June 29, 2020 • 57 mins
A sinister portrait develops of the man once known as Steven Henry Kiem. Described as cruel and violent, those who used to be in close contact come forward with their harrowing memories, relieved he's now dead. What they say about his link to the cold cases of Margaret Kirstenfeldt and Queenie Hart.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pendulum wishes to advise that some listeners may find parts
of the following podcast episode Confronting It contains details of
sexual violence and trauma Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander. Listeners
are also advised that reference is made to deceased Indigenous people.
(00:27):
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mum dies violently in
a small Queensland town. Suicide or murder? What happened to
Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows? This is Pendulum episode fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm Paula Donovan. We said we'd be back if we
found out some more information, so here we are. Several
weeks ago, I received an email out of the blue
about Stephen Khme, as revealed last episode. He's the man
who was originally charged with the murder of Queenie Hart
(01:32):
in Rockhampton in nineteen seventy five and was living just
down the road from Margaret Kirstenfeld in Serena when she
suffered a brutal death in nineteen seventy eight. Climb died
last September as we were carrying out our investigation. Anyway,
(01:56):
this woman who reached out said she hadn't heard of
this podcast, had never listened to an episode, but she
had stumbled across an article I'd written about this man
from her past. Like others we've already spoken with in
previous episodes, Stephen Kim had cast a devastating shadow on
her childhood. My article dredged up memories she wanted to
(02:19):
forget but couldn't. After some back and forth messaging via email,
she agreed to speak with me on the phone. What
we both discovered was that she and her mother hold
vital clues to this case, the integral pieces that might
bring the puzzle together. She doesn't want her name revealed,
(02:44):
but we can say she once lived in Kyme's Rockhampton
home as his stepdaughter. Her mother was Kime's wife and
was on the train with him when he was arrested
by police for the murder of Queenie Hart in nineteen
seventy five. Interestingly, the woman and her mother both said
police did not speak with them at the time of
(03:06):
Queeny's murder or since for the purpose of this podcast,
we'll call this woman Leanne and her mother Betty. After
our chat, Leanne agreed to contact Betty to see if
she would be interviewed. She said yes, but only because
I assured her that Stephen Kim was now dead. If
(03:28):
he was still alive, she wouldn't have done it. Betty
is elderly now Asian her seventies and suffering some hearing loss.
She wanted me to travel to her to sit with
her during our interview. However, at the time it was impossible.
She lives in central Queensland and I'm several hundred kilometers
(03:52):
away in Brisbane. It was the peak of the COVID
nineteen lockdown and stretched travel bands were in place. It
had to be a fine interview. Hello, Hi, Hi, how
are you going?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah? Good? Thanks.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
So insteadly Anne sat with her mum, Hello, hi, as
she answered my many questions. Could you tell me how
you came to meet Stephen Khim?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, I'm not in that spring Shaw and then nah,
I'm mat him again. Y, that's when we got married.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
What were you both doing in spring Shaw at the time.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Yeah, I lived there and he was working out there.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Like a like on a cattle station or something.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Do you remember what year that would have been?
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Oh, yeah, I don't know, A long time.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Ago, nineteen seventy.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, no, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
What were your first impressions of him.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Oh no, no, oh, it was all right then now.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
You know you moved to rock Hampton and that's where
you So how did you meet up with him again there?
I and you had a relationship with him, Yeah, and
then you married him. Betty says the couple got married
in the courthouse. There was no family from either side
(05:20):
in attendance, and she can't remember the exact date the
ceremony took place. In fact, they are still married, having
never divorced. What was he doing at the time when
you married him? Do you remembers at the Lake Creeks Meatworks?
(05:41):
Do you know what he was doing there?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Networks?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
And I played?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
How would you have described him back then then? Beginning
so treated you well?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yet did he talk much about himself or his past
or family?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Did he know not much?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Had they lived into Woomboo and yeah, and so he
was at there for.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Work in Rockhampton?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And did he tell you what his what his childhood
was like, what his family were like?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
No, he never should spoke about him much.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Do you know how far he went? Say in school?
Did he go through the grade ten or did he
drop out early?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Early? You never spoke about himself much.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Do you know how long you were married to him?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Four? No, it wasn't along Okay, all.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Right, do you remember how he proposed? No?
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Really?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So you had children to a previous relationship that you had,
a boy and a girl. Yeah, And how did he
treat them?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
First? First?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:53):
First, treat him well?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
It was cruel.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
He was cruel to them.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Can you tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Into the main.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I'm sorry I didn't quite catch up. What were the
reasons for him doing that? So he wouldn't need a
reason to say discipline or he wouldn't say he would
just he would just hit them up.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It was.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
He drinking a lot when he was with you?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Was he drinking when those sort of things happened to
your kids?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Did he used to do that to you too?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yes, yeah, sure he's drinking a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
He would turn violent? Yeah he So did this violent
start before or after you were married?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Did it seem like a Jekyll and Hyde type of
character that he was? It wasn't long into the marriage
before Betty fell pregnant, and for a time Chime seemed happy,
but it didn't last. He beat Betty when she was
(08:19):
pregnant with both his son and later his daughter at
home in the street anytime. Betty never went to hospital
for treatment, and she never complained to police. When the
babies were born, Betty says, Chime even hurt them too.
(08:41):
Can you tell me what he would do? So he
would just start hitting hitting the baby?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Could do when I'm.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Me?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Then, she says that sometimes the neighbors would call the police.
Did the police ever come in to help you or
did anyone?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Nah?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Oh, it might have come and just you know, talked, went,
Oh that didn't help much.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Did you feel like you weren't believed by the police.
I think would Stephen punish you if the police turned up?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Do you remember what you used to fight about? What?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
What?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Apart from him drinking? Was there anything in particular?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
No, she seems to want to fight all not every day,
but you know, yeah, you can do it often. Yeah,
a bad tamper.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Eventually, Betty says she couldn't cope with Crime's violence any longer,
so she took her four children and escaped to her
mother's home at Mount Morgan. Chime's biological son and daughter
were any babies at that time. He had nothing more
to do with them. But back in April nineteen seventy five,
(10:07):
Betty was still living with Stephen Khme and this was
the time the body of an Aboriginal woman named Queenie
Hart was found naked bound in Rockhampton's Fitzroy River. Betty
remembers being on the train with her husband and children
(10:27):
days after the gruesome discovery. They were heading out to
Springshaw to see a family member when police suddenly swooped.
Were you with Stephen when he was arrested?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Were you on a train with him.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Springshaw?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Why was that? What can you tell me how that
came about?
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Oh? The police come and took him off the training.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I saw that.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Were you first aware of his involvement with the Queeny
Heart matter when the police arrested him on.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
That train.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
And he just took him back to the rock at all?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Where were you when all this was happening? Did they
take you back to or just him?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Just so?
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Where did you go to Springdshore on the train?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Did the police say why they were arresting him?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
No?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Not much, not at all.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So were you surprised at all that they had turned
up and stopped the train and do you remember what
happened next? Then there was a there was a committal
hearing and he was committed for trial. Do you remember
that time? So you stayed out at Spring Share? Was
(11:47):
that your own choice or what he asked you to do?
Were you in contact with him?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
No, you didn't go to the trial. Did he ever
talk to you about Queeny Heart? Can you remember when
he said that to you?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I remember?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Do you remember how it came up? It was that
after the trial or before the trial? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I didn't trial.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
He walked out of court free on the first day
of trial, so he walked away from it. But do
you remember whether he said that to you before or
after he walked free?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Oh? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Sometime ago when he said it to you. Do you
remember what the circumstances were for him to come out
and admit that he'd actually killed her?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Oh? No, was prob it back on Rocker?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And did he give you any detail as to what
he did?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Oh? He said he did later on.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So he said he killed Queeny Hart. Did he mention
her by name? No, he said he did it and
then he and and he said he was going to
do it to you.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Too, Yeah, it away.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Did you think he was serious?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
But I serious. He put a knife on me and
everything I was up frightened to him. He was brogging
my kids at the time. I won them.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So this was just before you went to Mount Morgan.
Had he ever pulled a knife on you before?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
A lot of times?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I didn't want to think about it anymore.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Do you want to keep talking
or do you want to.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
And I don't want it anymore?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay, all right, would you mind putting on the phone. Yeah, okay,
thank you, thank you. So Betty passed the phone back
to her daughter, Klim's step daughter, the one we call Leanne.
Betty wouldn't talk anymore after that. Clearly the memories are
too traumatic. But as you heard, she recalls Chime telling
(14:04):
her he killed Queenie, and she remembers him threatening to
do the same to her, describing how he held a
knife to her throat, hearing that it's not hard to
draw parallels with the Margaret Kirstenfeld case. Margaret died from
being slashed across the throat with a knife. As Betty
(14:28):
didn't want to talk anymore, I spoke to her daughter Leanne.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Hello, Hey, you going?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, she didn't didn't seem to want to talk. I
don't know whether it's going to be different if I
could get up there. Do you think that would make
a difference.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, I think it's just one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
She struggled like that. Yeah, yeah, okay, but.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
If you actually sat with her, I think it should
be a bit more about it, relaxed. Yeah, okay, Well
the problem kids? All right?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Just in case I can't get up while I have
you here, can I interview you as well? Would that
be all right? Okay? Okay? So could you tell me
how old you were when Stephen Kime came into your
mother's life.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
My earliest memory would be about five, because i'd started
grade one. That's my earliest memory.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Whereabouts? Was that when you were at the Rock, Caampton School?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah? I was going to Berska State School. Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And do you remember what your first impressions of him were?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
No? See, I'll explain something. I had workplace injury, like
a couple of years ago, and I had to see
a psychologist and I've got, proudly i've got a suppressed
memory from that, like from age eight. I can tell
your stuff. But before that it's just little things that
I can remember. And my psychologists worked with me to
(15:54):
try and bring up some bad things that happened, and
I've suppressed them, but I will try and remember what
I can. Yeah, there must be really bad things for
me to suppress, she said.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
So Leanne has been seeing a psychologist and has very
little recollection of events that happened in her early childhood years.
She tells me she does remember being sexually abused by
Time when she was around eight years old, and it
wasn't long after that that her mother left him.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And I'm thinking, well, it wouldn't seem right because why
would he have done it just the once when I
was eight and never again. This was left soon after,
but I'm pretty sure something happened before that. But it's
just that when I work with my psychologists, like, we
couldn't dreads that up, Like I don't know if it
was too painful or I didn't want to remember or
(16:45):
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I don't want to push you into any any I.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Don't want to. You can remember what I can, like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Just just talk to me about what life was like.
If you can remember whatever, you can remember when when
he first came your Mum doesn't know when she married him.
But do you have any recollection of what Stephen what
when he came into your life, what life was.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Like he came into our lives and back and I
didn't know that marriage or nothing, but yeah, they got
married apparently, and then like he was good of the
start with, like we were made for him dad and
all that, and then you know when he started like
drinking all the time and bashing mum and like my
(17:30):
mom said, he used to like bash us, and that's
something I can't even remember, yeah, because she said, no,
he used to me and my brother and I can't
remember that, Like, yeah, why I can't I remember because obviously, yeah,
I've obviously suppressed anyway. But yeah, he just changed, like
and then he'd have some good days, like we'd be
like a normal family, and you know, he'd come home
(17:51):
drunk and bashed mom and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And where would you and your brother be when that
was happening.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
He would do it in front of us, like drag
her from room to room by the hair, like punching her,
kicking her in front of us, and or sometimes he'd
go unlock her in the room and we could hear
her coming bouncing off the walls and screaming, and we're
trying to get in. He'd locked the door, and we
didn't know like if when they came out, if my
(18:21):
mom would come out or she'd be dad. We didn't
know any of that. He's just yeah, just it became
like a normal life for us, Like you know, you'd
have a couple of good days, were normal family, and
that would happen. Yeah, very unpredictable, it was.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Did he ever speak to you or to your mom
about the violence? Did he ever try and apologize? Did
he explain justify?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
No, not to our kids, but I know with mom,
like after a bashing, like the next day, she'd be
laying in bed or bruised up and laying with a
piece of steak on her eye, and he'll be there
getting a cup of tea and stuff like that, and
we're thinking, no, you know, everything's going to be all
right now, Like you know, he's talking nice to it
and giving her a cup of tea, Like it just
(19:09):
became a normal way of life. When kids see that
and they just get used to it, you know, did.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You still feel scared seeing that?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah? See, like, oh they're happy again. So we'd be happy,
and then two days later it happened again. It's just like, yeah,
it just messes with a little kid's head. I reckon.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And how about your brother, how did he chape?
Speaker 6 (19:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well he was eighteen months older than me, and he
was always we're really close because back then he was
like a protector. He'd always sorry, I'm.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Sure, that's okay, it's just take your time. If you
want to stop, just tell me. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Now, he'd always try and protect me. Well, he wasn't
much older than me, and that's why we're still very
close to this day, because he was only and I
hadn't really like he couldn't do much like you know,
he was only a little skinny fellow. But he always
(20:10):
made sure like he'd go and hide me, put me
under the bed.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Would Stephen come looking for you.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
No, it's just like because when we were watching their
mum get bashed, and then I'd just be screaming and
he would just take me by the hand and put
me under the bed so I couldn't hear or see anything.
But you can still hear it through the old house,
mum screaming.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Leanne says as she hid under the bed, listening to
her mother being beaten in another room. Her brother would
stay with her.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, I hit today. He'd just sit on the bed
and make sure I just stayed under the bed.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Like sounds like an amazing older brother.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Time fathered Land's two half siblings, but she can only
remember when one of them was born.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I only remember when I was born because I woke
up in mom's bed and my cousin was in the
bed with me, and she's like, oh, your mom's going
to have the baby, mi AUNI had come from Springshield,
And then I just remember Mom coming home with the
little baby, and then I can't. I've got no memory
(21:32):
of being born and coming home.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Do you have any memories of how your stepfather, how
he was with.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
He didn't seem that much time for him, like you
know on the good days, if you like, bouncing them
on his knee and everything. But then the same thing
would happen a couple of days later, just like to
throw the kids in the cot and start bashing mom.
So then men would step in, and you had had
the babies and anything like that.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So you had to take care of your younger siblings.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, just keep them.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
In the room.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Are you okay? Do you want to keep going?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, no, it's okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Did you ever see your stepfather harm?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, he'd like that kind in the cot, sling them
out with one arm. Or if they're like playing and
they're too loud, like you'd pick them up by one arm,
drag them into the room where the cops were, and
just throw them into the cot by the one arm,
Like if you had a rag doll, just fling it
(22:44):
into the cot.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
How old would they have been?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
One would have been probably two and a half and one,
like they were pretty close in age, and yeah, like
they were titled and toddlers walking around playing and that.
But if they got on his nerves, he'd just pick
him up one arm and drag him and sling him
into the cot, sell him to shut up.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Do you know what it would take to upset your stepfather?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Oh, like if you're too noisy, or you didn't address
him properly, or if you like wanted your mum's attention
and he wanted all the her attention, anything like that
would set him.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, how are you meant to address him dad?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
If you never said dad, like you just talked to
him and then he'd say, well, who am I? And
you just look at him and he goes, who the
fuck am I? And I'll be like, dad, you know,
because you knew you had to say that word, even
though he wasn't my dad.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Did you ever meet any of your stepfather's family at all?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Any friends would come over to the house.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
No.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I think maybe one or two workmates would come over.
That was when we moved to Dennison Street. When he
was on the railway, Like a couple of these workmates
would come over and drink with him, and he used
to like even bash mum in front of them, like
and they just sit there, don't like it.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Was a show.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Did you ever go and try and get help for
your mum or yourselves, like.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
When she's been bashed? Yeah, yeah, like we've run next
door and or not at Dennison Street, but they didn't
know the neighbors. But in Connor Street, we knew the
next door neighbors. They were really nice and then me
just run over there and they just knew when we
knocked on the door that they had to ring the police.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
So when the police did turn out, what happened, we just.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Go into the room, but like they'd just be standing
there talking and then they just drive away. They didn't. No,
I don't think they ever offered, like to get an
ambulance or any medical help the mum, even though she'd
be standing, the blood all over and busted lips or lifts,
you know that. I don't think she ever went away
(25:10):
in an amblance or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
How did your mother get through? I mean, apart from
obviously the horrific nature of what was happening to her psychologically,
mentally and emotionally, the physical side of that violence, how
did she survive?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I don't know. She's a very strong lady, Like she
broke her knives and she's got scars on her face
to day from him that never went away.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
How did he cause those scars?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Like punching like she would punch her like she was
a man. She's got an awful lot of scars on her.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Did you ever see him with knives? No? Where were
you living in nineteen seventy five at Easter around Easter time?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
He would have been at Jennison Street, the railway house,
so would have been seven.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Actually no, if I said no, we would have been
still at Connor street of Lake Creek Road.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And he was working for the railway.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
No, I'm not sure if he was on the railway
then or is it at the meatbooks, But I know
Mom was still at the meat books.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Do you remember anything about that time at all?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Being on a train, Yeah, that's one memory that like
I just remember the train stopped and then we were
getting happy this over here, but then the police can
everyone jump on and they're just looking and then mums
just said, oh, we're going to see Grannie like her mum.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Did the police say anything?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
No?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Did it surprise you?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, because like we're wondering why the police was taking him,
and Mum just said, oh no, it's all what We're
still going on a holiday, Like she just tried to
keep us, you know occupied, Like yeah, and I didn't
find it for years later, like what had actually happened?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
How did how did you learn about what happened?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Well, Mum told me.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That Leanne learned of the murder in a very different way.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
He told mom he was working late that night, but
it was I think it was his payday. And then
me and my mum we walked right from Conness Street
to I think it was called a Victoria Pub and
he wasn't there, and then we walked all the way
back home because she was waiting for the money to
go and for food, and then so walked came and
(27:44):
he came home that night, and that's when he said
to her that he had killed a lady. And then
he told her how he done it and everything, and
then then he said, yeah, well, if you say anything,
I'm going to do it to you, like and I
remember an there.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So he confessed in front of you as well as
your mom.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah yeah, because then mum got scared and then she
put us in the room and then she came in
and she laid on the bed. But that was after
he said it. And then the next day she's like, oh,
you know, we have to leave, like, you know, he's
killed a woman. Michael can't stay here. But then she
(28:26):
was scared to go because he was said, like she
left him and took his kids, he'd track it down
and kill her. And then when she's been out, he'd
actually killed a lady. Like she took him very serious,
Like she was so scared, like and back then, like
she didn't have anywhere that she could run through, you know,
(28:47):
she was that scared, we didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And so just just take me back through that night
that he comes home to the house. What what do
you remember or is this what your mom's told you?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
No, I was there when he said it. So they
were arguing because Mum said, well it's paiday, Like, what
didn't you come home? We needed money and he's going
to you know, started squaring at her and I'll go
to the fucking pub when I want and spend the money.
And then he's like, yeah, well I just killed a
woman's And then Mum like obviously got shocked. And then
(29:21):
he's like, yeah, well you know, I just kill her
and stuff like that. Mom's standing there like she was
like really, And then I'm thinking, no, he must be
just saying that scared her, like so she won't look
for money, That's what I was thinking. But yeah, it
was just he was quite serious, and even Mum like
(29:42):
really really got scared after that. She knew but if
he wanted to kill her, he would, Well.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Who decided they were going to then leave Rockhampton to
catch that train.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Well this is what I well, now that you think,
but he must have thought, well, it's get out of town.
It was just like get your babe. We've run on
the train and like mom tried to make it fun.
I was going to see Granny and anything, but he
was all serious, like you it was probably weird time
to go on a holiday.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Like when he came home that night, do you remember
what he looked like?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
He had his worked clothes on because it was only
one light on. It was in the kitchen and we
were in the lounge and it was dark when he
walked in. There was a light coming from the kitchen.
And I'm just like I remember sitting there like in
my friend left pajamas like and like I think Mum
(30:41):
tried to chase me to bed, like when she heard
him coming, because she's thinking, oh, you're going to come
home and fash her now, because she went looking for
him for the money and I was pay day. But
I just sat there and it was just he just
started going off his head.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Do you remember what he told your mum?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
He said, I kill the black something. I don't even
know what. It was a derogatory word or something. I
don't know if it was slap or or or something.
Her Mom's just like, oh yeah, whatever, you know. I
didn't believe him at first, except yeah, I've killed her
freaking through in the river. It was like he was
(31:24):
proud of himself, like he was telling her, look, I've
done it, so there's nothing stopping me from doing it
to you. So for like probably two more years, like
she was that scared, like to not cross him, for
the fact that she knew all that time that he
had killed a woman, and like he pretty much said
she could be next, like like, I don't know how
(31:47):
any woman could like live like that, you know, no,
in the next passion, like maybe you might pull a
knife out and just stabbed me. Like I couldn't live
like that. I don't know how she did it, And
she was too scared to go, like no, he was
going to track it down and kill her. And she
had like four kids, like you know, I don't know
(32:10):
it would have been so hard.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Did any of you have the chance to talk to
the police or did the police come and speak with
your mum or you and your brother?
Speaker 5 (32:22):
No?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
No, like after that, it was pretty much kept from us,
Like mom never spoke about it again. She said he
was in jail, and then because he wasn't around, like
and we didn't sort of register like to say, oh, well,
you know, maybe it's true, like what he said, like
(32:43):
you killed a woman, but no saying to jail. We
didn't think that. Just like she said, he went to jail,
and he wasn't gone very long because the things were
happy for a while while he wasn't there, and then
he came back and it all went back to how
it was.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
When Kim returned home, the violence returned.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
To it seemed to get worse. Actually it was more
like maybe it was like once a week, and then
it got to two or three times a week, like
my poor mum, like she didn't even have find bruises
or anything for hell before the next facing. Like he
(33:29):
seemed to be more cruel to his own kids for
some reason. They were only babies, but they got so.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Much so he didn't care how young they were.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Maybe maybe and maybe because they were his flesh and blood,
and he'll do the damn well whatever he wants to him,
you know, like he married mom, so that's his possession,
his woman. He can do whatever he wants to them.
It's all about power and control and his possessions.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So the violence started to increase. What made your mother
finally leave him?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I'm not sure because I know, like I told you
how I woke up and he was in my room
touching me, And it wasn't too long after that because
Mum asked me about it the next morning. I don't
know how she knew, like whether he told her he
had done it, or but it wasn't too long after
(34:26):
that that we left, So I don't know if it
was because she was scared, like you know, he's going
to keep sexually molesting me, or whether he's doing it
to his own daughter. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Was that, as far as you know, the only incident.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, yeah, And that's what I said to my psychologist.
It can't be. He can't just do that once when
I'm at an age where I can tell on him,
like why would he? It must have done it before that,
but I've suppressed it, and she's like, obviously, yeah, like
with bad things like that, it's just something when you
(35:06):
don't want to remember something, you can suppress it where
it doesn't come back to you. But I just find
it hard to believe that it was only the one time,
and when I was eight, when I could actually tell
on him. He just doesn't seem right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
It was the sexual abuse of her daughter that proved
the final straw for Betty Leanne remembers it happened when
her mum wasn't around, she was asleep or out, and
Kim had been plying her and her brother with beer.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And then I remember this night. I was kept telling
us to drink the beer, drink the beer, and I
was getting sick and it took me to the toilet
and I stewed, and then I went to bed. And
that was the night that he came in when he
sort of like I was. He was sort of shaking me.
He's like, you want too, Bob, and I'm like no,
(36:02):
because it was a nice time. I couldn't go to
the shop, you know, And I'm like no, and then
he's just like, I'll give you too, Bob. We kept
saying it, and that's when he like pulled my pants
down and started molesting me, and I just sort of
made myself like just later and I just fell back
to sleep because I didn't want to be there.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Did he say anything to you the next day.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
No, because he had already he went to work. And
then we were getting ready for school, and I said.
Mom came in the room and she sat on the
bed and she stilled me in front of her and
she's like, did something happen last night? I'm like no,
She's like, tell me, did something happen. I'm like no,
I did he touch you? And I'm like no. It's
like I just kept saying no.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Were you? Were you too scared? Or why I.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Think it was. I just pushed it back with the
other memories, like I didn't want to remember. I didn't
want to speak it. I didn't want my mom like
if she want, you know, she found out what she
would get another bar, she knows something like if she
approached him about it, and I doesn't want to be
the cause of that. From that time on was blanked
(37:19):
out until that night in the middle of the night
when she wake us up, until we're going. So in
between that time to the time he left, I can't
sort of remember.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Much when you left and you went to Mount Morgan. Yeah,
was that the last time he saw Stephen Cohn n He.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Came to Mount Morgan. I don't know how much long
because Mum had put us into school and then we
went We were staying with my grandmother, and then we
got home from school and he was there and he
wanted to see babies, and he'd like tried to talk
to me. We sort of thinking, no, no, we're going
back to him, but Mom didn't go back to me.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Liane's half sister did go and stay with her father
at one point. By this stage, the little girl was
about seven years old. Kim had moved on with another
woman and had two more daughters. Bizarrely, he named them
after the children he shared with Betty. Kim had requested
his daughter come stay with him during the school holidays.
(38:29):
Betty wasn't happy about it, but didn't think she could
say no.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
And then she told me something today, like I didn't
even know what it was a memory, but I wasn't
sure if it had actually happened, like she told me
when it was about seven that was living with another
lady and then they had two daughters together, and then
(38:56):
he wanted to dig up and meet her sisters and stuff,
so he took her to Serena for two weeks. And
then I didn't even know that. And Mom told me
today and I'm like, but wasn't you scared that, like
you would never bring it back? He's like, she said, yeah,
I was, but he asked for her, like for the holidays,
and wanted to meet the stepmother and her sisters like
(39:19):
and like, yeah, it was something I had at the
back of my mind, but like it was like, oh,
did that happen? But you know, one of their memories.
And then I got a shop and Mum actually said yeah,
that had actually happened, and then came back. She was
pretty traumatized because she had to watch her stepmother getting
(39:41):
bashed like every day.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Kim never provided support for his children and he never
married another woman.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
No, because Mum and him never got divorced.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Leanne had no idea Stephen Kahim had changed his name
to Chris Turner until she read my articles. But Betty
was aware and she knew he'd been living in Serena.
Did they ever talk about the death of Mara Personfeld
at Serena?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Oh, there was an article on Sunday Mail. Would have
been two thousand and eight or two thousand and nine.
I stayed with Mum and then she always made a thing.
She always got the morning bullet and she always got
the Sunday Mail. So I'm just sitting there and she's like, oh,
I'll see that article there, and I'm like oh, and
(40:31):
I'm reading and She's like, yeah, he done that, And
I'm like who. She's like that bighead and I'm like, well, like, yeah,
he's done it again, Like he's done it again, Like
she kept saying it.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
How did she know?
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Was it because it had mentioned Queenie Hart.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Maybe, but she just that's what she said, he did that.
And I'm like, well, whom, Mum, Like I didn't just
she never said his name, just said he did it
the dickcare and like and then like that's when we
sort of realized how he had associations with Leonard Fraser
and all that and yeah, but Mum was just adamant,
(41:12):
like she just knew.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
So how has your mum lived in respect to seven
time since she since he left.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
She just can't be with anyone, like she has trust things,
like she's scared of violence and everything. So she's been
alone without a man for like wow, years and years,
like probably twenty five years. Like it's just something like
because she's been so scarred over, you know, just been
(41:44):
bashed and like it's not normal to her, Like she
just doesn't want to be in a relationship and have
that fear in her life, Like like she just wouldn't
trust a man like if he raised his voice, like
she'd honestly think that she was going to get bashed
straight up, Like.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yeah, and is there is there anything else that you
can share with this about Stephen Kim.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
No, just like the world's a better place now that
he's gone. But saying that, I feel sorry for the ladies'
families that involved in this and wanted to answer and closure,
I'm sorry for that, but honestly, the world's better off
without him.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And why did you feel the need to contact us
the Pendulum podcast, Like my.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Mum put to share her story and what she knew,
and like I didn't think I was going to be involved,
but obviously I had something I had to say. So
I just thought I was reading about the two ladies
and their families and you know how much that they
were when he had died, and like they're never going
(42:59):
to get in, So I just thought I'd reach out
and just let him know that we knew stuff and
knew him and how he treated people.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
The information provided by Leanne and her mother about Stephen
Khin has never been investigated or substantiated by police. While
he was never charged, a pattern of behavior has emerged
in allegations from former partners, stepchildren, and even relatives who
(43:43):
grew up alongside him. Kim was a chronic alcoholic, predatory, menacing,
and cruel prone to sexually, physically and emotionally abusing the
women and children in his life, babies, pregnant women, teenage babysitters.
(44:06):
His violence knew no bounds. He was controlling and had
a snap temper, easily triggered and got enjoyment from humiliating
his Aboriginal partners and all their children in front of
his drinking buddies. He called them names and would often
(44:27):
refer to Indigenous women in very derogatory terms. Kim was
also someone who hid escaping detection by changing his identity
and not leaving much of a footprint. He never appeared
on an elector role, property deed or telephone book. He
(44:49):
had mentioned he was born into Womba, which I suspected
was a lie until I finally tracked down his relatives
to Woomba is the regional capital of Queensland's Darling Downs
and not far from the small town of jen Dowie
where Margaret Kirstenfeldt grew up. Khine's family members also painted
(45:10):
a sinister picture revealing the dark, violent pass of a
man who preyed on women. They believed he had the
propensity to kill, also saying he'd beat a woman black
and blue until he got what he wanted. These relatives
only spoke to me on the condition of anonymity. They
(45:34):
said Kim grew up with a father who was also
violent to women, a man who forced his wife to
cook for his mistresses. There was also some sexual violence
within the home he grew up, but relatives are unsure
whether Chime was aware of it. His mother believed her
(45:55):
husband once tried to kill her by electrocution, and, according
to relatives, on her wedding day, every instinct told her
to run away, but instead she walked down the aisle.
When Kim's father finally left his family in the nineteen sixties,
(46:16):
his departure was a relief. Kime attended a local state
school and was good with his hands, pottery, woodwork, and
fixing things. He quit school in year ten for a
job at a local bacon factory. He was a keen
fisherman who always carried knives, mostly with a serrated edge,
(46:37):
which he used to gut fish, but unlike his wife, Betty.
Relatives never saw Chime threaten anyone with a knife. In
his teens, Chime was known as a bodgy, the Australian
version of the American greasa. He hung out of the
city Milk Bar in Rothven Street in to Woomba. Around
(47:03):
this time, he was caught spying through the bathroom window
at his oldest sister as she showered. After this, his
relationship with his family deteriorated. His sister was absolutely horrified.
Another relative referred to Chime as a mongrel who enjoyed
degrading women. He used the saying the stork or walk
(47:27):
nineteen seventy slang men used to force sex from female
hitchhikers or women who got into their cars. The women,
who were sometimes on dates, would be driven to isolated
bush spots and told they would have to walk home
unless they had sex with the mail driver or gave
a sexual favor. One of Kim's first girlfriends told members
(47:52):
of his family she had to leave the relationship as
she was worried his beatings would eventually kill her. It
would have been about eighteen or nineteen at the time.
Kim's mother was not spared from his violent temper. And
misogynous attitude either. He often verbally abused her. When Kime
(48:16):
left to Womba in his late teens to work on
a Central Queensland cattle station, he suffered a permanent back
injury while working on a property at Emerald. He would
never leave the Central Queensland region and loved fishing in
places like Mara and the Dawson River. Kime was in
(48:37):
and out of contact with his family. One relative remembers
when she learned Chime had been charged with the murder
of Queenie Hart in nineteen seventy five. She spoke with
Rockhampton police, who confirmed what she'd seen on the news.
Speaker 6 (48:55):
She told me, I was shattered that it could happen
in our family. Shocked, but when you look back in hindsight,
the writing was on the wall.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
The relative wrote to Chime while he was in Townsville
jail on remand for Queene's murder, and recalled that in
a return letter, he wrote that he did not belong
behind bars. Kime's family members were not aware of his
connection to the Margaret Kirstenfeldt case, but were not surprised
when I told them about it. A female relative visited
(49:29):
Chime in Serena in nineteen eighty one or nineteen eighty two,
when he was still residing on Serena Beach Road and
still working as a fetler for Queensland.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
Rail He was working in the railway at Serena. He
was at home and pleasantly surprised to see me. He
tore down the front yard and we just cuddled each
other and cried. And so he did have a really
sensitive side.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Like his stepdaughter, Leanne remembers. The relative says he was
living with a white woman at the ti time.
Speaker 6 (50:00):
He had been living with a white lady. She later
left him because he was bashing her all the time.
She was pregnant to him and he was bashing her.
She was lovely.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
She remembers witnessing his volcanic temper first hand.
Speaker 6 (50:16):
One night, I bought fish and chips for dinner. There
was a little girl, I'm not sure if she was
Steven's daughter, and she was about two years old. She
had a little bread and butterplate with fish and chips,
and she put her fork into the chip and bit
it off and hung onto the fork. And Stephen flew
into a rage. I said, why did you go crook
at her? She's only a baby, he said. She knows
(50:37):
every time she has a bite of food, she had
to put her knife and fork back on the table.
I thought you prick. I could have picked up that
little one and taken her home. The mom just sat
there and didn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
She was probably too scared. The relative remembers crime, telling
her that he changed his name to Christopher Edward Turner,
claiming it was to avoid paying maintenance to Betty for
their two children. Something that has always intrigued me about
Stephen Khime is not only how similar he was to
(51:12):
serial killer and rapist Leonard Fraser in looks, age, and demeanor,
but the fact that they resided and worked so near
to each other for a number of years, yet claim
to have never crossed paths. Both men say they first
met in Rockhampton Prison in the nineteen nineties, while Fraser
(51:34):
was serving twelve years for rape and Chime was twice
jailed for drink driving offenses. This is part of the
interview I recorded with Kime in two thousand and three,
which we have managed to retrieve from an old cassette tape.
It's start from the beginning.
Speaker 5 (51:53):
We actually met Gould work was a little bit and
you know, in the dairy and I would the field
test and all that.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
What was I talk in part?
Speaker 5 (52:10):
Just well he was looking after field test. You know,
he didn't seem bad black at the time, didn't start
working on the dairy.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
What was your first impression of in when the room?
Speaker 5 (52:24):
No, what's your first compression of anyone when you made him?
You know, I didn't know he was a nipple, but
then you know where it gets rained and then a
little crisis.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Did he tell you what now he was in?
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Yeh?
Speaker 4 (52:37):
Did he saw a life on it?
Speaker 3 (52:39):
No?
Speaker 5 (52:40):
Just living down two o'clock that air you know you
appeared on the dray Bourne Center or letter sar did
my work let him do?
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Is?
Speaker 5 (52:48):
That was just lived in the same sob so did
me two or three months or whatever it was. And
I got picked up the day day again, didn't I
nice child? I went back, did not wasn't going to
play the colin you shut up the winning James Ober
here looking at coming in the bloodying Yeah, so what
(53:10):
do you think that I think about it? You know,
you get to have a couple of months or whatever
it was under us.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
But back in nineteen eighty one when Fraser was released
on parole from a New South Wales jail for a
series of rapes. He moved back to Queensland to his parents'
home at a caravan park at Abbot's Point that's about
two hundred and eighty kilometers north of Serena. Fraser was
(53:46):
soon jailed for two months for assaulting a woman in Mackay,
and after his release in September nineteen eighty two, he
again went to live with his parents, who by this
time were living in the Moana caravan park at Hayes Point,
just twenty kilometers from Serena. Fraser then moved to Mackay,
(54:09):
where he lived with his de facto wife, Pearl stepson
and their daughter, Missy. Pearl came from a large Serena family.
Like crime, Fraser worked for Queensland Rail employed as a ganger.
In nineteen eighty five, Fraser raped a woman at Shoal Point,
(54:32):
about fifty kilometers north of Serena. The geographical proximity of
the two men and their shared employer adds to the theory
of some police that the two men knew each other
long before they were incarcerated together, and perhaps even had
committed crimes together. Two men, both with fierce tempers, who
(54:57):
were opportunistic sexual predators. There remains unsolved cases of missing
women in the areas near where the pair resided, dating
back to the nineteen seventies, but of course nothing definite
to link them. Stephen Khim's alcoholism and violence towards women
(55:22):
continued until his death. He was eating out of jail
for domestic violence offenses. The female relative who stayed in
contact with crime said when she visited his home in
Yapoon in the early two thousands, he beat his then
de facto wife until she was black and blue. Such
(55:46):
was his behavior, his relatives said she never allowed Chime
to be alone with her children or grandchildren. As soon
as we find out more on this case, we'll let
you know. Before we go. A shout out to Margaret
(56:12):
Kirstenfeld's daughter Leslie, who's been meticulously going through documents and
our podcast notes to find any inconsistencies or ambiguities, any
shred of a clue that might shed light on her
mother's death. Until next time, if you have information about
(56:49):
the Margaret Kirstenfeld case, please let us know. Email us
at Pendulum podcast at gmail dot com, or go to
seven news dot com dot Au Forward Slash Pendulum presenter
(57:12):
and executive producer Paula Donovan, writer and producer Sally Eels.
Sound design Mark Wright, Graphics Jason Blandford, Producer Annette Caltabiano.
Transcripts Charlie Dally Watkins. Our theme music is the Clock
(57:33):
is Ticking by dark org Music. See our show notes
for full music credits. With thanks to seven News Brisbane
Pendulum wishes to advise that some listeners may find parts
of the following podcast episode Confronting It contains details of
sexual violence and trauma Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander. Listeners
are also advised that reference is made to deceased Indigenous people.
(00:27):
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mum dies violently in
a small Queensland town. Suicide or murder? What happened to
Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows? This is Pendulum episode fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm Paula Donovan. We said we'd be back if we
found out some more information, so here we are. Several
weeks ago, I received an email out of the blue
about Stephen Khme, as revealed last episode. He's the man
who was originally charged with the murder of Queenie Hart
(01:32):
in Rockhampton in nineteen seventy five and was living just
down the road from Margaret Kirstenfeld in Serena when she
suffered a brutal death in nineteen seventy eight. Climb died
last September as we were carrying out our investigation. Anyway,
(01:56):
this woman who reached out said she hadn't heard of
this podcast, had never listened to an episode, but she
had stumbled across an article I'd written about this man
from her past. Like others we've already spoken with in
previous episodes, Stephen Kim had cast a devastating shadow on
her childhood. My article dredged up memories she wanted to
(02:19):
forget but couldn't. After some back and forth messaging via email,
she agreed to speak with me on the phone. What
we both discovered was that she and her mother hold
vital clues to this case, the integral pieces that might
bring the puzzle together. She doesn't want her name revealed,
(02:44):
but we can say she once lived in Kyme's Rockhampton
home as his stepdaughter. Her mother was Kime's wife and
was on the train with him when he was arrested
by police for the murder of Queenie Hart in nineteen
seventy five. Interestingly, the woman and her mother both said
police did not speak with them at the time of
(03:06):
Queeny's murder or since for the purpose of this podcast,
we'll call this woman Leanne and her mother Betty. After
our chat, Leanne agreed to contact Betty to see if
she would be interviewed. She said yes, but only because
I assured her that Stephen Kim was now dead. If
(03:28):
he was still alive, she wouldn't have done it. Betty
is elderly now Asian her seventies and suffering some hearing loss.
She wanted me to travel to her to sit with
her during our interview. However, at the time it was impossible.
She lives in central Queensland and I'm several hundred kilometers
(03:52):
away in Brisbane. It was the peak of the COVID
nineteen lockdown and stretched travel bands were in place. It
had to be a fine interview. Hello, Hi, Hi, how
are you going?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah? Good? Thanks.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
So insteadly Anne sat with her mum, Hello, hi, as
she answered my many questions. Could you tell me how
you came to meet Stephen Khim?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, I'm not in that spring Shaw and then nah,
I'm mat him again. Y, that's when we got married.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
What were you both doing in spring Shaw at the time.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Yeah, I lived there and he was working out there.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Like a like on a cattle station or something.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Do you remember what year that would have been?
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Oh, yeah, I don't know, A long time.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Ago, nineteen seventy.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, no, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
What were your first impressions of him.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Oh no, no, oh, it was all right then now.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
You know you moved to rock Hampton and that's where
you So how did you meet up with him again there?
I and you had a relationship with him, Yeah, and
then you married him. Betty says the couple got married
in the courthouse. There was no family from either side
(05:20):
in attendance, and she can't remember the exact date the
ceremony took place. In fact, they are still married, having
never divorced. What was he doing at the time when
you married him? Do you remembers at the Lake Creeks Meatworks?
(05:41):
Do you know what he was doing there?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Networks?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
And I played?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
How would you have described him back then then? Beginning
so treated you well?
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yet did he talk much about himself or his past
or family?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Did he know not much?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Had they lived into Woomboo and yeah, and so he
was at there for.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Work in Rockhampton?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And did he tell you what his what his childhood
was like, what his family were like?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
No, he never should spoke about him much.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Do you know how far he went? Say in school?
Did he go through the grade ten or did he
drop out early?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Early? You never spoke about himself much.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Do you know how long you were married to him?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Four? No, it wasn't along Okay, all.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Right, do you remember how he proposed? No?
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Really?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So you had children to a previous relationship that you had,
a boy and a girl. Yeah, And how did he
treat them?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
First? First?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:53):
First, treat him well?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
It was cruel.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
He was cruel to them.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Can you tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Into the main.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I'm sorry I didn't quite catch up. What were the
reasons for him doing that? So he wouldn't need a
reason to say discipline or he wouldn't say he would
just he would just hit them up.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It was.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
He drinking a lot when he was with you?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Was he drinking when those sort of things happened to
your kids?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Did he used to do that to you too?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yes, yeah, sure he's drinking a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
He would turn violent? Yeah he So did this violent
start before or after you were married?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Did it seem like a Jekyll and Hyde type of
character that he was? It wasn't long into the marriage
before Betty fell pregnant, and for a time Chime seemed happy,
but it didn't last. He beat Betty when she was
(08:19):
pregnant with both his son and later his daughter at
home in the street anytime. Betty never went to hospital
for treatment, and she never complained to police. When the
babies were born, Betty says, Chime even hurt them too.
(08:41):
Can you tell me what he would do? So he
would just start hitting hitting the baby?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Could do when I'm.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Me?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Then, she says that sometimes the neighbors would call the police.
Did the police ever come in to help you or
did anyone?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Nah?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Oh, it might have come and just you know, talked, went,
Oh that didn't help much.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Did you feel like you weren't believed by the police.
I think would Stephen punish you if the police turned up?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Do you remember what you used to fight about? What?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
What?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Apart from him drinking? Was there anything in particular?
Speaker 4 (09:27):
No, she seems to want to fight all not every day,
but you know, yeah, you can do it often. Yeah,
a bad tamper.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Eventually, Betty says she couldn't cope with Crime's violence any longer,
so she took her four children and escaped to her
mother's home at Mount Morgan. Chime's biological son and daughter
were any babies at that time. He had nothing more
to do with them. But back in April nineteen seventy five,
(10:07):
Betty was still living with Stephen Khme and this was
the time the body of an Aboriginal woman named Queenie
Hart was found naked bound in Rockhampton's Fitzroy River. Betty
remembers being on the train with her husband and children
(10:27):
days after the gruesome discovery. They were heading out to
Springshaw to see a family member when police suddenly swooped.
Were you with Stephen when he was arrested?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Were you on a train with him.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Springshaw?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Why was that? What can you tell me how that
came about?
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Oh? The police come and took him off the training.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I saw that.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Were you first aware of his involvement with the Queeny
Heart matter when the police arrested him on.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
That train.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
And he just took him back to the rock at all?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Where were you when all this was happening? Did they
take you back to or just him?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Just so?
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Where did you go to Springdshore on the train?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Did the police say why they were arresting him?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
No?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Not much, not at all.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So were you surprised at all that they had turned
up and stopped the train and do you remember what
happened next? Then there was a there was a committal
hearing and he was committed for trial. Do you remember
that time? So you stayed out at Spring Share? Was
(11:47):
that your own choice or what he asked you to do?
Were you in contact with him?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
No, you didn't go to the trial. Did he ever
talk to you about Queeny Heart? Can you remember when
he said that to you?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
I remember?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Do you remember how it came up? It was that
after the trial or before the trial? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I didn't trial.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
He walked out of court free on the first day
of trial, so he walked away from it. But do
you remember whether he said that to you before or
after he walked free?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Oh? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Sometime ago when he said it to you. Do you
remember what the circumstances were for him to come out
and admit that he'd actually killed her?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Oh? No, was prob it back on Rocker?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And did he give you any detail as to what
he did?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Oh? He said he did later on.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So he said he killed Queeny Hart. Did he mention
her by name? No, he said he did it and
then he and and he said he was going to
do it to you.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Too, Yeah, it away.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Did you think he was serious?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
But I serious. He put a knife on me and
everything I was up frightened to him. He was brogging
my kids at the time. I won them.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So this was just before you went to Mount Morgan.
Had he ever pulled a knife on you before?
Speaker 4 (13:26):
A lot of times?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I didn't want to think about it anymore.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Do you want to keep talking
or do you want to.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
And I don't want it anymore?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay, all right, would you mind putting on the phone. Yeah, okay,
thank you, thank you. So Betty passed the phone back
to her daughter, Klim's step daughter, the one we call Leanne.
Betty wouldn't talk anymore after that. Clearly the memories are
too traumatic. But as you heard, she recalls Chime telling
(14:04):
her he killed Queenie, and she remembers him threatening to
do the same to her, describing how he held a
knife to her throat, hearing that it's not hard to
draw parallels with the Margaret Kirstenfeld case. Margaret died from
being slashed across the throat with a knife. As Betty
(14:28):
didn't want to talk anymore, I spoke to her daughter Leanne.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Hello, Hey, you going?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, she didn't didn't seem to want to talk. I
don't know whether it's going to be different if I
could get up there. Do you think that would make
a difference.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, I think it's just one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
She struggled like that. Yeah, yeah, okay, but.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
If you actually sat with her, I think it should
be a bit more about it, relaxed. Yeah, okay, Well
the problem kids? All right?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Just in case I can't get up while I have
you here, can I interview you as well? Would that
be all right? Okay? Okay? So could you tell me
how old you were when Stephen Kime came into your
mother's life.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
My earliest memory would be about five, because i'd started
grade one. That's my earliest memory.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Whereabouts? Was that when you were at the Rock, Caampton School?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah? I was going to Berska State School. Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
And do you remember what your first impressions of him were?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
No? See, I'll explain something. I had workplace injury, like
a couple of years ago, and I had to see
a psychologist and I've got, proudly i've got a suppressed
memory from that, like from age eight. I can tell
your stuff. But before that it's just little things that
I can remember. And my psychologists worked with me to
(15:54):
try and bring up some bad things that happened, and
I've suppressed them, but I will try and remember what
I can. Yeah, there must be really bad things for
me to suppress, she said.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
So Leanne has been seeing a psychologist and has very
little recollection of events that happened in her early childhood years.
She tells me she does remember being sexually abused by
Time when she was around eight years old, and it
wasn't long after that that her mother left him.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And I'm thinking, well, it wouldn't seem right because why
would he have done it just the once when I
was eight and never again. This was left soon after,
but I'm pretty sure something happened before that. But it's
just that when I work with my psychologists, like, we
couldn't dreads that up, Like I don't know if it
was too painful or I didn't want to remember or
(16:45):
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I don't want to push you into any any I.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Don't want to. You can remember what I can, like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Just just talk to me about what life was like.
If you can remember whatever, you can remember when when
he first came your Mum doesn't know when she married him.
But do you have any recollection of what Stephen what
when he came into your life, what life was.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Like he came into our lives and back and I
didn't know that marriage or nothing, but yeah, they got
married apparently, and then like he was good of the
start with, like we were made for him dad and
all that, and then you know when he started like
drinking all the time and bashing mum and like my
(17:30):
mom said, he used to like bash us, and that's
something I can't even remember, yeah, because she said, no,
he used to me and my brother and I can't
remember that, Like, yeah, why I can't I remember because obviously, yeah,
I've obviously suppressed anyway. But yeah, he just changed, like
and then he'd have some good days, like we'd be
like a normal family, and you know, he'd come home
(17:51):
drunk and bashed mom and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And where would you and your brother be when that
was happening.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
He would do it in front of us, like drag
her from room to room by the hair, like punching her,
kicking her in front of us, and or sometimes he'd
go unlock her in the room and we could hear
her coming bouncing off the walls and screaming, and we're
trying to get in. He'd locked the door, and we
didn't know like if when they came out, if my
(18:21):
mom would come out or she'd be dad. We didn't
know any of that. He's just yeah, just it became
like a normal life for us, Like you know, you'd
have a couple of good days, were normal family, and
that would happen. Yeah, very unpredictable, it was.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Did he ever speak to you or to your mom
about the violence? Did he ever try and apologize? Did
he explain justify?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
No, not to our kids, but I know with mom,
like after a bashing, like the next day, she'd be
laying in bed or bruised up and laying with a
piece of steak on her eye, and he'll be there
getting a cup of tea and stuff like that, and
we're thinking, no, you know, everything's going to be all
right now, Like you know, he's talking nice to it
and giving her a cup of tea, Like it just
(19:09):
became a normal way of life. When kids see that
and they just get used to it, you know, did.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You still feel scared seeing that?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah? See, like, oh they're happy again. So we'd be happy,
and then two days later it happened again. It's just like, yeah,
it just messes with a little kid's head. I reckon.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And how about your brother, how did he chape?
Speaker 6 (19:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well he was eighteen months older than me, and he
was always we're really close because back then he was
like a protector. He'd always sorry, I'm.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Sure, that's okay, it's just take your time. If you
want to stop, just tell me. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Now, he'd always try and protect me. Well, he wasn't
much older than me, and that's why we're still very
close to this day, because he was only and I
hadn't really like he couldn't do much like you know,
he was only a little skinny fellow. But he always
(20:10):
made sure like he'd go and hide me, put me
under the bed.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Would Stephen come looking for you.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
No, it's just like because when we were watching their
mum get bashed, and then I'd just be screaming and
he would just take me by the hand and put
me under the bed so I couldn't hear or see anything.
But you can still hear it through the old house,
mum screaming.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Leanne says as she hid under the bed, listening to
her mother being beaten in another room. Her brother would
stay with her.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, I hit today. He'd just sit on the bed
and make sure I just stayed under the bed.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Like sounds like an amazing older brother.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Time fathered Land's two half siblings, but she can only
remember when one of them was born.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I only remember when I was born because I woke
up in mom's bed and my cousin was in the
bed with me, and she's like, oh, your mom's going
to have the baby, mi AUNI had come from Springshield,
And then I just remember Mom coming home with the
little baby, and then I can't. I've got no memory
(21:32):
of being born and coming home.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Do you have any memories of how your stepfather, how
he was with.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
He didn't seem that much time for him, like you
know on the good days, if you like, bouncing them
on his knee and everything. But then the same thing
would happen a couple of days later, just like to
throw the kids in the cot and start bashing mom.
So then men would step in, and you had had
the babies and anything like that.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So you had to take care of your younger siblings.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, just keep them.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
In the room.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Are you okay? Do you want to keep going?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, no, it's okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Did you ever see your stepfather harm?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, he'd like that kind in the cot, sling them
out with one arm. Or if they're like playing and
they're too loud, like you'd pick them up by one arm,
drag them into the room where the cops were, and
just throw them into the cot by the one arm,
Like if you had a rag doll, just fling it
(22:44):
into the cot.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
How old would they have been?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
One would have been probably two and a half and one,
like they were pretty close in age, and yeah, like
they were titled and toddlers walking around playing and that.
But if they got on his nerves, he'd just pick
him up one arm and drag him and sling him
into the cot, sell him to shut up.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Do you know what it would take to upset your stepfather?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Oh, like if you're too noisy, or you didn't address
him properly, or if you like wanted your mum's attention
and he wanted all the her attention, anything like that
would set him.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Well, how are you meant to address him dad?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
If you never said dad, like you just talked to
him and then he'd say, well, who am I? And
you just look at him and he goes, who the
fuck am I? And I'll be like, dad, you know,
because you knew you had to say that word, even
though he wasn't my dad.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Did you ever meet any of your stepfather's family at all?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Any friends would come over to the house.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
No.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I think maybe one or two workmates would come over.
That was when we moved to Dennison Street. When he
was on the railway, Like a couple of these workmates
would come over and drink with him, and he used
to like even bash mum in front of them, like
and they just sit there, don't like it.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Was a show.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Did you ever go and try and get help for
your mum or yourselves, like.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
When she's been bashed? Yeah, yeah, like we've run next
door and or not at Dennison Street, but they didn't
know the neighbors. But in Connor Street, we knew the
next door neighbors. They were really nice and then me
just run over there and they just knew when we
knocked on the door that they had to ring the police.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
So when the police did turn out, what happened, we just.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Go into the room, but like they'd just be standing
there talking and then they just drive away. They didn't. No,
I don't think they ever offered, like to get an
ambulance or any medical help the mum, even though she'd
be standing, the blood all over and busted lips or lifts,
you know that. I don't think she ever went away
(25:10):
in an amblance or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
How did your mother get through? I mean, apart from
obviously the horrific nature of what was happening to her psychologically,
mentally and emotionally, the physical side of that violence, how
did she survive?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I don't know. She's a very strong lady, Like she
broke her knives and she's got scars on her face
to day from him that never went away.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
How did he cause those scars?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Like punching like she would punch her like she was
a man. She's got an awful lot of scars on her.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Did you ever see him with knives? No? Where were
you living in nineteen seventy five at Easter around Easter time?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
He would have been at Jennison Street, the railway house,
so would have been seven.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Actually no, if I said no, we would have been
still at Connor street of Lake Creek Road.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And he was working for the railway.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
No, I'm not sure if he was on the railway
then or is it at the meatbooks, But I know
Mom was still at the meat books.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Do you remember anything about that time at all?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Being on a train, Yeah, that's one memory that like
I just remember the train stopped and then we were
getting happy this over here, but then the police can
everyone jump on and they're just looking and then mums
just said, oh, we're going to see Grannie like her mum.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Did the police say anything?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
No?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Did it surprise you?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, because like we're wondering why the police was taking him,
and Mum just said, oh no, it's all what We're
still going on a holiday, Like she just tried to
keep us, you know occupied, Like yeah, and I didn't
find it for years later, like what had actually happened?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
How did how did you learn about what happened?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Well, Mum told me.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That Leanne learned of the murder in a very different way.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
He told mom he was working late that night, but
it was I think it was his payday. And then
me and my mum we walked right from Conness Street
to I think it was called a Victoria Pub and
he wasn't there, and then we walked all the way
back home because she was waiting for the money to
go and for food, and then so walked came and
(27:44):
he came home that night, and that's when he said
to her that he had killed a lady. And then
he told her how he done it and everything, and
then then he said, yeah, well, if you say anything,
I'm going to do it to you, like and I
remember an there.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So he confessed in front of you as well as
your mom.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah yeah, because then mum got scared and then she
put us in the room and then she came in
and she laid on the bed. But that was after
he said it. And then the next day she's like, oh,
you know, we have to leave, like, you know, he's
killed a woman. Michael can't stay here. But then she
(28:26):
was scared to go because he was said, like she
left him and took his kids, he'd track it down
and kill her. And then when she's been out, he'd
actually killed a lady. Like she took him very serious,
Like she was so scared, like and back then, like
she didn't have anywhere that she could run through, you know,
(28:47):
she was that scared, we didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And so just just take me back through that night
that he comes home to the house. What what do
you remember or is this what your mom's told you?
Speaker 3 (28:59):
No, I was there when he said it. So they
were arguing because Mum said, well it's paiday, Like, what
didn't you come home? We needed money and he's going
to you know, started squaring at her and I'll go
to the fucking pub when I want and spend the money.
And then he's like, yeah, well I just killed a
woman's And then Mum like obviously got shocked. And then
(29:21):
he's like, yeah, well you know, I just kill her
and stuff like that. Mom's standing there like she was
like really, And then I'm thinking, no, he must be
just saying that scared her, like so she won't look
for money, That's what I was thinking. But yeah, it
was just he was quite serious, and even Mum like
(29:42):
really really got scared after that. She knew but if
he wanted to kill her, he would, Well.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Who decided they were going to then leave Rockhampton to
catch that train.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Well this is what I well, now that you think,
but he must have thought, well, it's get out of town.
It was just like get your babe. We've run on
the train and like mom tried to make it fun.
I was going to see Granny and anything, but he
was all serious, like you it was probably weird time
to go on a holiday.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Like when he came home that night, do you remember
what he looked like?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
He had his worked clothes on because it was only
one light on. It was in the kitchen and we
were in the lounge and it was dark when he
walked in. There was a light coming from the kitchen.
And I'm just like I remember sitting there like in
my friend left pajamas like and like I think Mum
(30:41):
tried to chase me to bed, like when she heard
him coming, because she's thinking, oh, you're going to come
home and fash her now, because she went looking for
him for the money and I was pay day. But
I just sat there and it was just he just
started going off his head.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Do you remember what he told your mum?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
He said, I kill the black something. I don't even
know what. It was a derogatory word or something. I
don't know if it was slap or or or something.
Her Mom's just like, oh yeah, whatever, you know. I
didn't believe him at first, except yeah, I've killed her
freaking through in the river. It was like he was
(31:24):
proud of himself, like he was telling her, look, I've
done it, so there's nothing stopping me from doing it
to you. So for like probably two more years, like
she was that scared, like to not cross him, for
the fact that she knew all that time that he
had killed a woman, and like he pretty much said
she could be next, like like, I don't know how
(31:47):
any woman could like live like that, you know, no,
in the next passion, like maybe you might pull a
knife out and just stabbed me. Like I couldn't live
like that. I don't know how she did it, And
she was too scared to go, like no, he was
going to track it down and kill her. And she
had like four kids, like you know, I don't know
(32:10):
it would have been so hard.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Did any of you have the chance to talk to
the police or did the police come and speak with
your mum or you and your brother?
Speaker 5 (32:22):
No?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
No, like after that, it was pretty much kept from us,
Like mom never spoke about it again. She said he
was in jail, and then because he wasn't around, like
and we didn't sort of register like to say, oh, well,
you know, maybe it's true, like what he said, like
(32:43):
you killed a woman, but no saying to jail. We
didn't think that. Just like she said, he went to jail,
and he wasn't gone very long because the things were
happy for a while while he wasn't there, and then
he came back and it all went back to how
it was.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
When Kim returned home, the violence returned.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
To it seemed to get worse. Actually it was more
like maybe it was like once a week, and then
it got to two or three times a week, like
my poor mum, like she didn't even have find bruises
or anything for hell before the next facing. Like he
(33:29):
seemed to be more cruel to his own kids for
some reason. They were only babies, but they got so.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Much so he didn't care how young they were.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Maybe maybe and maybe because they were his flesh and blood,
and he'll do the damn well whatever he wants to him,
you know, like he married mom, so that's his possession,
his woman. He can do whatever he wants to them.
It's all about power and control and his possessions.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So the violence started to increase. What made your mother
finally leave him?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I'm not sure because I know, like I told you
how I woke up and he was in my room
touching me, And it wasn't too long after that because
Mum asked me about it the next morning. I don't
know how she knew, like whether he told her he
had done it, or but it wasn't too long after
(34:26):
that that we left, So I don't know if it
was because she was scared, like you know, he's going
to keep sexually molesting me, or whether he's doing it
to his own daughter. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Was that, as far as you know, the only incident.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, yeah, And that's what I said to my psychologist.
It can't be. He can't just do that once when
I'm at an age where I can tell on him,
like why would he? It must have done it before that,
but I've suppressed it, and she's like, obviously, yeah, like
with bad things like that, it's just something when you
(35:06):
don't want to remember something, you can suppress it where
it doesn't come back to you. But I just find
it hard to believe that it was only the one time,
and when I was eight, when I could actually tell
on him. He just doesn't seem right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
It was the sexual abuse of her daughter that proved
the final straw for Betty Leanne remembers it happened when
her mum wasn't around, she was asleep or out, and
Kim had been plying her and her brother with beer.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
And then I remember this night. I was kept telling
us to drink the beer, drink the beer, and I
was getting sick and it took me to the toilet
and I stewed, and then I went to bed. And
that was the night that he came in when he
sort of like I was. He was sort of shaking me.
He's like, you want too, Bob, and I'm like no,
(36:02):
because it was a nice time. I couldn't go to
the shop, you know, And I'm like no, and then
he's just like, I'll give you too, Bob. We kept
saying it, and that's when he like pulled my pants
down and started molesting me, and I just sort of
made myself like just later and I just fell back
to sleep because I didn't want to be there.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Did he say anything to you the next day.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
No, because he had already he went to work. And
then we were getting ready for school, and I said.
Mom came in the room and she sat on the
bed and she stilled me in front of her and
she's like, did something happen last night? I'm like no,
She's like, tell me, did something happen. I'm like no,
I did he touch you? And I'm like no. It's
like I just kept saying no.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Were you? Were you too scared? Or why I.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Think it was. I just pushed it back with the
other memories, like I didn't want to remember. I didn't
want to speak it. I didn't want my mom like
if she want, you know, she found out what she
would get another bar, she knows something like if she
approached him about it, and I doesn't want to be
the cause of that. From that time on was blanked
(37:19):
out until that night in the middle of the night
when she wake us up, until we're going. So in
between that time to the time he left, I can't
sort of remember.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Much when you left and you went to Mount Morgan. Yeah,
was that the last time he saw Stephen Cohn n He.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Came to Mount Morgan. I don't know how much long
because Mum had put us into school and then we
went We were staying with my grandmother, and then we
got home from school and he was there and he
wanted to see babies, and he'd like tried to talk
to me. We sort of thinking, no, no, we're going
back to him, but Mom didn't go back to me.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Liane's half sister did go and stay with her father
at one point. By this stage, the little girl was
about seven years old. Kim had moved on with another
woman and had two more daughters. Bizarrely, he named them
after the children he shared with Betty. Kim had requested
his daughter come stay with him during the school holidays.
(38:29):
Betty wasn't happy about it, but didn't think she could
say no.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
And then she told me something today, like I didn't
even know what it was a memory, but I wasn't
sure if it had actually happened, like she told me
when it was about seven that was living with another
lady and then they had two daughters together, and then
(38:56):
he wanted to dig up and meet her sisters and stuff,
so he took her to Serena for two weeks. And
then I didn't even know that. And Mom told me
today and I'm like, but wasn't you scared that, like
you would never bring it back? He's like, she said, yeah,
I was, but he asked for her, like for the holidays,
and wanted to meet the stepmother and her sisters like
(39:19):
and like, yeah, it was something I had at the
back of my mind, but like it was like, oh,
did that happen? But you know, one of their memories.
And then I got a shop and Mum actually said yeah,
that had actually happened, and then came back. She was
pretty traumatized because she had to watch her stepmother getting
(39:41):
bashed like every day.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Kim never provided support for his children and he never
married another woman.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
No, because Mum and him never got divorced.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Leanne had no idea Stephen Kahim had changed his name
to Chris Turner until she read my articles. But Betty
was aware and she knew he'd been living in Serena.
Did they ever talk about the death of Mara Personfeld
at Serena?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Oh, there was an article on Sunday Mail. Would have
been two thousand and eight or two thousand and nine.
I stayed with Mum and then she always made a thing.
She always got the morning bullet and she always got
the Sunday Mail. So I'm just sitting there and she's like, oh,
I'll see that article there, and I'm like oh, and
(40:31):
I'm reading and She's like, yeah, he done that, And
I'm like who. She's like that bighead and I'm like, well, like, yeah,
he's done it again, Like he's done it again, Like
she kept saying it.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
How did she know?
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Was it because it had mentioned Queenie Hart.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Maybe, but she just that's what she said, he did that.
And I'm like, well, whom, Mum, Like I didn't just
she never said his name, just said he did it
the dickcare and like and then like that's when we
sort of realized how he had associations with Leonard Fraser
and all that and yeah, but Mum was just adamant,
(41:12):
like she just knew.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
So how has your mum lived in respect to seven
time since she since he left.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
She just can't be with anyone, like she has trust things,
like she's scared of violence and everything. So she's been
alone without a man for like wow, years and years,
like probably twenty five years. Like it's just something like
because she's been so scarred over, you know, just been
(41:44):
bashed and like it's not normal to her, Like she
just doesn't want to be in a relationship and have
that fear in her life, Like like she just wouldn't
trust a man like if he raised his voice, like
she'd honestly think that she was going to get bashed
straight up, Like.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yeah, and is there is there anything else that you
can share with this about Stephen Kim.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
No, just like the world's a better place now that
he's gone. But saying that, I feel sorry for the ladies'
families that involved in this and wanted to answer and closure,
I'm sorry for that, but honestly, the world's better off
without him.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And why did you feel the need to contact us
the Pendulum podcast, Like my.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Mum put to share her story and what she knew,
and like I didn't think I was going to be involved,
but obviously I had something I had to say. So
I just thought I was reading about the two ladies
and their families and you know how much that they
were when he had died, and like they're never going
(42:59):
to get in, So I just thought I'd reach out
and just let him know that we knew stuff and
knew him and how he treated people.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
The information provided by Leanne and her mother about Stephen
Khin has never been investigated or substantiated by police. While
he was never charged, a pattern of behavior has emerged
in allegations from former partners, stepchildren, and even relatives who
(43:43):
grew up alongside him. Kim was a chronic alcoholic, predatory, menacing,
and cruel prone to sexually, physically and emotionally abusing the
women and children in his life, babies, pregnant women, teenage babysitters.
(44:06):
His violence knew no bounds. He was controlling and had
a snap temper, easily triggered and got enjoyment from humiliating
his Aboriginal partners and all their children in front of
his drinking buddies. He called them names and would often
(44:27):
refer to Indigenous women in very derogatory terms. Kim was
also someone who hid escaping detection by changing his identity
and not leaving much of a footprint. He never appeared
on an elector role, property deed or telephone book. He
(44:49):
had mentioned he was born into Womba, which I suspected
was a lie until I finally tracked down his relatives
to Woomba is the regional capital of Queensland's Darling Downs
and not far from the small town of jen Dowie
where Margaret Kirstenfeldt grew up. Khine's family members also painted
(45:10):
a sinister picture revealing the dark, violent pass of a
man who preyed on women. They believed he had the
propensity to kill, also saying he'd beat a woman black
and blue until he got what he wanted. These relatives
only spoke to me on the condition of anonymity. They
(45:34):
said Kim grew up with a father who was also
violent to women, a man who forced his wife to
cook for his mistresses. There was also some sexual violence
within the home he grew up, but relatives are unsure
whether Chime was aware of it. His mother believed her
(45:55):
husband once tried to kill her by electrocution, and, according
to relatives, on her wedding day, every instinct told her
to run away, but instead she walked down the aisle.
When Kim's father finally left his family in the nineteen sixties,
(46:16):
his departure was a relief. Kime attended a local state
school and was good with his hands, pottery, woodwork, and
fixing things. He quit school in year ten for a
job at a local bacon factory. He was a keen
fisherman who always carried knives, mostly with a serrated edge,
(46:37):
which he used to gut fish, but unlike his wife, Betty.
Relatives never saw Chime threaten anyone with a knife. In
his teens, Chime was known as a bodgy, the Australian
version of the American greasa. He hung out of the
city Milk Bar in Rothven Street in to Woomba. Around
(47:03):
this time, he was caught spying through the bathroom window
at his oldest sister as she showered. After this, his
relationship with his family deteriorated. His sister was absolutely horrified.
Another relative referred to Chime as a mongrel who enjoyed
degrading women. He used the saying the stork or walk
(47:27):
nineteen seventy slang men used to force sex from female
hitchhikers or women who got into their cars. The women,
who were sometimes on dates, would be driven to isolated
bush spots and told they would have to walk home
unless they had sex with the mail driver or gave
a sexual favor. One of Kim's first girlfriends told members
(47:52):
of his family she had to leave the relationship as
she was worried his beatings would eventually kill her. It
would have been about eighteen or nineteen at the time.
Kim's mother was not spared from his violent temper. And
misogynous attitude either. He often verbally abused her. When Kime
(48:16):
left to Womba in his late teens to work on
a Central Queensland cattle station, he suffered a permanent back
injury while working on a property at Emerald. He would
never leave the Central Queensland region and loved fishing in
places like Mara and the Dawson River. Kime was in
(48:37):
and out of contact with his family. One relative remembers
when she learned Chime had been charged with the murder
of Queenie Hart in nineteen seventy five. She spoke with
Rockhampton police, who confirmed what she'd seen on the news.
Speaker 6 (48:55):
She told me, I was shattered that it could happen
in our family. Shocked, but when you look back in hindsight,
the writing was on the wall.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
The relative wrote to Chime while he was in Townsville
jail on remand for Queene's murder, and recalled that in
a return letter, he wrote that he did not belong
behind bars. Kime's family members were not aware of his
connection to the Margaret Kirstenfeldt case, but were not surprised
when I told them about it. A female relative visited
(49:29):
Chime in Serena in nineteen eighty one or nineteen eighty two,
when he was still residing on Serena Beach Road and
still working as a fetler for Queensland.
Speaker 6 (49:40):
Rail He was working in the railway at Serena. He
was at home and pleasantly surprised to see me. He
tore down the front yard and we just cuddled each
other and cried. And so he did have a really
sensitive side.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Like his stepdaughter, Leanne remembers. The relative says he was
living with a white woman at the ti time.
Speaker 6 (50:00):
He had been living with a white lady. She later
left him because he was bashing her all the time.
She was pregnant to him and he was bashing her.
She was lovely.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
She remembers witnessing his volcanic temper first hand.
Speaker 6 (50:16):
One night, I bought fish and chips for dinner. There
was a little girl, I'm not sure if she was
Steven's daughter, and she was about two years old. She
had a little bread and butterplate with fish and chips,
and she put her fork into the chip and bit
it off and hung onto the fork. And Stephen flew
into a rage. I said, why did you go crook
at her? She's only a baby, he said. She knows
(50:37):
every time she has a bite of food, she had
to put her knife and fork back on the table.
I thought you prick. I could have picked up that
little one and taken her home. The mom just sat
there and didn't say anything.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
She was probably too scared. The relative remembers crime, telling
her that he changed his name to Christopher Edward Turner,
claiming it was to avoid paying maintenance to Betty for
their two children. Something that has always intrigued me about
Stephen Khime is not only how similar he was to
(51:12):
serial killer and rapist Leonard Fraser in looks, age, and demeanor,
but the fact that they resided and worked so near
to each other for a number of years, yet claim
to have never crossed paths. Both men say they first
met in Rockhampton Prison in the nineteen nineties, while Fraser
(51:34):
was serving twelve years for rape and Chime was twice
jailed for drink driving offenses. This is part of the
interview I recorded with Kime in two thousand and three,
which we have managed to retrieve from an old cassette tape.
It's start from the beginning.
Speaker 5 (51:53):
We actually met Gould work was a little bit and
you know, in the dairy and I would the field
test and all that.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
What was I talk in part?
Speaker 5 (52:10):
Just well he was looking after field test. You know,
he didn't seem bad black at the time, didn't start
working on the dairy.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
What was your first impression of in when the room?
Speaker 5 (52:24):
No, what's your first compression of anyone when you made him?
You know, I didn't know he was a nipple, but
then you know where it gets rained and then a
little crisis.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Did he tell you what now he was in?
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Yeh?
Speaker 4 (52:37):
Did he saw a life on it?
Speaker 3 (52:39):
No?
Speaker 5 (52:40):
Just living down two o'clock that air you know you
appeared on the dray Bourne Center or letter sar did
my work let him do?
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Is?
Speaker 5 (52:48):
That was just lived in the same sob so did
me two or three months or whatever it was. And
I got picked up the day day again, didn't I
nice child? I went back, did not wasn't going to
play the colin you shut up the winning James Ober
here looking at coming in the bloodying Yeah, so what
(53:10):
do you think that I think about it? You know,
you get to have a couple of months or whatever
it was under us.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
But back in nineteen eighty one when Fraser was released
on parole from a New South Wales jail for a
series of rapes. He moved back to Queensland to his parents'
home at a caravan park at Abbot's Point that's about
two hundred and eighty kilometers north of Serena. Fraser was
(53:46):
soon jailed for two months for assaulting a woman in Mackay,
and after his release in September nineteen eighty two, he
again went to live with his parents, who by this
time were living in the Moana caravan park at Hayes Point,
just twenty kilometers from Serena. Fraser then moved to Mackay,
(54:09):
where he lived with his de facto wife, Pearl stepson
and their daughter, Missy. Pearl came from a large Serena family.
Like crime, Fraser worked for Queensland Rail employed as a ganger.
In nineteen eighty five, Fraser raped a woman at Shoal Point,
(54:32):
about fifty kilometers north of Serena. The geographical proximity of
the two men and their shared employer adds to the theory
of some police that the two men knew each other
long before they were incarcerated together, and perhaps even had
committed crimes together. Two men, both with fierce tempers, who
(54:57):
were opportunistic sexual predators. There remains unsolved cases of missing
women in the areas near where the pair resided, dating
back to the nineteen seventies, but of course nothing definite
to link them. Stephen Khim's alcoholism and violence towards women
(55:22):
continued until his death. He was eating out of jail
for domestic violence offenses. The female relative who stayed in
contact with crime said when she visited his home in
Yapoon in the early two thousands, he beat his then
de facto wife until she was black and blue. Such
(55:46):
was his behavior, his relatives said she never allowed Chime
to be alone with her children or grandchildren. As soon
as we find out more on this case, we'll let
you know. Before we go. A shout out to Margaret
(56:12):
Kirstenfeld's daughter Leslie, who's been meticulously going through documents and
our podcast notes to find any inconsistencies or ambiguities, any
shred of a clue that might shed light on her
mother's death. Until next time, if you have information about
(56:49):
the Margaret Kirstenfeld case, please let us know. Email us
at Pendulum podcast at gmail dot com, or go to
seven news dot com dot Au Forward Slash Pendulum presenter
(57:12):
and executive producer Paula Donovan, writer and producer Sally Eels.
Sound design Mark Wright, Graphics Jason Blandford, Producer Annette Caltabiano.
Transcripts Charlie Dally Watkins. Our theme music is the Clock
(57:33):
is Ticking by dark org Music. See our show notes
for full music credits. With thanks to seven News Brisbane
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