March 15, 2022 • 65 mins
#OrdineroliSpeaking Majak Daw has got a second chance at life and he’s using it to try and help others. In December 2018, Majak attempted to take his own life. Now, the first Sudanese born player in the AFL wants his little boy Hendrix to grow up in a world open to conversations around mental health. This is a story of a complex life, told in Majak's own words with incredibly raw honesty.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Orderary speaking, I'm known as the first Sudanese footballer, but
ultimately I'm a family man.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Fathering a son.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Takes time. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of
Ordinarily Speaking. I'm narrowly Meadows. Majack daw has got a
second chance at life, and he's using it to try
and help others. The AFL player wants his little boy, Hendrix,
(00:41):
to grow up in a world open to conversations around
mental health. Born in Sedan, Madjack spent three years as
a refugee in Egypt before relocating to Australia, where he
became the first Sudanese born player in the AFL. In
twenty fifteen, Madjack was found not guilty of three counts
of rape, dating back to an allegation from two thousand
(01:02):
and seven when he was sixteen years old. He now
believes that court case led to a severe decline in
his mental health. In December twenty eighteen, Majack attempted to
take his own life in a moment of clarity. He
immediately regretted the decision. As you listen to this episode,
please know Lifeline can be reached on one three, double
(01:23):
one one four. Beyond Blue dot org dot au is
another place you can seek help. This is a story
of a complex life told in Majack's own words. At
the heart of it all, the importance of family shines through. Well.
(01:49):
Thanks so much for agreeing to do this match. I
really appreciate it. I wanted to start by asking you
about your little boy, Hendrix. Biggest smile comes across your
face at the moment I bring him up. What does
he mean to you?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I mean, I just I don't know, like coming from
you know, one of nine kids, always always grown up
with having little little children in my family, and then
you know, when Hendrix came along, there was all these
sorts of I guess, uh fears, probably.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's the right word.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But as he's grown up, I've just I don't think
i've I've ever loved anyone as much as as I
love him. And yeah, he's just growing and just being
able to teach him things as he gets older. Every
time I see him, he runs over, it gives me
a cuddle and you know, kiss his dad and like
(02:46):
that's I never I never gave my dad a hug
when I was growing up. So yeah, he means it
well to me. Hendrix and.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Why did you never hug your daughter? Just wasn't the
way he did things.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Or it's really not in the in my culture to
show it, to show affection or anything like that. Even
growing up, I just just never saw examples of it.
But I mean, now I'll give my dad a hug
and you know, he might feel it a bit awkward,
but but yeah, just he's just so affectionate Hendrix, and
(03:20):
he reminds he reminds me of myself a lot, and
he's got so much love.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And yeah, is the best thing about being dad the
fact that you get to now make your dad jokes without.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, I think it's I can probably get away with
it now, and yeah, even though they're bad, but he's not,
he's not ready.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
To hear them.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Once you go to a dad joke around the footy club,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Know put me on the spot there, but I think
since since coming to Melbourne, a bit a bit of
Alarican when I was at North and you enjoy going
into the club and making the boys laugh. But as
I've got one of the older boys at Melbourne, I've
got an axles.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Got to be granddad instead of dad jokes. You sort
of mentioned it a little bit off the top. But
when you look at Hendrix and you reflect on when
you were a little boy and the relationship that you
had with your parents, how do you feel about yourself
looking back at that little boy.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You know, I was pretty lucky in terms of, you know,
what mom and dad were able to do for me
and my siblings. And you know, looking back, I remember
you'd go out and have days out. Dad would take
me to a museum or you know, go to work
with him on school holidays. So I did spend a
lot of time with my dad. But now when I've
(04:53):
got Hendrix, you know, it's sort of similar kind of thing.
He just wants to do things. He wants to go
out once, go footy, loves basketball. You know, I would
sit there even days when we don't go outside. He
is into Spider Man, loves Spider Man. So just been
able to do things with him. I'm just really proud
(05:14):
that someone like Hendricks is. Yeah, he's proud to call
me his dad, and he relies on me to do
everything for him. So I do I do really take
take pride in that, and it just reminds me of
what my parents were able to do to do for
me when I was younger, and yeah, it's my turn
now to sort of do that with my son.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
So what kind of advice would your parents give you
when you're a kid.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I was pretty naughty, so.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I didn't quite you know.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I hurt myself a lot when I was younger, so
my poor mum, she was in tears a lot, and
I just just had so much energy. So I kind
of a little bit like Hendrix now. And yeah, yeah,
but I guess it's probably taught me to just have
a go at things within reason, no fear, and barely
(06:05):
not back down. It's probably not the right word, but yeah,
I love it. And people doubt me and then I
prove them wrong. So that's what's kind of taught me
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
You've done that a few times. When you close your
eyes and you think back to sit, doan what springs
to mind for you? What sort of smells and senses
and memories.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I guess in the summer, it's really dry, very hot.
You know where we lived, just outskirts of the city.
You know that it would be so dry that the
ground will crack. You know, those sorts of things you
see in the at back and country. Victoria just very
dry and the wet season it rained heavily to the
point where there was an area in front of the
(06:51):
house and turned it almost it would turn into a
pond and it'd get all these birds and all these vegetation.
I guess it's more family when I look back. Yeah,
And that's when that's one of the biggest things I
sort of missed out on because you know, I moved
from Sedan to Egypt and now living here in Australia,
(07:12):
just not growing up with my grandparents, my cousins, although
I've got a big family, so it doesn't really seem
seem seem that much of a bit of a difference.
But those things that I could never missed out on.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
So I love when you talk about it, you sort
of look ahead of you as though you can imagine
that the pond of water in front, like you're back
there when you're looking back. How unsafe was it for
your family in Sadan growing up?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I was, I was relatively safe, but I think as
I got older started understanding, I guess the world around me,
and I was unfolding at the time, the Civil war
in Sedan between North and South, and you know, my
dad was heavily in the church. You know, he was
helping rescuing some of the kids who were becoming child soldiers,
(08:06):
and I saw a bit of that, and I think
in the book I do mention when he was arrested
by the government in the middle of the night, and
that's the reason why we left. In the end, it
just wasn't safe for our family. But I think he
spent around six months in prison, and I was shielded
(08:27):
a lot from all was happening. But I think around
seven or eight it's just started and I guess understanding
more and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How unsafe it was.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
But we were really lucky to be able to escape
down at that time, because as soon as we left,
it just the country wasn't safe and a lot of
people lost their lives and detained a lot of people
put in prison for very very minor reasons.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So what do you remember from that that night that
your like, when did you realize that your dad had
been taken?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I was really close. I mean I was obsessed with
my dad, and I was when I was young, and
you know, I was comeld. I was maybe seven or so,
and if I couldn't sleep some nights, i'd go and
sleep with my dad, and you know, it just happened
to me that night, and you know, there was a
big knock on the door and they came barging in
and soldiers with guns and took him in the back
(09:24):
of the back of the car and just remember running
after the car. And it's very clear that incident. And
I never asked him, you know, as I was growing
up about that about that incident or or never went
into too much detailed with him, but my older brothers
(09:44):
they filled me in with a fair bit. So and
then when I was writing the book, I was I
was finally able to, you know, ask him properly without
feeling like I am not disrespecting him, but yeah, because
it's not an easy conversation to have with you have
with your parent, and you know, the things he told me.
(10:05):
He was tortured in prison, had to walk around with
the toothbrush and just he just he just didn't know
whether he was going to come home that day, so
they told him he could be detained anytime. So I
just had to I just had to be really careful.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
So so you were literally laying next to him and
they essentially ripped him from your arms. Is that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, God, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, I mean, it's a it's one of those things,
and I mean, growing up over the years, I found
it hard to believe. But also it's also one of
those parts of my life that have I found really
hard to share with other people because of how really
(10:58):
how real it is. You know, people would think it's
something out of a movie. But I think that's why
I really, being a father to Hendrix, I just want
to you know, I just want to protect him as
much as I can and never have to never have
to go through anything like that with him or any kids.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I haven't going forward, so.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
That, Yeah, how did how did it feel when you
when you finally spoke to your dad about that? Because
I imagine you're you carry something like that internally, you
never talk about it and so it just sits there
for years. How did it feel to have that conversation
with him?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It was a bit of a relief, just just to
finally hear him speak about it. He was an uncomfortable
or anything, And I guess, you know, that's why I
look up to my parents. You know, he's throughout throughout
all my life, you know, everything that they've done for us,
and and to think, you know, there's some of the
(12:06):
challenges he's been through and to do with the brave
face raise nine kids travel across the world. Yeah, that's
again I gain a lot of my strength.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
From that.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Did you hug after that conversation?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
We shook hands?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Oh goodness, that's quite funny. Actually you end up in Egypt.
How many years were in Egypt?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
For three years?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Three years? And so you were still a little tacker
then around nine years of age, right, Yeah, How tough
was that? You write? You write in the book, which
the book is amazing by the way your voice really
comes through in it, which I think is the most
beautiful thing about it. Is it really you are telling
your story and it's such a strong voice. The time
(13:07):
in Egypt. How tough was that because you leave a
place where you know you're inherently unsafe and you get
to another place where you're made to feel ostracized and
suffer quite significant racism as well. How challenging was that
as a little kid?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, Like, it was really tough because I mean those
I think it was a period of six months where
it was just my mom and now and my siblings,
and I think just the living conditions, sharing sharing a
house with three other families, just never felt comfortable at all,
not at home, not in the street. The racism that
(13:43):
we faced. There was just so much hate towards people
like me at the time in Egypt, and there was
always a constant reminder to the point where I tell
my mom, yes, I know, because I guess for her
to let us at the house or go to the shops.
She was really scared. But although in saying that, I
think there were some great people we met along the
(14:04):
way in Egypt. But yeah, just the whole time, I
just never never felt comfortable until my dad, until he
came and he finally got a house. There was just
a lot of unrest and just so much stress between
the families. Yeah, until my dad came and we were
finally able to just have a house not have to
(14:26):
worry about, you know, sharing the living room with other people.
And you know that it's funny looking back because you
just slept wherever you could, you know, mattresses in the
living room.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So it's quite humbling.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So you use the word hate before that it's such
a strong word and to feel like there was hatred
coming towards you when you're just nine years of age. God,
how tough was that?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it was just it was just so hard to believe.
I mean, and in this and nine year old, I'm
not a threat to anyone. Yeah, like just you know,
maybe my skin color or the way I look, I
don't know, because I spoke Arabic. I mean I could
do everything and anything that any nine year old could
do an Egyptian kid, and.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Just that hate.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I mean, it's really tough. It's really hard to explain
because it's almost to the point where they don't want
you to exist. So but we had some fun in
Egypt as well. I mean used to play soccer in
the street and when Ramadan come around, you see the
goodness and some people's heart.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It was predominantly Muslim country.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But yeah, so you get to Australia and unfortunately here
there were still situations where we you copped that crap.
For anyone who is listening who just doesn't get it,
can you put into words how you feel or when
when somebody says stuff or does stuff that makes you
(16:04):
feel othered.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, Like, I mean there are examples, I mean from school,
even playing footy. It just sort of for some reason,
I mean like now I'm older, I mean I can
deal with it a bit better. You just you just
feel like you're not good enough. And it's one of
those things people will singly out about you, especially in
(16:26):
footy when it when it did happen when I was playing,
when I was playing footy, and you know, when I
came here, did and speak a word of English, you know,
finished school and all that stuff, playing AFL footy and
still there's just there's just that reminder maybe you're not
one of us, or you're not good enough, and you know,
(16:46):
that feeling is is quite painful to deal with.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
What's really stuck out to me when I was reading
your book was whether it was you know, in wart On,
Sudan or Egypt or Australia, or you know, first at
school or playing footy for the first time, all anyone
really wants in life is to feel accepted, to feel safe,
(17:11):
and to belong and that's anyone. Yeah, and all these
times it was like you were getting the complete opposite
of that. Does it take a toll on someone to
keep on copying that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah? It does.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I mean it constantly have to remind yourself to be
grateful for things, for me. I mean the things I've
been able to do and achieve in life, and you know,
I'm proud of some of them. I'm proud of I'm
proud of them.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
But now.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I'm really looking forward to seeing Hendrix growing up and
you know, just and less opportunities and go to school uninterrupted.
I want to play footy, go to UNI, do all
these do all these things that I am that I
missed out on.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And I think, you know, coming.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Back to your point where when there's when there's constant hardship,
all these setbacks, the reality is, I mean it's for
me deep down now, I know if I give up,
then I miss out on all those opportunities to be
able to try and achieve those things. You know, I
might not get there, but you know, at least I
I'll get closer.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, at least you gave it a crack. What were
your favorite things about coming here for the first time
in Australia. What were the things that you talk about.
You know that there's positives in amongst the hardships, you
smile on your face. What were some of the things
that you know, whether it's little little things as it,
you know, youngster, that you weren't. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think it's just the freedom really put aside all
the hardships that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
We've been through.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But I think living in the Egypt, it was just
it was just apartment There was never spaces, having a
big backyard, eating healthy food, things like that, and I
don't know, even you know, Mum and Dad driving us
around in the car. There was just there's just so
many things. Good healthcare, you know, even the ability to
(19:12):
be able to help out other family members who are
back in Sadan financially and you know, helping other families
come to Australia or organize their visas.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
My dad did that a lot.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So just being able to help other people because you know,
someone else gave us the chance, and I think it's
one of those great things that we've been.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Able to do.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
So I also think that one of the amazing things
out of everything that you've said is you speak three languages.
That's impressive. And they're not just like, oh, you know,
French and Italian all those sort of things, Arabic, DNA
and English all completely.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Fluently, all completely affluently.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Like that alone is I mean.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
English was pretty to learn.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Like the writing aspect of English, because there's just so
many ways to describe describe things.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We're in Arabic and Dinker.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
They're complex in terms of the writing and stuff, but
it's not you know, it's very direct. So yeah, that
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah. What do you speak with your family Dinker?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, some of my some of my siblings who who
were born in Egypt or when too young, they speak
a little bit of Dinker and English.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And your littlest brother, yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Was born here.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
He is half and halfs There's some things you can
say in Dinker and there'll beig conversations. Where's half Dinker
half English? You particularly in these cops in the household. Yeah,
it's just one of those things. I mean, it's that's
that's how he's grown up here.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
So would you want Hendrix to know how to speak Dinker?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, I would take him, take him to my mum
and dads when I when I get the chance. But
Hendrix is so auzzy, I mean, he's just he has
vegemindin vegemardin toast and wheat bogs for breakfast.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
He's I love the way you say he's so busy,
like I'm so disappointed.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
He's just I mean it's, you know, try our best.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
But I think I've got I've got I've got I've
got little nieces and nephews. He's got so much family
that he can grow up with, and I'm sure he'll
be able to pick up some words along the way.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, I love it. Reflecting back now, when do you
think your mental health took a turn?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I think it was after the court case twenty fourteen
or something like that. Back then, in hindsight, I should
have taken, you know, a bit of time away from
footy and go look after myself. It was just it
was just mentally and physically exhausting. An at the time,
(22:06):
all my teammates everyone were in Utah doing the preseason
camp while I was still back here. One of my
I was living with one of my teammates at the time.
He was away as also, so I was going home
each day and just on my own and dealing with
what's unfolded that day. It was probably lack of knowledge
and education around mental health. Because my management they advised me,
(22:30):
they said, look, if you need to take some time off,
take some time off. But I was also excited to
see the boys because I hadn't seen them for over
three weeks, and so I went got back straight into
training and I did the best I can and then
I guess over the over that little period till twenty eighteen,
some surgeries, you know, playing with the broken foot for
(22:52):
the whole season, getting an injection before every game and
then going home after games, you know AFL matches finished
pretty late, and having to deal with the pain, not
being able to go to sleep and all that stuff.
I just thought I'd be able to shrug it off
or cope, yeah, or go through it like any other
(23:14):
challenges that I've that I've that I've faced, But I
think this time around it was It's probably.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, it was probably too much.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So what do you think about the court case that
took its toll was because there's so many aspects of that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I think.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
The biggest thing is, you know, being accused of something
like that and not being given the chance to to
go through it properly. You know, the media were quite
we're quite nasty. I mean, I didn't mind it. It's
not that I didn't mind, but they can come after
me and stuff and stuff like that. But I think,
(23:54):
you know, there were there were mum and mum and
Dad's house, these cameras there trying to get a word
out of my siblings, and I really struggle with that aspect.
I mean, being able to play footy and having a profile,
but then also when it starts impacting other family members,
(24:15):
that was pretty hard to deal with.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, and then it just goes on your shoulders.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Then I feel like it's my responsibility, you know. I
guess if I didn't have the profile, I didn't play footy,
then they wouldn't put them in that position.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But although although.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know, I was innocent and found not guilty of
any of the charges, just the damage it's done to
my image. And I think that's one of those things.
I mean speaking to friends and family and then I'll
bring it up with them and they say, look, you know,
there's nothing, you don't need to worry about anything. But
(24:56):
I think people can be nasty, and you know, walking
down the streets or if I'm out somewhere, someone might
say a comment and do.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You still get that dude here and there?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, here and there.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But I think even they will forever be on the internet.
There's just some things that can't turn.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Back, can't be un said.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, So, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Think just the ability for people to write things about
you and there's no responsibility on their behalf.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
So yeah, from a mental health perspective, what were some
of the signs that you were seeing about yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I just stopped going home, seeking my family, withdrawing from friends,
and heavily drinking. This is later on twenty eighteen, and
I was just stop doing things that I really enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I used to go fishing a lot, Yeah, like as
make up excuses not to go see people. And I
was just spending a lot of time by myself. So
there were some of the signs.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
And yeah, when you say you're drinking too much? How much?
How often?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You know, even like twenty eighteen, that off season, I
was probably drinking a fair bit during the week. You know,
I knew well I shouldn't be, but you know, Emily
pulled me up a fair bit, and you know, would
have a friend's engagement or someone's birthday and I just
do it without even noticing, And it wasn't for enjoyment
(26:27):
or anything like that. So because you when someone tells
you something that's true and you know you deny it
and you know they're right. But yeah, so I felt
like I was doing that a fair bit. And yeah,
poor Emily, she had to put up with a fair bit.
And then at the same time, when I was doing
(26:47):
some work with you know, with the psychs and psychiatrist,
I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
I wasn't being truthful and as honest as as I
as I could have been.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Why not, do you think?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Ah, For some reason, I just thought, you know, I'd
just get through it in a couple of months and
I should be fine. I learned a lot working with them.
But then, you know, until until things got really serious.
Then I realized, well, I have to do this properly.
(27:20):
There's there's there's no other way around it but to
just be honest and truthful.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
So, yeah, how destructive with your behavior do you think
at the time, both to yourself and your relationships and
the people around you.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I was, Yeah, I was. I was.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I was a bit reckless, you know, because I wasn't
spending a lot of time with my family, and you know,
I was going out a lot with.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Some of the boys, and.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I guess every opportunity where I could, I was going
to a lot of events, and not that I needed
to you, but I guess it was just an excuse
to go and have a drink with.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, it was. It was reckless.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Why do you think you avoided your family and shut
yourself away from them when you reflect back at it now, what? Yeah,
what do you think it was?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
They know me pretty well, you know, like I mean,
I'm not I'm not a vocal person in social settings.
I'm usually pretty quiet, even if it's coming back this
pre season and seeing my family over the last a
little bit when we had off and mom and dad
are like, oh, you lost weight, I'm like, yeah, I've been.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I've been training.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
And even my sister the other day when I went
home and she's likes everything all right, I'm like, yeah,
I just just the whole COVID stuff, you know, isolating
for so long and so my family know when things
aren't going well, and that's why I avoided. I avoided
going home because I just didn't want to answer the
questions because eventually I'd have to tell them the truth.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
So do you wish it did now?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah? Definitely wish because I could have you know, I
could not have been around. And that's one of those
things I'm grateful for. I'm grateful for my life, but
also at the same time knowing if I asked my
family and my friends for help before things got really bad,
(29:17):
I knew they would to help me. And like I like,
I saw countless examples they really did pick me up,
and you know, they got me through some of the
worst times in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Madjack daw when you
were isolating yourself, what were some of the conversations you
were having with yourself in your own mind? What were
you telling yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Look, I mean it was just it was just creeping up.
I mean in terms of just I didn't want to
accept that, you know, until I had the conversation with
the club doctor. You know, just being able to utter
those words that you know, I think I've got the
depression or I think I've got poor mental health. It's
really hard to accept that's where you are in your
(30:07):
life because like the stigma around it, which is why
I wrote this book. I want that to change. It
doesn't mean, you know, you're any less of a human
or you're weak. And I think the best description I've
heard from my cycle is, you know, it's like professional development.
If you need some work around around your career, you
go and do a course, or if you need to
(30:29):
learn something, you go and learn it. That's exactly the
same with mental health, because if your mind is poor,
you've got poor mental health, then you can do something
about it. And then on, once you've done the work,
or once you feel confident enjoying life again, then you're thriving.
And I think that's one of those things I want
(30:49):
people with mental health issues to understand. When you're thriving,
I mean, your life is so much better. I mean
you go see your family, you catch up with your friends,
you drink responsibly.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, tell me about the first night that you tried
to take your own life of whatever you're comfortable sharing.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Look, that night was we just had a we just
had a friend's thirty, if you know, Like someone said
a comment about Emily and I said it directly to me,
and I just took that to I just took that
too literally, like took.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It to heart.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And when I look back, you know, like I barely
know this guy, So I could have just brushed it
off and not waded in too much into it. But
then around that time, that's when I was heavily drinking,
So I just continued drinking more and I told Emily
that I was going home.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I left.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I went home, and I started drinking more and my
thoughts got the better of me, and I took some
sleeping tablets and then finally realizing, look, I need I
need to tell someone what's going on. So I rang Joey,
(32:13):
I rang Pete, and then I rang another friend, Rory,
and they came around early that morning, and you know,
I just basically told them everything and they were very understanding.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
But yeah, I was just just at my lowest. Really.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I didn't go to training that day. I didn't go
to training the following day. I stayed home for a
couple of days, and Pete told the club that, you know,
I seek and stuff. So the next month was really tough.
I was in rehab, just had surgery on my foot.
I really struggled to the people in the eye at
the time because just just in case they might ask
(32:56):
us everything all right, and and then you know, either
lighted them more. So I've ordered eye contact a lot,
and I just found it hard to go into training
and do what I needed to dote. Pete encouraged me
to tell the coach and let him know what's going
on and speak to some of my teammates. But I
was just just scared how they'd perceive it and stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
So what were you mostly scared of?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Ah, just the questions? What am I struggling with? I
guess I was probably in my own mind really, because
you know, hindsight's a great thing because they whatever I
was scared of, it would have been there to help
me straight away.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
So what happens from there?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
You know, the drinking got worse. Like I was saying earlier,
I was catching up with the psych and just wasn't
being truthful and honest with them. And I remember Emily
and I we had a pretty argument.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
We came back from Balley.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
We had the miscarriage, and I was pretty tough just
just seeing her in that state where you know, we're
in a foreign country. Yeah, it was just just it
was supposed to be a celebration her mom sixtieth and
tend o to be this massive disaster, and we were
really vulnerable, both of us, and we're looking after each other.
(34:26):
And then we came back and I was still going
through my struggles and.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
We had an argument one night.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
She left and I continued drinking, and my thoughts got
the better of me, and yeah, that's when I decided
to jump in the car and I headed to the
balted bridge. So look, that person is me back then.
You know, it's pretty scary. I was what I tried
(34:56):
to do to myself. And I'm not that person anymore.
You know, it's I am, I'm thriving, I'm enjoying life.
But I learned a pretty tough lesson just because you
know the pain I put my family through, people around me,
(35:17):
but even myself, you know, the injuries that are sustained.
You know, it was really humbling getting around in a wheelchair,
spending a lot of time with elderly people. It was
like I didn't I don't belong here. But I think
I needed to do the work, you know, work on
myself because the psychiatrist said, you know, I'm not going
(35:41):
to put your medication if you, you know, do your
rehab to the best of your ability. And I think
three weeks, three weeks in hospital, I got off the medication,
the painkillers and stuff, and that was that was really challenging,
not being able to sleep at night, and I.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Just had to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And yeah, I celebrated the milestones, walking, running and all
this stuff. So, but you know, not everyone's as lucky
as I am in that sense. And you know, despite
being in the hospital for so long, and yeah, I
mean I know a lot of families family members through
(36:27):
mental health and stuff and those kind of things. You
know that they take my position and have their have
their family members here.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
So do you remember that night or is it a blur?
Like do you remember the moment?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I remember clearly. I think just the impact of the
water and I think because yeah, I think I blacked
out and then.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I just.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I just remember wanting to wanting to live, and just
to regret immediately after jumping. And but yeah, I think
it's it's just one of those things, you know, just
so lucky. I missed a pylon under the bridge by
(37:22):
a couple of meters.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
You know, in a in a in a tragic time
of my life, a lot of things went right.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
So you did you literally have a moment like when
you're falling and thought, I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, And I think it's it's not too you know,
I don't want not to encourage anyone to do anything
like that, because it's just realizing, you know, there's there's
no coming back, you know. So it's a that's one
(38:09):
thing that sticks in my mind quite clearly. You know,
if you're not around, you're not around, that's a that's reality.
And I think taking that type of risk, that's what
could happen.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
So just provided a sharp moment of clarity. Yeah, when
you say that the impact, when you say you remember that,
what do you remember from that moment just.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Hitting the water?
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I think maybe is because I couldn't sleep for a
while and I had had trouble going to sleep and
waking up and pull a sweats and I just just
kept kept on playing in my mind and it's just
the impact from my back and palvis breaking. So and
(39:01):
I think it's a, you know, one of those things
that I've learned to to to deal with and.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Not be okay with.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
But except that, that's they are the facts, and and
just work on myself.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, so you have nightmares about I used to Yeah,
how often would you have them?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I was regularly, Like I mean, it would be every
night because I try to do a lot of mindfulness
And even then I struggled to close my eyes because
that just that thought you'd just keep coming back to
my mind and I think instead of keeping that to myself,
I spoke to my psych and and he's, you know,
(39:48):
gave me some tools and helped me get through it
so well.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And you don't have to share what kind of tools
were you using it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
He just said to just try and just try and
work on your breathing, maybe do your mindfulness with your
eyes open, you know, doing puzzles.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Because I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, it's just because I had to fill in fill
in a lot of time, three times a day doing rehab,
and then when I'd come back to my room where
I was staying, there was a lot of downtime and
they had to really cut down the visiting hours because
I needed to rest. I think I was sleeping something
(40:36):
like three times a day, just learning how to be
okay to sit by yourself.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
For a period of time without going back to that thought.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, I was just that it's okay to be by yourself.
And because I mean, my family were terrified, you know,
they thought I was I would kill myself or try
to kill myself. And if I gave in to everyone worrying,
everyone worrying around me, at some point, I'm going to
(41:08):
start believing that.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
So I had to yeah, I had to really.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Trust myself and that that I'm okay to be alone
and everyone around me from then on will will be
comfortable leaving me alone or not speaking to me for
a couple of days because I was getting phone calls, text.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Message, fever checking in.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
It was kind of from a great place, but also
at the same time, I needed I needed to show
them that I can trust myself.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
So did you have to show yourself that you could
trust yourself as well? Yeah? Yeah, is that almost the
hardest person to convince.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeah, But like it was just the circumstances I was in.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I think because I think how old I think, twenty
seven at the time, relatively young and practicing gratitude things
that I'm grateful for in life, and I think I
didn't want to be in that position, and I wanted
to come back and play footy. So if I wanted
(42:16):
to do those things, I had to get better more
mentally than physically, because you know, as soon as my
mind's strong again, you know, I just improved so much
through my rehab.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Have the nightmare stopped or do you still get them occasionally?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
They've stopped? Yeah? Thank god?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, yeah, that's so good. So talking about stuff does
actually help, then it does.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, you've trust the right people.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
What do you remember from your first conversation with your parents?
Because they had no idea right that any any of
this was going through your mind.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
They had no idea, And I think I break my parents' heart,
and it's just one of those things that I minute
never be able to take back the pain that I've
put them through. Even Emily, they were really upset that
they were the first people that I came and asked
(43:21):
for help or told them what was going on. To
the point where my dad and I had a falling
out for a period of time when I was still
in hospital.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
That sounds like it was a really hard thing to
cope with on top of everything else.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I just thought he might sorry. At my lowest, I
thought my dad would I understand more and be there
for me. But also he was struggling with his own
the way I look at it, if Hendricks was going
through something like that, he'd come to me first for help.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
When you say that sentence, Are you feeling that you
couldn't go to your dad?
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I just I thought he wouldn't understand.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Yeah, and that's why you desperately want Hendrix to come
to you.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
But then at the same time, when things got better
and we finally had a conversation, he said he was
grateful that at the time, I told Joey and Rory
your best mate, that I was lucky to have people
like that in my life to still go to if
(44:48):
I couldn't go to him. So, but now I understand
as a parent how hard it would be. You know,
if your child goes through something like that, you'd want
to help them and protect them.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Are you closer now with your dads for all of this?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, much, I'm much more closer with both my parents.
I mean, I think I should mention also my mum.
She was really strong throughout the whole time, and you know,
she was the rock of the family of its usually are.
(45:27):
But yeah, me and my dad are close. I mean,
it's probably brought us a lot closer as a family.
And even when I was writing the book, I was
I was a bit scared about opening up around the
mental health chapter and being so open and honest, you know,
because there are some private things that I put out
(45:50):
there about my family throughout that time. So but they
were really they were really supportive and wanted me to
to help other people because they don't want other families
to go through what we went through.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
So your little brother, that was pretty tough for you,
right when you first saw him in hospital.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, I just didn't think he would understand, but I mean,
surely enough he understood, and you know, he just broke
down crying, and it.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Was pretty It was pretty hard to.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I guess to witness. And yeah, when I was in
that hospital, but I couldn't. I couldn't escape, you know,
I couldn't go anywhere. It's probably the reality because I
think because if I could escape, I probably would have.
But you know, there's a lesson in there somewhere that
it's our responsibility to look our after our mental health
(46:50):
because it not only affects us but like other people
around us.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
So better to confront things away from How old was
your little brother.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
It would have been eleven.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Kids always think it's their fault, right that they did
something that made the adults feel a certain way. Yeah,
that's tough. The physical injuries. I mean, incredibly lucky, as
you said, not to have worse ones, but they were
(47:28):
still really bad. How bad were they?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
I just remember trying to every night going to sleep,
just moving from one's just changing positions. If I'm sleeping
on my right shoulder moving to my left, you know,
my hips when united, so I'd have to move one
leg to a just.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Positions in bed to physically move it with your hand.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
With my hand.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
So that's how painful it was. I couldn't sit down
for too long. I just couldn't do simple things. I
couldn't shell myself for a long time, even coughing. My
groin is pretty pretty badly damaged. So it was I
just had to learn to deal with a lot of pain.
(48:23):
Even the exercises I was doing, just had to push
through so much pain. But yeah, and that was part
of the process of trusting, trusting in my own body,
of trusting myself that it's fine to go through this
pain if I want to improve. So yeah, it wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
But someone as competitive and strong as you, how humbling
was it to literally not be able to stand walk
all of those things?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
I think just just being in a wheelchair for I
wasn't allowed to go home for three months, and I
speaking to Rama, I thought I'd be in hospital for
at least two three weeks and then no one was
being honest with me, and and then I just rang
him and spoke to him, and he said, look, man,
(49:14):
you're going to be in here for at least.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
You know, for a while.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
So the news eve came. All my family and friends.
They had a barbecue for me back at my place
and I remember Emily wheeling me around to get to
the to the house.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
So that that was. That was quite humbling.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
And you know, I made some friends with some of
the elderly that were in the hospital. You know, they
were really lovely. Yeah, and I think just when I
started walking, when I got off crutches I had, I
had a limp for a long time and I lost
so much weight. So I just had to I just
(50:00):
had to put myself out there.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Friends wanted to catch up with me for a coffee
or go out to lunch. I'd walk down or they'd
come and picked me up. And people would noticed straight away.
And that was one of the hardest things because in
their mind, that's you know, that's that's the guy I
tried to kill himself. And yeah, so that was that
was pretty hard. And my brother, eldest brother, he used
(50:27):
to work at the arby a float and he said
come down while he was working, and I just completely forgot,
you know, I drive pick my car and I walked
down and as soon as I walked in, and I'm like,
oh God, like there's so many people here, and I
was wearing a shirt and it was just drenched and sweat.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Just my social anxiety got got the better of me.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
But you know, friends around me they knew, and family
around me they knew that they also had to help me.
And because I told him I'm so nervous, and he said,
look it's fine.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
It's.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
And five ten minutes later, yeah I was fine.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Everyone else was just.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Going on about their day. But yeah, that was hard.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
People really only want to talk about themselves, Like.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
No one's even looking at me.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
So but yeah, I had I had to go. I
had to go through that just so I can live
my life again. And yeah, because you can just sit
at home and not enjoy life. And but you know,
you have to go through. You have to go through.
It can't hide.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
I mean, we all care about what other people think
about us, right, as much as we say we don't,
we all do. And that's part of society and everything.
But You've had to deal without it many many times
across your life. Have you gotten good at it? Do
you think?
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I just I just keep it really simple these days.
I don't take on too much. I know, if I'm
really tired, I just I just just rest up. And
I used to be a bit of a yes man
as well, you know, try to please people. I can't
keep everyone happy. If I'm not happy, then you know.
It's Becoming a dad is really simplified life for me.
(52:18):
Every spare time that I have I'm with Hendrix to
you know, go pick him up and he loves a baby.
Yeah that that keeps me on a straight narrow everything
just about him now.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
And yeah, so you come back obviously wasn't straightforward. You
had injuries, you had so many steps along the way.
You know, you're first walking, first running, all of that
sort of stuff. But I just want to skip to
you run out there for your first AFL game. It
was in twenty twenty, so it was in amongst COVID
(52:55):
and everyone needed a good story and you were it.
And I get goose bumps just remembering it. But what
were your reflections on that day and that game? Given
everything you've been through.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
It was a relief because I mean I could have
played a lot earlier. And then I tear my peck,
So I was like, geez, you know, when when is
it going to get When is it going to happen
at all? And I remember the day res Shaw told
told me I had to had a meeting. I had
a personal meeting that I had to do in the morning,
(53:33):
so I missed. I missed the training meeting. We went
to the ground after and then you know, before before
we started training, he announced it to the boys, and
that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
You got such a big smile on your face right now.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Because I mean it was I think training might have
been on Wednesday or Thursday, so.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I was like Jesus still at least two to.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Three days before the game, uh, which was which was
good because then I was got back to everyone that
wished me well. And then on game day, because I've
been rehabbing for so long that I was just ready
to go and play. And I think I didn't have
any doubt in back in my mind because I knew
(54:18):
it was it was a long and hard rehabit, so yeah,
I was confident in my body. And then I think
for me, that's why it was. It was such a
big goal to come back and play footy because that's
what I saw myself doing before my mental health battles,
and yeah, that's me at my best and playing half
(54:40):
of foot is is what I love doing.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
So yeah, taught me through the goal.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
I was searching for a goal all day.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
You could envision the highlights on the tab and everything
could you were this moment asked happened?
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Is going to come? And it came the last quarter.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
But before that, I tried to kick goal from outside fifty.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
I got called to come to the bench and got sprayed.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Was like, what was that, Fray.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
It's like, you know, there's not too many people on
this team that have a license from outside fifty and
you're certainly not one of them.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
I don't care what your story is. Don't bomb from
outside fifty.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
I went back out there and sure nat Leek finally
kicked the ball and marked the ball, and Sean Higgins
came around past me and he said, you know you've
done this a thousand times before, you know, just go
through routine and kick the goal. And it's a bit
arrogant than me, but I didn't even watch the goal
go through I was just so confident. Yeah, and all
(55:50):
the boys around from everywhere. That was a pretty special moment.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
It was one of the best moments footy has ever
seen sport in this kind. True, it doesn't matter what
words or sentiment you put to it. That's it was
that big a deal. Did you You knew in that
moment how significant it was, right, not just for you,
but for yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Because I think it's just the amount of people that
have helped me along my journey and even through my
mental health stuff. You know, like they're a great moment
in life. And you know, with all the racism stuff,
all the hardship, people were generally happy for me.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
So yeah, that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
Have you ever thought back and thought about the alternative
if you didn't survive that night?
Speaker 1 (56:39):
Ah, Yeah, I think you know, it'd be pretty It
would have been pretty hard for my family. I mean,
for obvious reasons. But I think I've met I've met
a lot of people in my lifetime, and a lot
of people have had positive impact on my life and
vice versa. And yeah, look, you know there's only one
(57:00):
of us. You know, there's only one nearly and there's
only one magic.
Speaker 3 (57:06):
So particularly our names.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
You know, you currently place individuals like that, and I
think that's also one of the biggest driving factors for
me that I also need to keep working on my
mental health. You know, it's just not something that just
goes away. You have to continue work at it. If
I don't, I could potentially find myself in that position
(57:31):
again because I can't say, you know, challenge is going
to stop. You know, there'll be big challenges going forward,
and how I deal with them is ultimately how strong
my mental health is.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
So I'm so glad Hendrix has you because the alternative
just it just doesn't sit right that you would have
missed his life.
Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah, nothing, that opportunity to to be a dad to him.
I look now and I just can't imagine my life
without him really.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
You know.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
Well it's hard work sometimes, but.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
You know it's does your dad hug him?
Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah? He loves my dad.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, it's funny. I bring him away over It's like
Dad's big child and he's playing with him, and I'm
just I've just never seen him, seen him like that before.
Even with my little nieces and nephews, they get so
much enjoyment.
Speaker 3 (58:37):
Yeah, you have a little glint in your eye when
you spoke about your dad, Hendrick, and I don't know
whether it's it's the love or the fact that it's
seeing the playful side of your dad that brings that
out of you.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
I did take a photo so I send it to you,
and he's just in the living room playing with him
and I'm just I was like, I've never seen that before.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
So, yeah, that's all.
Speaker 3 (59:01):
Before I let you go in. I really appreciate all
the time that you've given. I know it's even though
you've spoken about this a few times, it can't ever
be easy to talk about it. But I wanted to
ask you about the Demons because you've you've moved there
now and they won the flag and you obviously didn't
didn't play in the Grand Final. But one of my favorite,
and I think lots of people's favorite things about that
(59:24):
premiership is how hard you celebrated your teammates. You like,
and it seemed from the outside looking in, it was
genuine joy. They didn't seem to be jealousy of what
they were going through. You seem to just really want
to celebrate them. Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (59:45):
Yeah, I think you know. I've put some photos up
on my social media, and you know, playing for so long,
played in one final, so just seeing how hard they
worked all year, and I think we used to beat Melbourne,
you know when I was at North Melbourne, and just
seeing the team have success and how hard they worked
(01:00:06):
and believed in each other. It would have been nice
to have played, but yeah, I was just generally just
so excited and happy for them and the fans back home.
And I've got a lot of family friends who are
Melbourne supporters, so they were they were really excited. Hendrix's
grandfather is a Melbourne supporter, so yeah, it was so cool.
(01:00:27):
I've never had a team that I supported along the
years or over the years when I flagg in my lifeter.
Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
So you found yourself in the middle of the celebration.
The cup did a tour of everyone's home. Did it
go to your home?
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Yeah? I went to my mom and dads.
Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
It was?
Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
It was?
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
It was pretty nice just to share the joy. We
took it to Emily's mom and dads. I really enjoyed it,
took photos with it. You know, once you hold the
cup and realize it's actually quite heavy for you, but
it's just it's just so physical. You can say, oh,
(01:01:09):
you know, Richmond won the flag the year before and
stuff like that, until you're holding the cup. It's just
it's so real. Yeah, to bring it brings generine excitement
and enjoy to people.
Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
So your parents got hold of the physical cup.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Yeah, they got to hold the physical cup.
Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
What did they think of it? I mean that's kind
of one of those moments as well where you look
back and you they must have just been sitting there going,
what we didn't even know about this, you know, twenty
years ago?
Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
What the hell? I mean, I couldn't believe it that
everyone could take the cup home. So that was the
coolest thing about it. They were just so happy. I
mean if I played in it, I couldn't imagine the
joy in their hearts. But they were just so happy after.
I guess all these years are playing footy although I
didn't play in it, but me being part of a
(01:01:56):
team that that's that wins a flag.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
So you got another year?
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, enough to work and keep being optimistic. I think
that's my driving factor.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
I want to finish by asking you. I know you
get asked this all the time, but when you really
genuinely think about it and everything you've been through, being
the first Sudanese born footballer to play in the AFL,
and now the story that you have that goes alongside it.
Do you take to heart what that means and what
(01:02:34):
you've done for so many people.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I never used to accept.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
I guess the credit to some of my friends of
whoever that when they say, you know, you're the first
one to start it, I just I just never felt satisfied.
Just I think because I'm still playing. Until Mac Andrew
went pick five, I was so happy and so emotional,
and I think being drafted as a rookie I've only
(01:03:01):
played fifty four games, so for multi culture footballers, when
recognized for a long time and drafted for other reasons
to build the game, which is fine, but I think
when you finally have someone back taking a big five, yeah,
I think I can be proud of that.
Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
So you did that? Yeah, like you actually you did that.
Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
When I win the flag, I'll thank you, not just
for today, but you've always been so polite and generous
with your time, and you were so bad at taking compliments.
Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
You're constantly looking away from it as I'm saying nice
things to you. But I'm so glad you're still here,
and I know I messaged you that at the time,
like a bazillion other people, but there's so much love
for you and respect for you, and you have enriched
the game tenfold, so I really appreciate it and appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Thank you. It's more a pleasure time.
Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Thanks for listening to this episode of ordinarily speaking. If
you want to discover more about mad Jack's life, and
I highly recommend it, check out his book mad Jack
by mad Jack daw Please remember you can reach Lifeline
on one three double one one four, or head to
Beyond Blue dot org dot AU. A new episode will
drop on Wednesday. Don't forget to hit subscribe and tell
(01:04:24):
your mates U
Orderary speaking, I'm known as the first Sudanese footballer, but
ultimately I'm a family man.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Fathering a son.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Takes time. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of
Ordinarily Speaking. I'm narrowly Meadows. Majack daw has got a
second chance at life, and he's using it to try
and help others. The AFL player wants his little boy, Hendrix,
(00:41):
to grow up in a world open to conversations around
mental health. Born in Sedan, Madjack spent three years as
a refugee in Egypt before relocating to Australia, where he
became the first Sudanese born player in the AFL. In
twenty fifteen, Madjack was found not guilty of three counts
of rape, dating back to an allegation from two thousand
(01:02):
and seven when he was sixteen years old. He now
believes that court case led to a severe decline in
his mental health. In December twenty eighteen, Majack attempted to
take his own life in a moment of clarity. He
immediately regretted the decision. As you listen to this episode,
please know Lifeline can be reached on one three, double
(01:23):
one one four. Beyond Blue dot org dot au is
another place you can seek help. This is a story
of a complex life told in Majack's own words. At
the heart of it all, the importance of family shines through. Well.
(01:49):
Thanks so much for agreeing to do this match. I
really appreciate it. I wanted to start by asking you
about your little boy, Hendrix. Biggest smile comes across your
face at the moment I bring him up. What does
he mean to you?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I mean, I just I don't know, like coming from
you know, one of nine kids, always always grown up
with having little little children in my family, and then
you know, when Hendrix came along, there was all these
sorts of I guess, uh fears, probably.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's the right word.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But as he's grown up, I've just I don't think
i've I've ever loved anyone as much as as I
love him. And yeah, he's just growing and just being
able to teach him things as he gets older. Every
time I see him, he runs over, it gives me
a cuddle and you know, kiss his dad and like
(02:46):
that's I never I never gave my dad a hug
when I was growing up. So yeah, he means it
well to me. Hendrix and.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Why did you never hug your daughter? Just wasn't the
way he did things.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Or it's really not in the in my culture to
show it, to show affection or anything like that. Even
growing up, I just just never saw examples of it.
But I mean, now I'll give my dad a hug
and you know, he might feel it a bit awkward,
but but yeah, just he's just so affectionate Hendrix, and
(03:20):
he reminds he reminds me of myself a lot, and
he's got so much love.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And yeah, is the best thing about being dad the
fact that you get to now make your dad jokes without.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, I think it's I can probably get away with
it now, and yeah, even though they're bad, but he's not,
he's not ready.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
To hear them.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Once you go to a dad joke around the footy club,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Know put me on the spot there, but I think
since since coming to Melbourne, a bit a bit of
Alarican when I was at North and you enjoy going
into the club and making the boys laugh. But as
I've got one of the older boys at Melbourne, I've
got an axles.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Got to be granddad instead of dad jokes. You sort
of mentioned it a little bit off the top. But
when you look at Hendrix and you reflect on when
you were a little boy and the relationship that you
had with your parents, how do you feel about yourself
looking back at that little boy.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You know, I was pretty lucky in terms of, you know,
what mom and dad were able to do for me
and my siblings. And you know, looking back, I remember
you'd go out and have days out. Dad would take
me to a museum or you know, go to work
with him on school holidays. So I did spend a
lot of time with my dad. But now when I've
(04:53):
got Hendrix, you know, it's sort of similar kind of thing.
He just wants to do things. He wants to go
out once, go footy, loves basketball. You know, I would
sit there even days when we don't go outside. He
is into Spider Man, loves Spider Man. So just been
able to do things with him. I'm just really proud
(05:14):
that someone like Hendricks is. Yeah, he's proud to call
me his dad, and he relies on me to do
everything for him. So I do I do really take
take pride in that, and it just reminds me of
what my parents were able to do to do for
me when I was younger, and yeah, it's my turn
now to sort of do that with my son.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
So what kind of advice would your parents give you
when you're a kid.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I was pretty naughty, so.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I didn't quite you know.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I hurt myself a lot when I was younger, so
my poor mum, she was in tears a lot, and
I just just had so much energy. So I kind
of a little bit like Hendrix now. And yeah, yeah,
but I guess it's probably taught me to just have
a go at things within reason, no fear, and barely
(06:05):
not back down. It's probably not the right word, but yeah,
I love it. And people doubt me and then I
prove them wrong. So that's what's kind of taught me
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
You've done that a few times. When you close your
eyes and you think back to sit, doan what springs
to mind for you? What sort of smells and senses
and memories.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I guess in the summer, it's really dry, very hot.
You know where we lived, just outskirts of the city.
You know that it would be so dry that the
ground will crack. You know, those sorts of things you
see in the at back and country. Victoria just very
dry and the wet season it rained heavily to the
point where there was an area in front of the
(06:51):
house and turned it almost it would turn into a
pond and it'd get all these birds and all these vegetation.
I guess it's more family when I look back. Yeah,
And that's when that's one of the biggest things I
sort of missed out on because you know, I moved
from Sedan to Egypt and now living here in Australia,
(07:12):
just not growing up with my grandparents, my cousins, although
I've got a big family, so it doesn't really seem
seem seem that much of a bit of a difference.
But those things that I could never missed out on.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
So I love when you talk about it, you sort
of look ahead of you as though you can imagine
that the pond of water in front, like you're back
there when you're looking back. How unsafe was it for
your family in Sadan growing up?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I was, I was relatively safe, but I think as
I got older started understanding, I guess the world around me,
and I was unfolding at the time, the Civil war
in Sedan between North and South, and you know, my
dad was heavily in the church. You know, he was
helping rescuing some of the kids who were becoming child soldiers,
(08:06):
and I saw a bit of that, and I think
in the book I do mention when he was arrested
by the government in the middle of the night, and
that's the reason why we left. In the end, it
just wasn't safe for our family. But I think he
spent around six months in prison, and I was shielded
(08:27):
a lot from all was happening. But I think around
seven or eight it's just started and I guess understanding
more and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How unsafe it was.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
But we were really lucky to be able to escape
down at that time, because as soon as we left,
it just the country wasn't safe and a lot of
people lost their lives and detained a lot of people
put in prison for very very minor reasons.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So what do you remember from that that night that
your like, when did you realize that your dad had
been taken?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I was really close. I mean I was obsessed with
my dad, and I was when I was young, and
you know, I was comeld. I was maybe seven or so,
and if I couldn't sleep some nights, i'd go and
sleep with my dad, and you know, it just happened
to me that night, and you know, there was a
big knock on the door and they came barging in
and soldiers with guns and took him in the back
(09:24):
of the back of the car and just remember running
after the car. And it's very clear that incident. And
I never asked him, you know, as I was growing
up about that about that incident or or never went
into too much detailed with him, but my older brothers
(09:44):
they filled me in with a fair bit. So and
then when I was writing the book, I was I
was finally able to, you know, ask him properly without
feeling like I am not disrespecting him, but yeah, because
it's not an easy conversation to have with you have
with your parent, and you know, the things he told me.
(10:05):
He was tortured in prison, had to walk around with
the toothbrush and just he just he just didn't know
whether he was going to come home that day, so
they told him he could be detained anytime. So I
just had to I just had to be really careful.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
So so you were literally laying next to him and
they essentially ripped him from your arms. Is that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, God, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, I mean, it's a it's one of those things,
and I mean, growing up over the years, I found
it hard to believe. But also it's also one of
those parts of my life that have I found really
hard to share with other people because of how really
(10:58):
how real it is. You know, people would think it's
something out of a movie. But I think that's why
I really, being a father to Hendrix, I just want
to you know, I just want to protect him as
much as I can and never have to never have
to go through anything like that with him or any kids.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I haven't going forward, so.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
That, Yeah, how did how did it feel when you
when you finally spoke to your dad about that? Because
I imagine you're you carry something like that internally, you
never talk about it and so it just sits there
for years. How did it feel to have that conversation
with him?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It was a bit of a relief, just just to
finally hear him speak about it. He was an uncomfortable
or anything, And I guess, you know, that's why I
look up to my parents. You know, he's throughout throughout
all my life, you know, everything that they've done for us,
and and to think, you know, there's some of the
(12:06):
challenges he's been through and to do with the brave
face raise nine kids travel across the world. Yeah, that's
again I gain a lot of my strength.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
From that.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Did you hug after that conversation?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
We shook hands?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Oh goodness, that's quite funny. Actually you end up in Egypt.
How many years were in Egypt?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
For three years?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Three years? And so you were still a little tacker
then around nine years of age, right, Yeah, How tough
was that? You write? You write in the book, which
the book is amazing by the way your voice really
comes through in it, which I think is the most
beautiful thing about it. Is it really you are telling
your story and it's such a strong voice. The time
(13:07):
in Egypt. How tough was that because you leave a
place where you know you're inherently unsafe and you get
to another place where you're made to feel ostracized and
suffer quite significant racism as well. How challenging was that
as a little kid?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, Like, it was really tough because I mean those
I think it was a period of six months where
it was just my mom and now and my siblings,
and I think just the living conditions, sharing sharing a
house with three other families, just never felt comfortable at all,
not at home, not in the street. The racism that
(13:43):
we faced. There was just so much hate towards people
like me at the time in Egypt, and there was
always a constant reminder to the point where I tell
my mom, yes, I know, because I guess for her
to let us at the house or go to the shops.
She was really scared. But although in saying that, I
think there were some great people we met along the
(14:04):
way in Egypt. But yeah, just the whole time, I
just never never felt comfortable until my dad, until he
came and he finally got a house. There was just
a lot of unrest and just so much stress between
the families. Yeah, until my dad came and we were
finally able to just have a house not have to
(14:26):
worry about, you know, sharing the living room with other people.
And you know that it's funny looking back because you
just slept wherever you could, you know, mattresses in the
living room.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So it's quite humbling.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So you use the word hate before that it's such
a strong word and to feel like there was hatred
coming towards you when you're just nine years of age. God,
how tough was that?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it was just it was just so hard to believe.
I mean, and in this and nine year old, I'm
not a threat to anyone. Yeah, like just you know,
maybe my skin color or the way I look, I
don't know, because I spoke Arabic. I mean I could
do everything and anything that any nine year old could
do an Egyptian kid, and.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Just that hate.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I mean, it's really tough. It's really hard to explain
because it's almost to the point where they don't want
you to exist. So but we had some fun in
Egypt as well. I mean used to play soccer in
the street and when Ramadan come around, you see the
goodness and some people's heart.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It was predominantly Muslim country.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But yeah, so you get to Australia and unfortunately here
there were still situations where we you copped that crap.
For anyone who is listening who just doesn't get it,
can you put into words how you feel or when
when somebody says stuff or does stuff that makes you
(16:04):
feel othered.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, Like, I mean there are examples, I mean from school,
even playing footy. It just sort of for some reason,
I mean like now I'm older, I mean I can
deal with it a bit better. You just you just
feel like you're not good enough. And it's one of
those things people will singly out about you, especially in
(16:26):
footy when it when it did happen when I was playing,
when I was playing footy, and you know, when I
came here, did and speak a word of English, you know,
finished school and all that stuff, playing AFL footy and
still there's just there's just that reminder maybe you're not
one of us, or you're not good enough, and you know,
(16:46):
that feeling is is quite painful to deal with.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
What's really stuck out to me when I was reading
your book was whether it was you know, in wart On,
Sudan or Egypt or Australia, or you know, first at
school or playing footy for the first time, all anyone
really wants in life is to feel accepted, to feel safe,
(17:11):
and to belong and that's anyone. Yeah, and all these
times it was like you were getting the complete opposite
of that. Does it take a toll on someone to
keep on copying that?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah? It does.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I mean it constantly have to remind yourself to be
grateful for things, for me. I mean the things I've
been able to do and achieve in life, and you know,
I'm proud of some of them. I'm proud of I'm
proud of them.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
But now.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I'm really looking forward to seeing Hendrix growing up and
you know, just and less opportunities and go to school uninterrupted.
I want to play footy, go to UNI, do all
these do all these things that I am that I
missed out on.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And I think, you know, coming.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Back to your point where when there's when there's constant hardship,
all these setbacks, the reality is, I mean it's for
me deep down now, I know if I give up,
then I miss out on all those opportunities to be
able to try and achieve those things. You know, I
might not get there, but you know, at least I
I'll get closer.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, at least you gave it a crack. What were
your favorite things about coming here for the first time
in Australia. What were the things that you talk about.
You know that there's positives in amongst the hardships, you
smile on your face. What were some of the things
that you know, whether it's little little things as it,
you know, youngster, that you weren't. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think it's just the freedom really put aside all
the hardships that.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
We've been through.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But I think living in the Egypt, it was just
it was just apartment There was never spaces, having a
big backyard, eating healthy food, things like that, and I
don't know, even you know, Mum and Dad driving us
around in the car. There was just there's just so
many things. Good healthcare, you know, even the ability to
(19:12):
be able to help out other family members who are
back in Sadan financially and you know, helping other families
come to Australia or organize their visas.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
My dad did that a lot.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So just being able to help other people because you know,
someone else gave us the chance, and I think it's
one of those great things that we've been.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Able to do.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
So I also think that one of the amazing things
out of everything that you've said is you speak three languages.
That's impressive. And they're not just like, oh, you know,
French and Italian all those sort of things, Arabic, DNA
and English all completely.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Fluently, all completely affluently.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Like that alone is I mean.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
English was pretty to learn.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Like the writing aspect of English, because there's just so
many ways to describe describe things.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We're in Arabic and Dinker.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
They're complex in terms of the writing and stuff, but
it's not you know, it's very direct. So yeah, that
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah. What do you speak with your family Dinker?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, some of my some of my siblings who who
were born in Egypt or when too young, they speak
a little bit of Dinker and English.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And your littlest brother, yeah, he.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Was born here.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
He is half and halfs There's some things you can
say in Dinker and there'll beig conversations. Where's half Dinker
half English? You particularly in these cops in the household. Yeah,
it's just one of those things. I mean, it's that's
that's how he's grown up here.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
So would you want Hendrix to know how to speak Dinker?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, I would take him, take him to my mum
and dads when I when I get the chance. But
Hendrix is so auzzy, I mean, he's just he has
vegemindin vegemardin toast and wheat bogs for breakfast.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
He's I love the way you say he's so busy,
like I'm so disappointed.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
He's just I mean it's, you know, try our best.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
But I think I've got I've got I've got I've
got little nieces and nephews. He's got so much family
that he can grow up with, and I'm sure he'll
be able to pick up some words along the way.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, I love it. Reflecting back now, when do you
think your mental health took a turn?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I think it was after the court case twenty fourteen
or something like that. Back then, in hindsight, I should
have taken, you know, a bit of time away from
footy and go look after myself. It was just it
was just mentally and physically exhausting. An at the time,
(22:06):
all my teammates everyone were in Utah doing the preseason
camp while I was still back here. One of my
I was living with one of my teammates at the time.
He was away as also, so I was going home
each day and just on my own and dealing with
what's unfolded that day. It was probably lack of knowledge
and education around mental health. Because my management they advised me,
(22:30):
they said, look, if you need to take some time off,
take some time off. But I was also excited to
see the boys because I hadn't seen them for over
three weeks, and so I went got back straight into
training and I did the best I can and then
I guess over the over that little period till twenty eighteen,
some surgeries, you know, playing with the broken foot for
(22:52):
the whole season, getting an injection before every game and
then going home after games, you know AFL matches finished
pretty late, and having to deal with the pain, not
being able to go to sleep and all that stuff.
I just thought I'd be able to shrug it off
or cope, yeah, or go through it like any other
(23:14):
challenges that I've that I've that I've faced, But I
think this time around it was It's probably.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, it was probably too much.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So what do you think about the court case that
took its toll was because there's so many aspects of that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I think.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
The biggest thing is, you know, being accused of something
like that and not being given the chance to to
go through it properly. You know, the media were quite
we're quite nasty. I mean, I didn't mind it. It's
not that I didn't mind, but they can come after
me and stuff and stuff like that. But I think,
(23:54):
you know, there were there were mum and mum and
Dad's house, these cameras there trying to get a word
out of my siblings, and I really struggle with that aspect.
I mean, being able to play footy and having a profile,
but then also when it starts impacting other family members,
(24:15):
that was pretty hard to deal with.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, and then it just goes on your shoulders.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Then I feel like it's my responsibility, you know. I
guess if I didn't have the profile, I didn't play footy,
then they wouldn't put them in that position.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But although although.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know, I was innocent and found not guilty of
any of the charges, just the damage it's done to
my image. And I think that's one of those things.
I mean speaking to friends and family and then I'll
bring it up with them and they say, look, you know,
there's nothing, you don't need to worry about anything. But
(24:56):
I think people can be nasty, and you know, walking
down the streets or if I'm out somewhere, someone might
say a comment and do.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You still get that dude here and there?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, here and there.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
But I think even they will forever be on the internet.
There's just some things that can't turn.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Back, can't be un said.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, So, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Think just the ability for people to write things about
you and there's no responsibility on their behalf.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
So yeah, from a mental health perspective, what were some
of the signs that you were seeing about yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I just stopped going home, seeking my family, withdrawing from friends,
and heavily drinking. This is later on twenty eighteen, and
I was just stop doing things that I really enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I used to go fishing a lot, Yeah, like as
make up excuses not to go see people. And I
was just spending a lot of time by myself. So
there were some of the signs.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
And yeah, when you say you're drinking too much? How much?
How often?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You know, even like twenty eighteen, that off season, I
was probably drinking a fair bit during the week. You know,
I knew well I shouldn't be, but you know, Emily
pulled me up a fair bit, and you know, would
have a friend's engagement or someone's birthday and I just
do it without even noticing, And it wasn't for enjoyment
(26:27):
or anything like that. So because you when someone tells
you something that's true and you know you deny it
and you know they're right. But yeah, so I felt
like I was doing that a fair bit. And yeah,
poor Emily, she had to put up with a fair bit.
And then at the same time, when I was doing
(26:47):
some work with you know, with the psychs and psychiatrist,
I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
I wasn't being truthful and as honest as as I
as I could have been.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Why not, do you think?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Ah, For some reason, I just thought, you know, I'd
just get through it in a couple of months and
I should be fine. I learned a lot working with them.
But then, you know, until until things got really serious.
Then I realized, well, I have to do this properly.
(27:20):
There's there's there's no other way around it but to
just be honest and truthful.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
So, yeah, how destructive with your behavior do you think
at the time, both to yourself and your relationships and
the people around you.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I was, Yeah, I was. I was.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I was a bit reckless, you know, because I wasn't
spending a lot of time with my family, and you know,
I was going out a lot with.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Some of the boys, and.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I guess every opportunity where I could, I was going
to a lot of events, and not that I needed
to you, but I guess it was just an excuse
to go and have a drink with.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, it was. It was reckless.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Why do you think you avoided your family and shut
yourself away from them when you reflect back at it now, what? Yeah,
what do you think it was?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
They know me pretty well, you know, like I mean,
I'm not I'm not a vocal person in social settings.
I'm usually pretty quiet, even if it's coming back this
pre season and seeing my family over the last a
little bit when we had off and mom and dad
are like, oh, you lost weight, I'm like, yeah, I've been.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I've been training.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
And even my sister the other day when I went
home and she's likes everything all right, I'm like, yeah,
I just just the whole COVID stuff, you know, isolating
for so long and so my family know when things
aren't going well, and that's why I avoided. I avoided
going home because I just didn't want to answer the
questions because eventually I'd have to tell them the truth.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
So do you wish it did now?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah? Definitely wish because I could have you know, I
could not have been around. And that's one of those
things I'm grateful for. I'm grateful for my life, but
also at the same time knowing if I asked my
family and my friends for help before things got really bad,
(29:17):
I knew they would to help me. And like I like,
I saw countless examples they really did pick me up,
and you know, they got me through some of the
worst times in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Madjack daw when you
were isolating yourself, what were some of the conversations you
were having with yourself in your own mind? What were
you telling yourself?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Look, I mean it was just it was just creeping up.
I mean in terms of just I didn't want to
accept that, you know, until I had the conversation with
the club doctor. You know, just being able to utter
those words that you know, I think I've got the
depression or I think I've got poor mental health. It's
really hard to accept that's where you are in your
(30:07):
life because like the stigma around it, which is why
I wrote this book. I want that to change. It
doesn't mean, you know, you're any less of a human
or you're weak. And I think the best description I've
heard from my cycle is, you know, it's like professional development.
If you need some work around around your career, you
go and do a course, or if you need to
(30:29):
learn something, you go and learn it. That's exactly the
same with mental health, because if your mind is poor,
you've got poor mental health, then you can do something
about it. And then on, once you've done the work,
or once you feel confident enjoying life again, then you're thriving.
And I think that's one of those things I want
(30:49):
people with mental health issues to understand. When you're thriving,
I mean, your life is so much better. I mean
you go see your family, you catch up with your friends,
you drink responsibly.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, tell me about the first night that you tried
to take your own life of whatever you're comfortable sharing.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Look, that night was we just had a we just
had a friend's thirty, if you know, Like someone said
a comment about Emily and I said it directly to me,
and I just took that to I just took that
too literally, like took.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
It to heart.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And when I look back, you know, like I barely
know this guy, So I could have just brushed it
off and not waded in too much into it. But
then around that time, that's when I was heavily drinking,
So I just continued drinking more and I told Emily
that I was going home.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I left.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
I went home, and I started drinking more and my
thoughts got the better of me, and I took some
sleeping tablets and then finally realizing, look, I need I
need to tell someone what's going on. So I rang Joey,
(32:13):
I rang Pete, and then I rang another friend, Rory,
and they came around early that morning, and you know,
I just basically told them everything and they were very understanding.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
But yeah, I was just just at my lowest. Really.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I didn't go to training that day. I didn't go
to training the following day. I stayed home for a
couple of days, and Pete told the club that, you know,
I seek and stuff. So the next month was really tough.
I was in rehab, just had surgery on my foot.
I really struggled to the people in the eye at
the time because just just in case they might ask
(32:56):
us everything all right, and and then you know, either
lighted them more. So I've ordered eye contact a lot,
and I just found it hard to go into training
and do what I needed to dote. Pete encouraged me
to tell the coach and let him know what's going
on and speak to some of my teammates. But I
was just just scared how they'd perceive it and stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
So what were you mostly scared of?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Ah, just the questions? What am I struggling with? I
guess I was probably in my own mind really, because
you know, hindsight's a great thing because they whatever I
was scared of, it would have been there to help
me straight away.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
So what happens from there?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
You know, the drinking got worse. Like I was saying earlier,
I was catching up with the psych and just wasn't
being truthful and honest with them. And I remember Emily
and I we had a pretty argument.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
We came back from Balley.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
We had the miscarriage, and I was pretty tough just
just seeing her in that state where you know, we're
in a foreign country. Yeah, it was just just it
was supposed to be a celebration her mom sixtieth and
tend o to be this massive disaster, and we were
really vulnerable, both of us, and we're looking after each other.
(34:26):
And then we came back and I was still going
through my struggles and.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
We had an argument one night.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
She left and I continued drinking, and my thoughts got
the better of me, and yeah, that's when I decided
to jump in the car and I headed to the
balted bridge. So look, that person is me back then.
You know, it's pretty scary. I was what I tried
(34:56):
to do to myself. And I'm not that person anymore.
You know, it's I am, I'm thriving, I'm enjoying life.
But I learned a pretty tough lesson just because you
know the pain I put my family through, people around me,
(35:17):
but even myself, you know, the injuries that are sustained.
You know, it was really humbling getting around in a wheelchair,
spending a lot of time with elderly people. It was
like I didn't I don't belong here. But I think
I needed to do the work, you know, work on
myself because the psychiatrist said, you know, I'm not going
(35:41):
to put your medication if you, you know, do your
rehab to the best of your ability. And I think
three weeks, three weeks in hospital, I got off the medication,
the painkillers and stuff, and that was that was really challenging,
not being able to sleep at night, and I.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Just had to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
And yeah, I celebrated the milestones, walking, running and all
this stuff. So, but you know, not everyone's as lucky
as I am in that sense. And you know, despite
being in the hospital for so long, and yeah, I
mean I know a lot of families family members through
(36:27):
mental health and stuff and those kind of things. You
know that they take my position and have their have
their family members here.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
So do you remember that night or is it a blur?
Like do you remember the moment?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I remember clearly. I think just the impact of the
water and I think because yeah, I think I blacked
out and then.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I just.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I just remember wanting to wanting to live, and just
to regret immediately after jumping. And but yeah, I think
it's it's just one of those things, you know, just
so lucky. I missed a pylon under the bridge by
(37:22):
a couple of meters.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
You know, in a in a in a tragic time
of my life, a lot of things went right.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
So you did you literally have a moment like when
you're falling and thought, I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, And I think it's it's not too you know,
I don't want not to encourage anyone to do anything
like that, because it's just realizing, you know, there's there's
no coming back, you know. So it's a that's one
(38:09):
thing that sticks in my mind quite clearly. You know,
if you're not around, you're not around, that's a that's reality.
And I think taking that type of risk, that's what
could happen.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
So just provided a sharp moment of clarity. Yeah, when
you say that the impact, when you say you remember that,
what do you remember from that moment just.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Hitting the water?
Speaker 1 (38:40):
I think maybe is because I couldn't sleep for a
while and I had had trouble going to sleep and
waking up and pull a sweats and I just just
kept kept on playing in my mind and it's just
the impact from my back and palvis breaking. So and
(39:01):
I think it's a, you know, one of those things
that I've learned to to to deal with and.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Not be okay with.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
But except that, that's they are the facts, and and
just work on myself.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, so you have nightmares about I used to Yeah,
how often would you have them?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I was regularly, Like I mean, it would be every
night because I try to do a lot of mindfulness
And even then I struggled to close my eyes because
that just that thought you'd just keep coming back to
my mind and I think instead of keeping that to myself,
I spoke to my psych and and he's, you know,
(39:48):
gave me some tools and helped me get through it
so well.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And you don't have to share what kind of tools
were you using it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
He just said to just try and just try and
work on your breathing, maybe do your mindfulness with your
eyes open, you know, doing puzzles.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Because I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, it's just because I had to fill in fill
in a lot of time, three times a day doing rehab,
and then when I'd come back to my room where
I was staying, there was a lot of downtime and
they had to really cut down the visiting hours because
I needed to rest. I think I was sleeping something
(40:36):
like three times a day, just learning how to be
okay to sit by yourself.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
For a period of time without going back to that thought.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, I was just that it's okay to be by yourself.
And because I mean, my family were terrified, you know,
they thought I was I would kill myself or try
to kill myself. And if I gave in to everyone worrying,
everyone worrying around me, at some point, I'm going to
(41:08):
start believing that.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
So I had to yeah, I had to really.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Trust myself and that that I'm okay to be alone
and everyone around me from then on will will be
comfortable leaving me alone or not speaking to me for
a couple of days because I was getting phone calls, text.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Message, fever checking in.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
It was kind of from a great place, but also
at the same time, I needed I needed to show
them that I can trust myself.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
So did you have to show yourself that you could
trust yourself as well? Yeah? Yeah, is that almost the
hardest person to convince.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeah, But like it was just the circumstances I was in.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I think because I think how old I think, twenty
seven at the time, relatively young and practicing gratitude things
that I'm grateful for in life, and I think I
didn't want to be in that position, and I wanted
to come back and play footy. So if I wanted
(42:16):
to do those things, I had to get better more
mentally than physically, because you know, as soon as my
mind's strong again, you know, I just improved so much
through my rehab.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Have the nightmare stopped or do you still get them occasionally?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
They've stopped? Yeah? Thank god?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, yeah, that's so good. So talking about stuff does
actually help, then it does.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, you've trust the right people.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
What do you remember from your first conversation with your parents?
Because they had no idea right that any any of
this was going through your mind.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
They had no idea, And I think I break my parents' heart,
and it's just one of those things that I minute
never be able to take back the pain that I've
put them through. Even Emily, they were really upset that
they were the first people that I came and asked
(43:21):
for help or told them what was going on. To
the point where my dad and I had a falling
out for a period of time when I was still
in hospital.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
That sounds like it was a really hard thing to
cope with on top of everything else.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I just thought he might sorry. At my lowest, I
thought my dad would I understand more and be there
for me. But also he was struggling with his own
the way I look at it, if Hendricks was going
through something like that, he'd come to me first for help.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
When you say that sentence, Are you feeling that you
couldn't go to your dad?
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I just I thought he wouldn't understand.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Yeah, and that's why you desperately want Hendrix to come
to you.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
But then at the same time, when things got better
and we finally had a conversation, he said he was
grateful that at the time, I told Joey and Rory
your best mate, that I was lucky to have people
like that in my life to still go to if
(44:48):
I couldn't go to him. So, but now I understand
as a parent how hard it would be. You know,
if your child goes through something like that, you'd want
to help them and protect them.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Are you closer now with your dads for all of this?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, much, I'm much more closer with both my parents.
I mean, I think I should mention also my mum.
She was really strong throughout the whole time, and you know,
she was the rock of the family of its usually are.
(45:27):
But yeah, me and my dad are close. I mean,
it's probably brought us a lot closer as a family.
And even when I was writing the book, I was
I was a bit scared about opening up around the
mental health chapter and being so open and honest, you know,
because there are some private things that I put out
(45:50):
there about my family throughout that time. So but they
were really they were really supportive and wanted me to
to help other people because they don't want other families
to go through what we went through.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
So your little brother, that was pretty tough for you,
right when you first saw him in hospital.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, I just didn't think he would understand, but I mean,
surely enough he understood, and you know, he just broke
down crying, and it.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Was pretty It was pretty hard to.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I guess to witness. And yeah, when I was in
that hospital, but I couldn't. I couldn't escape, you know,
I couldn't go anywhere. It's probably the reality because I
think because if I could escape, I probably would have.
But you know, there's a lesson in there somewhere that
it's our responsibility to look our after our mental health
(46:50):
because it not only affects us but like other people
around us.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
So better to confront things away from How old was
your little brother.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
It would have been eleven.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Kids always think it's their fault, right that they did
something that made the adults feel a certain way. Yeah,
that's tough. The physical injuries. I mean, incredibly lucky, as
you said, not to have worse ones, but they were
(47:28):
still really bad. How bad were they?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I couldn't.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
I just remember trying to every night going to sleep,
just moving from one's just changing positions. If I'm sleeping
on my right shoulder moving to my left, you know,
my hips when united, so I'd have to move one
leg to a just.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Positions in bed to physically move it with your hand.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
With my hand.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
So that's how painful it was. I couldn't sit down
for too long. I just couldn't do simple things. I
couldn't shell myself for a long time, even coughing. My
groin is pretty pretty badly damaged. So it was I
just had to learn to deal with a lot of pain.
(48:23):
Even the exercises I was doing, just had to push
through so much pain. But yeah, and that was part
of the process of trusting, trusting in my own body,
of trusting myself that it's fine to go through this
pain if I want to improve. So yeah, it wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
But someone as competitive and strong as you, how humbling
was it to literally not be able to stand walk
all of those things?
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
I think just just being in a wheelchair for I
wasn't allowed to go home for three months, and I
speaking to Rama, I thought I'd be in hospital for
at least two three weeks and then no one was
being honest with me, and and then I just rang
him and spoke to him, and he said, look, man,
(49:14):
you're going to be in here for at least.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
You know, for a while.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
So the news eve came. All my family and friends.
They had a barbecue for me back at my place
and I remember Emily wheeling me around to get to
the to the house.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
So that that was. That was quite humbling.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
And you know, I made some friends with some of
the elderly that were in the hospital. You know, they
were really lovely. Yeah, and I think just when I
started walking, when I got off crutches I had, I
had a limp for a long time and I lost
so much weight. So I just had to I just
(50:00):
had to put myself out there.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Friends wanted to catch up with me for a coffee
or go out to lunch. I'd walk down or they'd
come and picked me up. And people would noticed straight away.
And that was one of the hardest things because in
their mind, that's you know, that's that's the guy I
tried to kill himself. And yeah, so that was that
was pretty hard. And my brother, eldest brother, he used
(50:27):
to work at the arby a float and he said
come down while he was working, and I just completely forgot,
you know, I drive pick my car and I walked
down and as soon as I walked in, and I'm like,
oh God, like there's so many people here, and I
was wearing a shirt and it was just drenched and sweat.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Just my social anxiety got got the better of me.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
But you know, friends around me they knew, and family
around me they knew that they also had to help me.
And because I told him I'm so nervous, and he said,
look it's fine.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
It's.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
And five ten minutes later, yeah I was fine.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Everyone else was just.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Going on about their day. But yeah, that was hard.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
People really only want to talk about themselves, Like.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
No one's even looking at me.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
So but yeah, I had I had to go. I
had to go through that just so I can live
my life again. And yeah, because you can just sit
at home and not enjoy life. And but you know,
you have to go through. You have to go through.
It can't hide.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
I mean, we all care about what other people think
about us, right, as much as we say we don't,
we all do. And that's part of society and everything.
But You've had to deal without it many many times
across your life. Have you gotten good at it? Do
you think?
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I just I just keep it really simple these days.
I don't take on too much. I know, if I'm
really tired, I just I just just rest up. And
I used to be a bit of a yes man
as well, you know, try to please people. I can't
keep everyone happy. If I'm not happy, then you know.
It's Becoming a dad is really simplified life for me.
(52:18):
Every spare time that I have I'm with Hendrix to
you know, go pick him up and he loves a baby.
Yeah that that keeps me on a straight narrow everything
just about him now.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
And yeah, so you come back obviously wasn't straightforward. You
had injuries, you had so many steps along the way.
You know, you're first walking, first running, all of that
sort of stuff. But I just want to skip to
you run out there for your first AFL game. It
was in twenty twenty, so it was in amongst COVID
(52:55):
and everyone needed a good story and you were it.
And I get goose bumps just remembering it. But what
were your reflections on that day and that game? Given
everything you've been through.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
It was a relief because I mean I could have
played a lot earlier. And then I tear my peck,
So I was like, geez, you know, when when is
it going to get When is it going to happen
at all? And I remember the day res Shaw told
told me I had to had a meeting. I had
a personal meeting that I had to do in the morning,
(53:33):
so I missed. I missed the training meeting. We went
to the ground after and then you know, before before
we started training, he announced it to the boys, and
that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
You got such a big smile on your face right now.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Because I mean it was I think training might have
been on Wednesday or Thursday, so.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
I was like Jesus still at least two to.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Three days before the game, uh, which was which was
good because then I was got back to everyone that
wished me well. And then on game day, because I've
been rehabbing for so long that I was just ready
to go and play. And I think I didn't have
any doubt in back in my mind because I knew
(54:18):
it was it was a long and hard rehabit, so yeah,
I was confident in my body. And then I think
for me, that's why it was. It was such a
big goal to come back and play footy because that's
what I saw myself doing before my mental health battles,
and yeah, that's me at my best and playing half
(54:40):
of foot is is what I love doing.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
So yeah, taught me through the goal.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
I was searching for a goal all day.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
You could envision the highlights on the tab and everything
could you were this moment asked happened?
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Is going to come? And it came the last quarter.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
But before that, I tried to kick goal from outside fifty.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
I got called to come to the bench and got sprayed.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Was like, what was that, Fray.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
It's like, you know, there's not too many people on
this team that have a license from outside fifty and
you're certainly not one of them.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
I don't care what your story is. Don't bomb from
outside fifty.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
I went back out there and sure nat Leek finally
kicked the ball and marked the ball, and Sean Higgins
came around past me and he said, you know you've
done this a thousand times before, you know, just go
through routine and kick the goal. And it's a bit
arrogant than me, but I didn't even watch the goal
go through I was just so confident. Yeah, and all
(55:50):
the boys around from everywhere. That was a pretty special moment.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
It was one of the best moments footy has ever
seen sport in this kind. True, it doesn't matter what
words or sentiment you put to it. That's it was
that big a deal. Did you You knew in that
moment how significant it was, right, not just for you,
but for yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Because I think it's just the amount of people that
have helped me along my journey and even through my
mental health stuff. You know, like they're a great moment
in life. And you know, with all the racism stuff,
all the hardship, people were generally happy for me.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
So yeah, that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
Have you ever thought back and thought about the alternative
if you didn't survive that night?
Speaker 1 (56:39):
Ah, Yeah, I think you know, it'd be pretty It
would have been pretty hard for my family. I mean,
for obvious reasons. But I think I've met I've met
a lot of people in my lifetime, and a lot
of people have had positive impact on my life and
vice versa. And yeah, look, you know there's only one
(57:00):
of us. You know, there's only one nearly and there's
only one magic.
Speaker 3 (57:06):
So particularly our names.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
You know, you currently place individuals like that, and I
think that's also one of the biggest driving factors for
me that I also need to keep working on my
mental health. You know, it's just not something that just
goes away. You have to continue work at it. If
I don't, I could potentially find myself in that position
(57:31):
again because I can't say, you know, challenge is going
to stop. You know, there'll be big challenges going forward,
and how I deal with them is ultimately how strong
my mental health is.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
So I'm so glad Hendrix has you because the alternative
just it just doesn't sit right that you would have
missed his life.
Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah, nothing, that opportunity to to be a dad to him.
I look now and I just can't imagine my life
without him really.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
You know.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
Well it's hard work sometimes, but.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
You know it's does your dad hug him?
Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah? He loves my dad.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, it's funny. I bring him away over It's like
Dad's big child and he's playing with him, and I'm
just I've just never seen him, seen him like that before.
Even with my little nieces and nephews, they get so
much enjoyment.
Speaker 3 (58:37):
Yeah, you have a little glint in your eye when
you spoke about your dad, Hendrick, and I don't know
whether it's it's the love or the fact that it's
seeing the playful side of your dad that brings that
out of you.
Speaker 1 (58:49):
I did take a photo so I send it to you,
and he's just in the living room playing with him
and I'm just I was like, I've never seen that before.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
So, yeah, that's all.
Speaker 3 (59:01):
Before I let you go in. I really appreciate all
the time that you've given. I know it's even though
you've spoken about this a few times, it can't ever
be easy to talk about it. But I wanted to
ask you about the Demons because you've you've moved there
now and they won the flag and you obviously didn't
didn't play in the Grand Final. But one of my favorite,
and I think lots of people's favorite things about that
(59:24):
premiership is how hard you celebrated your teammates. You like,
and it seemed from the outside looking in, it was
genuine joy. They didn't seem to be jealousy of what
they were going through. You seem to just really want
to celebrate them. Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (59:45):
Yeah, I think you know. I've put some photos up
on my social media, and you know, playing for so long,
played in one final, so just seeing how hard they
worked all year, and I think we used to beat Melbourne,
you know when I was at North Melbourne, and just
seeing the team have success and how hard they worked
(01:00:06):
and believed in each other. It would have been nice
to have played, but yeah, I was just generally just
so excited and happy for them and the fans back home.
And I've got a lot of family friends who are
Melbourne supporters, so they were they were really excited. Hendrix's
grandfather is a Melbourne supporter, so yeah, it was so cool.
(01:00:27):
I've never had a team that I supported along the
years or over the years when I flagg in my lifeter.
Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
So you found yourself in the middle of the celebration.
The cup did a tour of everyone's home. Did it
go to your home?
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Yeah? I went to my mom and dads.
Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
It was?
Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
It was?
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
It was pretty nice just to share the joy. We
took it to Emily's mom and dads. I really enjoyed it,
took photos with it. You know, once you hold the
cup and realize it's actually quite heavy for you, but
it's just it's just so physical. You can say, oh,
(01:01:09):
you know, Richmond won the flag the year before and
stuff like that, until you're holding the cup. It's just
it's so real. Yeah, to bring it brings generine excitement
and enjoy to people.
Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
So your parents got hold of the physical cup.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Yeah, they got to hold the physical cup.
Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
What did they think of it? I mean that's kind
of one of those moments as well where you look
back and you they must have just been sitting there going,
what we didn't even know about this, you know, twenty
years ago?
Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
What the hell? I mean, I couldn't believe it that
everyone could take the cup home. So that was the
coolest thing about it. They were just so happy. I
mean if I played in it, I couldn't imagine the
joy in their hearts. But they were just so happy after.
I guess all these years are playing footy although I
didn't play in it, but me being part of a
(01:01:56):
team that that's that wins a flag.
Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
So you got another year?
Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, enough to work and keep being optimistic. I think
that's my driving factor.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
I want to finish by asking you. I know you
get asked this all the time, but when you really
genuinely think about it and everything you've been through, being
the first Sudanese born footballer to play in the AFL,
and now the story that you have that goes alongside it.
Do you take to heart what that means and what
(01:02:34):
you've done for so many people.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I never used to accept.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
I guess the credit to some of my friends of
whoever that when they say, you know, you're the first
one to start it, I just I just never felt satisfied.
Just I think because I'm still playing. Until Mac Andrew
went pick five, I was so happy and so emotional,
and I think being drafted as a rookie I've only
(01:03:01):
played fifty four games, so for multi culture footballers, when
recognized for a long time and drafted for other reasons
to build the game, which is fine, but I think
when you finally have someone back taking a big five, yeah,
I think I can be proud of that.
Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
So you did that? Yeah, like you actually you did that.
Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
When I win the flag, I'll thank you, not just
for today, but you've always been so polite and generous
with your time, and you were so bad at taking compliments.
Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
You're constantly looking away from it as I'm saying nice
things to you. But I'm so glad you're still here,
and I know I messaged you that at the time,
like a bazillion other people, but there's so much love
for you and respect for you, and you have enriched
the game tenfold, so I really appreciate it and appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Thank you. It's more a pleasure time.
Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Thanks for listening to this episode of ordinarily speaking. If
you want to discover more about mad Jack's life, and
I highly recommend it, check out his book mad Jack
by mad Jack daw Please remember you can reach Lifeline
on one three double one one four, or head to
Beyond Blue dot org dot AU. A new episode will
drop on Wednesday. Don't forget to hit subscribe and tell
(01:04:24):
your mates U
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