November 11, 2024 • 6 mins
Lisa Messenger and Sarah Megginson joins Jonesy & Amanda to chat about Sarah's selfless act to give her friend Lisa a baby via surrogacy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jersey and Amanda jam Nation. After fourteen years of friendship,
Lisa and Sarah were as close as friends as they
could be. But after eight long years of trying for
a baby, eighteen rounds of IVFG, I know what those
years are like. Lisa and her husband had just about
given up the idea of expanding their family until Sarah
(00:21):
came to her with a life changing offer, the baby
that they longed for. Sarah Megason and Lisa Messenger have
written a book about this called The Power of Two,
and they join us now, Sarah and Lisa.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, Hello ladies, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So surrogacy isn't legal in Australia, which I think was
just astounds me. So the only way you can have
a baby like this is if someone like you steps up.
Am I right about that? Sarah?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, that's right. It's called altruistic surrogacy. So commercial surrogacy
where any money changes hand, that's illegal in Australia. But
altruistic surrogacy, where you do it out of you know,
the goodness of your heart, that is allowed. But only
about one hundred and twenty of those scenarios happen in
Australia each year because it's pretty tricky to find someone
who can do that.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
For you, and you guys are pretty close. But it
must have been hard Sarah when you were carrying that
little baby, because you would have maternal instincts and also
for Lisa, you would have been thinking, oh, what if
Sarah suddenly decides I want to have this, I want
to keep the baby.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
I mean, I think there's so much trust, Hayley, There's
very much trust, and I think lots of communications. Sarah
and I have known each other since twenty eleven, so
we'd had a pretty strong friendship by the time it
came about to us being pregnant.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So, Sarah, you had children of your own. How did
you explain to them what was going on.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We were really lucky because they were old enough to understand.
So they were all in primary school and high school,
so I was able to explain to them really clearly
that we were I was going to get pregnant, but
they weren't getting a sibling, and it was really great.
They were really part of the experience, and they fully
understood that our friends really wanted a baby and that
we were going to be part of the link in
the chain that helped them start their family. So they
(02:06):
were really supportive, really involved. Even my twelve year old
daughter was there for the implantation day. That they were
involved every step of the way.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And Lisa, how did you feel did you have natural
feelings of kind of jealousy that Sarah was carrying the baby?
How did and I assume this is an embryo, it
was it your egg and your husband's sperm together.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well, all of that would talk about in our book,
But I wasn't jealous at all, Amanda, because I've been
trying for a baby for eight years, so I'd been
through sixteen rounds of IVF myself before Sarah tried for me.
So I was just thrilled, and honestly, it was the
most exciting way to have a baby. It was like
having your best girlfriend by your side. And every single
(02:46):
day we were either face timing or we were together
in person at every single scan, or we were calling
each other or dming each other. So no, I actually
it was extraordinary and I could not fault the entire experience.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And how did the men in your life go with this?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Well, there's been extraordinarily supportive, But sometimes my hubby Stephen
feels on the outer He's like, I feel like, if
you're a Sarah's baby, we just had such fun together.
But they've been really, really special, And to be honest,
it Steven's fault a little bit. He hates social media,
whereas Sarah and I have kind of been sharing our
(03:23):
story from the rooftops to help other people.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
And as you say, so few people go about it
this way because how hard it must be. How do
you feel about this being offered a financial service? Why
aren't we like the states where this can be regulated.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
There. I feel like in each other's head that we're
probably gonna say very similar think. Look, I think it's
great in a way that you know it's so regulated,
but also there's huge downfalls around that. It's very prohibitive.
There's so much paper work. In fact, today here there
is almost sixteen months old and we still don't have
(04:04):
a legal birth certificate or a Medicare card for him ourselves.
So there's so much red tape, so much bureaucracy, so
many hoops to jump through. So while some of it
should be regulated, so you know, it's not just open flather,
I think there's a lot of things that could jump
into twenty twenty four because you'd think.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That the government would be on top of this. Your
story's been around everywhere, so who's dragging the chain on this.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Life of people? Did not a lot of demand. Therefore
it within the government. You know the fact that there's
only one hundred and twenty of these a year, it
just becomes such a low priority for them. They're you know,
prioritizing based on need, and they just don't see the
need there. And we see this a lot with a
lot of areas of fertility and medicare rebates. You know,
even that was something because I was a surrogate, there
(04:50):
were different rebates that Lisa and Stephen could claim. They
couldn't get as much back from the government because it
wasn't their own fertility process. And I think things like
that we need a bit of attention because it just
makes it so prohibitive.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I've got a friend who has a child through surrogacy
and they went to the States where it was so regulated,
so straightforward, so taken care of. I I just saw
a very different side of it and this wonderful family
that's been created because of it. I don't know why
we can't just make this easier for people.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah, I agree, it's all right. I mean in the
US it's very expensive because you know, it's a pay
to play situation. And as I said, it's altruistic in Australia,
and we don't take it lightly that we've been in
a fortunate financial position that we could go through so
many rounds of IBF and then do this, and we
am acutely aware that there are a lot of people
(05:44):
out there who can't even afford one round of IBF.
So I think also some of the barriers to entry
and some government support and things around this because it
affects so many people, you know, infertility or struggling. So
I would like to see some regulatory changes and support
their and the government for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, it's a case of working and little Hugo look
at him go, although when he turns into a teenager,
will you be handing him back to Sarah.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Oh, my gosh, I mean, hello, Toddlerville. He's the cute
of things that work before breakfast in the twenty seven
different ways he's tried to name himself or the cat
or the dog or some wall or something at the
help of it. He's adorable, but my gosh, he's wild.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's a great story. Ladies. The Power of Two is
at all bookstores now. Sarah Lisa, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Thank you, Amanda
Jersey and Amanda jam Nation. After fourteen years of friendship,
Lisa and Sarah were as close as friends as they
could be. But after eight long years of trying for
a baby, eighteen rounds of IVFG, I know what those
years are like. Lisa and her husband had just about
given up the idea of expanding their family until Sarah
(00:21):
came to her with a life changing offer, the baby
that they longed for. Sarah Megason and Lisa Messenger have
written a book about this called The Power of Two,
and they join us now, Sarah and Lisa.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, Hello ladies, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So surrogacy isn't legal in Australia, which I think was
just astounds me. So the only way you can have
a baby like this is if someone like you steps up.
Am I right about that? Sarah?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, that's right. It's called altruistic surrogacy. So commercial surrogacy
where any money changes hand, that's illegal in Australia. But
altruistic surrogacy, where you do it out of you know,
the goodness of your heart, that is allowed. But only
about one hundred and twenty of those scenarios happen in
Australia each year because it's pretty tricky to find someone
who can do that.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
For you, and you guys are pretty close. But it
must have been hard Sarah when you were carrying that
little baby, because you would have maternal instincts and also
for Lisa, you would have been thinking, oh, what if
Sarah suddenly decides I want to have this, I want
to keep the baby.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
I mean, I think there's so much trust, Hayley, There's
very much trust, and I think lots of communications. Sarah
and I have known each other since twenty eleven, so
we'd had a pretty strong friendship by the time it
came about to us being pregnant.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So, Sarah, you had children of your own. How did
you explain to them what was going on.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
We were really lucky because they were old enough to understand.
So they were all in primary school and high school,
so I was able to explain to them really clearly
that we were I was going to get pregnant, but
they weren't getting a sibling, and it was really great.
They were really part of the experience, and they fully
understood that our friends really wanted a baby and that
we were going to be part of the link in
the chain that helped them start their family. So they
(02:06):
were really supportive, really involved. Even my twelve year old
daughter was there for the implantation day. That they were
involved every step of the way.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And Lisa, how did you feel did you have natural
feelings of kind of jealousy that Sarah was carrying the baby?
How did and I assume this is an embryo, it
was it your egg and your husband's sperm together.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well, all of that would talk about in our book,
But I wasn't jealous at all, Amanda, because I've been
trying for a baby for eight years, so I'd been
through sixteen rounds of IVF myself before Sarah tried for me.
So I was just thrilled, and honestly, it was the
most exciting way to have a baby. It was like
having your best girlfriend by your side. And every single
(02:46):
day we were either face timing or we were together
in person at every single scan, or we were calling
each other or dming each other. So no, I actually
it was extraordinary and I could not fault the entire experience.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And how did the men in your life go with this?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Well, there's been extraordinarily supportive, But sometimes my hubby Stephen
feels on the outer He's like, I feel like, if
you're a Sarah's baby, we just had such fun together.
But they've been really, really special, And to be honest,
it Steven's fault a little bit. He hates social media,
whereas Sarah and I have kind of been sharing our
(03:23):
story from the rooftops to help other people.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
And as you say, so few people go about it
this way because how hard it must be. How do
you feel about this being offered a financial service? Why
aren't we like the states where this can be regulated.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
There. I feel like in each other's head that we're
probably gonna say very similar think. Look, I think it's
great in a way that you know it's so regulated,
but also there's huge downfalls around that. It's very prohibitive.
There's so much paper work. In fact, today here there
is almost sixteen months old and we still don't have
(04:04):
a legal birth certificate or a Medicare card for him ourselves.
So there's so much red tape, so much bureaucracy, so
many hoops to jump through. So while some of it
should be regulated, so you know, it's not just open flather,
I think there's a lot of things that could jump
into twenty twenty four because you'd think.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That the government would be on top of this. Your
story's been around everywhere, so who's dragging the chain on this.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Life of people? Did not a lot of demand. Therefore
it within the government. You know the fact that there's
only one hundred and twenty of these a year, it
just becomes such a low priority for them. They're you know,
prioritizing based on need, and they just don't see the
need there. And we see this a lot with a
lot of areas of fertility and medicare rebates. You know,
even that was something because I was a surrogate, there
(04:50):
were different rebates that Lisa and Stephen could claim. They
couldn't get as much back from the government because it
wasn't their own fertility process. And I think things like
that we need a bit of attention because it just
makes it so prohibitive.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I've got a friend who has a child through surrogacy
and they went to the States where it was so regulated,
so straightforward, so taken care of. I I just saw
a very different side of it and this wonderful family
that's been created because of it. I don't know why
we can't just make this easier for people.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah, I agree, it's all right. I mean in the
US it's very expensive because you know, it's a pay
to play situation. And as I said, it's altruistic in Australia,
and we don't take it lightly that we've been in
a fortunate financial position that we could go through so
many rounds of IBF and then do this, and we
am acutely aware that there are a lot of people
(05:44):
out there who can't even afford one round of IBF.
So I think also some of the barriers to entry
and some government support and things around this because it
affects so many people, you know, infertility or struggling. So
I would like to see some regulatory changes and support
their and the government for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, it's a case of working and little Hugo look
at him go, although when he turns into a teenager,
will you be handing him back to Sarah.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Oh, my gosh, I mean, hello, Toddlerville. He's the cute
of things that work before breakfast in the twenty seven
different ways he's tried to name himself or the cat
or the dog or some wall or something at the
help of it. He's adorable, but my gosh, he's wild.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's a great story. Ladies. The Power of Two is
at all bookstores now. Sarah Lisa, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Thank you, Amanda
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