Dixie Crawford

Dixie Crawford is a Barkindji woman who lives and works on Ngunnawal country. She is the Founder and Managing Director of Nganya. Nganya, meaning fire starter or flame, perfectly describes the way Dixie collaborates with clients, connects to communities, and challenges the status quo of mediocre leadership on social policy and equity. Dixie uses her lived experiences to challenge ideas and the way ‘it’s always been done’; she wants to make a difference in the way Aboriginal people are heard and understood. Her passion is helping others to understand the cause of barriers that impact thinking and doing when it comes to engaging with and creating opportunities for First Nations peoples and communities to thrive. She encourages people to live into the value of robust and purposeful leadership, and be the catalyst of change within organisations and communities.

At Nganya, Dixie leads stakeholder engagement, masterclasses, executive coaching, and the design, implementation and monitoring of Reconciliation Action Plans and First Nations Strategies. She launched her ‘Black Business with Dixie Crawford’ podcast this year, was named one of ‘20 Australian Women Making Moves in 2022’ by the Australian Business Journal, was a speaker at the 2022 Reconciliation Australia conference and was appointed to the Cricket ACT Board.

Meet the Mob is originally a YouTube series dedicated to showcasing Blak Excellence in Indigenous Business. Each interview is designed to provide an introduction to an Indigenous business leader, what drives them to succeed and how they're creating positive change for organisations and Indigenous communities. #meetthemob #indigenousbusiness #indigenousprocurement #supplierdiversity #BlakExcellence

ABOUT NGANYA Nganya are Aboriginal engagement consultants. They provide a people and relationship-focused approach to better community engagement to ensure two-way relationships are nurtured with Aboriginal communities. They support and stretch organisations to make valuable contributions that achieve sustainable social change for equitable outcomes. https://nganya.com.au/

ABOUT KRISTAL Kristal Kinsela is the supplier diversity expert who’s done it all before. A published author, trusted advisor to leading global organisations and descendant of both the Jawoyn and Wiradjuri nations, Kristal brings lived experience and over 18 years of business expertise to every partnership.

CONNECT WITH KRISTAL Website: https://www.kristalkinsela.com/ LinkedIn:   / kristalkinsela   Facebook: .css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
We're respectfully acknowledge the Gatigle people of the eurination and
as the traditional custodians on the lands in which that
was created. Hi, I'm Chrystal Kinsella. I'm a proud Jarwin
and Badrew Wimer, a supply diversity expert and published author.
Welcome to Meet the Mob, a series dedicated to showcasing
Black excellence in business. I get to interview deadly first

(00:24):
Nation business owners from around the country and learn about
their why.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Today I'm joined by Dixie Crawford.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
So I'm Dixie Crawford. I'm a Barcancry woman from Broken
Hill and brew Warrener in far western New South Wales.
I currently live on an all country down in Canberra,
very cold Canberra, struggling with the winter, struggling with the
decision of why I chose to move to Camber but anyway,
it was big, so we're not moving for a couple

(00:50):
of years. I run a business called Nagaya, which in
Barcuntry language means firelighter and when you get to know
me you will understand why that was the most appropriate
name for my business. Yeah, yeah, that's me.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
So talk to me about your why. Why are you
in business, why do you do what you do?

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I want to be honest, like big picture, and sometimes
when people talk about what's your purpose, I was just
to roll my eyes at that because I didn't and
I was, you know, not being critical of the public service, right,
but you know, like the bureaucracy is a bit of
a grind sometimes and I didn't really feel joy and
happiness or know that I was actually making impact on
the work that I was doing. And now that I've

(01:33):
been in operations for four years and now that I
look back over the work that we've been doing, I
would describe it as being really intentional, impactful, and certainly
around wanting to make an impact on equity. So we
know that not everyone is on the level playing field, right,
and we think that funding programs and giving people access

(01:55):
to services is going to be the thing that changes
their life, that may makes the you know, makes them
feel good about themselves, gives them access to opportunities. Just
because someone has access to a service doesn't mean that
it's successful. And the work that we do is certainly
around advocacy and making sure that we look beyond the
surface around the impact and the outcome of what someone

(02:16):
is going through. So we might think that a program
that we're delivering actually has, you know, is outcomes focus,
but what's the impact of that outcome. So we do
a lot of work with people around curiosity and around
looking at what the potential impact of the work is
that we do or that they are doing with the
communities that they're connected to, and making sure that the

(02:38):
investment that you make in community does go a long way.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Right.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
It doesn't just make you look or feel good as
an organization when you're working with people. What's changing people's life.
So we are tenaciously pursuing equity and having really important
conversations that go beyond the surface level.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, and I guess that's what does set you upon
because you are so brave and courageous to have some
of those really difficult conversations. And I know how I
felt what I've been in a room with you, even
in the online rooms, how you really challenge people and
get them to think deep but also to I guess

(03:18):
invoke their own curiosity to go and do the work
that they need to do well.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
I think we have similar yarns together SINSU and I
because the indigenous business sector, there's a lot of money
that is certainly invested, right, and it's great, But I
really want to encourage people to have an investment in
organizations and with businesses that actually are having practical and
tangible one connections with communities, right, Because it's one thing

(03:46):
to say, oh, we're donating to this organization or we
invest in this program, but you're not following where the
expenditure goes. And I'm sure you have those conversations with
your clients, right because it's one thing to say, oh,
we're investing twenty or thirty thousand dollars in this program
which goes to wards kids or goes towards you know,
healthy relationships or healthy eating programs and all of those
type of things. It's important, right, But how else do

(04:07):
you follow the money and the expenditure of the dollar
from an impact perspective and whose family is that actually affecting?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Right?

Speaker 3 (04:15):
So we do well, we fund a lot of programs
in our business which are part of our contracts we fund.
You know that we support the PCYC in a program
in Dubbo which three hundred kids go to on a
Friday night, and we want to build a healthy relationship
between kids and the local career community that are there,
particularly our young people.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Right.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
We fund a program in Ruwarna, which is where I
come from again, around the relationship between the police and
domestic and family violence and making sure that when someone
is in trouble, a young girl is in trouble, she
knows she can pick up the telephone and talk to
one of the police officers and they're going to help us. Right.
And so that relationship building aspect of those programs is
important because when we talk about that access and accessibility,

(04:56):
that's the point of difference, right, It's the relationship. So
it's not about the transaction of we've done this work,
we're giving this money to this program. Where's the transformational
leadership in those relationships that make up that give original
people the opportunity to equitable outcomes.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
So practically, if my clients wanted to work with you
or anybody that's out they wanted to work with you,
what does that look like? What does it what does
what does that translate into from a products and service perspective,
and how do they engage with you?

Speaker 3 (05:27):
So the first thing that I would have to say
is that you have to be good people, right, Like,
like I'm just like staring straight down the value barrel.
You have to be good people for us to work
with because in our business we say no to work
with people more times than what we say yes. Again,
we have done a lot of work on ourselves as
an organization. We're very focused on the work that we

(05:49):
want to do and who we want to connect with.
If you're not good people and you do not have
good intentions or you're not purpose driven, we're not gonna
work with you, right because you can go and pick
another organization to work with. We are the type of
we do the tough stuff right. Like, we have conversations
that make people feel uncomfortable, but people lean into those
conversations because they know that they know what they know

(06:12):
and they know what they don't know.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
So, when you know something and you feel safe and
secure within that knowledge, we're going to push you beyond that.
We're going to ask you the questions about that you know,
Tell me what you know about that, Tell me more
about that. It's that expansive questioning line of questioning that
help people, people and organizations recognize what their true potential
is around influence and connection with organized with Aboriginal communities.

(06:35):
And that's the work that we do. So there's definitely
going to be an alignment in values, but demonstrated values.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
It's one thing to say this is what's important to me.
It's another thing for you to show me what's important
to you.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
So we work on reconciliation action plans when we do wraps.
It's not a matter of just working with an organization
to build the framework of the reconciliation action plan, right,
because a lot of them are the same. It's the
application and the implementation within your organization that is the
point of difference. Say it is it really is, right,

(07:08):
because if you don't do it the right way for
your organization, it's not gonna have an impact. It's not
gonna change the lived experiences of Aboriginal people in this country, right,
It's not gonna be your experience of reconciliation and the
relationships that you've got to build with people. So we
are very much focused on people potential and that skills

(07:28):
development around negotiation, around communication, around storytelling, and certainly around
unconscious bias and looking at where's our limitations but also
where's our potential because if you get caught in the limitations,
and that can be a negative conversation that you internalize
that then stops you from leading into the right conversations
that you need to have. And so we do push

(07:50):
people in the rooms our clients when we're in conversations,
we push them to a place where the're uncomfortable, where
they feel vulnerable. But if you don't do that with us,
and then you want to go out and have coversations
with Aboriginal communities and you're not prepared for that, that's
going to go horribly wrong for you, right, because there's
all these things that have occurred over the last two
years around you know, white people thinking they know what's

(08:12):
best for Aboriginal people, you know, and we use this
language called white savior. Isn't more of the time, right,
Like this is common language that is used. So you're
just got to be careful. Our job is about building
up your capability to have the maximum amount of impact
that you can within communities. So yeah, that's the work
that we do. Well.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
It sounds like a lot of people need to embrace
themselves if they want to work with the fire data.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
It's a non negative weight.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
But you know, I completely get get it, because you
want that values alignment and if people want just the
feel good touch you feel good stuff that makes them
feel comfortable. I'm not your girl, know well, it's actually
not going to stretch them. We do our best learning
when we really step outside the box and we think
and we feel bigger.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, so that critical self reflection is the most important
thing from our perspective, right, Like, we will have conversations
with you, and we will pose questions to your leadership team,
and you will think about them weeks months later, right,
and you'll come back to that and you'll be like, oh, oh,
my goodness, that did something hit me in my head
and my heart and my belly for me to then

(09:19):
think about this later. So there's more work for me
to do. So if there's anything that you the work
that we do is long lasting, I think in our organization.
And then you will then go out and start facilitating
effective conversations with the people that you're connected to, whether
it's your family, whether it's your organization, your friends group,
you know, where you do volunteering. What you learn with
us and them, what you learn with us about yourself

(09:41):
and the role that you play in terms of reconciliation,
it does have a ripple effect.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, definitely. So let me ask, what is your legacy?
What is it that Dixie wants to be remembered for.
That's a big question.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Have you thought you want to be remembered for having
fantastic fashion? If I'm to be If you can't see this,
I've got these beautiful Kermit green pants on it right
now and I just called color blocking. I don't know.
I haven't thought about that.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
I I wanna live in the moment, but I also
do see you know, the future. I I think I
I want our work to matter. Yeah, I want the
storytelling of the conversations to live on in the way
that people have see that. There's more work that's to
be done, right, Like, it's not about the transaction of

(10:35):
closing the gap or you know, like looking at life
expectancy or stimulating an indigenous business economy. We can contribute
to that, but that's not a defining moment for me,
right Like a defining moment is someone saying to me,
I get it, I understand it, and I'm gonna lean
into the work and I'm gonna actually do the work,
and then you see people doing the work. That's the

(10:55):
legacy bit for me. When we work with organizations. We
that we say that there's two who really keep collectives
of people within organizations. There's champions and then there's sponsors. Right,
so your sponsors are the people that have the delegation
and responsibility around a KPI and then the champions of
the people that are having the conversations when I'm not

(11:16):
in the room, for example, right they're saying, what are
we doing from an aboriginal impact perspective? Or are we
doing acknowledgement of country? Or when they're doing events, we've
got to organize an Aboriginal speaker to be a part
of a penel or do you know what I mean? Like,
it's that that's the legacy. But I think when we
that diversity and inclusion, it just isn't the transaction or
the visibility. It's the intention and it's the greater impact

(11:37):
and purpose that people are are demonstrating every single day
in their literally in their day to day operations. So
I think that's it. I hope that's it. That is
in a nutshell, yeah, I think so. I think it's
just like, you know, the legacy is things continuing on, Yeah,
when you're not there.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
For my prospect with people standing up being courageous. Yeah,
owning it and just getting on.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
With it, leaning into it. I mean, you're not going
to die if you say the wrong thing. You're said
my clients all the time, you know, like they get
worried about their acknowledgment of country, and I just say, well,
are you're going to die if you get it wrong?
Like you're not. Like it's you learn that you learn,
and you know you may not make that mistake again,
or maybe you do that, make that mistake again again.

(12:21):
You're not going to die. It's gonna be okay. But
we all have to have these lived experiences if we
really want to do the work right, Like if we
really are prepared to lead in and have an impact,
we've got to have those uncomfortable experiences and conversations.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
And any kind of final words that you want to
put out there in relation to who you are, what
you do, and how people can work with you.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Who we are. We are the type of people as
an organization that are very much focused on relationships and
fielding a two way street of communication and connection. The
work that we do is focused on leadership development and
not the transaction of cultural capability to training or or

(13:05):
getting a rapped done. So if you wanna have surface
level of yarns, we're definitely not your people are still
taking money, No, I won't actually, but it's it's it's
not we're not about transactional work. It's it's transformative people
work that we do. And one of the programs that
we work on actually is our program called Iye Culture

(13:26):
three sixty and the culture part within that is certainly
about Aboriginal culture, and three sixty is about leadership development
within within organizations and and teams, and because we believe
that in order to be effective leaders within organizations and
for to bring people along the journey within your organization,

(13:46):
you've got to be able to understand the lived experiences
of Aboriginal people. You've certainly got to be able to
expand your skill sets as a leader, and you've got
to be able to influence other people within your organization
and communities that you're connected to. So out the iCulture
three sixty program, we delivered that in a couple of ways.
It's one on one coaching. We do in house programs
as well as run public master classes, which is important.

(14:09):
The public master classes are really important because you then
start to see that there's other people within either your
industry or within your community that are you know that
are really interested in working with original communities and making
an impact.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
So thanks so much Dixie for joining me today and
please stay tuned for the next edition. Thanks for listening
to today's episode. If you love it, please share it
on your socials. With your mob, let's help amplify as
many Indigenous businesses as possible and get everyone supporting each other.
Thank you.