to something so I can pay a black time. Yes,
So I'm coming here to be a parent.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So I'm missing I don't when I look back at Younique,
it wasn't enjoyable to me. I had to fake. I
don't know if you guys even noticed that I was
working for jobs or whatever. Mind Roma got canceled five
times because I was behind on my school. You know
what I'm saying. It's like I supposed to be deported
five times over, like the Romance managers, like at least
is paying his rent on time whatever, and his grades
are decent. I'll try and keep it from the ball
(35:55):
from the bar, doesn't you know what I'm saying. But
then amongst your peers, you're also trying to hustle and
do these kind of thing. So when you think of
all of that stuff, and then we're starting at a
point where we've got to send money back, so we're
not even making like that forward stride we're supposed to
if we had said or kept all the money we're sending. Yeah, definitely, right,
(36:15):
So I get to start my family way later because
I had to raise my brothers and all that stuff. Right,
So that's all my But at the same time that
also forced me to push myself beyond what I was
willing to do for myself. Right, there was a benefit,
there's a bigger goal, yes, for sure. Right, but we
all we all struggle like in that respect, like having
(36:37):
to do those kinds of things. Right, So you're here
and your savings are necessarily up to power or whatever,
and you're at X age whatever, but it's you've paid
a black tast black Your life may actually realistically speaking
properly start with you being enjoying the fruits of your
labor maybe age.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
And then people are thinking about you been there for
thirty years, twenty years? What?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And then it's think about it's scary to post anything
on social because I can be interributed back home really
something nice whatever, eating you know, like and also the guilt.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Do notay even in a room be coming here and
we'll be just so frank even coming out with the podcast.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
But so the.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Podcast making myself and it's like people don't understand the satrifice, sacrifice.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
You're scared to let people know the work because listen,
we can go on and like there's so many things
touched on, so many.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
So late, but I.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
But I will say thank you, I know, we have
to wrap up now and time is running out, but
I think.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
It was very.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
It's been very important, I think hearing especially from a
male perspective. I think that's another thing, especially in our community,
men are not sparent around the experience the realities of
being in the diaspora and the journey of my grating.
And I'm so glad that you opened up about so
many aspects of that journey, as well as trying to
be a creative whilst also being a support system to
(38:15):
your family, especially back home and financially. Like, there's so
many layers to your life, to a lot of our
lives when we are trying to make it in this
new world we've been given.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
So I just want to say thank you for that,
for sharing that.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Clearly we need to have.
Speaker 5 (38:32):
Another conversation because clearly so much more.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I just had one question to ask you, and as
you were speaking about how you mastered the English language,
do you think that played the usual and you being.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
A lyricist, No one's got no one's got painted like that,
That's what I mean. Excited finish that thought. So so
when I was reflecting on it, right, I was like,
the only reason I got the the springboard right to
even have the mindset of God, to even have the
(39:05):
ability to identify things by a nuance or whatever, because
I had an advantage and a head start from anyone
else up against So even in schools, killing the white
kids English even here killed the white kids even and
mastering English because of the way the languages constructed helped
me learn languages like Latin and French. You know, you
(39:27):
know what I mean, Oh, I guess law.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
Yeah, even this is.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
A Saint George's like they used to.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
People like Latin people did I did not know that, Yeah,
you know, And then you got to do your you
know your sciences, you know, chemistry, biophysics or whatever, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
What I mean, like like you do it all right.
But then he gave me that, and I always and
for a long time. Yes, I did carry shame because
of what my dad did, you know, going to prison
on le style, but I also carried pride because of
our last name and what he did, what he represents,
all the stories they do about your uncles and stuff. Right,
So credit to my dad. May rest in peace, but
(40:06):
he puts such an incredible thing. And I feel like
men a lot of times they get thankless jobs, you know,
and they don't get praised, They don't get acknowledged for
the roles they play in their family's lives in nine
times out of ten, like what tends to be highlighted
is what they do wrong, you know. And I'm literally
(40:26):
an example of that, right well, my dad, you know.
And it's unfortunate that you know, it took that long
to realize that, right, But I'm glad I did anyway,
you know what I mean. But it also is helping
me deconstruct why I'm the way I am, why I'm
different from my brothers who only got raised with unconditional love.
My dad raised me with full on, intense discipline right
(40:48):
for the first half of my life when I was
in zim and then I had unconditional love for my
mom solely, right, but my brother's only got unconditional love.
We build different in was sometimes you need a man
because I don't think I don't listen to my mom
the way I would have. My dad put a sense
of reviewing. I'm not saying it's healthy extent to which
(41:11):
way where like, you know, you've got to get the
kid to get certain things done, and he put just
enough in me that when he was absent for the
rest of my life, those seven years were enough.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I mean, Ruby, I'm sure has seen it now even
with Jerome like I'll be like, I'm so comes through
and does what he needs to do it. So, I
mean this season, we were really trying to celebrate black women,
and but it was really important for us to have
you on because there is black men too, and I
think you don't have spaces that we always celebrate you,
(41:43):
so to have you on our podcast, but this episode
has been so special for us.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
And shout out to our brothers.
Speaker 6 (41:49):
Yes and.
Speaker 5 (41:53):
So good.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
I would this makes sense because I was, for the
most part of my life raised by a single woman, right.
I will tell you, as a man, I do have
a nuanced appreciation and perspective when it comes to women.
So because of what I saw my mom did right
as a single woman in that patriarchal society, when I
look at women, I know there's a lot of things
(42:17):
you do do way better than we could if it
were a civil parents a little louder for those. But
because I was there to see my mom, there's things
that I expect out of women that I'm like, nah,
you can do that I know what you're capable, I
know how strong you can be. Not for everyone, but
for a lot of you. There's that. So also want
(42:38):
to also send a message that there is that thing
that men do see, you know, and it is the
time for women to actually shine, you know what I mean.
And we are in a world now where it doesn't
always have to be on the man to do the
financials or whatever. You women have demonstrated, our mothers have
demonstrated right that you guys are just as intellectually confident,
if not more so than us men. But then the
(43:00):
ability when we are talking about duality, since we are
on that topic, you guys are literally the blueprints of that.
You guys are the originated. You showed us how to
do it. I learned how to duality from my mom,
you know. But then when we do master your skills,
say thank you to us, encourage us, as we've got
(43:20):
make to.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Give you some flowers.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Flowers, flowers perfect.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So twenty twenty five you started with the bang with
obviously having you on the podcast what you have in
store for yourself for twenty twenty five. Obviously as you're
going to be a fan to your father, that's crazy.
It's exciting in your creative space.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
What can we look.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Forward to it? Yeah? Dropping music. So I'm I'm like
a serial like perfectionist. So I've done all these things
my music and stuff like performing and stuff, but I've
never released anything. I've always just wanted to have like
the perfect representation should be. So if I listened to
ten years from now, I'm not cringing, you know, and
I think I've got to that place now. They're probably
(44:06):
releasing some new music, so that's going to be crazy. Yeah,
And just focusing on being a dad and being present
man and like trying to to to you know, part
a lot of what I learned from my parents and
from my experience as well, and also just navigating I
guess that that that challenge now for like raising you know,
arguably a black kid. You know it should be half
(44:28):
you know, Zimbabwe and a half Italian, right, like like
just raising her in this foreign sort of space, you know,
where also there's a very good chance she won't. Identity
is a big thing, right and then it look like
her dad looks like a mom exactly you know, my
girl dad girl.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
For my intellect, so.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
You can stick to you and you can get a
license to.
Speaker 8 (44:55):
Get into morning so she can pay bills, that can
be a full time parent, you know, but things like
that forward looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
I'm looking forward to doing a lot of things and
correct doing a lot of course correction, I think, and
actually taking a break from just the hustle and bustle
and just slowing down and just reflecting on life and
being present, which is something luxury we just haven't had,
right you know, when we're going to UNI, like other
kids had their families and had meals cook for them,
(45:28):
you know, grocery and all that.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Whatever we remember through COVID, people will be like, I
can't see my mom.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
She's gonna trouble as I'm like the board does a
close anywhere?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Please different, there's level service and it's you know, it's
it's it's actually good. We can laugh about a lot
of this because there's a lot of trauma, you know.
And the thing is like our parents nine times out
of ten and family back home are just concerned primarily
with just the result the goal. Did you do what
we sent you to do. We're not too concerned about
(46:03):
how you got there, unless you're going to embarrass us
and do something right, So we raised each other. That's
the point I'm trying to make the peers that were
with us, because you are the ones that are part
of the journey. I have friends that like I remember
when I was like it was too hard to raise
school fee's money, right, I was like, I'm going to
focus on being an artist because that's what comes. And
(46:24):
actually like I'll be a rapper. I don't think I'm
going to be a lawyer. I'm probably go to get
to port before. So maybe if I pursue my music,
you know, maybe I can potentially get a record deal,
you know, because I don't think I'm going to graduate.
I don't think I'm going to finish law ands like,
I don't think it's a real thing for me. But
it was being around friends. I have a friend called
Rodney who was a union that's in visual right, so
(46:47):
he's like a cardiologist, like crazy surgeon in Adelaide now,
And I remember he was studying BioMed did BioMed too,
and that's a three year degree. And I remember like
he would go and study for that game said exam
by himself and like you tell us like he wants
to be a doctor, and mean just at their murder
(47:09):
at whatever. Yeah yeah, yea, yeah yeah yeah pipe dream
pipe Dane. He went, so people go and get private
lessons and stuff to do that he taught him. So
he's self taught. When set the game said, examin himself.
Got into University of Queensland Medical School, hushold his way
through the moment he left Perth. Most people get to
(47:29):
have that experience at the end when everyone graduates and
then they're like, Okay, everyone gets a job, everyone moves on.
I was fortunate enough he finished his degree before me
and left. I felt that hollowness of like I don't
want to be that guy that was left, and all
my other guys amade to lunches or whatever, and guys
(47:50):
are like, now we got you, you know what I mean?
You know, yeah, you know I don't want to I
never wanted to be. And that just woke me up
and I was like, do you try. I've got my
mentor my symbol mushroom bob. We're coming from church. Once
I was still in that mindset of like life is
too hard, you know, like you know I'm not going
(48:12):
to make it. I was in that give up mode,
right and he just graduated. He'd done become you know,
accounting and all that, and he just got an internship
at an accounting firm. We're coming from church one day
in pert hour holidays, right, and then he'd forgotten some
paperwork at work so had to drive through the city
so you couldn't gave me in the car because it
was too hot. So he's like, I do just come
on me, right, So I was like, okay, whatever, some there,
(48:34):
I head backwards, you know, I was, you know, like
begging jeans, you know, it is skunking, yeah, all day,
so in oversized teas whatever. I'm thinking, I'm a thug
aut in these streets. Right. So we walk into this
corporate space, right, So I'm used to seeing him work
at at the Kioska Celtics, right, never seen him in
a corporate station. So now I'm thinking, like he told
(48:55):
me at the jobs like whatever. So we walk into
it into the building again to the lift go up forever.
He's got a pass and he's going through this stuff
and I'm just like a black man works in this space.
It took me back to Zim and reminded me of
where I came from. Then, without him having to usher
a word, sorry utter a word, right, he ushered me
into my future. That's why mentor is important because they
(49:19):
can they can express things to you that you're willing
to receive. But that also caused the course correction for
to be like, you have no excuse not to do this,
to finish it. Yeah, and that's why I'm in the position.
I mean, so we always.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Bars bars okay, such, thank you so so much. Where
can people keep up with you so when you finally release, yeah,
we can be in the note.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Appreciate that. We'll probably launch our website at the time,
but for now, Instagram is probably the place. And so
it's simbamac that's the handles at I T S S,
I N B A m ak yep. Hit me up there, man,
Let's stay connected, be empowered people. You know, thrive, thrive, thrive.
You know it's not always easy, but it's possible. It's possible.
(50:05):
Anything you practice and you're willing to learn, you can achieve, conquerrent, thrive.
So I encourage you to do that.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
Oh, thank you, beautiful, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
I feel like I've gone through like a life life coaching,
like you know, it's been.
Speaker 4 (50:19):
Such a beautiful episode. Hey, someone needs to some money.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
On that note, there are we better go, and thank
you so much for tuning in. It's been a beautiful episode.
And thank you Simba for your time.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Thank you for the opportunity for the platform, and thank
you for even just allowing us to come and share
our journeys and our stories, you know, unfiltered, you know,
and asking the right questions and actually caring enough to
go to those places because because sometimes you know, you're
you know, the people you're interviewing will take you certain places.
(50:57):
But like that's why Oprah is a genius, because it
takes a very special person able to sit across the
table from and bring out like how much stuff do
you guys need to know? How intelligent to pull that off? Intelligence?
Speaker 4 (51:12):
Oprah?
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You heard that right here right now, Oprah. Anyway, with that,
thank you so much, everybody, catch you guys on the
next guy.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Bye.
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