July 21, 2019 • 28 mins
A teenage motorcyclist finds the bloodied body of a young, married mother beside a dark stretch of road. It is Summer 1978, in the tiny Queensland town of Sarina. The woman's name is Margaret Kirstenfeldt. How did this popular, much-loved girl from country Jandowae end up here?
Credits:
Presenter / Investigative Crime Journalist - Paula Doneman
Producer / Writer - Sally Eeles
Sound Design - Marc Wright
TV reporter - Mackenzie Ravn
Graphics - Jason Blandford
With thanks to:
The team at 7 News Brisbane, Annette Caltabiano, Georgia Done, Letitia Wallace, Susan Bush, Alex Wright Media, The Daily Mercury and Mackay City Council Library.
Music Credits:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
A teenage motorcyclist turns under Serena Beach Road. It's late
just before eleven on a Friday night, near the end
of summer February tenth, nineteen seventy eight, in the small
sugar cane town of Serena in Australia's North Queensland. Eighteen
(00:44):
year old Dale Payne has just been visiting his girlfriend.
He approaches a house with the lights on and front
door wide open, but no one around. Then, in the
flicker of his head, like he sees something on the roadside.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mom dies violently in
a small Queensland town. From murder to suicide and back again,
expert opinions have swung wildly. Who killed Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows.
(02:20):
This is Pendulum Episode one.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I'm Paula Donovan. I've been a crime journalist for more
than twenty five years in my home state of Queensland, Australia.
It's been four decades since the body of Margaret Ann
Kirstenfelt was found. A trail of blood led from the
(03:04):
front steps of her rented fibroa shack to the long,
thick carpet of grass of her neighbour's lawn. Margaret's right
arm was caught beneath her body, her left arm outstretched.
Her red mini dress was drenched in blood and bunched
(03:24):
around her hips. Her throat had been cut. There were
signs of sexual interference. The young wife of Malcolm Kurstenfeld,
mum to toddler Colin and baby Leslie, and short term
(03:47):
resident of Serena, had just turned twenty one. Police attending
the Beach Road address late on the night of February tenth,
nineteen seventy eight, believed margaret death had all the hallmarks
of rape and murder.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
The Sunday Sun February twelve, nineteen seventy eight, mum murdered,
but baby lives. A baby girl aged seven months escaped
death when her mother was brutally knifed by a mystery
killer at Serena. The mother staggered from the house with
a knife wound in her throat and died on a
neighboring lawn. A large squad of police from the.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Camp then the pendulum swung. Within days, authorities believed Margaret's
horrific injuries were self inflicted.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
The Daily Mercury Monday February thirteen, nineteen seventy eight, detectives
investigating the death of a young mother of two at
Serena on Friday night, a following several lines of inquiry
following a post mortem examination, it was at first thought
she was a murder victim, but detectives are now not
certain of this. The woman Margaret Anne Kurstenfeld.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Statement of Milton Bill Hassenkam, Detective SAR first Class, Mackay
Criminal Investigation Bureau. In the overall, I'm inclined to the
belief that the deceased died as a result of wounds
inflicted by her own hand. This belief is supported by
the evidence available and the medical evidence of the post mortem.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Fast forward to two thousand and two, Queensland's most senior detective,
Peters Wendell's becomes an Assistant Commissioner. He then forms the
cold Case unit within the Homicide Squad. He was haunted
by two cases from the nineteen seventies. They shared similarities.
One of them was Margaret Kirstenfelt. A new investigation into
(05:43):
Margaret's death is undertaken and this time rules out suicide.
The pendulum swings back once again. The evidence points to
Margaret being murdered. I first became aware of Margaret's case
(06:04):
in two thousand and four while researching my book on
Queensland's first serial killer, Leonard John Fraser.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Had been convicted of the rape and murder of nine
year old schoolgirl Kira Steinhart.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I'll reveal that connection later on John Jordan. He never
be released. I need to view Margaret's family, detectives, and
retired investigators for a feature article I wrote while doing
the crime rounds for a newspaper I worked at in
two thousand and eight. Margaret's case is unique if you
(06:38):
can imagine the gamut of emotions experience when being told
at first that your loved one was raped and murdered,
only to learn days later her horrific injuries were self inflicted.
The finding that Margaret took her own life was something
that never sat well with her family. Nearly three decades later,
(07:03):
when Queensland Police delivered the news they were reopening Margaret's
case as a murder investigation, it confirmed the family's long
held suspicions, but brought with it another maelstrom of emotion.
Ever since I met Margaret's mother, Bunty and her family,
this case has intrigued me. Violet Bunty Willett lives in
(07:27):
jan Dowie, a tiny place on the western downs of
Queensland known for its farming and grazing land. It's about
eight hundred kilometers from Serena, where Margaret died. The town's
population has never really risen above fourteen hundred people and
(07:47):
is now home to many retirees. Bunty lives in the
same low set house where she raised her children and grandchildren.
So we're heading out to day interview her family, some
of whom have traveled from inter state to spend the
day with us in the hope that we can get
(08:09):
to the bottom of what happened to Margaret. Margaret Kurstenfeld
was the eldest child of Bunty and David willet She
(08:31):
was born on January twenty third, nineteen fifty seven, in Chinchilla,
not far from jin Dowie. Two years later came sister Deborah,
then in nineteen sixty brother Greg, who tragically died as
a young child in a truck accident that his parents survived.
(08:52):
In nineteen sixty four, Brian was born six years later,
another sister, Judith, before the youngest Susan arrived in nineteen
seventy four. She would have been around four years old
when Margaret died and doesn't remember much about her. The
(09:12):
three surviving daughters have all left Gen Dowie, but Brian,
now a Fly and Flyout worker, and his wife live
with Bunty. Father David, died in December nineteen ninety two.
Bunty is in her early eighties. She wants some answers
(09:32):
and peace before it's too late. Hello, Hi, Bunty, It's
Paula Domovan. How are you?
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (09:44):
I'm not mad?
Speaker 8 (09:45):
How are you good?
Speaker 9 (09:46):
Good? Good?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Where leaving this arrived in Dolby? You were about to
head out to you at Jen Dowie, Yeah, okay. As
well as Bunty, I'll be speaking with Margaret's brother Brian,
and her sister Deb who's traveled up from New South Wales.
I'll also be meeting with Leslie, Margaret's daughter, who was
only seven months old and sleeping in her cot just
(10:08):
meet his away when her mother died, but that interview
is for a later episode.
Speaker 9 (10:14):
Are we on the right road?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I'm traveling with my friend in Neette, who was also
my producer.
Speaker 10 (10:20):
So what are you hoping to achieve today, Paula.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Out here, I'm hoping that Margaret's family will be able
to paint a picture of who Margaret was, to bring
her to life, to tell me what they feel happened
to her, because so many other people have made determinations
(10:44):
about Margaret who didn't really know her, in terms of
the coroner, the investigating police, who were all looking at
Margaret from a different perspective, an angle, And I really
want to get the family to dig deep as much
as they can and as painful as it will be
(11:05):
to talk about who Margaret was and if that then
can give us any insight as to who may have
killed her. Tell us about the drive out here today.
What are your impressions of the place that we're going to.
It's very hot, it's not very hot, but it's in
its were you know, around the early thirties, and very
(11:26):
dry flat lands, not what you call mountain country at all,
like a lot of planes, lanch farming, rural community. So
Margaret would have grown up here. Yes, Margaret did grow
up here, and what one of her siblings originally described
as a three pub town that didn't have a lot
of variety, she ended up wanting to leave, couldn't find
(11:50):
a job that suited. She was someone who you'd like
to you know, party, have fun, but before life, and
I don't think she found out In her hometown of
jim Dowie. She was a country girl. Liked horses, she did,
she loved horses. Her family couldn't afford to buy a horse.
They sort of lived on a pretty tight financial budget.
(12:10):
There wasn't room for much, like new clothes or anything.
Bunty taught her daughters how to make their own clothes,
so Margaret was always in Margaret did actually love fashion,
a bit of a clothes horse and would like to
make her own clothes. Love to dance, would go to
every dance possible that the town held, whether it be
a hall dance, school dance, dance.
Speaker 9 (12:31):
At the pub.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
She would go.
Speaker 9 (12:42):
Okay, yeah, hello, Hi.
Speaker 11 (13:02):
Had lunch.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The family gathers in the kitchen, making and eating salad rolls.
Bunty's homemade scones are stacked up on the side of
the bench. A lot of furniture has been packed up
because a new floor is about to be laid in
the old house. Brian spends much of his time upgrading
his mum's home since I first called Bunty a few
(13:28):
weeks back. It's clear there have been family discussions. Thankfully
they have all agreed to be interviewed for the podcast.
They've been dusting off old photo albums and revisiting memories,
some very painful ones. For the first time, they are
sharing Margaret's diary and letters with me. So how did
(13:50):
you come to be living in jen Dowie? Did you marry?
Speaker 9 (13:53):
Married?
Speaker 11 (13:54):
Married David here we meet at the dancers and that
sort of thing stacks between Bray and Laura, and then
got married and we lived just out of town and
we've had quite a few ships are instance. Then came
here and I said I wouldn't move again unless I
(14:15):
was in a little wooden lot.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
So Margaret was your firstborn?
Speaker 9 (14:19):
Tell me about.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
Her firstborn years. She was firstborn and she was always
sort of skinny, do you hard to remember?
Speaker 11 (14:26):
I think that's what we went to Melbourne for for
about eighteen months. I think she went first went to
school down there Sunshine Norves.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
How do you describe her personality?
Speaker 11 (14:39):
She mightn't have been outgoing like the younger ones were,
might have been a little bit more reserved.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Buntie finds it hard to concentrate and cast her mind
back so far. Excuse me, She gets a bit frustrated
with herself. I just can't see. She has lost two
of her children and says she's blocked out a lot.
But while her memories have faced, the pain of her
loss has not dulled.
Speaker 10 (15:02):
Dear Mom and Dad, I have a few minutes to spare.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
An old letter Bunty wrote to her parents around nineteen seventy,
soon after Judy was born, gives a small insight to
life at that time.
Speaker 10 (15:14):
We've named the baby Judith May. She's doing quite well
and seems to be growing fast. I miss Bryan's first
day at school. They said he was funny with excitement
to go to school. He also had a fight with
some other little fellow on the first day. Since then,
he's had a couple more. He rather likes school and
I have no trouble getting him off to it. Margaret
(15:35):
seems to like school a bit better now too, with
the different teacher for the different subject seems to be
more interesting for her.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Margaret left school at the age of fifteen.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
Going well so Margaret.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Growing up, she was the eldest, and you mentioned that
she was a little bit quieter than the other kid.
Speaker 11 (15:53):
Yeah, at home and that, but she did get out.
She did try to sneak out on not to go
to Adean's. Just tell us it wasn't to go, but
anyr D. I met and followed her up and brought
her back home again, went opened the hall with me.
I'll clothes on. It wasn't very nice, but no, but
(16:14):
I wouldn't been a bit surprised. She snuggy out again too,
after I went to sleep.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
It's my great pleasure now.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
In nineteen seventy three, Margaret made her debut at the
local Debutante Ball. There are photos of her wearing a long,
demure white dress, white gloves to almost her elbows, a
posy in her hands, her dark hair piled on top
(16:40):
of her head bee hive style, with a ringlet on
either side of her face. Some of the pitches are
badly water damaged, but you can make out a shy smile.
She looks pretty happy with herself. In one image, she's
been escorted about a hall by a shaggy haired teen
(17:01):
in a black suit and bow tie.
Speaker 12 (17:05):
Dear Grandma, thank you for the material, and I'll.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Pass around this time. Margaret wrote a letter to her grandmother.
Speaker 12 (17:12):
I have a job in Dolby and board there and
go home for weekends. I work at Tracy's, always doing
all the office work. There isn't all that much bookwork,
so I have to take something along so I don't
get bored. The family is all well, apart from a
few colds and wogs going around, lots of love Margaret.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
In her late teens, Margaret studied for a while to
become a nurse, worked at a local bar, and tried
to get a driver's license, but failed the test a
couple of times.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Tell me what it was like growing up with Margaret.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Deborah calls a domineering big sister. I've got to know
a bit more. How much difference was there between you?
Speaker 7 (17:49):
Two years difference? And yes, we were the typical sibling.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Sisters that aught and scratched their way through every part
of our life. Extremely different personalities.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
She was always for a bit of fun, she was
always about to be adventurous.
Speaker 7 (18:06):
She loved school, she'd loved to look good and just
any joy to hell at the time. She just wouldn't
be happy to just sit still.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
She'd have to be doing things, Whereas I was probably
one who'd be sitting in the corner with the books
on there and she couldn't go on as I went.
So the arrangement was that you were coming, whether you
like it or not. In the Chinese burn, it would
go with.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It, or we need the anchor and the storm.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
Yeah, they probably thought that I could give her a
little bit of sensibility with her choice. I guess yeah.
I was always a sensible one. I'd be the one
putting the careful thought.
Speaker 7 (18:44):
In there whilst I come on this do it. There
are some several times but she was just such a
strong character that I was overwhelmed by her or not.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Sometimes you would have to cover for her. That you
would go to movie together and she would leave you
for the duration of the movie. Then you would have
to give her a summary. But can you tell me
a bit about that?
Speaker 8 (19:03):
Yes, I've heard of girlfriends and sometimes just sneak out
the side door. You wouldn't see them again to wear
so you'd have this big humbling of what happened, what
was the key points in the.
Speaker 6 (19:14):
Story, all around the walk back, So we'd do that.
I did get a little tired of it after a
few episodes of that. I remember one time, though I'm
outside the picture of here, there's no one there.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
The whole place is shut down. There's nobody left in
the street.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
And you were about three called an hour late coming home,
and I was not prepared to wear at this time.
Speaker 7 (19:36):
I walked home alone, so I didn't have a clue
where she was.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Margaret always wanted to wear the latest fashion.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
She really did.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
Never felt satisfied that we couldn't afford to have a lot.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Of things and do a lot of things, and.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Buy the silly shoes or whatever she just wanted to
and she'd make it a big song in dance until she
got them.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Her family couldn't afford, so Margaret would pay items off
at fifty cents a week at the local store, or
make the clothes herself.
Speaker 12 (20:08):
At present, I am knitting a jumper and a blouse
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Her diary and letters are sprinkled with references to her
diy projects.
Speaker 12 (20:17):
Most of the day I spent finishing my top and
repairing my long black skirts so I could wear them.
Some crocheting cotton to make a Bikinian hat to be lined.
If we made judy'shult neck dress and my strap black
top and both Walden to the pictures.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
In early nineteen seventy five. According to her diary, Margaret
was spending a lot of her time with friends, mucking about,
having a few beers. She'd applied for unemployment benefits. She
go to the picture theater, do our jobs about the house,
go fishing, swim at the local pool, or go dancing.
(20:55):
And according to her sister deb she was becoming quite
well known about out.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
But she did enjoy looking good. She loved to be
a bit of a center of attention. She liked a
bit of drama and she enjoyed it.
Speaker 7 (21:14):
She always needed a company, did she like male company?
Always always felt comfortable in our company.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
And that was something that was always do even as
a very young girl who was just searching out who
she was, trying to be, who she was where she
could in this world.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And for you, how did the way she lived life
impact on you? As her younger sister.
Speaker 7 (21:36):
I was expected to be the same as her.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
So any boyfriends that she had with or people around
who saw how she where, they expected that I would
be the same.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Can you elaborate a bit on that? Oh?
Speaker 8 (21:49):
I can actually give you bactly one of my husband
act He thought I was like Margaret when he took
me out for the first time.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
So I spent the first hour or two friending of
arms from blabbing boobs, because that's what he thought that
this pair of girls did, and he didn't realize that.
Speaker 7 (22:07):
That wasn't how I liked my relationships.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
He and I guess that sort of summed it up
that people would not be taking time to get to
know me.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
They was thinking it would be a happy and easy lad.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So Margaret was quite sexually active here. How does that
go over in a small town, particularly back in the seventies.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
She was labeled pretty well and was well known the boys,
which is kind of sad and you look back on
it now because she really was just being brief, but
in those days it was very much brander.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Indeed, eighteen year old Margaret's diary is filled with boys' names, Peter, Paul, Lindsey, Wayne,
to name just some. Often though they are associated with
innocent pursuits, going crave, going to a dance, to the river,
the driving, or the pitchers.
Speaker 12 (23:04):
Went to the pitchures and from interval on I played
around with Wayne less and I went downtown to watch
the drags and ended up getting home late and Les
spent the day drinking with Colin at first, and then
with Wayne and Ivan. I had a bit of fun
and got to bed after three. I ended up drinking
with Lindsey, but I don't remember much of the night
(23:25):
because I got a bit under the weather.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
On occasion, she would call out a boy who'd annoyed her.
Speaker 12 (23:32):
Ross kept trying to get me to be with him
and play around at the pitches, but I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Margaret was definitely a young girl, giddy on life, having fun, socializing.
She was easily flattered. She was also soon to be married.
In nineteen seventy four, aged only seventeen, Margaret became engaged
(23:59):
to a man, des Cat, who she'd met when he
worked in town, but he'd since moved away for a job.
Theirs was a long distance romance.
Speaker 8 (24:11):
It was a gentleman that was living here, working here,
and somehow or other they've gotten together.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
He was an older man. He was a lovely gentleman,
very strong Christian background. She seemed to have been really
happy with that. I was struggling to picture her in
that relationship. It just seemed so different I've seen it
with that.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
There are photos of the couple smiling and well dressed
at their engagement party. However, they didn't seem to see
each other often, and, judging by Margaret's diary entries, often
missed each other's phone calls.
Speaker 12 (24:52):
Got home at nine am and missed Deser's call. Des
Rang and I talked to him for about fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Even so, Margaret was in love with the idea of
getting married. On the front page of her nineteen seventy
five diary, Margaret had written the names and phone numbers
of mister and Missus w Cat and mister Vince Cat,
proudly referring to them as her future parents and future
brother in law. On the seventh of September that year,
(25:22):
she'd pre written one year engaged, but by that stage
her relationship with Dez was long over.
Speaker 12 (25:34):
Saturday, March one, nineteen seventy five, Dez was here when
I woke up, as he arrived about nine o'clock. Later
on in the day, des and I had a talk
and we broke it up as things were not working out.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
By June, Margaret was writing about Malcolm Kirstenfeldt.
Speaker 12 (25:53):
Malcolm came late as he thought I would have been
out yesterday boy. Was I glad to see him.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
He visited her at home.
Speaker 12 (26:01):
Malcolm came around that night but was unable to go
out due to just coming home. Malcolm invited myself in
Debs to a party at Sullivan's place at Redlands.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
She called at quits with other boys.
Speaker 12 (26:14):
But went and saw David so I could tell him
it was all off. At first, I couldn't be alone
with him for me to tell him. But what made
it worse was he was Randy's anything and I had
some trouble.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
By September, Margaret and Malcolm were staying at each other's homes.
She wrote of helping missus Kirstenfeld around the house having
long chats with Malcolm. In fact, on what would have
been the night of her one year engagement anniversary to Deaz, she.
Speaker 12 (26:42):
Wrote, Sunday the seventh of September nineteen seventy five, Malcolm
came around at seven point thirty and stayed the night again.
I'll miss him through night duty at work.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
But things did not go as she planned. Next time,
I'm pendulum Margaret's life in this arena.
Speaker 8 (27:17):
I think you're so understanding staring.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And Malcolm Cursenfeldt speaks out for the first time. I'll
be talking to her that one so that I said
that I would be back up on that following weekend
and shut us go and work things out. If you
have information about the Margaret Kurstenfeld case, please let us know.
(27:47):
Email us at Pendulum podcast at gmail dot com, or
go to seven US dot com dot AU. Forward Slash
Pendulum presenter and executive producer Paula Donovan, Writer and producer
(28:09):
Sally Eels. Sound design Mark Wright, graphics Jason Blandford, Transcripts
Susan Bush. Our theme music is the Clock Is Ticking
by dark Org Music. See our show notes for all
(28:31):
music credits. With thanks to seven Years Brisbane
A teenage motorcyclist turns under Serena Beach Road. It's late
just before eleven on a Friday night, near the end
of summer February tenth, nineteen seventy eight, in the small
sugar cane town of Serena in Australia's North Queensland. Eighteen
(00:44):
year old Dale Payne has just been visiting his girlfriend.
He approaches a house with the lights on and front
door wide open, but no one around. Then, in the
flicker of his head, like he sees something on the roadside.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mom dies violently in
a small Queensland town. From murder to suicide and back again,
expert opinions have swung wildly. Who killed Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows.
(02:20):
This is Pendulum Episode one.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I'm Paula Donovan. I've been a crime journalist for more
than twenty five years in my home state of Queensland, Australia.
It's been four decades since the body of Margaret Ann
Kirstenfelt was found. A trail of blood led from the
(03:04):
front steps of her rented fibroa shack to the long,
thick carpet of grass of her neighbour's lawn. Margaret's right
arm was caught beneath her body, her left arm outstretched.
Her red mini dress was drenched in blood and bunched
(03:24):
around her hips. Her throat had been cut. There were
signs of sexual interference. The young wife of Malcolm Kurstenfeld,
mum to toddler Colin and baby Leslie, and short term
(03:47):
resident of Serena, had just turned twenty one. Police attending
the Beach Road address late on the night of February tenth,
nineteen seventy eight, believed margaret death had all the hallmarks
of rape and murder.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
The Sunday Sun February twelve, nineteen seventy eight, mum murdered,
but baby lives. A baby girl aged seven months escaped
death when her mother was brutally knifed by a mystery
killer at Serena. The mother staggered from the house with
a knife wound in her throat and died on a
neighboring lawn. A large squad of police from the.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Camp then the pendulum swung. Within days, authorities believed Margaret's
horrific injuries were self inflicted.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
The Daily Mercury Monday February thirteen, nineteen seventy eight, detectives
investigating the death of a young mother of two at
Serena on Friday night, a following several lines of inquiry
following a post mortem examination, it was at first thought
she was a murder victim, but detectives are now not
certain of this. The woman Margaret Anne Kurstenfeld.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Statement of Milton Bill Hassenkam, Detective SAR first Class, Mackay
Criminal Investigation Bureau. In the overall, I'm inclined to the
belief that the deceased died as a result of wounds
inflicted by her own hand. This belief is supported by
the evidence available and the medical evidence of the post mortem.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Fast forward to two thousand and two, Queensland's most senior detective,
Peters Wendell's becomes an Assistant Commissioner. He then forms the
cold Case unit within the Homicide Squad. He was haunted
by two cases from the nineteen seventies. They shared similarities.
One of them was Margaret Kirstenfelt. A new investigation into
(05:43):
Margaret's death is undertaken and this time rules out suicide.
The pendulum swings back once again. The evidence points to
Margaret being murdered. I first became aware of Margaret's case
(06:04):
in two thousand and four while researching my book on
Queensland's first serial killer, Leonard John Fraser.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Had been convicted of the rape and murder of nine
year old schoolgirl Kira Steinhart.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I'll reveal that connection later on John Jordan. He never
be released. I need to view Margaret's family, detectives, and
retired investigators for a feature article I wrote while doing
the crime rounds for a newspaper I worked at in
two thousand and eight. Margaret's case is unique if you
(06:38):
can imagine the gamut of emotions experience when being told
at first that your loved one was raped and murdered,
only to learn days later her horrific injuries were self inflicted.
The finding that Margaret took her own life was something
that never sat well with her family. Nearly three decades later,
(07:03):
when Queensland Police delivered the news they were reopening Margaret's
case as a murder investigation, it confirmed the family's long
held suspicions, but brought with it another maelstrom of emotion.
Ever since I met Margaret's mother, Bunty and her family,
this case has intrigued me. Violet Bunty Willett lives in
(07:27):
jan Dowie, a tiny place on the western downs of
Queensland known for its farming and grazing land. It's about
eight hundred kilometers from Serena, where Margaret died. The town's
population has never really risen above fourteen hundred people and
(07:47):
is now home to many retirees. Bunty lives in the
same low set house where she raised her children and grandchildren.
So we're heading out to day interview her family, some
of whom have traveled from inter state to spend the
day with us in the hope that we can get
(08:09):
to the bottom of what happened to Margaret. Margaret Kurstenfeld
was the eldest child of Bunty and David willet She
(08:31):
was born on January twenty third, nineteen fifty seven, in Chinchilla,
not far from jin Dowie. Two years later came sister Deborah,
then in nineteen sixty brother Greg, who tragically died as
a young child in a truck accident that his parents survived.
(08:52):
In nineteen sixty four, Brian was born six years later,
another sister, Judith, before the youngest Susan arrived in nineteen
seventy four. She would have been around four years old
when Margaret died and doesn't remember much about her. The
(09:12):
three surviving daughters have all left Gen Dowie, but Brian,
now a Fly and Flyout worker, and his wife live
with Bunty. Father David, died in December nineteen ninety two.
Bunty is in her early eighties. She wants some answers
(09:32):
and peace before it's too late. Hello, Hi, Bunty, It's
Paula Domovan. How are you?
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (09:44):
I'm not mad?
Speaker 8 (09:45):
How are you good?
Speaker 9 (09:46):
Good? Good?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Where leaving this arrived in Dolby? You were about to
head out to you at Jen Dowie, Yeah, okay. As
well as Bunty, I'll be speaking with Margaret's brother Brian,
and her sister Deb who's traveled up from New South Wales.
I'll also be meeting with Leslie, Margaret's daughter, who was
only seven months old and sleeping in her cot just
(10:08):
meet his away when her mother died, but that interview
is for a later episode.
Speaker 9 (10:14):
Are we on the right road?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I'm traveling with my friend in Neette, who was also
my producer.
Speaker 10 (10:20):
So what are you hoping to achieve today, Paula.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Out here, I'm hoping that Margaret's family will be able
to paint a picture of who Margaret was, to bring
her to life, to tell me what they feel happened
to her, because so many other people have made determinations
(10:44):
about Margaret who didn't really know her, in terms of
the coroner, the investigating police, who were all looking at
Margaret from a different perspective, an angle, And I really
want to get the family to dig deep as much
as they can and as painful as it will be
(11:05):
to talk about who Margaret was and if that then
can give us any insight as to who may have
killed her. Tell us about the drive out here today.
What are your impressions of the place that we're going to.
It's very hot, it's not very hot, but it's in
its were you know, around the early thirties, and very
(11:26):
dry flat lands, not what you call mountain country at all,
like a lot of planes, lanch farming, rural community. So
Margaret would have grown up here. Yes, Margaret did grow
up here, and what one of her siblings originally described
as a three pub town that didn't have a lot
of variety, she ended up wanting to leave, couldn't find
(11:50):
a job that suited. She was someone who you'd like
to you know, party, have fun, but before life, and
I don't think she found out In her hometown of
jim Dowie. She was a country girl. Liked horses, she did,
she loved horses. Her family couldn't afford to buy a horse.
They sort of lived on a pretty tight financial budget.
(12:10):
There wasn't room for much, like new clothes or anything.
Bunty taught her daughters how to make their own clothes,
so Margaret was always in Margaret did actually love fashion,
a bit of a clothes horse and would like to
make her own clothes. Love to dance, would go to
every dance possible that the town held, whether it be
a hall dance, school dance, dance.
Speaker 9 (12:31):
At the pub.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
She would go.
Speaker 9 (12:42):
Okay, yeah, hello, Hi.
Speaker 11 (13:02):
Had lunch.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The family gathers in the kitchen, making and eating salad rolls.
Bunty's homemade scones are stacked up on the side of
the bench. A lot of furniture has been packed up
because a new floor is about to be laid in
the old house. Brian spends much of his time upgrading
his mum's home since I first called Bunty a few
(13:28):
weeks back. It's clear there have been family discussions. Thankfully
they have all agreed to be interviewed for the podcast.
They've been dusting off old photo albums and revisiting memories,
some very painful ones. For the first time, they are
sharing Margaret's diary and letters with me. So how did
(13:50):
you come to be living in jen Dowie? Did you marry?
Speaker 9 (13:53):
Married?
Speaker 11 (13:54):
Married David here we meet at the dancers and that
sort of thing stacks between Bray and Laura, and then
got married and we lived just out of town and
we've had quite a few ships are instance. Then came
here and I said I wouldn't move again unless I
(14:15):
was in a little wooden lot.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
So Margaret was your firstborn?
Speaker 9 (14:19):
Tell me about.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
Her firstborn years. She was firstborn and she was always
sort of skinny, do you hard to remember?
Speaker 11 (14:26):
I think that's what we went to Melbourne for for
about eighteen months. I think she went first went to
school down there Sunshine Norves.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
How do you describe her personality?
Speaker 11 (14:39):
She mightn't have been outgoing like the younger ones were,
might have been a little bit more reserved.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Buntie finds it hard to concentrate and cast her mind
back so far. Excuse me, She gets a bit frustrated
with herself. I just can't see. She has lost two
of her children and says she's blocked out a lot.
But while her memories have faced, the pain of her
loss has not dulled.
Speaker 10 (15:02):
Dear Mom and Dad, I have a few minutes to spare.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
An old letter Bunty wrote to her parents around nineteen seventy,
soon after Judy was born, gives a small insight to
life at that time.
Speaker 10 (15:14):
We've named the baby Judith May. She's doing quite well
and seems to be growing fast. I miss Bryan's first
day at school. They said he was funny with excitement
to go to school. He also had a fight with
some other little fellow on the first day. Since then,
he's had a couple more. He rather likes school and
I have no trouble getting him off to it. Margaret
(15:35):
seems to like school a bit better now too, with
the different teacher for the different subject seems to be
more interesting for her.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Margaret left school at the age of fifteen.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
Going well so Margaret.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Growing up, she was the eldest, and you mentioned that
she was a little bit quieter than the other kid.
Speaker 11 (15:53):
Yeah, at home and that, but she did get out.
She did try to sneak out on not to go
to Adean's. Just tell us it wasn't to go, but
anyr D. I met and followed her up and brought
her back home again, went opened the hall with me.
I'll clothes on. It wasn't very nice, but no, but
(16:14):
I wouldn't been a bit surprised. She snuggy out again too,
after I went to sleep.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
It's my great pleasure now.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
In nineteen seventy three, Margaret made her debut at the
local Debutante Ball. There are photos of her wearing a long,
demure white dress, white gloves to almost her elbows, a
posy in her hands, her dark hair piled on top
(16:40):
of her head bee hive style, with a ringlet on
either side of her face. Some of the pitches are
badly water damaged, but you can make out a shy smile.
She looks pretty happy with herself. In one image, she's
been escorted about a hall by a shaggy haired teen
(17:01):
in a black suit and bow tie.
Speaker 12 (17:05):
Dear Grandma, thank you for the material, and I'll.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Pass around this time. Margaret wrote a letter to her grandmother.
Speaker 12 (17:12):
I have a job in Dolby and board there and
go home for weekends. I work at Tracy's, always doing
all the office work. There isn't all that much bookwork,
so I have to take something along so I don't
get bored. The family is all well, apart from a
few colds and wogs going around, lots of love Margaret.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
In her late teens, Margaret studied for a while to
become a nurse, worked at a local bar, and tried
to get a driver's license, but failed the test a
couple of times.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Tell me what it was like growing up with Margaret.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Deborah calls a domineering big sister. I've got to know
a bit more. How much difference was there between you?
Speaker 7 (17:49):
Two years difference? And yes, we were the typical sibling.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Sisters that aught and scratched their way through every part
of our life. Extremely different personalities.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
She was always for a bit of fun, she was
always about to be adventurous.
Speaker 7 (18:06):
She loved school, she'd loved to look good and just
any joy to hell at the time. She just wouldn't
be happy to just sit still.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
She'd have to be doing things, Whereas I was probably
one who'd be sitting in the corner with the books
on there and she couldn't go on as I went.
So the arrangement was that you were coming, whether you
like it or not. In the Chinese burn, it would
go with.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It, or we need the anchor and the storm.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
Yeah, they probably thought that I could give her a
little bit of sensibility with her choice. I guess yeah.
I was always a sensible one. I'd be the one
putting the careful thought.
Speaker 7 (18:44):
In there whilst I come on this do it. There
are some several times but she was just such a
strong character that I was overwhelmed by her or not.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Sometimes you would have to cover for her. That you
would go to movie together and she would leave you
for the duration of the movie. Then you would have
to give her a summary. But can you tell me
a bit about that?
Speaker 8 (19:03):
Yes, I've heard of girlfriends and sometimes just sneak out
the side door. You wouldn't see them again to wear
so you'd have this big humbling of what happened, what
was the key points in the.
Speaker 6 (19:14):
Story, all around the walk back, So we'd do that.
I did get a little tired of it after a
few episodes of that. I remember one time, though I'm
outside the picture of here, there's no one there.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
The whole place is shut down. There's nobody left in
the street.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
And you were about three called an hour late coming home,
and I was not prepared to wear at this time.
Speaker 7 (19:36):
I walked home alone, so I didn't have a clue
where she was.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Margaret always wanted to wear the latest fashion.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
She really did.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
Never felt satisfied that we couldn't afford to have a lot.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Of things and do a lot of things, and.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Buy the silly shoes or whatever she just wanted to
and she'd make it a big song in dance until she
got them.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Her family couldn't afford, so Margaret would pay items off
at fifty cents a week at the local store, or
make the clothes herself.
Speaker 12 (20:08):
At present, I am knitting a jumper and a blouse
as well.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Her diary and letters are sprinkled with references to her
diy projects.
Speaker 12 (20:17):
Most of the day I spent finishing my top and
repairing my long black skirts so I could wear them.
Some crocheting cotton to make a Bikinian hat to be lined.
If we made judy'shult neck dress and my strap black
top and both Walden to the pictures.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
In early nineteen seventy five. According to her diary, Margaret
was spending a lot of her time with friends, mucking about,
having a few beers. She'd applied for unemployment benefits. She
go to the picture theater, do our jobs about the house,
go fishing, swim at the local pool, or go dancing.
(20:55):
And according to her sister deb she was becoming quite
well known about out.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
But she did enjoy looking good. She loved to be
a bit of a center of attention. She liked a
bit of drama and she enjoyed it.
Speaker 7 (21:14):
She always needed a company, did she like male company?
Always always felt comfortable in our company.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
And that was something that was always do even as
a very young girl who was just searching out who
she was, trying to be, who she was where she
could in this world.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And for you, how did the way she lived life
impact on you? As her younger sister.
Speaker 7 (21:36):
I was expected to be the same as her.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
So any boyfriends that she had with or people around
who saw how she where, they expected that I would
be the same.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Can you elaborate a bit on that? Oh?
Speaker 8 (21:49):
I can actually give you bactly one of my husband
act He thought I was like Margaret when he took
me out for the first time.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
So I spent the first hour or two friending of
arms from blabbing boobs, because that's what he thought that
this pair of girls did, and he didn't realize that.
Speaker 7 (22:07):
That wasn't how I liked my relationships.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
He and I guess that sort of summed it up
that people would not be taking time to get to
know me.
Speaker 7 (22:17):
They was thinking it would be a happy and easy lad.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So Margaret was quite sexually active here. How does that
go over in a small town, particularly back in the seventies.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
She was labeled pretty well and was well known the boys,
which is kind of sad and you look back on
it now because she really was just being brief, but
in those days it was very much brander.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Indeed, eighteen year old Margaret's diary is filled with boys' names, Peter, Paul, Lindsey, Wayne,
to name just some. Often though they are associated with
innocent pursuits, going crave, going to a dance, to the river,
the driving, or the pitchers.
Speaker 12 (23:04):
Went to the pitchures and from interval on I played
around with Wayne less and I went downtown to watch
the drags and ended up getting home late and Les
spent the day drinking with Colin at first, and then
with Wayne and Ivan. I had a bit of fun
and got to bed after three. I ended up drinking
with Lindsey, but I don't remember much of the night
(23:25):
because I got a bit under the weather.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
On occasion, she would call out a boy who'd annoyed her.
Speaker 12 (23:32):
Ross kept trying to get me to be with him
and play around at the pitches, but I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Margaret was definitely a young girl, giddy on life, having fun, socializing.
She was easily flattered. She was also soon to be married.
In nineteen seventy four, aged only seventeen, Margaret became engaged
(23:59):
to a man, des Cat, who she'd met when he
worked in town, but he'd since moved away for a job.
Theirs was a long distance romance.
Speaker 8 (24:11):
It was a gentleman that was living here, working here,
and somehow or other they've gotten together.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
He was an older man. He was a lovely gentleman,
very strong Christian background. She seemed to have been really
happy with that. I was struggling to picture her in
that relationship. It just seemed so different I've seen it
with that.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
There are photos of the couple smiling and well dressed
at their engagement party. However, they didn't seem to see
each other often, and, judging by Margaret's diary entries, often
missed each other's phone calls.
Speaker 12 (24:52):
Got home at nine am and missed Deser's call. Des
Rang and I talked to him for about fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Even so, Margaret was in love with the idea of
getting married. On the front page of her nineteen seventy
five diary, Margaret had written the names and phone numbers
of mister and Missus w Cat and mister Vince Cat,
proudly referring to them as her future parents and future
brother in law. On the seventh of September that year,
(25:22):
she'd pre written one year engaged, but by that stage
her relationship with Dez was long over.
Speaker 12 (25:34):
Saturday, March one, nineteen seventy five, Dez was here when
I woke up, as he arrived about nine o'clock. Later
on in the day, des and I had a talk
and we broke it up as things were not working out.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
By June, Margaret was writing about Malcolm Kirstenfeldt.
Speaker 12 (25:53):
Malcolm came late as he thought I would have been
out yesterday boy. Was I glad to see him.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
He visited her at home.
Speaker 12 (26:01):
Malcolm came around that night but was unable to go
out due to just coming home. Malcolm invited myself in
Debs to a party at Sullivan's place at Redlands.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
She called at quits with other boys.
Speaker 12 (26:14):
But went and saw David so I could tell him
it was all off. At first, I couldn't be alone
with him for me to tell him. But what made
it worse was he was Randy's anything and I had
some trouble.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
By September, Margaret and Malcolm were staying at each other's homes.
She wrote of helping missus Kirstenfeld around the house having
long chats with Malcolm. In fact, on what would have
been the night of her one year engagement anniversary to Deaz, she.
Speaker 12 (26:42):
Wrote, Sunday the seventh of September nineteen seventy five, Malcolm
came around at seven point thirty and stayed the night again.
I'll miss him through night duty at work.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
But things did not go as she planned. Next time,
I'm pendulum Margaret's life in this arena.
Speaker 8 (27:17):
I think you're so understanding staring.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And Malcolm Cursenfeldt speaks out for the first time. I'll
be talking to her that one so that I said
that I would be back up on that following weekend
and shut us go and work things out. If you
have information about the Margaret Kurstenfeld case, please let us know.
(27:47):
Email us at Pendulum podcast at gmail dot com, or
go to seven US dot com dot AU. Forward Slash
Pendulum presenter and executive producer Paula Donovan, Writer and producer
(28:09):
Sally Eels. Sound design Mark Wright, graphics Jason Blandford, Transcripts
Susan Bush. Our theme music is the Clock Is Ticking
by dark Org Music. See our show notes for all
(28:31):
music credits. With thanks to seven Years Brisbane
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