🧠 EXCLUSIVE CHAT: Steve Van Aperen (Human Lie Detector)

Human lie detector Steve Van Aperen joins Jonesy & Amanda for a fascinating chat!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
And Amanda gam Nation.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Our next guest is a human lie detector. His name
is Steve van Aprin. He's a world renowned specialist in
human behavior, in deception, detection, and analyzing a person's body language,
which allows him to read people like a book that
he's often used to help in homicide cases. Let's assume
Jonesy hasn't murdered anybody, but Steve, hello and welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Thank you Amanda. This is exactly why I have my friends.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, how socially does it go? Are you treated by
your friends like psychic?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Say?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
You think you read too much into me, therefore we
can't socialize.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Well, my golfing partners no better to lie to me
about the scores, that's for sure. But look, when I
was a detective for fourteen years, and back in those days,
what really amazed me is that some of the detectives
who were not very good at reading body language and
detecting deception. So I was always interested in psychological profiling.
So I went over to the FBI. But the more

(00:56):
time I spent with their behavioral analysis unit, the more
interested I become cognitive and behavioral anything. I wanted to
know why some people made really good liars and others
were absolutely terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
And what is the difference? Just some people are better
at it?

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well, yeah, Look, the more complex the lie, it takes
a lot of cognitive processing. So if you're fabricating, creating
a false memory, memory, or embellishing, for every one lie
you tell, you have to invent two or three to
protect yourself from the first one. And I don't care
how well prepared you are, you can't possibly pre anticipate
every likely question that I could ask you, what do
you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
It was an example of that.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, let's say I'm interviewing you for like a homicide
and the pathologists established a time of death at seven
pm last night, and you were seen in the locality.
I'd ask you what you did from saying four to
ten and you might say went out. And these were
the questions questions of the tools of my trade. But
more importantly, it's not necessarily the questions, it's how you

(01:51):
react to the questions. So typically give you a real
quick example I was doing. I was training profilos in
Dubai for Emirates, and these guys are really switched on
and these weapons they do. It's amazing what you can
get using weapons. But anyway, one of the they wanted
me to put some questions together to work out withether
not people may have been potential terrorists. So one of

(02:13):
the questions I put together for them is have you
do you have any terrorist associations? And they looked at
me and they said, why on earth would a terrorist
admit to that. I said, it's got nothing to do
with the question, but everything to do with their reaction.
Truthful people take ownership, where deceptive people create distance, disassociation
and separation and language. So many cases, I've worked on

(02:34):
eighty nine homicide cases, and sometimes what I look for
is whether or not the person is taking ownership or
creating distance. You know, Bill Clinton, I did not have
sexual relations with that woman. Often some police departments will
get me to look at a plea, you know, media
plea for the return of their loved one. And there's
a case here, kayjh Abrams, I don't know if you remember

(02:56):
that one. And the mother went there with her, in
fact her boyfriend, And as soon as I saw it,
I knew that they were involved because he turned around
and said she was such a wonderful child when she
when he said, that's past tense. Trust me, if you've
ever spoken to a parent who's had their child abducted,
they will never ever talk in past tense. Why because

(03:17):
their expectation is their child will be returned to life
safe and well. So it's almost like had given up.
So getting back to the homicides, I'd ask you, you know,
where did you go? I went out? Where did you
go restaurant? What was the name of the restaurant? Have
you been there before? What time did you leave, What
was your route you took to get there, what time
did you arrive? What was on the menu? Have you
been there before? That's a very interesting question because if

(03:39):
they have and they were involved in the murder of
another place, they can draw from memory that they've been
there before. So then we have to take them beyond that.
So you may be able to think of a lie,
but do you sound believable and credible? And sooner or
later your story will fall apart at some stone.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I'm exau just listening to that. I confessed to something
I haven't done.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
These are the questions that Amanda asked about me on
a month What did you do? What did you get
up to? It said, what are your cop? How many
questions are you going to ask?

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, we have some questions here, Brendan, that our audience
has asked that I ask you, and Steve will observe
you and let us know whether he thinks you're telling
the truth or not.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Okay, well I'll put my truthful face on. Will take
a break or come? You should be very worried. Should so?
I don't know what the questions are.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Do you know what mushroom looks like?