September 15, 2019 • 48 mins
A closer look at the people who were in Margaret's life and community at the time of her death in February 1978. Did any of them have something to hide?
Credits:
Presenter / Investigative Crime Journalist - Paula Doneman
Producer / Writer - Sally Eeles
Sound Design - Marc Wright
TV reporter - Mackenzie Ravn
Graphics - Jason Blandford
With thanks to:
The team at 7 News Brisbane, Annette Caltabiano, Georgia Done, Letitia Wallace, Susan Bush, Alex Wright Media, Mackay City Council Library.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mom dies violently in
a small Queensland town. Suicide or murder? What happened to
Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows? This is Pendulum episode nine.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm Paula Donovan. The Bruce Highway stretches the length of
Queensland's coast from the capital Brisbane in the south, all
the way to Cannes in the tropical far North. It's
a distance of around one thousand, seven hundred kilometers and
connects many major centers, including the Sunshine Coast, Bunderberg, Rockhampton,
(01:12):
Mackay and Townsville in the north. Parts of the highway
are prone to flooding during summer, when cyclones and monsoon
or rain are prevalent. In the nineteen sixties and much
of the seventies, the Bruce Highway did not exist as
it does today. The route was officially opened on November tenth,
(01:35):
nineteen seventy seven. Prior to that, the drive at Queensland's
coast was along numerous connecting highways and roads. One particular
part was notorious. It was known as the Marlboro Stretch,
two hundred and fifty kilometers of road that linked the
(01:57):
tiny community of Marlborough with the town of Serena. Travelers
sometimes went missing. Others who pulled over the stretch or
sleep were shot at. Some, like Noel and Sophie Weckett
(02:17):
in nineteen seventy five, were murdered. In March nineteen seventy five,
a Canberra Times article described the Malbourne stretch as the
lonely road where motor I see only two service stations.
Eight years earlier, in nineteen sixty seven, the same newspaper
(02:41):
reported that Rex Patterson, the then federal Labor Minister for
Northern Development, always drove that part of the highway with
a loaded rifle.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
In the past eighteen months, shootings and ambushes had turned
it into a nightmare street for the public.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Two men had been shot and their bodies wrapped in
netting thrown in a creek.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Another man had been shot dead rock camped in a car,
and four other people, including a woman, had.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Been ambushed shot. Few of the crimes were ever solved.
There are also reports that grazes on properties between Rockhampton
and Mackay called for more police protection for their families
following the large number of violent incidents. On one of
(03:38):
my recent visits, to Serena. We drove the Marlborough Stretch.
Former police officer Peter Howard came with us.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
It came along this light.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The reason he was posted to Serena in the first
place was to boost police numbers and increased patrols along
the Marlborough Stretch in the wake of a double murder.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Right Ober Stretch, Horror Stretch, Holly of a name, sir
that it was known by, but it was you know,
it was a sparsely populated area. There was very little
communications in those eyes. The phones come out. We'd get
accidents stand out of the range and it would use
Hijieff radio, but that was very, very subjective to apospheric
(04:24):
conditions and many is the time we would have to
drive sixty seven one hundred cays back at the top
of the Seret range to get any radio, had contact
with anybody to pass it the request for TI truck's
undertaker's and NKS an amulance history that was it was
(04:47):
a very isolated area.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Neil Raywood, the scientific police officer who investigated Margaret Kirstenfeldt's
remembers that time too, especially when he went to the
Morgant Mackay where Margaret's body was held.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
Well, certainly, I've been attended at more than many occasions.
There's been a feeling not tourist area for murders on
the Marlborough Stretch, and as Moore was very antiquated.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Is it possible that who ever haunted the Marlboro Stretch
in the nineteen seventies came to Serena Beach Road on
the night of February tenth, nineteen seventy eight and found
a young mother home alone with her baby. Was a
stranger responsible for Margaret's death? Or was it someone she knew.
(05:50):
Margaret was last seen alive by Kay Mattin and her
mother driving past her Serena Beach Road home at around
ten twenty to ten thirty pm. At the time, Margaret
was sitting on the front stairs, the house was in darkness.
(06:10):
Her body was found by Dalpaine around ten forty pm.
By then lights were on in the house. That's a
window of twenty minutes at most for Margaret's injuries to
have been inflicted. According to Detective Hassenkam.
Speaker 7 (06:30):
The investigations made in connection with this matter on eleventh
of February failed to produce a suspect of any importance.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
However, based on what we've pieced together from witness statements
and our more recent interviews, we've come up with a
list of persons of interest. This is by no means
a list of suspects. There is no suggestion of either
guilt or innocence. All are linked to Margaret in some way.
(06:59):
We'll go through them one by one. There are, in
no particular order. Number one Malcolm Kurstenfeldt, Margaret's husband, was
one of the first people questioned by police.
Speaker 7 (07:16):
He of course, immediately came under scrutiny and urgent inquiries
were made in connection with his whereabouts.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
As Malcolm himself states in episode four, I wass.
Speaker 8 (07:28):
Say I would be their main suspect. Tessors.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You can understand why from what friends, family, and neighbors
have said. Malcolm and Margaret's relationship was rocky. Life was hard.
He worked long hours and was rarely at home. Margaret
was alone with two very young children to care for.
(07:51):
Her only contact with her old life in jin Dowie
was by phone, a payphone that was up the road
on the corner of Laurie Street and Serena Beach Road,
which she had to collect coins to use and walk
or drive to. Then Malcolm found out his wife was
seeing other men. As Detective Hassenkam mentioned in his report.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
The marriage was normal until the deceased and her husband
moved to Serena in September nineteen seventy seven. Subsequent to
that date, friends noticed a change in the deceased, particularly
regarding the number of male friends that she was associating with.
It would seem that the marriage began to break up
about Christmas nineteen seventy seven, due to mainly arguments over
(08:39):
insignificant things. The deceased's husband became aware that she was
associating with other men, particularly one He learned that she
was of the opinion she was pregnant about twentieth of
January nineteen seventy eight. The relationship was so strained that
kirsten Felt took his eldest child and went to Jen
Dowie early in January nineteen seventy eight. He was residing
(09:02):
with the deceased parents at the time of her death.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Malcolm says he did take their toddler son Colin away
for a while, but it was partly to see his father,
who was very ill at the time. He says he
also spent time with his sister in Ipswich and had
been out with his mates in jen Dowie the night
Margaret died. When police found him in the early hours
of Sad Day, February eleventh, nineteen seventy eight, the morning
(09:31):
after his wife's death, Malcolm was sleeping in his car
outside the home of Margaret's parents. He says he was
intending to return to Margaret in Serena that day. Detective
Hassenkham noted the following.
Speaker 7 (09:47):
The deceased made a number of telephone calls to her
parents and husband before her death, inquiring after their health
and the health of their son. She also spoke of
a reconciliation in the marriage, but on the day of
her death, she she spoke to both her father and
her husband in jen Dowie by telephone and informed them
that she did not think the marriage would work and
that there did not appear to be any reason to
(10:09):
keep trying. She went as far as to tell her
father she was finished with her husband and that she
was feeling on top of the world and relaxed. On
the last occasion, that is, the day of her death,
the deceased telephoned her husband. He informed her that he
intended to travel to Serena on or about eleventh of
February and bring the eldest son back to her. It
(10:29):
was then that she informed him that she did not
think the marriage would work, that she was spending a
lot of time on her own, and that she felt
more relaxed. The telephone conversation that took place was at
about eight pm on tenth of February nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
So Malcolm was in jen Dowie when Margaret died in Serena.
It would take more than eight hours to drive between
the two towns, and that's on today's highways. In today's
modern cars. Presumed that it would have taken longer. Back
in the nineteen seventies, police did the calculations, so.
Speaker 8 (11:07):
They just sort of sort of was trying to determine
I think, did I have time to get him a guy,
do Phil Margaret and then get back to jan DOWI
I think that was their nature of their questioning.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Officers soon came to the conclusion that Malcolm could be
ruled out.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
It was established that he was in fact at jan
Dowie at the time. The deceased died and could not
have been connected in any way with her death.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Number two Dale Payne, eighteen year old dow was the
motorcyclist who found Margaret's body. He was a friend of
Margaret's and had spent time with her the day she died.
They had gone swimming in the afternoon at Plaining Creek,
and he dropped her home around three thirty pm. That night.
(12:03):
He chatted with her briefly at the pie cart where
she worked around seven o'clock. After that, he saw a
friend at the railway station before heading to the Serena
home of his then girlfriend, Margaret Hollis. He left there
around ten forty pm before heading out to check on Margaret.
(12:26):
Dal later added to his police statement with more details
of his movements before he discovered Margaret's body. He stated
that after he saw his friend at the railway station,
he purchased a dozen stubbies and took them home to
put them in a fridge for a fishing trip the
next day. Dale said he then headed to his girlfriend's
(12:47):
place in Brook Street and recalled that the Bobby Dazzler
show had just finished when he arrived. I spoke with
Dale over the phone He told me that for a
long time, gossip was rife and he felt as though
(13:07):
people blamed him. According to Hassenkam's report, he knew.
Speaker 7 (13:15):
The deceased for about six weeks prior to her death.
He was aware that she was living apart from her
husband and visited her at home on a number of occasions.
He denied having sexual intercourse with her at any time,
though I accept this with certain reservations.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
He later added, some.
Speaker 7 (13:32):
Suspicion was held in relation to Paine. There were a
number of small inconsistencies in his version of what happened
and also in relation to his actions.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
However, it was found that Dal could not be connected
to the death of Margaret. The first police on scene
were also quick to dismiss him as anyone of relevance.
If you recall from episode three, this is what Craig
Robertson had to say.
Speaker 9 (14:01):
Dale was there. It was late at night. We didn't
certainly see anyone else at that time. We didn't see
anyone loitering in the in the street or leaving the premises.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And did Dale appear to you to be genuinely panicked?
Speaker 9 (14:21):
He was definitely upset, and the situation was certainly very confronting.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Did he have any signs of any blood or anything
on him that you can recall?
Speaker 9 (14:34):
I can't recall anything about Dale that led me to
believe that he was involved with the inflicting of the
injuries on Margaret.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
He appeared genuinely upset.
Speaker 10 (14:47):
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
As for Craig's colleague, Peter Howard, did you know Dale
Payne at all prior to that? Are you you?
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
What did you think about him?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Typically you typical young fellow. I actually knew his mum
and dad. It's a small community, so you know, most
of the prominent people and the young felers are get
are in the town. So from the mast a police officer,
you're going to talk to a lot of the young
fellers and that sort of thing. And I knew him
from marin the ten and never had any trouble with
(15:18):
him that I recall, So no reason to think ill
of the lad anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Imagine that would have been life changing being confronted with
the scene like that.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I'm sure it would have been for him.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Number three, the man whom Margaret believed she was pregnant
to you, We have to remove his name for legal reasons.
Because he has mentioned frequently, will call him b whenever possible,
although his name will continue to be bleaked in readings
of police statements. He still lives in the Arena region
(15:55):
and has declined our requests for an interview. We do
know about him has been gleaned from the police statements
of Margaret's friends. This is what her neighbor, Heather Hanson
had to say about the relationship between Margaret and be
back in nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
She informed me that their marriage was breaking up, that
was lonely and needed someone. About Christmas time nineteen seventy seven,
she told me she thought she was pregnant. She told
me later that whilst she was going with Margaret continued
to have other men call at her house.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But as we know from pathologist Ian Wilke, who conducted
the autopsy, Margaret was not pregnant.
Speaker 8 (16:42):
The uterss was enlarged, but histological examination showed no evidence
of pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
According to Heather Hanson, Bee was not interested in Margaret.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
She told me three days before she died that and
her were finished. He had got a mate to tell
her that he was finished with her. She was apparently
upset because she got drunk at home.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
However, another acquaintance, Marsha Breed, said Margaret wasn't upset at all.
She saw Margaret and her neighbor Heather briefly when they
drove to Mackay on the Tuesday before Margaret died.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
She told me that had stopped seeing her and that
she wasn't speaking with him very much. She didn't seem
too worried about it.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Then, in the police report of Detective Milton Hassenkham, there's
mention of Gary Hopkins, a friend of Bee, the one
who was tasked with breaking things off with Margaret.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
Some ten days before the deceased died. Gary Hopkins spoke
about the latter's association with the deceased, informed him that
he considered the deceased was coming on too strong and
he wanted to be free of her. He asked Hopkins
to inform her of his desires. He subsequently did so.
She then told Hopkins that she was pregnant and that
(18:06):
if he were not there, Hopkins, that is, she would
kill herself.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It's unknown whether Bee ever gave a statement to police.
I certainly have not been able to access one, and
nothing under his name was tended to the Coroni during
the inquest. Either, we've been told that detectives did visit
Bee at his workplace. Interestingly, Milton Hassenkam's report does not
(18:33):
definitively rule out Bee, as he does with Malcolm Kurstenfeldt
and Dale Payne. Number four Joe McLeod. As you may
recall from episode eight, Joe only became known to us
(18:54):
because he was mentioned by taxi driver Alan Servis.
Speaker 12 (19:00):
And as far as I'm concerned, a decent young lady.
The only thing she said to me one night, and
I didn't know this fellow, she said, I've got myself
a boyfriend, Allen. I said, oh yes, she said yeah.
I said, oh, well that's good. Do you like him?
She said yes I do. I said what's his name?
She said, Joe MacLeod. Do you know him? I said no,
(19:20):
I don't, And she said he's been taking me swimming.
I said, all right over the range somewhere she said.
I said, oh, you want to be careful. I said,
how long have you known him? She said two days.
I said you'd be careful going away like that, young lady.
I said, you don't know what can happen, you know?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Until then? We hadn't heard or seen this name anywhere.
When we asked police and I was connected to the case,
no one could remember anyone called Joe McLeod. However, we
found a reference to a Joe in a statement of
Margaret's friend Marsha Breed.
Speaker 11 (19:57):
Explained very much and that she was pregnant. Guy called
and that she'd been playing up with a few blokes.
She mentioned Arnie the bloke from next door, a guy called.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Joe Marshall also lists Dale and Gary. But Joe, the
mysterious Joe. We need to find out more about him.
Number five other men and women. There are a number
of names dotted throughout the statements of Margaret's female friends
(20:30):
of men she was known to associate with. Are they significant?
Maybe maybe not, but it's worthwhile going through them. One
is Gary Hopkins, No one amongst locals as Hoppy. He
died in the year two thousand at the age of
(20:50):
fifty six. He's the friend of Bee who called off
the association with Margaret. This is what Detective Hassenham wrote
about Gary.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Gary William Hopkins was acquainted with the deceased. He had
known her for some four months prior to her death.
He was of the opinion that the marriage was quite
normal and happy until about six weeks before the deceased died.
On that occasion, he visited the Kirston Felt residence during
the temporary absence of her husband. The deceased told Hopkins
that she was sick of putting up a good front
(21:23):
to the marriage, that she could not stand her husband
touching her or being near her, and that she was
tossing him out. Hopkins and the deceased spent some time together.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Later that night, it seemed Margaret told Hopkins that she
was very worried about money and how she was going
to provide for her young family.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
According to Hopkins, the deceased was upset and informed Hopkins
that she did not know what to do. She was pregnant,
in receipt of sixty five dollars per week benefits, forty
five dollars of which was paid for rent, and only
twenty dollars on which to keep her children herself for
the week. Her husband wanted to come back, but she
did not want anything further to do with him. On
(22:06):
one occasion, the deceased proposed to Hopkins that they should
live together, but he did not agree.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Ultimately, Gary Hopkins was ruled out as having any connection
to Margaret's death. There's also mentioned of Arnie the man
from next door. We found out Arnie Jones was a
local mechanic. He was about eleven years older than Margaret
and died in twenty fourteen. Arnie had a workshop that
(22:35):
could be accessed via a dirt track behind Margaret's home.
Local residents told me Arnie's marriage broke down just after
Margaret's death. This is retired police officer Peter Howard, and they.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Gave access from Beach Riding. All the back were a
chap and a mechanical workshop for Ernie Jones, and he
lived in life area there as well. And to gain
access to Arnie's workshop you drove behind these houses.
Speaker 9 (23:07):
Along with the track.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
There were other bits of pieces there. There was whole
machinery and big metal crates and this sort of thing
that was stacked along there too, which but close to
Arnie Jones's workshop.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
How many meetings would that bean would the workshop be
from Margaret's house?
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Fifty I suppose might be less, probably fifty minutes. There
were three houses on the end of the on the
end of Beach Road before you get to this tractor
came into Arny Jones's workshop and before you got to
the ravay crossing the cane tram crossing, and they were
all owned by the same chap and from recollection, I'm
(23:50):
not sure that any of them had fences. They certainly
didn't have any fences in the front. I don't think
that side fences.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
On the night before Margaret's day, yeah, the Thursday night,
she had a number of guests visit her friend, Marsha Breed.
Marsha's fiance Frank Harris, and her daughter Glenda Dale Payne
was there, as were three men, Bob Kelly, Lindsay Hearn
(24:19):
and Alan Hughes. I haven't been able to find out
much about Bob, Lindsay or Allan or their association to Margaret.
We know that Lindsay may have had a panel van.
From Marsha's statement, it appears tentative plans were made for
Lindsay to pick up Margaret the next evening on the
(24:40):
Friday night and take her to Mackay to visit her friends. However,
Margaret declined the offer, instead saying she'd make her own
way there on the Sunday. According to Neighbourheather Hansoon. There
were also two other.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Visitors, including Dale and a man who was with the
man two houses up from Margaret's.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I believe she's referring to Gary Hopkins and Person X,
or neighbors Albert Barkie and Person X. From Marsha's description,
alcohol was flowing freely on the night stage.
Speaker 11 (25:14):
Lindsay was full, Gary was full, and Bob was pretty merry.
Dale didn't have a drink at all. He said, I'm
on franquil Isa's and I've got ulcers.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Marsha said Margaret was an excellent mother who loved her children,
but was likes in her housework. She considered her of
stable mind and had never seen her depressed or cause
an argument, but she had noticed that Margaret's morals and
drinking habits had changed completely since they first met.
Speaker 11 (25:44):
I recall that Margaret had a blackout at about nine
or a little after on that date. I think that
she got bumped on the head with a tin of
avon powder, and Lindsay was in the bathroom with her.
She fell back into his arms, and I heard Lindsay
scream out, Marsha, come quick. I went into the bathroom
and she was lying back in Lindsay's arms, and she
appeared to be unconscious. Lindsay slapped her around the cheeks
(26:06):
and she came around after about one and a half minutes.
She was perfectly normal after that.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
A couple of questions, Why was Lindsay in the bathroom
with Margaret? And is it possible this fall is connected
with the bruise found on her chin during the autopsy.
We've mentioned the men that Margaret was known to have
associated with, but what about the women, the wives, girlfriends, sisters,
(26:35):
and mothers of these men. Could they have more information
or knowledge about the case. We know from police statements
that Margaret was friendly with Marsha Breed from Mackay, neighbors
Heather Hansen and Anne Large and Kay Matten who lived
down the road. But did Margaret have any other female acquaintances,
(26:59):
ones that she may have met through her work at
the pie cart. Had her arrival in town created a stir?
Was there any gossip? Had she made any enemies or
was she relatively unknown? Number six the prowler. Talk of
(27:29):
a prowler in the Serena area in nineteen seventy eight
was rife.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
The prowler was active in the area where Margaret's house
was at least were houses owned by an old chapman
in Serena that generally the prowling information was coming from
living probably one hundred meters of those houses.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
On the night of her twenty first birthday party, about
three weeks earlier, Margaret had confided in her brother Brian
her concerns about a peeping tom and how she kept
a knife under her bed. Then, on the evening before
her death, when Margaret had guests come to visit, there
(28:20):
was a commotion. Marsha breeds as it was sparked when
her daughter Glenda was spooked.
Speaker 11 (28:29):
Glenda looked at me, all white and said, Mum, there's
a man at the window.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
We all got up.
Speaker 11 (28:35):
I went to the window, and someone went to the
front door, and someone to the back door. There was
no one at the window, but Margaret met them at
the front door. She said, Ah, it's only Allan and Garian.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
And this name that's bleeped out again for legal reasons,
is who we've previously referred to as Person X. More
on him soon. What Marsha goes on to say is
a little confused, but it seems that the prowler had
been heard knocking on a nearby door and members of
the neighborhood were out in force to track him down.
Speaker 11 (29:10):
I saw the man had a gun and he had
a bullet belt around his waist. Someone said that someone
had knocked on a door up the road. Gary came
inside and was talking to Bob Kelly in the lounge.
The others all left in different directions except Alan. He
sat up on the step and Lindsay. Margaret and Dale
were running around the back of the house. I heard
Margaret say, there he is. I've just seen him run
(29:31):
down the back lane.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
The back lane is the dirt track behind Margaret's home
that led to Arnie Jones' workshop.
Speaker 11 (29:42):
Someone said with They all came back and I spoke
with him at the front of the house. I said,
someone will get shot. He said, well, the law won't
do anything. Someone's got it, or words to that effect.
Alan said similar words about lack of police assistance. I said,
you won't solve anything by taking the law into your own.
Why don't all you people get together and try and
(30:02):
find out who it is. It would have been about
eleven o'clock at that stage.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
As Marsha was preparing to go home, Margaret made plans
to see her friend in Mackay that weekend.
Speaker 11 (30:17):
I said, come in on Sunday for a few hours.
She said, okay, I'll drop my own car in. She
said to Lindsay, don't worry about coming out. He said, okay,
see you on Sunday. I said to Dale, look after her,
see your Sunday. And I turned the car horn and
we drove off.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So that's what happened on the Thursday night. On the Friday,
just hours before she died, Margaret discussed her fears about
the prowler with neighbors Heather Hansen and Anne Large.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
She brought up the subject of a prowler that had
been in the area. She said that she was going
to have an early night and if anybody came there
would be trouble. She had told me previously that she
kept a knife under her mattress for safety's sake. She
showed me a knife in the kitchen drawer one day
the Monday night before she died, as well as the
one she kept under her mattress. She said that she
(31:13):
would use the one under the mattress or the one
in the drawer if she was attacked.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Police were in the habit of driving along Serena Beach
Road at night and spotlighting any movement they detected in
their search for a prowler. They were aware of the
dirt track behind the houses.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Well, the prowler's presence were in half yards, so you know,
obviously we were looking in the yards and such, but
I was well aware of that access and when we
checked those areas, we normally checked through to there as well.
But the yards were big yards, they weren't particularly large,
and you could see straight through to the back of
that track from the road with a spotlight, which is
(31:56):
what we used from out of the car, so you know,
you could see through to there until you came into
where they had it backed up to Armie Jones's workshop.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So if someone was in the house that night, the
offender could have had an alternative get away. Basically to
get out didn't have to go through the front.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Door, straight through the back door and at the back
and along that track.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Was there a fence behind Margaret? Do you remember whether
there was a fence.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
No, look, I couldn't say, but one thing I would say,
if there was a fence, it was just a wire fence.
Not a not like a house fence that you would say, right,
so like.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
An old cyclone fence. Whether he's called the old cyclone fences,
it's right, more like a three screen wife. According to
Detective hassen Cam, on the night Margaret died, Constables Peter
Howard and Craig Robertson had been spotlighting along Serena Beach Road.
Speaker 7 (32:53):
At about ten thirty pm, Albert Herbert Barkie went to
his front yard. A police vehicle went past, and the
occupants of the vehicle flashed a spotlight on him and
then continued in the direction of Serena Beach.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Albert lived a couple of doors down from Margaret. He
died in twenty twelve. However, I interviewed him back in
two thousand and seven. He told me that the prowler
would knock on the doors and windows of houses along
Beach Road. Detective Hassenkam was also aware.
Speaker 7 (33:28):
What did become significant was that during the short space
of time between the time the deceased was last seen
alive and when she was found dead, there were a
number of persons particularly alert to get some evidence to
connect the alleged prowler in the vicinity to a particular
house or yard. Although Barkie and were both inside and
outside their residence and other persons were in close proximity,
(33:51):
nothing of an unusual nature was detected, and no screams
or other activity were heard from the deceased's home.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
According to dale statement, Margaret's fear of repeeping tom is
the reason he rode his motorbike to her home to
check on her.
Speaker 13 (34:07):
On the night of February ten, I went to my
girlfriend's place, Margaret Hollis. I stayed at to about ten
forty pm. I then made my Honda motorcycle to beatroat
Savanna to check out on Kirstenfeld make sure that she
was all right. She had Tommy previously that she was
worried about a prowler around her house.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Interestingly, after Margaret's body was found, talk of a prowler
quickly evaporated from my recollection.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
The complaints about the prowler stopped after Margaret's dead, and
that might well have been because of the amount of
police activities that was as a result of that death.
But I don't recall any reporters of the prowl or
after that, and I don't recall a s aspect ever
(34:55):
being generated throughout policing efforts on the brander.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Albert Bachee believed the prowler handed himself into police soon
after Margaret's death and then left town Number seven Person X.
He was a twenty eight year old man who lived
on Serena Beach Road. We have since confirmed he lived
(35:23):
two doors up from Margaret's home and next door to Albert.
He apparently had previously resided at the local caravan park,
having moved from Rockhampton to Serena sometime late nineteen seventy
five or early nineteen seventy six to work as a
laborer and trade assistant for Queensland Rail. He moved there
(35:48):
with his de facto wife, who he had met in Rockhampton,
and her five children. Albert was originally from Brisbane, but
he met his wife Jenny in Serena. They had a
couple of children. He worked for the local council and
was shocked by Margaret's death. Albert also claimed he never
(36:08):
met Margaret, although she lived three houses away.
Speaker 10 (36:13):
It was a tragedy something I cannot comprehend for a
young woman and her little one. I never met her,
but knew of her living in the house on her
own with the little kid. I thought it was a murder.
Everybody was shocked. Serena is such a quiet town. It
made us feel unsafe. We were a bit edgy until
(36:33):
the prowler gave himself up.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
It's not clear how and when Albert and Person X met,
but there is mention of Person X in the statements
of Margaret's neighbor Heather Hansen and friend Marsha Breed. Neither
seemed to trust him.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
On the night before she died, that would be the
Thursday night, Margaret had a party at her house. Everyone
went home except Dale and the other man. The other
man was drunk when he left. Dale left after the
man walked up the road.
Speaker 11 (37:12):
I considered that the man was a loudmouth, and I
didn't like him at all. I had a feeling that
he may have been the prowler, and I told Frank
this at the time he was there.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
However, Albert has denied that Person X was the prowler.
As much as I've tried, I haven't been able to
locate any Serena resident who can remember Person X. I've
shown his photo, I've said his name, the one he
used back in nineteen seventy eight and the one he's
known by now. But no one, not even the woman
(37:45):
who ran the caravan park at the time he lived there,
can recall him except retired police officer Craig Robertson, who
has a very clear memory.
Speaker 9 (38:01):
That there was one particular male who I knew of
prior to Margaret's death and after Margaret's death, who I
believe would have been a person of interest due to
his behavior and the times that I had come across
(38:22):
him whilst of work. I'm sure that investigators at the
time were made aware of this person.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
How did you come to know him or did you
come to your attention prior to Margaret's death.
Speaker 9 (38:37):
Part of my work as a general guty officer in
Serena was mainly just general patrol work on evening shifts
from anywhere from two pm through to two am or
or earlier in the morning. The vast majority of those
were silo patrolls, and a number of times after pub
(39:01):
closing time or late in the evening, i'd see the
gentleman that you mentioned walking the streets of Serena, mainly
in the central business area and up at the Serena
Caravan Park in the area of Serena caravan.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Park, but while Person X was a frequent late night wanderer,
Craig Robertson said, there was nothing concrete to suggest that
he was Serena's prowler.
Speaker 9 (39:33):
If I recall correctly, there was one or two occasions
I spoke as to what he was doing at that
particular place and time. However, at no time was he
actually committing any offenses.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Do you remember any of his explanations recollection?
Speaker 9 (39:55):
I was going home from the pub of just Our
for a walk at.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Night, but Person X definitely was not someone the police
officer trusted.
Speaker 9 (40:06):
I had, also, if my memory is correct, attended a
disturbance of some type at the caravan park involving that
male person and a woman and some children. But I
can't recall the relationship between those and the male person
(40:29):
that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Do you remember the nature of his involvement in the
actual incident.
Speaker 9 (40:34):
It was a hovestic violence type situation where I believe
that he may have assaulted the female. I'd certainly say
that he had consumed some liquor and that he was
reasonably agitated at the time.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Did you arrest him?
Speaker 9 (40:58):
Na and those particular days there was no specific legislation
addressing domestic violence unlike the present legislation, and with no
complaint forthcoming from the other persons involved, the situation was
(41:20):
calmed and settled, and therefore no further action was deemed
to be appropriate at that time.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Do you remember how he reacted to you when you arrived, Unsceene.
Speaker 9 (41:30):
He wasn't aggressive towards myself. However, from his demeanor, etc.
I certainly wouldn't have turned my back on him.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And the woman. Did you see any obvious injury on her,
like physical evidence of an assault?
Speaker 9 (41:49):
I believe there was some physical evidence of assault, but
certainly nothing that would require medical attention.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Don't get any sense of him at all, Like some
police have great gut instincts about people, and it may
not be something that ever materializes on a charred sheet
or so to speak, but you get a feel of people.
There was there anything any alarm bells at all that
he that he tripped for you as a police officer.
Speaker 9 (42:23):
Most certainly, although he had not committed any offenses that
I knew of, as I said earlier, I certainly would
not have trusted him or turned my back on him.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Person X was questioned after Margaret's death.
Speaker 9 (42:44):
I believe the serene of Caravan fact that he was
residing there sometime prior to Margaret's death, and I would
say that that would be approximately a k and a
half two kilometers from the caravan pact to where Margaret
was residing. I believe he was spoken to at some time,
(43:10):
but I cannot recall when or by whom.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There's no record of a statement from him that I've seen. However,
years later, in two thousand and four, when interviewed by
Queensland Homicide detectives from the Cold Case Unit re examining
Margaret's case, person exclaimed that the name Margaret kirsten Felt.
Speaker 14 (43:34):
Means nothing to me, although I have an idea she
lived on the other side of the Joneses. We arrived
home from a sightseeing trip and they took me back
to the Serena police station. I don't remember signing statements.
Was interviewed by the police, but I can't.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Remember However, he did remember this.
Speaker 14 (43:54):
I think I met her because a prowler was in
the area, always knocking on her door.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
He was also aware that Margaret had split up with
her husband and was living alone with her young children.
Items belonging to someone named Willis were tested for bloodstains.
The results came back as not matching Margaret's blood grouping.
I still don't know who this person is, nor do
(44:23):
any of the Serena residents I spoke with who lived
in the town at the time of Margaret's death. The
clothing of person X pajamas, shorts and undies, a pillow
case and towel were tested too, but nothing was found.
Peter Iby, now retired, was the one who collected the items.
(44:48):
At the time, he was a plain closed police constable
working for the Rockhampton Criminal Investigation Branch.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
No, I didn't see him there at a displaker woman.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
What you spoke to her about? I wait, just general.
Speaker 8 (45:03):
Knowledge that what is in what close them I've been wearing,
and that's when washed his clothes.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
So did this woman wash away potential evidence before police
sees the clothing? Was it out of the ordinary for
her to wash the clothes on a Friday night? And
did she see any blood on them? I Bey and
his partner at the time, Detective Sergeant Clary Williams, could
(45:30):
not remember enough to answer these questions. However, Williams told
me in two thousand and seven. This woman was the
de facto wife of person X. From what I can gather,
they split up years ago. With so many questions to ask,
I've spent a long time trying to track her down.
(45:52):
Finally in July I did, only to discover that I
was three months too late. She died in April this
year and is buried in the Aboriginal shire of Sherberg
in Queensland, about seven hundred and fifty kilometers south of Serena.
(46:12):
Peter Iby and his partner, Detective Clarie Williams, were adamant
that Margaret was murdered and that Person X was suspect
number one, and there was a firm reason why. Three
years earlier, in nineteen seventy five, three hundred kilometers away
(46:34):
in Rockhampton, person X had been charged with murder and
the victim a young woman, and there were other similarities too.
(47:22):
If you have information about the Margaret Kirstenfeld case, please
let us know. Email us at Pendulum podcast at gmail
dot com, or go to seven US dot com dot AU.
Forward Slash Pendulum presenter and executive producer Paula Donovan, writer
(47:50):
and producer Sally Eels, Sound design Mark Wright graphics, Jason
Blandford transcripts Susan Bush. Our theme music is the Clock
Is Ticking by Dark All music. See our show notes
(48:12):
for full music credits. With thanks to seven Years Brisbane
In nineteen seventy eight, a young mom dies violently in
a small Queensland town. Suicide or murder? What happened to
Margaret Kirstenfeld? Someone knows? This is Pendulum episode nine.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm Paula Donovan. The Bruce Highway stretches the length of
Queensland's coast from the capital Brisbane in the south, all
the way to Cannes in the tropical far North. It's
a distance of around one thousand, seven hundred kilometers and
connects many major centers, including the Sunshine Coast, Bunderberg, Rockhampton,
(01:12):
Mackay and Townsville in the north. Parts of the highway
are prone to flooding during summer, when cyclones and monsoon
or rain are prevalent. In the nineteen sixties and much
of the seventies, the Bruce Highway did not exist as
it does today. The route was officially opened on November tenth,
(01:35):
nineteen seventy seven. Prior to that, the drive at Queensland's
coast was along numerous connecting highways and roads. One particular
part was notorious. It was known as the Marlboro Stretch,
two hundred and fifty kilometers of road that linked the
(01:57):
tiny community of Marlborough with the town of Serena. Travelers
sometimes went missing. Others who pulled over the stretch or
sleep were shot at. Some, like Noel and Sophie Weckett
(02:17):
in nineteen seventy five, were murdered. In March nineteen seventy five,
a Canberra Times article described the Malbourne stretch as the
lonely road where motor I see only two service stations.
Eight years earlier, in nineteen sixty seven, the same newspaper
(02:41):
reported that Rex Patterson, the then federal Labor Minister for
Northern Development, always drove that part of the highway with
a loaded rifle.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
In the past eighteen months, shootings and ambushes had turned
it into a nightmare street for the public.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Two men had been shot and their bodies wrapped in
netting thrown in a creek.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Another man had been shot dead rock camped in a car,
and four other people, including a woman, had.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Been ambushed shot. Few of the crimes were ever solved.
There are also reports that grazes on properties between Rockhampton
and Mackay called for more police protection for their families
following the large number of violent incidents. On one of
(03:38):
my recent visits, to Serena. We drove the Marlborough Stretch.
Former police officer Peter Howard came with us.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
It came along this light.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The reason he was posted to Serena in the first
place was to boost police numbers and increased patrols along
the Marlborough Stretch in the wake of a double murder.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Right Ober Stretch, Horror Stretch, Holly of a name, sir
that it was known by, but it was you know,
it was a sparsely populated area. There was very little
communications in those eyes. The phones come out. We'd get
accidents stand out of the range and it would use
Hijieff radio, but that was very, very subjective to apospheric
(04:24):
conditions and many is the time we would have to
drive sixty seven one hundred cays back at the top
of the Seret range to get any radio, had contact
with anybody to pass it the request for TI truck's
undertaker's and NKS an amulance history that was it was
(04:47):
a very isolated area.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Neil Raywood, the scientific police officer who investigated Margaret Kirstenfeldt's
remembers that time too, especially when he went to the
Morgant Mackay where Margaret's body was held.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
Well, certainly, I've been attended at more than many occasions.
There's been a feeling not tourist area for murders on
the Marlborough Stretch, and as Moore was very antiquated.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Is it possible that who ever haunted the Marlboro Stretch
in the nineteen seventies came to Serena Beach Road on
the night of February tenth, nineteen seventy eight and found
a young mother home alone with her baby. Was a
stranger responsible for Margaret's death? Or was it someone she knew.
(05:50):
Margaret was last seen alive by Kay Mattin and her
mother driving past her Serena Beach Road home at around
ten twenty to ten thirty pm. At the time, Margaret
was sitting on the front stairs, the house was in darkness.
(06:10):
Her body was found by Dalpaine around ten forty pm.
By then lights were on in the house. That's a
window of twenty minutes at most for Margaret's injuries to
have been inflicted. According to Detective Hassenkam.
Speaker 7 (06:30):
The investigations made in connection with this matter on eleventh
of February failed to produce a suspect of any importance.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
However, based on what we've pieced together from witness statements
and our more recent interviews, we've come up with a
list of persons of interest. This is by no means
a list of suspects. There is no suggestion of either
guilt or innocence. All are linked to Margaret in some way.
(06:59):
We'll go through them one by one. There are, in
no particular order. Number one Malcolm Kurstenfeldt, Margaret's husband, was
one of the first people questioned by police.
Speaker 7 (07:16):
He of course, immediately came under scrutiny and urgent inquiries
were made in connection with his whereabouts.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
As Malcolm himself states in episode four, I wass.
Speaker 8 (07:28):
Say I would be their main suspect. Tessors.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You can understand why from what friends, family, and neighbors
have said. Malcolm and Margaret's relationship was rocky. Life was hard.
He worked long hours and was rarely at home. Margaret
was alone with two very young children to care for.
(07:51):
Her only contact with her old life in jin Dowie
was by phone, a payphone that was up the road
on the corner of Laurie Street and Serena Beach Road,
which she had to collect coins to use and walk
or drive to. Then Malcolm found out his wife was
seeing other men. As Detective Hassenkam mentioned in his report.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
The marriage was normal until the deceased and her husband
moved to Serena in September nineteen seventy seven. Subsequent to
that date, friends noticed a change in the deceased, particularly
regarding the number of male friends that she was associating with.
It would seem that the marriage began to break up
about Christmas nineteen seventy seven, due to mainly arguments over
(08:39):
insignificant things. The deceased's husband became aware that she was
associating with other men, particularly one He learned that she
was of the opinion she was pregnant about twentieth of
January nineteen seventy eight. The relationship was so strained that
kirsten Felt took his eldest child and went to Jen
Dowie early in January nineteen seventy eight. He was residing
(09:02):
with the deceased parents at the time of her death.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Malcolm says he did take their toddler son Colin away
for a while, but it was partly to see his father,
who was very ill at the time. He says he
also spent time with his sister in Ipswich and had
been out with his mates in jen Dowie the night
Margaret died. When police found him in the early hours
of Sad Day, February eleventh, nineteen seventy eight, the morning
(09:31):
after his wife's death, Malcolm was sleeping in his car
outside the home of Margaret's parents. He says he was
intending to return to Margaret in Serena that day. Detective
Hassenkham noted the following.
Speaker 7 (09:47):
The deceased made a number of telephone calls to her
parents and husband before her death, inquiring after their health
and the health of their son. She also spoke of
a reconciliation in the marriage, but on the day of
her death, she she spoke to both her father and
her husband in jen Dowie by telephone and informed them
that she did not think the marriage would work and
that there did not appear to be any reason to
(10:09):
keep trying. She went as far as to tell her
father she was finished with her husband and that she
was feeling on top of the world and relaxed. On
the last occasion, that is, the day of her death,
the deceased telephoned her husband. He informed her that he
intended to travel to Serena on or about eleventh of
February and bring the eldest son back to her. It
(10:29):
was then that she informed him that she did not
think the marriage would work, that she was spending a
lot of time on her own, and that she felt
more relaxed. The telephone conversation that took place was at
about eight pm on tenth of February nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
So Malcolm was in jen Dowie when Margaret died in Serena.
It would take more than eight hours to drive between
the two towns, and that's on today's highways. In today's
modern cars. Presumed that it would have taken longer. Back
in the nineteen seventies, police did the calculations, so.
Speaker 8 (11:07):
They just sort of sort of was trying to determine
I think, did I have time to get him a guy,
do Phil Margaret and then get back to jan DOWI
I think that was their nature of their questioning.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Officers soon came to the conclusion that Malcolm could be
ruled out.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
It was established that he was in fact at jan
Dowie at the time. The deceased died and could not
have been connected in any way with her death.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Number two Dale Payne, eighteen year old dow was the
motorcyclist who found Margaret's body. He was a friend of
Margaret's and had spent time with her the day she died.
They had gone swimming in the afternoon at Plaining Creek,
and he dropped her home around three thirty pm. That night.
(12:03):
He chatted with her briefly at the pie cart where
she worked around seven o'clock. After that, he saw a
friend at the railway station before heading to the Serena
home of his then girlfriend, Margaret Hollis. He left there
around ten forty pm before heading out to check on Margaret.
(12:26):
Dal later added to his police statement with more details
of his movements before he discovered Margaret's body. He stated
that after he saw his friend at the railway station,
he purchased a dozen stubbies and took them home to
put them in a fridge for a fishing trip the
next day. Dale said he then headed to his girlfriend's
(12:47):
place in Brook Street and recalled that the Bobby Dazzler
show had just finished when he arrived. I spoke with
Dale over the phone He told me that for a
long time, gossip was rife and he felt as though
(13:07):
people blamed him. According to Hassenkam's report, he knew.
Speaker 7 (13:15):
The deceased for about six weeks prior to her death.
He was aware that she was living apart from her
husband and visited her at home on a number of occasions.
He denied having sexual intercourse with her at any time,
though I accept this with certain reservations.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
He later added, some.
Speaker 7 (13:32):
Suspicion was held in relation to Paine. There were a
number of small inconsistencies in his version of what happened
and also in relation to his actions.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
However, it was found that Dal could not be connected
to the death of Margaret. The first police on scene
were also quick to dismiss him as anyone of relevance.
If you recall from episode three, this is what Craig
Robertson had to say.
Speaker 9 (14:01):
Dale was there. It was late at night. We didn't
certainly see anyone else at that time. We didn't see
anyone loitering in the in the street or leaving the premises.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
And did Dale appear to you to be genuinely panicked?
Speaker 9 (14:21):
He was definitely upset, and the situation was certainly very confronting.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Did he have any signs of any blood or anything
on him that you can recall?
Speaker 9 (14:34):
I can't recall anything about Dale that led me to
believe that he was involved with the inflicting of the
injuries on Margaret.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
He appeared genuinely upset.
Speaker 10 (14:47):
Oh yes.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
As for Craig's colleague, Peter Howard, did you know Dale
Payne at all prior to that? Are you you?
Speaker 5 (14:56):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
What did you think about him?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Typically you typical young fellow. I actually knew his mum
and dad. It's a small community, so you know, most
of the prominent people and the young felers are get
are in the town. So from the mast a police officer,
you're going to talk to a lot of the young
fellers and that sort of thing. And I knew him
from marin the ten and never had any trouble with
(15:18):
him that I recall, So no reason to think ill
of the lad anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Imagine that would have been life changing being confronted with
the scene like that.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I'm sure it would have been for him.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Number three, the man whom Margaret believed she was pregnant
to you, We have to remove his name for legal reasons.
Because he has mentioned frequently, will call him b whenever possible,
although his name will continue to be bleaked in readings
of police statements. He still lives in the Arena region
(15:55):
and has declined our requests for an interview. We do
know about him has been gleaned from the police statements
of Margaret's friends. This is what her neighbor, Heather Hanson
had to say about the relationship between Margaret and be
back in nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
She informed me that their marriage was breaking up, that
was lonely and needed someone. About Christmas time nineteen seventy seven,
she told me she thought she was pregnant. She told
me later that whilst she was going with Margaret continued
to have other men call at her house.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But as we know from pathologist Ian Wilke, who conducted
the autopsy, Margaret was not pregnant.
Speaker 8 (16:42):
The uterss was enlarged, but histological examination showed no evidence
of pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
According to Heather Hanson, Bee was not interested in Margaret.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
She told me three days before she died that and
her were finished. He had got a mate to tell
her that he was finished with her. She was apparently
upset because she got drunk at home.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
However, another acquaintance, Marsha Breed, said Margaret wasn't upset at all.
She saw Margaret and her neighbor Heather briefly when they
drove to Mackay on the Tuesday before Margaret died.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
She told me that had stopped seeing her and that
she wasn't speaking with him very much. She didn't seem
too worried about it.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Then, in the police report of Detective Milton Hassenkham, there's
mention of Gary Hopkins, a friend of Bee, the one
who was tasked with breaking things off with Margaret.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
Some ten days before the deceased died. Gary Hopkins spoke
about the latter's association with the deceased, informed him that
he considered the deceased was coming on too strong and
he wanted to be free of her. He asked Hopkins
to inform her of his desires. He subsequently did so.
She then told Hopkins that she was pregnant and that
(18:06):
if he were not there, Hopkins, that is, she would
kill herself.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
It's unknown whether Bee ever gave a statement to police.
I certainly have not been able to access one, and
nothing under his name was tended to the Coroni during
the inquest. Either, we've been told that detectives did visit
Bee at his workplace. Interestingly, Milton Hassenkam's report does not
(18:33):
definitively rule out Bee, as he does with Malcolm Kurstenfeldt
and Dale Payne. Number four Joe McLeod. As you may
recall from episode eight, Joe only became known to us
(18:54):
because he was mentioned by taxi driver Alan Servis.
Speaker 12 (19:00):
And as far as I'm concerned, a decent young lady.
The only thing she said to me one night, and
I didn't know this fellow, she said, I've got myself
a boyfriend, Allen. I said, oh yes, she said yeah.
I said, oh, well that's good. Do you like him?
She said yes I do. I said what's his name?
She said, Joe MacLeod. Do you know him? I said no,
(19:20):
I don't, And she said he's been taking me swimming.
I said, all right over the range somewhere she said.
I said, oh, you want to be careful. I said,
how long have you known him? She said two days.
I said you'd be careful going away like that, young lady.
I said, you don't know what can happen, you know?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Until then? We hadn't heard or seen this name anywhere.
When we asked police and I was connected to the case,
no one could remember anyone called Joe McLeod. However, we
found a reference to a Joe in a statement of
Margaret's friend Marsha Breed.
Speaker 11 (19:57):
Explained very much and that she was pregnant. Guy called
and that she'd been playing up with a few blokes.
She mentioned Arnie the bloke from next door, a guy called.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Joe Marshall also lists Dale and Gary. But Joe, the
mysterious Joe. We need to find out more about him.
Number five other men and women. There are a number
of names dotted throughout the statements of Margaret's female friends
(20:30):
of men she was known to associate with. Are they significant?
Maybe maybe not, but it's worthwhile going through them. One
is Gary Hopkins, No one amongst locals as Hoppy. He
died in the year two thousand at the age of
(20:50):
fifty six. He's the friend of Bee who called off
the association with Margaret. This is what Detective Hassenham wrote
about Gary.
Speaker 7 (21:01):
Gary William Hopkins was acquainted with the deceased. He had
known her for some four months prior to her death.
He was of the opinion that the marriage was quite
normal and happy until about six weeks before the deceased died.
On that occasion, he visited the Kirston Felt residence during
the temporary absence of her husband. The deceased told Hopkins
that she was sick of putting up a good front
(21:23):
to the marriage, that she could not stand her husband
touching her or being near her, and that she was
tossing him out. Hopkins and the deceased spent some time together.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Later that night, it seemed Margaret told Hopkins that she
was very worried about money and how she was going
to provide for her young family.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
According to Hopkins, the deceased was upset and informed Hopkins
that she did not know what to do. She was pregnant,
in receipt of sixty five dollars per week benefits, forty
five dollars of which was paid for rent, and only
twenty dollars on which to keep her children herself for
the week. Her husband wanted to come back, but she
did not want anything further to do with him. On
(22:06):
one occasion, the deceased proposed to Hopkins that they should
live together, but he did not agree.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Ultimately, Gary Hopkins was ruled out as having any connection
to Margaret's death. There's also mentioned of Arnie the man
from next door. We found out Arnie Jones was a
local mechanic. He was about eleven years older than Margaret
and died in twenty fourteen. Arnie had a workshop that
(22:35):
could be accessed via a dirt track behind Margaret's home.
Local residents told me Arnie's marriage broke down just after
Margaret's death. This is retired police officer Peter Howard, and they.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Gave access from Beach Riding. All the back were a
chap and a mechanical workshop for Ernie Jones, and he
lived in life area there as well. And to gain
access to Arnie's workshop you drove behind these houses.
Speaker 9 (23:07):
Along with the track.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
There were other bits of pieces there. There was whole
machinery and big metal crates and this sort of thing
that was stacked along there too, which but close to
Arnie Jones's workshop.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
How many meetings would that bean would the workshop be
from Margaret's house?
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Fifty I suppose might be less, probably fifty minutes. There
were three houses on the end of the on the
end of Beach Road before you get to this tractor
came into Arny Jones's workshop and before you got to
the ravay crossing the cane tram crossing, and they were
all owned by the same chap and from recollection, I'm
(23:50):
not sure that any of them had fences. They certainly
didn't have any fences in the front. I don't think
that side fences.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
On the night before Margaret's day, yeah, the Thursday night,
she had a number of guests visit her friend, Marsha Breed.
Marsha's fiance Frank Harris, and her daughter Glenda Dale Payne
was there, as were three men, Bob Kelly, Lindsay Hearn
(24:19):
and Alan Hughes. I haven't been able to find out
much about Bob, Lindsay or Allan or their association to Margaret.
We know that Lindsay may have had a panel van.
From Marsha's statement, it appears tentative plans were made for
Lindsay to pick up Margaret the next evening on the
(24:40):
Friday night and take her to Mackay to visit her friends. However,
Margaret declined the offer, instead saying she'd make her own
way there on the Sunday. According to Neighbourheather Hansoon. There
were also two other.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Visitors, including Dale and a man who was with the
man two houses up from Margaret's.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I believe she's referring to Gary Hopkins and Person X,
or neighbors Albert Barkie and Person X. From Marsha's description,
alcohol was flowing freely on the night stage.
Speaker 11 (25:14):
Lindsay was full, Gary was full, and Bob was pretty merry.
Dale didn't have a drink at all. He said, I'm
on franquil Isa's and I've got ulcers.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Marsha said Margaret was an excellent mother who loved her children,
but was likes in her housework. She considered her of
stable mind and had never seen her depressed or cause
an argument, but she had noticed that Margaret's morals and
drinking habits had changed completely since they first met.
Speaker 11 (25:44):
I recall that Margaret had a blackout at about nine
or a little after on that date. I think that
she got bumped on the head with a tin of
avon powder, and Lindsay was in the bathroom with her.
She fell back into his arms, and I heard Lindsay
scream out, Marsha, come quick. I went into the bathroom
and she was lying back in Lindsay's arms, and she
appeared to be unconscious. Lindsay slapped her around the cheeks
(26:06):
and she came around after about one and a half minutes.
She was perfectly normal after that.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
A couple of questions, Why was Lindsay in the bathroom
with Margaret? And is it possible this fall is connected
with the bruise found on her chin during the autopsy.
We've mentioned the men that Margaret was known to have
associated with, but what about the women, the wives, girlfriends, sisters,
(26:35):
and mothers of these men. Could they have more information
or knowledge about the case. We know from police statements
that Margaret was friendly with Marsha Breed from Mackay, neighbors
Heather Hansen and Anne Large and Kay Matten who lived
down the road. But did Margaret have any other female acquaintances,
(26:59):
ones that she may have met through her work at
the pie cart. Had her arrival in town created a stir?
Was there any gossip? Had she made any enemies or
was she relatively unknown? Number six the prowler. Talk of
(27:29):
a prowler in the Serena area in nineteen seventy eight
was rife.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
The prowler was active in the area where Margaret's house
was at least were houses owned by an old chapman
in Serena that generally the prowling information was coming from
living probably one hundred meters of those houses.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
On the night of her twenty first birthday party, about
three weeks earlier, Margaret had confided in her brother Brian
her concerns about a peeping tom and how she kept
a knife under her bed. Then, on the evening before
her death, when Margaret had guests come to visit, there
(28:20):
was a commotion. Marsha breeds as it was sparked when
her daughter Glenda was spooked.
Speaker 11 (28:29):
Glenda looked at me, all white and said, Mum, there's
a man at the window.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
We all got up.
Speaker 11 (28:35):
I went to the window, and someone went to the
front door, and someone to the back door. There was
no one at the window, but Margaret met them at
the front door. She said, Ah, it's only Allan and Garian.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
And this name that's bleeped out again for legal reasons,
is who we've previously referred to as Person X. More
on him soon. What Marsha goes on to say is
a little confused, but it seems that the prowler had
been heard knocking on a nearby door and members of
the neighborhood were out in force to track him down.
Speaker 11 (29:10):
I saw the man had a gun and he had
a bullet belt around his waist. Someone said that someone
had knocked on a door up the road. Gary came
inside and was talking to Bob Kelly in the lounge.
The others all left in different directions except Alan. He
sat up on the step and Lindsay. Margaret and Dale
were running around the back of the house. I heard
Margaret say, there he is. I've just seen him run
(29:31):
down the back lane.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
The back lane is the dirt track behind Margaret's home
that led to Arnie Jones' workshop.
Speaker 11 (29:42):
Someone said with They all came back and I spoke
with him at the front of the house. I said,
someone will get shot. He said, well, the law won't
do anything. Someone's got it, or words to that effect.
Alan said similar words about lack of police assistance. I said,
you won't solve anything by taking the law into your own.
Why don't all you people get together and try and
(30:02):
find out who it is. It would have been about
eleven o'clock at that stage.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
As Marsha was preparing to go home, Margaret made plans
to see her friend in Mackay that weekend.
Speaker 11 (30:17):
I said, come in on Sunday for a few hours.
She said, okay, I'll drop my own car in. She
said to Lindsay, don't worry about coming out. He said, okay,
see you on Sunday. I said to Dale, look after her,
see your Sunday. And I turned the car horn and
we drove off.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So that's what happened on the Thursday night. On the Friday,
just hours before she died, Margaret discussed her fears about
the prowler with neighbors Heather Hansen and Anne Large.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
She brought up the subject of a prowler that had
been in the area. She said that she was going
to have an early night and if anybody came there
would be trouble. She had told me previously that she
kept a knife under her mattress for safety's sake. She
showed me a knife in the kitchen drawer one day
the Monday night before she died, as well as the
one she kept under her mattress. She said that she
(31:13):
would use the one under the mattress or the one
in the drawer if she was attacked.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Police were in the habit of driving along Serena Beach
Road at night and spotlighting any movement they detected in
their search for a prowler. They were aware of the
dirt track behind the houses.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Well, the prowler's presence were in half yards, so you know,
obviously we were looking in the yards and such, but
I was well aware of that access and when we
checked those areas, we normally checked through to there as well.
But the yards were big yards, they weren't particularly large,
and you could see straight through to the back of
that track from the road with a spotlight, which is
(31:56):
what we used from out of the car, so you know,
you could see through to there until you came into
where they had it backed up to Armie Jones's workshop.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So if someone was in the house that night, the
offender could have had an alternative get away. Basically to
get out didn't have to go through the front.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Door, straight through the back door and at the back
and along that track.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Was there a fence behind Margaret? Do you remember whether
there was a fence.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
No, look, I couldn't say, but one thing I would say,
if there was a fence, it was just a wire fence.
Not a not like a house fence that you would say, right,
so like.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
An old cyclone fence. Whether he's called the old cyclone fences,
it's right, more like a three screen wife. According to
Detective hassen Cam, on the night Margaret died, Constables Peter
Howard and Craig Robertson had been spotlighting along Serena Beach Road.
Speaker 7 (32:53):
At about ten thirty pm, Albert Herbert Barkie went to
his front yard. A police vehicle went past, and the
occupants of the vehicle flashed a spotlight on him and
then continued in the direction of Serena Beach.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Albert lived a couple of doors down from Margaret. He
died in twenty twelve. However, I interviewed him back in
two thousand and seven. He told me that the prowler
would knock on the doors and windows of houses along
Beach Road. Detective Hassenkam was also aware.
Speaker 7 (33:28):
What did become significant was that during the short space
of time between the time the deceased was last seen
alive and when she was found dead, there were a
number of persons particularly alert to get some evidence to
connect the alleged prowler in the vicinity to a particular
house or yard. Although Barkie and were both inside and
outside their residence and other persons were in close proximity,
(33:51):
nothing of an unusual nature was detected, and no screams
or other activity were heard from the deceased's home.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
According to dale statement, Margaret's fear of repeeping tom is
the reason he rode his motorbike to her home to
check on her.
Speaker 13 (34:07):
On the night of February ten, I went to my
girlfriend's place, Margaret Hollis. I stayed at to about ten
forty pm. I then made my Honda motorcycle to beatroat
Savanna to check out on Kirstenfeld make sure that she
was all right. She had Tommy previously that she was
worried about a prowler around her house.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Interestingly, after Margaret's body was found, talk of a prowler
quickly evaporated from my recollection.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
The complaints about the prowler stopped after Margaret's dead, and
that might well have been because of the amount of
police activities that was as a result of that death.
But I don't recall any reporters of the prowl or
after that, and I don't recall a s aspect ever
(34:55):
being generated throughout policing efforts on the brander.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Albert Bachee believed the prowler handed himself into police soon
after Margaret's death and then left town Number seven Person X.
He was a twenty eight year old man who lived
on Serena Beach Road. We have since confirmed he lived
(35:23):
two doors up from Margaret's home and next door to Albert.
He apparently had previously resided at the local caravan park,
having moved from Rockhampton to Serena sometime late nineteen seventy
five or early nineteen seventy six to work as a
laborer and trade assistant for Queensland Rail. He moved there
(35:48):
with his de facto wife, who he had met in Rockhampton,
and her five children. Albert was originally from Brisbane, but
he met his wife Jenny in Serena. They had a
couple of children. He worked for the local council and
was shocked by Margaret's death. Albert also claimed he never
(36:08):
met Margaret, although she lived three houses away.
Speaker 10 (36:13):
It was a tragedy something I cannot comprehend for a
young woman and her little one. I never met her,
but knew of her living in the house on her
own with the little kid. I thought it was a murder.
Everybody was shocked. Serena is such a quiet town. It
made us feel unsafe. We were a bit edgy until
(36:33):
the prowler gave himself up.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
It's not clear how and when Albert and Person X met,
but there is mention of Person X in the statements
of Margaret's neighbor Heather Hansen and friend Marsha Breed. Neither
seemed to trust him.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
On the night before she died, that would be the
Thursday night, Margaret had a party at her house. Everyone
went home except Dale and the other man. The other
man was drunk when he left. Dale left after the
man walked up the road.
Speaker 11 (37:12):
I considered that the man was a loudmouth, and I
didn't like him at all. I had a feeling that
he may have been the prowler, and I told Frank
this at the time he was there.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
However, Albert has denied that Person X was the prowler.
As much as I've tried, I haven't been able to
locate any Serena resident who can remember Person X. I've
shown his photo, I've said his name, the one he
used back in nineteen seventy eight and the one he's
known by now. But no one, not even the woman
(37:45):
who ran the caravan park at the time he lived there,
can recall him except retired police officer Craig Robertson, who
has a very clear memory.
Speaker 9 (38:01):
That there was one particular male who I knew of
prior to Margaret's death and after Margaret's death, who I
believe would have been a person of interest due to
his behavior and the times that I had come across
(38:22):
him whilst of work. I'm sure that investigators at the
time were made aware of this person.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
How did you come to know him or did you
come to your attention prior to Margaret's death.
Speaker 9 (38:37):
Part of my work as a general guty officer in
Serena was mainly just general patrol work on evening shifts
from anywhere from two pm through to two am or
or earlier in the morning. The vast majority of those
were silo patrolls, and a number of times after pub
(39:01):
closing time or late in the evening, i'd see the
gentleman that you mentioned walking the streets of Serena, mainly
in the central business area and up at the Serena
Caravan Park in the area of Serena caravan.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Park, but while Person X was a frequent late night wanderer,
Craig Robertson said, there was nothing concrete to suggest that
he was Serena's prowler.
Speaker 9 (39:33):
If I recall correctly, there was one or two occasions
I spoke as to what he was doing at that
particular place and time. However, at no time was he
actually committing any offenses.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Do you remember any of his explanations recollection?
Speaker 9 (39:55):
I was going home from the pub of just Our
for a walk at.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Night, but Person X definitely was not someone the police
officer trusted.
Speaker 9 (40:06):
I had, also, if my memory is correct, attended a
disturbance of some type at the caravan park involving that
male person and a woman and some children. But I
can't recall the relationship between those and the male person
(40:29):
that you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Do you remember the nature of his involvement in the
actual incident.
Speaker 9 (40:34):
It was a hovestic violence type situation where I believe
that he may have assaulted the female. I'd certainly say
that he had consumed some liquor and that he was
reasonably agitated at the time.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Did you arrest him?
Speaker 9 (40:58):
Na and those particular days there was no specific legislation
addressing domestic violence unlike the present legislation, and with no
complaint forthcoming from the other persons involved, the situation was
(41:20):
calmed and settled, and therefore no further action was deemed
to be appropriate at that time.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Do you remember how he reacted to you when you arrived, Unsceene.
Speaker 9 (41:30):
He wasn't aggressive towards myself. However, from his demeanor, etc.
I certainly wouldn't have turned my back on him.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And the woman. Did you see any obvious injury on her,
like physical evidence of an assault?
Speaker 9 (41:49):
I believe there was some physical evidence of assault, but
certainly nothing that would require medical attention.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Don't get any sense of him at all, Like some
police have great gut instincts about people, and it may
not be something that ever materializes on a charred sheet
or so to speak, but you get a feel of people.
There was there anything any alarm bells at all that
he that he tripped for you as a police officer.
Speaker 9 (42:23):
Most certainly, although he had not committed any offenses that
I knew of, as I said earlier, I certainly would
not have trusted him or turned my back on him.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Person X was questioned after Margaret's death.
Speaker 9 (42:44):
I believe the serene of Caravan fact that he was
residing there sometime prior to Margaret's death, and I would
say that that would be approximately a k and a
half two kilometers from the caravan pact to where Margaret
was residing. I believe he was spoken to at some time,
(43:10):
but I cannot recall when or by whom.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There's no record of a statement from him that I've seen. However,
years later, in two thousand and four, when interviewed by
Queensland Homicide detectives from the Cold Case Unit re examining
Margaret's case, person exclaimed that the name Margaret kirsten Felt.
Speaker 14 (43:34):
Means nothing to me, although I have an idea she
lived on the other side of the Joneses. We arrived
home from a sightseeing trip and they took me back
to the Serena police station. I don't remember signing statements.
Was interviewed by the police, but I can't.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Remember However, he did remember this.
Speaker 14 (43:54):
I think I met her because a prowler was in
the area, always knocking on her door.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
He was also aware that Margaret had split up with
her husband and was living alone with her young children.
Items belonging to someone named Willis were tested for bloodstains.
The results came back as not matching Margaret's blood grouping.
I still don't know who this person is, nor do
(44:23):
any of the Serena residents I spoke with who lived
in the town at the time of Margaret's death. The
clothing of person X pajamas, shorts and undies, a pillow
case and towel were tested too, but nothing was found.
Peter Iby, now retired, was the one who collected the items.
(44:48):
At the time, he was a plain closed police constable
working for the Rockhampton Criminal Investigation Branch.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
No, I didn't see him there at a displaker woman.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
What you spoke to her about? I wait, just general.
Speaker 8 (45:03):
Knowledge that what is in what close them I've been wearing,
and that's when washed his clothes.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
So did this woman wash away potential evidence before police
sees the clothing? Was it out of the ordinary for
her to wash the clothes on a Friday night? And
did she see any blood on them? I Bey and
his partner at the time, Detective Sergeant Clary Williams, could
(45:30):
not remember enough to answer these questions. However, Williams told
me in two thousand and seven. This woman was the
de facto wife of person X. From what I can gather,
they split up years ago. With so many questions to ask,
I've spent a long time trying to track her down.
(45:52):
Finally in July I did, only to discover that I
was three months too late. She died in April this
year and is buried in the Aboriginal shire of Sherberg
in Queensland, about seven hundred and fifty kilometers south of Serena.
(46:12):
Peter Iby and his partner, Detective Clarie Williams, were adamant
that Margaret was murdered and that Person X was suspect
number one, and there was a firm reason why. Three
years earlier, in nineteen seventy five, three hundred kilometers away
(46:34):
in Rockhampton, person X had been charged with murder and
the victim a young woman, and there were other similarities too.
(47:22):
If you have information about the Margaret Kirstenfeld case, please
let us know. Email us at Pendulum podcast at gmail
dot com, or go to seven US dot com dot AU.
Forward Slash Pendulum presenter and executive producer Paula Donovan, writer
(47:50):
and producer Sally Eels, Sound design Mark Wright graphics, Jason
Blandford transcripts Susan Bush. Our theme music is the Clock
Is Ticking by Dark All music. See our show notes
(48:12):
for full music credits. With thanks to seven Years Brisbane
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