Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this
land that we record this podcast on and pay respects
to the elders, past, present and emerging. We must always
remember that under the concrete and asphalt that this land is, was,
and always will be Aboriginal Land. Hi, I'm Amanda and
(00:32):
I'm Rumby. Welcome to It's Lay It the Studio Special Edition.
We are still geeking over this. Wait, yes, we are
acting like we never seen nice things ever, not this
type of nice, not like this call from our little
laptop roomby.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, anytime you want to come roll with me. There
was one call, not long call, never mind.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Thank you be still singing, So we see on this podcast.
Will love to go into layers. It's layer and I
don't think there's a more layered topic than privilege in.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
All its aspects.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, and I think the rise of like everything happens
with Black Lives Matter and social movements and COVID in
itself because there was a lot of privilege attached to
a pandemic.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
What is privilege to you.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yo, Well, immediately when you talk about privilege, I think
of the what's it called when you have Haley Biber,
What would you call white passing No, no, no, no,
no's nepotism, I think, but.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
It's not my passing white. I think I was all hathy, housy.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
No idea anyway, but like nepotism, but like, she has
a privilege to be who she is because she grew
up in a successful family. Therefore she has access to
certain brands and people. So that's a form of privilege.
And I would define privilege.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
As having an advantage over others, often in a way
that you who is privilege is not aware of or
is not cognizant of, because it's natural, it comes naturally,
or you're born into it, or it seems natural unless
you are told otherwise, or make sure you educate yourself otherwise.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I think it's almost like an exposure thing, right, you think, oh,
this is my normal, Yes, not realizing your normal steps
above someone else's. Yes, and also how their world operates
without that, Yeah, definitely, without that, whatever the privilege would
be exactly yeah, exactly. So what makes the notion of
(02:49):
privilege tricky to chat about, I think is for the
longest time, it's been tied to wealth, so people always
thought I'm privileged, and the word privilege meant luxury, wealth, money,
and then I think all these social movements made it
like no, no, no, back to every day, Yeah, what
(03:10):
is privilege? And I think people don't want to seem
like they are in favor. You know, it's easy to
play the victim. It's easy to play the one who's
been wrong done, like you're like, oh my god, like
poor little me. But it's harder to confidently operate in
that Oh yeah I got privilege and then what So
I think people always want to be like no, no, no, no, no,
(03:32):
I do struggling. Yeah I'm struggling too. Yeah, like I'm
just the same as you. They don't want to be
like no actually in that space.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
And I think also because the world loves the underdog
story hundred percent, the victor over struggled, the you know, overcoming.
We love that storyline, it's really hard to buy into like, oh,
I was born with privilege and I have even my mouthlage,
and I'm going to have my great grandchildren will be
(04:01):
privileged for the rest, do you understand. Yeah, it's very uncomfortable,
and as people, we don't want to have uncomfortable conversation.
So that's what makes it really complex. Yeah, And I
think it's also just like being comfortable with being privileged.
Is that hard space to like accept.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Like if someone everyone's like, oh, you know, even you're
in becoming over We had to apply for a visa, yes,
and Tom wouldn't have had to yes. And even just
that conversation of he's seeing you run around get all
the papers together and he's just like, I'm literally just
going to rock up at the Emeralds thing and go
I'm here in Australia and Dundale.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You're a tourist. Why would you need to?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And I think it's that like uncomfortable nature of it
of like you, I see you struggling and I don't
have to and I had no say in us being different, yes,
because it's like, well what did Tom do to not
to have that? What did he himself do to be check?
And Australia and Europe have a good relationship. You can
(05:02):
just rock up. What did you do to be Zimbabwean
and have to apply for a visa and coming to
Australia as a bigger ass? Yeah, we did nothing. We
just existed And then why are we so different? It's
such a great comfortable right, it's a great example. Can
I ask, though, when did you realize you had some privilege? I?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Oh, this is whoa take me back?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, because you know, obviously you know, we've talked a
lot on this podcast about our lack of privilege in
a lot of areas, whether it was colonialism, whether it
was you know.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Patriarchy, whatever. But the truth is, we are aware that
we do have privilege. But do you remember the first
time you were aware? It probably has to tie back
to our classes. An episode where it's like North versus South. Yes,
you know, when you go to a school with other
white people in this when you have a friend, if
(06:01):
you yourself don't have a simming pool, they have a
swimming pool in their backyard. Yeah, you know, it's those
within family setups. Was gonna we I don't think we
could articulate.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
What it was for me. It was when we went
to Kumusha.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yes, oh my god, yes, and we were young and
you'd see people running after the car and like you've
never seen a car and then you get there and
everyone's excited to have you there.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And how our parents would have to take a lot
of gifts and things for them and like food and
you have.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
All these visitors and within the food electricity, right, so
your parents wouldn't be buying fresh milk, you would be
long life milks like oh my god, it's it's and how.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
You look at you, like oh your dress or your
shoes or you know, or then where I think our
parents talk about an example where my brother asked when
he was really young and we go Kumusha is like
rural areas village where my dad came from or comes from,
and he was like, when are we watching TV?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Like do you get what I'm saying? And they all
just look at you like.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Like you know, or like where's the bed when we
sleep on the floor? And then they're like, wow, you've
nailed it, because that.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Is yeah, and we think it's an experience like.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Oh we need to get excited bathing in a dish, Okay,
we can run around.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
The foot, yeah, going to try and fetch water? What
what all that?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And then that's someone's daily life, your little holiday, which
is what like with tourism as well, right, people like
go to these countries and set up like schools or whatever.
People are like, oh, you're just your tourists shopping for
like poverty shopping means it seems like it's that someone's
everyday life exactly, But in a way, we were doing
that in our own space exactly because for a week
(07:55):
it's fun to go no bath in the river, but
hey come week two, I yeah, me, I want my
shower exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
It's crazy, right, whish I never thought of it that way.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
And then automatically with that privilege, it's people want to
be closer to you because there is that I guess,
and we're talking about financial privilege compared to our families,
like extended families, So people want to be closer to
people who have more access. So people are friendlier to
you or nicer to you, or sometimes was the reverse,
they meaner to you because they you know, you have
(08:28):
that privilege over them, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Like comfort yourself with your bed, yes, you know, like
just you know you're fine, we can attack you because
you actually take it right, Yeah, with grace.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I mean if we even listed different types of privilege
and the layers around them, we're gonna go there because
that's what we do on this podcast. Even like the
first one that comes to mind is obviously white privilege.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yes, what do you think about that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That's a very very layered topic.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I think.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
It's in everything right, because it's quite interesting. I have
this conversation with my husband and we talk about I'll
ask him sometimes like would you ever want to be
black like me, you know, like a black woman like
And he's like exactly, He's like no, I think now
because he's seen what we go through and he is
(09:24):
a way that he's operated with that privilege. And I
think it's in everything right. Like, Oh, for example, the
other day, I was talking about how we dress, and
I was like, black people, we're very conscious of how
we look. You don't want to look like you're homeless
because if you look homeless, people are afraid of you.
They think you're going to rob them, attack them or
something like that. Whereas our white counterparts can just move
(09:46):
around looking like a hobos and it's fine. And it's
like that's a form of white privilege, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I mean even in the workspaces, like we talked about
this other day. If I rock up to a meeting
just looking jeans and a tea and this is like
a corporate meetings like anyone else.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Like, oh yeah, it's casual Friday.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
For me, It's like Okay, what's wrong, you know, or
the undermine my intelligence because I must look like so
I have to always look good. Yes, put on put together,
you know, even the days of people laughing, you know,
working from home, you can wear sweatsh yeah, you know.
And I've mentioned, I think I've mentioned before on the
podcast about living in the Czech Republic. How as soon
(10:28):
as you step out the door, I'm very conscious of
who I am and my skin and being aware of
not being threatening, being polite, smiling, but also.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
In the background you not too you know.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So things like that where you have to think about
how you are perceived constantly is a privilege? Is an
what's the opposite of privilege? It's a handicap that I
have compared to yeah, someone.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, but you can go in what about and this
is a good one white passing. Oh not that I'm
white passing. So I'm just gonna talk as if. But
isn't that handy because you can, like you can go
both sides. Yes, you know, you can, you know, can
invite it to the cookout, but you also can be
(11:16):
people don't even realize. Yes, and you know in Australia,
I mean similar to African American experience. We've got first
nations people and some of them are white passing, and
there is privileged people are like, oh your first nation,
like people don't even like and there's a take back.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Like oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
And that even that us like why does it make
a difference? But it does, right, that's why you're acknowledging.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
In South Africa and you know in a part day
they used to the and I think also in America
during slavery they use the pencil.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yes, or like a brown paper bag.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
How if the pencil fell through your hair, got more privilege?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, it sounds so stupid, like yeah, well brown paper
bag comparing you how life you are compared or dark
you are compared. Yeah, there is privilege with it because obviously, yeah,
you can tow the line. And like I'll have to say,
even Jerome now being a biracial child so far, he
looks white passing.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Sometimes his hair is coming through the Thank God for
the afro. His hair is giving him away.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's like oh yeah, but like it's sometimes I see
him in daycare, when I see my around other kids,
it's like, oh okay, I get it. And even when
I pick him up, the educators that don't know me
will like point me to the black kid and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, I'm.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Here for that one. That one's mine.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You know, they're like, oh, and I think when I'm
traveling with him, am I gonna look like the help? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Exactly when I'm with this, And then you have to
think about also how you look being presentable?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Lord? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about male privilege?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Oh I can go in man's plaining, Oh my god,
and I hate men's plainings, brou but yeah, tied to patriarchy, yeah,
to you know, just like the respect they get. I
think watching the Bobby Movie again again, you know, our
last season was very much Bobby era, very influenced by that.
(13:10):
And how can leaving the Bobby world went into the
real world and saw the amount of privilege that men
had so enticed by that, I think that was a
great depiction of like male privilege. You know, like you
can just anything goes, You're respected, you don't have to
(13:31):
you can be arrogant and it's confident. Absolutely, you can
be a dick and it's like, oh he gets the
job done. Exactly On a farther level, if you just
told your child people are like.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
You're such a great ya. Oh wow, you changed that piece.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Whoa.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, the bar is low, so low, So like I
would consider being a male just for that privilege.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah right, you don't have to show up really and.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Also even if you think about on a health perspective, Yeah,
they were talking about hormones and like how men wake
up with tosterone and it's pretty much on the same
keen level and women we go through the I think
in one week where it's like things are good, yeah,
and the rest of the time we're finding some sort
of struggle.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
My sister was telling me.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
That population what is a luteal phases and all you
can go deep into a child in the biology book
and you'll see yeah, like and you're like, okay, so
we are actually governed by our hormones and men are like.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Oh, you guys are being difficult because they never have that.
I have that.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
My sister explains, I don't know what it's called, guys,
I'm very bad with terminology, but how men go through
a certain phases, like a cycle, like maybe.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Our whole cycle luteo whatever. Men like they do it
in the space of a day. So that's why they
can be consistent.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
They can consistently wake up, go to the gym with
know like, oh do I feel like it? Or so emotional,
but women like it's a different ball game.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And then obviously the world.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Is made easy for men.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
It's all, you know, constructed, so men can thrive and
we're as women trying to fit into that.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Right, that's sad, so sad.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
What about gender, I think having said that about males
quite funny because sometimes there is a bit of gender
privilege being a female.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Like even if you think about.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Ukraine or Gaza, people are like the women and the children. Yeah,
the men have to stay back and find Yes, it's
like I've never.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Had a gun before. I'm sure some guys are like
I don't want to, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, so there is a bit of obviously we're more protected,
I guess, and there's in a patriarchal society, society with
damsels in distress, but it has its privileges.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Even like on a day two pays. Yeah, a lot
of men or.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Even if my my tire punctures, it's okay if I
look helpless it it was a male I wish. I'm
sure you're like to even like my husband finds it
so hard to ask for help. Yes, even in a store,
he will like go come back, and I didn't find it.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I looked and did you ask?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, asking because it's I can't look helpless.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yes, yeah, where's women?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
It was like I'll find and even I even have
purpose is sometimes acted dumb to get what I need
because I'm just like it's playing to this guy's ego. Ego, Yes,
and they will need to get what we need and
move on.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, so true. So this nice to be a woman. Yeah,
you're like carrying stuff. Don't carry that, you're so gentle,
just please my nails.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, exactly exactly, I mean carrying on for that. What
about heterosexual privilege, oh.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Thousand percent, Like you don't have to go to the bathroom.
You just don't even think twice, like you're like, oh,
of course, like I go here and you go there,
or like just the way marriage is set up for
the longest time. You know a lot of people are
not still to this day able to be married or
together because of laws and restrictions. I mean we come
(16:58):
from a country where it's a legal yeah, which is
like wild illegal like proper, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And then this appears like you gander where they're mandating
that you can just do whatever you want. If you're
someone who's not hereterosexual, we can just beat you up. Yeah,
And it's like in the world twenty four is still
arguing over this, like what does my love life have
to do with anybody else?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah, So definitely, I think there's privilege in just being
able to just we heard stories.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Of ok, people making cakes for weddings and not realizing
it's like a gay couple or something, and then once
they do, like you know in the South, like in America,
and once they do, they don't want to put like
two males on the you know, the topper.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So they refuse. So oh yeah, refuse service. And you're like, why,
how is it exact same cake you're making. How's it
affecting you're paying you? Yeah, how's it affecting anyway? Which
is there's definitely publiged in that space.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Tying on to that, it's sister gender. I think I
mentioned it with the with the toilet thing.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, yeah, or even like how how does it feel
to be comfortable knowing you are who you are?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
And then someone who doesn't We need.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
To allow space for that yeah, like I don't know
how it feel to think, Okay, I'm born female, but
I don't feel yeah, and then how do I now operate?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
And then it all filters a young age, right, like
how they define you when you're born, right.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Like you have a baby, healthy baby boy and for
the rest of your life and toys you get, toy
cars you get and it's just like, really all society
is molded in this like male female, and this is
who you are and anything in between.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
It's like, we don't know what to do with that. Yeah, yeah, kind.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Of, I mean moving off that, and I mean we
touched this a bit about this with Zimbabwe, but what
about socio economic privilege like money.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I mean money really governs the world. And then we
can go in and we've talked about obviously classism in
our previous episodes in Zimbabwetha rives all this and it's
the level of respect some people get just because you
look like you are well to do so you deserve
more respect, which is if anyone I was watching Succession
(19:18):
on the plane, I've been talking.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I've been I think every day I've.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Been mentioning this, watching Succession, and you're seeing this these
hyper privileged people, and I'm like, who, what, Why the
hell do they deserve any respect from anybody? Like they
have no conscience, They're just so selfish and you know,
but the world we live in will give them many
many chances to be misogynists and whatnot and what not
(19:43):
because of their socio economic standing as compared to someone
who isn't well. They also treat you like your disposal boy, yes,
because in some ways to them.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You are Yeah, I can buy you, I can.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
But do you think opposite thinking, especially like now in
terms of inheritance and things like that, Like obviously always
thinking about how to improve each generation and generational wealth.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Is a thing. Yeah, you talked about that as well.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Do you think there's a way to operate when you
are more well to do financially like without how do
you help that?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I think be a human, have a heart, I don't know,
humble yourself. Maybe they need to go kumosha as well
once in a while.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yes, you did speak about that, and that probably now
I look back on and yeah, those are probably humbling experiences.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You get back home and switching on.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
That light like you're like a Charlie, I'm glad I
have electricity exactly. And I think even like you can
teach people to be good humans, bright like you, because
I think assholes are taught or nurtured one So just
teach people to have some level of consideration. Tying into
pet peeves about not making, you know, raising your child
(20:52):
like you don't you can't move around them better than
you because X Y Z, And just like respect for
people and understand of where people come from doesn't mean
you have to like everyone. Doesn't mean you have to
sit and take everything from everyone, but at least not
be a dickhead.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, I mean really, succession is really bad. That's really
got you in your fields to record. What about being
able bodied? Oh, privilege of being able bodied?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I am so ashamed to admit that I never thought
about this until I had a child. Yeah, because then
I had to use a pram. And when you use
a PRAM, you obviously use the same services that someone
in a wheelchair, for example, would have to use. And
now going to the shopping mall is a whole different experience. Yes,
(21:46):
I'm like, where's the nearest lift?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Where?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Like, even the way I map the shopping mall is
now different, and I find myself thinking why aren't they
enough lifts escalators or there's someplings I can't go even
the cinema. I've never been to the cinema using an elevator,
like at my local cinema.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And they're like it's all the way in the backs
some corner.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You knowing, You're like, wow, so true, and isn't funny
that able bodied people?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
You know, when there's disabled parking sometimes you're like, there's
so much disabled parking, man.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Like it's annoying, especially when you can't find parking, which
is such an able body thing to be like, oh
or parking there, yes, exactly, even worse exactly exactly so.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
That and then you know you're.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Just assuming like oh they can make it, make do,
but like really they can't. And I think for me,
my father in law is you know, seeing how he's grappled,
like I think that's also shown me like we really don't.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Like yeah, think about this.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
But having said that, do you think he can also
be used opposite, like to get ahead, like yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Like fast of Storius, he's actually getting out of jail.
Did you see that?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
No, yes, parole is like ten years is already it's
been ten years girl.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, yeah, up for parole and you know in South
Africa it will be granted like it's not even.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah yeah, that sounds like I can't be racist because
you know in this context.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, but wow, I mean, but I gotta know.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I mean, they're facing so many different things that I
think it's okay to sometimes play up that card.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah for sure, because in most.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Spaces you're added, yes, when you're not able bodied. So
and I hate the assumption sometimes when you're disabled physically,
especially that you are also mentally. Oh yeah, especially in
our community, you're not to.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Be seen, you're not the way tucked away. Did you
pray enough?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Because if you hadn't prayed, that's why he or she
turned out this way. So it's like it's almost like
a death sentence. And in a space like zimbabwesh because
I don't even know even schools.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yes, yeah I think there was one.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I think that new or something I know, but the
whole of Zimbable goes to this one school.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah, it's wilds so true. I must say. In our
family extended family, we have a relative who was wheelchair
ridden but was always there the family gather that always
like always there, so that's that's pretty dope.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
But about religion, the privilege.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And we're seeing the issues just feeling privileged in the
Gaza conflict because it's like one person feels their right
and I think there's a privilege to being Christian. Yeah,
I feel like there is, you know, a privilege to
being Jewish, like because obviously being very conscious they went
(24:49):
through a lot, like you know, with Holocaust and all this,
but there's a handicapped being like Muslim or you know,
it's because.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
People don't understand your religious like ninety eleven did not
help Muslims at all, because now Americans and people who
drive that type of media just think, yes, you know,
the worst at airport's.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Exactly exactly, so they see the distinction, right, and especially
because their religion is quite visible for women to wear
burkers and you know, so then it's quite in your face,
and I think, if I'm not mistaken, in the Czech Republic,
they banned the wearing of burkers in France as.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Well something and I was like, so what now, how yeah,
how like how does that affect you?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
But just so you don't intimidate.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Or like, you know, and the assumption that Christians have
that Muslims, especially when comes to women.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
It's tied to oppression.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, well there's some women who love their religion.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
It's not type to pressure the same way Christians are.
But it's like yeah, definitely, or if you're atheist, then
you don't believe in anything. And now people are like,
let's pray, like to.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Whom I got, did I send them a Bible versus yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Like stop and I've noticed I don't know if you
have the same thing. We notice a lot with myself.
When he comes to Zimbabwe especially, I just tell him
put up with He doesn't have a right to say,
oh no, I don't want to just sit there like
a chat, or I'll step outside out of respect to you.
And if you think about it on like a you know,
on a basic level, he is meant to say, you know, look,
(26:31):
this is not because why would he stay in the
room and pretend to appease you, And yet you don't
want to do the opposite where it's like, okay, let's
not pray.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Because it makes him uncomfortable for sure, and you don't
go to church. You know, they don't understand that.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
They're just like it's like that I don't eat meat.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Remove the meat guy you have. It's like, I just
not how it works.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
I remember when I I had my vegan era and
I'll be like, oh, I'm vegan what and I don't
eat meat? Oh, so make chicken and I'm like, or
we'll make eggs.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Well you know then that actually shows that the privilege
in itself exactly where you can just operate without any
of these tolerances to food and people respect that they'll
consider to consider you.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
We really someone needs to do a movie like with
just Zimbos and how left field.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, yeah they can. There's so many WTF moments like
being a Zimbable and you're just like yeah, and you
have to roll the person. You can't find any one always,
you can't fight me up. It's like no, don't just
take the meat out, like the meat cooked in.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Like they're like, okay, what about passport privilege?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And I feel like you can talk on this because shifts.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I have seen the ship on my own personal journey,
obviously being Zimbabwe when I came to Australia, then becoming
an Australian citizen and traveling under both passports is literally
day and night. Yeah, I have never thought about anything.
When I'm on Australian one. I'm just like sometimes I
probably think if someone was going to ask me for
a visa, I probably rock up with that one and
(28:19):
go oh oops, because I forgot all about it. I
think when you go to Brazil or something, you have
to apply for a visa before, even as an Australian,
so you have to get like yellow.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Fever and all these things.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
But that's the only place everywhere else has been like
just in yeah, yeah, you want to come see our country,
just walk on the converse, you know. And then Zimbabwe
is the utter opposite.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Of like when I was applying for my visa here,
and I think I also had a level of privilege
a because of where I now live, yeah, and b
because of who I'm married to. But like, for instance,
his visa that he applied in solidarity with me, he went.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
The same as me. He gotta love Tom solidarity.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
He went the same route with me for the application,
and his visa came out before mine. Child, don't you
read the yeah exactly the fact it was quick fus
like literally we applied the same same information, same time,
sent the same time. His came out maybe two three
weeks prior to mine, and for me, it was like
(29:27):
I think they were like, girl, just remember which passed.
You just sweared out a little a little bit longer,
just a little And if you think about opportunities missed, yes,
it's like, yeah, I couldn't get a visa, Yes, you know,
and they say, okay, the next person. If it's for
a job or whatever, they're not gonna wait. If it's
something that needs to be done, they're around for you.
(29:47):
And even then I had privilege of having traveled before
we get into that. Yeah, because then, I mean, part
of the visa application is like proof of travel, proof
of visa. I don't know how many million stamps I
was just putting in the thing to show, to show
that I actually have seen parts of the world and
photos too, right, like you know, like that's literally someone.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Has to really, Yes, you show them your whole life, your.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Whole life, where if someone's never had that, you are
already step back.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I remember when applying for my cousin to come, and
obviously this was when I just given birth and I
wanted to support and I remember it was like, okay,
now we've never traveled anywhere, and I had to play
that my mom's dead card, like you know, I had
to be like I need support card, mental health card,
you know, like, and I'm sure the person reading this
(30:38):
was like, this is a risk. And even then they
only gave them a single entry three months to the
bare minimum, like we're chancing it, yeah, you know, and
even then they first denied it before.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
As you know.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
So it's like after all that, if you've never been anywhere,
when when you're gonna get the opportunity to go anywhere?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
If you can't.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
And here's the kicker though, is I know Zimbabweans that
are way more traveled than people I've met in the
so called first world country, and we love to travel.
It's not for lack of I think obviously because of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
We are just more.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
But even for pleasure and leisure, we like to travel
or we're curious. And I'm like, we still manage to
do it, holding the green bomba make it work, make
it work, so willing to be willing to suffer for that?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I mean carrying on from that obviously birthplace then becomes
a privilege something you don't even decide, yes, like your parents.
Just when I'm bammed somewhere and your mom was like,
I'll just give birth here and then that decides the
rest of your life. People do those travel passport tourism, Yes,
(31:49):
what is it tourism pregnancies? Yes, where they go to
countries when they know if I give birth to this country,
my child will be a citizen, you know in some
place like Switzerland, I think, where it doesn't matter if
you're one here, you'll never be never be like also
the yeah, yeah, so isn't that just crazy? Yeah, it's
insane because you don't choose. That's why saying is.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Lack of the draw where you're born, Like, you don't
choose who your family is, even if you dial it
down on a micro levelism, you don't choose if you're
born north of Samura or.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
South of like you weren't like birth me here.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
That's just and yeah exactly so definitely a lot of
privilege there.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
So what about location privilege? I guess what I mean,
like that.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Same as like north or south, or like being born
in as opposed to a smaller town.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, also where you live, like now like you're living
here in Melbourne, yes, living, I don't know somewhere else,
you know, the.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah. Yeah, regional areas obviously getting less or more expensive
stuff because it's taken so much to get it there.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, it's crazy, so much like every decision actually think
about it is like okay, privilege, but how are you
gonna live with this go around apologics? Yeah, geographical is
the same. I mean, there's no reason why we were
born in Southern Africa as opposed to like South Sudan
and the civil war you know what this daily exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
That's a good point to remember because I remember so
many times in my life I was like, why was
I born Zimbabwean from this little country with all these
issues and this freaking passport and you can go on.
But it's also a good reminder that others have it
worse and they also didn't even choose.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
So yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Can't imagine fleeing from my country literally from having to like,
I think the most for me modern day seeing that
happen was obviously Ukraine. Yes, that was a wake up
call for me because I'd never really seen like people fleeing,
people fleeing and people talk of it, but I think
maybe the documentation obviously of Ukraine was on a much
different scale to other countries, which is another situation in itself. Yes,
(34:14):
but seeing like all these people just uprooted and Russia
is coming, and it's like.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Imagine, can you imagine?
Speaker 3 (34:21):
And I'm like, yo, people are moving back, moving back home.
They're like we done with y'all and being like discriminated against.
So yeah, what about the ooh the privilege of non immigration?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh tell us girl.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Do we even need to go into as someone who's
obviously not celebrating Christmas anywhere near my family?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Like you imagine that? Yeah, just dad is down the road.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
And it's WoT to me to think you can exist
in a world where your siblings, your parents, you live
in the same friends, your workmates.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
And that's your life everything. It does not exist. My
brain cannot cogniate when you.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Travel somewhere it's for traveling for pleasure or business, not
because that's your home away from home.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
That's wild. Your home is your home.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Imagine like us having grown up in sin gone to
the schools you went to, and then stayed there for university,
for university work, our family. I feel like I'll be
a different person you would be even just hearing that,
I'm like, would even recognize myself because.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
How would you operate. Yeah, you wouldn't even think.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Because our parents when they grew up, like they were
quick for us to return back to Oh yeah, like
they were like they went outside for education, Like okay,
if that if the scholarships or whatever they were given.
A lot of them were on scholarships had been granted
within the homeland, they would have just you know, if
it wasn't like, oh, come to Oxford or comege whatever,
(36:00):
they would have just stayed.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, And then I still did stay. They graduated and
packed up and moved back.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Because I think my parents like graduated university and immediately
like moved back, bought a house, got married.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I was just like, and nothing irks me more than
when our parents don't understand that it's different for us, Yes,
because it's like, no, I don't have to balance always thinking. Oh,
like when you wake up there's a thousand calls on
your phone and you're like, if I was just home,
I would just pop on over. Yes, that's like it's
completely different ball game, or when you have to have
a holiday away from your holiday because when you go
(36:36):
home for two weeks, stress, stress, working, slaving, Oh, we're
going to have a barbecue for you, but you're slavy.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Give us that money and making in Australia will check
Republic and you're like that's crazy, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
What about like transportation, like this is such a you
talked about going Musha and yeah, not having access obviously
to a car, yes, or like we have the comfort
of that, you know, even for example, my grandma who's
passed away now, she lived in rural Zimbabwe and she
(37:14):
was ill and they had to get a car to
transport her from the village to the city when she
passed away.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
But just that having to mission to get that, or
even things like ambulance like in zim Gary I've forgotten
his surname of Zimbabwean artists passed. My parents who passed away,
he couldn't get to a hospital in time. He could
have survived, but because of that lack of access to
medical transportation lost his life. That I think that's a
(37:48):
clear black and white of like access to how can
it can be such a make such a major difference.
And on the converse, I think I've seen it save
the life of my father in law because he was
able to get immediate access to the ambulance yea, and
get immediately served like in the in the hospital and operated.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
On even when we were attual for your hairdresser, she's like, oh,
I have to leave here by this time if I
don't go, yes, And it's like okay, obviously certain areas
have more public transport than other areas and we have
to be cognizant of that, like oh wow, okay, yeah,
we have to get you home.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, or at least drop you somewhere yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Whereas some people would never think that you just jump
in your car, but we need to go, or you
do have public transport, yeah, Like I remember my like
parent now she's always complaining about how Australia's public transports
st compared to Europe, where it's like you know, no,
you don't actually look at you like a lot of time.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Yeah, in Europe Czech Republic, where they're like, oh you
have a car, like it's actually like not a necessity
because of that, but like yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah, So you're is this this thing be deep? This?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
I like this one because I think I saw TikTok
recently talking about it. Okay, beauty and the privilege, pretty yeah,
I saw TikTok about use your pretty privilege?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
How do you feel about that? Well, I think I
talked about it.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
We're talking about males female and I said, sometimes I've had.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
To like flatter, flick the hair. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I guess I've never really had to use it when
it's in the monst like it's always with males. I
suppose I've never had to really, I don't think it
really works with I don't know with other females, women's,
women's even women I hate us. Yeah we are we
like you think cute, Yeah exactly, but like with men, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Sometimes I tap into it.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Man confession, Yeah, story time, you have to because it's
like to your disposal, like it's like an arsenal, you know.
But having said that, it's annoying when you see someone
else is pretty at yeah, or like it ties in
or white privilege or blonde bobby girl time.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
There's someone who's more privileged in that. But I think also.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Beauty privilege could tie into what we're talking about being presentable.
Oh yeah, and how you present yourself, how you look
compared to someone else, can create opportunities for you. Obviously,
we know you can like pretty privilege. Literally you people
have careers off that yeah, of course, but people be like,
she must have slept with you. Yes, But like beyond that,
I think even just being able to conduct yourself in
(40:39):
a certain way. Put you can do your makeup, you
can look clean and put together like that, people are like, Okay,
you deserve this or treat you this way.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
And then there's like labels as well, even in our dressing.
And obviously say this as a stylist, but like the
way we dress, people would judge, h she wears those
label she must be this person.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Like if I come in you're stepping up in a
chinchilla I mean coat or whatever, y'all will be like
she's that type.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Of person, you know, Yes, definitely, And it's like it's
absolutely a lie. The whole notion of don't judge a
book by its cover when it comes to people, I
think we want people to judge for who we are.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but I.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
On thousand percent think it's not possible, especially a fear
for certain you.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah yeah. Why do you think? Though?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
What we talked about, it's like, oh, can I trust you?
There's an element of like trust and whatever, And I
think it's a form of an icebreaker.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
And I say this not to say that you must
all be about image and how you do. I say
this like, set yourself up for success by being a
bit more cognizant of how you present yourself because then
you have a little less work to do in terms
of breaking certain barriers, which is sad, but it's the
reality the world.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Isn't it crazy that that's from a Western view as well?
Like I remember when I was a kid, if my
mom have addressed in traditional African way, I'd be like,
we are not yes anyway, looking like yes.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Then you then get.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Pride in your own as you grow older, as you
grow older, like what that's my identity? Like it's okay,
yeah for sure, you know for sure. So it's such
a weird thing from whose gays.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Is this coming from? Okay? Definitely? What do you think
about age?
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well, for example, the music industry, the younger you are,
the more successful you'll be. The music industry is willing
to put money behind you and say, okay, you're worth funding.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
And if you're older, oh no, one's gonna want to
buy albums from you.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Im like houseway, Yeah, like maybe I have more life
to tell my music.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
So yeah, that's such a weird one as well, because
that one can work both ways because in zim our
parents did have the privilege that they were born in
that certain era of you know, the Renaissance of Zim
black empowerment, and then like there were loans and all
these things they were given.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
And then now they're like buy a house. You're like
from what with what money?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You know, I have the handicap of being born now
after like financial crisis. So or even if you put
it in a Western way, like a lot of people
will say, like my rent is more than what my parents'
mortgage was, and then they'll be like, oh, buy a house,
because in the seventies or sixties they could, you know,
they could for like much less than what we're buying
houses for now.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
So it's like it works both ways.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
It can be an aging thing, but it'll also be
like you're lucky you were born in that era where
you did have Like I think a friend of the podcast, Christine,
she said to me, were discussing how she was like
with the first generation, I think that's not going to
be more successful than materialistic wise than our parents. Yeah,
(44:00):
because it was always like from the fifties the sixties,
everyone's improving, improving, the moving we got.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Then the shitty end of the stick to be.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, we by friend and our parents peaked and there
Now we're not going.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
To suggest Yeah, that's true. I was going to say too.
In terms of age, I think of my mom at
the time she got married. She said she it was
not possible for her to get alone from the bank
because she was a woman, and like now it's like.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Who you know things like that.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah, or like for example, before women couldn't vote and
now we can vote.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
So there's also that kind of privilege with age and time.
I guess over time things have changed.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
So yeah, I mean there's so many types. You can
sit here all day.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
All day and not at all every but how do
we acknowledge our own privilege? So you're you're in this space,
someone's pointed out something to you, Oh that's just because
you're heterosexual, Well that's because you're whatever. How do you
acknowledge and move with that with knowing your knowing your
privilege or maybe giving a space for those without that
(45:07):
specific place. Yeah, I think it ties into our episode
on Allyship, which is being just listen and be more
supportive and don't come with the energy of all lives
matter we spoke about, don't come with.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
That, you know.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
I think it's also saying it's okay to acknowledge your
privilege because you're also disadvantaged in some aspects.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, yeah, we're not all.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yes, and it's okay to acknowledge it and maybe try
to use your privilege for good to help someone, yeah,
have it a little bit better, and to support someone consideration,
because I think the world tries to sell us this
notion of like for me to succeed and someone needs
to suffer. But I'm like, imagine how progressive the world
(45:56):
gets if we all uplift each other, Like everyone's life
can get a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
It's okay, it's not going to kill you, and you
can acknowledge your privilege.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yes, it's okay too.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Absolutely, it's what you do after you've acknowledged it. That exactly,
because the acknowledgement is obvious. My guy, like a white male,
we don't have to be asking you nil you feel
it or not?
Speaker 2 (46:19):
We know, but like then what And I think it's
a stigma.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
I guess people feel like because immediately, for example, using
the Kardashians, who I love to watch.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
My guilty pleasure.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
You know, we were kind of happy to watch them
when they started off because they were successful but not
too successful, right.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, but now for example, like dealists with people, but
now I mean people on them about for example, Kim's
Christmas decorations, like the amount of money they spend and
all that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
So people typically try to tear.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Down people who have really visible privilege. Yeah, you know,
even even flying private jets trouble for me exactly. So
I think that's why it's so hard to admit your privilege,
but then also use your platform like Kim uses it
for her legal stuff or whatever. Whether or not people
buy into it, that's that's your whatever. I don't even
(47:12):
think I buy into it, to be fair, But at
least she's trying to do something.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
It's better than just being privileged like and actually zooms
libs are terrible for this. They'll be like, ooh, I'm
so privileged, I have this, how's it down there something?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, yeah, look at what I have. At least she's
even trying to be like, let me get you out
of jail.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
I mean, yeah, definitely, because then you'd hope, in her scenario,
should have a good team behind.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
So she's the face of that.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
There's people were actually, yeah, properly looking Okay, it's this
person worthy of exactly zonerating, whereas in the ZIM situations
like okay, who's this helping you?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Showing off your boken.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah no, no, no, but it's so unrelatable ziom syllibs.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Do better, do better.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
But yeah, it's such a great topic, I think because
we don't think about it's nice talk about we suffer,
but it's also good to be like, I also have
some benefits, and you know, and I think we are
quite open about our privilege in certain aspects. Yeah, yeah,
I think when we dropped that CLASSESM episode, yeah, people
(48:19):
were like, okay, these girls are not hiding behind you know. Yeah,
and it's sad that the world operates like that, but yeah,
we have to take a moment to acknowledge that even
to do this podcasts trying to represent there was a
privilege to tied to it's financial privilege, travel privilege.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, yeah, all sorts access access, because.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
That's why we also like always talk about like even
on YouTube, making sure we always have our episodes up
on you. Yeah, because we're like, we know it's very
easily accessible for U Zimbabwe and not everyone can Spotify
hey having a credit card, so you really like, do
you even have the app?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yes? For a while. Wasn't it bailable in South Africa?
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Remember for a long time actually, so that's why people
just go with Apple Music yes as well.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah exactly. Yeah, we hope you enjoyed this. You know
us we can dealt forever.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
But yeah, send us your comments, your thoughts are the
other privileges we didn't even touch on that. We didn't
maybe hear privilege and we can go on.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yeah girl, it's everywhere. But yeah, thanks so much. Yeah,
so good to have you and me.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
This has been crazy recording with you right across. It's
so used to it being like a screen, definitely.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
And now she's heavy, here's pinched me moments.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Thank you for listening and we'll catch you on the
next episode. Bye guys. To t