November 26, 2025 • 45 mins
This week Sammy and G are joined by Jackson Baily to tell us all about the Shark Arm Murder. It's as wild as it sounds.
Story starts at 11:15.
*no video this week, sadly.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey there, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to not Another crime podcast. I'm Georgia Love, I'm
Sammy Peterson, I am a journalist. I am not but
today we are joined by wonderful podcast Extraordinary Air from
Sans Pants from Plumbing the Desk that it is the
great Jackson Bailey.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Welcome, thank you. Oh I got extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You're also wearing headphones today, which is I'll tell you
g Love right now.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I am shocked Jackson's I've never seening wear headphones before.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, that's true. Am I nailing it?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Really well? Yeah, your hair is sitting beautifully.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm so glad about it. You're not a crazy thing
about my hair. I would like to ac Okay, so
this is insane. But when I was younger, not that
much younger, like in my twenties, Yeah, I had straight hair.
And then one day I I wished that I could
have curly hair too, just in general.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, that's not a wish man, you can pay for that.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
And then but then, like in like a couple of
days or maybe all week, my hair became curly's.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
I don't appreciate you coming into our place, our podcast
and lined to us.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Within the first minute.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You find it mean if you find a photo, can
actually show us.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
They have to Google, We have to find you find
the photo.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Well, God to your parents.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Hey, we're just looking for photos of your child in
there like mid Glory.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
We're cool.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Two days before he was curly. You can show me
the last photo. Take you don't worry.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We're really interested in crime for his big wish.
Speaker 6 (01:29):
If you can, we have.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
A crime podcast. Can we see a photo of your child?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
No younger, younger younger?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Unfortunately I can only find photos of me with very
short hair. But I promise that I want to trust.
And then I wished. I just the only time I've ever.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Eat a story, people say fairy tale.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
People say, you know, you put energy out into the universe.
Matter of fact, the only time I've ever done it
was for curly hair.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Stopped there, used on Yeah exactly with I thought of
a sketch idea of the other I was telling you
about it, where it's a person who has one wish
a year, and it's like they're so and they have
one wish a year, and every single time he looks
at his girlfriend for and he always wishes for a kiss,
(02:15):
and it's like very sweet, but she's pierced of not
today's trying to be romanic.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
And you're wasting it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You're wasting and the sketch just heaps of people standing
in front of him, excited, and as soon as he
makes the wish, they all just walk.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
You could wish for.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So come on tell us about it, because I didn't
call your podcast to first tell us about Sandspance and
then why you hate headphones?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Okay, well so.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
As well?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I also Sandspance Radio is
a podcast network that I'm a part of that started
about thirteen years ago and Latrobe University where we discovered
that they had this like professional studio no one was using.
It was largely abandoned, and we were like, well, let's
kind of someone living sneak our way in and pretty
(03:05):
that guy have straight hair.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Remember that's why your identity.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And then I mean eventually they kicked us out of it,
but that's it's kind of where it starts. Yeah, sure,
And from that initial you know, a couple of podcasts
we spun off Plumbing the Death Style based of Speculation,
Thumb Crig just too many, too many podcasts we lament
it every.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Day, Plumbing the Death Start and dumb Cramps, so kind
of your main.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yes, yeah, well we kind of have two branches in
a weird way. We have the sort of plumbing the
death Star side of things, which is me, Joel Sat
and Joel. Do we get two Joels? Which is pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
That's actually I think allisoners know. I'm really bad with numbers,
but I think that's two more goals than we haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's rights't what my dog's name is, but.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I always think that that's really what we should. It's
like the cornerstone of our success and we don't use
it enough in marketing.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And I think we deal deal Joel. We can work
with that something there.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
But yeah, so that's kind of where it started. But
so we have the sort of Joel's side of thing,
and then we also have like a role playing side
of thing where we do Joel playing.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
There you got that market Oh my god, doing a
bit of Joel playing right now.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
We have a podcast called D and D is for Nerds,
which is like a D and D sort of podcast,
and then we could be on the Map, which is
like a horror role playing thing. So again, too many
podcasts that we do, and the reason we had heard phones.
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
We used to use them.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Oh really, and then at one point.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
You just wish that they didn't have to In two
days time, they never use.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We're going to have Joel on soon, one of the Joels.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah, yeah, and I will bring it up with yeah,
please do please do.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Just accuse him of not wearing everything.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
He'll probably have a better explanation.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, it's so funny because you know Maso, and anytime
I've done a podcast with Maso before, he always just goes,
I don't want them every time.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I don't want them to know.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
From me as someone who has self described too many podcasts,
which is your favorite?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Oh great question. It depends on the day. So sometimes
if I'm doing too much D and D, I'm like,
I'm sick of this.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, because podcasts can go for a Loh.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, you're in there for like eight hours pretending to
be a wizard or oh okay.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I was like I know what I didn't until you Yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
Yeah, it's largely pretending to be a wizard.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, largely by and large what it is. And then,
because I don't know, we did this stupid thing where
we were like let's make these like in depth long campaigns,
these big adventures. Then you lock yourself into.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You Oh, I'm so embarrassed.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
You got to sneeze.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
That's live, that's live.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Put headphones on. It was so loud.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
It's funny that we do use headphones because the amount
of times when like you know, if you've got headphones on,
you can of the audio is bad. Yes, we don't
know the point.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
We don't know until afterwards, after you've recorded.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
For often we don't know until our deal listeners go, hey,
this episode went on.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That was a complete silence.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Wow, that's amazing. Well, our episodes, none of them have
been eight hours. Yes, yet however you have come along today,
Yeah with you're look, you're bringing the energy, you bring
the story.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, you're bringing the got no plans, famously.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Nothing after this.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
So let's see what happens.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You've brought a story.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I brought a story. I brought one of my favorite crimes.
Oh wow, I would.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Say, you are your crime person. You criminals crime person.
We got him sting operation, just the biggest Why that
microphone in front of you face a microphone, it's a WHI.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, I like true crime but I think I go
through like sort of phases of loving it being like.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I gotta stop it too much, But I also.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Love like non murder true craw.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Just always scams and frauds, and they can be so fascinating.
I have been like, last night you went out and
had drinks with a friend and you had a lovely time.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I that sounds.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I watched two documentaries on Eileen Warner's.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Then I read about her for hours and it was
really late at night when I texted you she had
a good night?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
You said, have you had a good night? Was like
not really. It was a deep dive and I was like.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Oh no, but like you can go down that rabbit
hole so far you start and the things about Wikipedia
dot com not plug. But when I was like clicking
on different links and everything and then going to an article,
who's that person? I start looking in and oh god,
you go down so quickly.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
I know.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
There's been like many times where I've been like, oh,
I've just listened to like five hours of YouTube documentary
about like Jeffrey Epstein. Stop, let's take a little break.
But I also, I guess this isn't really true crime.
But I love like lost media and stuff as well,
where it's like, oh, and like the weird thing about
lost media is it never has to be like anything
(08:21):
dark or scary. It can be like, hey, these episodes
of SpongeBob, Nobody's yeah, somehow it's really interesting to like
learn about. Or a favorite one of mine was on
I think it was the lost media subreddit. Somebody posted
this photo. It was like a sticker of like a
kind of goblin looking guy, and they were like, what,
who is this? What's this from?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I think it's It had like a title up above
that was like not this but something like Glibbert, and
they were like, who's glued?
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah yeah, and then they'll gets spun off into like
a whole subreddit of people are trying to track down
and use clues and like emailing people to just try
and find out.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
It's great because it's like kind of like pepe As well.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, I'd love to do pepe as the story, but
pep from four.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Cham Yeah, because a story for the crime.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No No.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I was like those thoughts of lost media and not
lost media, but it's a story that doesn't fit true crimes.
You go down those rabbit holes of like looking into
something like that's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
We do call it not another crime podcast because now
more int just things we find interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, interesting things.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Crime, Yeah, for sure. Another the other Joel, not Joe,
but the other Joel. Too many, there's too many. He
started to go down like that lost media sort of.
He started investigating to try and find some lost media
about the Remember the old TV show Who Dares Wins?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes, yeah, so with Mikey with exactly and.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah, exactly great, so funny to watch again and.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Interviewed her for something years and years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was so bizarre, was obsessed with there's whims and
he was like, you starts druck. That's only two people
I've ever seen Dave starstruck about ten years later and Lista.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Mckinn Yeah, Dave, wa here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
That's one of the segments.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I know, I listened to.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's really funny watching Hoodas Wins again because it's such
like a low fire TV show where it's like Mike
Whitney going into a supermarket and being like, hey, you
want to pull strip off in game and put your
hand in this tank of crabs and then they do it, Yeah,
and he just pulls the fifty just pulls the fifty
bucks out of his like coach like. It's so because
(10:38):
he was.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
A cricketer, wasn't he was at in the day. And
then for some reason I think that's true. And then
for some reason he became the host of Who Dares Wins?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
And it was so much today.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I remember an episode where it was he went up
to a couple and he goes, why don't you to
strip off in this sleeping bag in this supermarket in
the shopping center? Why is he ate always in a
shopping and that's so crazy? Clothes as a gag. Oh my,
that's that's his human.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
That's yeah, exactly, a funny guy.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Funny guy.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well, the crime that I want to sorry, hey, two.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
People found in a sleep.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
The Sydney shark arm murder case. Do you know about this?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You messaged me about it last night and I made
a I did not look anything at all.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I'd never heard of this before.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
This is like it's a classic piece of I don't
know what you call Sydney folkloro or whatever. It's like
the kind of thing that I remember first hearing about
when I was like very little and there was like
a documentary my parents were watching, you know, like you
have those like vague where you're like.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It's just for some reason, there's a memory tucked in.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
There, absolutely, and this was was one of them. The
thing that I always remember is the photograph, the black
and white photograph of the arm in question, and the
very notable tattoo that is that is on it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Okay, So in zach Day nineteen thirty five, there is
a an indoor pool in Sydney owned by a man
named quite exactly Charlie Hobson. Charlie, Charlie Hobson's indoor pool is.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Not doing so hot.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay, he's kind of losing money on it.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Your pool, I'm hemming.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I'll give you fifty bucks my pool.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It doesn't seem like a pool is a guaranteed money maker.
Everybody always needs to go in the pool, but this
one it's not. But it's not doing well. The pool's
in trouble. But thankfully, just a couple of days ago,
some some guys out in the bay captured a one
ton tiger shark. Okay, and Charlie Hobson g says, get
(12:48):
it in the pool, because if we put it in
the indoor pool. People are going to.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Put a shark in an indoor yeah, shark, and the
people will come.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
That's why.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
That's where that famous saying came from.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, it was a lie, so it was a living shark.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Weirder if they.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's awesome, this sho Arguably the fact I actually think
fewer people would come to see.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
The I just wanting to fool. It's indoor fool.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, in nineteen thirty five.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Get like, I'm picturing like a twenty five meter indoor pool, not.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Like someone's pool in their home that is indoor, like
a swimming center.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, it's kind of the vibe like like a leisure
center sort of situation.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Enough.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, so then it's a shark.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Isn't twenty meters long? Dead? But I'm learning it. Is
it alive or dead? It's alive? No than my money elsewhere?
Like to do something?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, to look at his dead shot?
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Yeah fifty doing it?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Not worth.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
One question? DLA.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So Anzact Day, a couple of days after the shark
is put in the pool. Inzact Day, rolls around and
the shark is the sharks, but the shark's looking queasy. Okay,
it's slowing down.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Yeah, it's kind of what you may.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
And it's it makes it the sharks sort of slowly
moving around. It's it's it's sort of container, it's tank,
and it's not looking well. And then suddenly it throws
it in the slow lane.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
It's some really angry man on his lunch break trying
to stay in your light.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
It throws out, it throws up, and it throws up.
And so this is a bit that in my research
was really hard to find out the specifics of. So
I know it throws up a rat, a bird, and
a human arm, but it also possibly throws up and
this seems crazy and I couldn't verify this anywhere.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
The rest of the story is fine and normal.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
So this is the only crazy bit. It throws up
a smaller shark, which then was up.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
So I am recognizing this story, and that is I recognize.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
That, but I couldn't have tried it anywhere, like the yeah, the.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Surprise little one in the middle.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah, yeah, because the story alleged in some places, the
alleged that the smaller shark.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
You don't need to say, alleged that the shark is
not going to see you dead.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I just want to be safe, Okay, I just want
to I don't know if the sharks have stayed or
it's it's surviving family. But I don't have to go
to court in the sea, you know, I'm I'm just
protecting myself. Yeah, is that the smaller shark is what
ate the hand and then the bigger shark ate the
smaller shark. But I think the idea of that, like
(15:47):
the I can't believe that, but anyway, that's that's that's
what in some places alleged the law. So people like, obviously,
this is crazy. There's a seven arm. This is the
craziest hands act they've ever had a my life. I'm
looking at it.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Just one.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
It came around and see Charlie's bull. I'm just like,
I'm a little bit hungover. I'm not sure all of
this is actually happening.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
More hungover than I thought.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Is the shark. I'm in the room with us right now.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So they're like, well, this is I mean, obviously something's
going on here. They get the arm out, and then
they noticed something that makes it even stranger. Obviously, you
see a seven arm pop out of a shark, you
think the sharks bitter guy's armor. That's what we all. Yeah,
did somebody fall in earlier today, I don't know, look
around for a guy with one arm looking in the tank.
(16:50):
But instead of it being bitten off, it's been cut off.
And so they go, well, interesting, Okay, the shark didn't
bite this armor. Yeah, the shark just ate a loose arm.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, yeah, So it becomes a murder investigation, or at
least close to, because they go, well, somebody either and
this is also weirdly relevant, either somebody is dead and
the shark, or somebody was chopped up and the shark
ate a bit of their body, or somebody has just
lost an arm at sea and yeah, they've survived, you know,
(17:24):
an attack or whatever, and the shark ate their loose.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's what I was thinking that that would be more
like that would be the thing. It's like someone swimming
a shark ate someone. But that's while that it was
cut off.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Yeah, I'm thinking it was like a gang land. I
think I suspect like a gang land like someone said
their arm chopped off as a punishment, and then they
fed it to the shark for sure, which should be
easy to find whose whose.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
Arm belongs to?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah? Absolutely, because they'll be walking around.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Yeah. Gang, Yeah, the underwelled man with one giveaway.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
No, not me. Don't recognize them, but they're gone.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
She kept the shock in the pool. Everyone's talking about that.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
So the arm has a distinctive tattoo on and this
helps them identify this along with fingerprints, allegedly helps them.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Allegedly very good of the worst days of all time.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Suspects shop.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Is that it's got a distinctive tattoo, which is two
boxes fighting. And with this information, the deceased's brother identifies
who it was, a man named Jim Smith. Now Jim
Smith was a boxer and then on the World Criminals. Yeah,
well done on the money.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
You got fifty dollars from Mike.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Coming get to your a supermarket, sold this crime and
I'll give you a fifty bucks.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You put in a shopping center.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Mike, I'm pretty sure there's a five hundred thousand dollars
reward being offered by police. Fifty bucks right now, fifty
bucks cash.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
So Jim Smith started sort of like tracing what happened
to him and talking to people that knew him and
trying to figure out the last moments of his life
and the last place that he was seen by anybody
was with a man named Patrick Brady, who was another criminal.
He was a forger, and they were in a pub together,
and then allegedly after the pub, they were renting a
cottage together, gone No Matter Bay.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, they were just good friends.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh that's what I'm here, That's what I'm thinking. So
they were, Yeah, they were at the pub, you know,
having a good time, and then they both left to
go to their cottage that they owned. And then I
love this story so much. Then Brady, Patrick Brady, the
master forger, he turns up at a man named Reginald
Lloyd holmes estate. Now Reginald Lloyd Holmes was like a
like a like a very wealthy. He had a big mansion.
(19:49):
He was like a pillar of his local church. He
was like much beloved. I think he was involved in
local politics. But he was also a boat builder and
he was using the speedboats that he built to smuggle
cocaine into city, me from all the ships that would
be out in the bay.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So he arrives at Holmes's house. We don't really know
what happens there. And then so he arrives at Homes's
house and that's the last we kind of know of
the operations of these two men. People come suspicious, obviously
something's going on. Did Brady kill him?
Speaker 6 (20:20):
Like what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And there's also some sort of discussion that people know
in the underworld that Holmes and Smith had worked together,
but they'd had a falling out as of recent because
of an insurance scam that had gone wrong. So they go, well,
maybe Holmes and Brady or something they kind of got
together to kill Smith and you know, dump his body.
(20:43):
The police bringing Brady and Homes but they can't they
can't get anything both of them, you know, they keep
their lips sealed. Clearly, this is the Sydney Underworld is
a close knit community. You don't want to squild of
the police. Yeah, exactly, hanging out in the cottages is
really hard to get the use.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Of the word cottage's boxing cocaine boats.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah yeah. So the police, you know, they take them
into questioning, but they don't get anything out of them,
and they go, well, we don't have much, you know,
there's like speculation we're going to prove. Then Holmes does
something very bizarre, so he gets in one of his
speedboats and he flees out into the bay with a
gun and the police are like, well, he's running away,
(21:25):
clearly he's a dangerous.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Oh my god, he was armed.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Exactly, and he's zooming around the bay and the police
are chasing him. Then he brings and this is again
a completely unbelievable part of this story, but allegedly it's true.
He pulls the gun out to kill himself. He puts
the gun to his for his forehead, shoots, but the
bullets are of such an inferior quality that they bounce
off his skull instead of killing him. It stuns him.
(21:56):
He falls into the water out of his boat. The police,
obviously from their perspective and their police boats go, he's
killed himself.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
He sh he's falling the water.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
He then, after like a minute or thirty seconds, gets
out of the water, gets back into his boat, and
leads the police on a four hour chase around the bay.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
After just a little, like just a little.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
You know, gans is back from shooting himself in the air.
What I think, that's crazy. I think it's I think
that's crazy to me, to me, that's I know what
you think, Yeah, it's something to do with like the
quality of the bullets. They were like like a nickel
based on.
Speaker 6 (22:35):
So, I don't know the specifics I'm not I'm not
a gun.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Guy, but not a big gun guy.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I don't know what kind of gun you can shoot
yourself in the head and it'll be fine.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And the water, yeah, exactly cottage part of this underground well, but.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, I also think it must be crazy from his
perspective where he shoots himself and he's like, this is it.
I'm indicating this crime. I'm going to take my own life,
shoots himself in the head, falls in the water, and
then he's like, well that it didn't take out he wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Like in the back of his mind the voice of
like a teacher from when he was at schoolgirling, you
can't do anything right, exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Fucked up again.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, so yeah, so he falls in the water that
he's kind of led in this police chase and they
capture him again and they start to question it because
they go, you some what's going on here?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Body?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Allegedly he says, and this is keep saying, agend journalist.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
When we talk about the shot.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
When he's captured, he says, uh, Smith's gone and like
either he says Brady's next or he's next, And it's
unclear whether he's saying I killed Smith and now I'm
going to kill Brady, or whether he's like, Brady killed
Smith and now Brady's after me exactly. So it's very uncle.
I mean, look, things that happened later make it seem
like probably it's the latterer, but still so this is
(24:08):
what Holmes claims when he's brought in for questioning, and
the police are like, buddy, come on, an innocent man
doesn't drive around the bay in a speedboat and shoot
themselves in their head.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, regular thing.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
So Holmes claims that Brady arrived at his house with
only the arm of Smith, and that he used the
arm to threaten Holmes into giving him five hundred pounds,
so he like waggled it at it. It was like,
look what I did to this guy, I'll do it
to you unless you give me five hundred pounds. Oh god,
which would have been scary. Where's the rest of the body, man, Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Why just the arms? Like, if anything, you could argue
the arm is the least.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Like picturing, like, like you know, it's quite a happy.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I'm imagining like the basin flopping around like a Muppets
arm And then and I think this is funny as well.
Allegedly Smith no not Smith, Brady leaves the arm at
Holmes this place.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
When he leaves, can you keep that I've done what
I needed with this?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
And then Holmes dumps it in the bay because he's like,
I don't want to have an arm on my property. Yeah,
it's so funny.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
That's why maybe that was a bit of a threat,
kind of like, yeah, watch out because you know the
police come to your house and you've got a seven army.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yeah, exactly, looking can we just look at this?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It just started cuddling into about the shark again.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Love shark wick dogs would love yeahs in particular, I think.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
A big take him to the pool and see if
you can find one.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
That's a great idea if you have seen I saw
a video once of a dog and a seal looking
at each other and you could tell that on some
level they were like you like the water, it looks like, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
He's got When he's I think when you have come
to his arms probably and they're like tapped under, he
looks like it looks like.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I'm so sorry, we digress.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
We digress. So I think it's funny to imagine because
this I think what Holmes is kind of implying that
when Brady left, he just forgot the arm, like himself down,
like what did I do with people? And you you
really can't when you threaten someone with a seven arm,
you can't knock on the door and be like, can
(26:37):
I threaten else? That's just wo Yeah, I don't know
if you realize. So Holmes is like, well, I'll testify
against him in court. I'll say this happened to me.
We can arrest him. The next day, Holmes is found
shot three times point blank in the chest in a
car on a street somewhere Inie. Wow, this is another
(26:58):
piece of the story that I cannot find. I've found
some places to go. Some theorize that X and I've
never found who's theorizing this, But some people say that
the one of the theories is that Holmes hired a
hit man to as a kind of bizarre suicide, to
shoot himself in the chest four times.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
They might have better bullets.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Exactly, it would have. Yeah, I don't know. That seems
insane to me. I don't know why that's something people
are theorizing. I don't I sort of don't believe.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
I don't know all the comings and goings of the underworld,
but maybe that there's something in that, like I don't know,
So you could set someone else.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
For it, yeah, yeah, true, true, true. You could be like,
well I didn't you know, I didn't take myself out.
It was a hit man.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
And then it's just kind of a bit of a
funny thing to do someone someone like from the grived,
you know.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
It is like leaving a note.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
I was actually that a friend I went out with
for dinner last night, Saming was really happy about for me.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I don't know how why we were talking about this.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
If you are in a plane crash, like if you
think the plane you're in is going to go down, Yeah,
they say to write a note like in your notes app, and.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Like screenshot that and put it as the background of
your phone. If there's no like reception.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
People can find it.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah, if you've got.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
A message for someone, like you know, tell Mama love
her or something like that. And I was like, oh
my god, that is so it could be so funny,
Like if that was if I was going down in
a plane. I would do that, but I wouldn't be like,
you know, tell these people I love them, this is
what I want to do with my life.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
This will be my legacy. I would just write something
like Elizabeth knows the truth what happened on five? And
then Elizabeth is like, I don't know what she's talking
about her dying words. This is what you want us
to know.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
So Elizabeth, you'd be like, what do I.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
That's like, if there is an afterlife, that is great
entertaining for me out there. If not, still just funny exactly, Oh,
just funny to stitch up friend.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
That's like your grieving friends.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
They were missing you. Why would she do this to
what a cruel thing to do? I wish I could
remember who it is specifically, but there's some story about
somebody in like the eighteen hundred somewhere at a university,
I think, and he did a similar thing while he
was alive. He sent like four or five anonymous letters
to like people he knew at the university. I'm probably
(29:33):
getting the story very wrong, but something like this where
it was like they found us out, we need to flee,
and one guy disappeared. One guy went and they.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
Never saw him.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Wow, oh my god. So he did it as a job.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, he hit it as a He was like, this
is just like a funny frank, We'll see what happens.
And one guy was like, the know, I know, what
did he do? I don't know. I don't think that's
just like if they were friends. What a funny way
to lose a friend.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Exactly the book before about when I was beaned.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
When I was beaned, I was beaned possibly.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I was here, you don't don't bring this story to us,
and then look at me like something I've said is weird.
I was sitting at home, like a Saturday night, home alone,
and I heard like a knock at the door.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
And my door has.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
The doorbell, so it's like a loud.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
I'm doing pretty well, and it was like a loud.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Like angry knock at the door. So I was like, oh,
I'm not like, I'm not answering that. And then I
could kind of see the shadow of someone like moving away,
and then heard allowed like kind of like a bang,
not like a gunshop, but like something hitting the door,
and then heard people like scurrying away, and then heard
a car drive.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Off, and I was like, what has just what's going on?
Speaker 5 (30:51):
So I was like, I'm not going to the door now.
Left it about like maybe ten or fifteen minutes or something.
I can't hear any more noises. Open the door and
there was a can of baked beans that had been
pelted at my door, and they were baked beans all
over my doorsteps.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Do you know who did it?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Did?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
You have no idea, no idea, no idea why?
Speaker 5 (31:18):
But the reason I bring it up that because it
reminds me of that thing with the notes is I
was like, if I had a big secret, I would
think it was someone threatening me saying we're going.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
To spill the beans.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Of course, but.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I didn't have a secret. Beaned crazy, And isn't it.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
It's funny how much you can change someone's life with
something as simple as.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
If I was harboring a secret, I could have gone
into a full spin out someone knows they're going to
spill the beans.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
But even without a secret, you're left forever wondering why,
why would why was.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
It put beans on my house? Can't we place some.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Beans on quite nice?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Actually opened the door?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Would they have been to me?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I guess because they were knocking they wanted your attention,
they wanted to they got it.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
If you are the beaner listening to this, please.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
That another crime that we do.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
We have one again well rested without the you know
now the homes were dead. They were like, well we
can't that was our style witness. We've got nothing else
on Brady. We can't do anything, and in court Brady
got off.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
Basically he lucky Brady.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
In court, Brady's lawyer, I love this argument. And this
comes back to the thing I said very early on.
Brady's lawyer was like, you can't even call it murder
because we don't know. We don't have the body.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
All we have is the arm.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
So Smith might be walking around alive. He's just got.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
One, just a lopsided.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And the jury, I guess, like he's got a point. Yeah,
you can't prove beyond yeah, exactly, it's not it's not
and is not a body.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
I think is the specific it's a bit of wisdom,
you know.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
So basically that that's kind of where it ends, is
that Brady has gotten away, well maybe has gotten away
with it. We don't really The relationship between all these
three men are still very confused and we still don't
know the specifics, but an interesting thing did come out.
A little addendum came out later on in regards to Smith.
So it turned out Smith was what was at the
time known as, I think, and this is a crazy
word a fizz gig or a phizzle fiz gig being
(33:39):
a police informant. A fiz gig or a phizzle that's.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
What they called them in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I don't take it away people, ye, a bit of
a phys gig, but so some and he the person
that he was tattling on effectively was a man we
have fizzen on exactly fizzing up was a man named
Eddie Weyman, and Eddie Weyman was like the big boss
of the Sydney underworld at the time, or one of
the big bosses, and he'd had a failed bank robbery
(34:08):
that some people theorize is because Smith was basically telling
the police where he would be being a police informant.
So some people are like, well, look it could have
been Brady. I mean, that is suspicious. But also he
was like a basically a marked man because you know,
at the time, I mean, it's funny when you read
stuff like this, and they're like, in the nineteen thirties,
to be a police informant was no good. I think
(34:30):
it's probably still the case n about that. I don't
think we've eased up on that at any point. So
people like, well, if he was a marked man, probably
he was actually taken out by you know, assassins or
you know hitman. Assassins a bit many for the Sydney
underground in the nineteen thirties, but hitman working for you know,
(34:53):
the kind of big bosses for Eddie, for Big Eddie exactly. God,
that's really who talking about. And I think when you
think about that, like it kind of of the things
tying the other, you know, players in this, like like
Brady and Lloyd, they are kind of tenuous.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
It's like, well, I guess they were in a cottage together.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
I mean something was going on.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Obviously in love.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Obviously that's not a crime. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no,
to be fair in nine Yeah, so that's kind of
the Sydney Shark arm murder case. Something that starts with
something as simple as hom drum as a indoor pool
throwing up arm.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
That's just such a normal, boring story. It's the thing made.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Can you imagine for whether it was Eddie Brady or
whoever it was, or all of the people somehow involved
in the killing of the assumed killing of Jim Smith.
When they saw on the news that the arm we
threw one arm into Sydney Harbor.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Yeah, yeah, we threw a single lass.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
A little ingle shark was brought into an indoor pool,
Are you kidding? Me?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Kidding?
Speaker 3 (36:13):
You'd be like, sure, maybe a shark leader, but no,
one's gonna fine.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
And then that ends up in Charlie's pool on a
do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (36:20):
They were at the pool watching and being like pleased
shark in the pool.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
He started to look cueazy and like feeding him, like
you get him.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Some tom, get him around, and got just a shot
A small.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
Breathed very slowly between you, like you'll be okay, don't
throw up, don't.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Throw up please. I don't think we know what quite
what became. I mean probably you could find out, but
quite what became of the shark either, which I think
it's said he falls out of the story. So and
what became of the pool? Yes, well, no, the pool.
Actually do know is that the pool they tried to
make it like a like a heritage side, to be
like the indoor pool, Bozeman Indoor Pool. But I think
(37:01):
it didn't. It either didn't last or they ignored it
and they bulldozed it down, which I think is so sad.
I think you should be able to go to that
pool today and they're like, this is the pool right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, I wasn't sitting this week.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah you should you go take a photo.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
With the Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Whether was there any backstory behind the rat and the
bird that he also threw up?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
No?
Speaker 3 (37:23):
But I think of rats a very interesting thing for
a shark to have eaten, because I get if it's
a seagull, it lands on the water, the sharks there.
Speaker 6 (37:31):
How did that rat get in there?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
How?
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That's an insane story.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I think it's crazy, and I think it's such a
it's such a like a bizarre sequence of events, and
I love that it's still you kind of don't really have.
Speaker 6 (37:47):
A satisfying conclusion.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Was it that Lloyd killed him? Not, yeah, the Brady
killed him, sorry to blackmail Lloyd. But if Brady was
doing that to blackmail Lloyd, like, was Braidy his plan?
Because this is I guess what the story sort of
implies Brady's plan is kill my best friend and maybe
love a Lloyd. Yes, I mean Smith's dump his body somewhere,
(38:11):
chop off an arm to wave that, to take the
arm to Lloyd, wave the arm to get.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
It's just like you think he was a bit dumb.
And someone said, when you're going to threaten someone, make
sure your.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Aunt and he was like, and he was like he
was thinking about that at the pub, and then he
was like, you know, Smith's got.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
I think if I was an underworld like gangland figure
and I was going to chop off someone's arm and
or kill them and then use that arm as a
threatening tool, I would cut out the tattoo before dumping
the arm.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
That seems smart, yeah, yeah yeah, or sand it off.
They'll never find me, Elizabeth, But yeah, I think it's
it is that one of those things where you go
if you try and like when you're hearing the find
the sequence of events seems.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
To make sense, but if you.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Actually like, look, if you think about it, it doesn't
at all. Like, is that was that Brady's plan to
make five hundred pounds kill a man take the That's bizarre,
that's crazy and.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Just what are the odds that that? What are the odds?
It makes you think how many times?
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Make you think how many times something like that has
very nearly happened.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, if the shark hadn't thrown up, none of this
would have ever happened.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
That chlorine, Yeah, exactly, that is an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, Hugh Jackson, heydile all good.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I think as well if you were the two criminals,
if you were, say, if Brady did do it, you'd
be like, is there a shark? Because where the rest
of the body is presumably dumped in the bay as well, Yeah,
you'd be like, are they going to find more sharks?
Each one?
Speaker 6 (39:48):
Is a little bit of Smith in.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
The popping fingers down the throat of all the sharks.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Just to see where the bodies are. But yeah, I
think that's a great story. I think it's it's got
so many fun twists and turns. They should have made
a season of Underbelly.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
How haven't they made?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Like?
Speaker 4 (40:05):
But under almost too serious?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
It needs to be like a like a fargo, like
an Australian fargo.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
That would be absolutely.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Episode could be a great blue They go to the aquarium,
shark local shark in the.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Yeah, we're copyrighting and trademarking the Fargo esque film version
of these Who are we casting.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
In its great question? Well, I think Ben Mendelssohn movie
could be good for.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Somebody, and maybe Reese Muldoon.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Rob Carton will have to be in there for no reason, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
For no reason, just as a man in the background.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
I'm casting Bruce from Finding Nemo as the main sharks. Great,
and then the shark from Sharks Tail as the sharks.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Bruce Patty Newton's the voice.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
What does the shark said? Is the voice just like
throwing shouldn't shark?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So Rob Carlton is definitely Charles Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, he's the one with the
sharking pool. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Or John Howard the actor who was Bob Jelly.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
And John Howard the former Prime Minister play that's.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
A great question. The narrator. Narrator, let me tell you
the story about something that happened in Sydney.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
That's I'm so excited for this movie.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Guy.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
You know in Matilda where Danny DeVito.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Starts every story, Yeah, Danny.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
DeVito plays him like he plays the dad in it,
but he also is the narrator. Oh yeah, so weird.
It's maybe John Howard or.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
He didn't feel too good that day.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Maybe John Howard completely in that. But you can also
play Bozeman the pool and we can try and imply
that this was what John how It did before getting
into botle.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Is exactly a big career, exactly second worst antact day.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
That's you only have one, let me tell.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
You, and that's how our story starts today. Oh my god, Jackson,
that was amazing. Thank you, so.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
How do people find you? And all the sands Pants podcast?
Speaker 3 (42:31):
So you can find me if you go. I'm on
Twitter for some reason. Still you're working around I don't
know why I'm still there, but I am. I'm at
all dogs a dad. That's just that's the name I picked.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Don't listen, please comfortable.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
That's that's the name I chose for my Twitter handle
years and years and years ago. And as I entered
sort of like the podcasting scene, sam My boss was like, please,
for the love of God, change it to something seo friendly.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, yeah, never had.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
Now I'm going to do it even less because you've
told me to.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
And then I want to make this my handle.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
It it harder.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Well, I think when he was yelling at us about
that Cass who is also on the network, she got
a Twitter and made it at Jackson Bailey. So I
truly made it a nightmare for anybody trying.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
To find That's very funny.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Again, I think we're.
Speaker 5 (43:23):
All about of our friends to the energy we're bringing
into this recording.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
You can find me on Instagram at Ham's Forever. Sure. Yeah,
also not my name.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
I'm glad you because someone who just.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
And you can find all of the Sandspans Radio podcast
Sandspans Radio dot com, jump or just search it in
your podcast app of choice. You'll find this, Plumbing the
Death Star, Baseless Speculation, thomb cramp stand is for nerds,
and Beyond the Map and shut Up a second as well.
I'm not on that, but I might as well plug
great podcast. It's also on the networks a few times.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
It's great and on Our Death Start.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Recently a very funny episode I get called a big baby,
which is a great it's actually a big baby.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
My favorite thing recently is to just tell people to
grow up. I like about something that's not you don't
really need to grow about like just kind of you know,
do you want another coffee?
Speaker 4 (44:19):
No? No, I can I have one? Oh my god,
grow coffee man.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, it's always funny your big baby.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
That's I saw. There's this other podcast. I think it's
an American podcast called Almost Friday maybe, but they had
this couple on and the wife of the girlfriend we're
saying something she loves to do. And I think this
is so funny. Is anytime someone's being even slightly annoying
and she's out with her boyfriend, like somebody like I
don't know, taking too long to order a coffee or something,
she whacks him and she goes do something that's really funny.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Something that fantastic, that.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Is very good. Thank you so much for coming today.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
Just before you leave, I would like say, for fifty dollars,
will you pick up digs and swing it around your head?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Absolutely love to for fifty bucks for a crumpled fifty dollars.
Speaker 6 (45:09):
Note that's in you make money.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
I mean I don't have fifty bucks. Do something.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Goodbye, run it see ya
Hey there, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to not Another crime podcast. I'm Georgia Love, I'm
Sammy Peterson, I am a journalist. I am not but
today we are joined by wonderful podcast Extraordinary Air from
Sans Pants from Plumbing the Desk that it is the
great Jackson Bailey.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Welcome, thank you. Oh I got extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You're also wearing headphones today, which is I'll tell you
g Love right now.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I am shocked Jackson's I've never seening wear headphones before.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, that's true. Am I nailing it?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Really well? Yeah, your hair is sitting beautifully.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm so glad about it. You're not a crazy thing
about my hair. I would like to ac Okay, so
this is insane. But when I was younger, not that
much younger, like in my twenties, Yeah, I had straight hair.
And then one day I I wished that I could
have curly hair too, just in general.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, that's not a wish man, you can pay for that.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
And then but then, like in like a couple of
days or maybe all week, my hair became curly's.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
I don't appreciate you coming into our place, our podcast
and lined to us.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Within the first minute.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You find it mean if you find a photo, can
actually show us.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
They have to Google, We have to find you find
the photo.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Well, God to your parents.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Hey, we're just looking for photos of your child in
there like mid Glory.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
We're cool.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Two days before he was curly. You can show me
the last photo. Take you don't worry.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We're really interested in crime for his big wish.
Speaker 6 (01:29):
If you can, we have.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
A crime podcast. Can we see a photo of your child?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
No younger, younger younger?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Unfortunately I can only find photos of me with very
short hair. But I promise that I want to trust.
And then I wished. I just the only time I've ever.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Eat a story, people say fairy tale.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
People say, you know, you put energy out into the universe.
Matter of fact, the only time I've ever done it
was for curly hair.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Stopped there, used on Yeah exactly with I thought of
a sketch idea of the other I was telling you
about it, where it's a person who has one wish
a year, and it's like they're so and they have
one wish a year, and every single time he looks
at his girlfriend for and he always wishes for a kiss,
(02:15):
and it's like very sweet, but she's pierced of not
today's trying to be romanic.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
And you're wasting it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You're wasting and the sketch just heaps of people standing
in front of him, excited, and as soon as he
makes the wish, they all just walk.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
You could wish for.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So come on tell us about it, because I didn't
call your podcast to first tell us about Sandspance and
then why you hate headphones?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Okay, well so.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
As well?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I also Sandspance Radio is
a podcast network that I'm a part of that started
about thirteen years ago and Latrobe University where we discovered
that they had this like professional studio no one was using.
It was largely abandoned, and we were like, well, let's
kind of someone living sneak our way in and pretty
(03:05):
that guy have straight hair.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Remember that's why your identity.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And then I mean eventually they kicked us out of it,
but that's it's kind of where it starts. Yeah, sure,
And from that initial you know, a couple of podcasts
we spun off Plumbing the Death Style based of Speculation,
Thumb Crig just too many, too many podcasts we lament
it every.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Day, Plumbing the Death Start and dumb Cramps, so kind
of your main.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yes, yeah, well we kind of have two branches in
a weird way. We have the sort of plumbing the
death Star side of things, which is me, Joel Sat
and Joel. Do we get two Joels? Which is pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
That's actually I think allisoners know. I'm really bad with numbers,
but I think that's two more goals than we haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's rights't what my dog's name is, but.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I always think that that's really what we should. It's
like the cornerstone of our success and we don't use
it enough in marketing.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And I think we deal deal Joel. We can work
with that something there.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
But yeah, so that's kind of where it started. But
so we have the sort of Joel's side of thing,
and then we also have like a role playing side
of thing where we do Joel playing.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
There you got that market Oh my god, doing a
bit of Joel playing right now.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
We have a podcast called D and D is for Nerds,
which is like a D and D sort of podcast,
and then we could be on the Map, which is
like a horror role playing thing. So again, too many
podcasts that we do, and the reason we had heard phones.
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
We used to use them.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Oh really, and then at one point.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
You just wish that they didn't have to In two
days time, they never use.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We're going to have Joel on soon, one of the Joels.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah, yeah, and I will bring it up with yeah,
please do please do.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Just accuse him of not wearing everything.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
He'll probably have a better explanation.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, it's so funny because you know Maso, and anytime
I've done a podcast with Maso before, he always just goes,
I don't want them every time.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I don't want them to know.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
From me as someone who has self described too many podcasts,
which is your favorite?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Oh great question. It depends on the day. So sometimes
if I'm doing too much D and D, I'm like,
I'm sick of this.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, because podcasts can go for a Loh.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, you're in there for like eight hours pretending to
be a wizard or oh okay.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I was like I know what I didn't until you Yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
Yeah, it's largely pretending to be a wizard.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, largely by and large what it is. And then,
because I don't know, we did this stupid thing where
we were like let's make these like in depth long campaigns,
these big adventures. Then you lock yourself into.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You Oh, I'm so embarrassed.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
You got to sneeze.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
That's live, that's live.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Put headphones on. It was so loud.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
It's funny that we do use headphones because the amount
of times when like you know, if you've got headphones on,
you can of the audio is bad. Yes, we don't
know the point.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
We don't know until afterwards, after you've recorded.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
For often we don't know until our deal listeners go, hey,
this episode went on.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That was a complete silence.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Wow, that's amazing. Well, our episodes, none of them have
been eight hours. Yes, yet however you have come along today,
Yeah with you're look, you're bringing the energy, you bring
the story.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, you're bringing the got no plans, famously.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Nothing after this.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
So let's see what happens.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You've brought a story.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I brought a story. I brought one of my favorite crimes.
Oh wow, I would.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Say, you are your crime person. You criminals crime person.
We got him sting operation, just the biggest Why that
microphone in front of you face a microphone, it's a WHI.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, I like true crime but I think I go
through like sort of phases of loving it being like.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I gotta stop it too much, But I also.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Love like non murder true craw.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Just always scams and frauds, and they can be so fascinating.
I have been like, last night you went out and
had drinks with a friend and you had a lovely time.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I that sounds.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I watched two documentaries on Eileen Warner's.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Then I read about her for hours and it was
really late at night when I texted you she had
a good night?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
You said, have you had a good night? Was like
not really. It was a deep dive and I was like.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Oh no, but like you can go down that rabbit
hole so far you start and the things about Wikipedia
dot com not plug. But when I was like clicking
on different links and everything and then going to an article,
who's that person? I start looking in and oh god,
you go down so quickly.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 6 (08:00):
I know.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
There's been like many times where I've been like, oh,
I've just listened to like five hours of YouTube documentary
about like Jeffrey Epstein. Stop, let's take a little break.
But I also, I guess this isn't really true crime.
But I love like lost media and stuff as well,
where it's like, oh, and like the weird thing about
lost media is it never has to be like anything
(08:21):
dark or scary. It can be like, hey, these episodes
of SpongeBob, Nobody's yeah, somehow it's really interesting to like
learn about. Or a favorite one of mine was on
I think it was the lost media subreddit. Somebody posted
this photo. It was like a sticker of like a
kind of goblin looking guy, and they were like, what,
who is this? What's this from?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I think it's It had like a title up above
that was like not this but something like Glibbert, and
they were like, who's glued?
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah yeah, and then they'll gets spun off into like
a whole subreddit of people are trying to track down
and use clues and like emailing people to just try
and find out.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
It's great because it's like kind of like pepe As well.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, I'd love to do pepe as the story, but
pep from four.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Cham Yeah, because a story for the crime.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No No.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I was like those thoughts of lost media and not
lost media, but it's a story that doesn't fit true crimes.
You go down those rabbit holes of like looking into
something like that's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
We do call it not another crime podcast because now
more int just things we find interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah, interesting things.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Crime, Yeah, for sure. Another the other Joel, not Joe,
but the other Joel. Too many, there's too many. He
started to go down like that lost media sort of.
He started investigating to try and find some lost media
about the Remember the old TV show Who Dares Wins?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yes, yeah, so with Mikey with exactly and.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah, exactly great, so funny to watch again and.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Interviewed her for something years and years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was so bizarre, was obsessed with there's whims and
he was like, you starts druck. That's only two people
I've ever seen Dave starstruck about ten years later and Lista.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Mckinn Yeah, Dave, wa here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
That's one of the segments.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I know, I listened to.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's really funny watching Hoodas Wins again because it's such
like a low fire TV show where it's like Mike
Whitney going into a supermarket and being like, hey, you
want to pull strip off in game and put your
hand in this tank of crabs and then they do it, Yeah,
and he just pulls the fifty just pulls the fifty
bucks out of his like coach like. It's so because
(10:38):
he was.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
A cricketer, wasn't he was at in the day. And
then for some reason I think that's true. And then
for some reason he became the host of Who Dares Wins?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
And it was so much today.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I remember an episode where it was he went up
to a couple and he goes, why don't you to
strip off in this sleeping bag in this supermarket in
the shopping center? Why is he ate always in a
shopping and that's so crazy? Clothes as a gag. Oh my,
that's that's his human.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
That's yeah, exactly, a funny guy.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Funny guy.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Well, the crime that I want to sorry, hey, two.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
People found in a sleep.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
The Sydney shark arm murder case. Do you know about this?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You messaged me about it last night and I made
a I did not look anything at all.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I'd never heard of this before.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
This is like it's a classic piece of I don't
know what you call Sydney folkloro or whatever. It's like
the kind of thing that I remember first hearing about
when I was like very little and there was like
a documentary my parents were watching, you know, like you
have those like vague where you're like.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It's just for some reason, there's a memory tucked in.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
There, absolutely, and this was was one of them. The
thing that I always remember is the photograph, the black
and white photograph of the arm in question, and the
very notable tattoo that is that is on it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Okay, So in zach Day nineteen thirty five, there is
a an indoor pool in Sydney owned by a man
named quite exactly Charlie Hobson. Charlie, Charlie Hobson's indoor pool is.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Not doing so hot.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay, he's kind of losing money on it.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Your pool, I'm hemming.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I'll give you fifty bucks my pool.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It doesn't seem like a pool is a guaranteed money maker.
Everybody always needs to go in the pool, but this
one it's not. But it's not doing well. The pool's
in trouble. But thankfully, just a couple of days ago,
some some guys out in the bay captured a one
ton tiger shark. Okay, and Charlie Hobson g says, get
(12:48):
it in the pool, because if we put it in
the indoor pool. People are going to.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Put a shark in an indoor yeah, shark, and the
people will come.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
That's why.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
That's where that famous saying came from.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, it was a lie, so it was a living shark.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Weirder if they.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's awesome, this sho Arguably the fact I actually think
fewer people would come to see.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
The I just wanting to fool. It's indoor fool.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, in nineteen thirty five.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Get like, I'm picturing like a twenty five meter indoor pool, not.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Like someone's pool in their home that is indoor, like
a swimming center.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, it's kind of the vibe like like a leisure
center sort of situation.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Enough.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, so then it's a shark.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Isn't twenty meters long? Dead? But I'm learning it. Is
it alive or dead? It's alive? No than my money elsewhere?
Like to do something?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, to look at his dead shot?
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Yeah fifty doing it?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Not worth.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
One question? DLA.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
So Anzact Day, a couple of days after the shark
is put in the pool. Inzact Day, rolls around and
the shark is the sharks, but the shark's looking queasy. Okay,
it's slowing down.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
Yeah, it's kind of what you may.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
And it's it makes it the sharks sort of slowly
moving around. It's it's it's sort of container, it's tank,
and it's not looking well. And then suddenly it throws
it in the slow lane.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
It's some really angry man on his lunch break trying
to stay in your light.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
It throws out, it throws up, and it throws up.
And so this is a bit that in my research
was really hard to find out the specifics of. So
I know it throws up a rat, a bird, and
a human arm, but it also possibly throws up and
this seems crazy and I couldn't verify this anywhere.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
The rest of the story is fine and normal.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
So this is the only crazy bit. It throws up
a smaller shark, which then was up.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
So I am recognizing this story, and that is I recognize.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
That, but I couldn't have tried it anywhere, like the yeah, the.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Surprise little one in the middle.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah, yeah, because the story alleged in some places, the
alleged that the smaller shark.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
You don't need to say, alleged that the shark is
not going to see you dead.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
I just want to be safe, Okay, I just want
to I don't know if the sharks have stayed or
it's it's surviving family. But I don't have to go
to court in the sea, you know, I'm I'm just
protecting myself. Yeah, is that the smaller shark is what
ate the hand and then the bigger shark ate the
smaller shark. But I think the idea of that, like
(15:47):
the I can't believe that, but anyway, that's that's that's
what in some places alleged the law. So people like, obviously,
this is crazy. There's a seven arm. This is the
craziest hands act they've ever had a my life. I'm
looking at it.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Just one.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
It came around and see Charlie's bull. I'm just like,
I'm a little bit hungover. I'm not sure all of
this is actually happening.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
More hungover than I thought.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Is the shark. I'm in the room with us right now.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
So they're like, well, this is I mean, obviously something's
going on here. They get the arm out, and then
they noticed something that makes it even stranger. Obviously, you
see a seven arm pop out of a shark, you
think the sharks bitter guy's armor. That's what we all. Yeah,
did somebody fall in earlier today, I don't know, look
around for a guy with one arm looking in the tank.
(16:50):
But instead of it being bitten off, it's been cut off.
And so they go, well, interesting, Okay, the shark didn't
bite this armor. Yeah, the shark just ate a loose arm.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, yeah, So it becomes a murder investigation, or at
least close to, because they go, well, somebody either and
this is also weirdly relevant, either somebody is dead and
the shark, or somebody was chopped up and the shark
ate a bit of their body, or somebody has just
lost an arm at sea and yeah, they've survived, you know,
(17:24):
an attack or whatever, and the shark ate their loose.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's what I was thinking that that would be more
like that would be the thing. It's like someone swimming
a shark ate someone. But that's while that it was
cut off.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Yeah, I'm thinking it was like a gang land. I
think I suspect like a gang land like someone said
their arm chopped off as a punishment, and then they
fed it to the shark for sure, which should be
easy to find whose whose.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
Arm belongs to?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah? Absolutely, because they'll be walking around.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Yeah. Gang, Yeah, the underwelled man with one giveaway.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
No, not me. Don't recognize them, but they're gone.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
She kept the shock in the pool. Everyone's talking about that.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
So the arm has a distinctive tattoo on and this
helps them identify this along with fingerprints, allegedly helps them.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Allegedly very good of the worst days of all time.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Suspects shop.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Is that it's got a distinctive tattoo, which is two
boxes fighting. And with this information, the deceased's brother identifies
who it was, a man named Jim Smith. Now Jim
Smith was a boxer and then on the World Criminals. Yeah,
well done on the money.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
You got fifty dollars from Mike.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Coming get to your a supermarket, sold this crime and
I'll give you a fifty bucks.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
You put in a shopping center.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Mike, I'm pretty sure there's a five hundred thousand dollars
reward being offered by police. Fifty bucks right now, fifty
bucks cash.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
So Jim Smith started sort of like tracing what happened
to him and talking to people that knew him and
trying to figure out the last moments of his life
and the last place that he was seen by anybody
was with a man named Patrick Brady, who was another criminal.
He was a forger, and they were in a pub together,
and then allegedly after the pub, they were renting a
cottage together, gone No Matter Bay.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, they were just good friends.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh that's what I'm here, That's what I'm thinking. So
they were, Yeah, they were at the pub, you know,
having a good time, and then they both left to
go to their cottage that they owned. And then I
love this story so much. Then Brady, Patrick Brady, the
master forger, he turns up at a man named Reginald
Lloyd holmes estate. Now Reginald Lloyd Holmes was like a
like a like a very wealthy. He had a big mansion.
(19:49):
He was like a pillar of his local church. He
was like much beloved. I think he was involved in
local politics. But he was also a boat builder and
he was using the speedboats that he built to smuggle
cocaine into city, me from all the ships that would
be out in the bay.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So he arrives at Holmes's house. We don't really know
what happens there. And then so he arrives at Homes's
house and that's the last we kind of know of
the operations of these two men. People come suspicious, obviously
something's going on. Did Brady kill him?
Speaker 6 (20:20):
Like what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And there's also some sort of discussion that people know
in the underworld that Holmes and Smith had worked together,
but they'd had a falling out as of recent because
of an insurance scam that had gone wrong. So they go, well,
maybe Holmes and Brady or something they kind of got
together to kill Smith and you know, dump his body.
(20:43):
The police bringing Brady and Homes but they can't they
can't get anything both of them, you know, they keep
their lips sealed. Clearly, this is the Sydney Underworld is
a close knit community. You don't want to squild of
the police. Yeah, exactly, hanging out in the cottages is
really hard to get the use.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Of the word cottage's boxing cocaine boats.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah yeah. So the police, you know, they take them
into questioning, but they don't get anything out of them,
and they go, well, we don't have much, you know,
there's like speculation we're going to prove. Then Holmes does
something very bizarre, so he gets in one of his
speedboats and he flees out into the bay with a
gun and the police are like, well, he's running away,
(21:25):
clearly he's a dangerous.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Oh my god, he was armed.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Exactly, and he's zooming around the bay and the police
are chasing him. Then he brings and this is again
a completely unbelievable part of this story, but allegedly it's true.
He pulls the gun out to kill himself. He puts
the gun to his for his forehead, shoots, but the
bullets are of such an inferior quality that they bounce
off his skull instead of killing him. It stuns him.
(21:56):
He falls into the water out of his boat. The police,
obviously from their perspective and their police boats go, he's
killed himself.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
He sh he's falling the water.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
He then, after like a minute or thirty seconds, gets
out of the water, gets back into his boat, and
leads the police on a four hour chase around the bay.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
After just a little, like just a little.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
You know, gans is back from shooting himself in the air.
What I think, that's crazy. I think it's I think
that's crazy to me, to me, that's I know what
you think, Yeah, it's something to do with like the
quality of the bullets. They were like like a nickel
based on.
Speaker 6 (22:35):
So, I don't know the specifics I'm not I'm not
a gun.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Guy, but not a big gun guy.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I don't know what kind of gun you can shoot
yourself in the head and it'll be fine.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And the water, yeah, exactly cottage part of this underground well, but.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, I also think it must be crazy from his
perspective where he shoots himself and he's like, this is it.
I'm indicating this crime. I'm going to take my own life,
shoots himself in the head, falls in the water, and
then he's like, well that it didn't take out he wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Like in the back of his mind the voice of
like a teacher from when he was at schoolgirling, you
can't do anything right, exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Fucked up again.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, so yeah, so he falls in the water that
he's kind of led in this police chase and they
capture him again and they start to question it because
they go, you some what's going on here?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Body?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Allegedly he says, and this is keep saying, agend journalist.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
When we talk about the shot.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
When he's captured, he says, uh, Smith's gone and like
either he says Brady's next or he's next, And it's
unclear whether he's saying I killed Smith and now I'm
going to kill Brady, or whether he's like, Brady killed
Smith and now Brady's after me exactly. So it's very uncle.
I mean, look, things that happened later make it seem
like probably it's the latterer, but still so this is
(24:08):
what Holmes claims when he's brought in for questioning, and
the police are like, buddy, come on, an innocent man
doesn't drive around the bay in a speedboat and shoot
themselves in their head.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, regular thing.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
So Holmes claims that Brady arrived at his house with
only the arm of Smith, and that he used the
arm to threaten Holmes into giving him five hundred pounds,
so he like waggled it at it. It was like,
look what I did to this guy, I'll do it
to you unless you give me five hundred pounds. Oh god,
which would have been scary. Where's the rest of the body, man, Yeah?
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Why just the arms? Like, if anything, you could argue
the arm is the least.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
Like picturing, like, like you know, it's quite a happy.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I'm imagining like the basin flopping around like a Muppets
arm And then and I think this is funny as well.
Allegedly Smith no not Smith, Brady leaves the arm at
Holmes this place.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
When he leaves, can you keep that I've done what
I needed with this?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
And then Holmes dumps it in the bay because he's like,
I don't want to have an arm on my property. Yeah,
it's so funny.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
That's why maybe that was a bit of a threat,
kind of like, yeah, watch out because you know the
police come to your house and you've got a seven army.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yeah, exactly, looking can we just look at this?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It just started cuddling into about the shark again.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Love shark wick dogs would love yeahs in particular, I think.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
A big take him to the pool and see if
you can find one.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
That's a great idea if you have seen I saw
a video once of a dog and a seal looking
at each other and you could tell that on some
level they were like you like the water, it looks like, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
He's got When he's I think when you have come
to his arms probably and they're like tapped under, he
looks like it looks like.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I'm so sorry, we digress.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
We digress. So I think it's funny to imagine because
this I think what Holmes is kind of implying that
when Brady left, he just forgot the arm, like himself down,
like what did I do with people? And you you
really can't when you threaten someone with a seven arm,
you can't knock on the door and be like, can
(26:37):
I threaten else? That's just wo Yeah, I don't know
if you realize. So Holmes is like, well, I'll testify
against him in court. I'll say this happened to me.
We can arrest him. The next day, Holmes is found
shot three times point blank in the chest in a
car on a street somewhere Inie. Wow, this is another
(26:58):
piece of the story that I cannot find. I've found
some places to go. Some theorize that X and I've
never found who's theorizing this, But some people say that
the one of the theories is that Holmes hired a
hit man to as a kind of bizarre suicide, to
shoot himself in the chest four times.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
They might have better bullets.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Exactly, it would have. Yeah, I don't know. That seems
insane to me. I don't know why that's something people
are theorizing. I don't I sort of don't believe.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
I don't know all the comings and goings of the underworld,
but maybe that there's something in that, like I don't know,
So you could set someone else.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
For it, yeah, yeah, true, true, true. You could be like,
well I didn't you know, I didn't take myself out.
It was a hit man.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
And then it's just kind of a bit of a
funny thing to do someone someone like from the grived,
you know.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
It is like leaving a note.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
I was actually that a friend I went out with
for dinner last night, Saming was really happy about for me.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I don't know how why we were talking about this.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
If you are in a plane crash, like if you
think the plane you're in is going to go down, Yeah,
they say to write a note like in your notes app, and.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Like screenshot that and put it as the background of
your phone. If there's no like reception.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
People can find it.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah, if you've got.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
A message for someone, like you know, tell Mama love
her or something like that. And I was like, oh
my god, that is so it could be so funny,
Like if that was if I was going down in
a plane. I would do that, but I wouldn't be like,
you know, tell these people I love them, this is
what I want to do with my life.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
This will be my legacy. I would just write something
like Elizabeth knows the truth what happened on five? And
then Elizabeth is like, I don't know what she's talking
about her dying words. This is what you want us
to know.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
So Elizabeth, you'd be like, what do I.
Speaker 5 (28:59):
That's like, if there is an afterlife, that is great
entertaining for me out there. If not, still just funny exactly, Oh,
just funny to stitch up friend.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
That's like your grieving friends.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
They were missing you. Why would she do this to
what a cruel thing to do? I wish I could
remember who it is specifically, but there's some story about
somebody in like the eighteen hundred somewhere at a university,
I think, and he did a similar thing while he
was alive. He sent like four or five anonymous letters
to like people he knew at the university. I'm probably
(29:33):
getting the story very wrong, but something like this where
it was like they found us out, we need to flee,
and one guy disappeared. One guy went and they.
Speaker 6 (29:42):
Never saw him.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Wow, oh my god. So he did it as a job.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, he hit it as a He was like, this
is just like a funny frank, We'll see what happens.
And one guy was like, the know, I know, what
did he do? I don't know. I don't think that's
just like if they were friends. What a funny way
to lose a friend.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Exactly the book before about when I was beaned.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
When I was beaned, I was beaned possibly.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
I was here, you don't don't bring this story to us,
and then look at me like something I've said is weird.
I was sitting at home, like a Saturday night, home alone,
and I heard like a knock at the door.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
And my door has.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
The doorbell, so it's like a loud.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
I'm doing pretty well, and it was like a loud.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Like angry knock at the door. So I was like, oh,
I'm not like, I'm not answering that. And then I
could kind of see the shadow of someone like moving away,
and then heard allowed like kind of like a bang,
not like a gunshop, but like something hitting the door,
and then heard people like scurrying away, and then heard
a car drive.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Off, and I was like, what has just what's going on?
Speaker 5 (30:51):
So I was like, I'm not going to the door now.
Left it about like maybe ten or fifteen minutes or something.
I can't hear any more noises. Open the door and
there was a can of baked beans that had been
pelted at my door, and they were baked beans all
over my doorsteps.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Do you know who did it?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Did?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
You have no idea, no idea, no idea why?
Speaker 5 (31:18):
But the reason I bring it up that because it
reminds me of that thing with the notes is I
was like, if I had a big secret, I would
think it was someone threatening me saying we're going.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
To spill the beans.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Of course, but.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I didn't have a secret. Beaned crazy, And isn't it.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
It's funny how much you can change someone's life with
something as simple as.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
If I was harboring a secret, I could have gone
into a full spin out someone knows they're going to
spill the beans.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
But even without a secret, you're left forever wondering why,
why would why was.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
It put beans on my house? Can't we place some.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Beans on quite nice?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Actually opened the door?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Would they have been to me?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I guess because they were knocking they wanted your attention,
they wanted to they got it.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
If you are the beaner listening to this, please.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
That another crime that we do.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
We have one again well rested without the you know
now the homes were dead. They were like, well we
can't that was our style witness. We've got nothing else
on Brady. We can't do anything, and in court Brady
got off.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
Basically he lucky Brady.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
In court, Brady's lawyer, I love this argument. And this
comes back to the thing I said very early on.
Brady's lawyer was like, you can't even call it murder
because we don't know. We don't have the body.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
All we have is the arm.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
So Smith might be walking around alive. He's just got.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
One, just a lopsided.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And the jury, I guess, like he's got a point. Yeah,
you can't prove beyond yeah, exactly, it's not it's not
and is not a body.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
I think is the specific it's a bit of wisdom,
you know.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
So basically that that's kind of where it ends, is
that Brady has gotten away, well maybe has gotten away
with it. We don't really The relationship between all these
three men are still very confused and we still don't
know the specifics, but an interesting thing did come out.
A little addendum came out later on in regards to Smith.
So it turned out Smith was what was at the
time known as, I think, and this is a crazy
word a fizz gig or a phizzle fiz gig being
(33:39):
a police informant. A fiz gig or a phizzle that's.
Speaker 6 (33:43):
What they called them in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I don't take it away people, ye, a bit of
a phys gig, but so some and he the person
that he was tattling on effectively was a man we
have fizzen on exactly fizzing up was a man named
Eddie Weyman, and Eddie Weyman was like the big boss
of the Sydney underworld at the time, or one of
the big bosses, and he'd had a failed bank robbery
(34:08):
that some people theorize is because Smith was basically telling
the police where he would be being a police informant.
So some people are like, well, look it could have
been Brady. I mean, that is suspicious. But also he
was like a basically a marked man because you know,
at the time, I mean, it's funny when you read
stuff like this, and they're like, in the nineteen thirties,
to be a police informant was no good. I think
(34:30):
it's probably still the case n about that. I don't
think we've eased up on that at any point. So
people like, well, if he was a marked man, probably
he was actually taken out by you know, assassins or
you know hitman. Assassins a bit many for the Sydney
underground in the nineteen thirties, but hitman working for you know,
(34:53):
the kind of big bosses for Eddie, for Big Eddie exactly. God,
that's really who talking about. And I think when you
think about that, like it kind of of the things
tying the other, you know, players in this, like like
Brady and Lloyd, they are kind of tenuous.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
It's like, well, I guess they were in a cottage together.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
I mean something was going on.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Obviously in love.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Obviously that's not a crime. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no,
to be fair in nine Yeah, so that's kind of
the Sydney Shark arm murder case. Something that starts with
something as simple as hom drum as a indoor pool
throwing up arm.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
That's just such a normal, boring story. It's the thing made.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Can you imagine for whether it was Eddie Brady or
whoever it was, or all of the people somehow involved
in the killing of the assumed killing of Jim Smith.
When they saw on the news that the arm we
threw one arm into Sydney Harbor.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Yeah, yeah, we threw a single lass.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
A little ingle shark was brought into an indoor pool,
Are you kidding? Me?
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Kidding?
Speaker 3 (36:13):
You'd be like, sure, maybe a shark leader, but no,
one's gonna fine.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
And then that ends up in Charlie's pool on a
do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (36:20):
They were at the pool watching and being like pleased
shark in the pool.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
He started to look cueazy and like feeding him, like
you get him.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Some tom, get him around, and got just a shot
A small.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
Breathed very slowly between you, like you'll be okay, don't
throw up, don't.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Throw up please. I don't think we know what quite
what became. I mean probably you could find out, but
quite what became of the shark either, which I think
it's said he falls out of the story. So and
what became of the pool? Yes, well, no, the pool.
Actually do know is that the pool they tried to
make it like a like a heritage side, to be
like the indoor pool, Bozeman Indoor Pool. But I think
(37:01):
it didn't. It either didn't last or they ignored it
and they bulldozed it down, which I think is so sad.
I think you should be able to go to that
pool today and they're like, this is the pool right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah, I wasn't sitting this week.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah you should you go take a photo.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
With the Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Whether was there any backstory behind the rat and the
bird that he also threw up?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
No?
Speaker 3 (37:23):
But I think of rats a very interesting thing for
a shark to have eaten, because I get if it's
a seagull, it lands on the water, the sharks there.
Speaker 6 (37:31):
How did that rat get in there?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
How?
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That's an insane story.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I think it's crazy, and I think it's such a
it's such a like a bizarre sequence of events, and
I love that it's still you kind of don't really have.
Speaker 6 (37:47):
A satisfying conclusion.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Was it that Lloyd killed him? Not, yeah, the Brady
killed him, sorry to blackmail Lloyd. But if Brady was
doing that to blackmail Lloyd, like, was Braidy his plan?
Because this is I guess what the story sort of
implies Brady's plan is kill my best friend and maybe
love a Lloyd. Yes, I mean Smith's dump his body somewhere,
(38:11):
chop off an arm to wave that, to take the
arm to Lloyd, wave the arm to get.
Speaker 5 (38:16):
It's just like you think he was a bit dumb.
And someone said, when you're going to threaten someone, make
sure your.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Aunt and he was like, and he was like he
was thinking about that at the pub, and then he
was like, you know, Smith's got.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
I think if I was an underworld like gangland figure
and I was going to chop off someone's arm and
or kill them and then use that arm as a
threatening tool, I would cut out the tattoo before dumping
the arm.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
That seems smart, yeah, yeah yeah, or sand it off.
They'll never find me, Elizabeth, But yeah, I think it's
it is that one of those things where you go
if you try and like when you're hearing the find
the sequence of events seems.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
To make sense, but if you.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Actually like, look, if you think about it, it doesn't
at all. Like, is that was that Brady's plan to
make five hundred pounds kill a man take the That's bizarre,
that's crazy and.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Just what are the odds that that? What are the odds?
It makes you think how many times?
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Make you think how many times something like that has
very nearly happened.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, if the shark hadn't thrown up, none of this
would have ever happened.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
That chlorine, Yeah, exactly, that is an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, Hugh Jackson, heydile all good.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I think as well if you were the two criminals,
if you were, say, if Brady did do it, you'd
be like, is there a shark? Because where the rest
of the body is presumably dumped in the bay as well, Yeah,
you'd be like, are they going to find more sharks?
Each one?
Speaker 6 (39:48):
Is a little bit of Smith in.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
The popping fingers down the throat of all the sharks.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Just to see where the bodies are. But yeah, I
think that's a great story. I think it's it's got
so many fun twists and turns. They should have made
a season of Underbelly.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
How haven't they made?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Like?
Speaker 4 (40:05):
But under almost too serious?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
It needs to be like a like a fargo, like
an Australian fargo.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
That would be absolutely.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Episode could be a great blue They go to the aquarium,
shark local shark in the.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Yeah, we're copyrighting and trademarking the Fargo esque film version
of these Who are we casting.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
In its great question? Well, I think Ben Mendelssohn movie
could be good for.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Somebody, and maybe Reese Muldoon.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Rob Carton will have to be in there for no reason, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
For no reason, just as a man in the background.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
I'm casting Bruce from Finding Nemo as the main sharks. Great,
and then the shark from Sharks Tail as the sharks.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Bruce Patty Newton's the voice.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
What does the shark said? Is the voice just like
throwing shouldn't shark?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So Rob Carlton is definitely Charles Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, he's the one with the
sharking pool. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Or John Howard the actor who was Bob Jelly.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
And John Howard the former Prime Minister play that's.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
A great question. The narrator. Narrator, let me tell you
the story about something that happened in Sydney.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
That's I'm so excited for this movie.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Guy.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
You know in Matilda where Danny DeVito.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Starts every story, Yeah, Danny.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
DeVito plays him like he plays the dad in it,
but he also is the narrator. Oh yeah, so weird.
It's maybe John Howard or.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
He didn't feel too good that day.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Maybe John Howard completely in that. But you can also
play Bozeman the pool and we can try and imply
that this was what John how It did before getting
into botle.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Is exactly a big career, exactly second worst antact day.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
That's you only have one, let me tell.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
You, and that's how our story starts today. Oh my god, Jackson,
that was amazing. Thank you, so.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
How do people find you? And all the sands Pants podcast?
Speaker 3 (42:31):
So you can find me if you go. I'm on
Twitter for some reason. Still you're working around I don't
know why I'm still there, but I am. I'm at
all dogs a dad. That's just that's the name I picked.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Don't listen, please comfortable.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
That's that's the name I chose for my Twitter handle
years and years and years ago. And as I entered
sort of like the podcasting scene, sam My boss was like, please,
for the love of God, change it to something seo friendly.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, yeah, never had.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
Now I'm going to do it even less because you've
told me to.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
And then I want to make this my handle.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
It it harder.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Well, I think when he was yelling at us about
that Cass who is also on the network, she got
a Twitter and made it at Jackson Bailey. So I
truly made it a nightmare for anybody trying.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
To find That's very funny.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Again, I think we're.
Speaker 5 (43:23):
All about of our friends to the energy we're bringing
into this recording.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
You can find me on Instagram at Ham's Forever. Sure. Yeah,
also not my name.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
I'm glad you because someone who just.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
And you can find all of the Sandspans Radio podcast
Sandspans Radio dot com, jump or just search it in
your podcast app of choice. You'll find this, Plumbing the
Death Star, Baseless Speculation, thomb cramp stand is for nerds,
and Beyond the Map and shut Up a second as well.
I'm not on that, but I might as well plug
great podcast. It's also on the networks a few times.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
It's great and on Our Death Start.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Recently a very funny episode I get called a big baby,
which is a great it's actually a big baby.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
My favorite thing recently is to just tell people to
grow up. I like about something that's not you don't
really need to grow about like just kind of you know,
do you want another coffee?
Speaker 4 (44:19):
No? No, I can I have one? Oh my god,
grow coffee man.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, it's always funny your big baby.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
That's I saw. There's this other podcast. I think it's
an American podcast called Almost Friday maybe, but they had
this couple on and the wife of the girlfriend we're
saying something she loves to do. And I think this
is so funny. Is anytime someone's being even slightly annoying
and she's out with her boyfriend, like somebody like I
don't know, taking too long to order a coffee or something,
she whacks him and she goes do something that's really funny.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Something that fantastic, that.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Is very good. Thank you so much for coming today.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
Just before you leave, I would like say, for fifty dollars,
will you pick up digs and swing it around your head?
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Absolutely love to for fifty bucks for a crumpled fifty dollars.
Speaker 6 (45:09):
Note that's in you make money.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
I mean I don't have fifty bucks. Do something.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Goodbye, run it see ya
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