April 21, 2024 • 42 mins
We have to celebrate all we are as black people and all we have to offer. In this episode we talk about the Beauty in our Blackness.
You know you're black when? What makes us so special? What do we love the most about being black?
We'd love to hear from you!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this
land that we record this podcast on and pay respects
to the elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
We must always remember that under the concrete and asphalt
that this land is, was, and always will be Aboriginal land. Hi,
(00:31):
I'm Ruby, Hi, I'm Amanda.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome to its layered in studio, recorded in Malablle. Can
you believe that? I don't know how many times I
have to say that to believe they're recording in studio.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Believe it, receive it, achieve it. That's a manta right
there for your day. Okay, That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Man,
So we've been having a blast like doing recording the special,
and we wanted to talk about the beauty of our blackness.
I think a lot of the time we talk about
the struggles or the difficult parts about being black and
(01:09):
so on and so forth, but we also wanted to
celebrate ourselves and what it means to be black. But
before we do that, to get into the top, okay, okay,
I wanted to ask you am what you got. The
question is you know you're a black when so finish
the same.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I don't know why I'm cracking up. Okay, share when
you think you can twerk, But what about Minie Cyrus?
She learned to talk, Yeah she learnt, but we think
we can already, but I can't. Yeah, but no, but
you have this notion that you could, don't you or
at least that you can die. Okay that, yes, for sure,
(01:53):
that's true. If someone said, hey, you got no rhthm
oh hell, no, I'm black.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But I also know black people who can't.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah a whole lot, girl. Even some dancers start out
like this a dance l some craakiness.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, that's true for me. I think you know you're
black when you can't disrespect your parents publicly. You know
you'll get a whooping if you try and pretend to
be like too cool for school. You know that those
things are like, there's a me more joke about. I
went to my white friend's house and they were like,
(02:26):
they shouted their mom, no, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I won't do that. First child.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh god, it's like never. And then you tried at home.
We've spoken about me slamming the door on my parents.
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It's still a life.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Loveing mom and dad, please don't pay back me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Is there anything else that you you know you're black
when nothing is yours? Everything has to be shared, like
your bedroom when yous come.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Like, why am I on the floor in my own room?
I think I definitely you know your zimbol. But yeah, definitely,
I think you know you're black when you open the
fridge thinking there's ice cream inkid oh, it's like they
repurpose and stored like leftovers. Brou the heartache, the heart
ache so savage.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I think I still if I still see like a
vanilla or ice cream, but container just assumed there's like
beans or something inside exactly, not ice cream.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, which is why I was saying, like we've been
recycling before. Recycling was a thing.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Very purpose that I think you know you're black when yeah,
you can't speak back to elders, you can't say your
actual thoughts. Yep, we're muscled on another less just keep it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
To yourself in your own head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's so many things. Do you guys feel free to
comment and let us know you know you're black when?
Because I feel like there are so many But I
guess leading into the meat of this topic, what is
blackness to you? Like, what what the hell are we
talking about when you say the beating in our blackness?
(04:07):
What is blackness?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I guess obviously the actually being black, But more importantly,
I think it's just like realizing that due to a
lot of different things, we are in some ways a
marginalized part of society, especially in diaspora, but we're also
a revered part of society. Like a lot of people.
(04:30):
A lot of people use us as reference points. Whether
they want to credit, they really do, but but it's
like a lot of I think for me anyway, that's
how I see it, that we're quite influential without meaning
to be like what's TikTok without all these training dancers
and yeah, I guess particularly in that space African American experience.
(04:51):
But still even right now music afrobeats is having a moment. Yeah,
that's undeniable. So I suppose we've always had. If you
look at music, even history, like rock and roll, even
the blues, all that stuff is rootted in blackness for sure.
So I think we're so we are influential. Yeah, we
leave our mark, but we also allow space for others.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, we're nurturing, welcoming, I feel because we know.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
What it's like to be ostracized, so we're like, because
we know that, we can then hold space for you definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And I think I was as you were speaking, I
was wondering, can we agree there's one universal term for blackness?
And I think it's we can generalize and say there is,
but really obviously there's different kinds of blackness, like a
black Britge is different to black Colombian, different to you know,
(05:49):
like there's so many. Yeah, but on a whole I
think for me, blackness I refer to as like what
we bring to the table on a global scale.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Also, yeah, they say black people create culture often torot
to as the culture on the INTERWEP.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yes, do you agree on thousand percent? You already said it.
I think you know the corn rows people, you know,
the Kim Kardashians doing cornrows wouldn't have done It came
from blackness. And the crazy thing is when you actually
know the root of cornrows, how slaves used to do that,
to to put pathways, yeah, and seeds in their hair
(06:27):
for when they were being transported so that they could
continue their food, you know, when they were So when
you know the history just like Kim K, what do
you know about slavery? But anyway, have been.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Coming for I also want to do celebrate.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I do also like like it, but you know, I'm objective, okay,
But yeah, I think definitely that's the culture. Music, dance,
you know, art, food, There's so many elements of what
we contribute to culture.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah. But I think also having said that, we have
to give a lot of credit to African Americans, yes,
because I think they've pushed the envelope in what is
deemed to be black, yes, and then worldwide obviously with
the push of America and media, it's like this, you know,
this dance that we do, like they're influenced by Africa,
(07:19):
influenced by other black people over the world, but the
reference point always tends to be African American lens. And
I think if we'll say the culture, yes, they are
actually probably referring more to an African American experience. Definitely,
not to minimize what other but I think there's a
huge A lot of times it's Africans who complain like ah,
(07:40):
but or like, you know, you guys make fun of us.
But I think we also have to realize that they've
also pushed for.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Us the envelope. Yes, especially in a world coming from
a world where you know, America has a strong position
in media, and so they've represented us, I guess blackness
well in those spaces, or tried to represent black pass well.
So what are some of the things that black people
created or that we say black people pioneered, that you
(08:08):
love or would like to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh, where do I start?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I mean music is obviously something just touched on. I
think for me that's probably it, because I think for
we spoke about how music is something we can't live without. Yes,
and I think just from us singing even in choirs,
singing as in churches all the way to like you know,
huge productions and studios such as this one. Yes, it's
(08:34):
like we've had our finger on the pulse when it
comes to what people listen to, you know, Order Trey, Yes,
yeah's you know, I just find that I don't know,
it's it's everyone takes their piece of music and you know,
makes it their own, but it's all rooted somehow somewhere
along the line in blackness.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
For sure. You feel as you mentioned Elvis Presley, you know,
the rock and roll Beach Boys, all these people the
influence of that. I agree with music. I also think
in fashion. Remember we watched Next in Fashion and we
watched this season with actually Zimbabwe and born Fara Samoy
(09:16):
and she was talking about her and her partner in
the competition. We're talking about the streetwear and you know
things like rock Away and Boo Hoo boo and all
that and how that really influenced, you know, culture and
how for example, breakdancing helped like really propel editors and
then so on and so forth. If you look at
(09:39):
Michael Jordan, what he did with Nike, Yeah, so many
elements that have influenced and still to this day influence
how we dress. And Aliyah giving us the nineties low
cut genes and whatnot that still lives on to this day.
So definitely, so many elements. And then now we're seeing
(10:03):
this pride, African pride and how we dress, and that's
I think we need to credit West Africa a lot
Nigerians Ganans for being proudly you know, preserving their culture
and their dress so that you know, we too a
Zimbabwe two we often speak about diluted a lot of
our culture can now still feel good and proud about that.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Because they're definitely proud like traditional where everything. Yes, so
it's very different from us, I think, and we've adopted that.
I remember even actual we all wore like traditional. But
then is that even traditional to zim No, not.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
African and African exactly. But I think there's so much
you know, we have if you've watched Hidden Figures, about
the influence of I forget their names in NASA and
how mathematically they impacted that sport. I mean, if you
look at athletes, it's all based off the power and
(11:03):
strength of I guess the slaves that were traded the strongest,
the fastest, who traded off to the US. If you
look at food, so I.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Just feel about seasoning. You know, there's alway those jokes
on TikTok about not seasoning your food.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Probably no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So there's so
many elements of it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, I mean you probably already mentioned it. But what
do you think it is about black people that makes
us beautiful?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think you actually touched on it, which is just
our grace and giving enough space for others. Even though
we go through a lot, we're still able to welcome
and I think that's part of what made us get
colonized by the way, yeah, miss that nice guy exactly,
not me coming back to colonization and like turning. But yeah,
(11:54):
that being willing and willing to share ourselves and our
culture and being communal oriented. I think that's just yeah,
one of the beautiful things about us. Of course we
can go on a physical our skin, our beauty, how
youthful we can look even as we grow older. Just
(12:17):
our style and our pride in how we look. I
don't know our languages, our.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I think if you look, especially when you talked about
the nurturing aspect of us, I think I remember like
even during slavery, they had a lot of nurses. I mean,
like what do they call night nurses? Like for the
kids kids were raised by the help, you know, the
help tended to be black. And I think that that
notion still happens even if you look at Zimbabwe with
the same setup, yes, where it's like we could always
(12:45):
rely on our our mother's yes to hold us up,
you know, no matter if they're suffering and going through
your lot. And I think that permeates and how we
are with other races and how we interact with other races.
You know, there's a lot of prank videos. I see
it a lot of times, it's Black people who actually
step in and say something. You know, something means happenings.
I think we've felt so imaginalized that we're always looking
(13:08):
out for And there's not a bashing of other races
in any respect. It's just us taking time.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
To acknowledge, acknowledge and take.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
A pat on the back of our ancestors that have come,
you know, and impact us and we stand on the
shoulders of today.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And also resilience. I think that's one of the beautiful
things about us that we stood the test of time
in spite of all these things and we and we
are not embittered. Well, obviously there's some people who are.
There's a generalization, but I think that is testament to
just who we are is in spite of we still
(13:43):
are giving and loving and not. Yeah, that's resilience and
it's really really amazing to even think about. But how
do we as black people maintain our beauty in spite
of our suffering? So we've talked about resilience and how
do we actually do that in spite of suffer bring,
alienation and oppression? What do you think it is.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I think we do have a spirit of don't care, okay,
the spirit of confidence, yeah, the spirit of being comfortable
with the space we're in. I find like there's nothing
worse than coming from a styling point of view then
walking into a shop and all the clothes are to
not your size because you've got ass and or hips.
So because you operate always as added, always as left out,
(14:27):
you then almost kind of build the stick skin, this
confidence where it's like, well, they really don't have space
for me, so I got to fit in or or
at least, you know, push myself in, otherwise I'm not there.
I'm not considered at all. And I think when you
always operate like that, it builds this muscle where you're like, well,
I can face anything. And I guess that's the resilience
that you're talking of. But I think that does hold
(14:50):
us well, especially when you move away from our homes.
A lot of us are not living where we were
raised or where we were actually from because of economic reasons,
a lot of times economic, so we just always look
back home as a reference. And this podcast is certainly
rooted in that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Definitely, that aspect definitely, and I think it's telling our
stories too. I remember growing up my grandma would tell
us Gulo's stories and you know, yeah, and things like that.
Like that also verbally right, we're very much like we
(15:27):
orators passed it on, you know, things like that. And
I think we also maintained religion as much as we
spoke about religion and some of the limitations of it. Forgiveness,
I think is a big part of blackness, and that's
what enables us to keep going and not be bitter
and like we we really hold on too religion sometimes
(15:49):
our detriment, but I think sometimes it also helps us
to forgive so we can keep on, you know, not
hold on to the baggage so much, so we can
actually keep going because imagine if we're just like all
the hate just festering, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I mean, even think of South Africa where you lived
for a while. Yes, it's like, how do you move
past aparthid? Do you know? And ninety four is not
when you think of historically, ninety four is not that
long ago at all, and those people are still living
today in some sort of society together. Yeah, you know,
so it does take a lot of forgiveness to move
past those atrocities. So yeah, it's a commendable thing, but
(16:30):
it does have its drawbacks, like are we too forgiving?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I think so are we too just like.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Ah well, I mean life, Yeah, it happens. Or make
it work becau Zimbabweans does make it work. Mentality, A
lot of people are like, why didn't you protest when
you're under dictatorship? Yes, you know why. You can't stand
for that. You might have to take arms, you might
have to bleed on the streets to free yourselves under
that oppression, but we chose to just be.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Like, get that work, get out. I think also to
dance and music. As we've said, we sing and dance
when we're happy, we sing and dance when we're sad
at funerals and things like that. I think that's also
what's carried us. We've already spoken about music, but I'm
talking about it in kind of like the traditional way.
(17:16):
I think that being moving your body. You know, they
talk about it if you want to let go of
stress or anxiety, to move your body, not just physically
like running or exercising, but also dancing and singing. And
I think it's a part of who we are and
I think it helps us to release a lot of
the baggage and the way. My mom always used to
say that she thinks Black Americans can sing incredibly well
(17:40):
because they suffered so much and singing was the only
way to release a lot of that pent up frustration
and hurt, and so they really just she specifically it
was referring to gospel music and how you know they
really like a lot of artists come from gospel mute.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
A lot of them, you know, grew up with that culture. Yes, yeah, yeah,
that's where they hold their voice. Even told they could sing, yes,
because at the young ages they were leading choirs, you know. Yeah,
I mean one of the common elements that you think
can be found in most black cultures or households, you know,
growing up black.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I think it's the whole listen to your elders. Respect
the elders at all costs.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It's all costs, even if they're wrong, even if if
even this wasn't the e pedophile, We're not all got
to like work our way around him in the family.
Just stay away from that, stay away from him.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I'm like, maybe he shouldn't be here exposed, YEA like
to leave us be definitely, I think that respect elements.
I think that not being able to be yourself just
like having a piece of you hidden.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. Do you also think us
like trying to overachieve? You know, Nigerians are now known
I think in the mayor can I and I'm Americans.
They're being seen as they're the ones who in the
next generation are going to be a lot of doctors
and stuff are coming from that background.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Do you think it's just because we're just also trying
to make up, may up for lost time, the pressure,
the pressure, Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yes, I think definitely it's about you. You have to
be super educated, you have to be you know, keep learning,
keep achievement, achieve, achieve, achieve a chief. I think that's
probably universal, having to deal with bearing parts of yourself
so as to meet the requirements and demands of your
parents and society and the burden of that. Yes, we're
(19:42):
talking about this too so many times before.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So yeah, I think, yeah, come back before dark growing
up black as well.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Definitely staying out of don't go to the neighbors. What
don't ask for like when you go visit your friends
or whatever. Don't ask for like water, juice, don't open
the fridge.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Don't eat it's someone out of the house.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, so when you see other kids just going to
another person's.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Fridge, you cannot be doing that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
No, no, no, can not be done. Like who are you?
Do you think that people undermine are beauty as black people.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That they under mine?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, maybe not giving credit where it's you, Yeah, I
think so.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah. I think it's also lack of documentation. Yes, so
see people call like what are the bow Derek braids?
Which were where Kim then said she got an inspiration
for corn Rows because I think she was bo Derek
was on like a Bond movie in the sixties and
she was a Bond girl, one of the one of
the quintessential Bond girls. Probably have seen her. And then
(20:47):
she had like beads coming out of the water ocean
and I think Helen Barry recreated her scene. And it's
like that where it's like, because we have lack of documentation,
it's easier to it's easier to feel in spir yes,
and they're not credit. Yes, you see it on TikTok
all the time. I think they had what the girl
who everyone knows on TikTok the I forgot name now
(21:08):
and she went on Jimmy Fallon and she did all
the dances and they were like, no, Jimmy Fallon, these
are not she didn't come up. These are trends that
are on TikTok and you need to actually call the
original people that were predominantly African American. And it's like
that where it's like, because we don't document our staff,
it's open season, and then putting responsibility on the other
(21:31):
person to do their research and then you know, credit.
But we also need to be a bit more like protective.
I guess yes about it, which I guess we're learning now.
We're becoming more and more like, okay, what's in this
for me, which hasn't typically been the way we've approached things.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, you're so right, that thing of talent. I was
talking about my grandma telling stories to us, you know, yeah,
but never writing. She never wrote down like this is
the story of Tunagulo or what was the other one?
I forget the story, but like it's all I'd have
to ask my mom and she's, you know, we don't document,
(22:12):
and I remember, you know, we've spoken about family trees
and me saying okay, I think we need to put
together family tree. But otherwise you're just like living like
I don't know what my great grand great great grandparents
parent was, who it was, what they did, So yeah,
not documenting enough for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Do you think we ourselves under mine our own blackness
as black people?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yes, And I think it is by virtue of wanting
to be accepted, because sometimes our blackness is a bit
too strange or so wanting to assimilate, so then we
sometimes shun our blackness trying to be more closer to
(22:57):
what Yes, exactly, and I think too we don't appreciate
the beauty of what we do. We speak a lot
about the creative industry in Zababwe and for example, the
sculptors who sell their works on the side of the
road and how people don't really appreciate it's not really
in a lot of museums or galleries. Yeah yeah, yeah,
(23:20):
But had we been European, you know, we would document,
we would you know, value it be priceless things like that.
But then it's like, oh, the creative industry doesn't it's
not an industry. It doesn't work, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's not over exposure of talent though, like you know,
in your family, if all of you can sing, it's
Whitney really gonna, you know, stand out?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Or is it like you know, when you get like
the Braxton family or Jackson family and all of them sing.
Do you think it comes from that? Where do you
think it comes from us trying to? So?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I mean you were joking about, Oh I would sing?
If you know Rumby, why don't you sing? But it's
like I feel like everyone can sing, right, So I
think there's an element of that for sure. But I
also think of it being so common again, I guess commonplace.
So then it's like there's no real value, but also
as valuing professions or things that's seen esteemed in some
(24:18):
degree but not necessarily a core part of who we are, Okay,
I see. And so it's a catch twenty two. And
I think sometimes that all white is right and black
is whack. You can hear rhymes element of it all
and self and self hate, like self hate is a
(24:40):
part of it due to many reasons which we've spoken about.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
We tied it all back to colonialism. Don't we somehow
find our way? It's therefore back.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Pay reparations, reparations, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I think because for so long we're told we're not
good enough. Yes, that now we almost believe it into it. Yeah,
and then if you I mean, one of the things
I love about going to South Africa is seeing black
people on billboards. Oh yeah, because it's such a and
we talked about in our privilege episode. We didn't really
talk about that, like seeing ourselves everywhere as a privilege,
(25:16):
yes or not? Right, And when you live in a
country like this where it's like they're proudly Australian, but
that's also proudly one version of Australian. I mean, there's
First Nations people here too. They should be on billboards
just as much, but it's that they catering to a
certain demographic, certain market. And then it becomes okay, where's
your people want to have blonde hair, they want to
(25:37):
have like contacts in because they you know, they want
to align themselves with whiteness, because that's what they see
and that's what's being perceived. As you know, in my
ideal world, if I had to create a world and
want everyone to be seen equally, and thus the world
is mixed, yeah, you know, everyone sees everyone, everyone sees everything. Yeah,
but like in this scenario where it's like you have
(25:57):
to be a certain body shape, certain to look a
certain hair color, eye color. Then it becomes if you're
not that, you're either going to resent it or you're
going to try and become met There's only two options
for you.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right, But when your hips ain't fitting and then jeans, girl,
what you're gonna do? We're leggings. Would you ever consider
or want to be anything but black, even just for
a day.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh, you know, it's quite sad that I've actually stopped
to answer that, right, Yeah, I just meant to be,
oh well, love being black. I think I would want
to be a white guy named Paul.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I don't know, but just around with that energy
so people aren't judging, respect, respect my name as soon
as how white guy and still get like excellent results.
That's what I really think.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
That's what I would love to experience. Just how does
it feel like? Because if I'm too confident, I'm bitchy. Yeah,
if I'm too quiet, I'm meek, I don't know anything,
or I'm dumb. If I'm too like everything, I'm too
And if you move all those twos and you soften
yourself up, who are you? You've lost that quirk that
makes you that person.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
So sometimes I'm like, what does it feel to be average? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I still have the cornfeet.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I still have people be like, who are talented? Come on,
that's I'm just talking about the general Joe who can
still somebody you know, revered or think of himself as
I forgot.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
It, I got it, I'm the ish. Yeah, what do
you think? I definitely just one day. I'm not forever,
because I also like my rhythm and you know, I
like my hair. There's a lot I like about myself.
I like my hair, like you know, But just to
be like, wow, how the other whatever? Fifty percent said.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Tying it back to the Bobby movie when Ken left
Barbie Land and it's like.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Oh, life like this, It's good. Good. I'd love to
experience that for a day. But then I think, like
we offer so much, And I think part of the
journey of life is to embrace all of you and
to love being you, because there's no point wishing to
be what you're not. Yeah, because you're denying a part
(28:22):
of yourself. So I think I've worked too hard to
embrace myself and appreciate myself to just be like, oh, yeah,
I take it.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know, I think I would only like it in
spaces where decisions have to be made. Yes. So like
you know, when you saw Beyonce on the Renaissance movie
spoiler a lot, but she pretty much wants certain lighting
or certain fish eye camera. Yeah, and they're like, you
don't have you don't have it. You know, that's the
widest we've got yet. I used Google and obviously don't
(28:53):
want to Beyonce. So you know, there is access to money,
there's access to It's not like they can turn around
and say, oh, you can't afford it. Yes, we decided
for you know. Then they're like, oh, yeah, it is there.
Like usually their response was oh yeah, So either they're
trying to fuller it and make it seem more too lazy.
They assumed she didn't know what she was talking about.
But whatever the situation was made me think had that
(29:16):
conversation happened with the assistant assistant assistant assistant of the director,
who's a white guy, then it would have been fine.
You know, even if it was just someone who has
no experience, they would have been like, oh, he knows
what you're talking about. But it was just Beyonce and
it's still making a question.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
When I saw that, I was like, it's late for me.
What a good luck?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So I think I would love it when it's like
decision making time, because then the respect would be there,
the being able to just say what I want to
say in mind and not be judged yes.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Or definitely accused or not?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Should I keep quiet or should I
push in this space and then keep quiet on that one?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I can't push on every angle again, bringing back to succession,
just because I've been that dad whatever it was the
name logan, Oh my gosh, Like he feels like he
deserves the world and to have his cake eat it
too and then yours and nobody can tell him nothing.
And that's kind of I'm about bad life just for
(30:16):
a day, because I think you also need to be nice,
just to be nice.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, what is it about blackness that you feel then
intimidates other races? If there is?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I think we have that source cuf flavor, we have
that thing that she can't put your finger on. It's
the X factor that it thing. So it's like, how
come you get to have that and I don't? And
that's why they try to emulate us Maley cyrus.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
That you're talking to someone specific.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
So that's why they try to emulate or to be it,
because it's like but they do it, but they still
can't do it, like how we do? You know what
I mean? And I think that's why people struggle to
embrace and I think, yeah, for fear of being what's
the word not washed out, but like being made redundant?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Okay, okay, yeah, again, you have to keep yourself relevant.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, and the fact that we've been able to stay
relevant and you know, push boundaries in spite of all
the oppression.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
If we were allowed to be our full self Yoko your.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
World watch it. I don't think they would have been
able to handle it.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
But don't you think and this is plain Devil's advocate
that they could, you know, especially like let's say, for example,
white people can think the same thing about us trying
to emulate them, you know, the wearing of context to
have different color eyes. Okay, but a problematic my waves
sammaring a weave today like that type of vibe that okay,
but then if you're so proud, why can't you just
(31:52):
because you guys didn't let us sorry, Yeah, exactly, if
I wear my AFRO at work, it'll be condeemed, it'd
be deem unprofessional. Yes, so because you do that, then
I'm forced.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
To Yeah, you guys said it a lie that we
are made to not fully embrace all of us. Sorry,
I'm not going to give them that.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I like, no, you tried, but no, I think the
loudness is intimidating. We're typically like we spoke about going
back to our first episode of the special, how you
think you're an intro of it? And I said, if
I didn't know you, I would probably think, oh my gosh,
it's very loud, it's confident. So those things can be
seen I think by other races to be intimidating, you know,
(32:33):
like we don't know. We also don't respect space because
our culture doesn't respect.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Space online, especially bubwins. We take over and I'm like
relaxed at of thing is like people marrying due to
different cultures. They expect you to just adopt the Zimbabwean culture.
I had to do fifty five to remind me, like,
there's a whole other person with a whole other culture.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Can we respect just assume yours is the one to
be revered and followed too, confy.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
So now we're too confy, even in the oppression where
too CONFI imagine if we were up a last time,
you know, it's too much. I feel like calm down.
Like Rama said, what would you say to a young
black person trying to find the beauty in their blackness
in the madness of our world? What would you say?
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I would say, don't compare yourself. There's no other you. Yeah, like,
I think that's quite important to you. Want to fit in,
of course, but don't fit into the point where it's
like you're not you. Yeah, Celebrate those parts of you.
Educate those parts of you. You know, sometimes people just
(33:42):
shun or seem like they're not interest because they don't know.
We're all waiting to be exposed to things. I know.
When I first moved to Australia, Asian culture was a
whole big exposure for me as well, because at home
was just everyone's Asian Chinese. You know, it is Chinese, Like, no,
there's this whole continent that's not just so I think,
(34:04):
like it took a lot of education for me, took
a lot of interest, took a lot of for me
to be like to peel away and understand the culture,
and I think a lot of times people just look
at its surface level. Yes, and I think I'll say
advice to people who feel misunderstood and sometimes maybe stop
it sucks. You have to be always in an education
but when you are a minority, obviously some part of
(34:27):
you might always have to stay in that learning or
educating space, just so that people when they interact with
you can walk away better for it. They understand the
nuances within blackness. Whereas if you just do everything to
fit in and lose yourself, you're not benefiting what got
you there to begin with.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
True, and you also have to be the bigger person,
which is like her saying learning It's like why can't
people learn about me? But it's just unfortunately the way
the world is wired. But also learning, think of learning
for your benefit as a man that has said, I
think also finding your community that helps you believe in
and celebrate who you are, especially when you are a
(35:10):
minority or away from home, or find a community even
who you follow on social media. Find community that feeds
you to feel like, okay, I see myself. That's how
you talk about representations. So kids of today, gen Zas,
you're so lucky to grow up in a world where
you can see people who look like you in so
many spaces. When we grew up, we had magazines and
(35:33):
never it's just like it was whitewashed.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
That's why Naomi Cumbll is like a mother because we're
like even people tell stories about her being a devout
better Saomi untouchable because she was the first supermodel we
saw on ad campaign.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Worldwide exactly, so in dark skin exactly. But now you
can really curate your feed to feed you and encourage you. Yeah,
and you know it helps you also develop a level
of like, Okay, I'm not the only one.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And I think truly your difference is something to celebrate
because in a way you can bring to the table
something people don't have that's special. Yeah, it is, it is, Yeah,
it definitely is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah. What do you want the world to know or
change their predudices about blackness?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I would love the world not to be so afraid
of it. It's not contagious. You're not gonna touch me
and get black. I don't know, there's no other way
to put it. It's it's And one thing I really
want the world to know is we are just human,
like you.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, oh that part.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
We're just we feel the same. We cry like you,
we're scared like you. We we're happy like you. We
literally how you feel.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
We have the same.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
We're not We're not an animal. We're not like monkeys.
We're not. It's just we're just humans, just like you,
with the exact same emotions, feelings, and we're just asking
for a room to be alive and just respect.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah. Yeah, now if I agree with you, co sign.
And I also think I would just add on to
say that we're not here for other people's entertainment. Say,
I hate it when people are like, oh my gosh,
you got some Yeah, go girl, and it's like stop,
like teach me how to tour it. That's African American.
I'm not even African American. I don't speak like that.
(37:34):
And even if I do this, my choice, like it's
just don't walk around assuming you know a lot and
then putting those assumptions onto me. Blackness is very nuanced.
You first nations, black person, me, African, African American, you know, Latina,
all these different we're all the same way. You can
(37:55):
assume someone from Finland and someone from Australia might not
be same for same. It's the same way we operate too.
So I think sometimes it's like you're black and it's
like one one color one, whereas we know in whiteness
or even sometimes even in Asian culture, you give space
for different versions. And I would like to see that more.
(38:17):
I think, not just painted with the one rush rush.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
You can get a black person who loves rock music
and hates R and B. You can get someone. There's
just so many varieties. And you know, as we always say,
Africa is not a country. Yell, it's not the same.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Just because you met doesn't mean I know them, or
you know a Kenyon doesn't mean I know, Like yeah,
definitely that one's educate yourself. I think the basis of
our podcast is we like education, Edie. The end of
the day, it's laid and educations really truly, madly, deeply
(38:53):
do Okay, But yeah, I hope you enjoy this. I
think I just yeah, celebrate us and you know who
we are. Even though I feel like we do a
lot of the times call ourselves out, people out for
the things we do, we also love it too crazy
to be black, to be who we are. Crazy though,
(39:13):
when we're in high school, we didn't really fox with ourselves.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Like a lot of our culture that we need, we
need therapy over those high school we were actually found
that when I was in high school predominantly white school,
that I that I learned how to operate and I
use those same skills now that I'm in Australia. But
the the like handleff with that was there. Now, I
(39:37):
don't know how to operate in my own space, you know,
And I think that's what I've also started learning, like
how to be around my own people as well. It's
great to have exposure, but not to the point where
you strips you of you.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, and learning to keep quiet. I used to struggle.
I to be like oh hell, and my family said
what now what Sometimes you just need to be like sure,
okay and not do it. I don't know. It's really
like someone's just like, yeah, whatever, you know, but it's true,
it's true, It's very true.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
What have you loved about this special room?
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Be being here when you yeah, like in life in
the flesh, I think just seeing us what we could
be if we weren't long distance. It's always like you know,
a double edged sword, like the basis of this podcast,
which is our friendship, which is being long distance, so
(40:32):
you get a taste of like, oh, what life would
be like if we were closer, But definitely grateful to
have this, to have it in this setup, the team
helping us, you know, who have been so lovely. I think, yeah,
it's just been like such a special moment. As I said,
it's something I'd love to tell my future kids, God
(40:52):
willing that we managed to.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, it's a special moment in time. Yeah, and for
you have love that we've taken time to do this
and elevated as Yeah, because we're in a studio, child,
let me come out.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
It's different from.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Our laptop on zoom, like, it's a different und.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
We go back. Guys, please don't hit us.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, I know, I want to.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Go back to a little bit little people.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
This is a special that's why, because it's special.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, but don't hit on that.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, you have to get on your zoom literally, but like, yeah,
I think it's just that we did acknowledge that, okay,
and we need to do something a bit special for
our listeners, for ourselves, for ourselves, for the culture, as
we're saying. So I really really appreciate you being on
board with us, our listeners and be coming on board
(41:40):
and plane literally to fly into Melbourne. It's been such
a treasure having you here.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Thank you and thanks for having me Melbusie. But you know,
in my head just remake a room bis. Yeah but no,
thank you so much. We hope you've enjoyed this little treat.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Rate us refuge all.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
The things like and subside, follow us all the things
as we have to say. And yeah, thanks am for
having a treatise.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Too many more bom bom bom, boom boom
Speaker 2 (42:13):
By everybody.
We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this
land that we record this podcast on and pay respects
to the elders, past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
We must always remember that under the concrete and asphalt
that this land is, was, and always will be Aboriginal land. Hi,
(00:31):
I'm Ruby, Hi, I'm Amanda.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome to its layered in studio, recorded in Malablle. Can
you believe that? I don't know how many times I
have to say that to believe they're recording in studio.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Believe it, receive it, achieve it. That's a manta right
there for your day. Okay, That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Man,
So we've been having a blast like doing recording the special,
and we wanted to talk about the beauty of our blackness.
I think a lot of the time we talk about
the struggles or the difficult parts about being black and
(01:09):
so on and so forth, but we also wanted to
celebrate ourselves and what it means to be black. But
before we do that, to get into the top, okay, okay,
I wanted to ask you am what you got. The
question is you know you're a black when so finish
the same.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I don't know why I'm cracking up. Okay, share when
you think you can twerk, But what about Minie Cyrus?
She learned to talk, Yeah she learnt, but we think
we can already, but I can't. Yeah, but no, but
you have this notion that you could, don't you or
at least that you can die. Okay that, yes, for sure,
(01:53):
that's true. If someone said, hey, you got no rhthm
oh hell, no, I'm black.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But I also know black people who can't.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah a whole lot, girl. Even some dancers start out
like this a dance l some craakiness.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, that's true for me. I think you know you're
black when you can't disrespect your parents publicly. You know
you'll get a whooping if you try and pretend to
be like too cool for school. You know that those
things are like, there's a me more joke about. I
went to my white friend's house and they were like,
(02:26):
they shouted their mom, no, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I won't do that. First child.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Oh god, it's like never. And then you tried at home.
We've spoken about me slamming the door on my parents.
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
It's still a life.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Loveing mom and dad, please don't pay back me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Is there anything else that you you know you're black
when nothing is yours? Everything has to be shared, like
your bedroom when yous come.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Like, why am I on the floor in my own room?
I think I definitely you know your zimbol. But yeah, definitely,
I think you know you're black when you open the
fridge thinking there's ice cream inkid oh, it's like they
repurpose and stored like leftovers. Brou the heartache, the heart
ache so savage.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I think I still if I still see like a
vanilla or ice cream, but container just assumed there's like
beans or something inside exactly, not ice cream.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, which is why I was saying, like we've been
recycling before. Recycling was a thing.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Very purpose that I think you know you're black when yeah,
you can't speak back to elders, you can't say your
actual thoughts. Yep, we're muscled on another less just keep it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
To yourself in your own head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's so many things. Do you guys feel free to
comment and let us know you know you're black when?
Because I feel like there are so many But I
guess leading into the meat of this topic, what is
blackness to you? Like, what what the hell are we
talking about when you say the beating in our blackness?
(04:07):
What is blackness?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I guess obviously the actually being black, But more importantly,
I think it's just like realizing that due to a
lot of different things, we are in some ways a
marginalized part of society, especially in diaspora, but we're also
a revered part of society. Like a lot of people.
(04:30):
A lot of people use us as reference points. Whether
they want to credit, they really do, but but it's
like a lot of I think for me anyway, that's
how I see it, that we're quite influential without meaning
to be like what's TikTok without all these training dancers
and yeah, I guess particularly in that space African American experience.
(04:51):
But still even right now music afrobeats is having a moment. Yeah,
that's undeniable. So I suppose we've always had. If you
look at music, even history, like rock and roll, even
the blues, all that stuff is rootted in blackness for sure.
So I think we're so we are influential. Yeah, we
leave our mark, but we also allow space for others.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, we're nurturing, welcoming, I feel because we know.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
What it's like to be ostracized, so we're like, because
we know that, we can then hold space for you definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
And I think I was as you were speaking, I
was wondering, can we agree there's one universal term for blackness?
And I think it's we can generalize and say there is,
but really obviously there's different kinds of blackness, like a
black Britge is different to black Colombian, different to you know,
(05:49):
like there's so many. Yeah, but on a whole I
think for me, blackness I refer to as like what
we bring to the table on a global scale.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Also, yeah, they say black people create culture often torot
to as the culture on the INTERWEP.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yes, do you agree on thousand percent? You already said it.
I think you know the corn rows people, you know,
the Kim Kardashians doing cornrows wouldn't have done It came
from blackness. And the crazy thing is when you actually
know the root of cornrows, how slaves used to do that,
to to put pathways, yeah, and seeds in their hair
(06:27):
for when they were being transported so that they could
continue their food, you know, when they were So when
you know the history just like Kim K, what do
you know about slavery? But anyway, have been.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Coming for I also want to do celebrate.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I do also like like it, but you know, I'm objective, okay,
But yeah, I think definitely that's the culture. Music, dance,
you know, art, food, There's so many elements of what
we contribute to culture.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah. But I think also having said that, we have
to give a lot of credit to African Americans, yes,
because I think they've pushed the envelope in what is
deemed to be black, yes, and then worldwide obviously with
the push of America and media, it's like this, you know,
this dance that we do, like they're influenced by Africa,
(07:19):
influenced by other black people over the world, but the
reference point always tends to be African American lens. And
I think if we'll say the culture, yes, they are
actually probably referring more to an African American experience. Definitely,
not to minimize what other but I think there's a
huge A lot of times it's Africans who complain like ah,
(07:40):
but or like, you know, you guys make fun of us.
But I think we also have to realize that they've
also pushed for.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Us the envelope. Yes, especially in a world coming from
a world where you know, America has a strong position
in media, and so they've represented us, I guess blackness
well in those spaces, or tried to represent black pass well.
So what are some of the things that black people
created or that we say black people pioneered, that you
(08:08):
love or would like to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh, where do I start?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I mean music is obviously something just touched on. I
think for me that's probably it, because I think for
we spoke about how music is something we can't live without. Yes,
and I think just from us singing even in choirs,
singing as in churches all the way to like you know,
huge productions and studios such as this one. Yes, it's
(08:34):
like we've had our finger on the pulse when it
comes to what people listen to, you know, Order Trey, Yes,
yeah's you know, I just find that I don't know,
it's it's everyone takes their piece of music and you know,
makes it their own, but it's all rooted somehow somewhere
along the line in blackness.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
For sure. You feel as you mentioned Elvis Presley, you know,
the rock and roll Beach Boys, all these people the
influence of that. I agree with music. I also think
in fashion. Remember we watched Next in Fashion and we
watched this season with actually Zimbabwe and born Fara Samoy
(09:16):
and she was talking about her and her partner in
the competition. We're talking about the streetwear and you know
things like rock Away and Boo Hoo boo and all
that and how that really influenced, you know, culture and
how for example, breakdancing helped like really propel editors and
then so on and so forth. If you look at
(09:39):
Michael Jordan, what he did with Nike, Yeah, so many
elements that have influenced and still to this day influence
how we dress. And Aliyah giving us the nineties low
cut genes and whatnot that still lives on to this day.
So definitely, so many elements. And then now we're seeing
(10:03):
this pride, African pride and how we dress, and that's
I think we need to credit West Africa a lot
Nigerians Ganans for being proudly you know, preserving their culture
and their dress so that you know, we too a
Zimbabwe two we often speak about diluted a lot of
our culture can now still feel good and proud about that.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Because they're definitely proud like traditional where everything. Yes, so
it's very different from us, I think, and we've adopted that.
I remember even actual we all wore like traditional. But
then is that even traditional to zim No, not.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
African and African exactly. But I think there's so much
you know, we have if you've watched Hidden Figures, about
the influence of I forget their names in NASA and
how mathematically they impacted that sport. I mean, if you
look at athletes, it's all based off the power and
(11:03):
strength of I guess the slaves that were traded the strongest,
the fastest, who traded off to the US. If you
look at food, so I.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Just feel about seasoning. You know, there's alway those jokes
on TikTok about not seasoning your food.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Probably no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So there's so
many elements of it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, I mean you probably already mentioned it. But what
do you think it is about black people that makes
us beautiful?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I think you actually touched on it, which is just
our grace and giving enough space for others. Even though
we go through a lot, we're still able to welcome
and I think that's part of what made us get
colonized by the way, yeah, miss that nice guy exactly,
not me coming back to colonization and like turning. But yeah,
(11:54):
that being willing and willing to share ourselves and our
culture and being communal oriented. I think that's just yeah,
one of the beautiful things about us. Of course we
can go on a physical our skin, our beauty, how
youthful we can look even as we grow older. Just
(12:17):
our style and our pride in how we look. I
don't know our languages, our.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I think if you look, especially when you talked about
the nurturing aspect of us, I think I remember like
even during slavery, they had a lot of nurses. I mean,
like what do they call night nurses? Like for the
kids kids were raised by the help, you know, the
help tended to be black. And I think that that
notion still happens even if you look at Zimbabwe with
the same setup, yes, where it's like we could always
(12:45):
rely on our our mother's yes to hold us up,
you know, no matter if they're suffering and going through
your lot. And I think that permeates and how we
are with other races and how we interact with other races.
You know, there's a lot of prank videos. I see
it a lot of times, it's Black people who actually
step in and say something. You know, something means happenings.
I think we've felt so imaginalized that we're always looking
(13:08):
out for And there's not a bashing of other races
in any respect. It's just us taking time.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
To acknowledge, acknowledge and take.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
A pat on the back of our ancestors that have come,
you know, and impact us and we stand on the
shoulders of today.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And also resilience. I think that's one of the beautiful
things about us that we stood the test of time
in spite of all these things and we and we
are not embittered. Well, obviously there's some people who are.
There's a generalization, but I think that is testament to
just who we are is in spite of we still
(13:43):
are giving and loving and not. Yeah, that's resilience and
it's really really amazing to even think about. But how
do we as black people maintain our beauty in spite
of our suffering? So we've talked about resilience and how
do we actually do that in spite of suffer bring,
alienation and oppression? What do you think it is.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I think we do have a spirit of don't care, okay,
the spirit of confidence, yeah, the spirit of being comfortable
with the space we're in. I find like there's nothing
worse than coming from a styling point of view then
walking into a shop and all the clothes are to
not your size because you've got ass and or hips.
So because you operate always as added, always as left out,
(14:27):
you then almost kind of build the stick skin, this
confidence where it's like, well, they really don't have space
for me, so I got to fit in or or
at least, you know, push myself in, otherwise I'm not there.
I'm not considered at all. And I think when you
always operate like that, it builds this muscle where you're like, well,
I can face anything. And I guess that's the resilience
that you're talking of. But I think that does hold
(14:50):
us well, especially when you move away from our homes.
A lot of us are not living where we were
raised or where we were actually from because of economic reasons,
a lot of times economic, so we just always look
back home as a reference. And this podcast is certainly
rooted in that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Definitely, that aspect definitely, and I think it's telling our
stories too. I remember growing up my grandma would tell
us Gulo's stories and you know, yeah, and things like that.
Like that also verbally right, we're very much like we
(15:27):
orators passed it on, you know, things like that. And
I think we also maintained religion as much as we
spoke about religion and some of the limitations of it. Forgiveness,
I think is a big part of blackness, and that's
what enables us to keep going and not be bitter
and like we we really hold on too religion sometimes
(15:49):
our detriment, but I think sometimes it also helps us
to forgive so we can keep on, you know, not
hold on to the baggage so much, so we can
actually keep going because imagine if we're just like all
the hate just festering, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I mean, even think of South Africa where you lived
for a while. Yes, it's like, how do you move
past aparthid? Do you know? And ninety four is not
when you think of historically, ninety four is not that
long ago at all, and those people are still living
today in some sort of society together. Yeah, you know,
so it does take a lot of forgiveness to move
past those atrocities. So yeah, it's a commendable thing, but
(16:30):
it does have its drawbacks, like are we too forgiving?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I think so are we too just like.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Ah well, I mean life, Yeah, it happens. Or make
it work becau Zimbabweans does make it work. Mentality, A
lot of people are like, why didn't you protest when
you're under dictatorship? Yes, you know why. You can't stand
for that. You might have to take arms, you might
have to bleed on the streets to free yourselves under
that oppression, but we chose to just be.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Like, get that work, get out. I think also to
dance and music. As we've said, we sing and dance
when we're happy, we sing and dance when we're sad
at funerals and things like that. I think that's also
what's carried us. We've already spoken about music, but I'm
talking about it in kind of like the traditional way.
(17:16):
I think that being moving your body. You know, they
talk about it if you want to let go of
stress or anxiety, to move your body, not just physically
like running or exercising, but also dancing and singing. And
I think it's a part of who we are and
I think it helps us to release a lot of
the baggage and the way. My mom always used to
say that she thinks Black Americans can sing incredibly well
(17:40):
because they suffered so much and singing was the only
way to release a lot of that pent up frustration
and hurt, and so they really just she specifically it
was referring to gospel music and how you know they
really like a lot of artists come from gospel mute.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
A lot of them, you know, grew up with that culture. Yes, yeah, yeah,
that's where they hold their voice. Even told they could sing, yes,
because at the young ages they were leading choirs, you know. Yeah,
I mean one of the common elements that you think
can be found in most black cultures or households, you know,
growing up black.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I think it's the whole listen to your elders. Respect
the elders at all costs.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It's all costs, even if they're wrong, even if if
even this wasn't the e pedophile, We're not all got
to like work our way around him in the family.
Just stay away from that, stay away from him.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I'm like, maybe he shouldn't be here exposed, YEA like
to leave us be definitely, I think that respect elements.
I think that not being able to be yourself just
like having a piece of you hidden.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. Do you also think us
like trying to overachieve? You know, Nigerians are now known
I think in the mayor can I and I'm Americans.
They're being seen as they're the ones who in the
next generation are going to be a lot of doctors
and stuff are coming from that background.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Do you think it's just because we're just also trying
to make up, may up for lost time, the pressure,
the pressure, Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yes, I think definitely it's about you. You have to
be super educated, you have to be you know, keep learning,
keep achievement, achieve, achieve, achieve a chief. I think that's
probably universal, having to deal with bearing parts of yourself
so as to meet the requirements and demands of your
parents and society and the burden of that. Yes, we're
(19:42):
talking about this too so many times before.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
So yeah, I think, yeah, come back before dark growing
up black as well.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Definitely staying out of don't go to the neighbors. What
don't ask for like when you go visit your friends
or whatever. Don't ask for like water, juice, don't open
the fridge.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Don't eat it's someone out of the house.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, so when you see other kids just going to
another person's.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Fridge, you cannot be doing that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
No, no, no, can not be done. Like who are you?
Do you think that people undermine are beauty as black people.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
That they under mine?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, maybe not giving credit where it's you, Yeah, I
think so.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah. I think it's also lack of documentation. Yes, so
see people call like what are the bow Derek braids?
Which were where Kim then said she got an inspiration
for corn Rows because I think she was bo Derek
was on like a Bond movie in the sixties and
she was a Bond girl, one of the one of
the quintessential Bond girls. Probably have seen her. And then
(20:47):
she had like beads coming out of the water ocean
and I think Helen Barry recreated her scene. And it's
like that where it's like, because we have lack of documentation,
it's easier to it's easier to feel in spir yes,
and they're not credit. Yes, you see it on TikTok
all the time. I think they had what the girl
who everyone knows on TikTok the I forgot name now
(21:08):
and she went on Jimmy Fallon and she did all
the dances and they were like, no, Jimmy Fallon, these
are not she didn't come up. These are trends that
are on TikTok and you need to actually call the
original people that were predominantly African American. And it's like
that where it's like, because we don't document our staff,
it's open season, and then putting responsibility on the other
(21:31):
person to do their research and then you know, credit.
But we also need to be a bit more like protective.
I guess yes about it, which I guess we're learning now.
We're becoming more and more like, okay, what's in this
for me, which hasn't typically been the way we've approached things.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, you're so right, that thing of talent. I was
talking about my grandma telling stories to us, you know, yeah,
but never writing. She never wrote down like this is
the story of Tunagulo or what was the other one?
I forget the story, but like it's all I'd have
to ask my mom and she's, you know, we don't document,
(22:12):
and I remember, you know, we've spoken about family trees
and me saying okay, I think we need to put
together family tree. But otherwise you're just like living like
I don't know what my great grand great great grandparents
parent was, who it was, what they did, So yeah,
not documenting enough for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Do you think we ourselves under mine our own blackness
as black people?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yes, And I think it is by virtue of wanting
to be accepted, because sometimes our blackness is a bit
too strange or so wanting to assimilate, so then we
sometimes shun our blackness trying to be more closer to
(22:57):
what Yes, exactly, and I think too we don't appreciate
the beauty of what we do. We speak a lot
about the creative industry in Zababwe and for example, the
sculptors who sell their works on the side of the
road and how people don't really appreciate it's not really
in a lot of museums or galleries. Yeah yeah, yeah,
(23:20):
But had we been European, you know, we would document,
we would you know, value it be priceless things like that.
But then it's like, oh, the creative industry doesn't it's
not an industry. It doesn't work, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's not over exposure of talent though, like you know,
in your family, if all of you can sing, it's
Whitney really gonna, you know, stand out?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Or is it like you know, when you get like
the Braxton family or Jackson family and all of them sing.
Do you think it comes from that? Where do you
think it comes from us trying to? So?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
I mean you were joking about, Oh I would sing?
If you know Rumby, why don't you sing? But it's
like I feel like everyone can sing, right, So I
think there's an element of that for sure. But I
also think of it being so common again, I guess commonplace.
So then it's like there's no real value, but also
as valuing professions or things that's seen esteemed in some
(24:18):
degree but not necessarily a core part of who we are, Okay,
I see. And so it's a catch twenty two. And
I think sometimes that all white is right and black
is whack. You can hear rhymes element of it all
and self and self hate, like self hate is a
(24:40):
part of it due to many reasons which we've spoken about.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
We tied it all back to colonialism. Don't we somehow
find our way? It's therefore back.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Pay reparations, reparations, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I think because for so long we're told we're not
good enough. Yes, that now we almost believe it into it. Yeah,
and then if you I mean, one of the things
I love about going to South Africa is seeing black
people on billboards. Oh yeah, because it's such a and
we talked about in our privilege episode. We didn't really
talk about that, like seeing ourselves everywhere as a privilege,
(25:16):
yes or not? Right, And when you live in a
country like this where it's like they're proudly Australian, but
that's also proudly one version of Australian. I mean, there's
First Nations people here too. They should be on billboards
just as much, but it's that they catering to a
certain demographic, certain market. And then it becomes okay, where's
your people want to have blonde hair, they want to
(25:37):
have like contacts in because they you know, they want
to align themselves with whiteness, because that's what they see
and that's what's being perceived. As you know, in my
ideal world, if I had to create a world and
want everyone to be seen equally, and thus the world
is mixed, yeah, you know, everyone sees everyone, everyone sees everything. Yeah,
but like in this scenario where it's like you have
(25:57):
to be a certain body shape, certain to look a
certain hair color, eye color. Then it becomes if you're
not that, you're either going to resent it or you're
going to try and become met There's only two options
for you.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right, But when your hips ain't fitting and then jeans, girl,
what you're gonna do? We're leggings. Would you ever consider
or want to be anything but black, even just for
a day.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh, you know, it's quite sad that I've actually stopped
to answer that, right, Yeah, I just meant to be,
oh well, love being black. I think I would want
to be a white guy named Paul.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I don't know, but just around with that energy
so people aren't judging, respect, respect my name as soon
as how white guy and still get like excellent results.
That's what I really think.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
That's what I would love to experience. Just how does
it feel like? Because if I'm too confident, I'm bitchy. Yeah,
if I'm too quiet, I'm meek, I don't know anything,
or I'm dumb. If I'm too like everything, I'm too
And if you move all those twos and you soften
yourself up, who are you? You've lost that quirk that
makes you that person.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
So sometimes I'm like, what does it feel to be average? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I still have the cornfeet.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I still have people be like, who are talented? Come on,
that's I'm just talking about the general Joe who can
still somebody you know, revered or think of himself as
I forgot.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
It, I got it, I'm the ish. Yeah, what do
you think? I definitely just one day. I'm not forever,
because I also like my rhythm and you know, I
like my hair. There's a lot I like about myself.
I like my hair, like you know, But just to
be like, wow, how the other whatever? Fifty percent said.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Tying it back to the Bobby movie when Ken left
Barbie Land and it's like.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Oh, life like this, It's good. Good. I'd love to
experience that for a day. But then I think, like
we offer so much, And I think part of the
journey of life is to embrace all of you and
to love being you, because there's no point wishing to
be what you're not. Yeah, because you're denying a part
(28:22):
of yourself. So I think I've worked too hard to
embrace myself and appreciate myself to just be like, oh, yeah,
I take it.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know, I think I would only like it in
spaces where decisions have to be made. Yes. So like
you know, when you saw Beyonce on the Renaissance movie
spoiler a lot, but she pretty much wants certain lighting
or certain fish eye camera. Yeah, and they're like, you
don't have you don't have it. You know, that's the
widest we've got yet. I used Google and obviously don't
(28:53):
want to Beyonce. So you know, there is access to money,
there's access to It's not like they can turn around
and say, oh, you can't afford it. Yes, we decided
for you know. Then they're like, oh, yeah, it is there.
Like usually their response was oh yeah, So either they're
trying to fuller it and make it seem more too lazy.
They assumed she didn't know what she was talking about.
But whatever the situation was made me think had that
(29:16):
conversation happened with the assistant assistant assistant assistant of the director,
who's a white guy, then it would have been fine.
You know, even if it was just someone who has
no experience, they would have been like, oh, he knows
what you're talking about. But it was just Beyonce and
it's still making a question.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
When I saw that, I was like, it's late for me.
What a good luck?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So I think I would love it when it's like
decision making time, because then the respect would be there,
the being able to just say what I want to
say in mind and not be judged yes.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Or definitely accused or not?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Should I keep quiet or should I
push in this space and then keep quiet on that one?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I can't push on every angle again, bringing back to succession,
just because I've been that dad whatever it was the
name logan, Oh my gosh, Like he feels like he
deserves the world and to have his cake eat it
too and then yours and nobody can tell him nothing.
And that's kind of I'm about bad life just for
(30:16):
a day, because I think you also need to be nice,
just to be nice.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, what is it about blackness that you feel then
intimidates other races? If there is?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I think we have that source cuf flavor, we have
that thing that she can't put your finger on. It's
the X factor that it thing. So it's like, how
come you get to have that and I don't? And
that's why they try to emulate us Maley cyrus.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
That you're talking to someone specific.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
So that's why they try to emulate or to be it,
because it's like but they do it, but they still
can't do it, like how we do? You know what
I mean? And I think that's why people struggle to
embrace and I think, yeah, for fear of being what's
the word not washed out, but like being made redundant?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Okay, okay, yeah, again, you have to keep yourself relevant.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, and the fact that we've been able to stay
relevant and you know, push boundaries in spite of all
the oppression.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
If we were allowed to be our full self Yoko your.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
World watch it. I don't think they would have been
able to handle it.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
But don't you think and this is plain Devil's advocate
that they could, you know, especially like let's say, for example,
white people can think the same thing about us trying
to emulate them, you know, the wearing of context to
have different color eyes. Okay, but a problematic my waves
sammaring a weave today like that type of vibe that okay,
but then if you're so proud, why can't you just
(31:52):
because you guys didn't let us sorry, Yeah, exactly, if
I wear my AFRO at work, it'll be condeemed, it'd
be deem unprofessional. Yes, so because you do that, then
I'm forced.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
To Yeah, you guys said it a lie that we
are made to not fully embrace all of us. Sorry,
I'm not going to give them that.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
I like, no, you tried, but no, I think the
loudness is intimidating. We're typically like we spoke about going
back to our first episode of the special, how you
think you're an intro of it? And I said, if
I didn't know you, I would probably think, oh my gosh,
it's very loud, it's confident. So those things can be
seen I think by other races to be intimidating, you know,
(32:33):
like we don't know. We also don't respect space because
our culture doesn't respect.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Space online, especially bubwins. We take over and I'm like
relaxed at of thing is like people marrying due to
different cultures. They expect you to just adopt the Zimbabwean culture.
I had to do fifty five to remind me, like,
there's a whole other person with a whole other culture.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Can we respect just assume yours is the one to
be revered and followed too, confy.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
So now we're too confy, even in the oppression where
too CONFI imagine if we were up a last time,
you know, it's too much. I feel like calm down.
Like Rama said, what would you say to a young
black person trying to find the beauty in their blackness
in the madness of our world? What would you say?
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I would say, don't compare yourself. There's no other you. Yeah, like,
I think that's quite important to you. Want to fit in,
of course, but don't fit into the point where it's
like you're not you. Yeah, Celebrate those parts of you.
Educate those parts of you. You know, sometimes people just
(33:42):
shun or seem like they're not interest because they don't know.
We're all waiting to be exposed to things. I know.
When I first moved to Australia, Asian culture was a
whole big exposure for me as well, because at home
was just everyone's Asian Chinese. You know, it is Chinese, Like, no,
there's this whole continent that's not just so I think,
(34:04):
like it took a lot of education for me, took
a lot of interest, took a lot of for me
to be like to peel away and understand the culture,
and I think a lot of times people just look
at its surface level. Yes, and I think I'll say
advice to people who feel misunderstood and sometimes maybe stop
it sucks. You have to be always in an education
but when you are a minority, obviously some part of
(34:27):
you might always have to stay in that learning or
educating space, just so that people when they interact with
you can walk away better for it. They understand the
nuances within blackness. Whereas if you just do everything to
fit in and lose yourself, you're not benefiting what got
you there to begin with.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
True, and you also have to be the bigger person,
which is like her saying learning It's like why can't
people learn about me? But it's just unfortunately the way
the world is wired. But also learning, think of learning
for your benefit as a man that has said, I
think also finding your community that helps you believe in
and celebrate who you are, especially when you are a
(35:10):
minority or away from home, or find a community even
who you follow on social media. Find community that feeds
you to feel like, okay, I see myself. That's how
you talk about representations. So kids of today, gen Zas,
you're so lucky to grow up in a world where
you can see people who look like you in so
many spaces. When we grew up, we had magazines and
(35:33):
never it's just like it was whitewashed.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
That's why Naomi Cumbll is like a mother because we're
like even people tell stories about her being a devout
better Saomi untouchable because she was the first supermodel we
saw on ad campaign.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Worldwide exactly, so in dark skin exactly. But now you
can really curate your feed to feed you and encourage you. Yeah,
and you know it helps you also develop a level
of like, Okay, I'm not the only one.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And I think truly your difference is something to celebrate
because in a way you can bring to the table
something people don't have that's special. Yeah, it is, it is, Yeah,
it definitely is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah. What do you want the world to know or
change their predudices about blackness?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I would love the world not to be so afraid
of it. It's not contagious. You're not gonna touch me
and get black. I don't know, there's no other way
to put it. It's it's And one thing I really
want the world to know is we are just human,
like you.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, oh that part.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
We're just we feel the same. We cry like you,
we're scared like you. We we're happy like you. We
literally how you feel.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
We have the same.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
We're not We're not an animal. We're not like monkeys.
We're not. It's just we're just humans, just like you,
with the exact same emotions, feelings, and we're just asking
for a room to be alive and just respect.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah. Yeah, now if I agree with you, co sign.
And I also think I would just add on to
say that we're not here for other people's entertainment. Say,
I hate it when people are like, oh my gosh,
you got some Yeah, go girl, and it's like stop,
like teach me how to tour it. That's African American.
I'm not even African American. I don't speak like that.
(37:34):
And even if I do this, my choice, like it's
just don't walk around assuming you know a lot and
then putting those assumptions onto me. Blackness is very nuanced.
You first nations, black person, me, African, African American, you know, Latina,
all these different we're all the same way. You can
(37:55):
assume someone from Finland and someone from Australia might not
be same for same. It's the same way we operate too.
So I think sometimes it's like you're black and it's
like one one color one, whereas we know in whiteness
or even sometimes even in Asian culture, you give space
for different versions. And I would like to see that more.
(38:17):
I think, not just painted with the one rush rush.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
You can get a black person who loves rock music
and hates R and B. You can get someone. There's
just so many varieties. And you know, as we always say,
Africa is not a country. Yell, it's not the same.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Just because you met doesn't mean I know them, or
you know a Kenyon doesn't mean I know, Like yeah,
definitely that one's educate yourself. I think the basis of
our podcast is we like education, Edie. The end of
the day, it's laid and educations really truly, madly, deeply
(38:53):
do Okay, But yeah, I hope you enjoy this. I
think I just yeah, celebrate us and you know who
we are. Even though I feel like we do a
lot of the times call ourselves out, people out for
the things we do, we also love it too crazy
to be black, to be who we are. Crazy though,
(39:13):
when we're in high school, we didn't really fox with ourselves.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Like a lot of our culture that we need, we
need therapy over those high school we were actually found
that when I was in high school predominantly white school,
that I that I learned how to operate and I
use those same skills now that I'm in Australia. But
the the like handleff with that was there. Now, I
(39:37):
don't know how to operate in my own space, you know,
And I think that's what I've also started learning, like
how to be around my own people as well. It's
great to have exposure, but not to the point where
you strips you of you.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, and learning to keep quiet. I used to struggle.
I to be like oh hell, and my family said
what now what Sometimes you just need to be like sure,
okay and not do it. I don't know. It's really
like someone's just like, yeah, whatever, you know, but it's true,
it's true, It's very true.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
What have you loved about this special room?
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Be being here when you yeah, like in life in
the flesh, I think just seeing us what we could
be if we weren't long distance. It's always like you know,
a double edged sword, like the basis of this podcast,
which is our friendship, which is being long distance, so
(40:32):
you get a taste of like, oh, what life would
be like if we were closer, But definitely grateful to
have this, to have it in this setup, the team
helping us, you know, who have been so lovely. I think, yeah,
it's just been like such a special moment. As I said,
it's something I'd love to tell my future kids, God
(40:52):
willing that we managed to.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, it's a special moment in time. Yeah, and for
you have love that we've taken time to do this
and elevated as Yeah, because we're in a studio, child,
let me come out.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
It's different from.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Our laptop on zoom, like, it's a different und.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
We go back. Guys, please don't hit us.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, I know, I want to.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Go back to a little bit little people.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
This is a special that's why, because it's special.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, but don't hit on that.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, you have to get on your zoom literally, but like, yeah,
I think it's just that we did acknowledge that, okay,
and we need to do something a bit special for
our listeners, for ourselves, for ourselves, for the culture, as
we're saying. So I really really appreciate you being on
board with us, our listeners and be coming on board
(41:40):
and plane literally to fly into Melbourne. It's been such
a treasure having you here.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Thank you and thanks for having me Melbusie. But you know,
in my head just remake a room bis. Yeah but no,
thank you so much. We hope you've enjoyed this little treat.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Rate us refuge all.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
The things like and subside, follow us all the things
as we have to say. And yeah, thanks am for
having a treatise.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Too many more bom bom bom, boom boom
Speaker 2 (42:13):
By everybody.
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