Greg Hire - Ordineroli Speaking

#OrdineroliSpeaking Greg Hire is a recently retired four-time NBL Champion with the Perth Wildcats, having overcome significant adversity in his life. In this episode, Greg reflects on his challenging upbringing, his strained and complex relationship with his father and what it means to be a man. This is a powerful and raw episode - if it is triggering for you, please know there is help out there.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Ordinarily Speaking, you see a two hundred and forty three
game veteran, four time champion of the Perth Wildcats who
you don't see sub abuse, domestic violence, and an adult
without a childhood time.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, and welcome to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. I'm
narrowly meadows. Today's guest is Greg Higher. Greg is a
recently retired champion of the National Basketball League, having won
four titles with the Perth Wildcats. What he has achieved
is astonishing given what he has overcome in life. A
self described troubled team, Greg was going down a destructive

(00:51):
path but managed to turn his life around. This is
a story of unbelievable resilience as Greg explores what it
means to be a man. Please know this chat discusses
some very serious issues. If it is triggering for you,
please know there is help out there beyond blue dot org,
dot AU, Lifeline one three, double one, one four or

(01:14):
one eight hundred, respect I just a couple of places
you can go. I thank Greg for his candor and
I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks for joining

(01:36):
me on your podcast, Greg. I wanted to start by
asking you, in the broader context of your life. What
has basketball meant to you?

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I think it's everything really from my livelihood now with
raising two beautiful children of my amazing wife. Basketball was
a thing that brought us together in a weird way,
like we were in the same grassroots organization. It's made
me who I am in terms of what I do
now off the court. Without the profile of a purf

(02:09):
Walkeets player, full time NBL champion, I don't think would
be in a position to be able to deliver the
workshops that we're doing now in Western Australia. And I
think it's as a troubled team. As an adolescent, basketball
was that sort of sanctuary as a sixteen seventeen year
old kid really struggling with life. That was that one

(02:31):
thing that was constant in a weird way at that time.
As a sixteen year old kid, I didn't really look
at it going oh, basketball was going to teach me
these valuable life lessons in terms of how to deal
with plenty of challenges in your life. But I knew
that one thing was always going to remain constant. I
was going to have a coach that cared for me.
I had some peers that would Jerry Thing in their

(02:52):
power to make sure that I was okay, and then
I was able to get on the court and escape
for whatever that time was. Knowing that I had an
hour an hour and a half that whatever was going
on in my life, you know, I could just focus
on the game of basketball, something that I love doing.
And I think, moving past, you know, down the track

(03:12):
ten years later, that remained constant whilst there was maybe
things happening around my life. I think that sort of
dictated the way I played. Quite emotional, maybe a bit
aggressive at times, definitely aggressive, but yeah, it was that
moment that I could get on the court and put
it everything that was happening in my life on the
court as well.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I spoke to your brother in law and best mate
and best man, Brad Robbins, and it's interesting that you
just said it that way because he said, as your
teammate at the Perth Wildcats, it was every rebound, every
loose ball was actually almost you saying I'm not going
to end up like that.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
That's not going to be me.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Is that a fair assessment?

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah? I think I had this massive chip on my
shoulder my whole career, just even the standpoint of when
I was a development player. There was no even coming
up from WI. I was cut like and it's not
that Michael Jordan, absolutely no doubt, like high school career
and then come back, and I would have loved the salary.
But I remember starting and I thought I'd be given
a gig and then getting my first professional contract. It

(04:16):
was six thousand dollars for the season worked out being
three dollars twenty an hour. But I loved it. I
love that environment, but it was that no one expected it.
I felt like every opportunity was for me to stake
a claim. It wasn't about me getting more minutes. It
was about me keeping my spot on the team. And
even six years later vice captain, I still felt like
every single game was an opportunity to prove myself.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
And was that symbolic of how you were brought up
as well and representative of that the way you played.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I think so. My style wasn't pretty like I
can say that, And you know I had a few
moments now retired Matt Neilson, huge mentor of mine. You know,
once you retire and you have those moments where you
sitting down and you share a few red wines or
you know, sitting on the boat, you know mad Mondays,

(05:05):
and you have that reflection, those real special pieces, and
you sort of look back at those games where not
only did they change the game, they sort of changed
the season. You know. Then there's a few things I
look back at. One game, I was literally I slept
for two hours over two days, like I was so sick,
Like I remember the only food that I could eat.
I was staying at a Melbourne hotel. I ate these

(05:27):
giant chocolate freckles to cost twelve dollars fifty play room service.
But yeah, and I had no sleep, I had no energy.
I remembered like thinking I just can't, like there's no
way I can play.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
And I got on stomach barg Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
It was like I don't know what it was. And yeah,
I literally like slept. I finally got sleep like thirty
minutes before we left, and I was like said to
dam I just get me up and I'll have a
shower and I'll get to the game. And still like
I was like just couldn't move. And I went through
my Sammy return. I hit three threes as soon as
I got on the core, broke the game open. And
that was like this, we sort of separate ourselves throughout

(06:04):
the pack. You know, on the eve of trying to
make the playoffs, We're down by eight points against Adelaide
my last season, where I had announced my retirement and
I'm about to get a screen. I see Harry Frowling,
a youngster from Adelaide thirty six's and he's setting the
screen and I was actually livid that I hadn't been
given the court time to get on the court, and
I literally was just like screwed. There's a moment in

(06:27):
this game that we could you know, I can run
with this and I can set the tone and just
sort of be like, you know, I'm not going to
back down. I'm going to sort of make a statement
We're not taking any shit. And I did it, and
in doing so, I smashed my ac joint. You know,
for the last eight weeks of my career, I was
getting jabs time. I'm still struggling with it now, like
before games, just to be able to play. But it

(06:50):
was that moment where I just ran through Harry, then
ran through Harry again, and the crowd got up off
their feet. Things would going on berserk, and we ran
with it. We changed our seats and we stealed a
playoff spot and we end up winning a championship. And
there's those moments that they're not pretty. Everything was hard,
Like I look at back at and I think that's
why I appreciate you know, every single person, and by

(07:12):
us yourself, Like what's those moments in your life that
he cherishes, the things that you work so extremely hard
for that you never really were expected to achieve. And
I think that's been my life. I look back as
a youngster, I couldn't dribble basketball, like I literally had
to go see a specialists because I had poor hand
eye coordination. They might say I still have poor hand
ole coordination as a professional athlete, but like even then,

(07:34):
I remembered like I had to go these classes in
a random place and morlly it was like you go upstairs.
It was a warehouse and they would throw me the
ball and I still remember vividly now like they would
throw me the ball, the ball drop, I'd clap and
that was me. Like this intensive course for six months,
Like that was me?

Speaker 2 (07:53):
How old were I was.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Like yeah, literally four or five? Like yeah, And so
even for two years I kept going like to what
that is my motor skills were so underdeveloped, Like I
mean I look at my two children now and my
little fellow's going around and shooting, and you know I
look at other kids like they're riding bikes. Yeah, my
motor skills were so poor. It was like a point

(08:15):
where they were like okay, my parents are like yeah,
they've identified this, and being my mum being Eastern European,
it's still not even like that was like you know
that scope, what where do you go out and see support?
So it was just randomly like a doctor's like, yeah,
I think he's a bit behind. And it's bizarre that
that's in the in the app. That was my makeshift.
Like I played professional sports for ten years when I
couldn't even really catch a ball at a young as a

(08:36):
young kid.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
So let's go back to the beginning. We call you
Greg High, but that's not actually your name, is it.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, so if you spoke to Brad Robins, I'm sure
you would have loved this. Yeah, so my name's Gergelay
High and one more time, Gerglay Higher. Now in Hungarian
it's Gergay And obviously you can expect that when you're
in primary school. Primarily like kids ruthless and so obviously
say there there's two words, and obviously we're progressive as

(09:05):
a community. But people are like are just like saying
that all the time, or I would get scared. You know,
the Royal Corps first day and it's like, you know,
h's in the middle of the names and they're coming.
I would like put up my hand like, yeah, that's
me before my name's even being announced, because like I
knew they would, yeah, wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Just reflecting on it. It's like you've got a school.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
I know. And it's even now like I'll get out
my license and people were like, oh, like something and
they'll look at me and then like they're like, I'm like, yeah,
it's my real name. I'm Hungarian. So yeah, quite quite interesting. Greg,
It's just like this Aussie like, yeah, no worries, but yeah,
that was going up. Was a bit unique, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Your parents were illegal immigrants.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Crazy story. They immigrated from Hungary. Obviously back then it
was a case of you know, there wasn't the come
in here visa laws like whatever. It was literally process
they want to leave the country. They were still reeling
from World War two, the effects like everything, you know,
the country was so behind the times and they sort
of said, all right, here's a deal. Immigrant to Canada,

(10:12):
you'll be fine, or immigrate to Perth and Australia. Basically
similar situations were in Perth. You'll just have to stay
in a community for a month where basically all immigrants
will come across, which was the KGB which is known
as Condola, Grouine and Bouga. And so that was me.
I'm a proud KGB boy and it was the best
time of my life because you can imagine there were

(10:33):
so many kids in the same similar situation. My mum's
job was a babysitter, Like I literally remember being in
this home in Balga, massive home, and the brutal thing
was was like we would have all these families and
then a month they would just move on. So I'd
have a best mate for a week and then there'll
be another new lot of kids and whatever it may be.
But I didn't know the circumstances until being on a

(10:57):
road trip and so my very first year I was
getting on the road quite a bit. We didn't We
suffered a few injuries and Matt Knight unfortunately suffers a
few concussions and got knocked out one game and I'm in.
I got brought up to Sydney as an injury replacement,
and literally yeah at those times, like as a developed player,
the only good thing about getting on the road was
obviously being part of the team. But I got paid

(11:19):
an extra one thousand dollars. My salary was six grand,
so like you're.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Like, chicken Den, we're rolling here.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
So yes, I got there and Maddie gets knocked out
like the second quarter, and it was the first game
of a three game road trip, and I just went, oh, no,
Like they're going to ask me and I don't have
my passport, and their professional athlete old standards like just
be ready for everything, be ready for the unexpected, and
literally as certain if the game gets done or beverage
taps me. Is like, mate, we're going to bring you

(11:47):
to New Zealand and then Ilwarra. So first thing, he's like,
you know, I'm I thinking there's an extra two grand. Awesome,
But then he's like, do you have your passport? And
I'm like nah, So I'm trying to get my passport arranged.
They're literally gonna fly someone to bring it in the morning,
like drop it off and then find New Zealand. So
I was stuck in Sydney. I went to the embassy.

(12:08):
The very first few things I said, idea of birth certificate, perfect, yep,
got that, and then they go, do you have your
your parents' citizenship papers? And so I was like yeah, awesome.
So I called my mom up and she's literally like, yeah,
like I've got your birth certificate, but I don't have
any citizenship papers. And I was like what do you
mean and she's like, literally, yeah, we were legal immigrants.

(12:31):
And I was like, you are joking?

Speaker 2 (12:33):
And how old were you when you found that out?

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Twenty three twenty four?

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, And I was just like okay, I don't know
if I should now disclosing up. My mom doesn't get deported,
but you know, but like I yeah, and I for
a moment there, I was like, holy crap, like that's
so bizarre, like that had sort of happened.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
And then was eye opening for you.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Oh absolutely, because I like, and Mum always said, but
Mum's so humble, obviously knew the scope. But I remember
even like when mum got her first car, like and
it was that very traditional like Eastern Europeans mums are
doing this, you know, like they're cooking, cleaning providers, you know,
like they're doing all that sort of stuff, whereas you know,
Dad comes in here and food's got to be on

(13:17):
the table and all that sort of stuff. And Mum
would work. I remember, like her first car had no indicators,
so she would be like hand outside the car and
then if I'm in the front seat, would ask me
to like put out a hand, and I'm like, but
I think it's the best thing in the world. But
she'd and of it, like she because she didn't have
cyiszenship papers, she couldn't get her license for years, like

(13:37):
so she was driving illegally. Like she learned English from
Jehovah's witnesses, Like she didn't know a lick of English,
and it was a case of like people knocking the door, Hey,
how a she would like get those words and then
like pick up and obviously then she would you go around,
but those just entry statements are going to shops or
like she would go to the shops to then like

(13:57):
find out what the checkout operator is saying, so then
she can understand or oh, here's milk, oh milk, you know,
like here's that, so like it was crazy like and
so yeah, end up getting the passport, but that was
just that like eye opening experience, like and I think,
how yeah, my mum never complains like it's just like
this unbelievable woman, and I think it's it's been ingrained

(14:21):
in me as well as like to do that, like
just you know, expectations like she she's still she still
works now. Most beautiful, selfless human being in the world,
most gentle soul, Yeah, pretty special.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Do you speak any Hungarian?

Speaker 1 (14:35):
I do a little bit. That The word I always
and I know this from a young age was an
yatzi kosh loveda which is I played basketball, and so
I knew that was like my go to and hot
void and is how are you and I spend a
little bit of time there. It's something I actually would
love to do. I'm not the intellect, so I don't.
I struggle with the English language a let alone trying

(14:57):
to adopt the Hungarian language as well. So but yeah,
I do. And that was the thing growing up my family,
My brother and my mom would speak it all the time,
like and especially if like I'd done something wrong, so
all I'd hear is gogee, come up, And then I'm like, oh, yeah,
I've done something. I'm in trouble here. It's a it's
a unique language.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
So you were born in Australia, right, I was born?
When did they move? It mustn't have been that.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
It was literally, well when I'm nineteen eighty seven to twenty,
so that it was nineteen eighty six, like I think
you're like, yeah, I think my mum.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
So you were on the way yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
It was like which I was born in a pm
age or Subiaco. Yeah, brother was five years so yeah,
so I was born here. Yeah, they made the move basically.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Then Wow, your life could have been different.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Oh yeah, ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Did your brother have any early memories of what Hungary
was like at the time.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, not particularly, Like they've gone back a little bit
and obviously we've got all of our family members and
a few of them have come out here. You know,
when you go to school as a young kid like
you or western eis and this is the thing, Like
I mean, if you look at my photos, we were
so like stuck out, like I remember my mum. Yeah,

(16:10):
Like my very first photos is a year one. I
was in a suit, like I was in an all white,
like smiling from from ear to ear. But I was
in in like a white shirt, white suit, white pants,
and there's like our classroom photos and obviously pretty diverse
sort of class, but like there's just me a suit
and then there's just kids in te's you know, and
like you know, like you see that like people bring

(16:31):
in like I brought in full traditional Hungary and gulash
for like you know, like introduction to country days. And
but that was the thing Mum was, you know, never
like we were so different like it was and obviously
as time Mom still went, but it.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Was like did you feel different at the time?

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Like I mean I look at them
and then even like haircuts and obviously with the name,
and at a time, like I embrace it, like I
always love being different. But then it's like sometimes, as
I said before, kids are vicious and they're ruthless, and
so you know, you have that Ozzie mentality and like

(17:11):
you know, I would go to the point where I
went like overboard. Obviously I have a lot of pride
and playing for Australia that I did last year and
those sort of experiences because it gave the life. But
to the point where then Australian tatoo like some of
that sort of anger, Yeah, like all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
You got made in Australia tattoo.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
No, I definitely don't. I'm thank god I've got one
of my best mates with the Southern Cross Stars and
I hope led him all the time, like how much
do you regret that? Never see you without your shirt on?
So yeah, but yeah, it is it will you know?
Growing up it was something that I definitely in that
way wish I could have maybe owned a little bit

(17:51):
more and embraced Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely sort.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Of aware, I guess exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
So your mum has she told you any story? Have
you ever asked her about what life was like for
her before she got to Australia.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
In a way, it was just you know, you're looking
at it from that Cold War and that Eastern European
sentiment where poverty was huge, like, and she comes from
a massive family. She had a relative that had an
intellectual disability, so she would look after them and the
family go along, and unfortunately her dad turned to alcohol

(18:27):
early in the peace just because he was trying to
provide for so much, was dealing with some mental health
conditions and in a weird way, like she didn't really
have a strong connection to her mum. She loved the dad.
She always used to say, emotional here, but I reminded
a lot of her dad, gentle, tall guy that wasn't

(18:51):
yeah it wasn't you know. You'd see this polarizing figure
and go, oh, you know, he's just going to be
this real dominant guy. So she used to always say
it me like, you always reminded me of my father,
and then he eds to be tough because she obviously
I didn't never got to meet any of my grandparents
by on my father's side. But it was, yeah, pretty

(19:11):
brutal think like even a you know, this massive role
model a life basically like in her words, in a
weird way, took his own life not at one moment,
but it turned to alcohol to then you know obviously
did that and that was pretty brutal. So thinking of
that environment, especially when my mom grew up, and how

(19:32):
she would have tried to take ownership of all responsibilities
in her life and so I know that I guess
that's why she still provides now. It's ridiculous what my
mum tries to do, even at her age. She's actually
looks after my brother's child at the moment, and my
mom's yeah sixty odd, you know, because he's in a

(19:54):
position to do that at the moment. And that's ridiculous,
Like I say to him, like she should be enjoying
the fine points of license. She's actually trying to. Yeah,
I guess raise a child like at that age when
she should be embracing grandchildren. But that's just my mom,
and she never complains, and that's pretty Yeah, it's just
amazing to think of woman like that.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
You sound like you're pretty damn proud of your mom.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I think you know. That's the one
massive regret in my life now, to be honest, and
I look at it all the time, is I don't
tell my mom how much that how much of an
influence I do. I do share what she's done for me.

(20:39):
But yeah, yeah, she's an unbelievable human being, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
So you didn't have it easy either early days your childhood.
Tell me a bit about what it was like being
you as a kid.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, I mean it's funny because you say it's not easy,
but then it's and I keep going back, it's who
I am as a As a young kid, you know,
you're trying to find your identity, identity, and you're looking
for a role model, and I didn't have that. My
parents split up at an early age, officially, but they
were separated for some time. And so when it was

(21:16):
that pivotal piece in life, that twelve or thirteen year
old age group, Mum would work away for sometimes three
to four months or should do like a fly and
flight at Rossaware. She would look after that and this
Danish royalty whoever it was, and she'd work there and
then Mum would.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Come in actually as a nanny time.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah basically, but she this lady was incapable of doing
any really bodily function. But I would actually love to
find out who she was. She owns ships and stuff
like it. But anyway, yeah, she Mum would go sometimes
in part of that because she was so successful. They
would go to Europe for three four months. I'd go
to Africa for three four months and so Mum would
be there. And so growing up it was just my

(21:55):
brother and I and we used to live in this
home in Hillary's. You know, looking back now, it was
a really destructive time because I just would never go
to school. My brother was eighteen, I was thirteen.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
So he was effectively guarded.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, and so and at that station in
his life he was getting into drugs and alcohol. You know.
We would have people over all the time. So that
was my life. I would miss school all the time,
and because again my mum was like very trustworth like
sort of trusting of us, Like even when she would
come back and get a report card and be like,
Greg's got seventy four half day absence, shit, but what

(22:33):
is that, I'm like, oh, it's NAT's incorrect. I was
sleeping on ovals like at times because I had these
massive nights and I was so ashamed and embarrassed to
go home and I knew Mum would be home. So
then like I remember one time sleeping at an oval
and sprinklers wake up some of my bed. And because
I was tall, like i'd go out for my brother
in night clubs.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
You know, and at what sort of age.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Fifteen sixteen, it was stupid, absolutely stupid, And I'd go
home and Mum would like, go know, but she'd go
just have a shower and make sure like I was okay,
putting the right things in place, But she could control
it like in a way like and I don't have
any resentment in that way, and I don't, and no
one could say, well, why did she not step in?
Like she needed to provide for the family, like that was, yeah,

(23:18):
she had to, and she just didn't see the effects
of that, and so I could have gone spiring out
of control. There's there's absolutely no doubt about that. Yeah,
Like I was doing all sorts of drugs like in
that way.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
And drugs were you taking.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Like I mean marijuana was like an easy one, but ecstasy, cocaine,
like yeah, Like it was sort of just like I'm
seeing my brother some when I look up to you know,
that's who I wanted to be. He would sell drugs.
We would reap the rewards. I would get presents, you
know why, whatever you want, I'd have a chain or xbox,

(23:54):
you know, all this sort of stuff. But then the
other side comes with it. Well you're not ready, like
as a young kid, like you know, you don't know
what that is. You're just seeing your idol. So I'm
looking at that and then going okay, well yeah who cares,
Like that's a really that's a good way of life.
Let's embrace it. But then randomly the chain that I

(24:14):
get goes missing, you know, or the Xbox that was
just PlayStation goes missing, you know, or police come in
the house, and then you're like, well, what's going on
is because well, yeah, there's no drugs are being sold,
so he's taken it back off and sold them, but
in a bad way as well. Was like my mates,
their parents then would start going, let's see, like I

(24:36):
wasn't the person that was good to hang around with,
start removing friends around from my circle, or hey, he's
not a good person to hang around with, or even
come into a house and say like, you know, Greg's
a horrible person, Like you know, that was tough, like absolutely,
because I was just like I wasn't a bad kid,
Like I wasn't a violent kid. I wasn't disrespectful, you know,

(24:58):
like I was just that that way of living that
just seemed natural to me at that time. Basketball was
that thing. It was at that stage it was this
real critical piece in my life where I wasn't picking
up that I was having destructive behavior in terms of
my own life, and I had a coach and teacher
that basically was like, what do you want to do? Like,

(25:20):
you know, do you want to play bart you want
to take it seriously? Names Benettridge and literally from that day,
like I fell asleep in physical education class, like because
of what I was doing on the weekend. And he
was like, and that's why I have such amount and
respect for teachers because he saw that and it was like,
that's not like normal behavior, Like that's his favorite Class's

(25:43):
the only class I thrived in, you know, it was fyzed.
And so he's like, okay, you're coming to school. You know,
I'm going to get you on this. I was at
that time, I think year nine or ten. So he
was like, you're going on this basketball tool with me
with all the year elevens and twelves, like I was
the only kid. Yeah, you're going to fundraise, You're going
to sell chocolates, you know, like all this sort of stuff,

(26:04):
and just installed that sort of work ethic. And then
I guess the floodgates open. I saw like, okay, maybe
I could do something about basketball, you know, and then
that's when all this other stuff will go to college.
You actually got to go attend school. And yeah, it
was that moment where you're talking of the fork in
the road. Yeah, that was that moment, falling asleep in
class pretty much. Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Did you ever get into trouble with the police when
you're in.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I actually remember this moment. It
was like a blue light disco and yeah, talking about
our age now, but I remember just being an absolute belter,
like going our brother's house lived in junele up and
smoking weed, drinking alcohol. We're all going to like the

(26:49):
blue light light later, like I was the only underage
thing that you could go to. The other people that
I was drinking with, yeah, they were like and then no,
posy shouldn't to be able to stand, like they put it.
I remember getting into a room and my mate was
like literally on a portable bed or whatever and was
like couldn't speak, you know, and that was like far out,

(27:12):
Like did I do that? If I didn't bring him
to my brother's house, that never would have happened. You know.
That was pretty frightening. I can damage myself, but I
can't get mates involved, you know. And at that time
as well, you please don't really and turn their own
like I'm not disputing that, but they were like your

(27:32):
scum of the earth, you know, like this is all
because of you. Like that was that, you know, like
I'm a young kid. My mum was away, so I
couldn't call anyone. My brother's not picking up the phone,
you know, so I'm literally there till the very end,
and I think someone In the end, I think my
mum had got like I had to come back in
from work. But it was that like moment where they
were pretty ruthless, Like you know, I just remember being

(27:55):
like interrogate, like what you know, what are you doing?
You know, like thinking I felt like a criminal, sat
there just going like what is going on? Like I
literally at the start was trying to hook up with
some chick only an hour ago to really like this going.
Now I'm in a room with a guy that can't
even speak, and police.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Are like, you know, interrogating.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, Like it was pretty daunting.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
How often were you using?

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Oh, oh, weekly, easily? Easily. My mum would work four
days a week, so on those weeks, like if I'm
staying at my brother's house, that's that's when I'm going
on drugs, whether it's smoking weed or I'd be drinking
all the time every weekend.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
How early did you start, oh, fourteen?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Maybe, yeah, even yeah, I'd say fourteen, I don't know
what year, but like near nine's and tens and then
like I'm going out. I never enjoyed childhood, you know,
like I grew up way too quick. Like I remembered
like playing in an in an under eighteen nationals and
then flying in, coming in and then going to a

(29:05):
nightclub that night and then taking a pill, whereas like
all these other kids, like you know, they're going home
and getting picked up by their parents, you know, like
they hadn't been with their family for a week. And
I was even getting asked for ID like because I
remember being in the line and just being taller than
everyone and then I'd get in and then do that
and that was my way of living. Like yeah, looking back,

(29:25):
it's like I wish I had a childhood, Like maybe
that's why I'm such a big kid. I missed that
in life.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Greg Heiher. When you
were littler. You've written before about the fact that there
was violence in your home. What sort of stuff happened?

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, again, looking at that traditional Eastern European parenting styles
instead of that do something wrong, you're going to get hit.
You know, or grab your arm and rip you through here.
And then even I remember playing basketball, It's lucky enough
I didn't hate the sport because like it was an
intimidating environment to be in. Like I remembered, my brother

(30:11):
is way better than me at basketball. He's taller, more athletic, better,
IQ had all the tools like he. I'll say this,
he's a smarter guy. Used to go to PIAC, you know,
until actually advanced all this sort of stuff. And it's
his circumstances on his own accord that's hurt him in
the long run. And for me, my recollection of playing
Baskett a young age, it was going to local basketball courts,

(30:35):
local schools and seeing like my brother and my dad
play one on one and just nothing fun from it.
It's a hard slog like every drill is like yours.
It's a workout, like every single and that was me
as a young kid, Like there was never once where
I could just go around and shoot, like you cannot
just hang out. Every single time I was playing on

(30:55):
the basketball court was to get better, and that obviously
instilled work ethic, but that was me and so even
as as a young kid like that was at home
there was no disobedience, messing like yeah, absolutely, there was love,
but it was Yeah, I got taught lessons, you know,
like stupid lessons as well. If you're not going to

(31:17):
eat spaghetti until you eat it, you're going to set
the dinner table till ten o'clock at night, and that
would happen, you know, like to the point where I'm
falling asleep, like at the dinner table, like that sort
of stuff, that parenting style. Yeah, it was tough. It's yeah,
it was, you know, it doesn't it's not stuff. I
look back with fondness and happiness and go, oh, this
is the best time of my life. There's obviously a

(31:39):
lot of a lot of great things and they stand
out more vividly because yeah, it was tough.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Were you scared of your dad?

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah. Welso I don't think he would
have never heard an individual like you know, and that
never went too far. Yeah, if there was fear, like
he'd cast fear in your eyes, knowing if you had
messed up like that was Yeah, you're going to get

(32:09):
your ass kicked if you if you stepped over the line.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
You have a look in your face right now that
you can almost see he's fast.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, I spoke. I think it's you know,
I look at everything happens for a reason. And I

(32:34):
remember yelling at my son a few months ago, like
he was a few brutal nights of sleep and really
really struggling and just frustration. I just sort of like
venting a little bit, no physical nature, just more you know, yeah,

(32:56):
as you do. And I went back into the room
and I just like was crying like for hours, and
U pont hours and I could like I felt sick
to my stomach, like.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Just because you felt you lost, just because.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
I never wanted to be that guy, you know, like
I never wanted to have that. I never wanted my
son to ever look at me like with the fear
that I ever had, you know, like that is something
I never wanted. Like and even now there's been times
like just parenting, normal stuff. But I remember, like my

(33:39):
daughter and I'm sitting there and she's like, I don't
want dad to be angry, and like that kills me,
Like it kills me because like I know how much
like I hate it, Like that's not me, and.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
It takes you back.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Fa yeah, like yeah, they're brutal times like thinking about
that like that scope.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, did you how old are you when your dad left?

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Left the numerous times, but like from that thirteen to seventeen,
like I really barely had contact, Like he was over
in Canada, had a relationship there, and then the ould
sort of speak to him and then sort of came
back in my life fifteenth but again also inconsistent. I
really don't know if there was a patch there. Well, yeah,

(34:33):
he was there every single day. Unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
How do you feel about him now?

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, a bunch of mixed emotions. Definitely the level of resentment.
I think that's obvious grateful in a way, in a
weird way because of who I am, Like I am

(35:02):
proud of of who I am, not just yeah, obviously
of the full time NBL champion, but of the human
being like the prayerent and the husband. And that's obviously
something I'm more proud about because it's something I don't
want to be like, you know, don't get me wrong,

(35:24):
Don't get me wrong, there's there's some some some things
in that you take from The good is not this monster,
but the things that that he displayed I didn't like.
I've obviously put not put in my life, but there's
obviously a level of absence. It's just so murky because

(35:49):
I don't have I don't have this relationship with my father,
and there's a part of me that goes, you know,
do I want my children to meet their grand their granddad?
You know, I'm such a family man, like with my
with my with my wife's family, Like, you know, I

(36:10):
look at that, like just went to Christmas Carols, my daughters,
you know, sitting on the lap of my grand of
her grandmom, you know, and the joy in their face
is when their granddad comes home from work and like
literally not just my kids, but all the other siblings
as well, they just run to him. And I like
look at that, like I can't wait, you know, like

(36:30):
to be that guy. So for part of me, I
feel sorry for him that he doesn't have that in
his life, Like he's missing that because you would have
to be.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Would you like to reconcile with him? Or is that
ship sailed?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
I don't know nearly. I really don't know. There's been moments,
but I'm not going to make an effort in that
in that manner, Look, I'm not a definitely don't hate
the man there's obviously I always love. Yeah, it's it's

(37:09):
a case of if someone wants something, they'll do it.
The same do with my brother. He's had so many
chances in his life to change the way his life is.
If you want to, if you can help a person
as much as they want, but if they don't want
to be helped, then there you go, you know. And

(37:30):
so it's a similar boat. You know. I would never
I don't have that much hate in my life to go, Nah,
I'll completely remove you because at the end of the day,
it's not about me. I dread the day they asked
why do I never see where's your dad to my children?
That hurts? Like that hurts? And what do I say?

(37:51):
I'll be honest, you know, this is the reasons why.
And that's tough like us that that that that hurts.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
What's your relationship like with your brother?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Yeah, and that's such a tough one now because you know,
as a you only want to help. But it's so
far gone now. I literally and I talk about hope
so much now, about mental health and having hope. I've
lost hope because he's been given so many chances to
change his life. I don't know and if he, if

(38:27):
he listens to this, he would never there would not
be a point of him go. He'd say, to screw you.
You've got all the chances. You're a professional athlete. You know,
you were lucky enough. Dad preferred you, Mum gave you
all these chances. That's just the way it's been. But
at some point you've got to then take responsibility of
your own life, you know. And the same similar situation,

(38:47):
i'd there'd be nothing more that I would love to
be able to have this family. That would be like
he's he's here's your uncle, you know, But I wouldn't
have the confidence to know if I leave him in
my own house, that's something want to go missing. And
when you become a father and a husband, no longer

(39:09):
do you think about yourself. You worry about the others
in your life and how impacted and how you can't
hide them away from anything. You know, if there's a confrontation,
I can walk away or you know I can do that.
I can't hide my children. Well, I can't hide my wife,
you know. And they're things in my life that are
the most important.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Has your wife met your brother?

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, numerous times.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Have you ever sat down with him and told him.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Oh, yeah, so many times. Yeah, And it's tough because
it's that, you know, as a brother, you sit there
and you you don't want to, but there's that point
where you just reach tipping point or your last straw,
you know. Yeah, there's been many chimes.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
And just can never get through.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Nah, exactly, I don't. It's that Nut doesn't accept that
he's doing anything wrong or yeah, taken responsibility or the avenues.
And I think it's because at the end of the day,
my mom's love for her children. He always knows he's
got a parachute, you know, if if something happens, he's

(40:14):
got someone he can rely on. And that's the thing
at the end of the day. As bad as the
sounds people might go, Wow, what a horrible human being,
sometimes it's like that case of going you needed to
spend some time in jail to see it, to be
at rock bottom, to know what truly is, you know,
and to go like I don't know what to do,
and then completely change your life. But right now it's

(40:36):
just sort of still floating. And unfortunately I worry that
I will just see, you know, I'll be I get
a message. And there's no doubt I have fear every
time I get a text message from my mum telling
me that my brother's dead.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
That's a lot.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, like every single like, yeah, I every single time
I worry opening up that text message.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
How did that's a that's a massive thing to live with.
Becauld you clearly really love him?

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Oh? Absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Has he been in jail?

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Has he has spend some time but just days, you know,
and then but that's the thing. We've got the best
lawyers to get him out, you know. Like I've been
at the point because of like I'm obviously a bit stronger,
but to say to mine like I'm going to call
the police, you know, I'm removing it, like he's got

(41:38):
to go, and like, but how do you do that?
It's it's like it's just not a there's no winners,
you know, like you don't just go oh cool, like
and it's tough because I'm this professional athlete that's been
very successful, that's earned a lot of money. It's like,
well you should be helping everyone. You know.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
It's easy for you to X y Z correct.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
You know, Hey how about this, Oh you've always had
a good you know, I've found out of a mental
health organization with my brother that struggles with mental health conditions,
and it's like, well, hold on, how does that make sense?
Like you know that shouldn't be the case, like worry
about your own backyard. Like it's tough. It's definitely tough,
and sometimes you just feel weakless, like you just you

(42:23):
go like I wish I could do it, but I
don't know what. Sometimes it's like I don't know what
to do, Like there is every every avenue has been explored,
and you just simply feel hopeless.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
So is it drugs with him?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
When you reflect on the person you were as a kid, now,
how do you feel about that person?

Speaker 1 (42:46):
I Everything in life that I've worked for has been
like such like that grind and nothing was roses all.
All I wanted in life was for someone to care
about me. Like, so when I had a teacher, and
it's weird, but people that you know, it's so easy
for teachers when there's that like person that's disobedient and

(43:09):
being boisterous and loud, they just go like, oh, that's typical. Great,
Like and I was obviously like yearning for something. I
was grasping, like I want some help and I don't
expect it, but you know what I mean. So then
I would gravitate to somewhere that like they would care
about me. And that was like the basketball coach, or
I had a political and legal studies coach, a teacher, sorry,

(43:30):
and I had a history teacher, and whilst didn't have
an inclination to love that subject, it was the teacher,
Like it was crazy to think even now I remembered,
like there was this lot more historytician. She actually cared
about me as a human, not as a student, and
that meant so much to me. So when you asked that, like,
it's made me again, like you know, I have this

(43:54):
gravitational pool to like trying to assist with people that
are in less fortunate, you know, and being the position
that I was in was in that regard was like
you can give back to so much more, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
And that's fair to say. Why you're doing this today
as well? Was that because by sharing your story it helps.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, And even there's like you know when you prepare
for that. And I was thinking in the drive here
and obviously listen to a few of the other episodes
in like Horse and that natural you know, how are
you going to approach that? And then as you speak,
I'm like, yeah, there's some things that initially I felt
would I be reluctant to share that? But then I'm like, no,
there's people in the same similar position, and for me,

(44:36):
being vulnerable, being open, being honest, being authentic is is
sharing stories is what we need and we need human connection.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
If you had listened to a podcast like this when
you were a kid, do you think it would have
made a difference.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I wasn't expected to be as successful
as what I am, Like there's no way, and like
I get pissed off now and like people like still
they talk about my career, you know, like oh yeah,
you had great opportunities, or no one gives me the
plaudits that I believe I deserve. It's because of the

(45:14):
young kid that was on a very dangerous path. So
like in that essence, like even when I was a
young like as a young development player, like I busted
my ass and no one ever knew that, Like, no
one was like why is he so? Why does he
work so hard?

Speaker 2 (45:33):
You only told your teammates about halfway through your Wildcat's career?
Is that right?

Speaker 1 (45:37):
But I don't even know the scope, like we don't
as professional athletes get fully immersed in people's lives. And
that was my responsibilit of understanding people and that I
wanted to know their story, and we did this in
my very last season, like what their why was? Because
how can you expect people to hold each other accountable,

(45:57):
hold standards, real, tear someone apart and then have a
coffee later, But then you don't know the human being.
How do you expect people to give all their emotion,
all their effort, sacrifice.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
So much be there for you on the court as
a teammatee.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah, but then you don't even know if they've got siblings,
or what their backstory is or what their motivation was.
We got everyone to write down what their why was,
and no one opened it up. We left it till
the eve of the finals and we sat there outside
of the Perforna in the car park and like Trev,
he was like, I do you want to lead this?
And I said no, I'll let you go. It's all you.

(46:36):
Trev opened up his.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
One big thing for a coach today.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Mate, unbelievable like rawness and I won't share his one
but the most powerful thing he's ever done in his
coaching career because we had a group there that was young,
but like for him to just this bravado, strong, proud
man which he is to like actually allow every single

(47:04):
person within the team to see what his why is
but then strip it down on these layers with no
judgment was special for him to be vulnerable and that
moment of time was huge. Obviously loved it to have
done it early and the peace, but it's what it's about,
and that was me as a captain, was like to
sit down and figure that out.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Your mental health? Did it ever suffer from what you
went through?

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah? It's funny, yeah, because like whilst I was playing
professional basketball, never at one point that I feel like,
you know, I suffer from a mental health I was
never diagnosed with a mental health condition. But the more
and more I have become immersed in this space in
understanding it, yeah, Yeah, there's moments in my career that
I look back and go like, holy shit, Like I

(47:51):
would have loved to have like acknowledged at that time,
even the way I still struggle with social media that
sort of side to it, and how like our brutal
that that really is and what that made that, how
that made me feel, But then the other effects of
how that impacted my play.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
As people criticizing, Yeah, what kind of things.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Like you talk about the story like, as a development player,
you're an underdog. Everyone loves you right, like you can't
do any wrong. You hit a shot in layup and
warm ups and hit a layup and people are like,
Greg High is the future. And the following year you
start getting some minutes W A guy, proud w A guy,
and they're like, awesome, you have a few good games, yep,

(48:33):
really good and even those games aren't that special, but
people just the underdog awesome, let's let's embrace him. And
I end up being a starter. I get invited to
a boomer camp. I'm playing good, but in one minutes
aren't like this, you know, amazing thing whatever. And that
changes as an impact because as your role grows, your
expectations grow, obviously within yourself, but fans start going, oh,

(48:55):
hold on, like is he as good as he is?
Like all that, and then they start but that ends
up being their fall guy. You know. Initially I got
so consumed in a dangerous way, and that was to
my own accord and my own damaging behavior. But I
remember seeing on Twitter and everyone's just sort of adding,
like mentioning an awesome job, well done. But then that

(49:17):
year or that shift was like people just like his shit,
worst player should be sacked. And the thing was was
like I could never understand the human like context.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah, why somebody would want to say that to another person?

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, I couldn't understand how we could be so hurtful,
like and we could be so quick for judgment and
being like he should be sacked or get rid of him.
And I'm like, okay, what about their livelihoods? You know,
Like I'm not saying that. I understand it's the results
driven industry, but we just don't understand that give people

(49:54):
a chance. We're just so quick to tear people down,
but we're not we're not quick to celebrate success.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
So how bad was it for you? Were you just
sitting there scrollings?

Speaker 1 (50:04):
I remember this is a moment, and it sort of
really changed me. I remembered like, and I was sort
of getting minutes and we're having a bit of a
down year and we're playing towns with crocodiles, and I
got brought in with like a minute left and got in,
got found in this, two free throws got scored on,
and then the last possession I came in and rotated
on a guy that I definitely shouldn't have completely my

(50:25):
fault got scored on. They hit a game winning as
a game winning shot time expired, and you always it's
not only one possession. I'm like, I clearly lost this
the game, like I can be honest, some fine of it.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
I'm aware of it.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
It was one, not one. It was like three four
bad possessions and I had a shit game. So I'll
cop that, like absolutely. But I remember sitting in the
ice bath, being on my phone. The BRA just like
came in and people that I was like had just
seen in the members function like the week before, you know, like,

(50:57):
and I'm like, this is so awkward, Like at night,
like my wife's asleep and I can't. I can barely
sleep off the games anyway. I'm just so wide up,
still scrolling, gone gone to sleep and then opening my
phone and still scrolling. And it was just like this
constant or then like seeing it. Some people save it
and use it for motivation, but it actually directly hurt me.

(51:19):
It's easy to say, we just don't look at it
from that, Like, I remember my mum reading newspaper articles
talking about me getting sacked and should call and be like, hey,
I've got there's a job opportunity at City of June.
There's a youth support worker and I'm like, what are
you talking about. She's like, oh, I saw this article
saying you're potentially going to be fired. And I'm like,
don't worry about that to then, you know, your wife,

(51:40):
seeing that.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
She's legitimately trying to.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
My mum was just so like she honestly did. She
was just like, oh, look, you've had a great run,
well done, and I was just like cool, you know,
but that consumed me and ended up having the best
game maybe of my career, like at that point Double
Double Back Backskin or Massive Game, and I put my
phone away. I just put those things in place in

(52:05):
my life to be like. It consumed me. There's no
denying it was. One of the catalysts of why I
retired was that it consumed me so much that my
energy and emotion was going to that sort of stuff
that I couldn't control, maybe in an addictive way that
I was worried so much about what people thought about
me that I wasn't enjoying the game. And so when

(52:26):
you asked about like that mental health conditions and in
that regard, I look back and now go, did I
really have a control on things? And yeah, is there
a lot more to it that I can really focus on?

Speaker 2 (52:40):
And you sort of alluded to it before, but I
suppose when those sorts of things happen where it feels,
even though it's a it's just inverticom as a basketball performance,
that it feels that it's attached to your self worth.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah, every game was like it was like running a
marathon at some points as well. It's tough because like
I retired in a manner like it and I still
love the sport. And when I retired, it was like
I really think give a fuck? And it was exhausting

(53:12):
and that affected my relationships, Like yep, I was obviously
a loving husband, my children, Like would they see me
like I was exhausted? You know? Was I a little
bit more less impatient? And that sucks because like what
that game as a young kid gave me so much
and gave me the life I am at some point

(53:32):
then was becoming a burden and that hurts. This really sucks.
But like, I'm still playing basketball, and I have ambitions
to try and play in the Conwarf games for three
and three because I love that sort of side that
I still have an opportunity to do that. It's a
new element, new sport. Once that happens. Whether irrespective if
I play or not, I'll never play basketball again. I

(53:55):
should round off my kids. Absolutely, I'll coach, but I
won't even do local, which is pretty bad.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
When I ask you the question, after everything that you've
been through, When I ask you the question, what is
a real man to you, how do you answer it?

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Oh, it's a good one. Really. Look, I think for me,
someone that's vulnerable. That's someone that's happy enough to show
their emotion. It's someone that's as loving and is happy

(54:41):
enough to tell someone all the time that they love
them and to share that both verbally and physically. It's
taking the lead. It is that stereotype of being a
provider for your family and being that guy that goes, yeah, hey,
absolutely take the man to hell, but then taking the
back seat too and just happy enough to sit on

(55:05):
the wayside and you know, just enjoy life as patience. Man.
It's just being comfortable with who you really are and
embracing that. I think you know, as we as as

(55:34):
as as men, we're expected too to be so proud
and stoic and never to display emotion and to withdraw

(55:55):
and and not show compassion. And the other side is
we're so to just tear each other down. Oh, I'll
tell you apart makes it stronger, Like nah, god, no,
you know, it's been so so often I've been able
to share like these, these like real fine moments with
some of my best mates, you know, like the Trevor

(56:18):
Gleeson incident where he was able to share that. But
why are we so reluctant to be open? What are
we so hot? Like? What do we fear for of?
And it's that fear of judgment like that that's it,
you know. And that's when you ask me, like, yeah,
what what does a man represent? That's all those things?

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Good answer.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Before I let you go.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
I mean, I thank you so much for sharing your
story because I always I get goosebumps every time I
say this to somebody, But I think it does help
kids coming through and even big.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Kids like us. Now you talk about blue light discos.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
We've been around a while that you know, to share
our own stories and be vulnerable. As you say, but
that's exactly what you do through your charity Stitch in Time.
So tell people listening how they can support your charity.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Yeah, absolutely, As you know, there's a few ways hit
up stitch in Time, dot org, dot you, or obviously
through all the social media platforms. If there's one piece
of advice that I always like, try and leave people,
and in that sentiment is that we are so much
for people to reach out for support, but we need
to think about how tough that really is. So many

(57:30):
people are waiting for people to be reached out upon.
You know, I ask five closer you mates how they're
doing and to actually show genuine care because like if
I said to you Nearroly, he's struggling in that you're
okay and we just have that human connection, I don't
think things are going okay. And we kept talking for
a little bit and I asked, have you considered taking

(57:51):
your own life? And you said yes. The one thing
you would do, respective of my education level, is I
would place every out of any in my life to
know that you would be okay. Like I'd go seek
out accounts, I talk to your parents, talk to your partner,
talk to a psychologist. You'd get the experts, but you'd
do that because we value human life, but we're so

(58:12):
fearful of asking for that question for that reason. To
hear that, because you'd go, I don't really know what
to do. I would encourage everyone to be an advocate
for mental health, like you don't need a title, and
if we truly want to play any points on it,
every single person needs to play a priority on it.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Thank you very much for everything you shared today. It's
pretty damn inspiring and four time MBO champion more than
two hundred games. As you said, your mum must be
pretty proud at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
She is. I'll tell you one thing that's always really sentimental,
and it was funny. I was just cleaning up my offices.
My mum amazing to think person in speaking unless she writes.
She writes all the time. From when I was playing,
Mum would write these like little essays just how proud
she was of me, and yeah, there's always special and
I was looking for on the other day and she

(58:59):
had a few tears, just like how how lucky I
am obviously had it in my life. But how special
was for her to share those moments that mean as
well awesome.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Well done, Thanks for love soon time.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Once again, thank you to Greg for sharing his story.
Please remember if this chat was triggering for you, or
there is someone you know who may need help, Beyond
Blue dot org, dot AU, Lifeline one three, one, one
one four or one eight hundred respect are just a
couple of places you can go. This is the final
episode for season two of Ordinarily Speaking. I want to

(59:36):
thank each and every one of you who have reached
out along the way and shared your stories with me.
You're the reason I started this podcast and why each
and every sportsperson has agreed to come on the show
and share their story to try and help people listening.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
If you want to.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Get in touch at Ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram or
at Narrowly Underscore Meadows on Twitter. And if you've enjoyed
the series, please tell your nights. Thanks again,