February 8, 2022 • 57 mins
#OrdineroliSpeaking Michael Hibberd is an AFL premiership player, having won a drought-breaking flag with the Melbourne Demons in 2021. On his way to the pinnacle of his career, Michael had to confront professional and personal trauma. Michael lived through the Essendon supplements scandal and was one of the banned 34 - it rocked his trust in people and his love for the game. But it was in 2020 that he suffered his greatest loss; in April 2020, Michael's brother Geoff was lost at sea. In this episode, Michael bravely reveals the depth of his grief and how he lives with unimaginable loss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Ordinarily Speaking, a premiership means the world. Given everything that
I've been through and overcome, it means so much.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
More tax on time. Hello and welcome to season three
of Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates resilience in sport.
(00:34):
I'm Narrowly Meadows. We kick off the season with a
man who has overcome public scrutiny and personal tragedy to
eventually achieve his ultimate sporting dream and AFL premiership, a
premiership fifty seven years in the making, no less. Michael
Hibbard was one of the band thirty four at Essendon.
The players endured the impacts of the supplement saga for years,
(00:57):
rocking their trust in people and love for the game. Ultimately,
Michael made the call to leave the club and move
to the Melbourne Demons. That professional turmoil was followed by
personal tragedy. In April twenty twenty, Michael's older brother Jeff
was lost at sea. He went out fishing one morning
and never returned. In September last year, when the final
(01:20):
siren rang on the AFL Grand Final, Michael's first thoughts
were with his big brother. He did it for him,
for his family, and in part for the band thirty four.
This is a story of incredible resilience motivated by the
love of family. We caught up in Michael's home in Melbourne.
I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much
(01:51):
for joining me, Michael, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
That's a pleasure. Good.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's good. Your story is one of just incredible resilience.
Were you always that way or is it something that
you've learned throughout life.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I guess growing up by older brothers and my dad
was pretty strong, staunch character. Yeah, so I guess over
the years you're just you're toughen up with an older
brother and a dad like that.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Guess the upbringing where else from you having an older
brother with older mates and you end up hanging out
with them and they toughen you up a little bit.
But being resilient, I guess yeah. I think you just
you find yourself in situations and you never know how
you're going to handle them until they're in front of you,
And I guess being resilient. I think I am a
resilient character. Hopefully people see that.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It sounds like you've got a few stories from your childhood.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
By that description, Yeah, yeah, plenty of stories.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Obviously, there are two older brothers. One that lives in
Darwen is my half brother. Yeah, we speak on the
phone regularly every day, and we've got many stories together.
And Jeff even dad, like his dad was a footy
player down home, and apparently he's pretty.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Rough and tumble, and you know.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I used to play local footy and everyone used to
tell me about how he was a good player, but
he was a bit of a thug.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
So you hate me saying that, but yeah, I guess.
You know, you have no choice.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
When that's the perception of your family. You want to
kind of live up and make them proud. And I guess, yeah,
that's kind of how I've been.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You've said all of that with a smile on your face. Laugh.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It makes me laugh thinking of just mu childhood and
some of the stuff we used to get up to,
and yeah, just the mischief and and all.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, did you get into trouble.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Trouble found me. I feel like trouble we used to
find me quite.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Regularly, and over the years I've been able to divert
my life in a direction where I'm Trouble doesn't find
me as much anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Well, I like to think that anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Is it where are you from Frankston?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Some of it was were at the town suburb I
grew up in, which is probably ten minutes out of Frankston,
ten minutes out of Mornington. So when people say from Frankston,
I always liked via towards Mornington, so it seems a
bit nicer. But because I played VFL at Frankston, so
I got drafted from.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, the stigma is I'm a Frankston boy, but yeah,
you know I wear it. That's fine. I am.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I guess at Frankston boy. I'm from down that area
and can be a bit rough growing up down there.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Once again said with a smile on your face, I
love it. I wanted to start by asking you about
everything that went down at Essendon. It was such a
big story from the outside looking in. What was it
like living through that as one of the thirty four?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean there's so much to It's that was
a fair while ago. I was in my second year,
you know when Saga started. I think it ended twenty twelve, thirteen,
and you know, I was pretty young, and it was
it was big news, and I'm at one of the
biggest clubs in the land, and you know, this is
on front and back news, you know, nearly every day
(05:03):
for a long time, so it was how you couldn't
escape it. It was, you know, sometimes quite emotional, but
you know, the best thing was on the weekends when
you could just go out and play and try and
put it behind you.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
But it was hard.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It was hard for everyone at different levels. Definitely had
my moments, but it was hard on me because you've
felt embarrassed to even go to family functions or or
even out in public because it was the first thing
people that'd ask you. And you know, over the course
of time, it's become a bit easier and I can
talk about it pretty openly now, so it's fine now
I feel like i'ved up with it pretty well. But
(05:39):
at the time and over five year span, it definitely
wore people down, and I was one of those as well.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It must have been hard. When you say you were
only in your second year, I mean, of course you were,
but it shocks me to think back that that was happening.
Then that's a really hard thing to know what to
do as a young player, I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, definitely, still I'm still bullish on players were in
no fault or no wrong I think as a second
year player, it's like, you know, someone runs.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Out of water bottle.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You expect there's water in that bottle, and at the time,
you know, I think the leadership group did a enough
to make sure nothing there was no wrongdoing or anything
bad was getting thrown into us, and we were definitely
told that there was nothing. And you know it, as
a first second year player, you're kind of just doing
(06:33):
what you're told. You're trying to make your name for
yourself and make sure you're you know, you're fitting in
with the team. And yeah, at the time, you're just
trying to you just fall on the pack. I guess
I wasn't. I was only twenty one or twenty two.
So yeah, it was hard to know what to do
and what was right and what was wrong. But I
guess hindsight it's a lovely thing and if we had
(06:54):
that then things would be different, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Did you at any point worry, like, did you to
worry about what you've done and your role in it?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Not personally, I think because there's so many other older
guys that were you know, job was the face of
it really and a.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Lot of the leadership.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was just kind of just in the group that
was just hanging on and wondering what was going on.
And it was a bit of that, like a bit
of anxiety and you know, what's going to happen to us?
You know, we're playing I think we got kicked out
of the finals one year, and you know, just like
there's so much talk around in the media of what
was going to happen, and then we were told certain
things were going to happen, you know, and we did know,
(07:33):
and ever knew. It was just this unknown and that
put a stress on your day to day life. Was
it was just a constant talking point at the club
and the people around you. So it made it made
go on to training hard at times because that was
rather than focus on getting better and training hard and
wanted to play well.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
That was always in the back of your mind.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So I mean, you know, we had we had each
other to lean on, but it was definitely hard, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Does it stay with you when you go home as well.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, definitely, it's on the news, it's you talk about it,
you know, and we're having so many meetings. We used
to call them crisis meetings. The AFLPA would come in,
or a STATA would come in, or lawyers would come
in and talk to us. You know, this is a
bit later, not so early, twenty fourteen fifteen kind of times,
(08:24):
Like you have a lot of these meetings that are
happening regularly, and then it's hard not to go home
and talk to your partner about it or your family
of bringing up and wondering what's going on. You know,
a lot of the younger kids, a lot of their
families were I really wanted to know what was what
was happening there to their children. And that's fair enough.
(08:45):
I'm sure I'd be the same if I was in
there boat. So I did go home with us.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Did it take a toll on you that time?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
It did.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I think as I said, like just little things like
family stuff, birthdays. Would probably turn down a few of
them right at the peak of when it was really
big news and you know, when the points got taken
away from us, or you know, certain times where it
was big news in the media. There was definitely times
where I'd turn down certain social events just because I
(09:15):
couldn't be bothered with the questions and all the talk
around it and if someone asked me a question, I'm
applied enough to try answer it, but I'll try avoid
the question altogether. So I did that a little bit,
and that definitely took a toll. And obviously the year
where we did get banned in twenty sixteen, it was
a pretty low moment for me and all of us really, like, yeah,
(09:38):
it was hard to especially I thought probably that was
a time where twenty six is nearly your prime. I
was playing some good footy at the time, and I thought,
you know, I'd make the next sleep and then to
be a year to be taken out and not knowing
how you will come back. The anxiety around that, yeah,
definitely stressed me out and a.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Lot of other What was that like when you first
heard about that band? What was that moment?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Like, we're all in a hotel in Saint Kilda. It
might have been an overtell or something like that, And
I kind of remember a conversation someone said, you know,
there was about four days of this hearing and we
were getting dripped fed a bit of information and apparently
(10:25):
one day we're up by four goals. It was the
talk that was going so we put it to footy
talk analogy, were up by four goals and then apparently
at three quarter time we were down by ten, so
we were like, yeah, so that was hard. And then
when the verdict came in, you know, been in a
room of your teammates, there would have been I'm not
(10:45):
sure all the thirty four were at least twenty to
twenty five of us seeing you know, guys you look
up to grown men cry knowing that you know you've
been taken out for a year of footy agame you
love and doing things together, and we've been through so
much together. We firstly we got off and then the
(11:06):
appeal went against us, so.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
That was hard.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That was a very emotional day, just as I said,
seeing your mates cry and and your leaders cry and
not knowing what's next, not knowing what to do, and
not knowing what will happen or how long exactly at
the time was pretty tough. But yeah, we pretty much
just went out and got on the piss and tried
(11:33):
to enjoy each other's company and we'd see what happened next.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Was there a moment where it hit you personally?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I think the first that day was more shock. I
think the weeks after that it hit me pretty hard
when you know, I didn't have the routine of footy anymore.
We weren't allowed to go into the club. And I've
never had a year year off of footy ever, and
I'm finally living my dream playing AFL, And how can
(12:02):
I come back from this? What will happen to me
after a year off not being in a professional environment.
I'm not the most naturally gifted athlete. I have to
work hard on my endurance and all that. So there
was that playing on in the back of my mind
a lot, and there was different stages, especially over the year,
where yeah, I was really struggling with it. I remember
(12:23):
going away with my wife, which was my partner at
the time, my wife now. We went to Bali a
couple of weeks after, and I had a few too
many beers one day and it kind of popped into
my mind and I was just a mess, crying and
I held it together pretty well until then, and I
think that's when I realized this has probably been weighing
(12:46):
on me for a while, and just unleashed a lot
of a lot of my motion and tears and kind
of glad I got it out. And then it took
a while for me to open up and talk about
that again.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Did you ever get help to talk about it?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I mean the a f L and the a
f L p A are really good with speaking to
people and really pushing players to talk to people. I
think during the whole court process.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
During.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
For the players individual compensation and stuff, we all spoke
to a psych and they gave us a a rating
of how well or how badly you've been coping with it,
and guys at different levels. And you know, I spoke
to someone pretty actively too for a month or two
to make sure I was all good and I was fine.
(13:34):
I was pretty keen to just take time away from footy.
That was I think the best thing for me at
the time. I didn't really think about football. A lot
of the boys might have been well documented that everyone
trained down at I think Saint Bernard's there for a
while is about ten of them, and you would have
been lucky to see me there once. I remember me
(13:55):
and Michael Hurley would just go run the ten, you know,
twice a week to make sure we don't flow out
to one hundred killers and.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
We just enjoyed our.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Break running with the bulls as well.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, I did that. Yeah, that was when we went
to Europe. So's I mean, that's another thing.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
That year.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I tried to take as many positives out of it
as I could, and I was able to do Europe summer.
I spent a month with the boys, I spent a
month with my partner. After I spent a month with
the boys and their memories. I'll hold forever with those guys,
and I'm sure they'll say the same. We had some
good times and I did some stuff that being an
AFL football you never get the opportunity to do. So
(14:31):
there are positives to take out of it. Obviously, you
don't want to ever miss a year of footing and
one where I thought maybe I was hitting to the
peak of my football prime right in your mid twenties,
mid to late twenties. But I tried to be positive
and thinking of the positives.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Does it rock your trust in people when you go
through something like that, I.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Think subconsciously it has to you do question a lot
of things now. I mean, I'm pretty Joe of your
kind of guy, and even the doctors will give give
me a panadeine now, and we joke, is this panadeine.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Like ed is a joke and we have a laugh
about it.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
But there must be a little bit of, you know,
a lack of trust now that I do have in
people like that. I mean, I do trust the doctors
at the Mobile Football Club, that's for sure now. And
I trusted the doctors at essen and Bruce Reid. He
was like a second father to me, and I don't
think he had any part to play in what happened.
But you know, there are some people out there that
(15:32):
do do some dodgy things, and I think everyone's going
to be careful of that. But you know, I feel
like now I'm in a better spot and a bit older,
a bit wiser.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Do you reflect on it with any anger still?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
My wife actually asked me this this morning when we're
talking about it. And I like to think that it
was so much has happened after that, and it's sliding
doors moment. You know, it was a decision I made
to leave Essenon. I had another year in my contract
at the time, and I thought I was getting a
bit stale and lost a lot of motivation. Couldn't really
(16:07):
see myself walking through those doors every day because of
what was happening. All those meetings we went through all
the sadness, I felt like I needed a fresh start.
So when I left and all the things that have
happened since, I try not to look back with it
with anger because it's really it's been a beneficial thing
for me. As I said, I had a good time
in that year off and going to the Melbourne Football
(16:30):
Club was definitely one of the best things that's happened
to me. So things happen in life, and I feel
like that happened for a reason. I felt that's just
one of them. Wasn't fun at the time, it was
what was going on, but it's created a lot of
good things in my life.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I love that you spoke about your family earlier. How
hard was it on them going through all of this
and seeing someone they love and care about not being
able to be at their best.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, it's fun. It was more, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
My brother was the one that was like, you know,
this is this is bullshit. You know.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I was just like, yeah, I know, we'll get through
it kind of thing. Mum and Dad.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I think they asked questions and they didn't really take
They thought it was fine. You know, I wasn't grown
a third tail or anything. Whatever happened or so as
long as my health was fine, they were fine. And
I think, yeah, they capes with it pretty well. There's
a lot of younger players and their families, you know,
they were a bit more stressful with my family. Were
(17:32):
My family pretty easy going, lars a characters. So I
just was telling him everything was fine, and they dealt
with it pretty well.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You mentioned your brother. There is that Jeff who's annoyed
on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah. Always, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and
if anything happens to his little brother, who would Yeah,
he'd get pretty dirty. So he was. He was just
pissed off. He couldn't watch me for another year. And
as my family were they you know, and my family
are no different to anyone else's. Our families lived through
(18:06):
us because playing footage gives them so much pride and excitement.
And that was probably the one thing that hurt me
the most, that that was taken away from them, Not
so much me, but taken away from my friends and
family that they can't watch someone they love play, you know,
AFL footage on the MCG in front of big crowds
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It's so interesting that you say that because so many
people say, you know, if you do what you love,
you never work a day in your life. But also
what I've come to learn is if that gets taken
away from you, everything you love gets taken away from
you at the same time, and then you have this
resentment towards the thing that you love as well. Is
that kind of how you felt? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Spot on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I mean it's never been articulated a lot of that
to me, and but it is. It's so true. You
do love playing footy Like I've lived my life to
get to where I was or where I am, and
it got taken away. And there was times where I
love footy. I didn't watch footy that whole year, you know,
I just couldn't watch the finals. I couldn't didn't watch
(19:04):
many games. I wasn't allowed to go to any games,
and yeah, I wasn't really too interested either. So yeah,
it's it's pretty spot on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Your lovely wife bringing us a word.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Thank you so much. That's sparkling water.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Want to thank you. It's nice bag, by the way,
that's cute. Did you ever think about walking away for good?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
No, not during that time. No, it was in my
MIAs of what else am I going to do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I was allowed to footy, and I still felt like
I had a lot to give, but there was you know,
I had a I had a pretty badly nagging knee
injury at the time. Tender artists where a few of them.
You ask a few of the boys, all of them
will tell you it's an absolute miracle how I got
back to play. I could across the road without hobbling.
I kept that pretty quiet from Melbourne, yeah, because I
(20:07):
wasn't training much, and when I did train, I couldn't run.
I could only run maybe a couple of hundred meters
before I'd have to stop. And that stressed me out
because I was like, you know, how much worse is
this going to get? Is it ever going to get better?
You have these things in your mind that constantly play out,
And luckily for me, you know, I held that away
(20:28):
from Melbourne and ended up getting a four year deal
there and it ended up getting pretty It ended up
being It took a while, took a few months. I
didn't do much of the preseason that year I was there.
But yeah, I'm lucky it got better. But I never
looked I never wanted to walk away from it. I
love footy too much. I love the camaraderie, I love
the locker room, you know. I love how proud it
(20:50):
makes my family and my friends. So it wasn't really
I wasn't really a thought.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
If somebody is listening who feels like they've been wronged,
you know, you talk about the trust and all those
sort of things, what would be the greatest advice that
you would give to them of how you got through
that people, because it was years that you had to
endure this.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I think for me what helped was just having
people around, having my teammates to rely on, talk to
lean on, you know, because there was some hard times
and I'm usually one to try to battle some of
my emotions on my own, which over the years I've
learned the wrong way to go about it. And whether
(21:31):
it's my wife, whether it's my mates, and I'm lucky
I've got so many good teammates and had so many
good teammates that esther than that I could rely on
and talk to and who were going through the same thing.
That really helped me get through that. And obviously anyone
hopefully everyone's got a family out there that they can
talk to and get through hard times.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Together with just on that in twenty seventeen, when you
guys all come back and you're playing and three of you, Patty, Ryder,
Michael Early best mate and you win all Australian honors.
You smile when I bring it up again, you put
into words what that meant.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
It gives me chills, to be honest, and like, I
nearly get emotional thinking about it, because I went from
thinking I wasn't going to play and missing here and footy,
and yeah, it was one of my prouder moments. Obviously,
we run the flag this year and I've had a
daughter this year, and all these good moments have happened
in my life. But that's it's right up there. It's
(22:30):
especially do it with Heurls and Patty and we've been
through so much together.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
It was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
What is it that makes you emotional? Is the matship
of it?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And you know, a lot of hard work, a lot
of doubt and a lot of proven a lot of
people wrong making a move from a club. You know,
I loved all the people there and a lot of
people didn't want me to leave, and I kind of
went against a lot of the people that I cared
about my family, to be honest, wanted me to stay
at Essendon and I made a choice. It was a
(23:03):
hard one at the time, and in that moment, even
my first game back, you know, just it's a lot
of emotion and then you know it's win Australian and
when I hadn't I hadn't had one before, and I
was just very proud and it made it all worth
it in a way.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I can't imagine you're somebody that loves wearing a jacket
like that, but that would have been pretty special putting
on that kind of jacket in that kind of moment.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, it's it stays.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
It's probably got dust in there in their wardrobe somewhere,
and every now and then I'll play play a prank
on ant and just walk out of the shaw walk
out of the bathroom with it on. But if she's
got the ships to me and I'll try and make
her laugh and now I can put the medal on
with it. So nah, but yeah, it's I mean, it's there.
(23:56):
It's something I'll it's something I'm very proud of, especially
considering everything we went through, and especially do it with
Heurls and Patty Hers especially one of my best mates,
and we were the ones that just trained together that
whole lot, that whole year off, So it made it
even more sweet, Like we've got a lot of crucism
for not doing the football program during that year off,
(24:19):
and it was a nice, a nice feeling to do
that and stand up.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
There with him.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
You've mentioned your brother Jeff a couple of times. Tell
me a little bit about him and what he was
like as a mate and a brother.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, he's a jovial, frankster. Trouble found him more than
it found me. Growing up. He was everyone's friend. He'd
give his shirt off his back for anyone he'd met.
You know, he got along with all my friends, both
footy clubs, all the friends that grew up with, and
he used to getting a lot of mischief, but there
(24:52):
wouldn't be many people that say too many bad words
about him. There's so many stories like probably can't say
on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Just give us one of them.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I probably shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I was talking to Stephen May yesterday and I told
him a story about Jeff, and he goes every time
we talk about him. There's another story that I haven't
heard before. But he was just you know, he did
do anything, whether it was right or wrong, to try
and make people laugh. And that was sometimes hard because
(25:25):
he put you in a spot of bother where you
could get in trouble at times, but you wouldn't have
him any other way. He made He constantly made people laugh.
So and he was a good guy.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do you have any nicknames for each other or that to.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Call him the nomad? He's just lived the life of
a nomad. You know.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
He would find a way to only work two days
a week but have enough money to live the life
he wanted. And you know, maybe in mum's house and
maybe the mate's house.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He never knew what he was going to do.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And like he's just yeah, he lives, lived the party.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
He lived a good lifestyle, and yeah he had he
had a good fun life, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
What kind of relationship did you guys have together and
what did your footy career mean to him?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean, I think back just when we're kids, and
it was always footy footy. We'd kick the footy out
the front and he'd stand out the front of one
light post, I'd stand out in front of the other
and would kick the footy for hours just trying to
count how many times we'd hit the light posts. And
he's three and a half years older than me, and
I had the opportunity of playing with him several times.
(26:29):
And I remember I was I think I was fourteen.
Maybe I was playing seniors for our local senior team.
Mum and dad had to give the club permission to
let me play beausel was so young. Dads, we find
jeffs with him, kind of think Jeff's only eighteen at
the time.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And I think I got bumped. Me and my brother
used to fight a lot, you.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Know, like gett into physical wrestles and every now and
then a punch should be thrown. But that's just how
we were, you know. We loved each other, but we
used to argue, bicker and fight andmember. On this day,
I got bumped. I was fourteen, and I would have
like bumped me in Jeff run from the other side
of the wing to try to floor this guy.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And I remember we're on the ring.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I was wrestling with Jeff because I didn't want him
to stick up for me. Yeah, so I was like,
can look after myself on fourteen, you know, like I'm
playing seniors and like the next, everyone's like, what's going
on here? The two brothers are on the same team
of fighting. So yeah, but like how much my foot
he meant to him? Yeah, I mean he loved it.
(27:28):
Even when I thought I wasn't going to get drafted,
I missed a few drafts, he was always the one
that cheering me on, saying, mate, you get drafted, like
you're too good, not too And when I was doubting myself,
he was. He was always the one there to make
sure I believed in myself. And you know, I got drafted.
He was probably as proud as I was.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So what did you think about the fact that you
became this footy star.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, I think he thought he was a star. I
think as well.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, but you know, he was at every game, the
beer in hand and probably cheering as loud as anyone.
But I just know how proud he was and how
much he loved it. And yeah, I mean that's what
I was saying before about the people that you play
footy for, and he was definitely one of them. And
I run out now. I think last year I wore
(28:17):
an armband every game last year, and you know, I
just thinking about him every day.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
So he's he's a special man and he means a
lot to me.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Michael Hibbard April twenty twenty.
Tell me about that day and when you first heard
that he'd gone missing.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I remember my part of my wife's family have a
beach house down and Dremana and Jeff went missing off Flinders,
which is only fifteen minute drive away on the other
side of the on the other side of the bay.
And he's a keen fisherman. I think he he had
a few beers with his mates and went out pretty early.
But I remember being down there that morning and we
(29:08):
were about to leave head back up to the city
and the wings were that bad that I didn't even
want to take out the bins. I didn't ever want
to go outside. We even postponed out drives just because
we didn't want to go through that weather. And then
I'll get a phone and get back home and I've
jumped in bed. I would have been maybe eleven o'clock
at night. Ten o'clock at night. My little sister rings
(29:30):
me and she's like, oh, I've heard from Jeff. I said, no,
what's going on. I don't want to alarm you. You know,
he's no one's heard from him all day, and his
car and his trailer at the Flinders Peer. His boat's
not here, and you know, no one's heard from him.
And I'm not Flinder's piers surely didn't go at fishing today.
He only had a three meter dinghy or something. And
(29:52):
she's like, no, no, there's helicopters and stuff looking. I'm like,
this is serious, and I knew them and there, but yeah,
he wasn't so he wasn't coming back. And but my
family didn't. They still and Jeff's gone missing several times,
(30:13):
like you know, for days where he's with his mates
and he might break his phone or something. But yeah,
I knew then and there I've been out fishing several
times that he was gone, and because just because of
the weather and how bad it was, and it was
pretty hard to My sister was so calm on the phone.
I don't think she understood the severity of it at
the time. And yeah, it was hard to try and
(30:39):
navigate a little bit of the hopes that we all
were having. But knowing that the hope was so slim
for me, but it was so high for my family
at the time, and yeah, it was. It was a
tough night and I'm not sure how I slept, but
I woke up at about I would have got a
couple of hours sleep and I drove straight down there
to the pier. The next day, I spoke to the
(31:01):
police and made sure I was the first point of
call because my mum and dad couldn't really handle what
was going on at the time.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And yeah, it was. It was pretty hard.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I think as soon as the phone call ended from
my sister that night, I broke down at the end
of the bed. It's probably a moment my wife probably
scarred by more than me. Yeah, because I knew. I
knew straight away, but my family didn't. That was probably
the hard thing.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
How do you get through a moment like that?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I think I think I was.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I went into just the care take a role for
my family, to be honest, and that helped distract me
from probably the emotions that I was going through. And then,
you know, just trying to to be strong as strong
as I could. I'd take my moments to cry on
the shower rather than show not It's not weakness to cry,
(31:55):
but I knew it would flare up my family, and
I didn't want to see them upset, So yeah, I
take time to myself to to let out a cry.
And I was very lucky, you know, my wife was
with me the whole time, and my mates like EURLs
and a lot of the boys I played footy with,
Jake Malsham, Alex Brown, Tom Bell Chambers, guys that I've
(32:19):
spent a lot of time playing foota with. They drove
straight down to Jermana to be with me. And I'm
very lucky that I've got friends and a wife that
were able to support me during that tough, tough period.
We're on the COVID break at the time before the
round two. I don't know if you're sure you remember,
but so it was hard, you know, like we weren't
(32:42):
supposed to have more than two people in the house
and we had about twelve. You know, we broke all
COVID laws and I think the police understood that.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
So it was hard.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It was still it's still still pretty raw, and still
get a little bit emotional when I talk about it now.
But I'm very lucky that I have the people in
my life that were able to support me and help
me get through it. But definitely supporting my family and
trying knowing that I needed to be a rock for
them was a good distraction for me.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Were you getting looked after as well? Though?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I think, yeah, I spoke to I spoke to people
about it. I made sure I set up day if
I were really good. They gave people just for my
my niece. My brother had an eight year old or
seven at the time, seven year old at the time.
They made sure that they organized for her, you know,
(33:36):
Jeff's ex partner, to talk to people, my mom, my dad,
and my sister, and I made sure that was happening
on a regular basis, because you know, who knows how
bad things can get in your mind when something like
that happens.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
As we were all new.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
To it and I was doing the same, I was
pretty active on speaking to the PYC at the club
about how I was feeling and more about how to
navigate my family because that was what I was worried about.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
The most, and also just always rely on my mates.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
So I was sitting there talk to them about it
and yeah, have a cry and have a beer, and
I felt like that was the best way for me
and yeah, to not distract myself from what happened, but
to I mean talk it out and kind of just
just try to get through every day, to be honest,
every day, he just I just wanted every day to
(34:29):
just keep ticking along and hopefully you'd get easier. And
it gets easier, but it's still hard.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, after that initial twenty four hours, what transpires from
there because he was never found, right, yeah, it was, I.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Mean, he was never found.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Twenty four hours later, you know, you know, we're hoping
that you know, he's lost his phone in this is
a slim hope that my family had.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
He's lost his phone, he had a life.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Jacket on and he's at least swept to a shore
and he just his phone doesn't work and he's a
long walk from a house or something, and we're just
waiting for a phone call.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
That was kind of the hope that where that everyone had.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
As I said, in my mind, I knew that was
a long shot, but that was my family's hope. And
you know, I think, yeah, just twenty four hours later,
there's the boat. The boat that Jeff was in was
found a pyramid rock which on Philip Poland smashed up
against rocks and there was no sign of the two boys.
Jason was the other guy that was with. He was
(35:37):
a twenty one year old kid and my brother was
thirty four, and they wanted to go squidding and obviously
picked the wrong day to do it. And yeah, that
was that was pretty hard. And there was always this thought,
not knowing too much about the water, that if he
had a life jacket, maybe he would just float out
and eventually they'll find him. But we were told that
(35:59):
he had about fifteen and it's to live in that
in the water, so we knew once they went overboard.
Well I didn't know at the time, but once I
was told that once he was overboard, you know, he
would have he would have hypothermia and died pretty quickly.
So yeah, it's been pretty hard, you know, not having
a body, not having not been able to have a funeral,
(36:20):
all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I mean once
they found the boat, that was just another another piece
that was hard to It became a lot more real.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Has your family been able to grieve him?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
And no. I mean, you know, mum, it's pretty active
on Facebook and nearly and it's it's hard. I nearly
really nearly need to mute my mum. Sometimes because you know,
there's always a post about my brother and it can
trigger me sometimes, and you know, I think about him
every day, but sometimes seeing baby photos of us together
or you know, birthdays, Christmases and stuff, it's it's you know,
(36:57):
it does bring out that raw emotion still to this day.
It has been eighteen months now, so I mean, to grieve, have.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
A funeral, we weren't able to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Only actually got the death certificate about three weeks ago.
So yeah, I'm reading that and reading the transcripts of
what transpired before that, which you know, as I said,
I was the first point of call to the police
and they sent all that to me before my family,
and I still can't.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Show on that.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I can't let them read any of that stuff because
I'm fearful of how it's going to make them feel,
and I don't think they want to read it anyway.
But yeah, we hope. We still haven't had a funeral.
We try we organize a memorial. They threw us in
the lockdown, so it was about two days before we
were planning to have a big memorial and then we
couldn't have one. So I mean, we've had little family
(37:49):
gatherings for him, but nothing where friends and family, aunties,
uncles have been able to sit there and tell the
story of Jeff. We haven't been able to do that,
and I think we're going to try to do it
at the two year, at the two year point of
he's missing.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
So I mean, that'd been nice to do. After that
is the raw emotion to be there, and hopefully it's
just a celebration.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, how did it feel when you're holding the death
certificate in your hand?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
After that, it's on my email, so I don't actually
have a physical certificate, but I mean I got something
a few months back saying he'd nearly been concluded. And
I've read all the transcripts, and you know, they have
videos that were happening, you know, ten minutes, an hour,
two hours before, messages, phone calls who we'd spoke to,
(38:38):
and even snapchat videos that they'd saved, and you know,
and sometimes some of the stuff was to them talking
about going fishing and oh but the weather's a bit
bargain like. Reading those things made it feel so like
I felt like I was there, and that was pretty hard,
you know, and then actually getting the desertificate and not
(38:58):
being able to actually have a school funeral until you
so you kind of have have one of those. Is
is hard because you know he's not here. That's that's
been pretty hard for my family, more so my family
than me. I mean, I've had so many distractions along
the way that have been able to Like football was
just a blessing. Being able to just go out and
(39:19):
train and have people around me constantly helped helped me
get through a tough year and a half, whereas my
parents were in lockdown at home on their owns, with
their own feelings, and.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That was hard.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, And I guess the hardest part was only a
few weeks a month or whatever after he passed, I'll
get shipped off to a hub in Queensland. I can't
even be there to support my family. Yeah, that was
that was hard in itself.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
So yeah, how tough was that for you? To get
through the hub and the complications and compounding nature of COVID.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, it was early. It was really hard.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
And I'm still fascinated by the water now still, Like
I remember, I were in Manly only I'm not sure
how long ago Jefford passed. It would only been a
month or two and we went to Manly for her
first hub and as the surf of a decade or
something that was out there, and I just felt like
jumping out in the water and you're trying to experience
maybe what he was feeling just before, you know, the
(40:21):
lack of control you have in the water. And I'm
still fascinated by that. I mean, I don't go far
enough to where I'm going to drown or anything like that,
but I think some people will steer away from the water,
and I'm kind of gravitating to it because of what's happened. Yeah,
I mean it was hard just being away from my
family and hearing how emotional everyone was and not being
(40:42):
able to be physically there to cuddle my sister and
my mom and my dad, and you know, it was
really hard. But one thing it has done, you know,
we tell each other we love it. I love each
other on the phone more more than ever, and when
we catch up, I make sure you know I do
show that a bit more when it probably when it
(41:03):
takes something like this to happen to your family to
realize how much you do love these people and you
don't show it or tell people enough.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Getting in the water, is it? Is it wanting a
closeness to him, or is it wanting an understanding of
what happened or what.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I think it was more of an understanding of what
happened and just knowing how how and he had such
like so limited control of what's going on out there,
And you.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Know, I do I do.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I go down to the Flinder's Pier to talk to him.
I've done that a few times, you know, on Christmas,
on his birthdays, and so I do. I do feel
like I am closer to him when I'm in the water.
So I don't know where he is, but I know
he's out there somewhere kind of thing. So that's something
that you know, I don't have a I don't have
(41:54):
the cemetery to go to. I just go to I'll
go down to Flinders Pier. But yeah, definitely, initially the
fascination with the water was to understand maybe what what
what he was feeling just before he died.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
What do you say to him when you visit him?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
That's yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I've got a nine month old daughter, and I knew
he was really excited for us to have kids, and
I was to talk to him about her, to be honest, Sorry, yeah,
I was telling him about her and and how much
I miss him.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Okay, yeah I could.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Sorry, I don't apologize.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's sorry. That's a that's a hard
one for me to talk about my daughter. And she'll
never get to know uncle Jeff. And it's a picture
of him in the him presenting me my first album, Jumper,
and there's a photo of it in the landrum and
I get her there every morning, I say good morning.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
To uncle Jeff.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
So she starts pointing at now. It's quite funny, but yeah,
it's it's very sad.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
You want her to know exactly who he was and
who is to you?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, So yeah, the morning rituals I love money, wine,
fridge and I say salo to Salo to the fridge,
and make sure you salo to uncle Jeff.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
And yeah, she will, you know, it is. It is very.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Sad, and it's emotional for me that she will. She
won't physically know her uncle Jeff, but she'll definitely she'll
know who he was, and I'll make.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Sure of that.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And I don't think people are ever are ever dead
until you stop talking about them. And I never stopped
talking about Jeff. I'll tell him to tell stories. Every
every time I get on the beers with my mates,
and you know, we're family functions and we all still
talk about him. So in my mind, he's still here
because we've still got so many memories and so many
(44:09):
good times and so many things to laugh about. So
he's still here in Mars, and every now and then
I find myself talking to him. Before the Grand Final,
I said, if you're going to do anything for me,
just make sure you make sure you make us win,
because you know Yomi enough.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
And yeah, he did that, so that's nice.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
His daughter as well. How much of an active role
do you play in her life?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, COVID over the last six months has been hard,
But initially my wife and I would get her a
couple of days a week to make sure, you know,
she knew.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
She had people, had people that loved.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Her and that would take care of her if anything,
if anything ever happened. And obviously the worst happened with Jeff,
but we were, you know, because they were in Dramaa
at the time, and we've got the beach house down
in Dremana, so we we we'd go down there and
spend a fair bit of time with her. And and
prior to Jeff passing, I didn't have a massive relationship
(45:14):
with with Indy, my niece. We'd speak on the phone
a little bit, and when I was with Jeff, i'd
see her, but i'd never get time just us and
and we Anthony and I really took that on for
for for a for a few months. We'd get her
a couple of days a week and and make sure
that you know, I was just trying to do fun
(45:35):
things with her. And you know, she still doesn't talk
about him too much. It's but she doesn't like bringing
it up. She's she's a strange one. She's that's a sink.
It makes us sad, so she doesn't not talking about it.
But we try to make sure that there's never going
to get to a point where she forgets him, and
I don't think she ever will. But yeah, it is hard,
(45:57):
especially as I said during COVID, not to be able
to support her as much as I would have liked.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
It was definitely hard, and I just I just knew
that's what Jeff would have wanted, for us to go
down there and really make sure.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
She was okay. And I felt like I played my
role on that and still do to this day.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
What does a footy club mean when you're going through
something like that.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's I mean, I'm very lucky that I am in
the industry. I mean, because I'm not sure I could
have it made it a lot easier. I'm not sure
I could have done it without them. Everyone throws their
arms around you. You know, footy club is a loving
place with a lot of everyone gets along really well.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
And to go.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Into a footy club and them know and what happened
and to help me in whatever way they can, whether
it's just a hug or you ask him if I'm okay,
taken me out for a beer, and you know, and
then it's good. Like I can share these stories about
Jeff and that makes me feel better. But I'm very
fortunate that, in probably the worst tragedy I've had in
(47:07):
my life, that I'm at a football club right behind
me and a good family and friends.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
So you get to twenty twenty one and you've had
all sorts of injuries and issues, but you find yourself
back in the team and they make it through to
a Grand final and you find yourself in that team
that day. Given everything you've spoken about in the last
hour Essendon, going through everything with your brother and how
(47:35):
much he loved your footy career. What did that day
mean to you?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, it was very special. You know, it just didn't
seem real. You know, all these things, all these sliding
to all moments, all the things that happen. It seems
obviously not the jefferal thing was worth it, but everything
that I've been through just you know, it was justified.
And knowing I was talking to Jeff before the game
(48:05):
the night before, I think even a couple of lots
Steven May even said he even send him a prayers
and make sure we win. And you know it is
it's very it's very nice, and it's just an unbelievable
feeling and it still is now thinking about everything that's
happened and to be able to live out the lifelong
(48:27):
dream of winning a premiership with the team, it's what
everyone strives to do. And knowing that I've been through
a fair bit and gotten out the other side, he
was gratifying, and the competitor in me like, I'm very
proud of what I've done, and the competitor in me
this is like, Okay, now I want to do it.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Again.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
I want that feeling again. But I just knew Jeff
would be so proud, and I knew my family were proud,
and I know that you know they were thinking of
him when you know they they were like, he got
you back in the team. You know, at the end
of the year, they're saying all these things. You know,
he had, he had something to play and that. I'm like, well,
I thought I had something to do with it as well. Yeah,
(49:10):
I've been training my ass off heres.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah. Well, you know, timing is everything.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I was very you know, even though I played most
of the year, and timing was everything for me to
fall into that team in the prelim week and per
form my role on prelim day and then and then
on the grand final day on the big stage, and
to have a metal around my neck and to celebrate
with my family even though they weren't there physically, or
(49:38):
my brother was from darn. Actually I ran him, ran him,
I ran the cup over to him. He got't after
you saw that footage, but he Yeah, that was that
was really nice and makes it all worth it.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Did you you said you right on your wristband?
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Did you say, yeah, yeah, I wore in two thousand
and twenty, I wore an armband all year. I didn't
do that this year. The part, the part of me
needs to, you know, not ever forget Jeff. I talked
to him every day. I think of him every day.
But I thought that's you know, that was last year
and this year's a new year. And the Grand Final
(50:14):
day was obviously a really special one for me where
I knew he was going to be with me. Yeah,
I just wrote g H and no Mad on my wristband,
so I gave it a kiss before the game, gave
it a kiss afterwards, and I didn't I didn't take
it off till about Thursday. I don't think same as
(50:35):
my medal, I or that for a week straight. And
I left my Uncle tape on for about four days,
and I left the Risk tape on for about seven.
So I'm just yeah, it was, Yeah, he was with
me for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Did you feel at any moment during that game that
it was.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I mean, it was like I was in the second half,
I kind of just had front row seats to the
greatest on slaught ever and yeah, in the in the
ground final, but as soon as the sign went it
was hard not to think of him. Straight away how
much he meant to my footy career and how much
my footy career meant to him. And you know, if
(51:16):
if there are if he is up there watching and
he was watching that game, for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah he would have been pretty damn parad I reckon.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, I think he would have been. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
After the Grand Final? Did you get any messages from
the Bombers.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Boys several before and after?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
That's pretty cool?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so many and and Esson supporters, a
lot of COG groups at Estenon, and I used to
make friends with a lot of those people. Spent a
lot of time with the amount of love that I
got from the Eston supporters and community and you know
people at the footy club, whether it was the CEO
(51:56):
of z Ab Campbell and a lot of the guys
I played with I hadn't heard from from a long time,
was overwhelming. They couldn't have been happier for me. So
I made a lot of friends at that football club
and friends to this day. And guys you don't hear
from as much, but to hear from people that you
you know, you played with, even it was two games,
whether it was fifty games, whatever, it was it was
(52:19):
the support was there and yeah it was as very nice?
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Was it doing it for them as much? Just as
anything as well?
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Yeah, I didn't know that I was.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
I mean, if I thought about it, I knew that
I was the only one that was going to play
in a Grand final out of especially the thirty four
and apart from Fletch, he played a couple of grand finals.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
He was about fifty.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Yeah beforehand, but afterwards yeah, and I got a lot
of messages about that and then rooting for me, and
it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
The first quiet moment that you had to yourself after
winning the flag. I imagine that was a few loud moments,
but the first quiet moment that you had to yourself,
did you reflect on it all? Or have you had
a moment where you've reflect did on everything?
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I know it was a really emotional one after the
prelim for me, like to get through to the Grand Final.
I rang my wife and cried and I knew I
didn't have to play the next week, and obviously the
former in I thought we were going to win. And
but after the ground, for after the wine, there wasn't
many quiet moments. There's always someone there and it was
(53:22):
a big few days, but I have had time to
reflect and it still just doesn't seem really in a way,
like it's it's so surreal the fact that something that
I've strived to do from when I was five years
old and all these things that happened along the way,
and to be able to achieve what I've achieved when
I would have been happy with just one game at
AFL level, I'll pinched myself and yeah, it's I mean,
(53:46):
I'm sure when I'm done, I'll when I'm done with
my footy, I'll I hopefully I have more. But I'm regardless,
I'm super proud of what I've been able to do
and under the circumstances that I've been that have been
throwing my way.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
As well, you should be proud. You've been through a
heck of a lot, Like it's an insane story what
you've shared over the last hour. You should be really
proud of everything you've overcome and what you've achieved on
top of it.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Thanks, it's been it's been good, and like I wouldn't
change anything for the world. Obviously, I wish my brother
was here, but certain things happened for a reason, and
this is my story. There's so many different stories out
there of hardship and this is just mine. You know,
(54:32):
it's my story. I'm glad I can share it. Yeah,
I'm just super happy with how my life has turned out,
and the football club has had so much to do
with it. Both football clubs have changed me into a
grab from Frankston to hopefully a nice man that lives
in Caulfield now.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
So I thought it was more down morning to wait.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
It sells the story better.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Do you think you're a better person all?
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Definitely. It's you surround yourself with people you know. And
in my first few years I was a bit rough
around the edges, and anyone from Essen will tell you
it's crazy to think what I've been able to achieve.
And the person I am now is a totally different
person than what I was when I walked through the door.
(55:25):
I surrounded myself with good characters. Michael Hurley, Joe Watson
was a really close friend of mine, Cale Hooker, Tom
Bell Chambers. Those guys really nurtured me and nursed me
into a decent young man, I guess, and rather than
a kid that could have thrown his career away really
quickly and I'm definitely a better person now for the
(55:46):
people that I've met and being in the industry, I mean,
and I've met something nice people along the way that
have helped me out with that.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
I really appreciate the last hour. Thank you for everything
that you've shared, and congratulations on winning the flag as well.
Huge well done on that one. But thanks for being
so open and honest, because I know a lot of
people listen and they're going through their own grief or
their own difficulties, and I know because they've shared it
with me that it helps them to hear stories like yours.
(56:13):
So I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
It's a pleasure and hopefully you're right, And if this
helps anyone in any way, then I'm glad I did
it anyway, but it just makes it more worth while.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Thanks Mane Tears Soon Time. Thanks for listening to this
episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If you're new to the podcast,
go back and check out the previous two seasons. If
this chat was triggering for you, please know there is
help out there beyond blue dot org, dot au or
(56:43):
Lifeline one three, double one one four A just a
couple of places you can go. A new episode will
drop next week if you'd like to get in touch
at ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram or at narrowly underscore
Meadows on Twitter. Thanks for listen us a Rica from you,
right Ala Bada. Tell me that you want to be.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Just not me, That you want to me.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Because I'm Competraey the fire with food.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
Send me that you want a big
Ordinarily Speaking, a premiership means the world. Given everything that
I've been through and overcome, it means so much.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
More tax on time. Hello and welcome to season three
of Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates resilience in sport.
(00:34):
I'm Narrowly Meadows. We kick off the season with a
man who has overcome public scrutiny and personal tragedy to
eventually achieve his ultimate sporting dream and AFL premiership, a
premiership fifty seven years in the making, no less. Michael
Hibbard was one of the band thirty four at Essendon.
The players endured the impacts of the supplement saga for years,
(00:57):
rocking their trust in people and love for the game. Ultimately,
Michael made the call to leave the club and move
to the Melbourne Demons. That professional turmoil was followed by
personal tragedy. In April twenty twenty, Michael's older brother Jeff
was lost at sea. He went out fishing one morning
and never returned. In September last year, when the final
(01:20):
siren rang on the AFL Grand Final, Michael's first thoughts
were with his big brother. He did it for him,
for his family, and in part for the band thirty four.
This is a story of incredible resilience motivated by the
love of family. We caught up in Michael's home in Melbourne.
I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much
(01:51):
for joining me, Michael, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
That's a pleasure. Good.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's good. Your story is one of just incredible resilience.
Were you always that way or is it something that
you've learned throughout life.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I guess growing up by older brothers and my dad
was pretty strong, staunch character. Yeah, so I guess over
the years you're just you're toughen up with an older
brother and a dad like that.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Guess the upbringing where else from you having an older
brother with older mates and you end up hanging out
with them and they toughen you up a little bit.
But being resilient, I guess yeah. I think you just
you find yourself in situations and you never know how
you're going to handle them until they're in front of you,
And I guess being resilient. I think I am a
resilient character. Hopefully people see that.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It sounds like you've got a few stories from your childhood.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
By that description, Yeah, yeah, plenty of stories.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Obviously, there are two older brothers. One that lives in
Darwen is my half brother. Yeah, we speak on the
phone regularly every day, and we've got many stories together.
And Jeff even dad, like his dad was a footy
player down home, and apparently he's pretty.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Rough and tumble, and you know.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I used to play local footy and everyone used to
tell me about how he was a good player, but
he was a bit of a thug.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
So you hate me saying that, but yeah, I guess.
You know, you have no choice.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
When that's the perception of your family. You want to
kind of live up and make them proud. And I guess, yeah,
that's kind of how I've been.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You've said all of that with a smile on your face. Laugh.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It makes me laugh thinking of just mu childhood and
some of the stuff we used to get up to,
and yeah, just the mischief and and all.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, did you get into trouble.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Trouble found me. I feel like trouble we used to
find me quite.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Regularly, and over the years I've been able to divert
my life in a direction where I'm Trouble doesn't find
me as much anymore.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Well, I like to think that anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Is it where are you from Frankston?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Some of it was were at the town suburb I
grew up in, which is probably ten minutes out of Frankston,
ten minutes out of Mornington. So when people say from Frankston,
I always liked via towards Mornington, so it seems a
bit nicer. But because I played VFL at Frankston, so
I got drafted from.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, the stigma is I'm a Frankston boy, but yeah,
you know I wear it. That's fine. I am.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I guess at Frankston boy. I'm from down that area
and can be a bit rough growing up down there.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Once again said with a smile on your face, I
love it. I wanted to start by asking you about
everything that went down at Essendon. It was such a
big story from the outside looking in. What was it
like living through that as one of the thirty four?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean there's so much to It's that was
a fair while ago. I was in my second year,
you know when Saga started. I think it ended twenty twelve, thirteen,
and you know, I was pretty young, and it was
it was big news, and I'm at one of the
biggest clubs in the land, and you know, this is
on front and back news, you know, nearly every day
(05:03):
for a long time, so it was how you couldn't
escape it. It was, you know, sometimes quite emotional, but
you know, the best thing was on the weekends when
you could just go out and play and try and
put it behind you.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
But it was hard.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It was hard for everyone at different levels. Definitely had
my moments, but it was hard on me because you've
felt embarrassed to even go to family functions or or
even out in public because it was the first thing
people that'd ask you. And you know, over the course
of time, it's become a bit easier and I can
talk about it pretty openly now, so it's fine now
I feel like i'ved up with it pretty well. But
(05:39):
at the time and over five year span, it definitely
wore people down, and I was one of those as well.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
It must have been hard. When you say you were
only in your second year, I mean, of course you were,
but it shocks me to think back that that was happening.
Then that's a really hard thing to know what to
do as a young player, I would imagine.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, definitely, still I'm still bullish on players were in
no fault or no wrong I think as a second
year player, it's like, you know, someone runs.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Out of water bottle.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You expect there's water in that bottle, and at the time,
you know, I think the leadership group did a enough
to make sure nothing there was no wrongdoing or anything
bad was getting thrown into us, and we were definitely
told that there was nothing. And you know it, as
a first second year player, you're kind of just doing
(06:33):
what you're told. You're trying to make your name for
yourself and make sure you're you know, you're fitting in
with the team. And yeah, at the time, you're just
trying to you just fall on the pack. I guess
I wasn't. I was only twenty one or twenty two.
So yeah, it was hard to know what to do
and what was right and what was wrong. But I
guess hindsight it's a lovely thing and if we had
(06:54):
that then things would be different, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Did you at any point worry, like, did you to
worry about what you've done and your role in it?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Not personally, I think because there's so many other older
guys that were you know, job was the face of
it really and a.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Lot of the leadership.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was just kind of just in the group that
was just hanging on and wondering what was going on.
And it was a bit of that, like a bit
of anxiety and you know, what's going to happen to us?
You know, we're playing I think we got kicked out
of the finals one year, and you know, just like
there's so much talk around in the media of what
was going to happen, and then we were told certain
things were going to happen, you know, and we did know,
(07:33):
and ever knew. It was just this unknown and that
put a stress on your day to day life. Was
it was just a constant talking point at the club
and the people around you. So it made it made
go on to training hard at times because that was
rather than focus on getting better and training hard and
wanted to play well.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
That was always in the back of your mind.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So I mean, you know, we had we had each
other to lean on, but it was definitely hard, that's
for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Does it stay with you when you go home as well.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, definitely, it's on the news, it's you talk about it,
you know, and we're having so many meetings. We used
to call them crisis meetings. The AFLPA would come in,
or a STATA would come in, or lawyers would come
in and talk to us. You know, this is a
bit later, not so early, twenty fourteen fifteen kind of times,
(08:24):
Like you have a lot of these meetings that are
happening regularly, and then it's hard not to go home
and talk to your partner about it or your family
of bringing up and wondering what's going on. You know,
a lot of the younger kids, a lot of their
families were I really wanted to know what was what
was happening there to their children. And that's fair enough.
(08:45):
I'm sure I'd be the same if I was in
there boat. So I did go home with us.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Did it take a toll on you that time?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
It did.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I think as I said, like just little things like
family stuff, birthdays. Would probably turn down a few of
them right at the peak of when it was really
big news and you know, when the points got taken
away from us, or you know, certain times where it
was big news in the media. There was definitely times
where I'd turn down certain social events just because I
(09:15):
couldn't be bothered with the questions and all the talk
around it and if someone asked me a question, I'm
applied enough to try answer it, but I'll try avoid
the question altogether. So I did that a little bit,
and that definitely took a toll. And obviously the year
where we did get banned in twenty sixteen, it was
a pretty low moment for me and all of us really, like, yeah,
(09:38):
it was hard to especially I thought probably that was
a time where twenty six is nearly your prime. I
was playing some good footy at the time, and I thought,
you know, I'd make the next sleep and then to
be a year to be taken out and not knowing
how you will come back. The anxiety around that, yeah,
definitely stressed me out and a.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Lot of other What was that like when you first
heard about that band? What was that moment?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Like, we're all in a hotel in Saint Kilda. It
might have been an overtell or something like that, And
I kind of remember a conversation someone said, you know,
there was about four days of this hearing and we
were getting dripped fed a bit of information and apparently
(10:25):
one day we're up by four goals. It was the
talk that was going so we put it to footy
talk analogy, were up by four goals and then apparently
at three quarter time we were down by ten, so
we were like, yeah, so that was hard. And then
when the verdict came in, you know, been in a
room of your teammates, there would have been I'm not
(10:45):
sure all the thirty four were at least twenty to
twenty five of us seeing you know, guys you look
up to grown men cry knowing that you know you've
been taken out for a year of footy agame you
love and doing things together, and we've been through so
much together. We firstly we got off and then the
(11:06):
appeal went against us, so.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
That was hard.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That was a very emotional day, just as I said,
seeing your mates cry and and your leaders cry and
not knowing what's next, not knowing what to do, and
not knowing what will happen or how long exactly at
the time was pretty tough. But yeah, we pretty much
just went out and got on the piss and tried
(11:33):
to enjoy each other's company and we'd see what happened next.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Was there a moment where it hit you personally?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I think the first that day was more shock. I
think the weeks after that it hit me pretty hard
when you know, I didn't have the routine of footy anymore.
We weren't allowed to go into the club. And I've
never had a year year off of footy ever, and
I'm finally living my dream playing AFL, And how can
(12:02):
I come back from this? What will happen to me
after a year off not being in a professional environment.
I'm not the most naturally gifted athlete. I have to
work hard on my endurance and all that. So there
was that playing on in the back of my mind
a lot, and there was different stages, especially over the year,
where yeah, I was really struggling with it. I remember
(12:23):
going away with my wife, which was my partner at
the time, my wife now. We went to Bali a
couple of weeks after, and I had a few too
many beers one day and it kind of popped into
my mind and I was just a mess, crying and
I held it together pretty well until then, and I
think that's when I realized this has probably been weighing
(12:46):
on me for a while, and just unleashed a lot
of a lot of my motion and tears and kind
of glad I got it out. And then it took
a while for me to open up and talk about
that again.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Did you ever get help to talk about it?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I mean the a f L and the a
f L p A are really good with speaking to
people and really pushing players to talk to people. I
think during the whole court process.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
During.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
For the players individual compensation and stuff, we all spoke
to a psych and they gave us a a rating
of how well or how badly you've been coping with it,
and guys at different levels. And you know, I spoke
to someone pretty actively too for a month or two
to make sure I was all good and I was fine.
(13:34):
I was pretty keen to just take time away from footy.
That was I think the best thing for me at
the time. I didn't really think about football. A lot
of the boys might have been well documented that everyone
trained down at I think Saint Bernard's there for a
while is about ten of them, and you would have
been lucky to see me there once. I remember me
(13:55):
and Michael Hurley would just go run the ten, you know,
twice a week to make sure we don't flow out
to one hundred killers and.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
We just enjoyed our.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Break running with the bulls as well.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, I did that. Yeah, that was when we went
to Europe. So's I mean, that's another thing.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
That year.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
I tried to take as many positives out of it
as I could, and I was able to do Europe summer.
I spent a month with the boys, I spent a
month with my partner. After I spent a month with
the boys and their memories. I'll hold forever with those guys,
and I'm sure they'll say the same. We had some
good times and I did some stuff that being an
AFL football you never get the opportunity to do. So
(14:31):
there are positives to take out of it. Obviously, you
don't want to ever miss a year of footing and
one where I thought maybe I was hitting to the
peak of my football prime right in your mid twenties,
mid to late twenties. But I tried to be positive
and thinking of the positives.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Does it rock your trust in people when you go
through something like that, I.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Think subconsciously it has to you do question a lot
of things now. I mean, I'm pretty Joe of your
kind of guy, and even the doctors will give give
me a panadeine now, and we joke, is this panadeine.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Like ed is a joke and we have a laugh
about it.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
But there must be a little bit of, you know,
a lack of trust now that I do have in
people like that. I mean, I do trust the doctors
at the Mobile Football Club, that's for sure now. And
I trusted the doctors at essen and Bruce Reid. He
was like a second father to me, and I don't
think he had any part to play in what happened.
But you know, there are some people out there that
(15:32):
do do some dodgy things, and I think everyone's going
to be careful of that. But you know, I feel
like now I'm in a better spot and a bit older,
a bit wiser.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Do you reflect on it with any anger still?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
My wife actually asked me this this morning when we're
talking about it. And I like to think that it
was so much has happened after that, and it's sliding
doors moment. You know, it was a decision I made
to leave Essenon. I had another year in my contract
at the time, and I thought I was getting a
bit stale and lost a lot of motivation. Couldn't really
(16:07):
see myself walking through those doors every day because of
what was happening. All those meetings we went through all
the sadness, I felt like I needed a fresh start.
So when I left and all the things that have
happened since, I try not to look back with it
with anger because it's really it's been a beneficial thing
for me. As I said, I had a good time
in that year off and going to the Melbourne Football
(16:30):
Club was definitely one of the best things that's happened
to me. So things happen in life, and I feel
like that happened for a reason. I felt that's just
one of them. Wasn't fun at the time, it was
what was going on, but it's created a lot of
good things in my life.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I love that you spoke about your family earlier. How
hard was it on them going through all of this
and seeing someone they love and care about not being
able to be at their best.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, it's fun. It was more, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
My brother was the one that was like, you know,
this is this is bullshit. You know.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I was just like, yeah, I know, we'll get through
it kind of thing. Mum and Dad.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I think they asked questions and they didn't really take
They thought it was fine. You know, I wasn't grown
a third tail or anything. Whatever happened or so as
long as my health was fine, they were fine. And
I think, yeah, they capes with it pretty well. There's
a lot of younger players and their families, you know,
they were a bit more stressful with my family. Were
(17:32):
My family pretty easy going, lars a characters. So I
just was telling him everything was fine, and they dealt
with it pretty well.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
You mentioned your brother. There is that Jeff who's annoyed
on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah. Always, he wears his heart on his sleeve, and
if anything happens to his little brother, who would Yeah,
he'd get pretty dirty. So he was. He was just
pissed off. He couldn't watch me for another year. And
as my family were they you know, and my family
are no different to anyone else's. Our families lived through
(18:06):
us because playing footage gives them so much pride and excitement.
And that was probably the one thing that hurt me
the most, that that was taken away from them, Not
so much me, but taken away from my friends and
family that they can't watch someone they love play, you know,
AFL footage on the MCG in front of big crowds
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It's so interesting that you say that because so many
people say, you know, if you do what you love,
you never work a day in your life. But also
what I've come to learn is if that gets taken
away from you, everything you love gets taken away from
you at the same time, and then you have this
resentment towards the thing that you love as well. Is
that kind of how you felt? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Spot on.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I mean it's never been articulated a lot of that
to me, and but it is. It's so true. You
do love playing footy Like I've lived my life to
get to where I was or where I am, and
it got taken away. And there was times where I
love footy. I didn't watch footy that whole year, you know,
I just couldn't watch the finals. I couldn't didn't watch
(19:04):
many games. I wasn't allowed to go to any games,
and yeah, I wasn't really too interested either. So yeah,
it's it's pretty spot on.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Your lovely wife bringing us a word.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Thank you so much. That's sparkling water.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Want to thank you. It's nice bag, by the way,
that's cute. Did you ever think about walking away for good?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
No, not during that time. No, it was in my
MIAs of what else am I going to do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I was allowed to footy, and I still felt like
I had a lot to give, but there was you know,
I had a I had a pretty badly nagging knee
injury at the time. Tender artists where a few of them.
You ask a few of the boys, all of them
will tell you it's an absolute miracle how I got
back to play. I could across the road without hobbling.
I kept that pretty quiet from Melbourne, yeah, because I
(20:07):
wasn't training much, and when I did train, I couldn't run.
I could only run maybe a couple of hundred meters
before I'd have to stop. And that stressed me out
because I was like, you know, how much worse is
this going to get? Is it ever going to get better?
You have these things in your mind that constantly play out,
And luckily for me, you know, I held that away
(20:28):
from Melbourne and ended up getting a four year deal
there and it ended up getting pretty It ended up
being It took a while, took a few months. I
didn't do much of the preseason that year I was there.
But yeah, I'm lucky it got better. But I never
looked I never wanted to walk away from it. I
love footy too much. I love the camaraderie, I love
the locker room, you know. I love how proud it
(20:50):
makes my family and my friends. So it wasn't really
I wasn't really a thought.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
If somebody is listening who feels like they've been wronged,
you know, you talk about the trust and all those
sort of things, what would be the greatest advice that
you would give to them of how you got through
that people, because it was years that you had to
endure this.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I think for me what helped was just having
people around, having my teammates to rely on, talk to
lean on, you know, because there was some hard times
and I'm usually one to try to battle some of
my emotions on my own, which over the years I've
learned the wrong way to go about it. And whether
(21:31):
it's my wife, whether it's my mates, and I'm lucky
I've got so many good teammates and had so many
good teammates that esther than that I could rely on
and talk to and who were going through the same thing.
That really helped me get through that. And obviously anyone
hopefully everyone's got a family out there that they can
talk to and get through hard times.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Together with just on that in twenty seventeen, when you
guys all come back and you're playing and three of you, Patty, Ryder,
Michael Early best mate and you win all Australian honors.
You smile when I bring it up again, you put
into words what that meant.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
It gives me chills, to be honest, and like, I
nearly get emotional thinking about it, because I went from
thinking I wasn't going to play and missing here and footy,
and yeah, it was one of my prouder moments. Obviously,
we run the flag this year and I've had a
daughter this year, and all these good moments have happened
in my life. But that's it's right up there. It's
(22:30):
especially do it with Heurls and Patty and we've been
through so much together.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
It was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
What is it that makes you emotional? Is the matship
of it?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And you know, a lot of hard work, a lot
of doubt and a lot of proven a lot of
people wrong making a move from a club. You know,
I loved all the people there and a lot of
people didn't want me to leave, and I kind of
went against a lot of the people that I cared
about my family, to be honest, wanted me to stay
at Essendon and I made a choice. It was a
(23:03):
hard one at the time, and in that moment, even
my first game back, you know, just it's a lot
of emotion and then you know it's win Australian and
when I hadn't I hadn't had one before, and I
was just very proud and it made it all worth
it in a way.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I can't imagine you're somebody that loves wearing a jacket
like that, but that would have been pretty special putting
on that kind of jacket in that kind of moment.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, it's it stays.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
It's probably got dust in there in their wardrobe somewhere,
and every now and then I'll play play a prank
on ant and just walk out of the shaw walk
out of the bathroom with it on. But if she's
got the ships to me and I'll try and make
her laugh and now I can put the medal on
with it. So nah, but yeah, it's I mean, it's there.
(23:56):
It's something I'll it's something I'm very proud of, especially
considering everything we went through, and especially do it with
Heurls and Patty Hers especially one of my best mates,
and we were the ones that just trained together that
whole lot, that whole year off, So it made it
even more sweet, Like we've got a lot of crucism
for not doing the football program during that year off,
(24:19):
and it was a nice, a nice feeling to do
that and stand up.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
There with him.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
You've mentioned your brother Jeff a couple of times. Tell
me a little bit about him and what he was
like as a mate and a brother.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, he's a jovial, frankster. Trouble found him more than
it found me. Growing up. He was everyone's friend. He'd
give his shirt off his back for anyone he'd met.
You know, he got along with all my friends, both
footy clubs, all the friends that grew up with, and
he used to getting a lot of mischief, but there
(24:52):
wouldn't be many people that say too many bad words
about him. There's so many stories like probably can't say
on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Just give us one of them.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I probably shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I was talking to Stephen May yesterday and I told
him a story about Jeff, and he goes every time
we talk about him. There's another story that I haven't
heard before. But he was just you know, he did
do anything, whether it was right or wrong, to try
and make people laugh. And that was sometimes hard because
(25:25):
he put you in a spot of bother where you
could get in trouble at times, but you wouldn't have
him any other way. He made He constantly made people laugh.
So and he was a good guy.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do you have any nicknames for each other or that to.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Call him the nomad? He's just lived the life of
a nomad. You know.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
He would find a way to only work two days
a week but have enough money to live the life
he wanted. And you know, maybe in mum's house and
maybe the mate's house.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He never knew what he was going to do.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And like he's just yeah, he lives, lived the party.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
He lived a good lifestyle, and yeah he had he
had a good fun life, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
What kind of relationship did you guys have together and
what did your footy career mean to him?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean, I think back just when we're kids, and
it was always footy footy. We'd kick the footy out
the front and he'd stand out the front of one
light post, I'd stand out in front of the other
and would kick the footy for hours just trying to
count how many times we'd hit the light posts. And
he's three and a half years older than me, and
I had the opportunity of playing with him several times.
(26:29):
And I remember I was I think I was fourteen.
Maybe I was playing seniors for our local senior team.
Mum and dad had to give the club permission to
let me play beausel was so young. Dads, we find
jeffs with him, kind of think Jeff's only eighteen at
the time.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And I think I got bumped. Me and my brother
used to fight a lot, you.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Know, like gett into physical wrestles and every now and
then a punch should be thrown. But that's just how
we were, you know. We loved each other, but we
used to argue, bicker and fight andmember. On this day,
I got bumped. I was fourteen, and I would have
like bumped me in Jeff run from the other side
of the wing to try to floor this guy.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And I remember we're on the ring.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I was wrestling with Jeff because I didn't want him
to stick up for me. Yeah, so I was like,
can look after myself on fourteen, you know, like I'm
playing seniors and like the next, everyone's like, what's going
on here? The two brothers are on the same team
of fighting. So yeah, but like how much my foot
he meant to him? Yeah, I mean he loved it.
(27:28):
Even when I thought I wasn't going to get drafted,
I missed a few drafts, he was always the one
that cheering me on, saying, mate, you get drafted, like
you're too good, not too And when I was doubting myself,
he was. He was always the one there to make
sure I believed in myself. And you know, I got drafted.
He was probably as proud as I was.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So what did you think about the fact that you
became this footy star.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, I think he thought he was a star. I
think as well.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, but you know, he was at every game, the
beer in hand and probably cheering as loud as anyone.
But I just know how proud he was and how
much he loved it. And yeah, I mean that's what
I was saying before about the people that you play
footy for, and he was definitely one of them. And
I run out now. I think last year I wore
(28:17):
an armband every game last year, and you know, I
just thinking about him every day.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
So he's he's a special man and he means a
lot to me.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Michael Hibbard April twenty twenty.
Tell me about that day and when you first heard
that he'd gone missing.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I remember my part of my wife's family have a
beach house down and Dremana and Jeff went missing off Flinders,
which is only fifteen minute drive away on the other
side of the on the other side of the bay.
And he's a keen fisherman. I think he he had
a few beers with his mates and went out pretty early.
But I remember being down there that morning and we
(29:08):
were about to leave head back up to the city
and the wings were that bad that I didn't even
want to take out the bins. I didn't ever want
to go outside. We even postponed out drives just because
we didn't want to go through that weather. And then
I'll get a phone and get back home and I've
jumped in bed. I would have been maybe eleven o'clock
at night. Ten o'clock at night. My little sister rings
(29:30):
me and she's like, oh, I've heard from Jeff. I said, no,
what's going on. I don't want to alarm you. You know,
he's no one's heard from him all day, and his
car and his trailer at the Flinders Peer. His boat's
not here, and you know, no one's heard from him.
And I'm not Flinder's piers surely didn't go at fishing today.
He only had a three meter dinghy or something. And
(29:52):
she's like, no, no, there's helicopters and stuff looking. I'm like,
this is serious, and I knew them and there, but yeah,
he wasn't so he wasn't coming back. And but my
family didn't. They still and Jeff's gone missing several times,
(30:13):
like you know, for days where he's with his mates
and he might break his phone or something. But yeah,
I knew then and there I've been out fishing several
times that he was gone, and because just because of
the weather and how bad it was, and it was
pretty hard to My sister was so calm on the phone.
I don't think she understood the severity of it at
the time. And yeah, it was hard to try and
(30:39):
navigate a little bit of the hopes that we all
were having. But knowing that the hope was so slim
for me, but it was so high for my family
at the time, and yeah, it was. It was a
tough night and I'm not sure how I slept, but
I woke up at about I would have got a
couple of hours sleep and I drove straight down there
to the pier. The next day, I spoke to the
(31:01):
police and made sure I was the first point of
call because my mum and dad couldn't really handle what
was going on at the time.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
And yeah, it was. It was pretty hard.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I think as soon as the phone call ended from
my sister that night, I broke down at the end
of the bed. It's probably a moment my wife probably
scarred by more than me. Yeah, because I knew. I
knew straight away, but my family didn't. That was probably
the hard thing.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
How do you get through a moment like that?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I think I think I was.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I went into just the care take a role for
my family, to be honest, and that helped distract me
from probably the emotions that I was going through. And then,
you know, just trying to to be strong as strong
as I could. I'd take my moments to cry on
the shower rather than show not It's not weakness to cry,
(31:55):
but I knew it would flare up my family, and
I didn't want to see them upset, So yeah, I
take time to myself to to let out a cry.
And I was very lucky, you know, my wife was
with me the whole time, and my mates like EURLs
and a lot of the boys I played footy with,
Jake Malsham, Alex Brown, Tom Bell Chambers, guys that I've
(32:19):
spent a lot of time playing foota with. They drove
straight down to Jermana to be with me. And I'm
very lucky that I've got friends and a wife that
were able to support me during that tough, tough period.
We're on the COVID break at the time before the
round two. I don't know if you're sure you remember,
but so it was hard, you know, like we weren't
(32:42):
supposed to have more than two people in the house
and we had about twelve. You know, we broke all
COVID laws and I think the police understood that.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
So it was hard.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It was still it's still still pretty raw, and still
get a little bit emotional when I talk about it now.
But I'm very lucky that I have the people in
my life that were able to support me and help
me get through it. But definitely supporting my family and
trying knowing that I needed to be a rock for
them was a good distraction for me.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Were you getting looked after as well? Though?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I think, yeah, I spoke to I spoke to people
about it. I made sure I set up day if
I were really good. They gave people just for my
my niece. My brother had an eight year old or
seven at the time, seven year old at the time.
They made sure that they organized for her, you know,
(33:36):
Jeff's ex partner, to talk to people, my mom, my dad,
and my sister, and I made sure that was happening
on a regular basis, because you know, who knows how
bad things can get in your mind when something like
that happens.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
As we were all new.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
To it and I was doing the same, I was
pretty active on speaking to the PYC at the club
about how I was feeling and more about how to
navigate my family because that was what I was worried about.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
The most, and also just always rely on my mates.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
So I was sitting there talk to them about it
and yeah, have a cry and have a beer, and
I felt like that was the best way for me
and yeah, to not distract myself from what happened, but
to I mean talk it out and kind of just
just try to get through every day, to be honest,
every day, he just I just wanted every day to
(34:29):
just keep ticking along and hopefully you'd get easier. And
it gets easier, but it's still hard.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yeah, after that initial twenty four hours, what transpires from
there because he was never found, right, yeah, it was, I.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Mean, he was never found.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Twenty four hours later, you know, you know, we're hoping
that you know, he's lost his phone in this is
a slim hope that my family had.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
He's lost his phone, he had a life.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Jacket on and he's at least swept to a shore
and he just his phone doesn't work and he's a
long walk from a house or something, and we're just
waiting for a phone call.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
That was kind of the hope that where that everyone had.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
As I said, in my mind, I knew that was
a long shot, but that was my family's hope. And
you know, I think, yeah, just twenty four hours later,
there's the boat. The boat that Jeff was in was
found a pyramid rock which on Philip Poland smashed up
against rocks and there was no sign of the two boys.
Jason was the other guy that was with. He was
(35:37):
a twenty one year old kid and my brother was
thirty four, and they wanted to go squidding and obviously
picked the wrong day to do it. And yeah, that
was that was pretty hard. And there was always this thought,
not knowing too much about the water, that if he
had a life jacket, maybe he would just float out
and eventually they'll find him. But we were told that
(35:59):
he had about fifteen and it's to live in that
in the water, so we knew once they went overboard.
Well I didn't know at the time, but once I
was told that once he was overboard, you know, he
would have he would have hypothermia and died pretty quickly.
So yeah, it's been pretty hard, you know, not having
a body, not having not been able to have a funeral,
(36:20):
all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I mean once
they found the boat, that was just another another piece
that was hard to It became a lot more real.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Has your family been able to grieve him?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
And no. I mean, you know, mum, it's pretty active
on Facebook and nearly and it's it's hard. I nearly
really nearly need to mute my mum. Sometimes because you know,
there's always a post about my brother and it can
trigger me sometimes, and you know, I think about him
every day, but sometimes seeing baby photos of us together
or you know, birthdays, Christmases and stuff, it's it's you know,
(36:57):
it does bring out that raw emotion still to this day.
It has been eighteen months now, so I mean, to grieve, have.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
A funeral, we weren't able to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Only actually got the death certificate about three weeks ago.
So yeah, I'm reading that and reading the transcripts of
what transpired before that, which you know, as I said,
I was the first point of call to the police
and they sent all that to me before my family,
and I still can't.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Show on that.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I can't let them read any of that stuff because
I'm fearful of how it's going to make them feel,
and I don't think they want to read it anyway.
But yeah, we hope. We still haven't had a funeral.
We try we organize a memorial. They threw us in
the lockdown, so it was about two days before we
were planning to have a big memorial and then we
couldn't have one. So I mean, we've had little family
(37:49):
gatherings for him, but nothing where friends and family, aunties,
uncles have been able to sit there and tell the
story of Jeff. We haven't been able to do that,
and I think we're going to try to do it
at the two year, at the two year point of
he's missing.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
So I mean, that'd been nice to do. After that
is the raw emotion to be there, and hopefully it's
just a celebration.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, how did it feel when you're holding the death
certificate in your hand?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
After that, it's on my email, so I don't actually
have a physical certificate, but I mean I got something
a few months back saying he'd nearly been concluded. And
I've read all the transcripts, and you know, they have
videos that were happening, you know, ten minutes, an hour,
two hours before, messages, phone calls who we'd spoke to,
(38:38):
and even snapchat videos that they'd saved, and you know,
and sometimes some of the stuff was to them talking
about going fishing and oh but the weather's a bit
bargain like. Reading those things made it feel so like
I felt like I was there, and that was pretty hard,
you know, and then actually getting the desertificate and not
(38:58):
being able to actually have a school funeral until you
so you kind of have have one of those. Is
is hard because you know he's not here. That's that's
been pretty hard for my family, more so my family
than me. I mean, I've had so many distractions along
the way that have been able to Like football was
just a blessing. Being able to just go out and
(39:19):
train and have people around me constantly helped helped me
get through a tough year and a half, whereas my
parents were in lockdown at home on their owns, with
their own feelings, and.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That was hard.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, And I guess the hardest part was only a
few weeks a month or whatever after he passed, I'll
get shipped off to a hub in Queensland. I can't
even be there to support my family. Yeah, that was
that was hard in itself.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
So yeah, how tough was that for you? To get
through the hub and the complications and compounding nature of COVID.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, it was early. It was really hard.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
And I'm still fascinated by the water now still, Like
I remember, I were in Manly only I'm not sure
how long ago Jefford passed. It would only been a
month or two and we went to Manly for her
first hub and as the surf of a decade or
something that was out there, and I just felt like
jumping out in the water and you're trying to experience
maybe what he was feeling just before, you know, the
(40:21):
lack of control you have in the water. And I'm
still fascinated by that. I mean, I don't go far
enough to where I'm going to drown or anything like that,
but I think some people will steer away from the water,
and I'm kind of gravitating to it because of what's happened. Yeah,
I mean it was hard just being away from my
family and hearing how emotional everyone was and not being
(40:42):
able to be physically there to cuddle my sister and
my mom and my dad, and you know, it was
really hard. But one thing it has done, you know,
we tell each other we love it. I love each
other on the phone more more than ever, and when
we catch up, I make sure you know I do
show that a bit more when it probably when it
(41:03):
takes something like this to happen to your family to
realize how much you do love these people and you
don't show it or tell people enough.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Getting in the water, is it? Is it wanting a
closeness to him, or is it wanting an understanding of
what happened or what.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I think it was more of an understanding of what
happened and just knowing how how and he had such
like so limited control of what's going on out there,
And you.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Know, I do I do.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I go down to the Flinder's Pier to talk to him.
I've done that a few times, you know, on Christmas,
on his birthdays, and so I do. I do feel
like I am closer to him when I'm in the water.
So I don't know where he is, but I know
he's out there somewhere kind of thing. So that's something
that you know, I don't have a I don't have
(41:54):
the cemetery to go to. I just go to I'll
go down to Flinders Pier. But yeah, definitely, initially the
fascination with the water was to understand maybe what what
what he was feeling just before he died.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
What do you say to him when you visit him?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
That's yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I've got a nine month old daughter, and I knew
he was really excited for us to have kids, and
I was to talk to him about her, to be honest, Sorry, yeah,
I was telling him about her and and how much
I miss him.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Okay, yeah I could.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Sorry, I don't apologize.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's sorry. That's a that's a hard
one for me to talk about my daughter. And she'll
never get to know uncle Jeff. And it's a picture
of him in the him presenting me my first album, Jumper,
and there's a photo of it in the landrum and
I get her there every morning, I say good morning.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
To uncle Jeff.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
So she starts pointing at now. It's quite funny, but yeah,
it's it's very sad.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
You want her to know exactly who he was and
who is to you?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, So yeah, the morning rituals I love money, wine,
fridge and I say salo to Salo to the fridge,
and make sure you salo to uncle Jeff.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
And yeah, she will, you know, it is. It is very.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Sad, and it's emotional for me that she will. She
won't physically know her uncle Jeff, but she'll definitely she'll
know who he was, and I'll make.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Sure of that.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And I don't think people are ever are ever dead
until you stop talking about them. And I never stopped
talking about Jeff. I'll tell him to tell stories. Every
every time I get on the beers with my mates,
and you know, we're family functions and we all still
talk about him. So in my mind, he's still here
because we've still got so many memories and so many
(44:09):
good times and so many things to laugh about. So
he's still here in Mars, and every now and then
I find myself talking to him. Before the Grand Final,
I said, if you're going to do anything for me,
just make sure you make sure you make us win,
because you know Yomi enough.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
And yeah, he did that, so that's nice.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
His daughter as well. How much of an active role
do you play in her life?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, COVID over the last six months has been hard,
But initially my wife and I would get her a
couple of days a week to make sure, you know,
she knew.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
She had people, had people that loved.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Her and that would take care of her if anything,
if anything ever happened. And obviously the worst happened with Jeff,
but we were, you know, because they were in Dramaa
at the time, and we've got the beach house down
in Dremana, so we we we'd go down there and
spend a fair bit of time with her. And and
prior to Jeff passing, I didn't have a massive relationship
(45:14):
with with Indy, my niece. We'd speak on the phone
a little bit, and when I was with Jeff, i'd
see her, but i'd never get time just us and
and we Anthony and I really took that on for
for for a for a few months. We'd get her
a couple of days a week and and make sure
that you know, I was just trying to do fun
(45:35):
things with her. And you know, she still doesn't talk
about him too much. It's but she doesn't like bringing
it up. She's she's a strange one. She's that's a sink.
It makes us sad, so she doesn't not talking about it.
But we try to make sure that there's never going
to get to a point where she forgets him, and
I don't think she ever will. But yeah, it is hard,
(45:57):
especially as I said during COVID, not to be able
to support her as much as I would have liked.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
It was definitely hard, and I just I just knew
that's what Jeff would have wanted, for us to go
down there and really make sure.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
She was okay. And I felt like I played my
role on that and still do to this day.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
What does a footy club mean when you're going through
something like that.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's I mean, I'm very lucky that I am in
the industry. I mean, because I'm not sure I could
have it made it a lot easier. I'm not sure
I could have done it without them. Everyone throws their
arms around you. You know, footy club is a loving
place with a lot of everyone gets along really well.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
And to go.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Into a footy club and them know and what happened
and to help me in whatever way they can, whether
it's just a hug or you ask him if I'm okay,
taken me out for a beer, and you know, and
then it's good. Like I can share these stories about
Jeff and that makes me feel better. But I'm very
fortunate that, in probably the worst tragedy I've had in
(47:07):
my life, that I'm at a football club right behind
me and a good family and friends.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
So you get to twenty twenty one and you've had
all sorts of injuries and issues, but you find yourself
back in the team and they make it through to
a Grand final and you find yourself in that team
that day. Given everything you've spoken about in the last
hour Essendon, going through everything with your brother and how
(47:35):
much he loved your footy career. What did that day
mean to you?
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, it was very special. You know, it just didn't
seem real. You know, all these things, all these sliding
to all moments, all the things that happen. It seems
obviously not the jefferal thing was worth it, but everything
that I've been through just you know, it was justified.
And knowing I was talking to Jeff before the game
(48:05):
the night before, I think even a couple of lots
Steven May even said he even send him a prayers
and make sure we win. And you know it is
it's very it's very nice, and it's just an unbelievable
feeling and it still is now thinking about everything that's
happened and to be able to live out the lifelong
(48:27):
dream of winning a premiership with the team, it's what
everyone strives to do. And knowing that I've been through
a fair bit and gotten out the other side, he
was gratifying, and the competitor in me like, I'm very
proud of what I've done, and the competitor in me
this is like, Okay, now I want to do it.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Again.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
I want that feeling again. But I just knew Jeff
would be so proud, and I knew my family were proud,
and I know that you know they were thinking of
him when you know they they were like, he got
you back in the team. You know, at the end
of the year, they're saying all these things. You know,
he had, he had something to play and that. I'm like, well,
I thought I had something to do with it as well. Yeah,
(49:10):
I've been training my ass off heres.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah. Well, you know, timing is everything.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I was very you know, even though I played most
of the year, and timing was everything for me to
fall into that team in the prelim week and per
form my role on prelim day and then and then
on the grand final day on the big stage, and
to have a metal around my neck and to celebrate
with my family even though they weren't there physically, or
(49:38):
my brother was from darn. Actually I ran him, ran him,
I ran the cup over to him. He got't after
you saw that footage, but he Yeah, that was that
was really nice and makes it all worth it.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Did you you said you right on your wristband?
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Did you say, yeah, yeah, I wore in two thousand
and twenty, I wore an armband all year. I didn't
do that this year. The part, the part of me
needs to, you know, not ever forget Jeff. I talked
to him every day. I think of him every day.
But I thought that's you know, that was last year
and this year's a new year. And the Grand Final
(50:14):
day was obviously a really special one for me where
I knew he was going to be with me. Yeah,
I just wrote g H and no Mad on my wristband,
so I gave it a kiss before the game, gave
it a kiss afterwards, and I didn't I didn't take
it off till about Thursday. I don't think same as
(50:35):
my medal, I or that for a week straight. And
I left my Uncle tape on for about four days,
and I left the Risk tape on for about seven.
So I'm just yeah, it was, Yeah, he was with
me for sure.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Did you feel at any moment during that game that
it was.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
I mean, it was like I was in the second half,
I kind of just had front row seats to the
greatest on slaught ever and yeah, in the in the
ground final, but as soon as the sign went it
was hard not to think of him. Straight away how
much he meant to my footy career and how much
my footy career meant to him. And you know, if
(51:16):
if there are if he is up there watching and
he was watching that game, for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah he would have been pretty damn parad I reckon.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, I think he would have been. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
After the Grand Final? Did you get any messages from
the Bombers.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Boys several before and after?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
That's pretty cool?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so many and and Esson supporters, a
lot of COG groups at Estenon, and I used to
make friends with a lot of those people. Spent a
lot of time with the amount of love that I
got from the Eston supporters and community and you know
people at the footy club, whether it was the CEO
(51:56):
of z Ab Campbell and a lot of the guys
I played with I hadn't heard from from a long time,
was overwhelming. They couldn't have been happier for me. So
I made a lot of friends at that football club
and friends to this day. And guys you don't hear
from as much, but to hear from people that you
you know, you played with, even it was two games,
whether it was fifty games, whatever, it was it was
(52:19):
the support was there and yeah it was as very nice?
Speaker 2 (52:22):
Was it doing it for them as much? Just as
anything as well?
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Yeah, I didn't know that I was.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
I mean, if I thought about it, I knew that
I was the only one that was going to play
in a Grand final out of especially the thirty four
and apart from Fletch, he played a couple of grand finals.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
He was about fifty.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Yeah beforehand, but afterwards yeah, and I got a lot
of messages about that and then rooting for me, and
it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
The first quiet moment that you had to yourself after
winning the flag. I imagine that was a few loud moments,
but the first quiet moment that you had to yourself,
did you reflect on it all? Or have you had
a moment where you've reflect did on everything?
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I know it was a really emotional one after the
prelim for me, like to get through to the Grand Final.
I rang my wife and cried and I knew I
didn't have to play the next week, and obviously the
former in I thought we were going to win. And
but after the ground, for after the wine, there wasn't
many quiet moments. There's always someone there and it was
(53:22):
a big few days, but I have had time to
reflect and it still just doesn't seem really in a way,
like it's it's so surreal the fact that something that
I've strived to do from when I was five years
old and all these things that happened along the way,
and to be able to achieve what I've achieved when
I would have been happy with just one game at
AFL level, I'll pinched myself and yeah, it's I mean,
(53:46):
I'm sure when I'm done, I'll when I'm done with
my footy, I'll I hopefully I have more. But I'm regardless,
I'm super proud of what I've been able to do
and under the circumstances that I've been that have been
throwing my way.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
As well, you should be proud. You've been through a
heck of a lot, Like it's an insane story what
you've shared over the last hour. You should be really
proud of everything you've overcome and what you've achieved on
top of it.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Thanks, it's been it's been good, and like I wouldn't
change anything for the world. Obviously, I wish my brother
was here, but certain things happened for a reason, and
this is my story. There's so many different stories out
there of hardship and this is just mine. You know,
(54:32):
it's my story. I'm glad I can share it. Yeah,
I'm just super happy with how my life has turned out,
and the football club has had so much to do
with it. Both football clubs have changed me into a
grab from Frankston to hopefully a nice man that lives
in Caulfield now.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
So I thought it was more down morning to wait.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
It sells the story better.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Do you think you're a better person all?
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Definitely. It's you surround yourself with people you know. And
in my first few years I was a bit rough
around the edges, and anyone from Essen will tell you
it's crazy to think what I've been able to achieve.
And the person I am now is a totally different
person than what I was when I walked through the door.
(55:25):
I surrounded myself with good characters. Michael Hurley, Joe Watson
was a really close friend of mine, Cale Hooker, Tom
Bell Chambers. Those guys really nurtured me and nursed me
into a decent young man, I guess, and rather than
a kid that could have thrown his career away really
quickly and I'm definitely a better person now for the
(55:46):
people that I've met and being in the industry, I mean,
and I've met something nice people along the way that
have helped me out with that.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
I really appreciate the last hour. Thank you for everything
that you've shared, and congratulations on winning the flag as well.
Huge well done on that one. But thanks for being
so open and honest, because I know a lot of
people listen and they're going through their own grief or
their own difficulties, and I know because they've shared it
with me that it helps them to hear stories like yours.
(56:13):
So I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
It's a pleasure and hopefully you're right, And if this
helps anyone in any way, then I'm glad I did
it anyway, but it just makes it more worth while.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Thanks Mane Tears Soon Time. Thanks for listening to this
episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If you're new to the podcast,
go back and check out the previous two seasons. If
this chat was triggering for you, please know there is
help out there beyond blue dot org, dot au or
(56:43):
Lifeline one three, double one one four A just a
couple of places you can go. A new episode will
drop next week if you'd like to get in touch
at ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram or at narrowly underscore
Meadows on Twitter. Thanks for listen us a Rica from you,
right Ala Bada. Tell me that you want to be.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Just not me, That you want to me.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Because I'm Competraey the fire with food.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
Send me that you want a big
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