❤️ EXCLUSIVE CHAT: Gary Sokolov (The Tattooist's Son: Journey to Auschwitz)

The incredible Gary Sokolov joins Jonesy & Amanda to talk about the intergenerational trauma of the Holocaust.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jersey and Amanda jam Nation. You may have read the
book or heard of the series, The Tattooists of Auschwitz.
It's the heartbreaking story of Lali and Gita Sokolov, who
met and fell in love with the most horrendous conditions
while prisoner's in Alschwitz. Over eight decades later, Gary, their
only son, has taken the harrowing journey back to the
place where his parents love story began, and he joins us.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Now, Hello, Gary, good morning, How you were good.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Thanks thanks for joining us.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, thank you so much. Neither of your parents ever
went back, did they?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
No?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Unfortunately not so. The story behind my journey was about
five weeks before my father passed away in two thousand
and six. I came home and Heather Morris was over
and Dad there was a.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Woman who wrote the story with him, The Tattooists correct.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
To Auschwitz, And he said to me, they did like
to go back to Auschwitz. And I said, Dad, really surprised,
you've never mentioned wanting to go anywhere in Europe. And
he said to me that he needs to apologize to
the people whose lives he couldn't save. And my biggest

(01:13):
regret was not literally jumping on a plane the next
day and taking him to OUs, which because five weeks
later he passed away. And that's been playing very heavily
on my mind that I needed to finally make that trip.
I've tried four times, I couldn't actually cross into the
police border, and it was time for me to make

(01:34):
that apology on behalf of my dad.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, because I find I wouldn't go to Ouse, which
I just can't. I went to dak Out and that
was as what place as I got. But it just
it's so sobering, and it's just to see that.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
History normality of Burkenal just blew my mind. I could
not believe just how it was.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
And also your parents, how you're even here is extraordinary.
When you read that book. Your mum and dad were
constantly cheating death every not every day, every minute of
every day.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah. Well, look, one of the things my dad used
to say when you wake up in the morning was
if you wake up in the morning, it's a good day.
And let me tell you, they kept cheating death even
while they were in Slovakia for the four years before
they came out to Australia. It didn't end for them.
It's just unbelievable how they managed to come in here

(02:32):
and have a positive mentality.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Gary, I've spoken to a child of a Holocaust survivor
before who said that many children of Holocaust survivors are
hypochondrias because their parents know that terrible th things can happen.
No one says, give it a rub, you'll get better.
You know terrible things can happen. What are the long
term effects of this intergenerational trauma. How was your upbringing
in light of your parents both being survivors.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Look, I think I was one of the lucky ones.
My parents had an attitude where they would always look forward.
I wasn't brought up as a bubble child. It was
very important for my parents for me to try everything.
If I fell off a horse, we'll get back on,
you know. When I broke my leg skiing, as soon

(03:18):
as I was out of plaster and it was the
next winter, they took me skiing. So for my parents
it was you need to try and experience appsolutely everything
and if you hurt yourself, or you hurt yourself and
you move.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
On, what new understandings do you have of what they
went through? Because they didn't speak about it much when
you were growing up having been there, Now, what context
do you see for that?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
So I have a better appreciation of why they didn't
talk to me about it, because I think the fact
that the one thing they protected me from was their
experience there, even though I had to watch the World
at War miniseries by myself when I was about twelve
or thirteen.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Oh really, so the World at War was a very
famous series at the time. Did they not watch that
with you?

Speaker 2 (04:10):
No? They would literally sit in the kitchen, which was
next door to the TV room, and because I'm an
only child, that I'd be sitting there watching it by myself,
and then when I would come out and try and
talk to them about it, they would offer me something
to eat food was very important to my mum and
send me to bed. So I kind of gave up
asking them questions and they.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Didn't explain anything about that past. So when that World
of War series is on, they wouldn't say anything about it.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
They wouldn't say those images that I saw on that series.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh, me too, looked the bulldozers shuffling the bodies. Only
I'm sixty three now, so we're talking fifty odd years ago.
When I watched it, and it still plays very heavily
on my mind. Whenever I watch a documentary that shows
life footage of a concentration camp, actually still sit there

(05:00):
looking to see if there's any footage of my mum
and dad.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Well, Garret, it's great to talk to the Tattoo Sun
Journey to Us, which is streaming now on stan Gary Sokolov,
thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
No, thank you so much for having me and you
guys have a wonderful day.