🇦🇫 Taliban Bans 'Even The Sound Of A Female Voice' In Public Across Afghanistan

Ravina Shamdasani joins Jonesy & Amanda with the latest on what's happening with the Taliban. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
New Jersey and Amanda jam Nation.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Imagine not being able to speak in public, not being
able to read, or leave the house on your own.
For women in Afghanistan, that's a reality under the new
Taliban rule. To help us understand this situation better, we're
joined by Ravena Shamdacini, a UN spokeswoman who has become
a voice for the voiceless when it comes to the
appalling state of women's rights in Afghanistan.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Ravena, Hello, Hi, thanks for covering this important story.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Look, I've heard the stories along the years since the
Taliban took over, but why has this ratcheted up? What's
going on now?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Well, it's just going from bad to worse. If you're
trying to make sense of this, there is no sense.
Afghanistan is a place where twenty three million people will
require humanitarian assistance, and yet half of the population is
being completely disempowered, not allowed to educate themselves. Even those
who have been very well educated are not allowed to

(01:01):
work and contribute to the economy. This new law is
being presented as in line with Islamic values, but you know,
Islamic scholars themselves, are, to put it mildly dubious, about
these claims. It really seems to be an entrenchment of
power by the most radical of the Taliban.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
And when Joe Biden got out of Afghanistan, he's then
left it to the Taliban, the Talibans and on now
we're going to be where the new Taliban, we're going
to be a moderate Taliban. This is definitely not the case.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's definitely not the case. Promises were made by them
to you know, promote a more moderate kind of governance
in line with Islamic values, but yet moderate, and they
were seeing the exact opposite. First it was secondary school education,
university education. Then it was the right to work, and
now we're seeing even just the right for women to

(01:54):
speak in public being targeted. And of course men are
not being spared either. There are you know, many very
repressive laws that impact on men as well. You have
children who are being impacted, male and female, female headed households.
For example. You can think about how women who were
meant to support the elderly and their family, their extended families,

(02:16):
their children are no longer able to do that. So
it's really having a huge impact on the entire economy
and social structure in Afghanistan.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
So what exactly are these new rules? Women can't speak
in public, but what are the ones that are stopping
women helping their elderly parents, etc.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, women are not allowed to work either. Even women
who actually work for the United Nations were not allowed
to come to the office, so they're not allowed to
be productive members of society and earn a living. And
then you've got women who you know were in political
office for example, women are not allowed to hold political
office anymore. Now you have women who previously as well,

(02:57):
there were rules imposing the wearing of the full worka
meaning the face being covered as well, and this has
now been enshrined in law by the defacto authorities. So
the full worka cover from head to toe, including faces.
There's a band for transport providers on transporting women unless
they're accompanied by a male relative. Think about when you

(03:17):
need to rush a family member to the hospital. How
are you going to do that if you don't have
a male relative who can accompany you. And literally the
prohibition of women's voices being held heard in public at.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
All, it's so hard for us to understand that. How
are women in Afghanistan dealing with these new laws. How
do they find a place for the anger?

Speaker 1 (03:38):
You can only imagine, can't you. I mean, I was there.
I haven't been there in the past two years, but
I was there right after the Taliban took over, and
we met some of these women. And these are women
who were mayors, who were doctors, who were you know,
community activists. It shouldn't surprise you to hear that these
were super articulate, super intelligent women who were there with solutions.
They had very close contact with the people in their

(04:00):
own communities, as you know women tend to in in
many parts of the world, and they had solutions to offer.
And again, this is a society which is broken. You
have an economy which is not functioning, high level of
humanitarian aid needed, and these women have been silenced. Now
they're not allowed to have a seat at the table.
And I remember we asked them at the time, well,
we're going to be meeting Taliban leaders, what do you

(04:21):
want us to convey to them? And they said, we
don't need your voices. We want our own voices to
be heard. We want the only thing we want you
to ask them is to give us a seat at
the table so that we can join in trying to
solve these problems.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
And you wouldn't be able to get back there, would you.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I mean, the un is present on the ground, but
we have to work very carefully. We are engaging with
the Taliban actually, because you know, isolation, when you have
no option, isolation is really not not the best solution.
You have to try to engage and try to influence
even the little bit that you can.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
This society about forty to fifty years ago was quite
was progressive. I've seen of the women at university wearing
regular clothes, miniskirts. Even is this a should we all like?
Looking at America's proposed reproductive laws under some of the Republicans,
should this be a lesson that you can never assume
that things are carved in stone.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
You can never assume things are carved in stone, especially
when it comes to women's rights. We've progressed so much,
and it's amazing to look back a couple of decades
and see how much women have been able to. You know,
it's taken for granted in most parts of the world
that women will work, women go to universities. Many universities
have more female students than they have male students. But

(05:39):
if you look at the gender gap, it's very much
still there. When I go to the UN for the
General Assembly and I hear all the heads of states speaking,
the vast majority of them are still men. Why is that?
And then you look at places in the Western world
as well, including the United States, including Europe, and you
see the pushback on gender equality. You see sexual and

(06:01):
reproductive rights that we were taking for granted being slowly
taken away under the guise of family values movements, which
of course have nothing to do with family values, but
they're really about power play of the men who remain
in power.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
No. Well, Ravena, it's fascinating as to talk to you.
Ravena sham Desani, thanks for joining us.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
You're welcome. Thanks for covering the story.