March 8, 2022 • 57 mins
#OrdineroliSpeaking Jess Jonassen has played a starring role for the Australian Women's Cricket team for a decade, playing in all forms of the game. Her success on the field is testament to her resilience off it. Battles with depression and self identity led Jess down a path where she self harmed and abused alcohol. At the same time, Jess was also coming to terms with her father’s declining health. As she represents Australia in another World Cup - this time in New Zealand, Jess wants to share her story publicly for the first time in the hope of helping others.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ordinarily Speaking, I internalize my own personal identity struggles, but
now I'm speaking out to try and help others to
make sure they don't do.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
The same.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Time.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Hello and welcome to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. Jess
Jonason has been a part of the Australian cricket set
up for a decade, playing in all forms of the game.
Her success on the field is testament to her resilience
off it. Battles with depression and self identity led Jess
down a path where she's self harmed and abused alcohol.
(00:49):
All the while, Jess was also coming to terms with
her father's declining health. Jess shares her story publicly for
the first time in the hope of helping others. She
doesn't want anyone, especially kids, to feel as a lone
as she sometimes has. As you listen to this incredibly
honest chat, please remember there is help out there. Beyond
(01:10):
Blue dot org, dot au and Lifeline one three Double
one one four are just a couple of places you
can go. We caught up just before Jess departed for
the World Cup in New Zealand, which is happening as
this podcast is released. If you tune in to support
the girls and watch Jess play look.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Out for the Ladybug Socks. I hope you enjoyed the chat.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Well, I'm going to preface this chat by saying we're
both wearing masks because you're getting ready for a World
Cup and we're at the Junction Oval in Victoria, and
there's a little bit of you know, preparations going on
for the last of the Ashes, So there's a bit
of noise happening at the moment, So bear with us
if you hear the sounds of summer trucks, crickets, parrots, rollers,
(02:13):
those sorts of things. But Jess, thanks so much for
spending some time with us.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, it's a bit of chaos here, hopefully organized chaos,
though we.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Like a bit of organized chaos. You want to share
your story today, including some really personal things that you
haven't shared publicly before. I want to start by asking
why do you want to share your story?
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I think for me it's always been about trying to
help at least one person, because I know with some
of the things that I've sort of gone through or
experienced that it felt quite lonely at times that so, yeah,
sometimes it's nice to know that like, even though we're
an athlete or whatever, that was still human as well
(03:00):
and still go through all the same sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And he's off, Oh, he's going to star in this
podcast episode. I have a feeling. So it is it
about not feeling alone, I guess and the way that
you did.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, it is, and that there is help out there.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
There are other people out there that sort of experienced
similar things. So yeah, to sort of never feel like
you're the only one going through something.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Going back to when you were a little girl, you
had some inner struggles, tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, well, I guess being a girl growing up in
country Queensland, up in Rockampton and with my sport in
cricket that it's such a male dominant sort of arena
as well. So being a young girl, yeah, sort of
the access of playing cricket with or against girls was
just non existent. Just to play cricket alone, my parents
(03:53):
actually had to go and get I guess permission from
Catholic Education Queensland because I was at a Catholic school.
And yeah, the fact that we had to get permission
from such a high up organization for me just to
play a sport that I loved and I enjoyed because
it wasn't for girls. Yeah, it wasn't for girls. And
I vividly remember them telling me that, yes, you can play.
(04:14):
We give you permission to play, but you have to
wear the clothes that the boys wear. You have to
wear the shorts. And I was like, well duh. Like
I was like, I'm going to be out there and white.
I'm not going to get skin taken off my legs.
And I was like, I'm not gonna wear my.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Skirt out there to play.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So yeah, it was just looking back now, it's just
little comments like that just make me shake my head.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
How did that make you feel at the time.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
At the time, because I was quite young, I just
I was like, oh, great, they're gonna let me play.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
That's all I really cared about.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I just wanted to participate, I guess, in a sport
that I enjoyed and I loved and I happened to
be good at. I didn't care whether I was the
only one of my kind. I guess you could say
I was lucky. I had some really good support around me,
not only from my parents, from my family, but then
I had a local club coach up there, Scott Deith
who he was my only ever cricket coach up in
(05:02):
Rocky and he still follows my career closely now. So
he was a massive part of getting me and keeping
me in the game.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I feel like every episode I do of this, there's
always somebody like that that had you back at the beginning.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I mean, he still to this day underestimates the importance
that he's had on my career. But yeah, every time
I would go back home, he's like, oh, you bring
in your kit, do you want to throw, do you
want to have a bad or whatever.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
So that's pretty cool even now.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
So the Catholic upbringing, how else did it impact you?
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Obviously, Yeah, when I was sort of much older, around
seventeen eighteen, so I had some elements of I guess
self discovery and figuring out my sexuality as well. So
that was a big one for me that he Obviously,
growing up in the country, traditional values, Catholic school, the
idea of homosexuality just wasn't really a thing. So yeah,
(05:57):
that was one thing for me going through that phase
of my life that Yeah, it was pretty confronting at
the time, but I was once again fortunate that I
had some really good support around me with my partner,
who I met in twenty twelve.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
It was now, so that's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So yeah, Sarah, she's her and her family were very
good to me, particularly because when I as soon as
I finished school in twenty ten, I moved down to Brisbane,
so I was away from my entire family.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
It was just me.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So yeah, meeting her a few years later really really
almost saved me in a way.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
When you say self discovery and thinking about your own identity,
what sort of thoughts were you having at the time
as far as how you were feeling about yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I guess it was a bit of confusion in a
way that I knew sort of that I liked women
or how I felt there, but at the same time
there was struggles sort of within my family around acceptance
of it. So then I sort of felt, well, I guess,
is this the wrong thing? Like am I doing the
(07:03):
wrong thing by my family or whatever? But then at
the same time I was like, well, I don't want
to sacrifice my happiness just to make somebody else feel
better about the situation. So yeah, there was a lot
of sort of mental struggles in that sort of phase
as well that I yeah, turned to things that weren't
(07:23):
healthy for me, whether that be sort of drinking a
bit or at different times some self harm because I
just wanted to focus on something different or feel something different.
And it was a very confronting time of my life.
But yeah, very fortunate that I was with my partner
at the time that I realized that, yeah, there were
(07:45):
some pretty amazing things still happening in my life regardless
of the conflict in a way that was sort of
between some members of my family at the time.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
That must be incredibly tough because you're close with your family, yeah,
love them, So how do you reconcile with that?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, I was sort of just thinking, well, it's just time,
like always being told time will heal most things. So,
and I mean one of my sisters, Laura, I'm probably
the closest with her out of my two sisters, and
I sort of told her that I was like, I'm gay,
and she was so supportive of me, and she's like, well, yeah, duh,
(08:27):
Like it's almost like she just knew. And then that's
the thing that like, I was such a tomboy growing up.
I played cricket, I had short hair at different times,
like I mean, stereotypically, but then it's like just other
certain things that it was just like just precursors that
almost just led her to believe that, well, yeah, this
is who you are and I love you no matter what.
(08:48):
So I think having her support and her voice sort
of up at home with the rest of my family
should have probably helped that process in a way. And
I vividly remember that when the rest of my family
sort of found out that it was a week or
so before I was heading overseas for a cricket trip.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
So I just thought, well, you, beauty, this is great.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Like I can sort of escape it in a way
that I'm not big on conflict, so I just sort
of just put it on the back burner and I
was like, well, they can deal with it because I've
come to terms with this is who I am and
I'm happy. Yeah, it was sort of it just one
of those things that.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
I was really firm in the belief as to who
I was with that part of my life.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Do you remember your parents' first reaction.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I remember having some long conversations on the phone with
Mom at different times, like a few arguments I think
there was one time that she was like, I love you,
but so there was always that one and like it
did hurt a little bit because I was sort of like, well,
I don't want to lose my family over this, but
at the same time, like they need to accept it.
(09:56):
I mean they have now, Like it was sort of
just in that moment that, yeah, they were making it
sort of about them and thinking that they failed as parents,
which I think that's just the traditional values that they
were brought up on, and like I touched on before that,
like being in a regional area in the country that
(10:17):
it was just homosexuality just wasn't necessarily a thing, or
it wasn't sort of out there in people's faces, or
people weren't exposed as exposed to it. So yeah, I
think initially they were sort of just a bit taken
aback by it, and it was very hard at the
time because I know that Mum was like, well, I
(10:37):
love you, but obviously I want different things for you whatever.
I was like, well, if you love me, how you're
acting now is going the right way about pushing me away.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
If you love me, then this is like you love me.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I think she was just worried that I'd be just
labeled as Jess Jonason, the lesbian cricketer.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
But I remember telling her that some.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Of the most successful female cricketers just happen to be gay,
Like they're not known as this person like oh, Alex
Blackwell the gay Captain of Australia or whatever, like, it's
just that's just part of who they are.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah, and feeling safe in that environment is a great thing.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, exactly, And that's probably one of the biggest things
that it's like the obviously there's the stereotype that female
so many female athletes are gay or lesbian or biosexual
or whatever, but it's probably just comes across that way
because it's an environment where people feel safe to fully
(11:42):
express themselves and be genuine and be exactly who they are.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Are there any moments he's off again, caep it down, mate,
Come on, Are there any moments that stand out to
you that you really felt like you had to hide?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Like I'm generally a relatively private person anyway, so I
never really sort of felt like I had to hide
in a way. There was probably just parts of my
life that I just chose not to share with people.
From that, I probably then started to believe that I
was only a certain type of person in the sense
that well, when I was just a cricketer and that's
(12:29):
all the conversations with people.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Around me revolved around.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, sort of in the outside world, it was sort
of it wasn't really something that I guess for a
long time was deemed marketable in a way, so I
just kept it to myself.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
God, that's a tough thing to say, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, Like, and I mean like I get it to
an extent, but at the same time, it's sort of, well,
there's so many different types of people in the world
that why you sort of only wanting to try and
appeal to a certain type or certain audience.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Yeah, it's sort of.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That was quite challenging at a time that I was like, well,
who I am isn't Sometimes it feels like who I
am isn't good enough, or isn't something that or someone
that you can put out there to be like, Hey,
we're proud of who this person is, Like, if you
want to be like them, we support that you. And
(13:26):
the thing that I keep coming back to is you
as the little girl, and if you as the little
girl had someone like you with your experience and in
the Australian cricket it's you know, you're basically part of
the furniture.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Now Australian cricket. Speaking as honestly as this, when you're
a little girl, I would imagine that would have meant
a lot to you. When you think about the little
girl that you were, what do you wish you could
say to her?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, well, it's funny you say that, because I did
sort of have somebody like that who I've never actually
told her that she had this impact on me, to
be fair, but it was Alex Blackwell. I remember being
on a tour and it was back in the time
when we had roommates and stuff, and she was somebody
that you could just have an open, honest and genuine
(14:12):
conversation with about anything and she listened. And obviously for
me when I was in the Australian stuff for the
first time, I was this young sort of nineteen year
old and she'd had a wealth of experience, she'd been
there many years before, and just having conversations with her
about just being authentic and being who you are and
(14:34):
being proud of that. That that was always the way
that I felt when I was talking or I was
around her, and she actually said to me after one
of our domestic games against New South Wales actually that
she was like, oh, she noticed a change in me
that I'd gone from being quite reserved and my cricket
(14:58):
was sort of just like plateauing, just going along. And
then after a little while when I started sort of
giving a little bit more of myself and about I
guess that side of myself that I was in a
same sexual relationship and all of this, that she was like, Yeah,
you just seem so much more. You just seem happy,
like you just seem more you, and that in itself,
(15:24):
I was sort of a bit of a light bulb
moment that I was like, well, hey, people like this
actually notice this change in me, that this is actually
something that's like positive and something that's for the better.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
That I need to do more of it. So I
guess for me.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
That if I had something like that even a few
years earlier, that I would have felt so much more
comfortable with sharing myself with everyone, like around like with
the world that I was like, well, no, this is
who I am. I'm proud of who I am. And
I guess that's the point where I'm at now that
(16:02):
I was never ashamed of it.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
I was never I never felt like.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I was not being true, but it was sort of just, Yeah,
when you have people in I guess the organization you're
a part of that make you feel never intended to,
but make you feel like you're not as worthy as
somebody who in a I guess a heterosexual relationship, it's
(16:29):
like you just keep trying to put it down, put
it down, push it down further. So yeah, to have
someone like Alex who was so open and vocal about
who she was and proud of that, then yeah, it
had a massive impact on me and making me want
to be that open and proud and sort of feel
like it's my responsibility in a way to help any
(16:54):
other young Like it doesn't have to be a young female.
It could be a young male or somebody who is
questioning their sexual identity or gender or anything that it's like, well,
who you are is okay, who you are is enough.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
What a powerful gift that Alex gave you and that
you're going to give to other people, There's no doubt
about it. You spoke earlier about the self harm aspect.
How did that come about for you?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Yeah, well that for me was probably it was more so.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
To try and feel something different than what I was
sometimes just actually to feel something at all. That I
went through a few phases of some depression, But then
that aspect of it was something that I never really
even shared with some psychologists at the time, so that
was still something I was trying to battle with internally.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
That because obviously the perception of it.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Being bad or that you're self harmed to try and
suicide sort of thing, but it wasn't at that point,
and it wasn't for those reasons. And also the thing
that it's like, well, being a teenager, have some typical
teenage I guess phrases or things that people throw around
is that you're just doing it for attention, which.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Was never the case.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I'm never somebody I never want to be a center
of attention for anything.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
So I was like, well, why would I do it
for that reason?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And I guess for me, I knew that's not why
I was doing it that yeah, and it was sort
of it was never major things, but it was.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Like maybe sometimes I'd have.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Like a little knife from the kitchen or whatever, if
I was on tour on my own in a spot
that only I'm going to see it when I'm in
the shower sort of thing, and always doing it in
places that I know are always covered up other than
like if my partner was there or would see or whatever.
Then like I remember making up stories that I was like, oh,
(18:59):
I dived the cricket field and something scratched me or whatever,
and like that in itself didn't feel right lying to
her early on, but that side of it, I was
a bit embarrassed in a way that I got to
that point, but at the same time in the moment
that it's the only way I felt like I could cope.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
So was it a pressure release?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Is that?
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Yeah? Probably in a way.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Stuff was like built up in me and I was like, well,
I needed to do something. And if it wasn't that,
then I was craving a drink every day and I'm
not a big drinker, but I'd wake up in the
morning I was like, I just want to have a drink,
And I mean there was something when I wouldn't because
I knew I couldn't. So then that was the next
(19:44):
best option that I saw at the time, And like
I'd never it would never get to the point where
it's like I'd drink and get drunk. It was just
I needed something to just level me out a bit.
But then yeah, it got to the point where I
was like, well, I was doing that day on day
on day that it's like I just needed a drink.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
To cope numb of the pain.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, Like it's crazy to be like thinking about it
again now that it's like I was in that that
period of my life where I just that's literally all
I could think of and it's the only way I
thought I could cope.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
How is it talking about it and thinking, like really
thinking about it. It's very confronting, and it makes me
realize how much I actually do keep to myself that
it's HiT's something that my partner and I have spoken
about a bit in the sense that I've asked her
to open up to me a bit more. And then
(20:47):
on the same foot, I'm not actually doing that myself,
or as much as.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
I thought I was.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, the fact, like very early on, like I said
that I kept things like that from her, but I
ended up telling her like a number of years ago.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Timing is not my strong point.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Because I'd had a few drinks and it was Christmas day,
and I've thought it was the right time to tell her, Hey,
this is what I've done, and yeah, like it wasn't
great for her, like she felt like she had failed
me in a way that I didn't feel comfortable enough
to tell her before I got to that point that
(21:25):
try and get let her help me. And I never
wanted to burden anybody. That was my thing, and that
was something that my dad was always strong on that
he just never wanted to put anybody out. So I
think I guess I sort of got that trade off
him a little bit that I was like, no, it's my.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Battles, I'll deal with it myself, which.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
In hindsight and now is that I've learned is not
the way to go about it. That there's people around
you that love you and want to support you that
sometimes you don't know how they can help or how
you can help yourself, which is off and the hardest
part that it's like, well, what do you.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Need from me?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And my response quite often was I don't know, and
it's okay to not know, but it's just sometimes knowing
that that person is there is enough.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I guess it wasn't necessarily like a pride.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Thing that I didn't want to tell people that this
is what was going on. Like I was always self aware,
but a lot of the time, yeah, I just never
actually knew the right way to deal with it or
cope with it.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
It's a confronting thing.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Say, it's very confronting.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
When was it at its worst for you.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
In terms of this self harm stuff in itself was
probably a number of years ago now, which I'm proud
of that I've sort of overcome that part of it.
But then, yeah, probably as recently as twenty eighteen was
(22:59):
a very tough year for me as well, in the
sense that in and around sort of cricket related stuff
that well, I'd had a really solid preseason.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
I'd worked exceptionally hard, and I was.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
In the form and the physical peak of my career,
and I was feeling really good, and we were preparing
for a T twenty World Cup in the West Indies.
And then a couple of weeks or just under a
month before we went away, we had a training camp
and just chasing after a ball as I normally would,
and felt something going my knee and I couldn't put
(23:34):
any weight on it at all. And with me, I
have a pretty sketchy history of knee issues.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
So yeah, I ended up getting a scan.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
And how many of you done, I've had four, so
I've had two on each leg now, so.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You're fair share.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah that was hard in itself, like I've had my
history of injuries throughout and but yeah, for this, the
fact that I'd worked so hard I was in the
position that I was, and then I broke down just
before a major tournament, and I mean I managed to
work hard to get on the plane to go to
that series and didn't end up playing a single game,
and ultimately the girls won the World Cup. And I
(24:13):
remember being over there that I just felt really hollow,
really empty, and I felt bad for that because I'm
a real team person, Like I loved that the girls won.
I knew all the work that they'd put in, but
then I was like, well, I contributed nothing Like That's
how I felt like. I felt like I was just
(24:33):
a spare part over there, that what I had done
to get there didn't matter. And that was a hard
thing to have the battle through when I was so
far away. I was on the complete other side of
the world. I was so far away from everybody who
cared about me, loved me, my support network. The time
(24:54):
difference was awful, So I'd talked to my loved ones
like maybe twenty minutes a day, sometimes not even at
all for a few days. So yeah, that was probably
probably one of my lowest, if not the lowest points
that I felt when I was away on that tour.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
And so how did it manifest itself on that tour?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Yeah, well, it.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Got to the point where there's actually another player and
I we both didn't play a single game and we
ended up probably surviving that tour on rum and dry
hum or, drinking pina coladas on the beach. That there
was often that I'd say, oh, yeah, it's a virgin
pina colada, but knowing full well it wasn't. Yeah, it
was like, oh, well, like we're just here pretty much
(25:42):
to make up the numbers.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Like that's sort of just how it felt.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I sort of lost my identity in a way, I
guess you could say that so often I was known
as Jess Johnason, the cricketer, and when I wasn't out
in the field, I wasn't performing, I didn't have anything
really to talk to people about in terms of performances
or whatever, because I was like, well, I didn't have
any part to play, So if I'm not playing cricket,
(26:06):
then who the hell am I? Particularly when you're in
a bubble right or you're on or to, everything just amplifies.
I just felt so trapped. I just wanted Every day
I woke up and I cried because I just wanted
to go home. I've never been at that point before that.
I've loved playing cricket. I've loved representing my country like
(26:30):
my family, and yeah, to not want to be there
it was really hard.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Was part of it that if you're not the cricketer,
then who am I? And then I have to deal
with the real stuff as well, the stuff that you
sort of had spoken about earlier.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, it's just well there was so much extra space
to think or overthink or yeah, like you said, like
have to deal with or have to confront that. Cricket
was almost the distraction away from all of that stuff.
Even if I was performing badly or whatnot. It's just
(27:12):
I still loved being out on the field.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And there was something to focus on it.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, there was something to actually put my energy or
my attention into. But when I didn't have that, I
was like well, I didn't want to do anything. There
was a lot of tears, there was a lot of
sort of disengaging. Yeah, I just didn't feel comfortable sort
of around the group because like I was feeling so
(27:39):
low and so negative. But then at the same time,
I had thirteen fourteen other girls that were actually preparing
for a world tournament, that they had their attention and
their focus on something positive.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
But then I was feeling like that that.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I was just I just thought the best option was
to just stay in my room and not really come out,
because at times when I did, I felt like I
had to put on a front, and that in itself,
when I was feeling so low and not much energy,
I didn't have much else to give. So I'd get
(28:18):
back to my room and I'd just be completely exhausted.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
In hindsight, do you think you would depressed?
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, And I guess for me, like, I was just
so fortunate that we had our team psych that traveled
away with us that he almost forced me to have
conversations with him early on because he could see it.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
He'd seen me.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I'd been speaking with him probably a year or two
prior to that, and he noticed the change in me,
He noticed the difference. Yeah, the fact that he forced
me a few times to do it was probably something
that yeah, I thank him for now.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Saved Yeah, definitely saved me because I would have been, like,
there's a time where.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I was I was looking up flights out of try
and get myself out of there.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Do the girls know now what you went through then?
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Not to that extent?
Speaker 4 (29:13):
No, how do you think they're going to feel when
they listen to this?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Probably wish that I spoke up to some extent, Like
I don't know, it's always a hard one. Like our
group is so supportive, which is why me not sort
of sharing much of this at the time.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It seems a little bit hypocritical in a way that
it's cycle. We say, yeah, if you're struggling, like speak
up and whatnot, but it's like the physical act of
doing that is actually really challenging. And I think for
me it was never like, oh, I don't want to
speak up because I'm afraid that I might not get
selected because they see me as mentally fragile or whatever
(29:57):
that I'm not mentally tough. But yeah, it's sort of
it just goes to show that, like, people only see
the version of you that you wish them to see. Yeah,
I know the girls would have wished that I'd spoken
up a little bit more about it so that they
could feel like they helped that I felt less lonely,
but I didn't want to detract from what their job
(30:19):
was to win.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
How did you get through it?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Well, it was a lot of thanks to Pete Peter Clark,
our team's site. I probably caught up with him every
few days at one point on that trip, and we
actually did a few workshops when I got to the
point where I could actually speak when I was with
him that there were times at the start where I
caught up with him and he asked me how I
(30:42):
was going.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
I literally just cried.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I couldn't I couldn't actually put a sentence together because
there was just all this built up emotion because I'd
just been on my own in my room. I'd shut
myself off. So with him actually asking me how I was,
it's just just all came out at once. And Yeah,
(31:04):
we eventually got to the point where we could do
some workshop sort of stuff in the sense that figuring out, well, okay,
who is Jess Jonason away from the cricket field, and
he made me realize all the great things that I
do that don't actually involve cricket, all the great relationships
I have that aren't with cricket people. That in itself
(31:26):
was so powerful for me. It was so easy to
stay wrapped up in cricket because that was my environment
at the time, and I lost sight of everything else
that was outside of that, that actually is more a
part of me than what cricket is.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
So who are you?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a partner,
I've completed a law degree, I've completed multiple sort of
uni degrees and grad certificates, like I'm a dog.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Mum as well.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Like so, yeah, there's so many, so many different aspects
to me that, yeah, more than just cricket.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
How are you doing now? Is your mental health something
that you need to check in on daily or how
in your words are you doing now?
Speaker 5 (32:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Well, it's something that is an ongoing I wouldn't say battle,
but it's an ongoing thing that I need to continuously
check in on.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
I journal a little bit.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I used to do it quite regularly when I was
sort of at my worst, and then there was times
when I just I completely stopped because I felt like
I was fine and I was tracking really well. But
then yeah, it's sort of it's something that I know
helps me, so I try and keep on top of.
Whenever I've got long tours, particularly when I'm away from home,
(32:53):
is probably when.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
It's some of its hardest.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Particularly in the current climate with COVID that we're in.
We have heavy protocols that we're not allowed out too much.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
We have to sit in standard masks on apart going through.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, so it's like there's so many extra things that
sort of make you have to be I guess internal
with a lot of things. So it's so, yeah, journaling
for me is something that's actually really helped me, and
then actually just making the conscious effort there when somebody
asked me how I am, particularly somebody that's important to me,
that I tell them the honest answer, and quite often
(33:33):
some ways that I phrase it is sort of if
somebody asked me I was like, I'm not, like, are
you okay?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
I was like, not really, but I will be.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Then if they want to sort of know more help
more than I was like, then I say it. But
something my partner actually says to me, She's like, I'm
sick of having to wait to prompt you. But for me,
it's like that's just how I've always coped that. It's
like I've always been internal and trying to deal with
things on my own. That it's like, well, I'll tell
(34:02):
you what it is you want to know, whereas now
it's like I'm trying to do that slightly differently that
it's like, well, be a bit more open about it.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
When you speak of the journaling when it was at
its worst, what was some of the things that you
were saying to yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
There was times when I said I was worthless or
that I felt worthless anyway, that is cricket for me,
Are you doing the right thing? I really don't want
to be here, And by here, it wasn't I don't
want to be here on the earth, it was I
don't want to be here in this situation. Like when
I was going through knee issues as well, it was like, well,
(34:42):
you're not fit enough. Yeah, there was so much negative
talk that was going on, and whenever I was told that, oh,
you're valuable to us, I never believed it.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
I was like, well, prove it so many things.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah, are you better now with that sort of sof
talk or do you still have your moments as well?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Oh? I think like most humans, you still have your moments.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
But I think I'm much better at catching myself now
and redirecting thoughts, because that was another big thing for
me that it was why I was feeling like I
had no energy for so long, was because I was
constantly fighting certain thoughts or emotions as opposed to just
accepting that they were there and trying to redirect to
(35:26):
something more positive. It's sort of just because I felt
a certain way didn't mean I had to act a
certain way, And that was a big thing for me.
That was sort of, well, Okay, I feel angry or whatever,
but I'm not going to punch a wall. I feel angry,
but it's like I can channel that into writing words
on paper, and then I've processed it.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
I've got it out.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Whether I believed what I was writing or not was
irrelevant at different points. It's just that was the outlet
that was the positive outlet.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
That makes a lot of sense. Tell me about the
photos that you take on to her now.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yes, I've printed some photos of both ones. Of like
my family, my dog ALFI ones with my partner and
I put them on the wall in whatever hotel room
I'm in. There's probably only a handful of maybe eight
or so, but they're a constant reminder for me of
things that I have outside of cricket, or things that
(36:22):
I have that are at home that aren't physically with.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Me in that moment.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
And I only have one specific sort of cricket related one,
which isn't really cricket related, but it was after we
won the T twenty final in Melbourne when we were
all dancing on.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Stage with Katie Perry.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
So that's the only sort of cricket related one I
guess I have, but it's still something that reminds me
of all the amazing things that I've sort of experienced
or doesn't matter what the lows I had, that this
is how I came through the other side.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
That was a pretty cool moment.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I did remember actually saying to my partner because she
was down there with my family as well, and I
said to her when we came into the change rooms after,
I was like, I'm sorry, babe, but I don't think
our wedding day is going to top this, and I mean,
I think I jinxed it because we've postponed twice now
that we're still waiting.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Waiting for Katy Perry to come see exactly.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
She's not sing at the wedding now. She laughed and
she's like, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
I videoed you girls on stage that night and so
doing the worm and things like that, and I think
that video has got more views than anything I've ever
done as a journalist.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
We were like little school girls.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
It was.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
It was so bizarre that you had all these mid
twenties year old girls and we just behave like we
were five year olds again. It was so good and yeah,
it's a memory that will live with me forever.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Jess Jonathon In. Amongst
everything that you've already spoken about before, that West Indies
tour was also the time that you were coming to
grips with your dad's diagnosis. Tell me a little bit
about that and how you found out about that.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, a number of years ago Dad was diagnosed with
lung cancer and we were all very shocked by it
because sort of he was a non smoker. He was
a fit, healthy guy. There was no sort of precursor
as to why he should have got that diagnosis, and
he'd actually had this prior to him going and getting
(38:42):
checked out. He'd had this sort of persistent little cough
for like months and months. It was so annoying that
we were like, seriously, go to the doctor and go
and get checked out. But he was never, Like I said,
he never wanted to put anyone out and he always
question because he before he was a teacher, he worked
in the health system, and he was like, nah, don't
(39:05):
don't believe in it sort of thing, like they're wasting
my money, and.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
Probably like a typical middle aged country mail that it's like, nah,
she'll be right.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
We can both say that because we both come.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
From the countruly, so yeah, it's sort of It took
him a long time before he got checked out, whether
it was the matter that he was scared of what
it might have been, or whether it was what he
was telling us that nah, she'll be right sort of thing.
I'll do all this other stuff to get it fixed,
(39:39):
but none of it was working. So We're in the
middle of one of our WBBL seasons and I remember
getting a message from Mum being like oh, can we FaceTime?
You make sure Sarah's their sort of thing as well.
I was like okay, like, oh, I wonder what this is.
And I got on FaceTime and the rest of my
family were there, and I was like, what's happening here?
(40:01):
And Dad then went to tell us what the diagnosis was,
that he had cancer, and he couldn't actually get it out.
He just it was probably one of the first times
I'd seen him cry, and my whole family was just
in tears at the time. And I remember I didn't cry,
like I didn't know what to believe and I didn't
(40:26):
know what to feel that. I was just like, well, okay,
what's what now, Like what's next sort of thing, thinking
that it wasn't something that was Yeah, it was cancer,
like nobody wants to hear that word. But I was like,
it's my dad, Like he's strong, he'll he'll fight it, it'll
be fine. But then they said the extent that it
(40:46):
was at it was, I think they said it was
either stage three or stage four by that point, and
I was just like knowing that then that meant that
stage three or four lung cancer, that was maligue, that
means it's fatal. That was like, okay, but what's the
(41:08):
like still, what's next? Like how can we prolong this?
Like we want old age to kill him, not cancer
to kill him sort of thing. That. Yeah, it was
a very very hard thing to take, and I think
I was in well, I know I was in denial
for a large part of those last four last few
(41:29):
years from from hearing that what did your dad mean?
Speaker 4 (41:33):
To what was he like as a bloke?
Speaker 5 (41:37):
He was He was a bit of a hard ass
in a way.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I think for him, like with his upbringing and how
he was brought up, how he was made a lot
of sense that he was made to work for every
little thing that he got. He loved us, and we
all knew that how much he loved us, But he
was never the most affectionate per and I think at
(42:02):
times like he sort of he sent messages or wrote
letters sort of like closer to sort of when he
passed it, it was almost like he regretted not giving
us more hugs or telling us how much he loved us.
And I just remember saying to him that it's like
you didn't need to do all that.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
I just knew.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
So it's like he would constantly when I was first
playing cricket. We would go down to the local nets
for like on three hours. I would bat for probably
an hour of that. At the start, he would bowl
every type of delivery, and then he would bat so
I could bowl, and then he'd bowl again. And not
(42:43):
once did he complain about that. He loved it, probably
more than I did at different times, and he would
get up early and take me to the gym. He
would take my sisters to swimming carnivals. He took some
jobs overseas so he could earn some more money for us,
for us to do sport, or us to live a
(43:04):
good life. Like we weren't rich, but I see as
as we were wealthy. We were wealthy with his love,
with their support, and with experiences that I remember sort of.
Not long after he passed, I just felt, or even
a little bit before, I felt a bit robbed in
a way of time with him, in the sense that
(43:27):
I was the only one out of my family that
wasn't still living up at home. I didn't get to
spend that time with him in my teenage years or
my early twenties that could go and do things with
him or have the conversations with him that you meant
to have with your dad. But at the same time,
I was like, well, I got all that extra time
when I was younger at the cricket nets or learning
(43:49):
to drive. He'd specifically take coaching jobs in teams I
was a part of so he could come away. So
it's things like that that I was like, Oh, I
actually did get to spend that time with him, but yeah,
it's sort of yeah, I miss him every day.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
Was a biggest fan and critic as a.
Speaker 5 (44:12):
Without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I've actually I've described him as that exactly.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
That he was.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Always, yeah, my biggest supporter, but my fiercest critic. Some
of the messages I would get after games, it was
so funny that, even to the point now my mum
tries to send some that is like this is your
father speaking ahh. But I think when he passed that
was one thing I probably had missed the most, was
(44:44):
the messages postgame analyzing either the game or my performance.
It's those little things that, yeah, I miss all the time.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Leaves a hole.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
It's a massive hole, like I always feel like they'll
be there, will always be a part of me that
will feel broken because he's not around.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
What do you do now to make sure that you
remember him each game.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Every time I step out on the cricket field, I
wear a pair of ladybug socks because for some reason,
he loved ladybugs and whenever he wrote messages, he would
always put a mountain of emojis in there, and a
lot of them never made any sense as to what
he'd just said.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
He just he showed his emotions exactly.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
But it's like some of the stuff he put in
there was so bizarre, but without fail, there was always
a ladybug in there. So one of my sisters actually
bought all of us a pair of ladybug socks.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
To remember him by.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
But yeah, she gave me her pair because she's like,
I know that you wear these every time, so here's
another pair so that you don't wear this one out.
And it's a little nod to him when I'm out
in the field that he's always out there with me.
And whenever we play a night game as well. One
thing we said to my young niece and nephew was
(46:05):
that if you ever miss data, like he's the brightest
star up in the sky, and whenever we play a
night game, I always look up to try and find
where that star is and city. If I take a
wicked I always look up and give a little nod
to it.
Speaker 5 (46:19):
Yeah, to feel and know that he's there still watching.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Banging away and now the parrots are going as well.
They love to share a moment in hindsight, How amazing
is it that he got to be there at that
twenty twenty mcg and watch his little girl, you know,
this big tough country dude watch his little girl in
front of a packed mcg living air dream. How special
was that?
Speaker 1 (46:45):
It was probably one of my greatest highlights, I think,
knowing that that was his last live game of cricket,
that he watched me play. Yeah, and that's actually one
of the photo I also have up on my wall,
so I lied, there are two cricket related ones, but
still has my family in it.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
That.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, how happy and how much pride he had. Yeah,
it's so special that he was there and he got
to experience it with the rest of the family as well,
and my little niece and nephew. There's a photo of
them holding the trophy at one point as well.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
And what did he say to you when you walked
off the field that day.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
He gave me a hug and he just said he's
so proud of me.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
It was so crazy that, like, I'd never had so
many people, or never been in a change room with
so many people, but all I wanted to do was
just to send with them and share that moment with them.
So we were quite happy just sitting off in the
corner of the change room while everyone else was mingling
and all and around, like I just wanted to share
(47:53):
that with them.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
That's pretty cool. The day that he passed, what do
you remember from that day?
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Well, sort of the few months leading up to it,
I was sort of going either flying up or or
driving up and back so to try and spend whatever
time I could that he had left. But that day specifically,
I remember I woke up to my partner sort of
over me, sort of shaking me to wake.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Up, and I was like, what's going on? And she'd
just come back from the gym.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I'd had a miscall from my mum, but so mum
had been called Sarah and she said, oh, you need
to call your mom and I was like, okay, like
why and then I rang mum and she said, look,
Dad's taken a turn overnight. We're not sure how much
longer he sort of has left, And I said, right, well,
(48:46):
we'll be on the road in an hour, because at
that time, like we couldn't put Alfie into kennels or anything.
We couldn't get like a flight. Sort of last minute
timing wise didn't work out. And yeah, so then we
drove up to Rocky, which was like a seven eight
hour drive. One of my sisters was sort of messaging
me quite frequently throughout the day just to check or
(49:07):
where are you?
Speaker 5 (49:08):
How far away are you?
Speaker 1 (49:11):
And I remember we pulled into the hospital car park,
but then my two sisters and mum were out there
waiting and I went to get out and they said
stay seated, and I was like why and they said, oh,
Dad's gone. He's passed away about half an hour ago.
(49:36):
So yeah, to know that he knew that we were coming,
I think that was something.
Speaker 5 (49:49):
That I sort of took.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Like the fact that I didn't make it on time,
but the fact that he knew we were on our way,
that we were trying to get to him.
Speaker 5 (50:07):
Yeah, I can sort of live with that.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
But my sister said he also probably knew that because
I'd said to my sister that I don't know if
I can be in the room when he passes, because
I don't know how I would.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Survive.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
And my sister said to me that Dad must have known,
because he must have known that I didn't want to
be in the room, or that I couldn't have been
in the room.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
So he saved me from that.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
And I mean, the man's timing was impeccable in the
sense that that day was it would have been his
fortieth and through being in the workforce, it would have
been the same day that of his mum's birthday. It
was also the time he passed was at three forty five.
(51:14):
And when he was a teacher, he always did afternoon
bus Judy, and that was always when they knocked off,
so he clocked off for one more time.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
That's really beautiful, You're right, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 5 (51:40):
Miss him every day.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
He'd be so bloody proud of you. You know that, right?
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Oh yeah, all right, I need to go now.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Oh dear, So you remember him with the ladybugs. What
would it mean to win a World Cup wearing those
ladybug socks?
Speaker 1 (52:10):
I think it would mean the absolute world, not just
for me, but for the rest of our family as well.
I think, knowing obviously that the last game that he
saw of me live was a World Cup final, to
(52:35):
have him experience it in that way, it would be
super special.
Speaker 4 (52:41):
Just watching on from he'd just be kicking back.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
He probably would have got all the non cricket watchers
up there tuning in.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
Knowing him, although he was a very nervous watcher. So
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Back in the day before it was cricket on TV
and it was just the written ball by ball commentary,
the poor man couldn't even sit still. He'd be pacing
through the house. And yeah, Mum would say he was
a pain to watch with. He would always commentate. He
would always do this. She's like, just watch it ray.
(53:20):
So yeah, I'm not sure how he'd be going upstairs.
Speaker 4 (53:23):
Before I let you go, I want to ask you.
You've mentioned her throughout this entire chart, but your partner, Sarah,
your du to get married at some point when this
damn pandemic allows it. What does she meant to you
given everything that you've just spoken about, Because she's been
there to figuratively and literally hold your hand throughout the
whole ordeal.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
She's my rock, my savior in a lot of ways.
And look, I probably don't tell her enough.
Speaker 5 (54:00):
How much.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
She's done for me and how much she means to me. Yeah,
more than anyone she's She's been there through it all
and quite often as well, when like she's had to
hold the ford at home while I've been on the
road living a dream basically like, yeah, I've had my
(54:27):
struggles and my challenges, but knowing that she's always there
on the other end makes it all worth it.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
Well, now she has it on the record, she.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Does, and then I guarantee when I retire, she'd be like,
can you come out of retirement already?
Speaker 4 (54:45):
Can you go back and play? Seeing too much of
you now?
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (54:50):
Yeah. When I was injured and missed a recent series, she's.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Like, when are you going again?
Speaker 5 (54:58):
Which is exactly what my mum said to my dad
a few times. So it's like, well, great, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
We've built a life together and we're building a house. Now,
we've got our dog, we're going to get another one.
So it's like we've got our our life set up
and I can't wait to when my time comes put
up the boots in the cricket field that I can't
wait to spend more time with her.
Speaker 4 (55:23):
Are you going to have lady bugs at the wedding?
Speaker 5 (55:25):
Probably?
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah, there'll be a nod in some capacity, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (55:31):
Jess. Thanks so much for everything you've shared, for being
as honest and as open as you have, and for
all the highlights that you've provided all lust cricket fans
for so many years. And I'm sure there's still plenty
more to come. I know you're going to help a
lot of people with what you've shared today by being
as open. So thank you very much for doing it
with me.
Speaker 5 (55:51):
No, thanks for chatting with me, Thanks for giving me
the opportunity.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
Time, Thanks for listening to this episode of ordinarily speaking,
This episode is released almost two years to the day
since that magical afternoon at the MCG. The memory still
gives me goosebumps. What it meant to women in Australia
and all around the world, and as we now know,
one of the last major sporting events before the world changed.
(56:20):
Make sure you support the girls at this World Cup
in New Zealand. They're helping to change the world for
every sports loving little girl.
Ordinarily Speaking, I internalize my own personal identity struggles, but
now I'm speaking out to try and help others to
make sure they don't do.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
The same.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Time.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Hello and welcome to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. Jess
Jonason has been a part of the Australian cricket set
up for a decade, playing in all forms of the game.
Her success on the field is testament to her resilience
off it. Battles with depression and self identity led Jess
down a path where she's self harmed and abused alcohol.
(00:49):
All the while, Jess was also coming to terms with
her father's declining health. Jess shares her story publicly for
the first time in the hope of helping others. She
doesn't want anyone, especially kids, to feel as a lone
as she sometimes has. As you listen to this incredibly
honest chat, please remember there is help out there. Beyond
(01:10):
Blue dot org, dot au and Lifeline one three Double
one one four are just a couple of places you
can go. We caught up just before Jess departed for
the World Cup in New Zealand, which is happening as
this podcast is released. If you tune in to support
the girls and watch Jess play look.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Out for the Ladybug Socks. I hope you enjoyed the chat.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Well, I'm going to preface this chat by saying we're
both wearing masks because you're getting ready for a World
Cup and we're at the Junction Oval in Victoria, and
there's a little bit of you know, preparations going on
for the last of the Ashes, So there's a bit
of noise happening at the moment, So bear with us
if you hear the sounds of summer trucks, crickets, parrots, rollers,
(02:13):
those sorts of things. But Jess, thanks so much for
spending some time with us.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, it's a bit of chaos here, hopefully organized chaos,
though we.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Like a bit of organized chaos. You want to share
your story today, including some really personal things that you
haven't shared publicly before. I want to start by asking
why do you want to share your story?
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I think for me it's always been about trying to
help at least one person, because I know with some
of the things that I've sort of gone through or
experienced that it felt quite lonely at times that so, yeah,
sometimes it's nice to know that like, even though we're
an athlete or whatever, that was still human as well
(03:00):
and still go through all the same sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And he's off, Oh, he's going to star in this
podcast episode. I have a feeling. So it is it
about not feeling alone, I guess and the way that
you did.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, it is, and that there is help out there.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
There are other people out there that sort of experienced
similar things. So yeah, to sort of never feel like
you're the only one going through something.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Going back to when you were a little girl, you
had some inner struggles, tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, well, I guess being a girl growing up in
country Queensland, up in Rockampton and with my sport in
cricket that it's such a male dominant sort of arena
as well. So being a young girl, yeah, sort of
the access of playing cricket with or against girls was
just non existent. Just to play cricket alone, my parents
(03:53):
actually had to go and get I guess permission from
Catholic Education Queensland because I was at a Catholic school.
And yeah, the fact that we had to get permission
from such a high up organization for me just to
play a sport that I loved and I enjoyed because
it wasn't for girls. Yeah, it wasn't for girls. And
I vividly remember them telling me that, yes, you can play.
(04:14):
We give you permission to play, but you have to
wear the clothes that the boys wear. You have to
wear the shorts. And I was like, well duh. Like
I was like, I'm going to be out there and white.
I'm not going to get skin taken off my legs.
And I was like, I'm not gonna wear my.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Skirt out there to play.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So yeah, it was just looking back now, it's just
little comments like that just make me shake my head.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
How did that make you feel at the time.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
At the time, because I was quite young, I just
I was like, oh, great, they're gonna let me play.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
That's all I really cared about.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I just wanted to participate, I guess, in a sport
that I enjoyed and I loved and I happened to
be good at. I didn't care whether I was the
only one of my kind. I guess you could say
I was lucky. I had some really good support around me,
not only from my parents, from my family, but then
I had a local club coach up there, Scott Deith
who he was my only ever cricket coach up in
(05:02):
Rocky and he still follows my career closely now. So
he was a massive part of getting me and keeping
me in the game.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I feel like every episode I do of this, there's
always somebody like that that had you back at the beginning.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I mean, he still to this day underestimates the importance
that he's had on my career. But yeah, every time
I would go back home, he's like, oh, you bring
in your kit, do you want to throw, do you
want to have a bad or whatever.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
So that's pretty cool even now.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
So the Catholic upbringing, how else did it impact you?
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Obviously, Yeah, when I was sort of much older, around
seventeen eighteen, so I had some elements of I guess
self discovery and figuring out my sexuality as well. So
that was a big one for me that he Obviously,
growing up in the country, traditional values, Catholic school, the
idea of homosexuality just wasn't really a thing. So yeah,
(05:57):
that was one thing for me going through that phase
of my life that Yeah, it was pretty confronting at
the time, but I was once again fortunate that I
had some really good support around me with my partner,
who I met in twenty twelve.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
It was now, so that's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So yeah, Sarah, she's her and her family were very
good to me, particularly because when I as soon as
I finished school in twenty ten, I moved down to Brisbane,
so I was away from my entire family.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
It was just me.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So yeah, meeting her a few years later really really
almost saved me in a way.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
When you say self discovery and thinking about your own identity,
what sort of thoughts were you having at the time
as far as how you were feeling about yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I guess it was a bit of confusion in a
way that I knew sort of that I liked women
or how I felt there, but at the same time
there was struggles sort of within my family around acceptance
of it. So then I sort of felt, well, I guess,
is this the wrong thing? Like am I doing the
(07:03):
wrong thing by my family or whatever? But then at
the same time I was like, well, I don't want
to sacrifice my happiness just to make somebody else feel
better about the situation. So yeah, there was a lot
of sort of mental struggles in that sort of phase
as well that I yeah, turned to things that weren't
(07:23):
healthy for me, whether that be sort of drinking a
bit or at different times some self harm because I
just wanted to focus on something different or feel something different.
And it was a very confronting time of my life.
But yeah, very fortunate that I was with my partner
at the time that I realized that, yeah, there were
(07:45):
some pretty amazing things still happening in my life regardless
of the conflict in a way that was sort of
between some members of my family at the time.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
That must be incredibly tough because you're close with your family, yeah,
love them, So how do you reconcile with that?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Well, I was sort of just thinking, well, it's just time,
like always being told time will heal most things. So,
and I mean one of my sisters, Laura, I'm probably
the closest with her out of my two sisters, and
I sort of told her that I was like, I'm gay,
and she was so supportive of me, and she's like, well, yeah, duh,
(08:27):
Like it's almost like she just knew. And then that's
the thing that like, I was such a tomboy growing up.
I played cricket, I had short hair at different times,
like I mean, stereotypically, but then it's like just other
certain things that it was just like just precursors that
almost just led her to believe that, well, yeah, this
is who you are and I love you no matter what.
(08:48):
So I think having her support and her voice sort
of up at home with the rest of my family
should have probably helped that process in a way. And
I vividly remember that when the rest of my family
sort of found out that it was a week or
so before I was heading overseas for a cricket trip.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
So I just thought, well, you, beauty, this is great.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Like I can sort of escape it in a way
that I'm not big on conflict, so I just sort
of just put it on the back burner and I
was like, well, they can deal with it because I've
come to terms with this is who I am and
I'm happy. Yeah, it was sort of it just one
of those things that.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
I was really firm in the belief as to who
I was with that part of my life.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Do you remember your parents' first reaction.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I remember having some long conversations on the phone with
Mom at different times, like a few arguments I think
there was one time that she was like, I love you,
but so there was always that one and like it
did hurt a little bit because I was sort of like, well,
I don't want to lose my family over this, but
at the same time, like they need to accept it.
(09:56):
I mean they have now, Like it was sort of
just in that moment that, yeah, they were making it
sort of about them and thinking that they failed as parents,
which I think that's just the traditional values that they
were brought up on, and like I touched on before that,
like being in a regional area in the country that
(10:17):
it was just homosexuality just wasn't necessarily a thing, or
it wasn't sort of out there in people's faces, or
people weren't exposed as exposed to it. So yeah, I
think initially they were sort of just a bit taken
aback by it, and it was very hard at the
time because I know that Mum was like, well, I
(10:37):
love you, but obviously I want different things for you whatever.
I was like, well, if you love me, how you're
acting now is going the right way about pushing me away.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
If you love me, then this is like you love me.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I think she was just worried that I'd be just
labeled as Jess Jonason, the lesbian cricketer.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
But I remember telling her that some.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Of the most successful female cricketers just happen to be gay,
Like they're not known as this person like oh, Alex
Blackwell the gay Captain of Australia or whatever, like, it's
just that's just part of who they are.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah, and feeling safe in that environment is a great thing.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, exactly, And that's probably one of the biggest things
that it's like the obviously there's the stereotype that female
so many female athletes are gay or lesbian or biosexual
or whatever, but it's probably just comes across that way
because it's an environment where people feel safe to fully
(11:42):
express themselves and be genuine and be exactly who they are.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Are there any moments he's off again, caep it down, mate,
Come on, Are there any moments that stand out to
you that you really felt like you had to hide?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Like I'm generally a relatively private person anyway, so I
never really sort of felt like I had to hide
in a way. There was probably just parts of my
life that I just chose not to share with people.
From that, I probably then started to believe that I
was only a certain type of person in the sense
that well, when I was just a cricketer and that's
(12:29):
all the conversations with people.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Around me revolved around.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, sort of in the outside world, it was sort
of it wasn't really something that I guess for a
long time was deemed marketable in a way, so I
just kept it to myself.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
God, that's a tough thing to say, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, Like, and I mean like I get it to
an extent, but at the same time, it's sort of, well,
there's so many different types of people in the world
that why you sort of only wanting to try and
appeal to a certain type or certain audience.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Yeah, it's sort of.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That was quite challenging at a time that I was like, well,
who I am isn't Sometimes it feels like who I
am isn't good enough, or isn't something that or someone
that you can put out there to be like, Hey,
we're proud of who this person is, Like, if you
want to be like them, we support that you. And
(13:26):
the thing that I keep coming back to is you
as the little girl, and if you as the little
girl had someone like you with your experience and in
the Australian cricket it's you know, you're basically part of
the furniture.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Now Australian cricket. Speaking as honestly as this, when you're
a little girl, I would imagine that would have meant
a lot to you. When you think about the little
girl that you were, what do you wish you could
say to her?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, well, it's funny you say that, because I did
sort of have somebody like that who I've never actually
told her that she had this impact on me, to
be fair, but it was Alex Blackwell. I remember being
on a tour and it was back in the time
when we had roommates and stuff, and she was somebody
that you could just have an open, honest and genuine
(14:12):
conversation with about anything and she listened. And obviously for
me when I was in the Australian stuff for the
first time, I was this young sort of nineteen year
old and she'd had a wealth of experience, she'd been
there many years before, and just having conversations with her
about just being authentic and being who you are and
(14:34):
being proud of that. That that was always the way
that I felt when I was talking or I was
around her, and she actually said to me after one
of our domestic games against New South Wales actually that
she was like, oh, she noticed a change in me
that I'd gone from being quite reserved and my cricket
(14:58):
was sort of just like plateauing, just going along. And
then after a little while when I started sort of
giving a little bit more of myself and about I
guess that side of myself that I was in a
same sexual relationship and all of this, that she was like, Yeah,
you just seem so much more. You just seem happy,
like you just seem more you, and that in itself,
(15:24):
I was sort of a bit of a light bulb
moment that I was like, well, hey, people like this
actually notice this change in me, that this is actually
something that's like positive and something that's for the better.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
That I need to do more of it. So I
guess for me.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
That if I had something like that even a few
years earlier, that I would have felt so much more
comfortable with sharing myself with everyone, like around like with
the world that I was like, well, no, this is
who I am. I'm proud of who I am. And
I guess that's the point where I'm at now that
(16:02):
I was never ashamed of it.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
I was never I never felt like.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I was not being true, but it was sort of just, Yeah,
when you have people in I guess the organization you're
a part of that make you feel never intended to,
but make you feel like you're not as worthy as
somebody who in a I guess a heterosexual relationship, it's
(16:29):
like you just keep trying to put it down, put
it down, push it down further. So yeah, to have
someone like Alex who was so open and vocal about
who she was and proud of that, then yeah, it
had a massive impact on me and making me want
to be that open and proud and sort of feel
like it's my responsibility in a way to help any
(16:54):
other young Like it doesn't have to be a young female.
It could be a young male or somebody who is
questioning their sexual identity or gender or anything that it's like, well,
who you are is okay, who you are is enough.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
What a powerful gift that Alex gave you and that
you're going to give to other people, There's no doubt
about it. You spoke earlier about the self harm aspect.
How did that come about for you?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Yeah, well that for me was probably it was more so.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
To try and feel something different than what I was
sometimes just actually to feel something at all. That I
went through a few phases of some depression, But then
that aspect of it was something that I never really
even shared with some psychologists at the time, so that
was still something I was trying to battle with internally.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
That because obviously the perception of it.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Being bad or that you're self harmed to try and
suicide sort of thing, but it wasn't at that point,
and it wasn't for those reasons. And also the thing
that it's like, well, being a teenager, have some typical
teenage I guess phrases or things that people throw around
is that you're just doing it for attention, which.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Was never the case.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I'm never somebody I never want to be a center
of attention for anything.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
So I was like, well, why would I do it
for that reason?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And I guess for me, I knew that's not why
I was doing it that yeah, and it was sort
of it was never major things, but it was.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Like maybe sometimes I'd have.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Like a little knife from the kitchen or whatever, if
I was on tour on my own in a spot
that only I'm going to see it when I'm in
the shower sort of thing, and always doing it in
places that I know are always covered up other than
like if my partner was there or would see or whatever.
Then like I remember making up stories that I was like, oh,
(18:59):
I dived the cricket field and something scratched me or whatever,
and like that in itself didn't feel right lying to
her early on, but that side of it, I was
a bit embarrassed in a way that I got to
that point, but at the same time in the moment
that it's the only way I felt like I could cope.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
So was it a pressure release?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Is that?
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Yeah? Probably in a way.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Stuff was like built up in me and I was like, well,
I needed to do something. And if it wasn't that,
then I was craving a drink every day and I'm
not a big drinker, but I'd wake up in the
morning I was like, I just want to have a drink,
And I mean there was something when I wouldn't because
I knew I couldn't. So then that was the next
(19:44):
best option that I saw at the time, And like
I'd never it would never get to the point where
it's like I'd drink and get drunk. It was just
I needed something to just level me out a bit.
But then yeah, it got to the point where I
was like, well, I was doing that day on day
on day that it's like I just needed a drink.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
To cope numb of the pain.
Speaker 5 (20:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, Like it's crazy to be like thinking about it
again now that it's like I was in that that
period of my life where I just that's literally all
I could think of and it's the only way I
thought I could cope.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
How is it talking about it and thinking, like really
thinking about it. It's very confronting, and it makes me
realize how much I actually do keep to myself that
it's HiT's something that my partner and I have spoken
about a bit in the sense that I've asked her
to open up to me a bit more. And then
(20:47):
on the same foot, I'm not actually doing that myself,
or as much as.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
I thought I was.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, the fact, like very early on, like I said
that I kept things like that from her, but I
ended up telling her like a number of years ago.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Timing is not my strong point.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Because I'd had a few drinks and it was Christmas day,
and I've thought it was the right time to tell her, Hey,
this is what I've done, and yeah, like it wasn't
great for her, like she felt like she had failed
me in a way that I didn't feel comfortable enough
to tell her before I got to that point that
(21:25):
try and get let her help me. And I never
wanted to burden anybody. That was my thing, and that
was something that my dad was always strong on that
he just never wanted to put anybody out. So I
think I guess I sort of got that trade off
him a little bit that I was like, no, it's my.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Battles, I'll deal with it myself, which.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
In hindsight and now is that I've learned is not
the way to go about it. That there's people around
you that love you and want to support you that
sometimes you don't know how they can help or how
you can help yourself, which is off and the hardest
part that it's like, well, what do you.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Need from me?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And my response quite often was I don't know, and
it's okay to not know, but it's just sometimes knowing
that that person is there is enough.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
I guess it wasn't necessarily like a pride.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Thing that I didn't want to tell people that this
is what was going on. Like I was always self aware,
but a lot of the time, yeah, I just never
actually knew the right way to deal with it or
cope with it.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
It's a confronting thing.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
Say, it's very confronting.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
When was it at its worst for you.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
In terms of this self harm stuff in itself was
probably a number of years ago now, which I'm proud
of that I've sort of overcome that part of it.
But then, yeah, probably as recently as twenty eighteen was
(22:59):
a very tough year for me as well, in the
sense that in and around sort of cricket related stuff
that well, I'd had a really solid preseason.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
I'd worked exceptionally hard, and I was.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
In the form and the physical peak of my career,
and I was feeling really good, and we were preparing
for a T twenty World Cup in the West Indies.
And then a couple of weeks or just under a
month before we went away, we had a training camp
and just chasing after a ball as I normally would,
and felt something going my knee and I couldn't put
(23:34):
any weight on it at all. And with me, I
have a pretty sketchy history of knee issues.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
So yeah, I ended up getting a scan.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
And how many of you done, I've had four, so
I've had two on each leg now, so.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You're fair share.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah that was hard in itself, like I've had my
history of injuries throughout and but yeah, for this, the
fact that I'd worked so hard I was in the
position that I was, and then I broke down just
before a major tournament, and I mean I managed to
work hard to get on the plane to go to
that series and didn't end up playing a single game,
and ultimately the girls won the World Cup. And I
(24:13):
remember being over there that I just felt really hollow,
really empty, and I felt bad for that because I'm
a real team person, Like I loved that the girls won.
I knew all the work that they'd put in, but
then I was like, well, I contributed nothing Like That's
how I felt like. I felt like I was just
(24:33):
a spare part over there, that what I had done
to get there didn't matter. And that was a hard
thing to have the battle through when I was so
far away. I was on the complete other side of
the world. I was so far away from everybody who
cared about me, loved me, my support network. The time
(24:54):
difference was awful, So I'd talked to my loved ones
like maybe twenty minutes a day, sometimes not even at
all for a few days. So yeah, that was probably
probably one of my lowest, if not the lowest points
that I felt when I was away on that tour.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
And so how did it manifest itself on that tour?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Yeah, well, it.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Got to the point where there's actually another player and
I we both didn't play a single game and we
ended up probably surviving that tour on rum and dry
hum or, drinking pina coladas on the beach. That there
was often that I'd say, oh, yeah, it's a virgin
pina colada, but knowing full well it wasn't. Yeah, it
was like, oh, well, like we're just here pretty much
(25:42):
to make up the numbers.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Like that's sort of just how it felt.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I sort of lost my identity in a way, I
guess you could say that so often I was known
as Jess Johnason, the cricketer, and when I wasn't out
in the field, I wasn't performing, I didn't have anything
really to talk to people about in terms of performances
or whatever, because I was like, well, I didn't have
any part to play, So if I'm not playing cricket,
(26:06):
then who the hell am I? Particularly when you're in
a bubble right or you're on or to, everything just amplifies.
I just felt so trapped. I just wanted Every day
I woke up and I cried because I just wanted
to go home. I've never been at that point before that.
I've loved playing cricket. I've loved representing my country like
(26:30):
my family, and yeah, to not want to be there
it was really hard.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Was part of it that if you're not the cricketer,
then who am I? And then I have to deal
with the real stuff as well, the stuff that you
sort of had spoken about earlier.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, it's just well there was so much extra space
to think or overthink or yeah, like you said, like
have to deal with or have to confront that. Cricket
was almost the distraction away from all of that stuff.
Even if I was performing badly or whatnot. It's just
(27:12):
I still loved being out on the field.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And there was something to focus on it.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, there was something to actually put my energy or
my attention into. But when I didn't have that, I
was like well, I didn't want to do anything. There
was a lot of tears, there was a lot of
sort of disengaging. Yeah, I just didn't feel comfortable sort
of around the group because like I was feeling so
(27:39):
low and so negative. But then at the same time,
I had thirteen fourteen other girls that were actually preparing
for a world tournament, that they had their attention and
their focus on something positive.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
But then I was feeling like that that.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I was just I just thought the best option was
to just stay in my room and not really come out,
because at times when I did, I felt like I
had to put on a front, and that in itself,
when I was feeling so low and not much energy,
I didn't have much else to give. So I'd get
(28:18):
back to my room and I'd just be completely exhausted.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
In hindsight, do you think you would depressed?
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, And I guess for me, like, I was just
so fortunate that we had our team psych that traveled
away with us that he almost forced me to have
conversations with him early on because he could see it.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
He'd seen me.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I'd been speaking with him probably a year or two
prior to that, and he noticed the change in me,
He noticed the difference. Yeah, the fact that he forced
me a few times to do it was probably something
that yeah, I thank him for now.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Saved Yeah, definitely saved me because I would have been, like,
there's a time where.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I was I was looking up flights out of try
and get myself out of there.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Do the girls know now what you went through then?
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Not to that extent?
Speaker 4 (29:13):
No, how do you think they're going to feel when
they listen to this?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Probably wish that I spoke up to some extent, Like
I don't know, it's always a hard one. Like our
group is so supportive, which is why me not sort
of sharing much of this at the time.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It seems a little bit hypocritical in a way that
it's cycle. We say, yeah, if you're struggling, like speak
up and whatnot, but it's like the physical act of
doing that is actually really challenging. And I think for
me it was never like, oh, I don't want to
speak up because I'm afraid that I might not get
selected because they see me as mentally fragile or whatever
(29:57):
that I'm not mentally tough. But yeah, it's sort of
it just goes to show that, like, people only see
the version of you that you wish them to see. Yeah,
I know the girls would have wished that I'd spoken
up a little bit more about it so that they
could feel like they helped that I felt less lonely,
but I didn't want to detract from what their job
(30:19):
was to win.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
How did you get through it?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Well, it was a lot of thanks to Pete Peter Clark,
our team's site. I probably caught up with him every
few days at one point on that trip, and we
actually did a few workshops when I got to the
point where I could actually speak when I was with
him that there were times at the start where I
caught up with him and he asked me how I
(30:42):
was going.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
I literally just cried.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I couldn't I couldn't actually put a sentence together because
there was just all this built up emotion because I'd
just been on my own in my room. I'd shut
myself off. So with him actually asking me how I was,
it's just just all came out at once. And Yeah,
(31:04):
we eventually got to the point where we could do
some workshop sort of stuff in the sense that figuring out, well, okay,
who is Jess Jonason away from the cricket field, and
he made me realize all the great things that I
do that don't actually involve cricket, all the great relationships
I have that aren't with cricket people. That in itself
(31:26):
was so powerful for me. It was so easy to
stay wrapped up in cricket because that was my environment
at the time, and I lost sight of everything else
that was outside of that, that actually is more a
part of me than what cricket is.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
So who are you?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a partner,
I've completed a law degree, I've completed multiple sort of
uni degrees and grad certificates, like I'm a dog.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
Mum as well.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Like so, yeah, there's so many, so many different aspects
to me that, yeah, more than just cricket.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
How are you doing now? Is your mental health something
that you need to check in on daily or how
in your words are you doing now?
Speaker 5 (32:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Well, it's something that is an ongoing I wouldn't say battle,
but it's an ongoing thing that I need to continuously
check in on.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
I journal a little bit.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I used to do it quite regularly when I was
sort of at my worst, and then there was times
when I just I completely stopped because I felt like
I was fine and I was tracking really well. But
then yeah, it's sort of it's something that I know
helps me, so I try and keep on top of.
Whenever I've got long tours, particularly when I'm away from home,
(32:53):
is probably when.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
It's some of its hardest.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Particularly in the current climate with COVID that we're in.
We have heavy protocols that we're not allowed out too much.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
We have to sit in standard masks on apart going through.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, so it's like there's so many extra things that
sort of make you have to be I guess internal
with a lot of things. So it's so, yeah, journaling
for me is something that's actually really helped me, and
then actually just making the conscious effort there when somebody
asked me how I am, particularly somebody that's important to me,
that I tell them the honest answer, and quite often
(33:33):
some ways that I phrase it is sort of if
somebody asked me I was like, I'm not, like, are
you okay?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
I was like, not really, but I will be.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Then if they want to sort of know more help
more than I was like, then I say it. But
something my partner actually says to me, She's like, I'm
sick of having to wait to prompt you. But for me,
it's like that's just how I've always coped that. It's
like I've always been internal and trying to deal with
things on my own. That it's like, well, I'll tell
(34:02):
you what it is you want to know, whereas now
it's like I'm trying to do that slightly differently that
it's like, well, be a bit more open about it.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
When you speak of the journaling when it was at
its worst, what was some of the things that you
were saying to yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
There was times when I said I was worthless or
that I felt worthless anyway, that is cricket for me,
Are you doing the right thing? I really don't want
to be here, And by here, it wasn't I don't
want to be here on the earth, it was I
don't want to be here in this situation. Like when
I was going through knee issues as well, it was like, well,
(34:42):
you're not fit enough. Yeah, there was so much negative
talk that was going on, and whenever I was told that, oh,
you're valuable to us, I never believed it.
Speaker 5 (34:54):
I was like, well, prove it so many things.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah, are you better now with that sort of sof
talk or do you still have your moments as well?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Oh? I think like most humans, you still have your moments.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
But I think I'm much better at catching myself now
and redirecting thoughts, because that was another big thing for
me that it was why I was feeling like I
had no energy for so long, was because I was
constantly fighting certain thoughts or emotions as opposed to just
accepting that they were there and trying to redirect to
(35:26):
something more positive. It's sort of just because I felt
a certain way didn't mean I had to act a
certain way, And that was a big thing for me.
That was sort of, well, Okay, I feel angry or whatever,
but I'm not going to punch a wall. I feel angry,
but it's like I can channel that into writing words
on paper, and then I've processed it.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
I've got it out.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Whether I believed what I was writing or not was
irrelevant at different points. It's just that was the outlet
that was the positive outlet.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
That makes a lot of sense. Tell me about the
photos that you take on to her now.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Yes, I've printed some photos of both ones. Of like
my family, my dog ALFI ones with my partner and
I put them on the wall in whatever hotel room
I'm in. There's probably only a handful of maybe eight
or so, but they're a constant reminder for me of
things that I have outside of cricket, or things that
(36:22):
I have that are at home that aren't physically with.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Me in that moment.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
And I only have one specific sort of cricket related one,
which isn't really cricket related, but it was after we
won the T twenty final in Melbourne when we were
all dancing on.
Speaker 5 (36:39):
Stage with Katie Perry.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
So that's the only sort of cricket related one I
guess I have, but it's still something that reminds me
of all the amazing things that I've sort of experienced
or doesn't matter what the lows I had, that this
is how I came through the other side.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
That was a pretty cool moment.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I did remember actually saying to my partner because she
was down there with my family as well, and I
said to her when we came into the change rooms after,
I was like, I'm sorry, babe, but I don't think
our wedding day is going to top this, and I mean,
I think I jinxed it because we've postponed twice now
that we're still waiting.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Waiting for Katy Perry to come see exactly.
Speaker 5 (37:22):
She's not sing at the wedding now. She laughed and
she's like, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
I videoed you girls on stage that night and so
doing the worm and things like that, and I think
that video has got more views than anything I've ever
done as a journalist.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
We were like little school girls.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
It was.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
It was so bizarre that you had all these mid
twenties year old girls and we just behave like we
were five year olds again. It was so good and yeah,
it's a memory that will live with me forever.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Jess Jonathon In. Amongst
everything that you've already spoken about before, that West Indies
tour was also the time that you were coming to
grips with your dad's diagnosis. Tell me a little bit
about that and how you found out about that.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, a number of years ago Dad was diagnosed with
lung cancer and we were all very shocked by it
because sort of he was a non smoker. He was
a fit, healthy guy. There was no sort of precursor
as to why he should have got that diagnosis, and
he'd actually had this prior to him going and getting
(38:42):
checked out. He'd had this sort of persistent little cough
for like months and months. It was so annoying that
we were like, seriously, go to the doctor and go
and get checked out. But he was never, Like I said,
he never wanted to put anyone out and he always
question because he before he was a teacher, he worked
in the health system, and he was like, nah, don't
(39:05):
don't believe in it sort of thing, like they're wasting
my money, and.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
Probably like a typical middle aged country mail that it's like, nah,
she'll be right.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
We can both say that because we both come.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
From the countruly, so yeah, it's sort of It took
him a long time before he got checked out, whether
it was the matter that he was scared of what
it might have been, or whether it was what he
was telling us that nah, she'll be right sort of thing.
I'll do all this other stuff to get it fixed,
(39:39):
but none of it was working. So We're in the
middle of one of our WBBL seasons and I remember
getting a message from Mum being like oh, can we FaceTime?
You make sure Sarah's their sort of thing as well.
I was like okay, like, oh, I wonder what this is.
And I got on FaceTime and the rest of my
family were there, and I was like, what's happening here?
(40:01):
And Dad then went to tell us what the diagnosis was,
that he had cancer, and he couldn't actually get it out.
He just it was probably one of the first times
I'd seen him cry, and my whole family was just
in tears at the time. And I remember I didn't cry,
like I didn't know what to believe and I didn't
(40:26):
know what to feel that. I was just like, well, okay,
what's what now, Like what's next sort of thing, thinking
that it wasn't something that was Yeah, it was cancer,
like nobody wants to hear that word. But I was like,
it's my dad, Like he's strong, he'll he'll fight it, it'll
be fine. But then they said the extent that it
(40:46):
was at it was, I think they said it was
either stage three or stage four by that point, and
I was just like knowing that then that meant that
stage three or four lung cancer, that was maligue, that
means it's fatal. That was like, okay, but what's the
(41:08):
like still, what's next? Like how can we prolong this?
Like we want old age to kill him, not cancer
to kill him sort of thing. That. Yeah, it was
a very very hard thing to take, and I think
I was in well, I know I was in denial
for a large part of those last four last few
(41:29):
years from from hearing that what did your dad mean?
Speaker 4 (41:33):
To what was he like as a bloke?
Speaker 5 (41:37):
He was He was a bit of a hard ass
in a way.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I think for him, like with his upbringing and how
he was brought up, how he was made a lot
of sense that he was made to work for every
little thing that he got. He loved us, and we
all knew that how much he loved us, But he
was never the most affectionate per and I think at
(42:02):
times like he sort of he sent messages or wrote
letters sort of like closer to sort of when he
passed it, it was almost like he regretted not giving
us more hugs or telling us how much he loved us.
And I just remember saying to him that it's like
you didn't need to do all that.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
I just knew.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
So it's like he would constantly when I was first
playing cricket. We would go down to the local nets
for like on three hours. I would bat for probably
an hour of that. At the start, he would bowl
every type of delivery, and then he would bat so
I could bowl, and then he'd bowl again. And not
(42:43):
once did he complain about that. He loved it, probably
more than I did at different times, and he would
get up early and take me to the gym. He
would take my sisters to swimming carnivals. He took some
jobs overseas so he could earn some more money for us,
for us to do sport, or us to live a
(43:04):
good life. Like we weren't rich, but I see as
as we were wealthy. We were wealthy with his love,
with their support, and with experiences that I remember sort of.
Not long after he passed, I just felt, or even
a little bit before, I felt a bit robbed in
a way of time with him, in the sense that
(43:27):
I was the only one out of my family that
wasn't still living up at home. I didn't get to
spend that time with him in my teenage years or
my early twenties that could go and do things with
him or have the conversations with him that you meant
to have with your dad. But at the same time,
I was like, well, I got all that extra time
when I was younger at the cricket nets or learning
(43:49):
to drive. He'd specifically take coaching jobs in teams I
was a part of so he could come away. So
it's things like that that I was like, Oh, I
actually did get to spend that time with him, but yeah,
it's sort of yeah, I miss him every day.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
Was a biggest fan and critic as a.
Speaker 5 (44:12):
Without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I've actually I've described him as that exactly.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
That he was.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Always, yeah, my biggest supporter, but my fiercest critic. Some
of the messages I would get after games, it was
so funny that, even to the point now my mum
tries to send some that is like this is your
father speaking ahh. But I think when he passed that
was one thing I probably had missed the most, was
(44:44):
the messages postgame analyzing either the game or my performance.
It's those little things that, yeah, I miss all the time.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Leaves a hole.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
It's a massive hole, like I always feel like they'll
be there, will always be a part of me that
will feel broken because he's not around.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
What do you do now to make sure that you
remember him each game.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Every time I step out on the cricket field, I
wear a pair of ladybug socks because for some reason,
he loved ladybugs and whenever he wrote messages, he would
always put a mountain of emojis in there, and a
lot of them never made any sense as to what
he'd just said.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
He just he showed his emotions exactly.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
But it's like some of the stuff he put in
there was so bizarre, but without fail, there was always
a ladybug in there. So one of my sisters actually
bought all of us a pair of ladybug socks.
Speaker 5 (45:41):
To remember him by.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
But yeah, she gave me her pair because she's like,
I know that you wear these every time, so here's
another pair so that you don't wear this one out.
And it's a little nod to him when I'm out
in the field that he's always out there with me.
And whenever we play a night game as well. One
thing we said to my young niece and nephew was
(46:05):
that if you ever miss data, like he's the brightest
star up in the sky, and whenever we play a
night game, I always look up to try and find
where that star is and city. If I take a
wicked I always look up and give a little nod
to it.
Speaker 5 (46:19):
Yeah, to feel and know that he's there still watching.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Banging away and now the parrots are going as well.
They love to share a moment in hindsight, How amazing
is it that he got to be there at that
twenty twenty mcg and watch his little girl, you know,
this big tough country dude watch his little girl in
front of a packed mcg living air dream. How special
was that?
Speaker 1 (46:45):
It was probably one of my greatest highlights, I think,
knowing that that was his last live game of cricket,
that he watched me play. Yeah, and that's actually one
of the photo I also have up on my wall,
so I lied, there are two cricket related ones, but
still has my family in it.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
That.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, how happy and how much pride he had. Yeah,
it's so special that he was there and he got
to experience it with the rest of the family as well,
and my little niece and nephew. There's a photo of
them holding the trophy at one point as well.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
And what did he say to you when you walked
off the field that day.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
He gave me a hug and he just said he's
so proud of me.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
It was so crazy that, like, I'd never had so
many people, or never been in a change room with
so many people, but all I wanted to do was
just to send with them and share that moment with them.
So we were quite happy just sitting off in the
corner of the change room while everyone else was mingling
and all and around, like I just wanted to share
(47:53):
that with them.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
That's pretty cool. The day that he passed, what do
you remember from that day?
Speaker 1 (48:00):
Well, sort of the few months leading up to it,
I was sort of going either flying up or or
driving up and back so to try and spend whatever
time I could that he had left. But that day specifically,
I remember I woke up to my partner sort of
over me, sort of shaking me to wake.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Up, and I was like, what's going on? And she'd
just come back from the gym.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I'd had a miscall from my mum, but so mum
had been called Sarah and she said, oh, you need
to call your mom and I was like, okay, like
why and then I rang mum and she said, look,
Dad's taken a turn overnight. We're not sure how much
longer he sort of has left, And I said, right, well,
(48:46):
we'll be on the road in an hour, because at
that time, like we couldn't put Alfie into kennels or anything.
We couldn't get like a flight. Sort of last minute
timing wise didn't work out. And yeah, so then we
drove up to Rocky, which was like a seven eight
hour drive. One of my sisters was sort of messaging
me quite frequently throughout the day just to check or
(49:07):
where are you?
Speaker 5 (49:08):
How far away are you?
Speaker 1 (49:11):
And I remember we pulled into the hospital car park,
but then my two sisters and mum were out there
waiting and I went to get out and they said
stay seated, and I was like why and they said, oh,
Dad's gone. He's passed away about half an hour ago.
(49:36):
So yeah, to know that he knew that we were coming,
I think that was something.
Speaker 5 (49:49):
That I sort of took.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Like the fact that I didn't make it on time,
but the fact that he knew we were on our way,
that we were trying to get to him.
Speaker 5 (50:07):
Yeah, I can sort of live with that.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
But my sister said he also probably knew that because
I'd said to my sister that I don't know if
I can be in the room when he passes, because
I don't know how I would.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Survive.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
And my sister said to me that Dad must have known,
because he must have known that I didn't want to
be in the room, or that I couldn't have been
in the room.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
So he saved me from that.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
And I mean, the man's timing was impeccable in the
sense that that day was it would have been his
fortieth and through being in the workforce, it would have
been the same day that of his mum's birthday. It
was also the time he passed was at three forty five.
(51:14):
And when he was a teacher, he always did afternoon
bus Judy, and that was always when they knocked off,
so he clocked off for one more time.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
That's really beautiful, You're right, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 5 (51:40):
Miss him every day.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
He'd be so bloody proud of you. You know that, right?
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Oh yeah, all right, I need to go now.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Oh dear, So you remember him with the ladybugs. What
would it mean to win a World Cup wearing those
ladybug socks?
Speaker 1 (52:10):
I think it would mean the absolute world, not just
for me, but for the rest of our family as well.
I think, knowing obviously that the last game that he
saw of me live was a World Cup final, to
(52:35):
have him experience it in that way, it would be
super special.
Speaker 4 (52:41):
Just watching on from he'd just be kicking back.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
He probably would have got all the non cricket watchers
up there tuning in.
Speaker 5 (52:52):
Knowing him, although he was a very nervous watcher. So
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Back in the day before it was cricket on TV
and it was just the written ball by ball commentary,
the poor man couldn't even sit still. He'd be pacing
through the house. And yeah, Mum would say he was
a pain to watch with. He would always commentate. He
would always do this. She's like, just watch it ray.
(53:20):
So yeah, I'm not sure how he'd be going upstairs.
Speaker 4 (53:23):
Before I let you go, I want to ask you.
You've mentioned her throughout this entire chart, but your partner, Sarah,
your du to get married at some point when this
damn pandemic allows it. What does she meant to you
given everything that you've just spoken about, Because she's been
there to figuratively and literally hold your hand throughout the
whole ordeal.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
She's my rock, my savior in a lot of ways.
And look, I probably don't tell her enough.
Speaker 5 (54:00):
How much.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
She's done for me and how much she means to me. Yeah,
more than anyone she's She's been there through it all
and quite often as well, when like she's had to
hold the ford at home while I've been on the
road living a dream basically like, yeah, I've had my
(54:27):
struggles and my challenges, but knowing that she's always there
on the other end makes it all worth it.
Speaker 4 (54:37):
Well, now she has it on the record, she.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Does, and then I guarantee when I retire, she'd be like,
can you come out of retirement already?
Speaker 4 (54:45):
Can you go back and play? Seeing too much of
you now?
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (54:50):
Yeah. When I was injured and missed a recent series, she's.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Like, when are you going again?
Speaker 5 (54:58):
Which is exactly what my mum said to my dad
a few times. So it's like, well, great, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
We've built a life together and we're building a house. Now,
we've got our dog, we're going to get another one.
So it's like we've got our our life set up
and I can't wait to when my time comes put
up the boots in the cricket field that I can't
wait to spend more time with her.
Speaker 4 (55:23):
Are you going to have lady bugs at the wedding?
Speaker 5 (55:25):
Probably?
Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah, there'll be a nod in some capacity, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (55:31):
Jess. Thanks so much for everything you've shared, for being
as honest and as open as you have, and for
all the highlights that you've provided all lust cricket fans
for so many years. And I'm sure there's still plenty
more to come. I know you're going to help a
lot of people with what you've shared today by being
as open. So thank you very much for doing it
with me.
Speaker 5 (55:51):
No, thanks for chatting with me, Thanks for giving me
the opportunity.
Speaker 4 (55:57):
Time, Thanks for listening to this episode of ordinarily speaking,
This episode is released almost two years to the day
since that magical afternoon at the MCG. The memory still
gives me goosebumps. What it meant to women in Australia
and all around the world, and as we now know,
one of the last major sporting events before the world changed.
(56:20):
Make sure you support the girls at this World Cup
in New Zealand. They're helping to change the world for
every sports loving little girl.
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