October 20, 2025 • 6 mins
The incredible Dr Richard 'Harry' Harris joins Jonesy & Amanda to talk about his extraordinary accomplishments ahead of the release of his new documentary, Deeper.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
My Heart podcasts. Here more Gold one on one point
seven podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Playlists and listen live on the free iHeart app.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Jersey and Amanda jam Nation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You won't have heard about our guest today, Doctor Harry
or Richard Harris, known as Harry. He was an integral
part of the incredible team behind that cave rescue in
Thailand back in twenty eighteen where the whole soccer team
was trapped in a cave underground. The rescue earned Harry
the title of Australian of the Year in twenty nineteen.
He's one of the world's leading cave divers, something that
(00:42):
just sends shivers through my spine. He's got a new
documentary out. It sounds incredible. It's one that explores these
underwater wonders. Harry, Hi here is thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Everyone weighed in on this at the time.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Everyone thought that from Elon Musk say he's going to
give you a submarine and then going crazy on Twitter
to people saying, oh you know, you shouldn't sedate these boys.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It must have been such a hard time.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Well, I was the most vocal opponent to the sedation idea.
I can assure you so yeah. When I got there.
It was it was crazy that are thousands of people
around and inside that cave, and it was like walking
into complete chaos. But yeah, we got through it.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And when you say you were against the sedation, I
thought that as well. So why would they do that?
And then it was explained that because it's such a
long dive, the person would panic.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Although coming out.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, that was a very much a last resort, and
you know, they were racking their brains trying to find
a solution, and I spent twenty four hours on the
ground making sure there was no other possible idea that
could work, and in the end I resigned myself to
the fact that that's the only way these boys are
coming out, you know, in the next couple of days.
Otherwise they would have perished in the cave over several
weeks because the waters were coming back and Monsoon's coming back.
(01:53):
So it was a desperate act that fortunately somehow paid off.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And is that because the boys would have consumed two
mouths too much oxygen if they panicked.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Just you know, if I put someone like yourself, Amanda
underwater zero visibility three hours, you go through these very tight,
constricted tunnels. We know from experience that people panic very
quickly and someone who panics immediately dies, and more importantly
might also kill the person that's trying to rescue them.
So we couldn't risk the lives of these British divers
(02:22):
who are going to be taking them out, so the
kids had to be compliant or asleep.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Basically, Wow, that's the whole idea about cave diving. Diving
through narrow chambers For people who are claustrophobic, this is horrific.
But going through spaces that you don't know, if you
fit through, you can get back out. All it takes
is to kick up a tiny bit of silt you
don't know up from down. It sounds horrific.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
We are very well trained and we spend a lot
of time practicing and building up very slowly, so you
don't go into a cave like the Thai cave on
your first day out. You know, that's three decades worth
of experience and being comfortable in that environment to be
able to manage that, aside from the sedation protocol that
we use, so you know, there's no way I could
have survived that dive. When I first started cave diving
(03:06):
in the eighties. But after all the time, you know,
that side of things wasn't a big deal for us.
That's that's our comfortable place with.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
We do it on the weekends for fun, and so
you go into holes for fun that you don't know
whether you can actually fit in, whether your tank will
get jammed, you don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Well, you do learn to judge that quite early on
when you give yourself a fright early on you go right,
well that was a bit small, so I'm not going
to do that again. But you know, if you can
get through it, then you can get back out through it.
And that sometimes means being able to control your fear
and realizing there is a solution to this problem and
you just have to keep calm and solve it. It's
(03:42):
like a game of Tetris underwater with the clock running.
I guess, I know that sounds dramatic, but that's the
best way to picture it. But when you do it
all the time, then that just become you normalize it.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I guess is.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It like being reborn?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Well, I can't remember the first time, but it's just.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Like some sort of anthropological thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
You know, I just enjoy the problem solving under a
little bit of pressure, and I guess that's the life
if I've lived, you know, working in critical care medicine.
I think it's a lot of overlap with that that
most of the time it's very routine, it's very safe
for everyone involved. But occasionally you have to fall back
on your train and keep calm and solve problems. And
I've enjoyed doing that in my career.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
If you ever do wordle, you can do wordle.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
I have a daily competition against my wife and I'm
the biggest loser.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
What are some of the hairy situations apart from Thailand
that you have found yourself in while doing this?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Well, I have got stuck a couple of times, and.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's jammed in a case.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Yeah, you get your misjudge, as you implied, and you
try and go through a restriction we call them that's
a bit too tight and maybe you can wriggle through
and then you can't reverse out, or you have to
find a space to turn around and come back out,
and you know your heart rate, Sure it comes up
in that moment, but again you just learn how to
(05:04):
keep calm and carry on.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Tell us about the DOCCO is going to show, Well,
my gorge Rose listening to you. Then, are there hairy
moments in the doco?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Look, there's a few.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And you know, this is based on an expedition in
New Zealand in twenty twenty three where we're exploring what
might be the deepest diverable cave in the world. And
we're so my friend Craig Challon, who was also Australian
of the Year with me. We have a bit of
a niche interest in deep diving because we're interested in
the physiology and the physics and the logistics of overcoming
(05:37):
what is another type of danger in diving.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Not just deep but deep and then in a cave.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Yeah, although this cave is quite roomy, so there's plenty
that there's never a concern you're going to get stuck
in this one. It's a nice big tunnel.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
It's reasonable, but it goes very.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Very deep, like it's well over two hundred meters deep,
and so we're working out how to use different gases,
different technologies to push down deeper and deeper. And that's
kind of what the film's about. But it's also about
this group of friends that I've been exploring caves with
for avery long time and how this camaraderie of putting
yourself in these sort of situations can get you through it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's what'd you see down there?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
The trite answer is more wet rocks. But for us,
the fact that you're looking at tunnels that no one's
ever laid eyes on before is really exciting you. You're
genuinely exploring in these places, and it's very hard to
do that on the planet Earth these days. All the
mountains have been climbed.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And hey you look at that. Look at you got
a job of Mount Everest. It's at a billion people.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And there's a South I bet you want to see
a south supporter down the cave.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Well, I don't know what that is, but is that?
Is that the equivalent to a port supporter in Adelaide,
which I am.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
There you go, but you've got good teeth. There you go?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Well, actually the front ones haven't been knocked out.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Then you qualify deeper?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Is in Cinema's October thirty terrifying Richard Harry Harris.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I'd rather watch you do it than me do it.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Thanks guys, it's been fun.
My Heart podcasts. Here more Gold one on one point
seven podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Playlists and listen live on the free iHeart app.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Jersey and Amanda jam Nation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You won't have heard about our guest today, Doctor Harry
or Richard Harris, known as Harry. He was an integral
part of the incredible team behind that cave rescue in
Thailand back in twenty eighteen where the whole soccer team
was trapped in a cave underground. The rescue earned Harry
the title of Australian of the Year in twenty nineteen.
He's one of the world's leading cave divers, something that
(00:42):
just sends shivers through my spine. He's got a new
documentary out. It sounds incredible. It's one that explores these
underwater wonders. Harry, Hi here is thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Everyone weighed in on this at the time.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Everyone thought that from Elon Musk say he's going to
give you a submarine and then going crazy on Twitter
to people saying, oh you know, you shouldn't sedate these boys.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It must have been such a hard time.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Well, I was the most vocal opponent to the sedation idea.
I can assure you so yeah. When I got there.
It was it was crazy that are thousands of people
around and inside that cave, and it was like walking
into complete chaos. But yeah, we got through it.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And when you say you were against the sedation, I
thought that as well. So why would they do that?
And then it was explained that because it's such a
long dive, the person would panic.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Although coming out.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, that was a very much a last resort, and
you know, they were racking their brains trying to find
a solution, and I spent twenty four hours on the
ground making sure there was no other possible idea that
could work, and in the end I resigned myself to
the fact that that's the only way these boys are
coming out, you know, in the next couple of days.
Otherwise they would have perished in the cave over several
weeks because the waters were coming back and Monsoon's coming back.
(01:53):
So it was a desperate act that fortunately somehow paid off.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
And is that because the boys would have consumed two
mouths too much oxygen if they panicked.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Just you know, if I put someone like yourself, Amanda
underwater zero visibility three hours, you go through these very tight,
constricted tunnels. We know from experience that people panic very
quickly and someone who panics immediately dies, and more importantly
might also kill the person that's trying to rescue them.
So we couldn't risk the lives of these British divers
(02:22):
who are going to be taking them out, so the
kids had to be compliant or asleep.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Basically, Wow, that's the whole idea about cave diving. Diving
through narrow chambers For people who are claustrophobic, this is horrific.
But going through spaces that you don't know, if you
fit through, you can get back out. All it takes
is to kick up a tiny bit of silt you
don't know up from down. It sounds horrific.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
We are very well trained and we spend a lot
of time practicing and building up very slowly, so you
don't go into a cave like the Thai cave on
your first day out. You know, that's three decades worth
of experience and being comfortable in that environment to be
able to manage that, aside from the sedation protocol that
we use, so you know, there's no way I could
have survived that dive. When I first started cave diving
(03:06):
in the eighties. But after all the time, you know,
that side of things wasn't a big deal for us.
That's that's our comfortable place with.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
We do it on the weekends for fun, and so
you go into holes for fun that you don't know
whether you can actually fit in, whether your tank will
get jammed, you don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Well, you do learn to judge that quite early on
when you give yourself a fright early on you go right,
well that was a bit small, so I'm not going
to do that again. But you know, if you can
get through it, then you can get back out through it.
And that sometimes means being able to control your fear
and realizing there is a solution to this problem and
you just have to keep calm and solve it. It's
(03:42):
like a game of Tetris underwater with the clock running.
I guess, I know that sounds dramatic, but that's the
best way to picture it. But when you do it
all the time, then that just become you normalize it.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I guess is.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It like being reborn?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Well, I can't remember the first time, but it's just.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Like some sort of anthropological thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
You know, I just enjoy the problem solving under a
little bit of pressure, and I guess that's the life
if I've lived, you know, working in critical care medicine.
I think it's a lot of overlap with that that
most of the time it's very routine, it's very safe
for everyone involved. But occasionally you have to fall back
on your train and keep calm and solve problems. And
I've enjoyed doing that in my career.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
If you ever do wordle, you can do wordle.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
I have a daily competition against my wife and I'm
the biggest loser.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
What are some of the hairy situations apart from Thailand
that you have found yourself in while doing this?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Well, I have got stuck a couple of times, and.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's jammed in a case.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Yeah, you get your misjudge, as you implied, and you
try and go through a restriction we call them that's
a bit too tight and maybe you can wriggle through
and then you can't reverse out, or you have to
find a space to turn around and come back out,
and you know your heart rate, Sure it comes up
in that moment, but again you just learn how to
(05:04):
keep calm and carry on.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Tell us about the DOCCO is going to show, Well,
my gorge Rose listening to you. Then, are there hairy
moments in the doco?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Look, there's a few.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And you know, this is based on an expedition in
New Zealand in twenty twenty three where we're exploring what
might be the deepest diverable cave in the world. And
we're so my friend Craig Challon, who was also Australian
of the Year with me. We have a bit of
a niche interest in deep diving because we're interested in
the physiology and the physics and the logistics of overcoming
(05:37):
what is another type of danger in diving.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Not just deep but deep and then in a cave.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Yeah, although this cave is quite roomy, so there's plenty
that there's never a concern you're going to get stuck
in this one. It's a nice big tunnel.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
It's reasonable, but it goes very.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Very deep, like it's well over two hundred meters deep,
and so we're working out how to use different gases,
different technologies to push down deeper and deeper. And that's
kind of what the film's about. But it's also about
this group of friends that I've been exploring caves with
for avery long time and how this camaraderie of putting
yourself in these sort of situations can get you through it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's what'd you see down there?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
The trite answer is more wet rocks. But for us,
the fact that you're looking at tunnels that no one's
ever laid eyes on before is really exciting you. You're
genuinely exploring in these places, and it's very hard to
do that on the planet Earth these days. All the
mountains have been climbed.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And hey you look at that. Look at you got
a job of Mount Everest. It's at a billion people.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And there's a South I bet you want to see
a south supporter down the cave.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Well, I don't know what that is, but is that?
Is that the equivalent to a port supporter in Adelaide,
which I am.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
There you go, but you've got good teeth. There you go?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Well, actually the front ones haven't been knocked out.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Then you qualify deeper?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Is in Cinema's October thirty terrifying Richard Harry Harris.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I'd rather watch you do it than me do it.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Thanks guys, it's been fun.
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