October 28, 2025 • 9 mins
Julia Zemiro chatted with Lisa and Russell about the new ABC show she is hosting, Crime Night!
It features an expert team of criminologists and comedians who dive beneath the surface of crime to discover the science and psychology behind it all.
Lisa also shared with Julia her recent jury duty experience.
Crime Night! starts next Wednesday 8:30pm on ABC TV and ABC iview.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Eight thirty next Wednesday on the ABC and I View,
of course, begins Crime Night, Julia's Emiro's new show about
our strange love of true crime. Julia's with us now.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello, Hello, how are you going good?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I am absolutely guilty of this. I've always been a
huge fan of true crime, and I reckon it's been
through the advent of podcasts and streaming documentaries that I've
realized just how not alone I am.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
True I am not a true crime fan. I just
think I just think there's crime. There's not true crime,
crime crime, and then there's dramatic crime. You know, there's
crime shows that are written that we might enjoy watching
because they pretend and they've got great actors who've you
been able to learn a part, and they have been
great writers who have written something for them. But I
(00:49):
think there's been a little misunderstanding because it's funny, you know,
you sh make a show you call the show crime Night,
and people go, oh, it's about true crime. We certainly
look at aspects of it, but it's about criminology. Our producer,
Frank during Covid did a criminology degree, right, I do, yeah,
and he loved his lecturers Danielle and David so much
(01:10):
and he makes TV and he thought, well, I wonder
if this could be a show and spoke with them
and said would you be in for this? And they said,
we would love to spread the word about what makes
criminology an amazing subject but what goes into it? And
each episode looks at different aspects of that, surveillance, conformity, scams, alibis,
and really it's a lot about human behavior. And I
(01:30):
think you're right, Lie, So part of the true crime
attraction is that we are fascinated by human behavior that
goes bad. And I guess sometimes we put ourselves in
the position and go, what would I do if this
happen to me or is in my world? And I
think there's some great true crime podcasts out there, you know,
when they take the subject kind of seriously, but sometimes
I think they milk twenty five episodes out of a
(01:52):
story that could have gone for ten and give those victims,
you know, give those victims a story, but not really
use their pain for entertainment. But we don't do any
of that. We will be there with great respect, and
we do have comedians and criminologists on the panel, but
the comedians. We really hand chose them to say, we
know you're smart, we know you're curious, ask good questions,
(02:14):
and if we do any comedy, it'll be towards yourselves,
not towards the material.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Trying to find the light aside to crime, Lisa was
saying that she is a true crime in her case,
Fan I actually heard just a few days ago the
numbers show that it's actually women.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Who are far more fascinating.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Fascinated by true crime and crime stories more so than men.
I wonder why that is.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Because it happens because men do all the crimes.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Women are no.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
No, Well that's another conversation. But I would say, the
theory behind the theory, Oh do you need to go
that far back? The theory behind it is that the
theory behind women loving it is from what I understand,
is that it's a fascination around going what would I
(03:01):
do if I were in that situation. It's like listening
to the worst case scenario to kind of figure out
how not to do it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And I don't know if that works necessarily. And sure,
you could bring up the mushroom case.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I was just going to say something a little more recent.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Of course, but again, I would say it's there became
this fascination about the way she did it. But if
she had been quite violent, you know, if she had
killed those three people with a gun, the story might
not have gone on as long as it did. But
somehow Australians found the hilarity supposed hilarity around the fact
that it was done with poisoning and mushrooms, and really
I think that got completely out of that went completely
(03:38):
off piece.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So do I.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I found that whole story very awkward. The way people were,
you know, the way they talked about it.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Do you touch on that or is it a little
too soon?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
There's one sentence around it, and it was really from
the panel. It's not in the script. It was from
the panel who mentioned it in terms of something that
made sense to what we were talking about. But really,
if you're watching it, if you're tuning into watch the
show for that, it won't be there. You'll be disappointed,
So go and listen to a podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's like, furthermore to that, it's like that guy that
shot the health care guy in New York and everyone
was banging on about how good looking he was. I
felt like I was living in a parallel.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
World a strange twist.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, but also if you look at cases historically, that
sort of stuff's always happened strangely well, And so I
know it's funny whether it was one hundred years ago
on now, they will find those angles. We just have
it now on an unbelievable scale because of social media,
twenty four our news service, all of that. But look
in our shows, we really try and look at elements
around human behavior because at the end of the day,
(04:41):
if you are accused of something, we have to rely
on our fellow human beings standing in the jury or
come in with eye witness accounts. They're going to decide
tould agree what happens. And you know, any of us
are a step away from doing something wrong, whether we
want to or not. If you are someone who is
homeless through no fault of your own, and often it
(05:01):
is through no fault of your own to do something illegal,
to get money, to do something, what would you do
if you're in that situation. You might steal, you might
do something. And so back to the idea that we
live in a society where we should try and look
after everyone. So I hope we can give it that
bigger angle. And it's only series one. We've only got
six episodes, so in series two we hope to build
(05:23):
on that good will.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, it's funny you should say that because I've just
been on jury duty and I have and as I've
said to everyone, it affected me in ways I absolutely
never would have imagined.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So it is, Lisa, you are the perfect person. That
is exactly. But I mean, isn't that fascinating. That's what
we try and view in one of our episodes that
you think you are right?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, well yeah I am, but you think you will
think one way, you know, and then there's all these
extenuating sort of circumstances that you're not you can't consider
and it really does affect and you're making a decision
that's going to mean someone goes to.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
You absolutely and when you've got that kind of weight
on your shoulders, we start to go, well, how judgmental
am I? Or how much can I separate the facts
from what I'm thinking? Where does my own personal bias
come in? We talk about bias in a couple of
the episodes. It's natural to have a bias. It's kind
of impossible in a way. We all grow up in
a certain set of circumstances. But wow, I think I
(06:24):
would love to do jury judy. The only two times
I've been asked, I couldn't do it because I was working.
But I just think it must be a fascinating thing.
And I hope you share really well with people. Yeah, yeah,
because only you know.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
What it was like.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, Julia, out of all the crime cases that you
investigate on the series, what's the one that really gripped
you that affected you.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Look, we do, we do touch on the Asari Chamberlain case,
and I will say that touched me because I was
fifteen and it was sort of everywhere. And this is
the other thing. As I was reflecting on it, we
were doing the research that blew up as much as
it could within what we had in terms of what
we didn't have social media, but that stuff was everywhere.
(07:07):
So again it's not just about the social media we
have today. That story was everywhere and I was I
remember at fifteen and my mum talking to me about it,
and we were talking and dissecting this idea of why
is this woman who is not responding as a woman
is supposedly supposed to respond. She's not crying, she doesn't
look upset how we all decided or society decided she
(07:31):
was guilty by the way she looked, by the fact
that she followed a certain religion, by the fact that
it was done on a national icon like Ularu. It
had the sort of a sort of a kind of
with the stage, if you like, of it was very
grand and very Australian if you like. And so all
these things came together where as a pack mentality, the
(07:51):
audience in general, people in general decided for themselves what
the outcome could be. And we talked about it so
much as fifteen year olds because we couldn't quite get it,
like it was so odd and strange and what was
And in the end, when Lindy was eventually exonerated, and
we talk about the lack of the terrible forensic investigation,
things that weren't looked at. They got an expert from
(08:12):
England on who knew nothing about dingos. And again, wouldn't
it have been incredible if we'd actually spoken to First
Nations rangers and First Nations people who know about dingos.
It's all that kind of thing that's missing from the
justice system where that woman's life. Not only did she
lose her child, then had to go to prison, have
that incredible kind of awful life. I met her once
(08:33):
in a lift years later, and I was so overwhelmed
by meeting this woman looking at her. She'd survived it.
It was in the time which she kind of she
dyed her hair kind of purple or pink. She had
a crazy kind of color in her hair, and I
didn't I don't know if she recognized me or not,
but we just had this lovely conversation and I just
wanted to give her kind words, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, they all feel a little bit guilty about living completely.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, completely. And in the film that was made of it,
there's a great moment where in the film they they
kept going back to the filmmaker decided to kind of
set some of the scenes in everyday kitchens and workplaces
to see what the conversation was. And yeah, everyone was
just dumping on her and had very strong opinions. And
that stuff spreads, and it spreads now like wildfire, but
(09:16):
it was spreading then.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, you said pack mentality, That's what it was. People
were baying for her.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Absolutely, All right, Well, we.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Could talk all day, but we can't. We're not allowed, Julia,
we will be tuning in next Wednesday, eight thirty on ABC,
just one week to go.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Thanks for chatting for pleasure. I hope you all enjoy
it and I hope you'll get something out of it.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Oh, thank you, Julia, Julia Bye,
Eight thirty next Wednesday on the ABC and I View,
of course, begins Crime Night, Julia's Emiro's new show about
our strange love of true crime. Julia's with us now.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello, Hello, how are you going good?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I am absolutely guilty of this. I've always been a
huge fan of true crime, and I reckon it's been
through the advent of podcasts and streaming documentaries that I've
realized just how not alone I am.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
True I am not a true crime fan. I just
think I just think there's crime. There's not true crime,
crime crime, and then there's dramatic crime. You know, there's
crime shows that are written that we might enjoy watching
because they pretend and they've got great actors who've you
been able to learn a part, and they have been
great writers who have written something for them. But I
(00:49):
think there's been a little misunderstanding because it's funny, you know,
you sh make a show you call the show crime Night,
and people go, oh, it's about true crime. We certainly
look at aspects of it, but it's about criminology. Our producer,
Frank during Covid did a criminology degree, right, I do, yeah,
and he loved his lecturers Danielle and David so much
(01:10):
and he makes TV and he thought, well, I wonder
if this could be a show and spoke with them
and said would you be in for this? And they said,
we would love to spread the word about what makes
criminology an amazing subject but what goes into it? And
each episode looks at different aspects of that, surveillance, conformity, scams, alibis,
and really it's a lot about human behavior. And I
(01:30):
think you're right, Lie, So part of the true crime
attraction is that we are fascinated by human behavior that
goes bad. And I guess sometimes we put ourselves in
the position and go, what would I do if this
happen to me or is in my world? And I
think there's some great true crime podcasts out there, you know,
when they take the subject kind of seriously, but sometimes
I think they milk twenty five episodes out of a
(01:52):
story that could have gone for ten and give those victims,
you know, give those victims a story, but not really
use their pain for entertainment. But we don't do any
of that. We will be there with great respect, and
we do have comedians and criminologists on the panel, but
the comedians. We really hand chose them to say, we
know you're smart, we know you're curious, ask good questions,
(02:14):
and if we do any comedy, it'll be towards yourselves,
not towards the material.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Trying to find the light aside to crime, Lisa was
saying that she is a true crime in her case,
Fan I actually heard just a few days ago the
numbers show that it's actually women.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Who are far more fascinating.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Fascinated by true crime and crime stories more so than men.
I wonder why that is.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Because it happens because men do all the crimes.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Women are no.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
No, Well that's another conversation. But I would say, the
theory behind the theory, Oh do you need to go
that far back? The theory behind it is that the
theory behind women loving it is from what I understand,
is that it's a fascination around going what would I
(03:01):
do if I were in that situation. It's like listening
to the worst case scenario to kind of figure out
how not to do it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And I don't know if that works necessarily. And sure,
you could bring up the mushroom case.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I was just going to say something a little more recent.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Of course, but again, I would say it's there became
this fascination about the way she did it. But if
she had been quite violent, you know, if she had
killed those three people with a gun, the story might
not have gone on as long as it did. But
somehow Australians found the hilarity supposed hilarity around the fact
that it was done with poisoning and mushrooms, and really
I think that got completely out of that went completely
(03:38):
off piece.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
So do I.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I found that whole story very awkward. The way people were,
you know, the way they talked about it.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Do you touch on that or is it a little
too soon?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
There's one sentence around it, and it was really from
the panel. It's not in the script. It was from
the panel who mentioned it in terms of something that
made sense to what we were talking about. But really,
if you're watching it, if you're tuning into watch the
show for that, it won't be there. You'll be disappointed,
So go and listen to a podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's like, furthermore to that, it's like that guy that
shot the health care guy in New York and everyone
was banging on about how good looking he was. I
felt like I was living in a parallel.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
World a strange twist.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, but also if you look at cases historically, that
sort of stuff's always happened strangely well, And so I
know it's funny whether it was one hundred years ago
on now, they will find those angles. We just have
it now on an unbelievable scale because of social media,
twenty four our news service, all of that. But look
in our shows, we really try and look at elements
around human behavior because at the end of the day,
(04:41):
if you are accused of something, we have to rely
on our fellow human beings standing in the jury or
come in with eye witness accounts. They're going to decide
tould agree what happens. And you know, any of us
are a step away from doing something wrong, whether we
want to or not. If you are someone who is
homeless through no fault of your own, and often it
(05:01):
is through no fault of your own to do something illegal,
to get money, to do something, what would you do
if you're in that situation. You might steal, you might
do something. And so back to the idea that we
live in a society where we should try and look
after everyone. So I hope we can give it that
bigger angle. And it's only series one. We've only got
six episodes, so in series two we hope to build
(05:23):
on that good will.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, it's funny you should say that because I've just
been on jury duty and I have and as I've
said to everyone, it affected me in ways I absolutely
never would have imagined.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So it is, Lisa, you are the perfect person. That
is exactly. But I mean, isn't that fascinating. That's what
we try and view in one of our episodes that
you think you are right?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, well yeah I am, but you think you will
think one way, you know, and then there's all these
extenuating sort of circumstances that you're not you can't consider
and it really does affect and you're making a decision
that's going to mean someone goes to.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
You absolutely and when you've got that kind of weight
on your shoulders, we start to go, well, how judgmental
am I? Or how much can I separate the facts
from what I'm thinking? Where does my own personal bias
come in? We talk about bias in a couple of
the episodes. It's natural to have a bias. It's kind
of impossible in a way. We all grow up in
a certain set of circumstances. But wow, I think I
(06:24):
would love to do jury judy. The only two times
I've been asked, I couldn't do it because I was working.
But I just think it must be a fascinating thing.
And I hope you share really well with people. Yeah, yeah,
because only you know.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
What it was like.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, Julia, out of all the crime cases that you
investigate on the series, what's the one that really gripped
you that affected you.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Look, we do, we do touch on the Asari Chamberlain case,
and I will say that touched me because I was
fifteen and it was sort of everywhere. And this is
the other thing. As I was reflecting on it, we
were doing the research that blew up as much as
it could within what we had in terms of what
we didn't have social media, but that stuff was everywhere.
(07:07):
So again it's not just about the social media we
have today. That story was everywhere and I was I
remember at fifteen and my mum talking to me about it,
and we were talking and dissecting this idea of why
is this woman who is not responding as a woman
is supposedly supposed to respond. She's not crying, she doesn't
look upset how we all decided or society decided she
(07:31):
was guilty by the way she looked, by the fact
that she followed a certain religion, by the fact that
it was done on a national icon like Ularu. It
had the sort of a sort of a kind of
with the stage, if you like, of it was very
grand and very Australian if you like. And so all
these things came together where as a pack mentality, the
(07:51):
audience in general, people in general decided for themselves what
the outcome could be. And we talked about it so
much as fifteen year olds because we couldn't quite get it,
like it was so odd and strange and what was
And in the end, when Lindy was eventually exonerated, and
we talk about the lack of the terrible forensic investigation,
things that weren't looked at. They got an expert from
(08:12):
England on who knew nothing about dingos. And again, wouldn't
it have been incredible if we'd actually spoken to First
Nations rangers and First Nations people who know about dingos.
It's all that kind of thing that's missing from the
justice system where that woman's life. Not only did she
lose her child, then had to go to prison, have
that incredible kind of awful life. I met her once
(08:33):
in a lift years later, and I was so overwhelmed
by meeting this woman looking at her. She'd survived it.
It was in the time which she kind of she
dyed her hair kind of purple or pink. She had
a crazy kind of color in her hair, and I
didn't I don't know if she recognized me or not,
but we just had this lovely conversation and I just
wanted to give her kind words, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, they all feel a little bit guilty about living completely.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, completely. And in the film that was made of it,
there's a great moment where in the film they they
kept going back to the filmmaker decided to kind of
set some of the scenes in everyday kitchens and workplaces
to see what the conversation was. And yeah, everyone was
just dumping on her and had very strong opinions. And
that stuff spreads, and it spreads now like wildfire, but
(09:16):
it was spreading then.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, you said pack mentality, That's what it was. People
were baying for her.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Absolutely, All right, Well, we.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Could talk all day, but we can't. We're not allowed, Julia,
we will be tuning in next Wednesday, eight thirty on ABC,
just one week to go.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Thanks for chatting for pleasure. I hope you all enjoy
it and I hope you'll get something out of it.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Oh, thank you, Julia, Julia Bye,
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