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March 16, 2021 54 mins

#OrdineroliSpeaking Caitlin Thwaites is a netball champion. After 18 seasons playing at the top level, Caitlin retired last year with another premiership with the Melbourne Vixens. For the first time, she reveals the family anguish behind that premiership. Caitlin has dealt with mental health issues throughout her life and the compounding nature of a world impacted by Covid tested her more than ever.


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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Ordinarily speaking, every day I manage and live with my
mental health, but even I couldn't see how difficult.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Last year was going to be.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Too soon time, Hello and welcome to ordinarily speaking, I'm
narrowly meadows. Today's guest is netball champion Caitlyn Thwaites. Caitlyn
is a Commonwealth Games gold medallist and a World Cup
champion with the Diamonds. She played eighteen seasons in the

(00:42):
National League and finished her career with another premiership with
the Vixens last year. For the first time. Caitlyn shares
the personal anguish behind that premiership. Having managed mental health
issues throughout her life, the compounding nature of COVID had
dire consequences on Caitlyn's well being, all the while she

(01:03):
was also coping with news that had rocked her family.
I want to thank Caitlyn and her family for allowing
their private battle to go public in this episode. I
can't stress enough that this chat contains some very raw
and confronting content that may be triggering for some people.
Please listen with care and know that there is help

(01:23):
out there. Beyond blue dot Org, Dot au and Lifeline
one three Double one one four are just a couple
of places you can go. This is a story of
strength and resilience, and I thank Caitlyn for the bravery
she has shown in her bid to try and help others.
I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much

(01:51):
for spending some time with me. You've spoken about your
mental health issues a little bit before. What made you
do that in the first place. Yes, I think initially
it was hard for me to speak about it openly
at the time when I probably didn't have the coping

(02:11):
skills or the strategies and I felt like I was
fully in the.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Mist of it.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
I guess, yes, so it kind of took a while
for me to be open about it publicly. But that
that's not saying that I wasn't, you know, the inner
sanctum of people and even my teammates and people like
that were aware at the time. It was more probably
from a media perspective and the external perspective that it

(02:39):
took me a while to be okay.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
With talking about it.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
But the biggest thing for me was that when I
was going through it, I actually sought out and found
a lot of comfort in other people's stories and other
athletes hearing their journey about it all and learned a
lot and you know, a lot of those coping strategies
and things I actually learned from hearing other people's stories.

(03:04):
And so because I benefited from that, I've kind of
felt a responsibility to be able to speak about that
for you know, the next generation of people coming through
if I could help others. So it's almost like a
paying it forward type thing for you. Yeah, and you know,
it's We've come so far in terms of reducing stigma,

(03:25):
you know, the normalizing of mental health issues since my diagnosis.
So my diagnosis was probably about ten or twelve years ago,
and the attitudes around that publicly have changed so much
in that time, which I'm really grateful for that. But yeah,

(03:45):
I think you know, even within netball, within Netball Australia,
within the Diamonds, I know that the support and things
has kind of evolved with me as I've kind of
gone through the program, and the support and things that
have kind of been put in place around me have
actually helped put those processes in place forever for the future.

(04:08):
So what were you diagnosed with? Diagnosed with depression and anxiety.
So I think I'd experienced bouts of depression before, but
just didn't know that that's what it was. I suffered
from acute anxiety attacks at times. And what did that
look like for you? It was very physical in terms

(04:33):
of the symptoms. So initially when I started having the
anxiety attacks, I was getting checked out to see if
I had epilepsy because of how severely I shook, you know,
I had like a tremor, the hyperventilation, you know, tingling

(04:53):
in my extremities due to the hyperventilation, uncontrollable crying. Yeah,
they were pretty full on in terms of, you know,
the physical symptoms of what it was. So when did
your first experience something like that? At the Institute of
Sport when I lived up there, So I lived up
there for volleyball and I was sixteen years old, And yeah,

(05:18):
the very first one, I remember running home from school
in my school killed and my shoes and trying to
get to training in time. And I just had to
get in there and tell the coach that, like, something's
wrong with me. I need to go to the medical center,
Like I don't know what this is, but I can't
be here for training, like I'm just was so overwhelmed,

(05:41):
and the attack kind of proceeded to happen, and it
was quite frustrating because by the time any of the
nurses or the doctors actually managed to get in and
see me, it had passed, and so it kind of
appeared to me, you know, to them like there wasn't
actually any symptoms or like, what are you going on
about that?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
So I proceeded to have, you know, many attacks, and
I've gotten to a point where I don't think I've
had an anxiety attack for six or seven years now.
But my level of self awareness now is so great
that I can actually feel or sense when things are
becoming too much and pull myself back out of whatever

(06:24):
those situations are. So I can feel what the precursors
of that are within myself and yeah, and kind of
reduce whatever stimulus that is, yeah, overwhelming me. It must
have been so scary when that first happened. How old
were you sixteen?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, so, you know, there was so much going on
at that time. I was living out of home, I
was trying to juggle school with five or six hours
worth of training every day. I was traveling internationally with
the national team. We were trying to qualify for the
two thousand and four Olympics, and I was missing big
chunk of school, didn't have my support network around me,

(07:02):
my family, and you know, there was just a lot
of a lot going on. Yeah, when was it that
you went okay, it is okay, I'm going to be
okay because you got I guess a diagnosis around it.
It wasn't until I was about twenty one. So I
had gone through kind of you know, multiple I would

(07:24):
call them lack you know, months worth of being in
that cloud of depression. And yeah, it wasn't until I
was about twenty one that that diagnosis came. And that
was through the acknowledgment of the physio at the Melbourne Vixen's.
You know, we've got a great relationship and he's been
with me since I was really young through the state
teams and knows me really well, and he picked up

(07:47):
on the fact that my behaviors were changing and he
intervened and said, hey, Katie, I think it's time for
us to go and you know, see your doctor and
get checked out and see what's going on. Because he
could see that I wasn't you know, I wasn't the
same as what I normally normally would be when that
diagnosis for me happened. It was a huge relief, I

(08:11):
think initially because it kind of felt like, Okay, well
now it's got a name and we know what it is.
Now there's going to be these steps that we can take,
you know, there was a prognosis, there was things that
we could do moving forward that would help. It was
probably that initial relief then kind of was followed with
many years of going actually this isn't as we thought

(08:33):
it was. It was very very difficult, you know, at
times to get through those really big, big clouds, and
like I said, sometimes they're very short or you know,
I can experience some of the symptoms of that, and
other times it's you know, six months worth of being
in a hole. Yeah, so when you say being in

(08:56):
a hole, what does that look.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Like for you?

Speaker 1 (08:59):
There's lack of motivation, social withdrawal, not being able to
leave the house, struggling with everyday tasks like finding it
really hard to even get up and have a shower,
sleeping all day. I've dealt with insomnia, so not being
able to sleep at night, and then hypersomnia, which is
sleeping all the time, you know, the anxiety, you know,

(09:23):
just not having joy in the things that you normally
would experience joy with, or even the want and the
desire to get out and do things that you would
normally want to do. It was just gone and empty
and feeling very feelings of worthlessness, suicidal ideation. Yeah, all

(09:46):
sorts of things that kind of come along with that.
So there's the whole of what that looks like for me, Like,
I'm now so acutely aware of what those symptoms are
that I really don't want to ever get myself into
place that is unable to help myself, because there have
been times when it's been that bad that even if

(10:08):
I wanted to, I couldn't. I couldn't do anything to
try and help myself. And that's a really scary place
for me.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
I kind of feel like.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
It's, you know, steps down a spiral, And if I
can intervene at the very top of those steps of
the spiral and not get myself too far down, then
you've still got some traction, like you can actually climb
your way out, and there's still those thoughts of hope
that things can get better. But if I end up

(10:38):
halfway down or too far down, it becomes harder and
to even see the top a lot. Yeah, and so
it becomes even putting the steps in place that you
know that will help, but it seems too far away
and the effort required to do those small things is
so great. Yeah, for me, it's definitely about staying in

(11:00):
that place where you can still see the light, you
can still have traction under your feet, and kind of
implement some of those things where it will get better.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Whereas Yeah, for me, I'm.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
I just desperately don't want to get into that into
that place where it's too hard, it's too overwhelming to
to do anything to be able to help yourself.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
You articulate it so well.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Was there one moment that was the hardest for you
or a bunch of moments that that stand out to you.
The hardest moments for me have been around you know,
actually just seeing death everywhere and feeling like if I
was to disappear that nobody would care. So and that's

(11:52):
that's physically for me. Every single thing that I did
was you know, from from looking out a window picking
which tree you know, to cutting up some food and
finding a knife, to getting in the car and you know,

(12:15):
finding a pole that you think you.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Know, that's that's the level of.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Me seeing death everywhere that I managed to get to,
and that's that's the most severe for me, And it's
incredibly scary and incredibly hard to be to be in
that place, you know, and and for me now I know,

(12:44):
you know, and you can have that perspective of the
other people around you, the people that love you. But
I think the biggest thing for people who don't necessarily
understand that is that the disease actually takes a way
your ability to see it from other people's eyes, and
so that's something you lose perspective, and you can only

(13:11):
see it through your tunnel vision, and that tunnel vision
can get incredibly focused on where is my way out
because I don't want to be here? Did you tell
your family at the time, Did they know the depths
of what you were going through?

Speaker 2 (13:29):
No? No, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
I was seeking help through psychologists, through you know, other people,
and initially for me, my journey to even finding people
that were the right fit for me was actually quite
hard in itself because feeling so so low and so hard,

(13:56):
and feeling like the first psychologist I went and saw,
I felt walking out than I did walking in. I
felt like they weren't asking the right questions. I wasn't
sitting there and lying, but they weren't asking the right questions.
So to actually find somebody that you click with that
can break through some of those things, because for a

(14:17):
lot of the time during that time, I was fronting
up and putting that mask on that you hear people
talk about, you know, to the extent that if somebody said, hey,
how are you going today, Caitlyn, what you been up to? Like,
I would fabricate and make up some story about what
I'd done that day because I was so ashamed that
it wasn't until twenty minutes ago that I'd managed to

(14:40):
scrape myself out of bed and get through the shower
and get.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Out the door. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Having a whole bunch of those things now to know that,
you know, if it doesn't click with one person, find
somebody that it does click with and that can help
you and that you have that trusting relationship because it's
and for me that's been hard because I've moved around
so much too, so having to actually find different providers
in different cities that I've been living in, or you know,

(15:08):
it almost feels like, oh my god, we have to
go back to I have to explain all this again,
and you know, because I'm now living in a different
country or I'm now living somewhere else, and I have
to rehash all of this so that they can understand.
But for me, even though some of that work was
really hard, it's definitely been worth it because even you know,

(15:29):
not having been with the same providers the whole time,
I've actually learned different things off all the different people
as well. All of that is I think it's so
important because there's so many people that are first of
all scared to take the first step, but then do
take it and go, oh no, that's not what I
thought it would be or it's not what I needed.
What got you through in the end, What were the

(15:49):
small steps that you talk about that started to get
you to emerge from that place? Well, there's you know,
there's so many things, and it's not just one thing,
like there's so many different things that now I implement
into my daily you know wellness. But at the time,
I think it was attempting to see that I had

(16:13):
value beyond the value that I was putting on myself.
That's been a real struggle because for a lot of
my pathway through mental health. I haven't valued and have
not seen the worth that I can bring. So that's
been a huge one. Do you know why, Like, do
you know where it came from those feelings?

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Not really no.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
You know, obviously, with dealing with depression and things like that,
there's a genetic component to that. You know, predisposition to
things like like depression. So there's there's that element, But
then there's there's also I guess you know, some of
the experiences and stresses that I have experienced. I guess

(16:58):
that have Yeah, Who've just wired my brain that way?
So and that's where to me, sport has actually played
an incredibly important part because at times when I was
in the depths of you know, dealing with those mental demons,
sport for me was the place that I knew that
I had value and I knew that I could bring

(17:20):
something to the table, and that my team at times
the only place that I felt like I would be
missed if I wasn't to show up, you know, thinking that, oh,
but my teammates need me this weekend. So that for
me was initially something that was so so important to
be able to maintain.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
And I know that throughout you know.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Sort of two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,
twenty ten. Even though two thousand and nine for US
was a winning premiership at the Vixens, it was that
was a really tough time for the team but also
the staff to try and manage me through that. And
initially when I was diagnosed, they said, you should take

(18:02):
some time off. It's like you've got a broken leg
and you need time to heal. But that wasn't an
option for me because I that was at the time
the only reason why I was getting out of bed,
and it was the only place that I felt like
I would be missed. It's fascinating because Natalie Medhurst came
on in season one and she said something really similar, like, no,

(18:24):
I want to keep playing and you're telling me you
know I shouldn't. Is is you know, the worst case
scenario because that would make me not want to come
forward the next time. Is that kind of how you
felt as well? Firstly, I guess it's there's a there's
an element of feeling like you can't take that away
from me. If I flip that around now, I would

(18:45):
think I'm so grateful that I've got this, like you know,
and use that positive language of you know, the gratitude
and the you know, whereas when you're in that mind frame,
it's you can't take that away from me like it was. Yeah,
I think the ramifications of if I had have been
forced to take time off would have been extreme for me. Yeah,

(19:10):
But in saying that, I do on the flip side
and understand how difficult it must have been, Yeah, for
my teammates and for the staff to try and manage
me through that time because I was you know, we
talk about high performance behaviors and things like that, and
I wasn't living up to what the standards of the
team were. And I understand that now. At the time,

(19:33):
I probably didn't think that I was behaving in a
way that wasn't. But yeah, in hindsight, there was definitely
things that. Yeah, even just the way that I was,
you know, you talk about that white line fever, being
able to rock up to training and you know, leave
your shit at the door and.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Come to training and bring everything.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
There was I guess, just a haze that I was
operating under even though I was still there. So did
your teammates know the full extent of what you were
going through? I told them yeah, And I wanted to
do that because I initially I thought, if I do
have to take time off, then they should know why.

(20:17):
I wanted them to have an understanding of what was
going on for me. But then I also kind of
selfishly thought that, well, if people are aware, then potentially
they can help and they might be able to help me.
And this is where I think across the last kind
of ten or so years, the attitudes and things have
changed so much because initially, when I sat down and

(20:39):
told all my teammates and I said to them, I
don't want you stepping on eggshells around me. Don't not
yell at me because I have dropped that ball. You know,
I still want you to behave the way that you
normally would. I don't want you to sugarcoat things for me,
but I also think you need the context of how
I'm doing at the moment, and I'm not doing great.

(21:00):
I remember after it literally felt like I had bared
my soul to them when I told them what I
was dealing with. And I think I got a text
message from one of my teammates and it was barely
ever spoken about again. And I think at the time
that may that fed into the narrative of nobody cares.

(21:22):
You know, look, you've told them all this, you've showed
them everything, and they're still not reaching out or helping
or doing anything. But that also, what I've come to
understand is that it's at the time, it wasn't from
a lack of caring.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
They do and they did care.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
At the time, it was from a lack of knowing
how and not knowing or having the language or the tools.
And I think a lot of them felt awkward. Do
I talk about it, Don't I talk about it? I
don't know, fear of saying the wrong thing. Yeah, And
so it kind of we just kind of carried on.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
So for me earlier asked about you know, why have
you come forward and kind of been so open about it?
And that is one of the other things to me,
I go out and do mental health talks now, and
I say, look like, come up and have that awkward
conversation with me now, because the next time somebody needs
you to have that conversation, you will have dealt with
some of that awkwardness. You will have figured out that

(22:22):
worked or that didn't work, and you will be better
at being that help or that support person for the
next person that needs you.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
That's huge.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
So did you tell them in a group, did you
stand up in front of the group and this is
a Vixens or Diamonds or both or Vixen's. Yeah, it
was a room upstairs at the State Network Hockey Center
after training one night. So yeah, And that's what I
mean about the attitudes and the way that we talk
about it. People have got the language to understand and

(22:51):
to check in with people, and you know, even for
people that are trying to help. Some of the best
people for me actually never talked about it, but they
held me accountable to getting out of the house. Or
you know, a friend of a friend of mine, she
would say, Katie, you're coming over for dinner tonight and
I'd ring her up and say, oh no, I've got

(23:12):
something else on. Or she read through my bullshit like
anything and she say, now you're here like starting at
five o'clock. See then, So without even talking to me
about any of it, she got me out of the house.
She had me interacting with others, and that was some
of the best. The best things for me was, you know,

(23:35):
I had other people that I was opening up to
and that I was talking to it a bit with
so to have somebody who actually just you know, was
calling me out on my bullshit or was getting me
out of the house, that was super, super important too,
because all the while you're the superstar on the netball court,
you know, like I say, Diamonds Vixen's, and you're producing

(23:58):
and consistently producing as well. Is that part of it
that what we see as mental health is not what
it actually is. You know, what we think it's going
to be is not how it actually presents itself. You
can keep performing, you can be a superstar. You can
be under the spotlight and behind closed doors not well
at all. I think that's something that I still shock myself,

(24:23):
I think a bit with how at times I have
been in incredibly poor mental health and still being able
to get out there do my job and do it
really well.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
My ability to compartmentalize, I think has been an amazing
tool that I've been able to kind of put things
aside and get out there and do what is required
of me, what my teammates need of me, what I
see in the moment. Dealing with pressure situations, all of
that kind of stuff, and managing anxiety through that is

(24:58):
a whole nother thing as well, because the anxiety, this
physical symptoms and things of anxiety are probably a bit
more acute. I would say, I think if I'm in
a place of depression, I'm able to still step out
there and do my job and kind of have that
white line fever of whatever else is happening out there.
I can step on the court and I think I've

(25:20):
used the language before. I've been able to put my
Superman cap on or whatever and get out there and
do it. But the anxiety stuff, I think is a
bit different because it does physically affect your heart rate,
the way that you're taking in information from your eyesight,
your hands shape, you know. And I have had games

(25:41):
before when I have been so anxious my pupils dilate,
like it's where I've burnt up so much nervous energy
before the warm up and so I'm almost faint by
the time the game starts, you know, the game that
I can recall that from happening. I was lying down
doing breathing exercises in the change room before the game,

(26:04):
and I was on the bench. I wasn't even playing.
So the level of anxiety of how that affected me
without even actually getting out stepping on the court. But
I think the other aspect around that has been the
incredible way and Lisa Alexander has taken a leading role

(26:25):
within Netpal Australia to be able to not ride me off.
I think a lot of coaches or a lot of
people within organizations would think that it's too hard basket
and we can't rely on we can't trust that player
at this time because of all of these things. Whereas
to me, Lisa's ability to understand and know her players,

(26:49):
to know me and also to an extent not know
what's going on with me too, because there's the fear
that if if you divulge and tell everything to the coachable,
then they're going to use that and not put you
out on the court. And for so much of my career,
my Diamond's career, I've been fighting to get out on
the court. So there's been an element of well, no,

(27:12):
I don't want them to know that I'm in poor
mental health because if that's going to be the decision,
the deciding factor over whether they put me out there
or not, I've been fighting my whole.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Career to get out there.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
So for the trust within the system of her staff.
So Angie Bain, she's the wellbeing officer that we had
at the Diamonds and then AFLP a stollar away from us,
now does come up a lot. She's a good woman,
she's incredible. I might need to get her on one day. Yeah,
you do the trust that Lisa had within her staff

(27:47):
and you know, within Angie to be able to say, yes,
we will come and let you know if things are
getting to a point where you need to know, but
at the moment, they're under control. And I think we
had a traffic light system where it was green, absolutely
fine and ready to go. Amber is dealing with some stuff,
but we're on top of it, and read was okay.

(28:09):
We might need to let you know or just mind
your language or your attitude around that player because they've
got a lot, a lot happening at the moment. So
how proud are you that you've been able to help
change the narrative, particularly in netball, but also in broader
sport as well, because I mean, you know, traffic light systems,
those sort of things like as you say, when you

(28:31):
first were diagnosed, you were barely even aware of these
sort of things, let alone the sport, sporting environment, being
embracing of it. Yeah, I think the sport has evolved
and I have evolved with it as well, and even
in terms of the way that I can speak about
it and the coping mechanisms and things that I have

(28:52):
the ability to do now. But I think that's been
a mutual thing for us as well. I mean, the
AIS held an education seminar type thing and we used
Netbule used and put forward my case study. I guess
as a part of you know, what the sport is doing,

(29:14):
and so to actually have me on board and have
me present and be a part of the pitch at
a all of the sports education type thing that's beneficial
for the sports, beneficial for other sports, you know, all
of those types of things, I think has been really helpful.
And even amongst teammates and things like that too. Know
of other athletes who are dealing with things who've not

(29:37):
necessarily come to me, but I think having had open
and honest and vulnerable conversations and been okay with that,
they've seen that actually the reaction to Caitlin hasn't actually
been as bad as what I thought.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
So maybe it's okay if I let a few people.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
In that's an amazing legacy. I mean, I feel like
as you get further away from your netball career and
you reflect on it, I feel like that's almost going
to be as powerful, if not more, as what you
did on the court. Like that's a pretty cool thing
to have been a part of. It is. And I
think at the final Diamonds dinner when I had just retired,

(30:13):
Cathcox actually asked me, like, what do you hope to
be remembered for? And I kind of said, because I
do spend a lot of time investing in the community
and mental health advocacy and all of these other things.
Like I kind of said, well, I hope people remember
that I was a bloody good player too, because it's.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
You know, and that stuff I am.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, I am super proud of but yeah, there's the
sporting element too, and I.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Hope people remember that.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
We definitely do. We definitely do. You're listening to ordinarily
speaking with netball champion Caitlyn Thwaites, So you talk about
last year, tell me what is the compounding effect of
COVID on somebody who is already dealing with pre existing

(31:02):
mental health issues? Pretty huge? One of the best ways
to describe it is the fact that and this is
athletes in general like to be in control and like
to know and have a plan about everything, and so
obviously the uncertainty of what COVID brought into our world
it shook things up, you know, it really really shook

(31:25):
things up. So feeling like you knew everything that was happening,
even to the extent of not knowing the start date
of the season or if we're going to have a season,
to not know what training phase we were in. I
think we probably did three phases of conditioning. We really conditioned,

(31:47):
which I hated. That's my least favorite part of part
of training. But it probably actually helped me out a
bit because I ended up changing positions along the way,
so being able to do that extra run and conditioning
stuff was helpful. But in saying that, I think initially
for me, I struggled and it fed into some of

(32:12):
my depressive behaviors because it took away a lot of
the coping mechanisms and the coping things that I would
put in place if I was struggling mentally, things like
making sure I get out of the house and meet
up with someone early in the morning, so that I
can have a productive day. That was no longer an option.
Even the motivation around training. For me, I've not really

(32:35):
been a self motivator A lot of the time. It's
because my teammates are relying on me, and I need
to be there and do this session and you know,
and run my body hardest because I've got somebody who's
right up my backside. You know. I'm more of an
external motivator. So to then have the ability to train

(32:57):
with your teammates taken away. That was in itself as well.
Just so many things that normally I would if I
was feeling stressed to go out and get an extra massage.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
We had no access to that stuff.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Some of the self care things me not being able
to get out of the house is a big one.
So being in that lockdown, not able to have other
people around me. I did struggle initially. There was a
period of time where it wasn't you know, I would
leave it until five pm and the sun's going down,

(33:32):
and then I would go, oh my god, I haven't
done that running session we're meant to do.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
So I think a lot of those things for me,
I found really hard to have to adapt and to
a certain extent, I was proud of the fact that
I had kind of gone, oh, look, I do have
all these coping strategies, and I don't even realize that
I do them anymore. But then all of them had
been taken away because of the lockdown, because of we
weren't allowed to train together, because.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Of all of these things.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
To have to adapt to all of that was really tricky,
and I think the best way of describing I guess
how much stress or stress aws I can kind.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Of deal with.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I feel like, if I've got a couple of areas
of my life that are really balanced and strong, if
shit hits the fan in one of those areas, then
I've still got these other things that are keeping me balanced.
But there was so much that was being thrown off
kilter because of COVID. What was your reaction when you
first got the phone call about we're going to go

(34:32):
into a hub environment away from Melbourne. I'm not sure
when we're we back. What was your reaction to that?
So that happened for us, We were standing in a
very big, socially distanced circle after a training session, and
my initial reaction as.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Soon as I.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Thought that that was what was being said. I burst
out into tears because it had only been a month
prior that my dad had been diagnosed with multiple my loma,
so rare blood cancer, and also amyloidosis, which is a

(35:18):
rare disease that we at the time had no idea about.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
And I'll make doctor Google tell you not to do that,
and that.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Was a lesson, don't do that. That was another element
for me that was the most incredibly difficult thing to
try to get through this season and going into a
hub finding out that news for me, and even though
at the time we thought that it might have only

(35:50):
been seven weeks or nine weeks or whatever it was,
that to me was deciding potentially, if I go away,
I might not have seen my dad again. There was
so many different complications and things that he was dealing

(36:12):
with that I guess the amyloidosis is a build up
of a certain type of protein that attacks the function
of your organs, and Dad had that of the lungs,
the kidneys, and the heart, so his kidneys weren't functioning.

(36:33):
He was having He's continued to have to have, you know,
two leaders of fluid drained from his lungs every four
weeks or so for the last however long, he's had
heart attacks where Mum had driven him to the hospital
and managed to get him there just into the emergency

(36:54):
room as he had a heart attack, and then because
of COVID, they wouldn't let Mom through the doors. So
dealing with all of that, and you know, the treatment
of what Dad was going through, He's not once had
somebody being able to sit with him while he's going
through his chemo treatment, and even throughout COVID because of

(37:17):
the compromised immune system, there were periods of time even
when we weren't in lockdown that as a family we
decided it was safer not to go and see him.
So finding out that we had to go away was
one of the hardest things for me to try and
decide if I if I was going to do it.

(37:39):
And and the way, the way that I justified that
and got it around in my head was that if I,
if I got on the plane and I went, I
could still come home. And and that was in as
hard as it was to not be in Victoria and

(38:00):
not be here while the severity of the lockdown was happening,
a saving grace for me was not having to quarantine
upon return, so if anything was to happen.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I could get back straight away.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
If that option and we had to quarantine upon return
to Victoria was taken off the table, I would have
one hundred percent come home straight away, just because of
the borders. Getting on the plane for me was I
didn't think. I did not think I would last the

(38:33):
entire season being up there. I broke it down and thought,
if I get through one week of quarantine and I
have to come home, then that's that's what I have
to do. But having my family also been such an
incredible support for me throughout my whole career that they
wanted me to go. They wanted me to do my best.
They wanted me to know to live my life and

(38:56):
do those things. And the joy and the distraction that
it brought for them given what they were going through,
was something as well that was a silver lining that,
you know, that held me in the positive mind frame
of yes, I'm still doing something to help them. Did
you talk to your dad about the decision to go?

(39:16):
Did you know what? Did he say?

Speaker 2 (39:19):
He wanted me to go?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, it he's he's been there for so much of
my career and not to have him there for any
of the season this year.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Obviously that was a tricky one.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
But even if we were allowed to travel, Dad wouldn't
have been able to travel. You know. I was on
the phone to them every day. You know, we had
zoom catch ups with the family and trivia nights and
all the sorts of things that we we could try
and to spend time together and be there. But I
think having you know, talk about the coping mechanisms and
things that I've learned along the way, and prior to

(39:57):
some of the big tournaments that we played, we would
have a parent some partner education program in order for
them to kind of, you know, feel more a part
of it, understand what we were going through and best
ways for them to support us. But one of the
best things that came out of that for me that
I've utilized has been having some tough conversations with the
family about if something happens, I don't want you to

(40:21):
keep it from me, like That's that was the biggest,
you know, the biggest one of the biggest things was
I didn't want my mind to be going to Dad's
in hospital again and he's dealt with this, and you know,
Mum and Dad are hiding things they don't want to
tell me because they don't want me to know like
I needed, because my brain would actually go ten steps

(40:41):
down the line as to how bad he was in
comparison to if they actually just told me, told me
front up. Then I knew having conversations like that prior
to going and making sure that that was the way
that I wanted things to be communicated, and that would work,
you know, really effectively for us.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
But you know, throughout.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Hub life there were multiple times where you know, Dad
was back in hospital and things hadn't gone so great,
and Mum was at home by herself and the rest
of the family can't go and go and see her
or support her either. So it's one of the hardest things,
apart from getting myself out of the depth of depression,

(41:25):
for me, last year was the hardest thing I'm about.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
To go through.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Where is he now? What's the situation now with his dad?
So he is still going through various different treatments. He's
being treated as an outpatient, which is amazing, and even
just the benefits of acting him actually being in Bendigo

(41:58):
in a country town was also very comforting to have
him away from the bulk of what COVID was doing,
especially given how much he was having to be in
and out of hospitals. He's managing at the moment. So
he's got, you know, two or three days where he's
being treated for different things and having to go into

(42:20):
the hospital and have his chemo on a Tuesday and
his amyloid treatment on a Wednesday. And you know, the
amount of specialists that he's been collecting that are a
part of his treatment team, it's pretty it's pretty impressive, yeah,
to see them and the team work that is required

(42:43):
in that for his treatments. So getting home from the
hub and dealing with all that we had to deal
with in terms of the season.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
I got home off the.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Plane and because there were regional restrictions at that point
in time, so I had to have exebs from government
to be able to fly back into Victoria and drive
to drive up to Bendigo to see Mom and dad
straight away after returning home. Even dealing with things like that,
we were looking at do I fly to Canberra, Do

(43:16):
I fly to Adelaide and then get in a car
and drive, you know, the logistics around getting me home
to be able to see my family. Obviously that's what
we managed and dealt with, but those were things that
were very stressful. What was it like when you did
get to see you smile, when you got to see

(43:37):
him that first time after the hub. Well, it's been
so difficult because you all, the first thing you want
to do is give them a big hug.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
You can't.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
So yeah, there's I mean, wearing masks and not being
allowed to touch. We've even had times when we've gone
back to Bendigo and we've stayed in a hotel because
it's not been okay for us, you know, to stay
in the house, And we've had picnic in the backyard

(44:08):
across opposite sides of the backyard because we didn't even
want to be in the house to be able to
spend time with Mum and Dad. So, you know, all
of those things over the last little while have been
incredibly difficult. But I've just been so grateful that we've
been able to have the time that we've been able

(44:28):
to have since returning from from the season and being
able to play out the season and have the ending
that we had given everything that we dealt with, and
I literally said to Dad, if the final gets close,
Dad can you please leave the room and turn this
out off because I don't want to be the reason

(44:50):
that you've had another heart attack and ended up in
the hospital.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah. So there's.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
All of that kind of going on as well as
dealing with everything that we were dealing with, and I
guess in terms of the mental health side of things
as well. For me, I talk about those areas of
your life that if one area kind of goes off kilter.
Every area of my life was off kilter this last

(45:18):
year due to COVID, due to family. I'm so proud
of the fact that I've been able to cope, to
be able to get through all of it, and to
have had the support around me that's enabled me to
do that. You should have been pretty proud. Oh you

(45:38):
got me cry the whole way through.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Sorry, I apologize.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
You speak of the final I mean when you talk
about everything that you're going through and everything that the
team went through as well, because even without all the
extra stuff is such a huge challenge being away from
home for that long and winning it. You know, a
miss here. What did that moment mean to you? Hey?
And once again you smile when I bring it up.

(46:06):
What did that moment mean, there had been so much
that we had gone through, and I think the period
of time that I think we were in.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
The fight or flight mode response.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
You know, the cycle of even getting us out of
Victoria in the first place was incredibly stressful.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
You know.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
But by the way, you've taken seventy percent pay cuts
along the way to make to ensure the fact that
the sport is actually keep going, and then midway through
the season for me deciding that I was going to
hang up the net burners. So that was another factor
that kind of I had to deal with. The rollercoaster
of emotions around retirement. Not being able to have my

(46:50):
family there was a huge thing. But I've got a
cousin that lives up in Queensland and she actually printed
off all of the faces of my immediate family, had
them on little sticks in the crowd before the game.
Looking up in the crowd and seeing that it nearly
set me off, and then I had to go, no,
don't look at that, You've got a job to do.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
So the pressures, I think of all of that, everything
that we had thrown at us, it was a pretty
huge effort. So you have retired and you've recently announced
that you are pregnant. Congratulations. Thanks, It's a pretty exciting
chapter ahead for you. It is, you know, dealing with
the transition into retirement. I think was going to be

(47:33):
an adjustment and probably a difficult one, and decided to
throw the adjustment and transition into motherhood and parenthood as well.
We're really excited and very grateful that that has, you know,
has happened for us. And you know, we've seen so
many netballers and even you know recently Chelsea who's come

(47:55):
out and explained, you know, the difficult teas that she's
faced as a female athlete dealing with fertility. And I'm
very mindful, you know, and very grateful that of the
way that this has happened for us, and we're really
looking forward to it. But we're also you know, feeling
for those that struggle. So when's your dad say when

(48:18):
you told him? Actually, I wrapped up a little ball
of wool and gave it to mum. The card had
on it saying Nana, can you please knit me a
rug because it's going to be cold when I come
out in July.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
We told them quite early.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
We did that on purpose because we felt the family
just needed some positivity and something to focus on.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
To move forward.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
So yeah, I can't wait to see my dad with
my baby's He's so incredible with children, So.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, it would be a really nice moment.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Yep, that's yeah, that's that's the aim.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
So we've got to have all of that positivity and
channel it into into getting getting him to be there
in the next little while. So I know it's really important.
You just mentioned how rare it is the condition that
he has. How if people are listening, how can they
help for those who are who are dealing with that. So,

(49:27):
because it is really rare, it doesn't doesn't even have
its own foundation or anything like that, so it actually
falls under the Leukemia Foundation, which deals with a lot
of the rare blood diseases. And you know, this is
the first time that I've spoken about it publicly and
being mindful of not wanting to put extra attention or

(49:48):
pressure or anything like that on the family, but I
kind of I got back from the hub and thought, great,
I'm going to go out and run a half marathon
or a marathon or something to to raise money research
for this, and yeah, and then pregnancy, how the other
ideas about doing that, But Yeah, the Leukemia Foundation do

(50:09):
a lot of great work that filters money through to
research for for amyloidosis and also obviously the multiple myeloma.
So if yeah, if there was anybody that can spare
some money at a time like this during COVID and
we know that everybody's doing it super tough, but yeah,
if people wanted to donate, the Leukemia Foundation would be

(50:32):
a great one. How's your dad's approach been to it?
And I guess does does he inspire you the way
that's he's handling what he's going through. I don't think
I've heard a complaint out of his mouth. You know
how hard it's been, or whether he's not feeling well.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
He just doesn't show it.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
It's been quite tough to see the physical aspects, the
weight loss that has kind of occurred, to the treatments
and things, the fact that he's at times he's not
even been able to walk, you know, five or ten
meters without having to stop because he can't breathe. His

(51:13):
muscles aren't getting the energy that they need to be there,
and to see it is a whole different thing to
have mom and Dad tell you on the phone the difficulties.
But you know, Mum's been training for this her whole
life too. She's been a nurse for forty odd years,
so she's doing an incredibly great job at being there

(51:36):
for dad too. So to see the way that Dad
has coped and he's taking everything in his stride as
much as you know, I can't imagine how lonely it
would be at times being in the hospital, not knowing,
not being able to have anybody come and visit you
throughout COVID. It's, I guess, been torture at times for

(51:57):
the rest of us as a family to know how
to help when in the middle of a pandemic. At
times we've been the ones that have been the risk
to him, and none of us would forgive ourselves if
we were to have taken, you know, taken COVID from
the lives that we live, into his house, into his

(52:18):
his environment that could potentially have been fatal. It's been
a really tricky and difficult time to navigate. Yeah, the
strength that they have shown has has flowed on for
the ability for me to have done what I've done
last year, and I'm just so grateful for their strength
and and I love them. Sounds like you've got some

(52:41):
pretty ideal role models.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
For Bob yep.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah that's that's not discounting the Kiwi side as.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Well, and that's your partner.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah yeah, my partner and his Kiwi family. We haven't
been back for a long time to go and visit
and see them. So the support that Adam has given
me throughout this time as well and my family has
been immense. Thank you so much. I mean, we've just
cried through this last hour together. But I appreciate your

(53:11):
honesty so much and I think you are spot on
when you hear people talk about it. It really does
help with whoever's personal journey it is, so I applaud
your strength and you have every right to be proud
of yourself for what you got through last year, and
I can't wait to see how you navigate your way
through the next fun challenge ahead. So thank you so much. Thanks,

(53:33):
And I think for anybody that knows me knows that
I'm an emotional person. So if you've tuned into this
and weren't expecting a few tears, then I'm gonna call
you out to say you don't know me.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Well, I love it.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Congratulations again as well, Thank you, thanks so much. Time.
Thanks for listening to this episode. Of ordinarily speaking, I
wish Caitlin and her family all the best in the
joys and challenges to come. If you want to donate,
head to leukemia dot org dot AU. If this chat

(54:09):
was triggering for you, please ask for help. Lifeline and
Beyond Blue are just a couple of places you can go.
Thanks again for listening. A new episode will drop on Wednesday.
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