November 24, 2024 • 12 mins
Shaz is of Yamatji and Baluchi (Aboriginal and Australian Afghan camel drivers) decent. Shaz is one of Australia’s leading land access and cultural heritage lawyers. He has 25 years’ legal, management, regulatory and compliance, and dispute resolution experience in the mining, energy, resources, oil and gas industries specialising in cultural heritage, land claims and native title.
His expertise includes advising some of Australia’s largest mining, energy and resources clients on the development and operation of major projects across Australia. Shaz is the Managing Director of Arra Group Pty Ltd (ARRA), a majority Indigenous (Aboriginal), owned, managed, and controlled company, Perth, WA based company. Shaz has successfully founded and built many companies, that are now thriving across WA.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Podcast Unite our voices. We respectfully acknowledge the watchap new
Yon people as the traditional owners of the land in
which the Mob has created.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hi, I'm Crystal Kinsella. I'm a proud Jarwin and Brad
Drew woman, a supply diversity expert and published author. Welcome
to Meet the Mob, a series dedicated to showcasing Black
excellence in business. I get to interview deadly first Nation
business owners from around the country and learn about their wife.
Today I'm joined by Shasrind from Arrah. We'll share with
(00:48):
us his wife, why got into business and he does
what he does. So let's kick it off. Who are you?
Who's your mob?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Look? Personally welcome to wa. This is Waja country. But
were abergees buttermire from uplaws Merstal scenario mother size, that
ritual Dad's side isn't the Ballushi's they coming with the
cavels night in the sixties And I've been pretty blessed
lucky to sort of grow up on lots of country.
I've been a native title lawyer for many years, so
I've literally seen the whole country. You know, some really sacred,
(01:17):
sacred important places. So the whole place for me is home.
It's all special. You're not even the streets here special.
But now based out of person in the last probably
twelve years.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Great, Well, let's start with a really easy one. You know,
what is your wife like?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
What what drives you? What's getting you out of bed
every day?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah? Look, that's a really good question, Crystal. And to
be honest with you, says, I think it's based on
I'm pretty blessed in life. I've been lucky enough to
have good people black white. Can I agree that men
told me and supported me and I started ERA because
you know, we wanted to do something that was different.
We wanted to do something that was genuine and give
(01:57):
our young people a chance to work, to train up,
you know, to go and try to aim really high.
So we work in all gas of body and you know,
that's what we wanted the next generation of the aberginal
workforce to look at. How can I get sklled up
in the all a gas of boding space. And now
we're taking up the relieable energy space. So saying, well,
what are the opportunities you know, for our bob in
(02:18):
this new let's say industry that's been created with clean
energy and so that's what we're trying to do. Like
you know, we keep it homeble, we do keep a
low profile.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well there's no low profiles. We'd meet them mob because
we're going to put your face all over YouTube.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
All right, that'll be fun. Yeah yeah, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So creating some pathways around oil, minding gas, but now
in this renewable energy space. Yeah, so talk to us
about some of the things that AURA does.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah. Look, our's got three parts of the business. We've
got sort of the the let's say the talent side
of it, where we got people that work for us
and projects and all the gas and boding. And then
we run our own contracts, so we contract to DUBLE Defense.
You know, we want a handful of average companies that
contract directly the defense. And then we also got a
group training organization. So that's like the talent pipeline. So
(03:07):
the group training organization basically is it's like an RTO,
but we call it a GTO. We get people in
the produces trainees, and we give young people a chance.
Even some brothers and sisters out of jail don't want
to change their life, and so we My vested interest
is I get to look at the talent here that
we test about our projects and if they do really well,
(03:28):
while there's a there's a Carrocter, you get your trade
ship or your trade you're going to get the big dollars.
You're going to go and work for the big boys
and the big bleacher company. So that's how we do it.
It's I've been to Dawn. This a third company that
I've built. Sarah's my baby. I had most of it.
That's so responsible for it. How's arabing around for us seven?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Is? Wow, that's pretty He's a defense you know, like
so working for Defense. I've done some work with them
and some of the Defense primes before. It's it's hard
yack kind of to meet requirements and yeah, to get
any track record there.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Look, it is a little thing. A lot of people
said that it's too hard, it's too difficult, and I
think the challenge for all of us as individuals and
some of the young people, Well, if it's too hard,
it's too difficult, how to get around that? And I thought, well,
I'm going to try and crack it. Look, we cracked
Defense in three months. We had a contract direct because
we had all the white we were already a mainstream contractor.
(04:27):
So I don't think there's a bucket of Aberiginal companies
here and long aberiginal companies here. We're a main stream
Australian company that happens to the majority average alone. We
can work wherever the funk I want to work. Sorry,
all right, Well that's good. I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I love that because you know, I guess one of
the things is is that sometimes you know, you could
be you can be tainted by saying that you're an
indigenous company put in a bucket over here in Pigeonhole.
But I like that kind of that mantriance saying, you know,
we are mainstream company just happen to be majority owned
(05:08):
and you're breaking down the doors and creating pathplays.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Look, we're trying to do the right thing and doing
the right thing. You know, you've got to be general
about it. You're going to have a passion. And I
think we see all this reconciliation actually plans and abrgual
procurement and all these kinds of things. Well, we you know,
we look at that, so how much is that really
making a difference. We actually got control, so we can
(05:31):
decide on how much you know, we want the average
workforce to be how much talent do we want to
bring in? You know, how do we target you know,
people for our business. You know, some young sisters this week,
women in a lot of traditional trades. So we got
two abigual girls that started at sidback you know as
border backer World is. Yeah, a couple couple of girls
(05:51):
and the ones got yamage connections, so they started, you
know in a lot of traditional trade building. Funnily enough
over there, I can't talk too much about it, but
they're going to be building some pretty high and stuff
for defense. These young girls learning how to be bought
and making worlds.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It's a great will. There will be a great story
as it progresses. Look, yeah, particularly in those those types
of trades which are pretty heavily male dominated.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But exactly so, you actually our I think, you know,
we're trying to use our platform. You know, we're blessed
and you know, and I think we're trying to use
our platform to get more AVERA. Sure people have different
job choices, you know, and we say to people, look, brother,
you here or yeah, you know we're not we're not
certainly we're a commercial outfit. These are the obligations, These
(06:35):
are the responsibilities, These are things that will teach you.
And our business safety is number one, as you know,
you know in the order gas somebody, You're going to
look after yourself, look after your base, look after the
people around you, you know. And we do put some
pretty third policies in like we tell them like we
won't put up with sexes of racism, discrimination, you know,
all these things that we entrench in them to empower them.
(06:56):
So when they're in the workforce, they know that my employer,
my boss and why person will back me up. That's
what we teach them. You know, you're there, yes your
work so yes, you might be at a trainee level
of apprenticeship and you might feel like you bottom of
the food chain. And that's where I started my training
ships on the shop floor, brush and dust uf in
the funeral. So we actually try to give them the
(07:18):
vision that hey, you're going to start here, but you
are going to go up. And the other thing we
tell him is is the blow ask you to do something.
He's not being racist, he's trying to talk down to you.
I pay him to teach you or you know, to
tell you what to do. So we really try to
get them out of that mold of hey, you know,
people are trying to talk down to me or something
like that. So when he prepped them, we got a
(07:40):
really good mentor program and we got some really good
people that believe in what we believe.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
That's fantastic and it's so important like that trajectory, that
pathway and mentorship as well. So he said a big
part of your life as a lawyer this he said,
this is your third business. Well, what's the legacy piece,
like what's the future hold?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, look, I think our ra is the legacy question.
You know, I think last year there was an article
done about us. We were the first guys that started
that LARI and the average lawyers in New South Wales.
So Me, Tony mckaway, Damian Bars, Terry Jakie System, Robin
Quinghan shout out to the mob and you know the
corries out there that we grew up with insyny and
so we started the average lawyers with it back then
(08:24):
and now you see some of those people that are
become judges and advocates and you know, it's just a
proud feeling that hey, we were back here, you know,
twenty five years ago, kicking the streets of George Street
and Sydney and I being a radical. Now we all
sort of progressed in life and matured and done things,
and I think that's that makes you feel good. The
(08:44):
world is a beautiful place. I refuse to think that
it's legating or bad. So that's what you know, the values,
the legacy you're talking about, twenty five is in the
making and it still goes on. There's TV continued.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Definitely, definitely. So if you had any kind of final
words or a final message for my order, what would
it be.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, Look, I think you've got to believe in yourself.
And the whole country is spiritual special, Like you're in
a very special place in the world, and I think
you got to believe in yourself, believe in the DNA
that is kne key to this country. I believe in that. Yes,
we've all had struggles and challenges, and bad shit happens
to good people all the time, you know, and but
(09:28):
we have to sort of figure out a way to
move on in a sense, but also not forget, you know.
And I think that's the balance is I'm not going
to forget what happened to my grandfather with Lady Welfare
trying to chase him halfway across the country, you know.
And so that's the challenges. We've got a history of
stolen generation trying to take the kids away, and then
(09:49):
you've got you know, real life, you know, great answer
to great uncles that were put in missions and persecuted
and had a dog license. Could it get into town?
And so I don't I think the rest of Australia,
he said to say, like this is pretty fresh. You know,
there was massacres in this country. There's a whole bunch
of bad stuff that's happened. But let's not forget it.
(10:10):
Let's respectfully deal with it like we do with other
you know, other warriors and soldiers and sisters and brothers.
But get up and do so.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Man.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You can't can't sit back and be the victim and play,
you know, get your shit together.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, definitely pretty powerful message there, and I think you
know that sort of one eye looking back to remember
the past, but always continuing to look forward. I love
what you said there, particularly around it starts with self
belief but also that deep connection to the DNA of
this country.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. Look, I think it doesn't and for ours. It's
we've got to capitalize on it. We're going to build
on it. You know, we believe in getting people in
with the right attitude and aptitude from a high school
dropout and I never went through the straight path. So
that's why we say to everybody that comes into our
business that, hey, you won't be here today, brang seventy
you wait twenty eight. I don't let this stuff get
(11:07):
to you. Even some of the Buzzs sisters that have
had a bit of hard time with their life and
obviously look on who the fuck about to judge you
know what that was?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
You?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
You dealt with it, but you're here. You want to
make a difference. We'll work with you, and I will
work with you, but you got to put it in
and our boto whey is you got to You've got
to back yourself. If you don't, Unfortunately, we're in a
pretty complicated game. Safety is number one. You've got to
look after yourself and your mates, and you know that's
mental well being as well as physical well being. And
we've really pretty lucky Touchwood, we've every pretty last. Yeah. Look,
(11:39):
the messages is back yourself. A lot of people will
support you, a lot of Young Bob. I don't forget
that they've got so much support, like just unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Back yourself such a powerful message. So thanks so much
for coming on my show today. I really appreciate it.
As Chas just said, back yourself. So there you have it.
I hope you've enjoyed the latest episode of Meet the Mob.
Until next time, thanks for listening to today's episode. If
you love it, please share it on your socials. With
(12:09):
your mob, let's help amplify as many Indigenous businesses as
possible and get everyone supporting each other.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Thank you.
Podcast Unite our voices. We respectfully acknowledge the watchap new
Yon people as the traditional owners of the land in
which the Mob has created.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hi, I'm Crystal Kinsella. I'm a proud Jarwin and Brad
Drew woman, a supply diversity expert and published author. Welcome
to Meet the Mob, a series dedicated to showcasing Black
excellence in business. I get to interview deadly first Nation
business owners from around the country and learn about their wife.
Today I'm joined by Shasrind from Arrah. We'll share with
(00:48):
us his wife, why got into business and he does
what he does. So let's kick it off. Who are you?
Who's your mob?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Look? Personally welcome to wa. This is Waja country. But
were abergees buttermire from uplaws Merstal scenario mother size, that
ritual Dad's side isn't the Ballushi's they coming with the
cavels night in the sixties And I've been pretty blessed
lucky to sort of grow up on lots of country.
I've been a native title lawyer for many years, so
I've literally seen the whole country. You know, some really sacred,
(01:17):
sacred important places. So the whole place for me is home.
It's all special. You're not even the streets here special.
But now based out of person in the last probably
twelve years.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Great, Well, let's start with a really easy one. You know,
what is your wife like?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
What what drives you? What's getting you out of bed
every day?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah? Look, that's a really good question, Crystal. And to
be honest with you, says, I think it's based on
I'm pretty blessed in life. I've been lucky enough to
have good people black white. Can I agree that men
told me and supported me and I started ERA because
you know, we wanted to do something that was different.
We wanted to do something that was genuine and give
(01:57):
our young people a chance to work, to train up,
you know, to go and try to aim really high.
So we work in all gas of body and you know,
that's what we wanted the next generation of the aberginal
workforce to look at. How can I get sklled up
in the all a gas of boding space. And now
we're taking up the relieable energy space. So saying, well,
what are the opportunities you know, for our bob in
(02:18):
this new let's say industry that's been created with clean
energy and so that's what we're trying to do. Like
you know, we keep it homeble, we do keep a
low profile.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well there's no low profiles. We'd meet them mob because
we're going to put your face all over YouTube.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
All right, that'll be fun. Yeah yeah, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So creating some pathways around oil, minding gas, but now
in this renewable energy space. Yeah, so talk to us
about some of the things that AURA does.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah. Look, our's got three parts of the business. We've
got sort of the the let's say the talent side
of it, where we got people that work for us
and projects and all the gas and boding. And then
we run our own contracts, so we contract to DUBLE Defense.
You know, we want a handful of average companies that
contract directly the defense. And then we also got a
group training organization. So that's like the talent pipeline. So
(03:07):
the group training organization basically is it's like an RTO,
but we call it a GTO. We get people in
the produces trainees, and we give young people a chance.
Even some brothers and sisters out of jail don't want
to change their life, and so we My vested interest
is I get to look at the talent here that
we test about our projects and if they do really well,
(03:28):
while there's a there's a Carrocter, you get your trade
ship or your trade you're going to get the big dollars.
You're going to go and work for the big boys
and the big bleacher company. So that's how we do it.
It's I've been to Dawn. This a third company that
I've built. Sarah's my baby. I had most of it.
That's so responsible for it. How's arabing around for us seven?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Is? Wow, that's pretty He's a defense you know, like
so working for Defense. I've done some work with them
and some of the Defense primes before. It's it's hard
yack kind of to meet requirements and yeah, to get
any track record there.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Look, it is a little thing. A lot of people
said that it's too hard, it's too difficult, and I
think the challenge for all of us as individuals and
some of the young people, Well, if it's too hard,
it's too difficult, how to get around that? And I thought, well,
I'm going to try and crack it. Look, we cracked
Defense in three months. We had a contract direct because
we had all the white we were already a mainstream contractor.
(04:27):
So I don't think there's a bucket of Aberiginal companies
here and long aberiginal companies here. We're a main stream
Australian company that happens to the majority average alone. We
can work wherever the funk I want to work. Sorry,
all right, Well that's good. I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I love that because you know, I guess one of
the things is is that sometimes you know, you could
be you can be tainted by saying that you're an
indigenous company put in a bucket over here in Pigeonhole.
But I like that kind of that mantriance saying, you know,
we are mainstream company just happen to be majority owned
(05:08):
and you're breaking down the doors and creating pathplays.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Look, we're trying to do the right thing and doing
the right thing. You know, you've got to be general
about it. You're going to have a passion. And I
think we see all this reconciliation actually plans and abrgual
procurement and all these kinds of things. Well, we you know,
we look at that, so how much is that really
making a difference. We actually got control, so we can
(05:31):
decide on how much you know, we want the average
workforce to be how much talent do we want to
bring in? You know, how do we target you know,
people for our business. You know, some young sisters this week,
women in a lot of traditional trades. So we got
two abigual girls that started at sidback you know as
border backer World is. Yeah, a couple couple of girls
(05:51):
and the ones got yamage connections, so they started, you
know in a lot of traditional trade building. Funnily enough
over there, I can't talk too much about it, but
they're going to be building some pretty high and stuff
for defense. These young girls learning how to be bought
and making worlds.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It's a great will. There will be a great story
as it progresses. Look, yeah, particularly in those those types
of trades which are pretty heavily male dominated.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But exactly so, you actually our I think, you know,
we're trying to use our platform. You know, we're blessed
and you know, and I think we're trying to use
our platform to get more AVERA. Sure people have different
job choices, you know, and we say to people, look, brother,
you here or yeah, you know we're not we're not
certainly we're a commercial outfit. These are the obligations, These
(06:35):
are the responsibilities, These are things that will teach you.
And our business safety is number one, as you know,
you know in the order gas somebody, You're going to
look after yourself, look after your base, look after the
people around you, you know. And we do put some
pretty third policies in like we tell them like we
won't put up with sexes of racism, discrimination, you know,
all these things that we entrench in them to empower them.
(06:56):
So when they're in the workforce, they know that my employer,
my boss and why person will back me up. That's
what we teach them. You know, you're there, yes your
work so yes, you might be at a trainee level
of apprenticeship and you might feel like you bottom of
the food chain. And that's where I started my training
ships on the shop floor, brush and dust uf in
the funeral. So we actually try to give them the
(07:18):
vision that hey, you're going to start here, but you
are going to go up. And the other thing we
tell him is is the blow ask you to do something.
He's not being racist, he's trying to talk down to you.
I pay him to teach you or you know, to
tell you what to do. So we really try to
get them out of that mold of hey, you know,
people are trying to talk down to me or something
like that. So when he prepped them, we got a
(07:40):
really good mentor program and we got some really good
people that believe in what we believe.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
That's fantastic and it's so important like that trajectory, that
pathway and mentorship as well. So he said a big
part of your life as a lawyer this he said,
this is your third business. Well, what's the legacy piece,
like what's the future hold?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, look, I think our ra is the legacy question.
You know, I think last year there was an article
done about us. We were the first guys that started
that LARI and the average lawyers in New South Wales.
So Me, Tony mckaway, Damian Bars, Terry Jakie System, Robin
Quinghan shout out to the mob and you know the
corries out there that we grew up with insyny and
so we started the average lawyers with it back then
(08:24):
and now you see some of those people that are
become judges and advocates and you know, it's just a
proud feeling that hey, we were back here, you know,
twenty five years ago, kicking the streets of George Street
and Sydney and I being a radical. Now we all
sort of progressed in life and matured and done things,
and I think that's that makes you feel good. The
(08:44):
world is a beautiful place. I refuse to think that
it's legating or bad. So that's what you know, the values,
the legacy you're talking about, twenty five is in the
making and it still goes on. There's TV continued.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Definitely, definitely. So if you had any kind of final
words or a final message for my order, what would
it be.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, Look, I think you've got to believe in yourself.
And the whole country is spiritual special, Like you're in
a very special place in the world, and I think
you got to believe in yourself, believe in the DNA
that is kne key to this country. I believe in that. Yes,
we've all had struggles and challenges, and bad shit happens
to good people all the time, you know, and but
(09:28):
we have to sort of figure out a way to
move on in a sense, but also not forget, you know.
And I think that's the balance is I'm not going
to forget what happened to my grandfather with Lady Welfare
trying to chase him halfway across the country, you know.
And so that's the challenges. We've got a history of
stolen generation trying to take the kids away, and then
(09:49):
you've got you know, real life, you know, great answer
to great uncles that were put in missions and persecuted
and had a dog license. Could it get into town?
And so I don't I think the rest of Australia,
he said to say, like this is pretty fresh. You know,
there was massacres in this country. There's a whole bunch
of bad stuff that's happened. But let's not forget it.
(10:10):
Let's respectfully deal with it like we do with other
you know, other warriors and soldiers and sisters and brothers.
But get up and do so.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Man.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You can't can't sit back and be the victim and play,
you know, get your shit together.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, definitely pretty powerful message there, and I think you
know that sort of one eye looking back to remember
the past, but always continuing to look forward. I love
what you said there, particularly around it starts with self
belief but also that deep connection to the DNA of
this country.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. Look, I think it doesn't and for ours. It's
we've got to capitalize on it. We're going to build
on it. You know, we believe in getting people in
with the right attitude and aptitude from a high school
dropout and I never went through the straight path. So
that's why we say to everybody that comes into our
business that, hey, you won't be here today, brang seventy
you wait twenty eight. I don't let this stuff get
(11:07):
to you. Even some of the Buzzs sisters that have
had a bit of hard time with their life and
obviously look on who the fuck about to judge you
know what that was?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
You?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
You dealt with it, but you're here. You want to
make a difference. We'll work with you, and I will
work with you, but you got to put it in
and our boto whey is you got to You've got
to back yourself. If you don't, Unfortunately, we're in a
pretty complicated game. Safety is number one. You've got to
look after yourself and your mates, and you know that's
mental well being as well as physical well being. And
we've really pretty lucky Touchwood, we've every pretty last. Yeah. Look,
(11:39):
the messages is back yourself. A lot of people will
support you, a lot of Young Bob. I don't forget
that they've got so much support, like just unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Back yourself such a powerful message. So thanks so much
for coming on my show today. I really appreciate it.
As Chas just said, back yourself. So there you have it.
I hope you've enjoyed the latest episode of Meet the Mob.
Until next time, thanks for listening to today's episode. If
you love it, please share it on your socials. With
(12:09):
your mob, let's help amplify as many Indigenous businesses as
possible and get everyone supporting each other.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Thank you.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.