Nic Naitanui - Ordineroli Speaking - Ordineroli Speaking

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Ordinarily Speaking, I found be careful who you pretend to be,
because you might just forget who you really are soon time.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello and welcome to season two of Ordinarily Speaking, a
podcast that celebrates resilience in sport. It's great to be
back and I'm so excited for you to hear this episode.
Today's guest is footballer Nick Natanui. Nick is one of
Australia's most recognizable sports stars. The West Coast Eagle has
overcome plenty of adversity across his life to get to

(00:51):
where he is. In the past six years alone, the
boy from Fiji lost his beloved mum, played in a
losing Grand final, did two acls, and then watched from
the sidelines as his teammates won a premiership. All of
it drives him every day. I'm really excited for you
to hear this episode because this is Nick exactly as

(01:13):
I've come to know and love him. A storyteller at times,
a bit of a contradiction, but most of all, a
genuine and generous human being who is a product of
his mother's hard work and big heart. He has always
held on to his sense of humor and love of culture,
and that really comes through in this chat. I hope
you enjoy listening to this app as much as I

(01:33):
enjoyed recording it. Don't forget if you like the podcast,
hit subscribe, follow at ordinarily Underscore speaking on Instagram, and
tell your mates, well, Nick, thanks very much for spending

(01:56):
some time with me. You're laughing already, so this should
be a little bit of fun in honor of not
being able to travel at the moment. I know you
love traveling and you've seen some amazing little corners of
the world. It also is a great opportunity to get
outside your comfort zone. I wanted to ask you about
a couple of times that you've been traveling and fair

(02:16):
to say you've been outside your comfort zone. Starting with
a story you told me recently about the time you
went with West Coast to Cambodia and forced to share
a room with the head coach, John Worsfold in interesting circumstances.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah that was Oh thanks for having me to start with,
but yeah, that was some interesting time. So our team
goes across there. The first to third year players go
across to Cambodia and it helps out some of the
orphanages and build houses and learn a bit about their
pass and their history in Cambodia, And yeah, I stated
at orphanage with a number of my teammates and a

(02:55):
few coaches, and yeah, I was lucky enough to bunk
with John Warsfold. And yeah, I had an orphanage in
the middle of Cambodia, and it was not the greatest
place to sleep. I remember a rat running across me,
but I think I told you that, but it was. Yeah.
I couldn't react to it because you know, the head
coach that anyone looks soft in front of.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Him, so you were literally sharing bunk beds with him.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
I was sharing a bunk bed. Yeah, I was at
the top, he was down the bottom, and just rat
ran across and I wanted to squeal because I hate rodents.
I'm scared of mice, like I hate things like I
don't know why I hate those things, Like I can
deal with deal with snakes, deal with spiders, but mice
and rats, I just hate. So to see one of
those big things, which is look like a cat, it
was that big run across. I had to deal with it, yeah,
and I had to suck it up, but I was scared.

(03:39):
I didn't sleep one night, But yeah, everyone was winging
about the beds and you know, the sheets and whatnot.
But I didn't care about that. I was more worried
about what was going to run into my mouth when
I was asleep.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
And you're a bit worried about looking a little weak
in front of the head coach as a youngster.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, I was, what was I nineteen or so? So yeah,
I didn't want to look, you know, intimidated by a
little small mouse. So no, I'm gonna lie it was
a big cat, look like a dog. But yeah, I
didn't want to look sof so I just suck it up.
But that was one of the interesting trips and one
of the interesting places I've slept around the world.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Still not even close to being the most interesting story
you've told me about your travels. Tell me about the
time that you went to the Syrian border.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Oh yeah, that'd be a bit careful with this one. No,
I like to travel somewhere different, I think for me,
I guess growing up here in Perth, we've got the
best coastline, the best beaches, white sandy beaches and ocean.
So when people think of holiday destinations, they think of,
you know, going to an amazing island or an amazing
beach around the world. And for me, I'm the complete opposite.

(04:43):
Like my family, my village is back home in Fiji
and we've got white, sandy beaches and great islands and
same here in Perth. So for me, I try to
get the complete opposite and somewhere different. And sometimes, yeah,
I go to the extreme level when I go to
places where you probably shouldn't travel or less traveled. And
I was in Israel. I went to Israel, and while
I was there, it was fun, but I wanted to

(05:03):
see the Gaza Strip, so I went there. I wanted
to see Palestine, so I went across and saw Bethlehem
and went you know, through Palestine, and then yeah, I
went to the Syrian border, and yeah, it was different.
Like when you're seeing missiles fly over your head at nighttime,
or you know, people walking around with you know, machine
guns like Ak forty seven's in the street, things like that,

(05:24):
or you see millets and groups running wild with their
you know, on the back of their Toyta highlaxes. It's
a big eye opener. It's a different world. And you know,
for me growing up here in Perth, you know, the
suburb of Midland. Like a lot of people out there,
I think they're gangsters. Yeah, you know, gangsters like you
go over there, those guys there are gangsters, like they're
real thugs, like they you know, they see some stuff

(05:45):
and they deal with some real last stuff and it
just I love things that put things into perspective, and
for me, that was one of the biggest eye open
It's probably not the safest. I wouldn't recommend anyone going there.
The club didn't really like me going there, but my
own man, I'm a free spirit, so I'm free to
travel where I can when I can.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
So just not at the moment.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Just not at the moment. Yeah I say that now,
but yeah, at the time, I thought it was a
good idea and I'm actually happy that I witnessed it.
I got back in one piece. All the times, it
didn't feel like I was going.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
To tell me about that because you were legitimately scared
at a few moments.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, I was really scared. I don't like talking about
it because the club told me not to go, and
a good friend about as Julie Bishop, she helped me
get across there with.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Shod pick up that little name drop there.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, she helped me get across, obviously, having a lot
of dealings with you know, foreign affairs and the stuff over.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
And a West Coast fan obviously, Yeah, she was.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
The number one ticket holder for a while at West Coast,
And yeah, she helped me get in contact with a
few people and put me in the right places. But
in Israel I was safe. But once I crossed the border,
and you know, especially when you're in Palestinian areas, or
you know, you're in a place where the bloke driving
around doesn't speak English, and like I said, there's militant
groups in certain parts. Yeah, I found myself in some

(07:04):
sticky situations, like I remember one time I had to
lay down flat in the car and put a jacket
over my head because I was in the wrong place
at the wrong time, and I looked like an American
but I was you know, I was screaming I'm from Fiji,
so they didn't know where I was from. But yeah,
times like that where you worry and you think something
really bad is going to happen, or I'm not going
to see my you know, my friends were family again.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
But and you legitimately thought that in that moment.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Oh yeah, I'm happy to say I cried. I cried,
I lay down and cried. But I'm telling you right now,
if anyone else is in that situation, it was like
a movie, you'd be screaming and crying too. So but
I'm happy, like I'm happy I did it. I'm glad
I did it, and yeah, I won't do it again.
I won't do it again. I'm actually happy that I
got told or I have no option to travel this year.

(07:49):
I can actually stay home and.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
See Berth just laying down in the back of a car.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, the guy. The guy didn't speak any English, so
he spoke Arabic, and for some reason I understood Arabic
because I could see it in the fear in his eyes,
so I could speak fluent Arabic when he's telling me
to lay down and cover myself up and don't get up.
I remember because the funniest part was we'll probably ten
minutes from the border trying to get back, and I
was so scared that he was like, okay, all clear,

(08:15):
all clear, we can we can you can sit up now,
we can go back, and I legit laid flat. I
was just like I was laying It was so embarrassing.
But I was laying flat and still talking to him
as he drove and sat up upright because there was
no way I was sitting up and risking it. So
I was like, you know what, mate, No, I'm all good.
I'll lay down flat, yeah, and I'll talk to you.
But there's no chance. I almost died back there. I'm
not getting up. But yeah, it was an experience. It

(08:38):
was an experience.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
The last travel one I wanted to bring up USA.
New Year's some pretty illustrious company. Who are you hanging
out with? And is it true that you lost your
passport and it showed up in a certain reality TV
stars house a little while later?

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, no, that's a lot. I was over there, tin
was Actually no, I wasn't. I I was training, but
we did have New Years. Yeah, I did lose my passport,
so I forgot my driver's license, so I had to
use my passports Idea around the place. And I don't know, No,
that's a lie. This is this is where my humility
has to come into it, because I got humbled real quick.

(09:18):
Because in Perth, the way it works, I go out,
I don't have to carry Idea around. I could just
get him in my head. In my head, I thought,
I'm who I am nicknamed. I can go around and
do what I want. So I try to. Yeah, I
try to rock up and where's your idea, sir? And
there's no you know, you say you play football? Like what? Who? Like? Where? Like? Yeah?

(09:39):
So I had to actually get a cab and go
and get my passport. So that's probably why I lost it,
because I'm not used to carrying something like that around.
But yeah, news E was a good experience.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Who are you hanging out with?

Speaker 1 (09:51):
I don't like, Yeah, some some big people. Yeah, No,
it's some basketballers and some musicians and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Ben Simmons and a few others.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah. So with Ben, and he was dating one of
the Kardashians at the time, So one of the jeners,
so Ye had hooked us up, and you know, we
caught up a few times beforehand, and we got invited
to Drake had a New Year's e party at his
club in LA in Beverly Hills, and yeah, I was
there with them. And it was funny because I had

(10:20):
my little strength and conditioning coach, Jordan. He came across
with me and trained for two weeks and he doesn't
know a thing about Hollywood isn't watched. I don't think
he watches TV. So he was in there with Lebron,
like he did the Countdown with Lebron and Chris Brown
and you know nas, all these guys are in there.
And I remember he went up to this big this
big dude with a leather jacket on and he goes, so, hey, mate,

(10:43):
what do you do for crust? And this American guy,
you know, had twenty gold chains and all the rings
and stuff. He was like, who there is this dude?
What's what's his goal? What's his deal? And I was like, oh,
I'm so sorry, Like it doesn't mean it. He's not
being rude. And he's like, what do you mean mate?
What do you What do you do for a crust?
And he goes, what does across me me? And he
goes what do you did for a job? And he's
like you're in my VP section And I was like, man,
Jordy walk away and he goes why. I said, man,

(11:05):
that guy's P Diddy, Like you're asking P Diddy in
his little private area what he does for a job. Like, man,
you're embarrassing me. But I think low key they loved it.
Because no one knew well he didn't know who they were.
But yeah, man, like it was. It was different, It
was different, but yeah, memorable, memorable New Years e that
I won't forget.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Where did your passport show up?

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I don't known. It was at someone's outside the house
party afterwards. So Scott Scotty, Yeah, Scott six Scott. Yeah,
I don't know how he got it, but yeah, it's
funny because we sat. I spent New Year's Day at
the Australian Immigration in La downtown La trying to get

(11:49):
a whole new, brand new passport. But that was a
process and then yeah, finally got it back. So fun times,
fun times. But yeah, those are all past memories now
stuck here in Perth. Yeah, what do I do near you?
I spent New Years on the Swan River with a
couple of my schoolmates, so just as good.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Who'd be the most impressive person in your little black
book of contacts?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Ah don't know, don't know, no idea, No, I don't know.
It's probably hard to pick. Probably hard to pick. Nah.
One of my teammates, I don't know, Luke Shoey, I
don't know. Yeah, they seem to look after me. Yeah,
but they fun times.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
I love it. One of the stories that stands out
to me, and I'll get into the serious stuff soon,
but one of the stories that I always bring up
around you. We've obviously known each other for many, many
years now, ever since you retouted as potential number one
draft pickers as a teenager. But I remember being in
Melbourne working on the footy and you, I think, sent
me a DM on Twitter and said promo shoots are

(12:52):
coming up. I've forgotten my jumper, my West Coast jumper.
Where's an AFL store that I can Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
That was Bush's fault. Usha put me on the pump.
They didn't pack my guernsey for me, and yeah, I
didn't know. I didn't know anyone in Melbourne. And I
hit my manager up, Paul Connors, if you're listening, and
he was no help. And I thought, who's a West
Australian who followed his West Coast. You didn't obviously follow
West Coast, you were free supporters. He didn't help me,
but I just need the jumper, and I clearly figured

(13:21):
I just because I guess going up on Perth, you
realize you think West Coast is or three are the
two biggest things in Australia, Like you don't just think wa.
So to go there and realize that there's no AFL
store selling West Coast was was a bit of a
shock to me. I don't know. I was like, sure,
they can just walk into a you know, a sports
store and buy one.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
But I just love find I love the fact that
you were willing to walk into an AFL store and go,
can I please I have a number nine.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Jump. I don't worry, I've done it many times before. Yeah,
I didn't think of it like that. I was still young.
I don't know. I didn't know how the AFL system worked.
I just needed the jumper. I used to work in
the sports store, so I just thought it was a
thing to do. I was desperate, didn't desperate.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Didn't know that a few years now the track you'd
be spending New Years with Lebron James and the Kardashians.
Times have changed good now. This podcast is about resilience
and celebrating resilience, and your whole life really is a
picture of resilience and overcoming plenty of adversity. But the
last five or six years in particular have been so

(14:27):
I want to go back to what made your parents
move from Fiji in the first place.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Oh, I think most like most Fijian families or most
on the families, it's a better opportunity. Like life on
the islands pretty good and everyone's pretty happy and comfortable
with what they do. But I guess those who seek
more or want more for their children try and get overseas.
So the two destinations for the three destinations for Fijians

(14:55):
either America or New Zealand or Australia. So New Zealand's
got a heavy population in Fijians and so does Australia.
And yeah, for them, it was more better opportunity for
us and you know, finding finding ways that you know,
we can do better at school and you know, live
a better life. I still feel the lifestyle on Fiji

(15:17):
is a lot nicer, like it's pretty carefree and everyone's
got so little, but they're so happy, which I still
enjoy getting bits and pieces of that every now and then.
But yeah, I'm grateful we're here though, because I've been
able to set myself up and set a lot of
my family up as well with the things I've been
able to achieve by going to a good school and
getting a good education.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
What did your parents give up to come here and
how tough was that for them to get started?

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, it's pretty tough, I think the family aspect of things.
And it took me years to understand that. Like I
just thought it'd be a simple move and you know,
get going, but coming across with just the clothes in
your back, like, no support, no no money, Like I guess,
you know, you're not in titled to you know, social
benefits and things like that. So for me, I didn't

(16:04):
really understand it until a couple of years ago. My
sister who was living in Fiji, she just moved back
here with her children and realizing that they're not entitled
to medicare or centering things like that to help subsidize
certain things. Just how hard it probably would have been
on my family back then. I sort of knew, like
I knew, but I didn't really know, you know, to

(16:25):
what extent that they were facing hardships at you know,
especially feeding you know, growing little humans all the time.
It would have been pretty hard work. So I think
I've got a pretty good grasp on what it would
have been like for them back then.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
How many siblings do you have I've got an.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Older brother, I've got an older sister, and I've got
a twin brother.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, there's four little kids to four.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, And my older brother and sister stayed back in
Fiji for a little bit, and myself and my twin
brother were here, but we'd be back and forth with
the time, So even things like a fair has gone
back to Fiji. Like I sometimes think, how did my
mum afford to pay for us to fly all the
way back there and come back all the time. But
it just shows if you work hard enough, like mum
was working pretty hard, shifts going out, you can you know,

(17:09):
you can do those sort of things. And I think
the importance of actually understood the benefit of taking us
back and you know, learning about culture, learning about family,
And for her it was getting back to family as well.
Like I think one thing that we miss here is
the community aspect and the family aspect of things. And
like I said, my sister's probably been a big eye
opener for me because back home, you can just leave

(17:31):
your kids with whoever, or you can just run around
the street because everyone's in a tight knit village, whereas here,
you know, it's very rare that you catch up with
your neighbors. Every single neighbor in your street. You might
know one or two, but it's rare that you know
every single one and you're you're doing everything. You're just
walking into their house and making yourself something to eat.
If I did that, he could probably get arrested. So yeah,
So that kind of lack of community or family, it's

(17:55):
probably the biggest loss, yeah, and probably the biggest downside
to coming here. But the side, I think the benefits
have been able to achieve a heap more at school
and we did workplace and go further, you know, makes
up for it all.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
So you were born in New South Wales and your
dad passed away of cancer when you were two too, Yeah,
when I was two.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
So then my mum's brother actually moved over afterwards and
he moved to Perth. He met some guys while he
was in Fiji and got a job in Karatha out
of all places, and was like, I've got this house
in this fabulous area. You're going to help look after
my kids while, you know, and stay with us while
I'm on the mind, and things like that, And that
place happened to be Midvale or Midland, and yeah, that's

(18:37):
why that became my home, a new home. And yeah,
we recited there for you know, most of my childhood life.
But we did move to and front places a lot
going up. Like yeah, like I said, it's hard, especially
if you don't have a documentation or you don't have
things behind you to help you, you know, even to
rent a house. Like people know how it is to
rent a house now, but to rent a house it

(18:59):
came from overseas is having their money things like that.
It was. It was tough. We lived in so many
different hours a going up. I think I can of
the other day I was, I reckon up until a
year twelve, I probably lived in about fifty sixty houses.
Wow really so yeah, I didn't really. We didn't own
our first house until I started playing footy. So I
remember sitting down with Trevor Nisbert and John Moresort at

(19:19):
the time, and that was one of my goals was
to buy a house. And they figured out a plan
and said, Nick, you want to buy a five hundred
thousand dollar house, this is what you need to do, this,
this and this says how much you can spend each
week with my management as well, and then you can
do it and that was a proudest thing of my life.
I think, like to buy my first family house like

(19:39):
it was. It wasn't the greatest house, but for me,
it was like the taj Mahal was the biggest thing ever.
I thought it was amazing. So and it was ours,
like you didn't have to worry about like rent, expect inspections.
You have to worry about someone coming to check that
your beds clean, things like that, or your bond. You're
not getting your bond back because you scratch the walls.
So that was something I lived with my whole childhood.

(20:00):
So to have your own house, yeah, it was. But
I'm still thankful for being able to go through some
of the hard times as well. I don't think it
would have I would put me in a good situation
when I got the footy if I hadn't had those things.
So it made me work harder. It did teach me resilience.
It taught me compassion for others. It still teaches me
that as well. So I'm very understanding when guys aren't

(20:23):
going through the you know, the best of times, or
they're not going down the right past. There's always a reason.
But my biggest thing Punctuality is big with me as well,
because I used to you know, my mum never had
a license growing up single mother, so I'd always catch
I used to have the me and my brother used
to stick it tate in the hallway, all the bus
routes for every bus in our area, and then the

(20:45):
train times everything so we could get from like I'd
have State training and Clermont and then come back and
have training and bassading for Swan districts, and then get
the Midvale for my local training. I'll get the school
and then get to the State Library to go and
do my study. Because we didn't have a printer at home,
so I'd know how to get back and forth and
get it all on time to get home and have
dinner and then get to school on time the next morning.
So when I see young guys, my biggest thing was

(21:06):
a young guy up late to training. They still eat
to me, even though I shouldn't let it eat me.
But it's just one of those things that still do
because I'm like you if you're you know, if you
didn't wake up and you can still drive your car
in time, like man, I was catching three trains my
first two years at playing West Coast, Like, sure, it's
not that hard to get right, but sometimes I have
to pull myself back and go, you know what, everyone's different.

(21:26):
Room excels or it doesn't do well in certain areas,
so just let it be.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
What was the look on your mom's face when you
told her about the house?

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Oh proud. Yeah, it's sick of you know, we're sick
of living with other people, like I listed to live
with cousins and that. Like even when I was when
I got drafted, I remember I trained. I remember training
at West Coast that first week when I got to
the club, and yeah, I was still sharing. I was
sharing a house with one of my mum's friends, this
elderly lady like she was she would have been seventy
or so, and her family, And yeah I was sharing

(21:58):
a bedroom, Like I shared a bedroom with my mom
and my brother when I was year twelve doing my
TEA exams and then getting drafted as an eighteen year old.
So I am yeah, I look back now, I got
I've got a nice house and stuff like that. But
sometimes I feel a bit guilty because I'm like, man,
like this one little room like this could fit three
of us in it.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Like it's just got your shoes in it.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I just got my shoes And now I'm like, man,
imagine this when I was growing up, Like, man, I
could have laid here, I could have slept there. Got
it eaten over.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Here, sleeping. You don't sleep on beds, doude.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Oh I don't. I don't. It's funny you say that
because it was really hot on four was it Friday night?
Just gone? And I slept in the kitchen. I sat
on the floor because the tiles are real cold. And yeah,
I'm a weirder like that, but I do have air
and I do have a fan. I do own those things.
But I don't know something about the tiles are just
a little bit cooler.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
So when did that start.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
I think it's a Fiji thing. I always people always
ask me, but I think I never really noticed it.
But when I go to my family's house, it's the
same thing. Like if you walk into a Fiji or
any if you if you know a salmon or a
tonguein or even some of the New Zealand guys, like
you see a couch in their house, they will never
sit on it unless you're an Aussie and you're coming around.
But if it's just them, you'll see the couches just

(23:11):
for decoration. You just go and sit. You know how
those old like Italian or slav families have like the
couch with all the plastic over it. They had that
little land room that it's there. It's nice, but no
one touches, No one uses just a little showcasing. That's
like my bed in my house and all Fie Jean's
houses the beds like that, and so is the couches.
You don't use it. You just go and sleep next
to it on the floor. You sit on the front

(23:31):
of the couch on the floor. You never sit on it,
so unless you have visitors. So yeah, Christmas time is
hard because you know my friends will come over and
that I'm like man like you guys acts act Australian
for a bit, like using knife and fork because we
eat with our hands like you know, like don't sit
on the ground like sit on the table in the
chairs like. But then after awhile, it's like you know
what stuff people don't like it. You can't be please everyone,

(23:53):
you know, but there are certain times we have to
check yourself and go. We're in Australia, live the old way.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
What was the I guess the hardest, the worst place
that you lived in.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
The hardest, the worst? Where was I I lived in
a detention center when I was young, When I was
real young, when I was at four or five, I
lived in an attention center in New South Wales. Yeah,
we didn't really have our documentation and things like that,
especially when my old man passed away. You know, he
obviously brought us over and things like that, so we
didn't have you know, full citizenship and things like that.

(24:30):
So yeah, we spend a bit of time in there.
So those kind of things still stick out of me,
Like I like going to refugee camps and working with
children from those sort of backgrounds, because yeah, I've been there,
I've lived through, I've done what they've done. And you know,
those guys that come through the AFL system of fled war,
you know, guys like a Leer, a Leer and things
like that. So that's why those guys. I have a

(24:51):
lot of time with those guys and some of the
kids that come through my academy at the moment they
come through those those pathways and I'm like, you know,
you can still achieve even though you've been there or
you've you've done things like it's you know, it's just
something that you'll learn from and you know, obviously hopefully
it inspires you to do better and you know, to

(25:12):
inspire others as well. So that's probably been the toughest
place I live. But in saying that, I was pretty young.
So when you're a kid, you're pretty oblivious to how
hard it is. You know, you've got food, you've got
a bed, like it's not that bad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, how long were you there for?

Speaker 1 (25:26):
We spent probably close to six months to a year. Yeah,
so yeah, not ages, but long enough to remember. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, you must have such an enormous amount of respect
for your mum. The fact that she lived through that
with YouTube boys as a single mum. That must like, yeah, the.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Players of me, Yeah, it does. I think, like when
things get tough, I'm like, man, for if my mum
could do it, Like I don't know what wings and
like I wings about having a walk down the road
and someone young about nicknat as I get a coffee,
but I always go, like I always put myself back
and go. You know, mum went through some tough you know,
mentally that would have been tough, like you know, some
of the pride things and some of the embarrassment of

(26:06):
having a asked for a hand. Mum never really asked
for help too often, but would take it when she
really needed it. But she'd do anything for us like
us boys, like I think, yeah, I like you said,
if she could. She was always willing to help others too.
So my mum worked at a women's refuge with domestic violence,
but also worked at a homeless shelter for most of
her life, and she was always helping others. So Christmas

(26:27):
time at my house was with three or four other families,
or she was at work with those families. So I've
always been used to sharing, like I've always what's mine is, yeah,
what's mine is yours kind of thing. But I didn't
say I can't. I'll be lying if I said I didn't.
You know, I didn't like it like I liked it.
I hated it like I hated having to share my things.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
But you're already a twins, so yeah, no, So.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
This is the worst part. So people dont understand that
I've got a like I said, my older sister, my
twin brother, and myself had the same birthday. We were
all born the same day. It's the worst thing ever.
It's the worst thing ever because you know, everyone goes, oh,
it's my birthday. It's not my birthday.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
You even hate the day as well.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I hate May the fourth, May the fourth, my birthdays
May the fourth, and I get these I used to
get these shitty little Star Wars cards every year, May
the Fourth be with you, and oh yeah, the gag
just gets older and older, and still to this day
it happens like you'll get a little notification on Instagram
or Twitter or something and someone's sending your Darth Vader
or Luke Skyl. I don't even watch Star Wars. I

(27:27):
hate Star Wars, so to see that stuff, I'm like,
I hate birthdays. I'm a birthday greench I'm a Christmas Grench.
I hate all that stuff because I think, I think
maybe because I have to share everything, Like you know,
when your birthday you get this massive cake, but you
think about it, like I used to sit there on
birthdays and there used to be singing a song with
your candle's happy birthday, and everyone just pauses because I
don't know whose name to say Birthday're like like so

(27:50):
so so I reckon, it's not funny, don't laugh. So
my my birthday is a murmur like, it's just a
little mumble. That's why I reckon, I'm mumble because my
birthday song every year has been a mumble like because
everyone sings it and everyone gets to that point where
they're just happy birthday, dear, because I don't know whose
name to say Firth out of the three of us.
So stuff birthdays. Please move on to the next question.

(28:11):
I was making me angry thinking about it getting old.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
How does having a mom like that shape who you are?
And because you do give back a lot. I know
you don't necessarily like talking about it, but you do
give back a lot and you do a lot of
really generous things.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, I think that's just probably instilled me now, like
I kind of feel obliged to do it, but the
same thing, I'm willing and I want to do it
just because I know how hard it was. I know
how hard it was for my family to get through
certain times and to do certain things, and just that
little bit of help, Like I remember I couldn't afford
footy books when I first started playing. And I'll never
forget one of the guys I played with. His name

(28:50):
was Cameron Manuel. He's the old man gave me my
first pair of footyboots because I played my first season
and a half in just in sneakers, and he gave
me my first fair of fair of footy boots. And
you know, I cherished those things like it was a
you know, like they were a million dollar pair. So
things like that, like they're little things, and I always
think that, you know, he probably never realized the impact
that actually had on me. But for me, I used

(29:11):
to think, Man, I've got a pair of footybooches. Now,
now I'm gonna be CHRISTI out like I'm I'm a
gun now like I was okay before, but now I'm
really good because I've got a pair of footybriochs. So
things like that, like I think, I think, unknowingly, if
you do more of those things, there's gonna be one
person out there that it really impacts and it helps them,
you know, pursue their career even more so it just
just helps them out and it helps their family as well,

(29:31):
Like it takes that burden off my mum having to
buy what a footybooks now two hundred bucks? I don't
have parents afford it, but especially if you've got a
number of kids, or you're working a number of jobs,
like to justify buying a pair of footybooths and playing
footy fees like I had, I had people in my
area used to pay for myself, Like I had a
pretty poor community where I grew up, and we had
this Italian guy, Frank Viccio, used to help pay. I

(29:54):
don't know if I'm aloud to say this, but he'd
pay our school fees, pay our footy fees, and you
just find ways to pay them back over the time,
because otherwise, I don't reckon I would go to school.
I don't reckon I would have been playing footy if
it wasn't for people like that, because you just can't
afford certain things, Like there was no chance I was
paying cricket because I couldn't afford gloves, pads, bats and
all that kind of stuff. There's some stealing them. There's
no way that I was. There was no way that

(30:14):
I was playing for that stuff. So cricket was the
least thing I was interested in because I knew that
stuff's prizy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, Was there any point, at any point in time
in your childhood that you did sort of veer down
that path or worry that that could be a way
of doing things, or did your mom just always keep
you on the straight and narrow.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
I was pretty nah yeah, oh no, Like I think
sometimes when you really want something and you need something,
you sort of justify in your head that taking something
is taking stealing something is worthwhile.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
So if I needed a pair of footy socks because
I know I really need it, like my old workplace
is going to hit this Slayer Guard Sports, they brought
these like high performance socks. So every sock now has
these like elasticity in it. And Swan Districts had these
black socks and everyone had them. They were like fifteen bucks,
and I was like, man, I don't have fifteen bucks.
So I used I just take a couple of pairs.

(31:08):
He's take a couple of pairs and help some of
my mates out who didn't who couldn't afford fifteen dollars
socks because I didn't want these old wet cotton socks.
And when it rained, like you know, like I played
with guys like Alex Rants and that, and you know,
rance he had money, wouldn't under saying they had money,
and he used to have all the gear. He had
a pair of skins, things like that, and I was like, man,
I want some of that, and if that's gonna make
me a better player, I'll find a way to get

(31:28):
some of that. So either work harder or I just borrow.
So a few of us boys just borrowed and didn't return.
But it was, yeah, I don't know, I really did
it because I knew if I came home and I
didn't and I was doing things like that, there's gonna
be consequences. So I was. I was fearful, feul.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, if pinching socks is the worst that you did,
even if they were fancy socks, I feel like that's
pretty good.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
I don't care you steal a lot of you steal
the cars, the same thing, and still stealing. That doesn't
make her right.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
You've you've since in the book about social inclusion, and
you've spoken a little bit about growing up in Midland.
Did you ever feel that as a kid, did you
feel that you were different?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
That's a stupid question. I'm tall, black and skinny and
got bloody, crazy curly. Yeah, of course I felt different.
There was no one else that looked like me around me.
I was playing this game called football, and there was
no one I could go, yep, that's me right there.
There was Derek kick it, that's about it. And he
wasn't even from my country. It was like, yeah, so
I didn't feel like anyone was like me. So I
felt out of place for sure. Every day of the week,

(32:35):
everywhere I went, Like, you know what, the funny thing is,
I always I've got a joke with my friends. I'm like, man,
I'm a token black guy because everywhere you go, Like
I went swimming down South and duns were yelling up
last week and I was in the swimming hole and
I said to one of my mates, I was like, man,
I'm the only black person here. So like when I
took him to Fiji, I was like, man, you realize
you're the only white guy here. And he's like, yeah,

(32:56):
I feel weird. I'm like, yeah, welcome to my life.
Me every single day that's me. I feel like odd
one out And yeah, I think I'm going off track here,
but I think all the time I felt out of place.
But yeah, I think it's such a multicultural society now
that you know you walk into a classroom and there's
such a mixture of children that kids don't really know
the difference. But for me growing up, like, yeah, I

(33:18):
was dark, but I wasn't indigenous. I had a lot
of Indigenous kids, but I wasn't one of them. But
it did help because, yeah, those guys kind of took
me under their wing a bit.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
How did it feel it was a kid to be different?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
I didn't really like, yeah, I knew I was different.
Like my family didn't speak English at home, so you know,
I found it would speak Fiji at home, so it
was that was a different thing, Like that was different.
But I just think you learned, like you just learned
along the way that you were different and you can
embrace that. And for me, yeah, culture has always been

(33:53):
a big thing, I think, going back and forth and
understanding that it's important and you know, we still went
through the customs and the traditions at home. You'll practice
it with the Fijian community here in Perth on a
weekly basis. So if I didn't feel, you know, at
place or in my right place at school, I knew
when I went to these things in the weekend with
my family that I would. It wasn't until I got

(34:14):
to the footy field and I'm playing sport that you know,
you start you know, being subjected to racism and things
like that that you go, wow, do I really want
to do this? Do I fit in? It's just for me?
Maybe they're right, And yeah, those are the only times
I probably felt unhappy or unsafe with it all.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Do you remember the first time that happened?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, yeah, all the time. I remember every single situation. Yeah,
it probably happened. Oh, I'd say every couple of weeks, like,
and it wasn't when it was Sometimes it was players
that I think, but to be parents as well. People
on the sidelines call you certain things, and yeah, I
found ways to react. Sometimes I reacted badly. I used
to get really angry, but then sometimes I just walk away,

(34:53):
And but I always felt a need to say something
back to them. Like as much as people want you
to walk away, I thought, you know, even back then,
pretty scary when it's you know, fifty year old who's
saying these things and you're only twelve years of age.
But you find at a young age, you find the
ways to bite back and you find ways to protect yourself,
and I think that's helped me in good stead to
my adult life as well. So I think speaking up

(35:16):
on it was helpful. They might not like being confronted,
but yeah, it definitely played on me because I used
to think, you know, there was no one else that
out there looked like me. People would say, you know,
are you playing the right sport? Are you lost? What
are you doing? You should be inside the rec center
playing basketball. That's more old people's type of sport. Things
like that, and you go, what am I people? What's
going on? So as a kid it really hurt Now

(35:38):
I look back and laugh at it. But as a kid,
you know, you feel like your world's ending. So you know,
when you fail a test at school or things like that,
I'm like, man, this is nothing like there mean some
real life problems out here. But yeah, it didn't didn't
feel nice. But I don't know. I think the society
has changed a bit over the years. Even looking at

(35:59):
you know, happy reacted to Australia Day yesterday. I think
people have a more whether they agree with what's happening
or not, they have more of an awareness, which is good,
which I reckon as a child at school. When I
was at school, that awareness was sort of there, but
it wasn't really spoken about. It was just in the
back burner a bit.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
What does the kids say to a fifty year old
bloat on the sidelines?

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Can you swear on you? I don't know. No, I
just told them where to go, like I just yeah
I would, Yeah, I'd get angry and probably wasn't the
best way. Like now we do a lot of seminars
and things on how to receive and give feedback, and
probably not the right way to do things because it
wasn't very constructive. But I gave him. I gave him
some back. I never I never gave racism back to

(36:41):
racism though I learned that. I think my mum talking
about was, you know, to take it on board. Obviously
they've got something that they've got some sort of ignorance
or they've got something wrong with them. So yeah, I
never really bit back with racism. I just stood up
for myself. Really, I think I have another colored kid
around you probably helped as well, so they were always

(37:03):
in my corner.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, as a player. Do you still cop it on
social media?

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah all the time. Yeah, yeah all the time. Like
you think sometimes you think you get to a point
like I was saying, well, I didn't take my ID
to the nightclub. You think you're a rock star. Yeah,
sometimes you get to that point where you think you
are what's the word you think you're you know, not
going to be a target, or you're bigger than that.
You're not. But man, i'd say, especially during the season,

(37:31):
you know, especially if you push someone over, you do
something to another person's team that they support, there's always
someone with an anonymous account, sometimes not even anonymous on
some people aren't scared at all. And I'll write some
pretty racist stuff. When I was younger, when I was
nineteen twenty, I used to screenshot a lot of that
stuff and keep on to it. And I see a
lot of guys now repost it and share it and
things like that. That used to be me, but now

(37:52):
I just like, I hate giving them a voice. I'm like, man,
if you're relevant, no one knows who you are, why
should I give you a voice on my platform? Yeah,
I'll call you out. I fight back. I used to
write back to them and have a goal with them,
but especially if I knew they've lived in Perth though,
I'd find a way to meet them, Like I'd find
a way to catch up.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
With them and have you done that?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially when you see someone in nightclub
or something and you know who they are, you know
what they've done. I'll let them know. You wouldn't say
to their face. My biggest thing is some of these guys,
I don't care if you're a twenty year old man
or a sixty year old man, like you saw a
big black guy in public, You're not going to come
up to him and say some of the stuff that
you said. And yeah, it's gotten a few of my

(38:33):
mates and a few of my family members, and my
brother and my cousin's in trouble because they tend to
stick up for me and fight back, which I don't.
I like, but I don't like. I love the loyalty,
but sometimes I hate getting other people in trouble for
my things. I guess, so you know, Yeah, I don't know.
Everyone deals it their own way, but yeah, I just

(38:53):
I don't know. Everyone's got a big big mouth. Everyone's
got a lot more balls when they're on social media,
and they would in real.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Life say all the time, how often well.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
As in social media stuff, Oh every game, every game,
I'd well, we played twenty odd games a year, I'd
get twenty times a year easily, easily. I should probably
start documenting screenshot and keeping it, but I've learned to
move on. I'm like, you know what, Like I'm not
gonna waste I got too much stuff going on to
worry about someone writing me a bag comment. And I
don't mind if you bag my football or you bag

(39:23):
you know the way I do things. But when you
start being in race or you bring family into it
like that kind of stuff, especially what hurts me more
than they do it to my teammates, especially my younger teammates,
Like I got young teammates like Liam Ryan and they
who copy it all the time. And he went through
a phase where he was copping it every single week.
And if they haven't been given the tools or the
resilience to get you know, to look past it, it'll
be a bigger person and just you know, not let

(39:46):
it affect them too much. I'd be okay, But when
I see how much it hurts them and hurts their family,
you know, like that, that really pisses me off. Like yeah,
especially when they bring their children into it and things
like that. That's just like I don't know, Sometimes you
just want to catch some of these. I was one
on one and deal with them because you just because
I just like you just you would never do it
like you wouldn't do it anyone. So but everyone's why different.

(40:09):
Someone's got a reason why they do it. They just
need to be educated.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, when you became a big footy star, what does
your mom think about it? All?

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Nothing? Like I said, we'll still we'll still share the
same room. So I was still sleeping there. I was
still washing dishes. I still mop on the floors, which
I still like doing.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Because you got to sleep on them.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, because I want to. That's you know, that's that's
probably why I actually like I want to. I got
a new dice and vacuum and things like that. I
got to mop like I enjoy those things because I
sleep on the floor. That's probably why it makes sense. Now. No,
she didn't really care, like she was still like, you know,
I think going back to Fiji is a big thing,
Like no one really cares what you do. Like you
go back to the village, you still have to go

(40:51):
and do what everyone else does. Like it doesn't matter
whether you earn a hundred million dollars a year or
you're on TV or you you know, the biggest scientists
in the world, whatever you do, you're still an everyday person,
which I like, sometimes I get pissed off. I'm like,
there's no way I'll be doing this back in Perst,
so they wouldn't make me do this. And then I'm like,
that's just my ego speaking there and pull myself back

(41:14):
and you know, it's good. And that happened at home
every day. Like my twin brother didn't give a shit
what I did. He'd wake up at four o'clock in
the morning because he's a plumber and go to work
and he'd bang his tool as loud as you can,
and he'd be like, you know what, I come home
from training, like, I complain on my back, so I
had a hard session. He's like, oh, cry, I cry
like he was. He's been clean and shit out of
people's toilet since four thirty in the morning all day.

(41:34):
And that stuff would just you know, put things in
a perspective and I go, you know what, Yeah, he
had a harder day to me. I'dn't been playing. I
was kicking the foot around like I had to lift
an extra weights, the extra weight in the gym in
the air co on, like it's not that hard. Yeah
it's hard work, but yeah, it's all relative. It's all relative.
So those guys are good just to you know, keep

(41:54):
me grounded.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I guess yeah, because you are a brilliant contradiction because
you you hate the public card that you also get
quite cranky and people don't recognize that one. With your
niece and nephews the other day.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Pick up, they just don't appreciate me. My niece and
nephew don't appreciate me. Like I've been doing book I've
been getting school books all day today but for them,
and they don't appreciate me. But no, at school that's
the biggest thing. So like my little nephew, I'm picking
him up from school and they've got to hold the
hand policy. As he crossed a bit when there's no crosswalk,
and he refused to hold my hand. I'm not hold

(42:33):
my hand, hold my hand. He's only in primary school,
he's young, and you one, you two, I'm hold my hand,
hold my hand, and he's like no, and I'm like,
just hold my hand. We can't cross the road otherwise,
and he wouldn't do it, and I had to think
I got real upset. I got really angry. I was like,
I actually swore it in the poor little kid. I
was like, do you know how many of your little
friends in your classroom would die to hold his hand?
And then when I said I started laughing to myself.

(42:54):
I was like, man, who do you think you are? Oh?
And he was looking at me. He like looked up
at me. He was like, he's like, what do you mean?
Why would I want to hold you? Why would my
friends want to hold your hand? Yuck? Like? And I
was like, oh shit, Like he doesn't get what I'm saying,
like going on And I was like, don't worry, don't worry,
just hold my hand. I grabbed him, dragg him across
the road. But they still get confused, Like I remember
he came in the other day when I was at
my sister's house and he was like, Mom, Mom, and

(43:17):
I'm sitting on the couch watching cartoons with the other two. Yes,
I love my cartoons. And he goes, oh, mom, the
kids are asking me. Is a nick Nat here? And
then he's like She's like what, He goes nick Nat
And I was like, what are you talking about? You idiot?
Like I am nick Nat, and he was, no, you're
they call me more MoMA means uncle Epheesians. They're like
your MoMA. So they're like, they didn't know my name

(43:38):
was nick Nat, like or people call me nick Nat.
So they were thinking, why are these kids at the
front asking for nick Nat? And why do they want
to see you for? Like they still don't realize that
they know I kick a ball around, but they probably
don't know that it's pretty big over here. But I
like it though, because it keeps me um well. Like
I said, I need those little things because you get
a lot of people saying yes in your life all
the time, so it's good to have people saying no,
or who are you? Like a bunch of hours running

(44:00):
in the house is young. I love it, but I
hate it.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
I hate It's fair to say that you think that
last year, the bubble and the COVID situation, the bubble
that was happening with with the AFL, you thought that
was a bit of an insight for everyone else into
what it's like my life.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, everyone thinks is it's all glamorous and it's all
nice and no it's not. That's my life. The bubble
life is my life. I sit at home doing nothing
like I'll you know, I'll rush to go and quickly
go get a coffee and get out of there as
quick as I can. Like it's rare that I'll sit
around and hang around so for people to go through
COVID and to see you know, you can only be
there and quick contact, have things and you know leave,

(44:35):
you can't dine in and things like that. Welcome to
my life, sucked in. I was loving it. I was
loving the whole hub life like it was like people,
this is and that this will build mental toughness for you,
This will build mental resilience for because people hated it.
People hated not the human contact and things like that.
And I'm like, oh, I wish she just walked the
day in my shoes. Well, had a week in my
life for a bit, and you see how much of

(44:56):
my bedroom wars or how much of my backyard I
see because I don't go and do things. But I
love my bubble as much as I say I you
know it's different and it's it's hard. I enjoy not
being contact with people. I love my own space.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Because you actually did a good deed for me when
I was in hotel quarantine. You came past as a
good ay and way from the outside.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, I waved down what came past and waved. I
was actually visiting one of my teammates, Jared Cameron. I
had to go make sure he was on the right jack,
so went past. He lives on the corner, so I
was going to his So that's the only reason. Otherwise
I wouldn't have come back.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
But then you complained to me in the entire time
because every man and his dog stopped you on the store.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, you saw there was that. Even the homeless guy
came running over to come and hug me. And this
was during COVID time, so not meant to be hugging people.
So he came and described me and hugged me. But
I'm gonna say no, I hugged him back.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
So yeah, I appreciate. I appreciate you leaving.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Is it also true that you and this is a
bit more of a serious one because when people were
laid off or stood down over COVID times, is it
true that you actually went around and made deliveries of
cookies to you're shaking your head when you know it's
true to people who were asked me, who will let go?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
No? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:05):
What was then?

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I know people doing it tough, Like I said, people
doing tough. So a lot of those people had, you know,
the workplace done a lot for me stuff and work
people and some are still still working, but some were
laid off. But I don't know as good as a gesture.
Myself and my brother in law just drove around. It
took us all day. Though Harry did all the hard
work my brother in law. I was just driving around.

(46:28):
So I wasn't really meant to because yeah, because we
were in quarantine COVID sort of time, so we could
drive around, were not meant to go on people's houses.
So Harry just like we loaded up the car and
Harry jumped out at everyone's houses. So we did fifty
six houses or so all over person. So we went
from Junle up Man my mapping schools. Like I said,
I used to have the bus, arm table and my thing,

(46:49):
so I know every single suburb about the back of
my hand. I could get to any suburban perth like that.
I don't need no GPS. So I got from as
far as Burns Beach kind of journal up the area
which is far north Perth all the way to an
hour away down towards like Coburn kind of you know,
Gendercott area out there, and the coast. We did, the hills,
we did, inter city, did apartments. Yeah, we did it all.

(47:11):
It was fun though it was actually it was actually
good for my benefit too, because I was stuck locked indoors,
so to be able to get out and drive around
and see Perth and have a legitimate excuse for the
police pulled me over. Yeah, it was a good thing,
but I don't know, I think they appreciated it. Well.
I hope.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
You're listening to. Ordinarily, speaking with Nick Natanui, twenty fifteen
was a pretty life altering year for you. Tell me
about August and when you found out about your mum.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, that was that was probably the toughest time in
my life. I was getting ready to play Hawthorne here
at home, and yeah, we had a meeting and then
we'd finished up Captain's run day before a game, and yeah,
I found out that The news was pretty devastating because
my mum had just recently moved back to Fiji to
go live over there. So yeah, it was a shock.

(48:11):
It was something you know, I was prepping, prepping to
play footy finals went too far away. Yeah, everything felt
like it was all in place, all in plan. Then
that happened and it was just a massive shock to me.
And yeah, I had to go back home to Fiji
and do what we need to do. And oh it's different,
like I think it was. It was, yeah, and something

(48:32):
I never expected. But it was a big eye opener.
Like and like I said, everything puts things into perspective too,
Like as big as or as much as footy seemed
like it was the only thing I cared about in
the world or the biggest thing I cared about in
the world, I think family, you know, it takes over that,
you know, especially when you're going through some such hardships.

(48:52):
So yeah, it was a tough time. Yeah, that week
and a bit, you know, just trying to book flights
and get over there as soon as possible, telling my
brother when he got home things like that. Yeah, it
was it was tough.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
What do you remember from that phone call?

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, I got a phone call from Fiji telling me
what had what had happened. Yeah, I think it took
I was in sub Black at the time. I was
out getting a coffee just before I went home. So yeah,
I remember I broke down. I was just in my car.
I was just waiting for my coffee and ended up
end up getting it, I think. And I lived. I
lived all the way in the swan View, so in

(49:31):
the Hills a Purse. It's about an hour or so,
forty five or so out of from Subiaco. So in
my head I was thinking, how am I going to
drive all the way home with this on my chest?
So I actually stopped in to see Trevorsbert. I walked
in there crying, and I've walked into his office and
told him and Anna who he's pa. And yeah, I
can't really remember. It's pretty much a blur, but I

(49:53):
think maybe he drove me home. I didn't drive home.
He did, or one of the other staff did. And
went home and sat there, and man, I think something
just takes over. You go from you know, you're really
upset and grieving, but then you also, you know, being
the oldest out of my twins like I've always been,
I guess the one in charge of the one that

(50:13):
takes control, you know, with my whole family too, especially
with playing food, you learn a lot of skills that
some of your family members probably aren't equipped with or
aren't taught, you know, just from their lifestyle. And I've
always been switched on with things like that. And for me,
it just went in the logistical mode, how are we
getting there, what's going on? What do we need to do?
And you go on a full just turbo mode where

(50:35):
you're just going and getting stuff done. And our culture
is different, like morning a loss does happen, but you
still have to get things done like our culture, Like
I don't know how to explain it, Like we go
to the morgue. I have to dress mum, makeup mum,
you do all these things. You've got to carry your
parent into a coffin. You got to pick out the

(50:56):
coffin yourself. Like there's no what you got. There's no
funeral home. There's no like leanno' day or bad whatever
they call them over here, Perslo funeral homes those type
of things. So I know all the funeral homes over here,
but back in Fiji, there's none of that. So you
have to go and you've got to size up. You
know what size coffin you need? What you know things
like that that you're measuring up things. So you're you're grieving,

(51:16):
but at the same time you're getting stuff done. So
I just remember my brother. We cried through the whole
thing like it was. It was tearful, it was hard
to do. But we can't look at each other and
we're like, you know, we got to get this done.
No one else is going to do it for us. Yeah,
we've got family doing other aspects of the funeral here,
but we want to make sure we do it right.
So I left someone else. I left my I think
my sister and that in charge of letting everyone else

(51:37):
know what had happened and what's going on when the
funeral details are but trying to book the funeral when
it's going to happen. You know, hearses, you know in
our village where people bring meat and stuff, so someone
goes and get the cow or pigs. I remember going
to a butcher, not even a butcher, it was like
a chicken farm to go and get like three hundred chickens,
like because you know, the whole village comes out like

(51:58):
not like you just have fifty b would come to
the funeral. We have villages like met like there would
have been a thousand people. So at the funeral, so
you've got to cater for all that kind of stuff.
But yeah, picking clothes, like like I said, just doing
the things that a funeral home normally does for you.
We've had to do it, but it wasn't a shock
to me because I've done it plenty of times with
family members over the years or friends and things like that.

(52:20):
So it's just a part of our culture, you know,
picking out tombstones things like that, and burial spots and
having to dig the whole things like that. So it did.
It was it was a normal thing. But at the
same time, it was probably harder when you know it's
someone so close to you, you know, when it's your mother,
those things are just a little bit harder than what
they normally are. So man, people talk about resilience, that

(52:44):
I was the most resilient I ever had to be,
because I you know, I was grieving, I was mourning,
but I just had to get it done at the
same time. So yeah, And then in the way, in
the back of that, it was after the funeral was done,
I think it all hit me and I was pretty
upset and I didn't want to come home. And then
it wasn't until my uncle's just told me, like, don't
waste your time here. You need to get back to Perth,
like he got footy to play. I had lost track

(53:06):
of the fixture. I didn't know where we were at.
And it was just before a week or so before
finals and we're going alright. And I came back and
played a couple of finals because I did convince me
to come home. I didn't want to come home. And
then we made the Grand Final that year. But that
was a blur. That was all a blur, Like I
think it's pretty selfish with me. I said it many times.
It was the Grand Finals, a time where as a
child that's your boyhood, dreamed to make it to a

(53:27):
grand father, that Grand Final parades meant to be the
biggest thing, you know, before playing the actual game. And
for me, I didn't want to be there. I remember
I stepped in my I did the Grand Final parade.
It was a bit of a blur. But then my
brother came to my hotel room. I didn't have any family, like,
I had no family over, so it was just my
brother came across. There's just the two of us and
we sat in my hotel room and talk. We cried.

(53:48):
We didn't sleep, like I probably had two hours, maybe
an hour and a half, two hours sleep before the
Grand Final. And I feel I sometimes get angry when
you talk about mental demons and things like that. I
still feel a bit selfish for that, because I'm like, man,
I didn't have the ideal preparation. But then again, who's
to know that someone else wasn't anxious in their room
about the game and didn't sleep well at all? So yeah,

(54:10):
I didn't have the greatest preparation. And it probably wasn't
until we lost that Grand Final to Hawthorne, and probably
wasn't too asked that that I realized. You know, I
just felt this wave of emotion come upon me and
I sat in the change in his crying. I think,
you know, losing I lost a cousin earlier in that year,
you know, we had to bury him here in Perth,
and then having to bury my mum and then lost

(54:31):
the loss of a grand fine Weber. Sitting there, I
think that just you know, all come upon me at
one time, and yeah, that was probably the saddest time
I'd ever been in my life. And I had to
find a new way to live, you know, find a
new reason to do things, like a new why. I
think the biggest thing in my life was why I
did things was to impress my mum or to help

(54:51):
her live a better life stay because he sacrificed so
much for us, as when will children. So my biggest goal,
on my biggest drive was to you know, to give
her and the rest of my family better life. So
that court sort of went out the window and you
had to find new reasons and new avenues to you know,
to keep myself motivated to do certain things, because sometimes

(55:12):
I wake up whether it was worth playing footy anymore,
whether it was whether it was worth doing what I do, like,
you know, what's what's what's the point of doing it
if if I haven't my mum there? But I had
to remember I still got siblings out there, and you
know they've got kids as well. So I guess now
nowadays it's just you know, reverted to doing it for them.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
I saw your post on social media today Today would
have been her birthday, Is that right?

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah, Mum's birthday today. Yeah, Mum's birthday. Yeah. It's always
a tough time. I think any masks or any milestones
in the calendar, birthdays Mother's Day, Christmas things like that, Yeah,
are a reminder, And the first few years was pretty tough.
It still is tough, but I've probably learned ways to
cope with it. Like I think the first two years,

(55:55):
I found I was so upset, Like I wouldn't go
to training sometimes on those days. But yeah, it doesn't
get any easier. You just find coping mechanisms to get
through the days.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah, what are your coping mechanisms.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
I don't know. I kicked myself a lot, so I
just sit in the room and I just talk to myself.
I have a good relationship with my mirror. I do
the old mirror test and I talk to myself. Yeah,
I don't know. I'll sit there. I don't like to
bring my stress on my problems on the others, Like
I'm one to help people. That's probably my biggest downfall.
I don't like. I don't open up too much because

(56:29):
I don't like to. I don't want to just because
I might be having a shit day. I don't want
to make someone else's day shit. So I'll just deal
with it, like I've learned to deal with stuff in
the past. Like I don't know. Everyone says you should
go and talk and do things and that. But I'm
not a big one for that. I'm more just you know,
yeah you're sad, but you still got two feet and
the heartbeat you live and like, oh, well, get over it,
move forward. Yeah. I know it's a bad mentality. I

(56:50):
go out there preaching, you know, open up, don't bottle
things up. But yeah, I'm a bit different. More differently.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
You've got a shrine in your house for your mum,
don't attribute for your mum.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Yeah, as soon as you walk in, Yeah, as soon
as you walk in, there's a big shrine, just some
photos and flowers and whatnot, candles and that. Yeah. I
think for me, it's just a telling reminder when I
go home every day that like, like I said, I've
got a nice house and I'm not ashamed to say that,
but I think all the hard work and sacrifices she'd
made for us, I'm able to do that, and I'm
able to do the job I do every day. And

(57:23):
I think walking into that house every day, this just
reminds me and go, you know what, this is what
I'm doing it for. This is what I did it for,
and this is who I'm you know, who I am
and who I was always have been trying to make proud.
So yeah, there's no hiding. As soon as you open
the front door, straight there and you kind of you
got your head down because you're embarrassed or you're looking
at the pictures straight in the eye. So yeah, I enjoyed.

(57:46):
I enjoy having it right there.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
That's beautiful. The next couple of years, I mean, you
talk about the losing ground final and everything you went
through there, but the next couple of years you're also
cop to acls and missed pretty much the best part
of the next few years. How hard was that to
navigate your way through?

Speaker 1 (58:07):
I see, were hard. I think just compounded, you know,
exacerbated by what had happened, you know, the previous years.
You know, the first one was was sad and I
was upset, But the second one that hit home, I
was like, man, I've done one I've ever done too,
But no perspective. I always say it. People probably sick
of me saying it. Perspective has been a bigger one
for me. Like I've always put things into perspective and

(58:28):
know that there is a worst life out there, and
I think that's why I traveled to certain places like
like I said, I lived in some dodgy areas. I've
done some things where I've been able to see people
living a pretty hard life, and I revert back to
seeing that, you know, my village last style and people
got nothing, people struggling that, but they still find a
way to get through. And oh well, and there's no

(58:49):
one to blame for my knees. And like someone's come
and run me over in a car crash or anything
like that, Like I've jumped up and not been able
to land. Probably his my own fault, so I can't
blame anyone, like I didn't do no one else did
my need to me. But you yeah, well I'd got
to learn a land better, so I yeah, it's not
the worst thing. Like people will talk about how hard
it is and what not. Yeah, it is hard, and
there is a long journey back, but it's just the
patience of the whole thing, Like it's a year long injury.

(59:12):
The patience and finding things to keep your brain occupied
was probably the hardest part. But like I said, I
wasn't dead. I'm still living, so still living and breathing.
Like you can't cry about it, Like, well you can
cry about it, but don't cry for nothing. Cry and
get something out of it's my biggest thing. Like it
was tough, but it's just a knee, Like, oh, well,
get over it.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Were there any moments where you caught yourself and went
this is this is crap?

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Oh yeah, when you got to crawl, when you got
to plan out your day on how you're going to
get to the toilet or how you're going to shower
because you've got to crawl around the house to get
to the frigi or things like that. Like I couldn't
walk because they took my hamstring out of my other
leg as well. So when you're crawling and you feel
like you're in the army and you're trying to get somewhere,
I'll never forget this. I feel weird sharing this, but
my uncle had just moved back from the Netherlands to

(59:57):
Perth and he's got a Dutch wife and she's the
make fresh bread all the time. And him and his
wife would come around and they used to bring me
food like bread every couple of days or things like that,
and they gave him a spare key, or they took
the spare key from the front. Didn't life anyway, I
had this. I had a process, like my bathroom downstairs
is about thirty meters away, and I had a process

(01:00:19):
where I'd leave my clothes next to them where I
slept in the lund room because I couldn't get upstairs,
and then I'd crawl all the way to the shower.
It's a lot. It was like a two hour process.
Have a shower laying down. I've got one of those
showers we can take the head off it and wash yourself.
And then I'd have to crawl back, like in the nude,
across back the kitchen floor, all the way back to
the laundry to get changed. And it took so long.

(01:00:41):
And I remember just this is where I felt that
the lowers the lows. I just hit this Dutch voice
at the door going hello, Nick, I watch your bread,
and like, I don't even know that's actually talks. But
so my uncle and his wife were out the front door,
and all I could hear was the key like opening,
and I'm laying there naked, half crawling across the floor
trying to get back, and I'm like, no, not come

(01:01:02):
in here. I've never felt like the biggest piece of
shit in my life. I was like, I didn't want
to see them. I didn't want them seeing me at
my at my worst, and yeah, you know, like have
you seen everybody loves Raymond? You know how? You know
how the guys kind of is it. Frank and Marina,
the dad and the mom had to come over and
they like, he has to dive across and turn the
music off and get to the front door. And then
at the end they just put their hands through into that.

(01:01:24):
That's pretty much what happened. They opened the door and
let's just so it was a pretty sight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
So they did find you there, they did, but I just.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Had to roll over and yeah, oh yeah, it wasn't great.
It wasn't great. But that's probably the hardest part, not
being able to do things I really wanted to do.
And I hate just sitting still. Sometimes I like to
go and do things, even if it's just mop the
floors to do something. I hate being vulnerable. I hate
being vulnerable. So to someone for someone to see me

(01:01:52):
at that point in my.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Life was how did they react.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
I was just pissed off that they took my spare key.
I was like, gave you the right And when I'm
screaming no, don't still open the door like it's fair.
Gol Any want their bread. I don't even like bread anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
I shouldn't be laughing because the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Hardest times in my life that you're laughing, like you're
just a little throwaway anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Of all the stories you've told me over the years,
you've never told me that one before.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I think it's a story I really want to tell.
I've had some bad situations. I'm not going to go anymore.
There we go, yep, perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
So you end up working your ass off, let's be honest,
and you make it through to another Grand Final in
twenty eighteen and you're not out there because you've done
your a cl that second time. How hard was that
watching that Grand Final when the boys you've worked so

(01:02:49):
hard with are in it and you're not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
That was tough. That was really tough because, yeah, if
you gave me a couple more months, I would have
been able to play. I reckon. So knowing that, like
if I just freshly done it, I would have been
like fair enough. But because I knew I was still
half a chance, I was aming an R and going
I wonder if they let them play. Yeah, So that
was hard. But I had a coaching role at the time,
so it wasn't too bad. But also there was guys
around my age group who missed out as well. So

(01:03:14):
Eric McKenzie was one, he'd been there for ten plus years.
Andrew Gaff was the same, and Brad Shepard. There's a
lot of other guys, but those key guys in particular
had been around for, you know, the majority of my
footy career. So to have other guys around you going
through the same thing, you could almost lean on each
other and be upset. But yeah, it was tough. It
was tough to watch. I remember I was happy when

(01:03:36):
the boys won it, like I was really really happy,
but had a little cry, had a little cry and
the change ms of my own in the corner. I
remember one of our physios. She probably doesn't know this,
but she came across and I was putting my suit
on and I was putting my jacket on, and I
was crying facing the wall, and we all had given
this big bottle of champagne, and she came in to
ask me if I needed anything, and I was crying

(01:03:56):
so much, but I didn't want her to see me
crying because I hate people seeing me weak, so it's
not weak to crist just to everyone knows. I don't
like people seeing me cry sometimes, so I like, I
like shook the bottle of champagne and try to scull it,
so then it like frosted my mouth and my nose
and made my eyes tearing, and I was like, oh, sorry,
so I just drank champagne because she thought my eyes
are watering because of the champagne. But really I was

(01:04:18):
crying because I didn't win the game final. But I
moved on. I learned, like I find myself going to
and from So after the Grand Fire and the boys
were on stage, I went out there with Brad Shepherd
and sat in the oval. It was it was pitch black.
No one else was out there. They were all getting
on stage getting presented. I don't know what they were doing.
They'd already get their trophies and their medals and whatnot.
And I just felt like jumping on one of those

(01:04:38):
fireworks and just been like, you know what, blow me up.
I don't care. I'm done with this dumb footy. Like
it was a tough time, but I don't know perspective.
I think that's the biggest thing, Like, yeah, I didn't
win it, but well you hurt yourself so too bad. Like, yes,
it is the biggest thing, but sometimes it's not the
biggest thing. And I think it also helps drive me
to get better and you know, want to win one.

(01:04:58):
So everyone else's got different answers on that part of things,
But for me, I don't know. Yeah I lost, but
did I die? I know. Look, me and little Shad
I used to always say that to each other, but
did you die? And I think that's as stupid as
that sounds. That's kept me mentally saying and got me
through some of those tough times because no, I didn't die.

(01:05:19):
Yes I lost, but everyone loses in life. Just don't
keep losing. Yeah, it was tough, and the boys joke
about it all the time. I used to get jealous.
I get jealous of everyone's a little well. I got
my mate to come and tatoo all the boys at
my house, all the little premiership tatoos on their angles
and whatnot. That was hard to watch, but same time
I was happy for him. They did all the hard work.
I'd probably a little bit grumpy with some of the

(01:05:40):
young boys at one one because I was like, you
guys have been here like one year or something, and
you've already got a premiership. But you know, there's some
great players who've gone through in the past and never
won one, and they've been there for fifteen or so years.
So sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you make your own luck.
But yeah, I did my a cl No one did
it to me. Does it drive you, Yeah, definitely, Yeah,

(01:06:03):
it drives me every single day I got to training. Yeah,
otherwise I reckon I would have given it up by now. Yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
If you won that flag year old, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
No, I think I would be hungry for another one.
I like, but I just probably would have been a
bit slower with getting the training. I think I wouldn't
be as I wouldn't be as punctured, would not I
still be punctured in saying that I was late to
hear that you were.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
I was going to say that earlier the phone call.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I was in the driver, I was here. I was
just on my phone dealing with outside problems, school books
for the children. Appreciate holding my hand.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
So after everything you've been through, there's I mean, there's
so much there. How much did it mean to you
that last year when COVID is happening and you're in
a bubble and thirty years of age that you managed
to play some of your best foot and win the
club BNF. How much did that mean to you? Given everything?

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Oh, I think, big, bigger pitcher. It probably just I
think I was set up for COVID, like I was
prepared mentally and physically for COVID because I'd been through
some stuff, like I'd seen some shit in the past,
like I've done done the time and seen things. And
I think a COVID year was, like I said it was,
it was the norm to me, so it was something
I was comfortable with. Win in the BNF was a

(01:07:16):
good way to I guess, top off the year, and
you know, it was a good little accolade to have,
you know when I will be to look back on
at the end of my career. But I don't know.
I don't really get too fussy about those sort of things,
like if I want to, yes, it's great to have
as a good honor, But at the same time, if
I lost it or someone else wanted, I'd be just
as happy for them. So I was just happy to

(01:07:37):
be paying footy, like I think I found myself at
times winging about, you know, being in a harbor and
doing things. But then you look back and go, you
know what, we're the only ones traveling at the moment.
We're in the Gold Coast. Everyone else is stuck in
w A. We're staying in a fancy golf resort. We
get to go to the beach like we're in the
Gold Coast. Like it's we're getting fed. Get we still
have a job, Like we still we're still getting paid

(01:07:57):
them up be only half the pay, but we're still
getting paid something. And we're kicking the ball around. Like yeah,
it is tough in certain aspects, but not the worst thing.
Like we're still living our living our lives over here,
so and people were dying around the world. I think
that's probably what, you know, probably capped off my ear
and made me really knuckle down and go, you know what,

(01:08:18):
concentrate your footy because you're one of the lucky few
still get to do their job. So I think that
helped me play some consistent footy and my body felt good,
My body felt right, And yeah, it's probably a testament
to medical team because they managed me and looked after
me really well throughout the year. But still chasing that
elusive Grand Final win. So yes, it was nice to

(01:08:39):
get the best and fairest, but I'd rather the other
metal around my neck. Yeah, hopefully one day, hopefully this year.
What would it mean, I mean the world to me.
Top It'd a cap off everything. I think it'd make
all the you know I think about the keep reverting
back to these bus schedules and bus time tables. But
it'll make all those trips late at night, the training,

(01:09:00):
all those extra things I've had to do, all those
times I've had to argue with my mum for footy
fees or the reasoning why football is going to pay
off when I'm an older person, which was the hardest
thing of it. I always hear Basha Hoully talk about
with having a sneak out to play footy because his
parents never agree with it. I was in the same boat,
like my mom was like I bring you to this
country and you want to and you want to play

(01:09:20):
this stupid game, Like go and get a real job,
be a doctor, do something like that. But then you
slowly realize how good footy is and you know, networking
and bringing good things so not only yourself but to
your family as well. And I think all those hardships
and all those tough times, having a Premiership medal will
make it all worthwhile.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
And just finally, you spoke at the very beginning about
growing up and not seeing anyone like you playing the
game that you've turned out to love. How much does
it mean to you to know that Now little kids
that look like you get to see you and know
it's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Yeah, it's good, Like I think it's amazing, Like, oh,
like I always get the odd football that comes up
and says, you know, what, you inspire me to play footy.
You know, some of these kids that I play with now,
I went and visited them at school and spoke to them,
like some of my teammates now, I've got photos with
them when they were in primary school and I was
just starting out my footy career at West Coast and
you know, they were like, oh, I wanted to be

(01:10:16):
rockman like you. And then I see the multicultural kids
come through and you know, and they've you know, drawn
from my story what they can and made their own pathway.
So that's always inspiring. And I think the biggest thing
I know, it's got me in trouble, it's gotten people
in trouble over the years. But book week, like, when
I see kids dress up like me in the right manner,
it's always a humbling experience.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
You go.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
You know, they could dress up as Superman or Batman
or a Fortnite character or something like that, but they
choose to dress up like Nick Knat Like. It's yeah.
Never in my wilder streams I would have imagined that
and envisioned that. So yeah, I'm so glad that I've
been able to have the career I've had this far.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
I don't know if I've got a right to say this,
but I'm bloody proud of you, having seen it from
the very beginning. I think you've become such a great
bloke and I'm very privileged to say a good mate,
and I really appreciate everything that you've said today, but
also our chats over the years, I've appreciated it. So
I really do hope, even as a Freemantle supporter, you
do get that flat.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Thank you very much, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
Time, Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking.
Another episode will drop on Wednesday. If you liked thisp
with Nick, you may also enjoy the chat with Adam
true Law from season one. Check it out Don't Forget.
If you like the podcast, hit subscribe, follow at Ordinarily
Underscore Speaking on Instagram and at Narrowly Underscore Meadows on Twitter,

(01:11:48):
and tell your mates. And thanks again to musician Woody
Pitney for his track love Me Like You Want to
Be Loved.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
Tell me that you want a meld. Just end me
like you wanna mead because I'm competraet the fire and
the end me like you Water Mead

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