July 28, 2019 • 35 mins
Margaret leaves home with dreams of love, marriage and babies. She's keen to begin her adult life in a new town. But homesickness and the reality of day-to-day life wear her down.
Credits:
Presenter / Investigative Crime Journalist - Paula Doneman
Producer / Writer - Sally Eeles
Sound Design - Marc Wright
TV reporter - Mackenzie Ravn
Graphics - Jason Blandford
With thanks to:
The team at 7 News Brisbane, Annette Caltabiano, Georgia Done, Letitia Wallace, Susan Bush, Alex Wright Media, The Daily Mercury and Mackay City Council Library.
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"Truth in the Stones" by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com)
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HAPPY UKULELE by Jason Shaw
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mum dies violently in
a small Queensland town. Suicide or murder? What happened to
Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
This is Pendulum Episode two.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I'm Paula Donoman. In late nineteen seventy five, at just
seventeen years of age, Margaret finds out she's going to
be a mum. In August and early September, she had
written notes in her diary about some health issues and fatigue.
Then on September ten, she writes.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Six weeks pregnant, due about the twenty sixth of April
nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's not planned, but to a young woman from a
small country town in love with the idea of love,
marriage and babies, it's an adventure she's keen to begin.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
She didn't really have that goal of what it's got
to get going, but she was always looking for something,
always really busy of wanting to create an environment that
was something to do. So it was never really about
getting out of the town. It was about having a
purpose or something. Something's always driving.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Did it leave her unsatisfied.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Because she was very emotional.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Her boyfriend at the time was Malcolm kurstenfelt they'd only
been seeing each other a matter of months. Oh hi, Malcolm,
(02:15):
it's Paula Donovan for the very first time. Malcolm has
spoken publicly about his memories over the decades. According to
his daughter, he's hardly said a word to even close
family members. Now he's a granddad in his sixties who
recently moved from Dolby to Central Queensland for work. He's
(02:37):
of a generation that kept a stiff upper lip a
brave front while trying to get on with things as
best he could. But it becomes clear to me that
grief and regret have cast a shadow on his life.
Thanks for agreeing to talk to me, Malcolm. So how
(02:57):
and when did you meet Margaret Willett?
Speaker 7 (03:02):
Well? I knew a brother and he was fairly young man,
and the newer sister as well. I hope we met
at a hotel or something and I was going down
to watch a football match or something the next day.
She asked could she come with me or something? That
was in Candawa in myjniformative to a football mast. That's
littally how we met.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So what were your first impressions?
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Really?
Speaker 7 (03:24):
You know, we were at that stage, there wasn't much
more and we were only going to be friends. Really,
I think that was about abounding at that stage. You know,
there was nothing, no romance or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
So did you know of her, of how she was
regarded in the town, or whether she had any sort
of reputation before you met her?
Speaker 8 (03:46):
She was.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
I think she had a fair few male friends and
a few few boyfriends that I think before I came along,
but I was a reputation goes. Small towns have a
lot of people that that talk and have their noses
everybody else's business, whether it concerns them or not. You know,
(04:09):
So I tend not to listen to gossip because I think,
you know, it's it's it's a low form of life
if you're going to talk about somebody.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Did you find that that was the case with Margaret? Oh?
Speaker 7 (04:23):
Well, as I said, you know, people talk about everybody,
you know the bossn't you know, not necessarily just one person.
You know people you know, it wouldn't matter who it was.
You know that they most of them knew what you
were doing before you do it it yourself. You know.
You gossips like that in small towns.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
When Malcolm first met Margaret. He was working in a
sawmill just outside of jim Dowis. He'd come back to
town on a Friday night to spend the weekend. So
did you look forward to Friday and Saturday nights?
Speaker 7 (04:58):
We didn't. We didn't see much, just some Friday nights
she was working, and I was most Friday and Satday
nights with film mates. So that's fade.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So do you remember when you and Margaret started going
out together?
Speaker 7 (05:10):
Oh? No, mainly dances, because around that time that was
all there really was to do. If you didn't go
down to jel on Friday or Satday night, you didn't
see anybody. Yeah, that's in small small towns such as Gendari,
there was literally nothing else to do that you didn't
go down down to the public authority saiday knight, you
didn't do anything, you know?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So is that is that?
Speaker 9 (05:32):
Where?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Where when romance bossomed with Margaret?
Speaker 7 (05:38):
Literally we went to dancers and got to know each
other a bit, But you know, as far as as
a world win romance, it probably wasn't like that.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
According to Margaret's diary, her relationship with Malcolm started around
April nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 7 (05:55):
That would be pretty right, John. I think I was
a round twenty year old something like that.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Pretty soon he was offered a job at Mackay, a
bigger coastal town about eight hundred kilometers north of jan Dowie.
Speaker 7 (06:08):
Sitting in small towns like that works hard to get,
you know, You've got to take every opportunity you can get.
And if I was offered at a job up at
mccolly and I thought, you know, it'll be a chance
to get out, go and see some country, get away whatever.
And at that stage there was no til she of
her even coming with me, really a full start.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
And then Margaret announced she was pregnant.
Speaker 7 (06:34):
Oh well, it's like everything. It is probably a shop
full start, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
How old were you then?
Speaker 7 (06:42):
Twenty? I think I I might have been like twenty.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I think maybe nineteen of me, and Margaret was around
eighteen years old.
Speaker 7 (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, I'll teach her.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
On September twenty fifth, Margaret wrote in her diary in
capital letters, Malcolm broke it all off, but their breakup
didn't last long.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
Oh I don't know whether it was parted or whether
it was just sort of for gossip reasons, you know,
people talking and whatever.
Speaker 8 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So did you make the decision to bring Margaret to
McKay or was it was the pregnancy something.
Speaker 7 (07:20):
Then got out a fair bearing on my decision as well.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
So you both moved to Mackay. How did you Margaret
settle in?
Speaker 7 (07:28):
Yeah, we've stayed that my French place. I like got
my job. We say their future three days, so we
found a place to lose and then we sort of
moved in there and we lived there for a while.
My first job up there was the tax building supplies
and then they closed down to do renovations that we
all got put off. I think I went into a
(07:49):
kimber yard and worked there as a borderman for a while,
and then I got a job on morale.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
On the eighteenth of February nineteen seventy six, in her
new hometown, Mackay, Margaret's granted her driver's license. Then on
May the sixth, her son, Colin is born. And how
was Margaret coping with life away from her family?
Speaker 7 (08:22):
And as she missed him after she had the baby,
she flew on to sue them and share them the baby,
So like a mom and dad came up lunch.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
So she was very close to her family.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
Yeah, I'd say that we're a fairly close.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Here, dear Grandma and grandpap.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
In a letter to her grandparents just a few weeks later,
it's evident Margaret's a doting mum.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Well, I'm sorry I haven't written to you sooner.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
In a top right corner, her address is written Norris Street, Mackay,
a rental property that still exists.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
In this letter, I'd like to let you know about
Colin's birth and how he has progressed. I first would
like to ask you how you feel about your first
great grandchild and the fact that it is a boy.
Mum and Dad feel happy and proud, and when Mum
was leaving here she would have loved to have taken
Colin home with her. Malcolm's parents and brothers and sisters
(09:17):
are also very happy for us. Also, his parents have
a granddaughter, but this is their first grandson, so that
has made them very happy. They hope I can make
a trip home very soon so they can see and
love Colin. I've just written home to both our parents
to ask them for their blessing as Malcolm and I
are getting married before the end of June. I hope
(09:41):
both of you will be happy for us, even though
you haven't met Malcolm yet.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
She goes on to describe in detail when her contractions
began and how quickly her son was born, to the
surprise of doctors. He weighed six pounds and seven ounces
of birth, and a besotted Margaret writes in her letter
how much he'd grows over the weeks.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Colin is still doing very well, and most times at
night he sleeps for four hours between feeds and three
hours of a day. Most mornings, between his six am
and nine am feeds, he stays awake, but he doesn't cry,
as he likes you to talk to him. I take
Colin to the baby clinic once a week and they
check on him. Here's a list of his progress. The
(10:27):
thirteenth of May nineteen seventy six, one week, weight six
pounds seven ounces.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
She speaks about wanting to come home and show Colin
off to her family and friends.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I hope this happens, as it will bring happiness to
a lot of people, and I'll just have to see
how the money goes. Both Malcolm and I are well
and happy, and we hope this letter finds you both well.
Bye for now, all our love Margaret Malcolm and Colin ps.
Malcolm's last name is Kirstenfeldt.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Malcolm remembers how Margaret loved being a mum.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
Yeah, she was a broad mother and she was a
good mother.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Margaret's mother, Bunty, says her daughter was delighted with her
baby boy. His mother loved something that she wanted.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
She was good with the kids. Yes, she couldn't get
down here quick enough to show us the little fellow.
He was a pretty little thing that I have to
admit that. I think I've got photos of Colin and
he's about four or five. I think it was ended
him in a kid's competition sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
There's a photo of a very trim Margaret with a
cropped hairstyle, in a white midriff, halter neck top and miniskirt,
holding baby Colin in the arms of her younger sister.
She's poking her tongue playfully at whoever's taking the photo.
Colin is only tiny, maybe two months old. Another snap,
(11:54):
when Colin is perhaps five or six months old, shows
Margaret dressed in the nineteen seventies fashion of bell bottoms,
hold the top, sunglasses and hat, and she stands in
front of a car in the bush holding her baby
up for the camera. Here's Margaret's sister deb.
Speaker 8 (12:13):
Proud mom, mad mom, definitely prodmom. Little fella stuck on
a lamp, gorgeous little boy. And she she did look happy.
She looked content with the child, you know, because I
remember thinking at the time, I was surprise was just
how calm.
Speaker 9 (12:29):
She was with him as well, because I'm not used
to seeing her this cart who was always a bit
of a push my buttons and us shows.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Was motherhood an actual fit for her?
Speaker 6 (12:42):
I think so. I think so.
Speaker 9 (12:44):
I've got to think about it a little bit because
whenever she was with a child or kid around, she
would always want spend time with them, and genuine time
if there was a baby to being pretended. She would
look Margaret and I did a lot of raising the
rest of the family. When you've got siblings, yeah, eleven
(13:07):
years younger and filming you it's a little loud not
to She didn't seem to regret the regret or resent
any of that. We'd have to fight if it was
going to change the nappy.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Aariament.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So this marriage would be recognized as legal not only
in Australia.
Speaker 7 (13:25):
But throughout the world.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
On the twenty second of June, at the courthouse in Mackay,
Malcolm Joseph Kirstenfeld and Margaret Anne Willet marry. It's a
simple ceremony with just a couple of witnesses, a man
and a woman. There's just a snapshot of the couple
and their witnesses on the wedding day. It's in the
bright sunshine and almost everyone's squinting. Margaret has a broad
(13:49):
grin on her face. She's in a simple knee length
white cotton dress with short sleeves. Her wavy brown hair
just touches her shoulders. Malcolm stands on her right, their
arms seemingly intertwined. He's in a white long sleeved business
shirt and Maron trousers with a matching belt. His hair's
(14:10):
as long as Margaret's. But he's not smiling, just staring
directly into the camera.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
I've seen when you came down. Here is just gone
to the pack.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Here's Margaret's mum, bunty. So when when Margaret gets married,
life is good between her and Malcolm with a.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
Wall, but I think it was a bit of a struggle.
She used to ring once a fortnight or something like that.
I think she had trouble and getting money out of
it to get stuff she used to wear on the
railway up. So I think they heard their ups and
(14:51):
downs pretty well.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Debbie thinks her sister Margaret had a rosy perception of
wetted Bliss that didn't quite ring true in reality.
Speaker 9 (15:01):
There was always the niggling the relationship with Malcolm. I'm
not always there partner sorts of things in our lives.
That was pretty common and fairly much the norm. Then
went to bot frankly.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
With him, but she didn't want that.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Under sound of it, No.
Speaker 9 (15:18):
It sounds like she was expecting it to be something different,
but it just wasn't.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Malcolm says he and Margaret had plans to return to
jen Dowie with their small family after traveling and working
around a bit and getting some money together, but instead
Margaret fell pregnant again, adding extra strain on a young couple.
Baby Leslie was born just fourteen months after Colin in
July nineteen seventy seven. How did she go with the
(15:44):
second birth, that being Leslie?
Speaker 7 (15:46):
Yeah? I think she always talked about adding more children.
She wanted, I want to god more kids. I think
it came was a bit of a shock that she
was pregnant got gone as well, because.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Why was it a shock Malcolm, Well, you know.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
We never sort of had plan at that stage, did
I know of that, you know, to have another child
at that stage, because we were sort of sort of
in the middle of a transit of moving, trying to
get another place, trying to get a place of our own,
because we were only sharing, rending a place at that stage,
or running part of the place.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
They would have been quite tough for young couple.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
Yeah, we were trying to get out of there because
it was a real good place to be in and
we were I was sort of just trying to just
started on the Queensland Rail on the car line, which
was a good job and paid well and it was
only home on weekends and stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
While that so, life in Malcolm's job led them to Serena,
just thirty six kilometers from Mackay, but a whole new
world for Margaret, a wife and mother of two very
young children. She was alone for most days and nights
and missed her big Jen Dowi family terribly.
Speaker 7 (17:03):
I was with the Worlding Gang Fusion Worlding Gang on
the on the line. We welded all the lines together.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Would be very tough work, tough labor.
Speaker 7 (17:12):
Yeah, you know it was a long job, long day,
hot day.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
But you sound like you were both determined to start
a life in North Queensland.
Speaker 7 (17:19):
As I said, we often talked about coming back because
you know, I think she missed the family fairly well.
You know, she wanted to be with them and with
a young fanly well, only had oneket at that stage.
But then when after she had the second one, the
sort of things were I think started to get on
(17:41):
top of her a little bit because you two kids,
when one fourteen months old, I'm unders born, was really difficult,
and I had been moved out of town and I
was going back on weekends at that stage, so it
was probably probably getting to her a little bit, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
So again Margaret was young mom with two small children,
moving to another new town, husband away five days a week,
coping on our own.
Speaker 7 (18:08):
I'd get all hours Friday night and have Saturday there
and I used to have to go back about two
o'clock Sunday afternoon, so I virtually only had one day
at home and not to get vidicted, all my clothes
washed and trained and get food and everything to go
back up there for with the week, and you know,
and all that sort of things. So we didn't get
(18:30):
a lot of time to be sort of together at
that stage, but the money was good and we sort
of thought about that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Do you feel that's where your marriage had started to faulty.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
I don't know about fault of It was just the
distance between us at that stage wasn't good. You know.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Margaret's time at Serena was a forty five dollars a
week rented little shack, not more than a couple of bedrooms,
a bathroom, kitchen, and living area. She made friends with
the woman next door, Heather Jeane Hanson, a divorced single
mum of three. In a statement to police after Margaret's death,
(19:16):
Heather said.
Speaker 10 (19:17):
I knew Margaret kirston Felt in her husband, Malcolm. I
knew them since they came to live next door to
our house.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
In the beginning.
Speaker 10 (19:24):
It appeared to me that the kirston Felt marriage was
reasonably good. Margaret and I didn't talk much at that stage.
In early December nineteen seventy seven, Margaret approached me and
asked me if i'd look after her children while she
went out. I agreed to do this, and I did
look after the children on a number of occasions for her.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
She told me.
Speaker 10 (19:45):
Originally that she wanted to go to town and get
some blood tests, but I found out later she'd gone swimming.
Sometimes later she would tell me she was going out,
and then sometimes she'd tell me who with. I found
out then that she was going out with other men.
She discussed the other men with me. She told me
also that their marriage was breaking. At the time, she
(20:07):
was working at a small cafe in Serena. I think
she started to go out with other men after she
started to work at the cafe known as the Pie Cart.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Debbie wasn't really in touch with Margaret much during this time.
She was busy becoming a nurse and leading her own life.
But from family conversations she remembers what was going on
with her older sister.
Speaker 9 (20:32):
Sounds like she's gotten to appointments and she's gone with
somebody else again, and I can understand them to love her.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
So that's what she craved, was that that need that
she wanted, was the need to be loved.
Speaker 9 (20:46):
For me, I think that's exactly what it was. I
feel that somebody needs she needs somebody to nurture her
and love her, and unfortunately some of the choices weren't
that great.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
But that's too hard to so her seeking out someone
else to fill that void. Was that what caused the
problems within the marriage to begin with? Or did it
just add to the problems I already added to the problems.
Speaker 9 (21:08):
I don't think it would have been the initial reasoning.
I think it would have come later, over time, when
she had been feeling right left. Yeah, abandoned, because he
spent a lot of time away.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Malcolm, you his wife could be easily charmed and enjoyed
the attention of men. How would you describe Margaret?
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Probably outgoing. She was an outgoing person. She was fairly
easily influenced.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
How do you mean easily influenced?
Speaker 7 (21:35):
Well, man wise, she was fairly easily influenced. I think
you know she was a sucker for sort of having
an affair on the side or whatever. You know, I'm
pretty sure it was going on while I was out
of pound working, But yeah, I couldn't prove anything.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
So do you mean if a man paid her attention
or flattered her, she could easily fall for that.
Speaker 7 (21:58):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
In her police statement, neighbor, Heather Hanson recalls Margaret seeing
a local man. We cannot name this person for legal reasons,
so from here on his name will be bleeped.
Speaker 10 (22:16):
She did not discuss too many things with me until
she started to go out regularly with her husband was
still living with Margaret. When he came home from work
at weekends, she informed me that her marriage was breaking up,
that was lonely and needed someone. She said that she
was sleeping in the same bed, but she was not
(22:36):
having intercourse with him. About Christmas time nineteen seventy seven,
she told me she thought she was pregnant. She told
me later that while she was still going out with
Margaret continued to have other men call at her house.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
The situation came to a head about three weeks before
Margaret died. She was thrilled when some of her family
visited Serena to celebrate her twenty first birthday in late January,
although on the night of her party things went sour.
Margaret's brother, Brian was only about fourteen at a time,
(23:16):
but he was close to his big sister and remembers
the evening well.
Speaker 11 (23:23):
I remember Malcolm, for whatever reason, at the stage of
having troubles or whatever. A bit of an argument that
night was there and Malcolm she wanted in the street
and mind her full again in the street. It was
all upset and stuff and was.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Talking about she reckoned. She might have been pregnant.
Speaker 11 (23:41):
She didn't know whether Malcolm were hitting in the main
street of Arena, in the traffic arms ere the hours.
I think she's just unsure what were going to happen
to obtain with album and yeah, whether having a bit
of time hard to see themselves.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Out or when you and Margaret returned after how many hours?
You don't know?
Speaker 9 (24:05):
How is she?
Speaker 11 (24:07):
I think she's pretty well settled down.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Was Margaret's twenty first The last time you saw your sister?
You didn't think she was suicidal or anything?
Speaker 8 (24:17):
That night.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
About a week after Margaret's twenty first, on the Australia
Day weekend, the Willets all left for Gen Dowie. Marcolm
left for Gen Dowie as well, taking his young son
Colin and leaving seven month old Leslie and Margaret behind.
So the last time you saw your daughter alive was
(24:42):
just after her twenty first birthday? Did you leave a
happy daughter behind when you left?
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I think she was going home, really did look down?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Do you think that was because she felt that her
support was going.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
I think so, you know a company and.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Would you say she was lonely with you there? So
for the party girl from Jen Dowie. Had she not
made similar social connections in Serena? Was it you didn't
see many people coming around or man?
Speaker 6 (25:13):
Well, well, I know it was just made of bok
who had called it one day or he called it
the diner And I don't know what.
Speaker 7 (25:20):
Your name was.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Any thought that this is how neighbor Heather Hansen remembers it.
Speaker 10 (25:25):
Malcolm kirsten Felt left Margaret about three weeks before she died.
He found some love bites on her neck and there
was a row about it, and later he left and
took the eldest child with him. Before he left, both
his and Margaret's parents came to Serena, apparently to sort
out the marriage. She said they wouldn't listen to her,
they wouldn't keep calm, and it was flaring up all
(25:46):
the time.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But Malcolm has a different recollection of events. Do you
remember having a fight an argument with her on the
night of her twenty first.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Not that I recall, but yeah, I said, it's a
long time ago. You know, it might have been some
words taken, or a bit of an argument or something
that's really cool, having a gone fight anyway. Yeah, as
I said, it's a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Sure, I understand it. So we've been told that there
was an argument between yourself and Margaret on that night.
She had confided in her younger brother Brian, that she
was she was concerned she was pregnant and that the
child wasn't yours, and other residents in the street, including
(26:33):
a neighbor and friend, also spoke about how Margaret was
concerned that she had been seeing some everyone the relationship
had broken down, and in fact, the catalyst for you
leaving to go back to Gindari with Colin was you
finding love bites on her neck. Do you remember that? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (26:54):
Really, I have a sort of I heard too much
about being pregnant suntil after she was dead, because when
I I came literally came home because Dad was crooked.
Dad he had diabetes really bad, I need them, And
I came back because he was he wasn't expected to live,
(27:17):
and I came home to sort of be there and
had I was going to spend a week at home,
and then I was going back up there the next weekend. Yeah,
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
To try and work on things with with Margaret.
Speaker 7 (27:32):
Y, trying to try to work things out there.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
And did you take Colin for any particular reason.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
No, I just thought of with her, with the two
small kids and her, you know, it might have been
just too much, and and I just thought if I
took one with me, you know, down with me, it
had just sort of beazed the burden a little bit,
you know. But then i've heard since that she's told
she had told people that I was taking even I
(28:00):
wasn't taken bringing it back, and that was never going
to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Were you in regular contact with her?
Speaker 7 (28:07):
No, there was no phone in the house and there
was no mobile phones or anything at that stage.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
So do you remember what the last thing was that
you said to Margaret?
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Great, I think when I was talking to her that once,
so that I said that I would be back up
on that following weekend, that I had made plans to
go back up that weekend and sort of climb work
things out and so that all we could all come
home together, come back to good day.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Neighbor Heather told police what happened in the weeks Malcolm
was gone.
Speaker 10 (28:43):
After Malcolm left, she continued to go with but she
told me three days before she died that and her
were finished. He had got a mate to tell her
that he was finished with her. She was apparently upset
because she got drunk at home.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Margaret had also been worried about a prowler in the area.
This is her brother Brian.
Speaker 8 (29:08):
Yeah, she was.
Speaker 11 (29:09):
Something that we get rind pickle toll or or something
like that.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
And under the sort of.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
Tense just staring in.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Did she ever talk about anyone that did scare her
or someone that was perhaps willing to go out with
her who she rejected?
Speaker 11 (29:26):
I got someone who the only person's always who's always
stuck on me more and is something we new with
And it was two or three doors.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Again.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
She'd also told her neighbor about what she'd seen. Here's
the statement of Heather Hansen.
Speaker 10 (29:44):
Again, she brought up the subject of a prowler that
had been in the area. She had told me previously
that she kept a knife under her mattress for safety's sake.
She showed me a knife in the kitchen drill one
day the Monday night before she died as well as
the one that she kept under her mattress. The one
(30:07):
she showed me in the kitchen was about half an
inch wide and a long blade. She said that she
would use the one under the mattress or the one
in the drawer if she was attacked. The one under
the mattress had a wooden handle, a rusty blade pointed
at the end, with a piece missing from the upper
edge of the knife.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
But it seems Margaret never told her husband Malcolm about
a prowler. Were you aware that there were some complaints
about a prowler in the area. Margaret being one of them,
had complained that of a prowl and I think shortly
around the time of the twenty first she thought she
saw a man actually looking into the window of your house.
Speaker 7 (30:49):
No, I wasn't aware about night.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Were you aware that Margaret had been sleeping with a
knife under her pillow?
Speaker 7 (30:56):
No.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
On the night before will Margaret died, that would be
the Thursday night, Margaret had a small party at her home.
Here's what her friend Heather recalls.
Speaker 10 (31:09):
There were quite a few people there, about eight people,
including Dale and a man who was with the man
two houses up from Margaret's everyone went home except Dale
and the other man. The other man was drunk when
he left. Dale left after the man walked up the road.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So who's Dale the last person to leave the party?
Remember the young motorcyclist who discovered Margaret's body. That's Dale
and the man with the neighbor from two doors up,
someone called person X. You'll learn more about him in
episodes to come. On Margaret's last day alive Friday, February tenth,
(31:53):
nineteen seventy eight, she went to the Serena Hospital with Heather.
Both had to see a doctor. Afterwards, Margaret told Heather
the doctor estimated she was six weeks pregnant.
Speaker 10 (32:06):
After we left the hospital, she went to the chemist
and had a prescription filled for nerve tablets. She told
me previously that she had a nervous breakdown some years before.
I noticed that she was always trembling and shaking. I
saw her again about two forty five pm. She left
with Dale. I saw her again at seven pm. She
(32:28):
sat on the front steps and spoke for ten minutes
or so. She said that she was going to have
an early night and if anybody came there would be trouble.
She appeared quite dopey, and I took it that she
was taking the nerve tablets that the doctor had given her.
She didn't appear to be under the influence of liquor
at that stage. She was dressed in black shorts and
(32:48):
a green, purple and black blouse. I didn't see Margaret
Kurston felt after that. I did learn she'd been found
lying on our front lawn later that night. Night I
returned home that night at about eleven forty five pm,
police were at her house.
Speaker 12 (33:08):
Then you try to think, for I don't think.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Next time what happened to Margaret.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
And it was then when I.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Look down the sword.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
The try to thinker the disturbing recollections of those who
were first on the scene, and there was a lot
of nice in the in the kitchen to seek for
that as well and the surprising discovery.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
We have a very young baby and hand within the house.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
If you have information about the Margaret Kirstenfeld case, please
let us know. Email us at Pendulum podcast at gmail
dot com, or go to seven US dot com dot AU.
Forward Slash Pendulum presenter and executive producer Paula Donovan, writer
(34:40):
and producer Sally Eels, sound design, Mark Wright Graphics, Jason
Blandford transcripts Susan Bush. Our theme music is the Clock
Is Ticking by Dark Orb Music. See our show notes
(35:02):
for all music credits. With thanks to seven Years Brisbane
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mum dies violently in
a small Queensland town. Suicide or murder? What happened to
Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
This is Pendulum Episode two.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I'm Paula Donoman. In late nineteen seventy five, at just
seventeen years of age, Margaret finds out she's going to
be a mum. In August and early September, she had
written notes in her diary about some health issues and fatigue.
Then on September ten, she writes.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Six weeks pregnant, due about the twenty sixth of April
nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's not planned, but to a young woman from a
small country town in love with the idea of love,
marriage and babies, it's an adventure she's keen to begin.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
She didn't really have that goal of what it's got
to get going, but she was always looking for something,
always really busy of wanting to create an environment that
was something to do. So it was never really about
getting out of the town. It was about having a
purpose or something. Something's always driving.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Did it leave her unsatisfied.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Because she was very emotional.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Her boyfriend at the time was Malcolm kurstenfelt they'd only
been seeing each other a matter of months. Oh hi, Malcolm,
(02:15):
it's Paula Donovan for the very first time. Malcolm has
spoken publicly about his memories over the decades. According to
his daughter, he's hardly said a word to even close
family members. Now he's a granddad in his sixties who
recently moved from Dolby to Central Queensland for work. He's
(02:37):
of a generation that kept a stiff upper lip a
brave front while trying to get on with things as
best he could. But it becomes clear to me that
grief and regret have cast a shadow on his life.
Thanks for agreeing to talk to me, Malcolm. So how
(02:57):
and when did you meet Margaret Willett?
Speaker 7 (03:02):
Well? I knew a brother and he was fairly young man,
and the newer sister as well. I hope we met
at a hotel or something and I was going down
to watch a football match or something the next day.
She asked could she come with me or something? That
was in Candawa in myjniformative to a football mast. That's
littally how we met.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
So what were your first impressions?
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Really?
Speaker 7 (03:24):
You know, we were at that stage, there wasn't much
more and we were only going to be friends. Really,
I think that was about abounding at that stage. You know,
there was nothing, no romance or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
So did you know of her, of how she was
regarded in the town, or whether she had any sort
of reputation before you met her?
Speaker 8 (03:46):
She was.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
I think she had a fair few male friends and
a few few boyfriends that I think before I came along,
but I was a reputation goes. Small towns have a
lot of people that that talk and have their noses
everybody else's business, whether it concerns them or not. You know,
(04:09):
So I tend not to listen to gossip because I think,
you know, it's it's it's a low form of life
if you're going to talk about somebody.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Did you find that that was the case with Margaret? Oh?
Speaker 7 (04:23):
Well, as I said, you know, people talk about everybody,
you know the bossn't you know, not necessarily just one person.
You know people you know, it wouldn't matter who it was.
You know that they most of them knew what you
were doing before you do it it yourself. You know.
You gossips like that in small towns.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
When Malcolm first met Margaret. He was working in a
sawmill just outside of jim Dowis. He'd come back to
town on a Friday night to spend the weekend. So
did you look forward to Friday and Saturday nights?
Speaker 7 (04:58):
We didn't. We didn't see much, just some Friday nights
she was working, and I was most Friday and Satday
nights with film mates. So that's fade.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So do you remember when you and Margaret started going
out together?
Speaker 7 (05:10):
Oh? No, mainly dances, because around that time that was
all there really was to do. If you didn't go
down to jel on Friday or Satday night, you didn't
see anybody. Yeah, that's in small small towns such as Gendari,
there was literally nothing else to do that you didn't
go down down to the public authority saiday knight, you
didn't do anything, you know?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So is that is that?
Speaker 9 (05:32):
Where?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Where when romance bossomed with Margaret?
Speaker 7 (05:38):
Literally we went to dancers and got to know each
other a bit, But you know, as far as as
a world win romance, it probably wasn't like that.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
According to Margaret's diary, her relationship with Malcolm started around
April nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 7 (05:55):
That would be pretty right, John. I think I was
a round twenty year old something like that.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Pretty soon he was offered a job at Mackay, a
bigger coastal town about eight hundred kilometers north of jan Dowie.
Speaker 7 (06:08):
Sitting in small towns like that works hard to get,
you know, You've got to take every opportunity you can get.
And if I was offered at a job up at
mccolly and I thought, you know, it'll be a chance
to get out, go and see some country, get away whatever.
And at that stage there was no til she of
her even coming with me, really a full start.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
And then Margaret announced she was pregnant.
Speaker 7 (06:34):
Oh well, it's like everything. It is probably a shop
full start, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
How old were you then?
Speaker 7 (06:42):
Twenty? I think I I might have been like twenty.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I think maybe nineteen of me, and Margaret was around
eighteen years old.
Speaker 7 (06:49):
Yeah, yeah, I'll teach her.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
On September twenty fifth, Margaret wrote in her diary in
capital letters, Malcolm broke it all off, but their breakup
didn't last long.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
Oh I don't know whether it was parted or whether
it was just sort of for gossip reasons, you know,
people talking and whatever.
Speaker 8 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So did you make the decision to bring Margaret to
McKay or was it was the pregnancy something.
Speaker 7 (07:20):
Then got out a fair bearing on my decision as well.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
So you both moved to Mackay. How did you Margaret
settle in?
Speaker 7 (07:28):
Yeah, we've stayed that my French place. I like got
my job. We say their future three days, so we
found a place to lose and then we sort of
moved in there and we lived there for a while.
My first job up there was the tax building supplies
and then they closed down to do renovations that we
all got put off. I think I went into a
(07:49):
kimber yard and worked there as a borderman for a while,
and then I got a job on morale.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
On the eighteenth of February nineteen seventy six, in her
new hometown, Mackay, Margaret's granted her driver's license. Then on
May the sixth, her son, Colin is born. And how
was Margaret coping with life away from her family?
Speaker 7 (08:22):
And as she missed him after she had the baby,
she flew on to sue them and share them the baby,
So like a mom and dad came up lunch.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
So she was very close to her family.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
Yeah, I'd say that we're a fairly close.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Here, dear Grandma and grandpap.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
In a letter to her grandparents just a few weeks later,
it's evident Margaret's a doting mum.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Well, I'm sorry I haven't written to you sooner.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
In a top right corner, her address is written Norris Street, Mackay,
a rental property that still exists.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
In this letter, I'd like to let you know about
Colin's birth and how he has progressed. I first would
like to ask you how you feel about your first
great grandchild and the fact that it is a boy.
Mum and Dad feel happy and proud, and when Mum
was leaving here she would have loved to have taken
Colin home with her. Malcolm's parents and brothers and sisters
(09:17):
are also very happy for us. Also, his parents have
a granddaughter, but this is their first grandson, so that
has made them very happy. They hope I can make
a trip home very soon so they can see and
love Colin. I've just written home to both our parents
to ask them for their blessing as Malcolm and I
are getting married before the end of June. I hope
(09:41):
both of you will be happy for us, even though
you haven't met Malcolm yet.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
She goes on to describe in detail when her contractions
began and how quickly her son was born, to the
surprise of doctors. He weighed six pounds and seven ounces
of birth, and a besotted Margaret writes in her letter
how much he'd grows over the weeks.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Colin is still doing very well, and most times at
night he sleeps for four hours between feeds and three
hours of a day. Most mornings, between his six am
and nine am feeds, he stays awake, but he doesn't cry,
as he likes you to talk to him. I take
Colin to the baby clinic once a week and they
check on him. Here's a list of his progress. The
(10:27):
thirteenth of May nineteen seventy six, one week, weight six
pounds seven ounces.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
She speaks about wanting to come home and show Colin
off to her family and friends.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I hope this happens, as it will bring happiness to
a lot of people, and I'll just have to see
how the money goes. Both Malcolm and I are well
and happy, and we hope this letter finds you both well.
Bye for now, all our love Margaret Malcolm and Colin ps.
Malcolm's last name is Kirstenfeldt.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Malcolm remembers how Margaret loved being a mum.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
Yeah, she was a broad mother and she was a
good mother.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Margaret's mother, Bunty, says her daughter was delighted with her
baby boy. His mother loved something that she wanted.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
She was good with the kids. Yes, she couldn't get
down here quick enough to show us the little fellow.
He was a pretty little thing that I have to
admit that. I think I've got photos of Colin and
he's about four or five. I think it was ended
him in a kid's competition sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
There's a photo of a very trim Margaret with a
cropped hairstyle, in a white midriff, halter neck top and miniskirt,
holding baby Colin in the arms of her younger sister.
She's poking her tongue playfully at whoever's taking the photo.
Colin is only tiny, maybe two months old. Another snap,
(11:54):
when Colin is perhaps five or six months old, shows
Margaret dressed in the nineteen seventies fashion of bell bottoms,
hold the top, sunglasses and hat, and she stands in
front of a car in the bush holding her baby
up for the camera. Here's Margaret's sister deb.
Speaker 8 (12:13):
Proud mom, mad mom, definitely prodmom. Little fella stuck on
a lamp, gorgeous little boy. And she she did look happy.
She looked content with the child, you know, because I
remember thinking at the time, I was surprise was just
how calm.
Speaker 9 (12:29):
She was with him as well, because I'm not used
to seeing her this cart who was always a bit
of a push my buttons and us shows.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Was motherhood an actual fit for her?
Speaker 6 (12:42):
I think so. I think so.
Speaker 9 (12:44):
I've got to think about it a little bit because
whenever she was with a child or kid around, she
would always want spend time with them, and genuine time
if there was a baby to being pretended. She would
look Margaret and I did a lot of raising the
rest of the family. When you've got siblings, yeah, eleven
(13:07):
years younger and filming you it's a little loud not
to She didn't seem to regret the regret or resent
any of that. We'd have to fight if it was
going to change the nappy.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Aariament.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
So this marriage would be recognized as legal not only
in Australia.
Speaker 7 (13:25):
But throughout the world.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
On the twenty second of June, at the courthouse in Mackay,
Malcolm Joseph Kirstenfeld and Margaret Anne Willet marry. It's a
simple ceremony with just a couple of witnesses, a man
and a woman. There's just a snapshot of the couple
and their witnesses on the wedding day. It's in the
bright sunshine and almost everyone's squinting. Margaret has a broad
(13:49):
grin on her face. She's in a simple knee length
white cotton dress with short sleeves. Her wavy brown hair
just touches her shoulders. Malcolm stands on her right, their
arms seemingly intertwined. He's in a white long sleeved business
shirt and Maron trousers with a matching belt. His hair's
(14:10):
as long as Margaret's. But he's not smiling, just staring
directly into the camera.
Speaker 6 (14:16):
I've seen when you came down. Here is just gone
to the pack.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Here's Margaret's mum, bunty. So when when Margaret gets married,
life is good between her and Malcolm with a.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
Wall, but I think it was a bit of a struggle.
She used to ring once a fortnight or something like that.
I think she had trouble and getting money out of
it to get stuff she used to wear on the
railway up. So I think they heard their ups and
(14:51):
downs pretty well.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Debbie thinks her sister Margaret had a rosy perception of
wetted Bliss that didn't quite ring true in reality.
Speaker 9 (15:01):
There was always the niggling the relationship with Malcolm. I'm
not always there partner sorts of things in our lives.
That was pretty common and fairly much the norm. Then
went to bot frankly.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
With him, but she didn't want that.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Under sound of it, No.
Speaker 9 (15:18):
It sounds like she was expecting it to be something different,
but it just wasn't.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Malcolm says he and Margaret had plans to return to
jen Dowie with their small family after traveling and working
around a bit and getting some money together, but instead
Margaret fell pregnant again, adding extra strain on a young couple.
Baby Leslie was born just fourteen months after Colin in
July nineteen seventy seven. How did she go with the
(15:44):
second birth, that being Leslie?
Speaker 7 (15:46):
Yeah? I think she always talked about adding more children.
She wanted, I want to god more kids. I think
it came was a bit of a shock that she
was pregnant got gone as well, because.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Why was it a shock Malcolm, Well, you know.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
We never sort of had plan at that stage, did
I know of that, you know, to have another child
at that stage, because we were sort of sort of
in the middle of a transit of moving, trying to
get another place, trying to get a place of our own,
because we were only sharing, rending a place at that stage,
or running part of the place.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
They would have been quite tough for young couple.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
Yeah, we were trying to get out of there because
it was a real good place to be in and
we were I was sort of just trying to just
started on the Queensland Rail on the car line, which
was a good job and paid well and it was
only home on weekends and stuff.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
While that so, life in Malcolm's job led them to Serena,
just thirty six kilometers from Mackay, but a whole new
world for Margaret, a wife and mother of two very
young children. She was alone for most days and nights
and missed her big Jen Dowi family terribly.
Speaker 7 (17:03):
I was with the Worlding Gang Fusion Worlding Gang on
the on the line. We welded all the lines together.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Would be very tough work, tough labor.
Speaker 7 (17:12):
Yeah, you know it was a long job, long day,
hot day.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
But you sound like you were both determined to start
a life in North Queensland.
Speaker 7 (17:19):
As I said, we often talked about coming back because
you know, I think she missed the family fairly well.
You know, she wanted to be with them and with
a young fanly well, only had oneket at that stage.
But then when after she had the second one, the
sort of things were I think started to get on
(17:41):
top of her a little bit because you two kids,
when one fourteen months old, I'm unders born, was really difficult,
and I had been moved out of town and I
was going back on weekends at that stage, so it
was probably probably getting to her a little bit, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
So again Margaret was young mom with two small children,
moving to another new town, husband away five days a week,
coping on our own.
Speaker 7 (18:08):
I'd get all hours Friday night and have Saturday there
and I used to have to go back about two
o'clock Sunday afternoon, so I virtually only had one day
at home and not to get vidicted, all my clothes
washed and trained and get food and everything to go
back up there for with the week, and you know,
and all that sort of things. So we didn't get
(18:30):
a lot of time to be sort of together at
that stage, but the money was good and we sort
of thought about that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Do you feel that's where your marriage had started to faulty.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
I don't know about fault of It was just the
distance between us at that stage wasn't good. You know.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Margaret's time at Serena was a forty five dollars a
week rented little shack, not more than a couple of bedrooms,
a bathroom, kitchen, and living area. She made friends with
the woman next door, Heather Jeane Hanson, a divorced single
mum of three. In a statement to police after Margaret's death,
(19:16):
Heather said.
Speaker 10 (19:17):
I knew Margaret kirston Felt in her husband, Malcolm. I
knew them since they came to live next door to
our house.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
In the beginning.
Speaker 10 (19:24):
It appeared to me that the kirston Felt marriage was
reasonably good. Margaret and I didn't talk much at that stage.
In early December nineteen seventy seven, Margaret approached me and
asked me if i'd look after her children while she
went out. I agreed to do this, and I did
look after the children on a number of occasions for her.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
She told me.
Speaker 10 (19:45):
Originally that she wanted to go to town and get
some blood tests, but I found out later she'd gone swimming.
Sometimes later she would tell me she was going out,
and then sometimes she'd tell me who with. I found
out then that she was going out with other men.
She discussed the other men with me. She told me
also that their marriage was breaking. At the time, she
(20:07):
was working at a small cafe in Serena. I think
she started to go out with other men after she
started to work at the cafe known as the Pie Cart.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Debbie wasn't really in touch with Margaret much during this time.
She was busy becoming a nurse and leading her own life.
But from family conversations she remembers what was going on
with her older sister.
Speaker 9 (20:32):
Sounds like she's gotten to appointments and she's gone with
somebody else again, and I can understand them to love her.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
So that's what she craved, was that that need that
she wanted, was the need to be loved.
Speaker 9 (20:46):
For me, I think that's exactly what it was. I
feel that somebody needs she needs somebody to nurture her
and love her, and unfortunately some of the choices weren't
that great.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
But that's too hard to so her seeking out someone
else to fill that void. Was that what caused the
problems within the marriage to begin with? Or did it
just add to the problems I already added to the problems.
Speaker 9 (21:08):
I don't think it would have been the initial reasoning.
I think it would have come later, over time, when
she had been feeling right left. Yeah, abandoned, because he
spent a lot of time away.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Malcolm, you his wife could be easily charmed and enjoyed
the attention of men. How would you describe Margaret?
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Probably outgoing. She was an outgoing person. She was fairly
easily influenced.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
How do you mean easily influenced?
Speaker 7 (21:35):
Well, man wise, she was fairly easily influenced. I think
you know she was a sucker for sort of having
an affair on the side or whatever. You know, I'm
pretty sure it was going on while I was out
of pound working, But yeah, I couldn't prove anything.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
So do you mean if a man paid her attention
or flattered her, she could easily fall for that.
Speaker 7 (21:58):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
In her police statement, neighbor, Heather Hanson recalls Margaret seeing
a local man. We cannot name this person for legal reasons,
so from here on his name will be bleeped.
Speaker 10 (22:16):
She did not discuss too many things with me until
she started to go out regularly with her husband was
still living with Margaret. When he came home from work
at weekends, she informed me that her marriage was breaking up,
that was lonely and needed someone. She said that she
was sleeping in the same bed, but she was not
(22:36):
having intercourse with him. About Christmas time nineteen seventy seven,
she told me she thought she was pregnant. She told
me later that while she was still going out with
Margaret continued to have other men call at her house.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
The situation came to a head about three weeks before
Margaret died. She was thrilled when some of her family
visited Serena to celebrate her twenty first birthday in late January,
although on the night of her party things went sour.
Margaret's brother, Brian was only about fourteen at a time,
(23:16):
but he was close to his big sister and remembers
the evening well.
Speaker 11 (23:23):
I remember Malcolm, for whatever reason, at the stage of
having troubles or whatever. A bit of an argument that
night was there and Malcolm she wanted in the street
and mind her full again in the street. It was
all upset and stuff and was.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Talking about she reckoned. She might have been pregnant.
Speaker 11 (23:41):
She didn't know whether Malcolm were hitting in the main
street of Arena, in the traffic arms ere the hours.
I think she's just unsure what were going to happen
to obtain with album and yeah, whether having a bit
of time hard to see themselves.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Out or when you and Margaret returned after how many hours?
You don't know?
Speaker 9 (24:05):
How is she?
Speaker 11 (24:07):
I think she's pretty well settled down.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Was Margaret's twenty first The last time you saw your sister?
You didn't think she was suicidal or anything?
Speaker 8 (24:17):
That night.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
About a week after Margaret's twenty first, on the Australia
Day weekend, the Willets all left for Gen Dowie. Marcolm
left for Gen Dowie as well, taking his young son
Colin and leaving seven month old Leslie and Margaret behind.
So the last time you saw your daughter alive was
(24:42):
just after her twenty first birthday? Did you leave a
happy daughter behind when you left?
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I think she was going home, really did look down?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Do you think that was because she felt that her
support was going.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
I think so, you know a company and.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Would you say she was lonely with you there? So
for the party girl from Jen Dowie. Had she not
made similar social connections in Serena? Was it you didn't
see many people coming around or man?
Speaker 6 (25:13):
Well, well, I know it was just made of bok
who had called it one day or he called it
the diner And I don't know what.
Speaker 7 (25:20):
Your name was.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Any thought that this is how neighbor Heather Hansen remembers it.
Speaker 10 (25:25):
Malcolm kirsten Felt left Margaret about three weeks before she died.
He found some love bites on her neck and there
was a row about it, and later he left and
took the eldest child with him. Before he left, both
his and Margaret's parents came to Serena, apparently to sort
out the marriage. She said they wouldn't listen to her,
they wouldn't keep calm, and it was flaring up all
(25:46):
the time.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But Malcolm has a different recollection of events. Do you
remember having a fight an argument with her on the
night of her twenty first.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Not that I recall, but yeah, I said, it's a
long time ago. You know, it might have been some
words taken, or a bit of an argument or something
that's really cool, having a gone fight anyway. Yeah, as
I said, it's a long time ago.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Sure, I understand it. So we've been told that there
was an argument between yourself and Margaret on that night.
She had confided in her younger brother Brian, that she
was she was concerned she was pregnant and that the
child wasn't yours, and other residents in the street, including
(26:33):
a neighbor and friend, also spoke about how Margaret was
concerned that she had been seeing some everyone the relationship
had broken down, and in fact, the catalyst for you
leaving to go back to Gindari with Colin was you
finding love bites on her neck. Do you remember that? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (26:54):
Really, I have a sort of I heard too much
about being pregnant suntil after she was dead, because when
I I came literally came home because Dad was crooked.
Dad he had diabetes really bad, I need them, And
I came back because he was he wasn't expected to live,
(27:17):
and I came home to sort of be there and
had I was going to spend a week at home,
and then I was going back up there the next weekend. Yeah,
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
To try and work on things with with Margaret.
Speaker 7 (27:32):
Y, trying to try to work things out there.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
And did you take Colin for any particular reason.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
No, I just thought of with her, with the two
small kids and her, you know, it might have been
just too much, and and I just thought if I
took one with me, you know, down with me, it
had just sort of beazed the burden a little bit,
you know. But then i've heard since that she's told
she had told people that I was taking even I
(28:00):
wasn't taken bringing it back, and that was never going
to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Were you in regular contact with her?
Speaker 7 (28:07):
No, there was no phone in the house and there
was no mobile phones or anything at that stage.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
So do you remember what the last thing was that
you said to Margaret?
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Great, I think when I was talking to her that once,
so that I said that I would be back up
on that following weekend, that I had made plans to
go back up that weekend and sort of climb work
things out and so that all we could all come
home together, come back to good day.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Neighbor Heather told police what happened in the weeks Malcolm
was gone.
Speaker 10 (28:43):
After Malcolm left, she continued to go with but she
told me three days before she died that and her
were finished. He had got a mate to tell her
that he was finished with her. She was apparently upset
because she got drunk at home.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Margaret had also been worried about a prowler in the area.
This is her brother Brian.
Speaker 8 (29:08):
Yeah, she was.
Speaker 11 (29:09):
Something that we get rind pickle toll or or something
like that.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
And under the sort of.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
Tense just staring in.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Did she ever talk about anyone that did scare her
or someone that was perhaps willing to go out with
her who she rejected?
Speaker 11 (29:26):
I got someone who the only person's always who's always
stuck on me more and is something we new with
And it was two or three doors.
Speaker 6 (29:34):
Again.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
She'd also told her neighbor about what she'd seen. Here's
the statement of Heather Hansen.
Speaker 10 (29:44):
Again, she brought up the subject of a prowler that
had been in the area. She had told me previously
that she kept a knife under her mattress for safety's sake.
She showed me a knife in the kitchen drill one
day the Monday night before she died as well as
the one that she kept under her mattress. The one
(30:07):
she showed me in the kitchen was about half an
inch wide and a long blade. She said that she
would use the one under the mattress or the one
in the drawer if she was attacked. The one under
the mattress had a wooden handle, a rusty blade pointed
at the end, with a piece missing from the upper
edge of the knife.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
But it seems Margaret never told her husband Malcolm about
a prowler. Were you aware that there were some complaints
about a prowler in the area. Margaret being one of them,
had complained that of a prowl and I think shortly
around the time of the twenty first she thought she
saw a man actually looking into the window of your house.
Speaker 7 (30:49):
No, I wasn't aware about night.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Were you aware that Margaret had been sleeping with a
knife under her pillow?
Speaker 7 (30:56):
No.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
On the night before will Margaret died, that would be
the Thursday night, Margaret had a small party at her home.
Here's what her friend Heather recalls.
Speaker 10 (31:09):
There were quite a few people there, about eight people,
including Dale and a man who was with the man
two houses up from Margaret's everyone went home except Dale
and the other man. The other man was drunk when
he left. Dale left after the man walked up the road.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So who's Dale the last person to leave the party?
Remember the young motorcyclist who discovered Margaret's body. That's Dale
and the man with the neighbor from two doors up,
someone called person X. You'll learn more about him in
episodes to come. On Margaret's last day alive Friday, February tenth,
(31:53):
nineteen seventy eight, she went to the Serena Hospital with Heather.
Both had to see a doctor. Afterwards, Margaret told Heather
the doctor estimated she was six weeks pregnant.
Speaker 10 (32:06):
After we left the hospital, she went to the chemist
and had a prescription filled for nerve tablets. She told
me previously that she had a nervous breakdown some years before.
I noticed that she was always trembling and shaking. I
saw her again about two forty five pm. She left
with Dale. I saw her again at seven pm. She
(32:28):
sat on the front steps and spoke for ten minutes
or so. She said that she was going to have
an early night and if anybody came there would be trouble.
She appeared quite dopey, and I took it that she
was taking the nerve tablets that the doctor had given her.
She didn't appear to be under the influence of liquor
at that stage. She was dressed in black shorts and
(32:48):
a green, purple and black blouse. I didn't see Margaret
Kurston felt after that. I did learn she'd been found
lying on our front lawn later that night. Night I
returned home that night at about eleven forty five pm,
police were at her house.
Speaker 12 (33:08):
Then you try to think, for I don't think.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Next time what happened to Margaret.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
And it was then when I.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Look down the sword.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
The try to thinker the disturbing recollections of those who
were first on the scene, and there was a lot
of nice in the in the kitchen to seek for
that as well and the surprising discovery.
Speaker 7 (33:41):
We have a very young baby and hand within the house.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
If you have information about the Margaret Kirstenfeld case, please
let us know. Email us at Pendulum podcast at gmail
dot com, or go to seven US dot com dot AU.
Forward Slash Pendulum presenter and executive producer Paula Donovan, writer
(34:40):
and producer Sally Eels, sound design, Mark Wright Graphics, Jason
Blandford transcripts Susan Bush. Our theme music is the Clock
Is Ticking by Dark Orb Music. See our show notes
(35:02):
for all music credits. With thanks to seven Years Brisbane
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