September 3, 2025 • 6 mins
Former National Socialist Movement Jeff Schoep joins Jonesy & Amanda to chat about how he overcame his neo-Nazi beliefs.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
My Heart podcasts here, more Gold one on one point
seven podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Playlists and listen live on the free iHeart app.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Jersey and Amanda jam Nation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Most of Australia was shocked to see neo Nazis in
the spotlight at last weekend's immigration rallies, an appalling speech
by Thomas Seule and an attack on a First Nation's camp.
The vision of that was horrific. Well, this has since
seen him arrested. Someone who knows about these groups is
Jeff's Scoop. He's the former leader of America's biggest neo
Nazi group. He now condemns the hateful views that he
(00:44):
once held, and he's hoping to combat that movement. Jeff
Scoop joins us Now, Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Jeff, thanks for having me on the program.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
That's okay. What are the chances you're in town and
this happened. When you saw that going on, what did
you think?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Yeah, it was quite ironic. I went down to the
protest in Melbourne to check it out and see what
was going on down there, so I was able to
witness at firsthand as.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Someone who, as we say it, has a big experience
of being a neo Nazi what is it that draws
a young man into that world?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
What's that path?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
It's gonna be a lot of different things.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It can be a sense of belonging, it can be
a sense of it could be the ideology. A lot
of young white men are attracted to these kind of
movements because they project strength.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
And things of that nature.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
But they have to you have to look at it
further than that and say, you know what, like the
camp attack, the indigenous camp attack, You've got a bunch
of grown men that are attacking women out there.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
That's not anything honorable or noble or anything of that nature.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
So if you're behaving in that manner, you should be
thinking about is that honorable behavior? Isn't noble behavior? Is
that something that you know? Is that the way you
treat your mother or your sister? You know, it's it's
just it's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You don't seem to say a lot of old Nazis
Is it a young man's game?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, and again I didn't quite hear you.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh sorry, you don't say a lot of old Nazis
these rallies? Is it a young man's game?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well, I mean that really depends.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I mean, you see people of all different ages at
these things, but it is it is highly attractive to
some of these young people that are that are looking
for answers. They're they're looking to get active in the
political scene and things like that, and I think it's
the responsibility. I know, it's the responsibility of the political class.
If you're a mainstream political organization, you don't platform neo Nazis.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
You can say, hey, everybody can.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Come out to the rally, but given those guys a
platform and letting them up to the microphone, it's diminishing
the work that many of these mainstream political groups are
trying to do and accomplish out there. So letting neo
Nazis hijack that is unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And that's what happened as well with that rally. There
was a lot of patriotic Australians there representing our country,
which I have no problem with whatsoever, But there was
a moment when Thomas Sewell was talking and you could
see this disquiet in the crowd. The go ham on
a minute, we're not aligned to you, mate.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
And I think that's important to differentiate And I'm glad
you pointed that out because a lot of times that
sort of reality is lost in the noise of the
chaos and the disruption that's going on out in the streets.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
But it's extraordinary. My son, who is twenty two, was
in a pub the other day and someone did a
Nazi sort another young man who was on his talking
about these marches. My son wanted to punch him, and
his friend said, or don't escalate it, and I thought
there was always an excuse to punch a Nazi. It's
extraordinary to me that this. You can go to a
pub in Sydney and someone's doing that. What's going on?
(03:41):
How do we turn these young men around?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
It's not through violence.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I know that's the first thing that comes to mind
for a lot of people, especially when it's such an
abhorrent ideology. But I can tell you over all the
years that I was involved in this stuff, not one
person nobody leaves over getting punched in the face. In fact,
that sort of thing tends to entrench people more. Typically,
when there was violence at these rallies and there was clashes,
(04:08):
anybody that that day that that didn't show up would
be sending in emails calling and saying, hey, I'm sorry
I wasn't there. I'll be at the next one. I
didn't know it was going to be that action filled.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
So when these groups do that and you have the
extreme far left that are out there attacking people on
the on the far right, or vice versa, it goes
both ways. I'm not picking sides on any of this stuff,
because extremism is dangerous no matter what side it's coming from,
and both of the extremes exacerbate the exacerbate the problem
(04:40):
on both sides. It's called reciprocal radicalization, where one side
of radicals gets the other side more radical, and you
have all the people that are in the middle on
the left and right being pulled.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
More towards the extreme. And that's that's a danger for
any society as well.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And you had a lot of trouble in your life
when you were in the group. You know, your family
was affected, your mom, her job that was affected. What
made you get out of it? How did you see
the light?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
As were you asked that?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Because being involved in it for me was a NonStop
train wreck. I mean everything that everything that hate touches
and that extremism touches, it turns to dirt. You know,
it turns to dust. It will tear apart your life.
It tore apart my mother's career, and a lot of
times when you're in the think of it, you don't
think about all that stuff. So it's important to hear
(05:30):
from those of us that have been through it, that
survived it, because being no matter how if you get
on these extreme paths, it's going to lead to prison
or death. That doesn't lead anywhere good. There's nothing positive
that could come out of it. But directly answer your question,
it's conversations. What it was that helped me get out
was sitting down with someone that I thought a couple
of people that I believed were the enemy or were
(05:52):
on the other side. And by the other side, it
don't mean the extreme other side, I just mean people
that were against racism and hate and things of that nature.
So sitting down with those people, seeing their humanity, seeing
the humanity and the so called other, that's life altering.
So that doesn't come from you don't see that through arguing.
You don't see that through punishing or shaming or any
(06:12):
of those kind of things. Those type of behaviors typically
entrenched people further in that ideology. So having conversations with
somebody that might be in the process of being radicalized,
or that's beyond that point, not at a rally or
somewhere where their peers are around, but having one on
one conversations that can be a life changer, and showing
vulnerabilities and having those deeply personal conversations, because when it
(06:36):
all boils down to it, we might have different political beliefs,
et cetera, et cetera, but we have more commonalities than
we have differences, and that's a fact day.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Jeff Scoop, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Thanks for having me, Thanks, thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Welcome to our country.
My Heart podcasts here, more Gold one on one point
seven podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Playlists and listen live on the free iHeart app.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Jersey and Amanda jam Nation.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Most of Australia was shocked to see neo Nazis in
the spotlight at last weekend's immigration rallies, an appalling speech
by Thomas Seule and an attack on a First Nation's camp.
The vision of that was horrific. Well, this has since
seen him arrested. Someone who knows about these groups is
Jeff's Scoop. He's the former leader of America's biggest neo
Nazi group. He now condemns the hateful views that he
(00:44):
once held, and he's hoping to combat that movement. Jeff
Scoop joins us Now, Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Jeff, thanks for having me on the program.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
That's okay. What are the chances you're in town and
this happened. When you saw that going on, what did
you think?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Yeah, it was quite ironic. I went down to the
protest in Melbourne to check it out and see what
was going on down there, so I was able to
witness at firsthand as.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Someone who, as we say it, has a big experience
of being a neo Nazi what is it that draws
a young man into that world?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
What's that path?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
It's gonna be a lot of different things.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
It can be a sense of belonging, it can be
a sense of it could be the ideology. A lot
of young white men are attracted to these kind of
movements because they project strength.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
And things of that nature.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
But they have to you have to look at it
further than that and say, you know what, like the
camp attack, the indigenous camp attack, You've got a bunch
of grown men that are attacking women out there.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
That's not anything honorable or noble or anything of that nature.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
So if you're behaving in that manner, you should be
thinking about is that honorable behavior? Isn't noble behavior? Is
that something that you know? Is that the way you
treat your mother or your sister? You know, it's it's
just it's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You don't seem to say a lot of old Nazis
Is it a young man's game?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, and again I didn't quite hear you.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Oh sorry, you don't say a lot of old Nazis
these rallies? Is it a young man's game?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Well, I mean that really depends.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I mean, you see people of all different ages at
these things, but it is it is highly attractive to
some of these young people that are that are looking
for answers. They're they're looking to get active in the
political scene and things like that, and I think it's
the responsibility. I know, it's the responsibility of the political class.
If you're a mainstream political organization, you don't platform neo Nazis.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
You can say, hey, everybody can.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Come out to the rally, but given those guys a
platform and letting them up to the microphone, it's diminishing
the work that many of these mainstream political groups are
trying to do and accomplish out there. So letting neo
Nazis hijack that is unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And that's what happened as well with that rally. There
was a lot of patriotic Australians there representing our country,
which I have no problem with whatsoever, But there was
a moment when Thomas Sewell was talking and you could
see this disquiet in the crowd. The go ham on
a minute, we're not aligned to you, mate.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
And I think that's important to differentiate And I'm glad
you pointed that out because a lot of times that
sort of reality is lost in the noise of the
chaos and the disruption that's going on out in the streets.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
But it's extraordinary. My son, who is twenty two, was
in a pub the other day and someone did a
Nazi sort another young man who was on his talking
about these marches. My son wanted to punch him, and
his friend said, or don't escalate it, and I thought
there was always an excuse to punch a Nazi. It's
extraordinary to me that this. You can go to a
pub in Sydney and someone's doing that. What's going on?
(03:41):
How do we turn these young men around?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
It's not through violence.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
I know that's the first thing that comes to mind
for a lot of people, especially when it's such an
abhorrent ideology. But I can tell you over all the
years that I was involved in this stuff, not one
person nobody leaves over getting punched in the face. In fact,
that sort of thing tends to entrench people more. Typically,
when there was violence at these rallies and there was clashes,
(04:08):
anybody that that day that that didn't show up would
be sending in emails calling and saying, hey, I'm sorry
I wasn't there. I'll be at the next one. I
didn't know it was going to be that action filled.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
So when these groups do that and you have the
extreme far left that are out there attacking people on
the on the far right, or vice versa, it goes
both ways. I'm not picking sides on any of this stuff,
because extremism is dangerous no matter what side it's coming from,
and both of the extremes exacerbate the exacerbate the problem
(04:40):
on both sides. It's called reciprocal radicalization, where one side
of radicals gets the other side more radical, and you
have all the people that are in the middle on
the left and right being pulled.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
More towards the extreme. And that's that's a danger for
any society as well.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And you had a lot of trouble in your life
when you were in the group. You know, your family
was affected, your mom, her job that was affected. What
made you get out of it? How did you see
the light?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
As were you asked that?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Because being involved in it for me was a NonStop
train wreck. I mean everything that everything that hate touches
and that extremism touches, it turns to dirt. You know,
it turns to dust. It will tear apart your life.
It tore apart my mother's career, and a lot of
times when you're in the think of it, you don't
think about all that stuff. So it's important to hear
(05:30):
from those of us that have been through it, that
survived it, because being no matter how if you get
on these extreme paths, it's going to lead to prison
or death. That doesn't lead anywhere good. There's nothing positive
that could come out of it. But directly answer your question,
it's conversations. What it was that helped me get out
was sitting down with someone that I thought a couple
of people that I believed were the enemy or were
(05:52):
on the other side. And by the other side, it
don't mean the extreme other side, I just mean people
that were against racism and hate and things of that nature.
So sitting down with those people, seeing their humanity, seeing
the humanity and the so called other, that's life altering.
So that doesn't come from you don't see that through arguing.
You don't see that through punishing or shaming or any
(06:12):
of those kind of things. Those type of behaviors typically
entrenched people further in that ideology. So having conversations with
somebody that might be in the process of being radicalized,
or that's beyond that point, not at a rally or
somewhere where their peers are around, but having one on
one conversations that can be a life changer, and showing
vulnerabilities and having those deeply personal conversations, because when it
(06:36):
all boils down to it, we might have different political beliefs,
et cetera, et cetera, but we have more commonalities than
we have differences, and that's a fact day.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Jeff Scoop, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Thanks for having me, Thanks, thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Welcome to our country.
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