September 4, 2024 • 37 mins
“Harrowing” is how Nicky Buckley describes her Menopause journey. The Aussie Model and TV Presenter shares how her Mother’s death from Ovarian Cancer made her terrified of H.R.T. and how she’s regained her inner goddess.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Going by the beat of her own drum is aptly
the title of this installment of Rage Against the Menopause.
I'm Patrina Jones and I met Nicki Buckley through a
mutual friend, fashion designer Lisa Barron. The model and TV
presenter synonymous with shows like Sale of the Century and
Perfect Match in the nineties and more recently Postcards, was
(00:23):
keen to share her lived experience on menopause. Reeling from
the early death of her mother from ovarian cancer. Nicki
has always been vigilant about her health and fitness, and
a timely guest for episode eight, coinciding with Gene Hale's
Women's Health Week. Well, my next guest is an Ossie
(00:45):
TV presenter and model.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Very well known.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
She became known in the nineties as co host to
Greg Evans on The Blind. Daish also knew it as
Perfect Match before that, and of course who could forget this.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Lumble century and now here is Glen rep Thank you
very much. Be Hi everyone, Hello, walk in the file
that could be when you were to Thursday Night. I'm
very exciting night Tray carry out the champions. Before we
talked to him, though, please give a very warm welcome
to Nicky Buckley, Hey Nikki, how are you all?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Love?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Hearing that that takes me back to being in secondary
school and mum cooking meat and three vegs for dinner. No, no, no,
but you've been doing it for a decade time.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Like, just hearing that is just fond fond fond, fond
fond memories.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Tell me about Sale of the Century? How did it
come about?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I mean I started out my I guess, my
career in that area as a model. Yeah, and then
Murray when I was overseas, Murray got a job modeling
on Sale of the Century. Your husband, yes, And so
I remember coming back from overseas and him saying, come
and have lunch with me in Channel nine. So I
went in and got spotted by I guess one of
(02:01):
the producers from Grundy's, and so I started, I auditioned
and started as a model on the show for a
long time, which was just fabulous. And actually had a
dinner on Sunday with some of the girlfriends that I
used to work with and you know, and like you know,
nearly forty years still catching Yeah, So we had great,
great time, great friendship. Got to work with Mars on
(02:23):
the show, and from that I got to audition when
they were re auditioning for Blind Day, Perfect Match. Grundies
ran both shows, so they invited all of us models
to audition for the show, and I got the gig
on Blind Day Perfect Match with Greg Evans. So I
left the modeling, went and did that for only six
(02:46):
months my time there, I you know, realistically kind of
got the sack after six months because I wouldn't you know,
I was pretty straight, and so you know, they wanted
someone a little bit more giggly and flirty, and I
was quite you know, they'd say before i'd go out
it tonight. Now, remember when you go out and I
just be you know, say this joke to you know,
to Greg and do a little bit of this, and
I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd go out and
(03:07):
I'd be so straight, so, you know, fair enough. So
then I realized after doing that that I really enjoyed
the job, and so I went and studied acting and
took voice lessons just to kind of get me over
that fear of making a fool of myself. And that's
where I was straight. Yeah, And so then at a
certain point then I went back to modeling on Sale
(03:30):
and a lot of my friends, you know, and people
said to me, why are you going back to modeling,
because you're now a presenter, you know, why are you
going back? And I'm like, well, because it's a good job.
I've got a mortgage and I enjoy the work. But
what I did along the way was I started studying acting,
which I loved, and then the opportunity came up to
audition for the role actually for the weather over, the
(03:52):
filling in for Rob Jel and so I auditioned for that,
and because of my confidence I built up with the acting.
I guess I got that role. And then we were
asked to audition for the co host on Sale with Glenn,
and I guess all of that kind of fell into place.
I felt really when I was asked to audition for that,
I was really confident because I'd done my acting. I
(04:13):
just felt really comfortable. Yep. So I didn't feel like, oh,
I've got to get this, and just like had fun
and got the job. So you were yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I loved watching you you always now that I know you,
I love that what I thought you would be you
really are. You're such a warm, down to earth natural person.
But you're also very I think why you were an
idol to me is because I could see a strong
woman on the screen and you're saying that you wouldn't
sort of fit into that cookie cutter role of perhaps
(04:44):
maybe I'm wrong, correct me being kind of the ditsy blonde.
I love that about you, and I think you were
such a role model to girls in their late teens
that I was. One other time that I really admired
you is when you were pregnant and I'm not sure
if it was with your first son, and you copped
a lot of crap about what was it just wearing
(05:07):
a maternity dress on the show.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So I was, yeah, that was on Sale of the
Century and that that is like twenty seven years ago.
Now this is how old Cooper is, So that's just
so bizarre. But at the time of doing Sale, it
was a glamorous role, and you know, I was happy
with that. I was a model and I enjoyed getting
dressed up and you know, made up and all of
that kind of thing. So we used to film five
(05:30):
shows in one day, the week show, and you know,
every night you had a different you know, dress, and
it was a glamorous you know, dress. So when I
found out that I was pregnant, it was during our
summer break. I once again, you know, telling my girlfriends,
and they actually said to me, so, what's going to
happen with your job? Will you continue working? I said yeah?
And they said, well, what will they do like build
(05:51):
a podium for you to stand behind or something. My
girlfriends and I said, what do you mean? They said,
you know, see, you're not showing your tummy.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I said, oh no, and this is the late nineties,
we might point now, yeah, like not nineteen twenty.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So he's ninety seven he was, you know wow. So anyway,
I just said, no, I'll just keep working. And so
what happened was there was no nice evening where it
was caftan neck. To me, that was what was ya?
No choices? What's like a sheet? Yea and no choices.
So we just kind of went, oh, well, we'll just
(06:23):
keep getting a bigger size in a stretchy, nice evening dress.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So that's what I and that's the point. No one
wore type fitting Matt clothing.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It was all sailor collars and stupid ties and big,
billowy dresses like you'd take off in a gust of wind.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And so Lisa Baron, who you know lovely. She is
an Australian you know, iconic designer, and I always she
always dressed me. She dressed me on on blind dates,
dressed me on sale and I used to be her
you know, she calls it, you know, her muse for
her fashion brades. And they used to have these strained
designer collection parades once a year and each designer would
have you know, a celebrity or someone walk for them,
(06:59):
and they'd bring out international models from overseas. And this
particular year, Lisa and I had done the last couple
and Lisa said, I'd love you to walk for me again.
I said, oh, Lisa, I can't. I'm five months pregnant.
And she goes, yeah, I know. And I said, well,
you know, I won't be offended because you know, I
can't really do it. She goes, why not and I said, oh, well,
you know. She goes, no, I've got this idea. I've
got this idea. And she created this dress which was
(07:19):
a black I remember it very well, sleeve hug the
figure hugging with a heart cut out over the belly,
and she goes, I want to celebrate your you know,
your pregnancy and womanhood. And I'm like, okay, cool, and
so I bore that down the catwalk.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
It was groundbreaking. Yeah, it was ground and I remember
it made the news. It was on the nightly news.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It was yeah, it was. It became very controversial. It
like we were trying to make some kind of stance,
which I guess in a way we were just going
and going, why can't I steal you? Embracing it, But
it cused a massive stir where, you know, a current
affair round a story on it. All the radio stations
and stories. Magazines ran stories, the newspaper had polls. Should
(08:04):
I be allowed to you know, be seen showing the belly,
you know, and everything that grew with it, you know,
the bust and everything. And I continue to work right
up until a week before and I look back at
some of the footage now of me jumping around that
you know turntable, wobbling, wobbling around, waddling, and just like
(08:26):
I look and go, oh my god, I was huge.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
No, what a beautiful memory to capture. You've got that now,
and your son's got that and then future grandchildren. I
think it was amazing and I think, well, Lisa's a
trailblazer as well. You know, I think I think it
was great that brings to the point of here we are,
all these years, since the late nineties talking menopause. Yes,
(08:49):
you're a trailblazer.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
That happened.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I know when did that happen? And I, you know,
as someone in the limelight, as you are talking about menopause,
I want to play some audio Sophie Duchess of Wessex.
She is also really vocal in this space.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I love this.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
We all talk about having babies, but nobody talks about
the parents.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Nobody talks about the menopause. Why not.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
It's something that happens to us twelve times, certainly pair
is twelve times a year. It's something that's incredibly normal.
But it's something that is very hidden, and I think
it's time to say enough.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
What is the shame? Why haven't we spoken menopause?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well? I think that it is coming out from under
the covers at the moment, which is great. But yeah,
I don't know. I guess you know from our mums
and I lost my mum twenty years ago, so I
can never talk to her about it. But I just
know that, you know, people were seen to be a
bit crazy and a bit nutty, and you know, perhaps
worried about judgment like with the pregnant. Yes, yeah, like
(09:51):
hide it. Yeah, And it is interesting, you know, way
past periods and things like that. But growing up as
yeah girl, you know, it was like never kind of
spoken of out, I guess, And it is a bit
more now, which is kind of nice. But it's yeah,
like having myself now, I would say, I'd say I'm
five years into menopause. So are you post metopausal? Well? No,
(10:15):
I still well, you know, we could discuss in a
sect just you know, having had my recent operation, but like,
how do you know exactly where you are? I know,
I'm still a frustrating thing. Yes, still still a little
bit in it because I still get a little bit
of the you know, the hot flushes, but nowhere near
what I endured.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Right, shall see? Five five years down the train, five
years down the safe to say, how how was your experience?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Was it harrowing? Yeah? It was, really it was. And
I'm the kind of person that doesn't you know, wallow
in that or you know, I put the best face forward.
So when I knew I was coming on to discuss
this with you. I wanted to kind of have a
bit of a think back, because you forget it's like childbirth.
You forget how freck and painful that is, and you do,
(11:01):
but I do know it, you know, it was kind
of five years of I guess the worst of it
for me was part of it was the lack of sleep.
And I recall a time where I was trying to
work out exactly what was happening to me during the
night so I could tell my doctor, and so I
(11:23):
was had. I was documenting it quite an organized first
year I had it. I had a book next to
my bed, and every time I woke up in a dripping, wet,
you know, mess, but also that horrific panic attack and
anxiety that comes with it, or came with it for me,
I wrote down the time and it was like every
(11:43):
hour or hour and a half. So once that happens,
it takes you quite a while to get back to succeed,
and then then I'd go, seriously, has it really been
an hour? And so yeah, So the lack of sleep
from that was horrific, Like you wake up the next
morning and you feel nauseous and you feel sick and
like you've slept at all. No, you know you haven't. No,
(12:05):
So yeah, that part of it, I guess I remember.
And then just having to get through your day feeling
like that is hard.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Did you still have kids at school at that stage,
so you still had that routine of other people relying
on you heavily.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Not too bad in that too, I'd say the middle
of it for me was during COVID. But the blessing
of that was that I could go so in the
morning up, you know, and I could go, you know what,
I can't cope till I've gone back and had a
couple of hours sleep, So I could go back and
sleep till eleven o'clock, could and get those few hours
(12:43):
that then made you feel normal. And my husband was
very supportive with that, and he just knew, like, I'm
just better and we're all better off being a bit
quiet and letting mum get a couple of extra hours
sleep and she'll be happy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But I mean, you've got one of those beautiful, beautiful
marriages where you've been together.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
How long have you been together? Now? It's quite scary. Yeah.
So it's like we met when I was sixteen and
I'm fifty eight, So it's amazing A long time so
ying and Yang.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So he could read the room. How important was he
in supporting you through that period?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I said to him last night when I was
coming in here, like, what's your memory of it? Just
you know what from your point of view, as you know,
being a husband kind of thing. And he said, he
said that he kind of put it back in a
nice one and me, he said that I was amazing
at how I dealt with it. And so we talked
all the way through it because I was jealous of
(13:36):
my girlfriends doing HRT, and I guess if we move
on to that kind of part of it. Whereas I,
having having had lost my mother to avarian cancer, I
was under what I now call the false belief that
if you took HRT you would increase your chances of
cancer avarian or breast. That was the information that we
(13:59):
were and so I was anti anti anti. So all
my girlfriends were going on HRT and getting through everything fine,
and so I was jealous. And I used to say
to Murray, you know, I just I wish I could,
but I know I can't. I just you know, felt
ripped off. I just yeah, and he said yeah. But
and how I remember him saying to me, because the
difference is, Nick, you can compartmentalize it, so you know
you're not going crazy. You know that what is happening
(14:23):
to you is you know the symptoms of menopause, So
you know the anxiety that you feel, the panic attacks
you feel, you know you're not going nuts. It's menopause.
And you can compartmentalize it and go, this is shit,
but I know what it is, so I can put
it in that box and move on and you know,
wait for the glory days when it's all what a
(14:43):
great husband.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
So the panic attacks for you were really like had
you had a history of panic attacks?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
No? No, And it wasn't like some people say, like
I had a panic attack and I was in the
supermarket and I just had to get out to me,
it was it was the feeling that came with the
hot flush or you know the f ashes that some
people call them. So it was like, I liken it too.
If you're you know, if you're ever in a car
and you have to slam on the brakes because you're
just going to an avoid an accident, and that that
(15:11):
a dream comes through, it feels like it hurts. It's
like you feel that. So, you know, you would often
at night and I would have that panic, panic, panic,
panic feeling, and I'd have to say to my head,
it's okay, it's all right, like you're just having just
before the flush comes, and what can I hear?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
What can I smell? And ground yourself? A bit poor thing?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
That's awful, it is, it was, But yeah, all good? Now?
So what did help you? So? I tried everything, you know,
I googled everything, tried everything organic natural that I could.
I remember going to I had a wonderful and have
a wonderful doctor who is a GP and also a
natural path and and I was thinking about it, like
(15:54):
I think that a lot of doctors that you spoke
to once you just straight away said no, I'm not
going down HRT. They didn't necessarily say to me why
because do you realize that there's you know, positive things
frozen cons And they just took me as going not
going there. And so I would try and work with that.
So I had all kinds of organic motion potions and
(16:14):
things you know, concocted that I tried, you know, and
I would try it for months and foul tasting years,
and I would go, Okay, you got to have this,
and then three hours out of lad you know, we'd
do it all. Nothing worked, And so the only way
I got through it in the end was to have
some sleeping pills that you know, steadfastly would not take
(16:35):
every night, but if I knew I had a big
day the next day, if I had because I was working,
if I had a job the next day, then I
would take a sleeping pill. And even though you might
wake up with the flush, you could kind of you
doped a bit, just you know, to go get back to.
That's was how I could get through it kind of thing.
And you know, allow myself maybe one or two nights
a week to have that, and that's what helped.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
For me, you know what you mean when you were
talking about potions. When we were trying to get pregnant,
we went down Chinese medicine because we tried five years
to get Audrey multiple miscarriages and within do polycystic.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
And I went to see this.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Guy and he would boil up each individual woman's brew
and mine and I'm not kidding you it actually had
chook pooh in it. But he would obviously either way
that he cultivated or boiled it or whatever the.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Heck he did with it, it worked.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
In the end, I still believe it was him, that
goddess to the point of a live birth. But you'd
stand on your head for a month if it meant
relief for anything. And I think that's the point is,
you know, HRT has had a bad rap, but it's
something that you have to determine yourself, with all your
team of specialists to see what's best for you, and
(17:50):
what's right for you may not be right for someone else.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, when you said that about the Chinese medicine, that's
another thing that I tried as well. So I had
Chinese medicine and I had you know, the dry needling, yes,
and you and stuff. Yeah, yeah, i'd give that a
go for a few months ago. And I hated that.
I hated, Oh did you You didn't like the no
and it didn't you know. In the end, I kind
of thought, yeah, maybe it's working, Maybe it's work, and
(18:14):
they're like, oh no, it's not. So there was another thing,
but yeah, look that I mean the HRT, Like I said,
I had been of the belief. Everything I read, everything
I was told was that if you took HRT, if
you had an occurrence of you know, breast cancer or
a bearing cancer in your family, then it would increase
(18:34):
your chances of getting that. So that that was what
rang true in my.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Ear is a bit trauma tised from losing your mum
to that trauma disease.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
But of course you would naturally, and I knew that
from my memory Mum was on HRT as well, So
I'm like, Okay, well that happened for her, so that
will happen for It's not going to happen for me. Yes, yes,
And so that's why I steered clear of it. And
because we are having discussions, we are talking with our
friends and that now obviously, one of my girlfriends said,
flicked me a podcast which I flicked to you, which
(19:06):
was an incredible insight for me into the fact that
that whole period of hearing that HRT increases your chances
of cancer was a misrepresentation of a study that was done.
And the study was done in two thousand and two
by the Women's Health Initiative in the USA, and they
(19:27):
did this massive billion dollar study and you know what
they did was, you know, they found all these things.
And they instead of releasing that study as you normally
would to the medical fraternity and the medical people would
you know, dissect it and all out what they want
and go, yeah, that's true. Now I haven't seen that.
They released their study to the media without going through
(19:51):
those proper channel, proper channel. So they had a press
release and put this out and so then as you know,
the press do, they take whatever bits they want. And
the headline in the New York Times was HRT increases
the chance of breast cancer big you know, bold prints.
Same in England on the front cover of the papers.
They're so alarmist, so alarmist because as they dug deeper,
(20:15):
it didn't at all. Wasn't the case that has stuck.
That's two thousand and two, and you know, the FDA
put a black box on it, you know, stating that
in anything that's got you know, estrogen in it, can
you know, lead to an increase in cancer. So and
then they, you know, once they've gone back and checked
it all, it was all a misrepresentation. They misquoted themselves,
(20:37):
and it's the opposite, you know. So yeah, you know
it's important for me, having learned that to just get
I guess that message out to just just check everything
out and see, you know, because you know, it can
be such a horrible, horrible time. You know, marriages can
end over you know, how we change and maybe and
(21:01):
I just think I most definitely would have taken hit
if I knew that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Then to get what you know now.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, yeah, I would have been a much happier person
to be around. And I also remember, like you know,
I probably didn't ask Murray this you listen to this
and wanted to not, you know, he'll go. Yeah. I
kind of thought at the time, I was we're having
problems as well, like everyone does in that time. But
I used to think, no, I'm not crabby with my husband.
(21:29):
No I'm not crappy with my menopause. No, not at all.
I'm just having the hot flushes. And yeah, but it
hasn't made me a snooty, you know, bitchy, snappy person
at all.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Zero two, one hundred and ten point.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Three of a second.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
But in fact it probably it's horrible and I'm setting
other episodes. You know, there'll be days where the rage
and it's usually for me when the hot flush is
a bad it's sort of like hand in hand with
the rage, and I'll just fly off the handle over
something ridiculous, and then then you get that guilt and
you think, oh, that was really out of portion, Like
(22:01):
even the volume of my voice was out of proportion.
So my poor husband will say, you know what, I'm
going to go for a coffee or I'm going to
go and have a walk and just give.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You some time over all off.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
But it's horrible because you can't control. It's a bit
like PMT in that way, and that you just it's
kind of like a it's a real out of body experience.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
And to me it would be an effect of the
night before where yes, you hadn't slept, had not slept,
you know, and you've got to function through the day,
so you're just.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
On edge and running on adrenaline most of the time
on adrenaline.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, and you can't you just can't deal with anything.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Did you find being in the spotlight? Was that harder
for you? Did that put more pressure on you? Do
you think?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Or No? I don't think so. I it was obviously
at a time when you know, we're talking the last
five years, so not the busiest time of my life.
But I still was working and I do recall, and
I was always open with you know, Mars, my boys.
You know, I've just got sons, so I want them
to kind of understand things. They haven't got sisters to
see things. And I remember, you know, a couple of
(23:08):
times at work where I was filming, like presenting roles
and being being filmed interviewing someone and saying, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry,
We've got to stop, you know, and I go, I'm sorry,
I'm just having a whole flush. I've got to step outside.
And I remember the cameraman saying, oh, yeah, my wife's
(23:29):
you know, and just so it was just like, I
can't do anything. I'm actually interviewing someone and I'm overwhelmed,
overwhelmed and dripping the back of my neck is you know,
dripping wet. And I could try and fluff through it.
Can we just stop, because I'm just going to go
out and fand myself and get a bit of you know,
fresh air and talk about it.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And yeah, that's great, And it was fine. And it's
great too that the Cabraman could support you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
That's the thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
I had image and crump On in a previous episode.
I'm not sure if you saw her piece on the APS.
She's an editor at the University of Melbourne and she
was doing an economics report on the ABC and just
totally lost her place, as we all do at times,
and said, I'm sorry, but I'm having a really bad
hot flush and this is on National Breakfast TV. And
(24:18):
I thought, you know what it's really I think it's
given me permission to be more open. I know it
seems like I'm opening doing a podcast on the topic,
but never thought that I could be that open being
in the media, and because I think there is a
thing about you don't want to be seen as weak
and incompetent in the workplace by being honest, but you
(24:43):
do need to lean into all the negatives and the
positives like not you know, I just think it's part.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Of being human percent and it helps other people know
that they're not yeah nuts, and it helps the other
people in the workplace realize that, you know, fifty percent
of the population are going through this, so it's normal.
You know, it's not something to be shamed into and
how normal to go sorry of Don'm just having a
hot flush or you know, you get fold brain, folg,
(25:10):
you go blank on things. Hence you know, I, you know,
like to take notes on things because you can be foggy.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah all the time. Can we talk about your recent
procedure there you had what led to that?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
So the recent procedure was a hysterectomy, a full hysterectomy,
which means removal you know, of the ovaries, you know,
the uterex uterfus and the cervix. So when Mum, it'll
be twenty years ago this year when Mum passed away
from a varian cancer. So I have been an ambassador
for avarian cancer for all this time, and my main
(25:49):
reason for being ambassador is to present the signs and
symptoms of avarian cancer because it's still the silent killer.
There is no really detection test, you know, like you
can have for a mammogram and see a lump. So
ringing in my ears always is my mum at one
of my boys christenings and just kind of standing you know,
(26:12):
around next to me going, oh my god, look at me.
I look like I'm five months pregnant. Look at me.
And I remember thinking, because you know, I probably realistically
a healthier person than mum. Mum you know, smoked a
lot and drank a lot and I would love just
a pie or a cheese toasting. You know. I was
way more organic than that, and so he and never exercised,
and I was so hearing her say that. I remember
(26:33):
in my head just thinking, Mommy's just not looking after yourself,
you know, because she said, yeah, look at me, I
look like i'm and I'm thinking, yeah, that's because you
don't need many clubs, too many cars, you know. Anyway,
it turned out that it was, you know, overarian cancer.
So I just remember back then, for whatever reason, feeling
for quite a while that mum had it. And it
(26:53):
was so far out of the blue, you know, just
all of a sudden. I had never lost anyone like that,
so was Nick. So it was only like sixty five,
sixty six, not that old, no, And so I just thought, well, yeah,
I can get it too, because you know, so I
remember way back then going and seeing a guy on
ecologist about having it or you know, let's just take
(27:14):
it all out because then I can't get it. And
she's like, well, let's just wait awhile, like it's very early,
you know, I went obviously when after I decided I
wasn't having any more children. But you know, I can
throw you into early menopause and that can be quite
horrific and everything. So I just did you know, played
the waiting game of twenty years of having you know,
my ultra sounds and blood tests done every year to
hopefully detect anything.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So do you carry a gene? Is there a gene that?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well? I never see. I was always told test for
the bracker gene. Yeah, but I was also told that
which stuck in my head and maybe it might have changed.
But you needed some of your mum's DNA to tests,
so like when you had heard from a brush all this,
which I didn't. So I never never went down that way.
And so for the for the some I'm getting a
(27:59):
little bit of a flush now strip off. I forgot
to bring my fan no, so I so now I've.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Lost my You was testing with the genes, so you
were testing regularly genes.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But testing with it a larger sound and blood tests
and never tested whether I had the gene or not.
And was kind of happy enough going along there. And
then last December, just before December, I remember all of
a sudden, I went to my doctor said, oh, I've
got because I knew the signs and symptoms you know,
and I'm having like, you know, I've got lower abdomen
(28:36):
pains kind of like period pains, you know, you know,
way past having a period, and so I just it's
alarm bell to me, and also, you know, feeling a
bit bloated. So she said, okay, well, let'sus go and
do some tests other than you normal tests that you have.
And then that came back with some polyps on the
(28:56):
ovaries and the thickening of the uterus and some fibroids.
So to me, that's like, whoa, all that stuff's happened
since my last test. Yeah right, So I went and
had them tested. That all came back fine, But I
said to my gynecologist, Okay, that's it for me. That's
my warning sign. So having having what I doing what
I did was not because I had cancer or you know,
(29:19):
everything came back clear. It was purely my choice for prevention. Yep.
And yeah, I feel good about that.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, well that's good, and I'm glad that you had
a specialist that supported what you wanted to do as well.
It's good to have a good relationship with your doctor
to touch in and not be scared to go, because God,
prevention is so much better than cure.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah. Yeah, And I remember saying to her once we
did the test and it came back that everything was fine,
you know, like the thickening of the uterus can happen.
It was getting you know, fibroads are fine, and the
polyps were benign or whatever. I said, so what do
you think, like, what are your thoughts? And she said, well,
if you you know, I didn't have any history or reason,
(30:07):
I would say, look, if you know, it's up to
you if you want you But she said, having your
history and having your reasons, I think you are fully
going down the right position, you know, which is all
I needed to hear for her. Yep, you know. And
then I kind of went I didn't look into it
too much, you know, I just kind of went, Okay,
I made up my mind. I made up my mind
that's what I'm doing. And if there had been a
(30:30):
few problems, I would have gone to do it straight away.
There wasn't, so I went, okay, I'll do it in
winter because that's probably, you know, a better time, And
I just didn't investigate too much more than that. It
wasn't ntil I've had it done. I started googling everything,
going right, Okay, so that's all gone, and that's all
what is left. What happened in there? You know, well
with it too, Like everyone said to me, oh my god,
it's a it's a really long recovery. Yes weeks and
(30:53):
I was kind of like, after, you know, a few days,
I'm thinking I'll get through this, okay. You know, I
didn't quite understand how the severity, yeah, and how you
have to really just take the time and not do
much at all, which is rather hard for me.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, I'm the same. I had a cesarean section when
I had Audrey and I was home and I'm not
proud to say, but vacuuming like a couple of weeks
later and hanging washing out when I shouldn't, yes, I should,
like you know, yeah, but this is what we do.
We like we're our own worst had.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I started baking bread and I posted something and my
girlfriend who's had also had a hystoryctim me just I
hope Murray lifted that pot into it out of the oven,
because you know, you're not allowed to lift anything.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
We touched on golf before. I know you're an avid golf.
What is your handicap?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I haven't played for six weeks, but I'm from memory
it was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And do you play down the surf coast?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah. So one of my girlfriends that I play
with message me is that when you're coming back. Yeah,
it's really I got back into it during COVID. My
husband's a great golfer. He really enjoys it. So it's
a great thing that you can do, you know, together
and do it with your girlfriends, or you can do
it with mixed couples. And it's yeah, great exercise obviously,
(32:09):
And I am a competitive person, so I like, you know,
whether you're competitive with yourself or competitive with other people.
You know, it's got that bit to it too.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Did that help your mindset going through menopause doing all
those things that brought you joy?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Look for me, Actually it's a good good point. So
dealing with the menopause symptoms which were horrific, knowing that
I wasn't doing HRT, I did everything else that I
could to keep myself fit and well and healthy. So
you know, I'm not an angel. And you know, I
like a pig out, I love chocolate, I you know,
(32:44):
like to have a drink. But I also you know,
I struggled the same with people with weight gain. And
I recall I recall before I ever was in that stage,
a bit like my mum saying look at me, I
look like I'm six months pregnant, and me just dissing
it and going, oh, you know, you're just not fit.
I would hear maybe when I was in my forties,
(33:04):
you know, women going oh my god, I've put all
this weight in menopause, and I used to just think, rubbish,
It's all about input output, you just you know. And
then all of a sudden, I was in menopause, it
plunged sizing, and I'm like, how is this weight coming on?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Like?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
How can I not control it? So I thought, okay,
that is obviously part of it in metabolism slows down
or whatever. So I can either accept it or I
can try and just push that little bit harder, you know.
So I yeah, I just kind of kept exercising and
trying to you know, eat well. And that's kind of
helped me deal with it because I knew I was
(33:39):
doing the best that I could, or ye wallow the
other way and just so I feel like shit, So
I'm going to eat shep, but I'm going to drink
to kind of come in and comfort myself, which we
all did a lot of in Covid Banana bread.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Who cooked banana bread? Everyone cooked banana bread. With your diet,
what do you do specifically with your diet? Do you
like mostly organic or what do you find?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I like healthy food, I don't go organic. I like
fresh juices. I love fruit bowls and things like that.
But with you know, Muz and still having a son
at home, we still cook pretty much. You kind of
you meat and three veggies, but we're both you know,
I've gotten back into enjoying a bit more cooking and
sharing it, so Murray will do it. The thing that
helped me manage the wait a little bit better, which
(34:25):
I only kind of got onto I don't know, maybe
in the last twelve months, is the intermittent fasting. Do
you say that word intermitting fasting? And that is quite
incredible in that, you know, people talk about that and
I just go, oh my god, you're starving yourself, and
how ridiculous. You know the way that it really can
(34:46):
give you mental clarity, and they're giving yourself that break
from food, and so that has helped me. That has
helped me.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Tell me about the drums. You've taken up drums.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I have, Oh, thanks for asking. So during COVID, where
my middle son was also living at home and he's
a musician. I'm not musical at all, and he is
in a couple of bands, plays guitar, teaches guitar, and
had the drums there and so he played that. He'd
taught himself that, and so there are a few times
during COVID where you know, he go because you had
(35:17):
nothing to do in the time, Like the boys taught
me how to escape on COVID as well. But if
I come down, mum and I'll teach you a couple
of things and I'll play some chords on the guitar,
and you know. So we started doing that and I
enjoyed it, and so then I thought, oh, I'm going
to teach myself dreams by Fleetwood Mac Like of course
I wouldn't. So I found an online teacher who was
teaching that, and yeah, so you know, I would do
(35:39):
a little bit of that, and so I really enjoyed it.
But then you know, got past COVID, stopped doing that complately,
never went back to it. The end of last year,
I was up in Melbourne. I was driving home you
have you know, it's an hour and a half time
with my own thoughts, and I was thinking, I need
a hobby, I need to do something. What can I do?
I think maybe Fleetwood Mack came on the radio. I
(35:59):
thought I can do. I think go back and do
the drum. And then my negative ego, just when are
you kidding? You're way too old to do that. No,
on my positive side, when Nikki, you could be ninety
and do it if you want. Absolutely. My son had
a friend who's an awesome drummer, and he gave me
a few lessons, but then it was hard to lock in.
I needed it to be all once a week, so
I have a reason, you have a lesson, committed to it. Yeah,
(36:21):
And so he put me onto this other guy who
is teaching me now, and I love the way he
teaches and it's really really fun and I'm enjoying it.
And it's hard, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I bet you know you're right hand the coordination all
of that and your stuff, and it's a workout. I suspect.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
It can be. Yeah. So yeah, so I've just got
all these things I'm learning. At one point I want
to get a couple of you know, good songs and
just be able to rock out to it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Well, you're certainly a woman who goes by the beat
of your own drum. Certainly say that. Thank you, Nikki,
It's been a delight.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
How awesome is Key Buckley? Down to earth warm and
refreshingly natural. So honored to have had her in the
iHeart Studio. I hope you enjoyed it as much as
I did. As I round out the first series of
Rage Against the Menopause, my next guest describes herself as
an ossie author, travel writer, TV presenter, deranged mum of two,
(37:19):
and frazzled feminist. Don't miss the effervescent Kathy Lett, who
talks about her latest novel, husband Replacement Therapy, among other things.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I'm Petrina Jones.
Going by the beat of her own drum is aptly
the title of this installment of Rage Against the Menopause.
I'm Patrina Jones and I met Nicki Buckley through a
mutual friend, fashion designer Lisa Barron. The model and TV
presenter synonymous with shows like Sale of the Century and
Perfect Match in the nineties and more recently Postcards, was
(00:23):
keen to share her lived experience on menopause. Reeling from
the early death of her mother from ovarian cancer. Nicki
has always been vigilant about her health and fitness, and
a timely guest for episode eight, coinciding with Gene Hale's
Women's Health Week. Well, my next guest is an Ossie
(00:45):
TV presenter and model.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Very well known.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
She became known in the nineties as co host to
Greg Evans on The Blind. Daish also knew it as
Perfect Match before that, and of course who could forget this.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Lumble century and now here is Glen rep Thank you
very much. Be Hi everyone, Hello, walk in the file
that could be when you were to Thursday Night. I'm
very exciting night Tray carry out the champions. Before we
talked to him, though, please give a very warm welcome
to Nicky Buckley, Hey Nikki, how are you all?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Love?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Hearing that that takes me back to being in secondary
school and mum cooking meat and three vegs for dinner. No, no, no,
but you've been doing it for a decade time.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Like, just hearing that is just fond fond fond, fond
fond memories.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Tell me about Sale of the Century? How did it
come about?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I mean I started out my I guess, my
career in that area as a model. Yeah, and then
Murray when I was overseas, Murray got a job modeling
on Sale of the Century. Your husband, yes, And so
I remember coming back from overseas and him saying, come
and have lunch with me in Channel nine. So I
went in and got spotted by I guess one of
(02:01):
the producers from Grundy's, and so I started, I auditioned
and started as a model on the show for a
long time, which was just fabulous. And actually had a
dinner on Sunday with some of the girlfriends that I
used to work with and you know, and like you know,
nearly forty years still catching Yeah, So we had great,
great time, great friendship. Got to work with Mars on
(02:23):
the show, and from that I got to audition when
they were re auditioning for Blind Day, Perfect Match. Grundies
ran both shows, so they invited all of us models
to audition for the show, and I got the gig
on Blind Day Perfect Match with Greg Evans. So I
left the modeling, went and did that for only six
(02:46):
months my time there, I you know, realistically kind of
got the sack after six months because I wouldn't you know,
I was pretty straight, and so you know, they wanted
someone a little bit more giggly and flirty, and I
was quite you know, they'd say before i'd go out
it tonight. Now, remember when you go out and I
just be you know, say this joke to you know,
to Greg and do a little bit of this, and
I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd go out and
(03:07):
I'd be so straight, so, you know, fair enough. So
then I realized after doing that that I really enjoyed
the job, and so I went and studied acting and
took voice lessons just to kind of get me over
that fear of making a fool of myself. And that's
where I was straight. Yeah, And so then at a
certain point then I went back to modeling on Sale
(03:30):
and a lot of my friends, you know, and people
said to me, why are you going back to modeling,
because you're now a presenter, you know, why are you
going back? And I'm like, well, because it's a good job.
I've got a mortgage and I enjoy the work. But
what I did along the way was I started studying acting,
which I loved, and then the opportunity came up to
audition for the role actually for the weather over, the
(03:52):
filling in for Rob Jel and so I auditioned for that,
and because of my confidence I built up with the acting.
I guess I got that role. And then we were
asked to audition for the co host on Sale with Glenn,
and I guess all of that kind of fell into place.
I felt really when I was asked to audition for that,
I was really confident because I'd done my acting. I
(04:13):
just felt really comfortable. Yep. So I didn't feel like, oh,
I've got to get this, and just like had fun
and got the job. So you were yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I loved watching you you always now that I know you,
I love that what I thought you would be you
really are. You're such a warm, down to earth natural person.
But you're also very I think why you were an
idol to me is because I could see a strong
woman on the screen and you're saying that you wouldn't
sort of fit into that cookie cutter role of perhaps
(04:44):
maybe I'm wrong, correct me being kind of the ditsy blonde.
I love that about you, and I think you were
such a role model to girls in their late teens
that I was. One other time that I really admired
you is when you were pregnant and I'm not sure
if it was with your first son, and you copped
a lot of crap about what was it just wearing
(05:07):
a maternity dress on the show.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So I was, yeah, that was on Sale of the
Century and that that is like twenty seven years ago.
Now this is how old Cooper is, So that's just
so bizarre. But at the time of doing Sale, it
was a glamorous role, and you know, I was happy
with that. I was a model and I enjoyed getting
dressed up and you know, made up and all of
that kind of thing. So we used to film five
(05:30):
shows in one day, the week show, and you know,
every night you had a different you know, dress, and
it was a glamorous you know, dress. So when I
found out that I was pregnant, it was during our
summer break. I once again, you know, telling my girlfriends,
and they actually said to me, so, what's going to
happen with your job? Will you continue working? I said yeah?
And they said, well, what will they do like build
(05:51):
a podium for you to stand behind or something. My
girlfriends and I said, what do you mean? They said,
you know, see, you're not showing your tummy.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I said, oh no, and this is the late nineties,
we might point now, yeah, like not nineteen twenty.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So he's ninety seven he was, you know wow. So anyway,
I just said, no, I'll just keep working. And so
what happened was there was no nice evening where it
was caftan neck. To me, that was what was ya?
No choices? What's like a sheet? Yea and no choices.
So we just kind of went, oh, well, we'll just
(06:23):
keep getting a bigger size in a stretchy, nice evening dress.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So that's what I and that's the point. No one
wore type fitting Matt clothing.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It was all sailor collars and stupid ties and big,
billowy dresses like you'd take off in a gust of wind.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And so Lisa Baron, who you know lovely. She is
an Australian you know, iconic designer, and I always she
always dressed me. She dressed me on on blind dates,
dressed me on sale and I used to be her
you know, she calls it, you know, her muse for
her fashion brades. And they used to have these strained
designer collection parades once a year and each designer would
have you know, a celebrity or someone walk for them,
(06:59):
and they'd bring out international models from overseas. And this
particular year, Lisa and I had done the last couple
and Lisa said, I'd love you to walk for me again.
I said, oh, Lisa, I can't. I'm five months pregnant.
And she goes, yeah, I know. And I said, well,
you know, I won't be offended because you know, I
can't really do it. She goes, why not and I said, oh, well,
you know. She goes, no, I've got this idea. I've
got this idea. And she created this dress which was
(07:19):
a black I remember it very well, sleeve hug the
figure hugging with a heart cut out over the belly,
and she goes, I want to celebrate your you know,
your pregnancy and womanhood. And I'm like, okay, cool, and
so I bore that down the catwalk.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
It was groundbreaking. Yeah, it was ground and I remember
it made the news. It was on the nightly news.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
It was yeah, it was. It became very controversial. It
like we were trying to make some kind of stance,
which I guess in a way we were just going
and going, why can't I steal you? Embracing it, But
it cused a massive stir where, you know, a current
affair round a story on it. All the radio stations
and stories. Magazines ran stories, the newspaper had polls. Should
(08:04):
I be allowed to you know, be seen showing the belly,
you know, and everything that grew with it, you know,
the bust and everything. And I continue to work right
up until a week before and I look back at
some of the footage now of me jumping around that
you know turntable, wobbling, wobbling around, waddling, and just like
(08:26):
I look and go, oh my god, I was huge.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
No, what a beautiful memory to capture. You've got that now,
and your son's got that and then future grandchildren. I
think it was amazing and I think, well, Lisa's a
trailblazer as well. You know, I think I think it
was great that brings to the point of here we are,
all these years, since the late nineties talking menopause. Yes,
(08:49):
you're a trailblazer.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
That happened.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I know when did that happen? And I, you know,
as someone in the limelight, as you are talking about menopause,
I want to play some audio Sophie Duchess of Wessex.
She is also really vocal in this space.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I love this.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
We all talk about having babies, but nobody talks about
the parents.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Nobody talks about the menopause. Why not.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
It's something that happens to us twelve times, certainly pair
is twelve times a year. It's something that's incredibly normal.
But it's something that is very hidden, and I think
it's time to say enough.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
What is the shame? Why haven't we spoken menopause?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well? I think that it is coming out from under
the covers at the moment, which is great. But yeah,
I don't know. I guess you know from our mums
and I lost my mum twenty years ago, so I
can never talk to her about it. But I just
know that, you know, people were seen to be a
bit crazy and a bit nutty, and you know, perhaps
worried about judgment like with the pregnant. Yes, yeah, like
(09:51):
hide it. Yeah, And it is interesting, you know, way
past periods and things like that. But growing up as
yeah girl, you know, it was like never kind of
spoken of out, I guess, And it is a bit
more now, which is kind of nice. But it's yeah,
like having myself now, I would say, I'd say I'm
five years into menopause. So are you post metopausal? Well? No,
(10:15):
I still well, you know, we could discuss in a
sect just you know, having had my recent operation, but like,
how do you know exactly where you are? I know,
I'm still a frustrating thing. Yes, still still a little
bit in it because I still get a little bit
of the you know, the hot flushes, but nowhere near
what I endured.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Right, shall see? Five five years down the train, five
years down the safe to say, how how was your experience?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Was it harrowing? Yeah? It was, really it was. And
I'm the kind of person that doesn't you know, wallow
in that or you know, I put the best face forward.
So when I knew I was coming on to discuss
this with you. I wanted to kind of have a
bit of a think back, because you forget it's like childbirth.
You forget how freck and painful that is, and you do,
(11:01):
but I do know it, you know, it was kind
of five years of I guess the worst of it
for me was part of it was the lack of sleep.
And I recall a time where I was trying to
work out exactly what was happening to me during the
night so I could tell my doctor, and so I
(11:23):
was had. I was documenting it quite an organized first
year I had it. I had a book next to
my bed, and every time I woke up in a dripping, wet,
you know, mess, but also that horrific panic attack and
anxiety that comes with it, or came with it for me,
I wrote down the time and it was like every
(11:43):
hour or hour and a half. So once that happens,
it takes you quite a while to get back to succeed,
and then then I'd go, seriously, has it really been
an hour? And so yeah, So the lack of sleep
from that was horrific, Like you wake up the next
morning and you feel nauseous and you feel sick and
like you've slept at all. No, you know you haven't. No,
(12:05):
So yeah, that part of it, I guess I remember.
And then just having to get through your day feeling
like that is hard.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Did you still have kids at school at that stage,
so you still had that routine of other people relying
on you heavily.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Not too bad in that too, I'd say the middle
of it for me was during COVID. But the blessing
of that was that I could go so in the
morning up, you know, and I could go, you know what,
I can't cope till I've gone back and had a
couple of hours sleep, So I could go back and
sleep till eleven o'clock, could and get those few hours
(12:43):
that then made you feel normal. And my husband was
very supportive with that, and he just knew, like, I'm
just better and we're all better off being a bit
quiet and letting mum get a couple of extra hours
sleep and she'll be happy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But I mean, you've got one of those beautiful, beautiful
marriages where you've been together.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
How long have you been together? Now? It's quite scary. Yeah.
So it's like we met when I was sixteen and
I'm fifty eight, So it's amazing A long time so
ying and Yang.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So he could read the room. How important was he
in supporting you through that period?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I said to him last night when I was
coming in here, like, what's your memory of it? Just
you know what from your point of view, as you know,
being a husband kind of thing. And he said, he
said that he kind of put it back in a
nice one and me, he said that I was amazing
at how I dealt with it. And so we talked
all the way through it because I was jealous of
(13:36):
my girlfriends doing HRT, and I guess if we move
on to that kind of part of it. Whereas I,
having having had lost my mother to avarian cancer, I
was under what I now call the false belief that
if you took HRT you would increase your chances of
cancer avarian or breast. That was the information that we
(13:59):
were and so I was anti anti anti. So all
my girlfriends were going on HRT and getting through everything fine,
and so I was jealous. And I used to say
to Murray, you know, I just I wish I could,
but I know I can't. I just you know, felt
ripped off. I just yeah, and he said yeah. But
and how I remember him saying to me, because the
difference is, Nick, you can compartmentalize it, so you know
you're not going crazy. You know that what is happening
(14:23):
to you is you know the symptoms of menopause, So
you know the anxiety that you feel, the panic attacks
you feel, you know you're not going nuts. It's menopause.
And you can compartmentalize it and go, this is shit,
but I know what it is, so I can put
it in that box and move on and you know,
wait for the glory days when it's all what a
(14:43):
great husband.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
So the panic attacks for you were really like had
you had a history of panic attacks?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
No? No, And it wasn't like some people say, like
I had a panic attack and I was in the
supermarket and I just had to get out to me,
it was it was the feeling that came with the
hot flush or you know the f ashes that some
people call them. So it was like, I liken it too.
If you're you know, if you're ever in a car
and you have to slam on the brakes because you're
just going to an avoid an accident, and that that
(15:11):
a dream comes through, it feels like it hurts. It's
like you feel that. So, you know, you would often
at night and I would have that panic, panic, panic,
panic feeling, and I'd have to say to my head,
it's okay, it's all right, like you're just having just
before the flush comes, and what can I hear?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
What can I smell? And ground yourself? A bit poor thing?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
That's awful, it is, it was, But yeah, all good? Now?
So what did help you? So? I tried everything, you know,
I googled everything, tried everything organic natural that I could.
I remember going to I had a wonderful and have
a wonderful doctor who is a GP and also a
natural path and and I was thinking about it, like
(15:54):
I think that a lot of doctors that you spoke
to once you just straight away said no, I'm not
going down HRT. They didn't necessarily say to me why
because do you realize that there's you know, positive things
frozen cons And they just took me as going not
going there. And so I would try and work with that.
So I had all kinds of organic motion potions and
(16:14):
things you know, concocted that I tried, you know, and
I would try it for months and foul tasting years,
and I would go, Okay, you got to have this,
and then three hours out of lad you know, we'd
do it all. Nothing worked, And so the only way
I got through it in the end was to have
some sleeping pills that you know, steadfastly would not take
(16:35):
every night, but if I knew I had a big
day the next day, if I had because I was working,
if I had a job the next day, then I
would take a sleeping pill. And even though you might
wake up with the flush, you could kind of you
doped a bit, just you know, to go get back to.
That's was how I could get through it kind of thing.
And you know, allow myself maybe one or two nights
a week to have that, and that's what helped.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
For me, you know what you mean when you were
talking about potions. When we were trying to get pregnant,
we went down Chinese medicine because we tried five years
to get Audrey multiple miscarriages and within do polycystic.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
And I went to see this.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Guy and he would boil up each individual woman's brew
and mine and I'm not kidding you it actually had
chook pooh in it. But he would obviously either way
that he cultivated or boiled it or whatever the.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Heck he did with it, it worked.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
In the end, I still believe it was him, that
goddess to the point of a live birth. But you'd
stand on your head for a month if it meant
relief for anything. And I think that's the point is,
you know, HRT has had a bad rap, but it's
something that you have to determine yourself, with all your
team of specialists to see what's best for you, and
(17:50):
what's right for you may not be right for someone else.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, when you said that about the Chinese medicine, that's
another thing that I tried as well. So I had
Chinese medicine and I had you know, the dry needling, yes,
and you and stuff. Yeah, yeah, i'd give that a
go for a few months ago. And I hated that.
I hated, Oh did you You didn't like the no
and it didn't you know. In the end, I kind
of thought, yeah, maybe it's working, Maybe it's work, and
(18:14):
they're like, oh no, it's not. So there was another thing,
but yeah, look that I mean the HRT, Like I said,
I had been of the belief. Everything I read, everything
I was told was that if you took HRT, if
you had an occurrence of you know, breast cancer or
a bearing cancer in your family, then it would increase
(18:34):
your chances of getting that. So that that was what
rang true in my.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Ear is a bit trauma tised from losing your mum
to that trauma disease.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
But of course you would naturally, and I knew that
from my memory Mum was on HRT as well, So
I'm like, Okay, well that happened for her, so that
will happen for It's not going to happen for me. Yes, yes,
And so that's why I steered clear of it. And
because we are having discussions, we are talking with our
friends and that now obviously, one of my girlfriends said,
flicked me a podcast which I flicked to you, which
(19:06):
was an incredible insight for me into the fact that
that whole period of hearing that HRT increases your chances
of cancer was a misrepresentation of a study that was done.
And the study was done in two thousand and two
by the Women's Health Initiative in the USA, and they
(19:27):
did this massive billion dollar study and you know what
they did was, you know, they found all these things.
And they instead of releasing that study as you normally
would to the medical fraternity and the medical people would
you know, dissect it and all out what they want
and go, yeah, that's true. Now I haven't seen that.
They released their study to the media without going through
(19:51):
those proper channel, proper channel. So they had a press
release and put this out and so then as you know,
the press do, they take whatever bits they want. And
the headline in the New York Times was HRT increases
the chance of breast cancer big you know, bold prints.
Same in England on the front cover of the papers.
They're so alarmist, so alarmist because as they dug deeper,
(20:15):
it didn't at all. Wasn't the case that has stuck.
That's two thousand and two, and you know, the FDA
put a black box on it, you know, stating that
in anything that's got you know, estrogen in it, can
you know, lead to an increase in cancer. So and
then they, you know, once they've gone back and checked
it all, it was all a misrepresentation. They misquoted themselves,
(20:37):
and it's the opposite, you know. So yeah, you know
it's important for me, having learned that to just get
I guess that message out to just just check everything
out and see, you know, because you know, it can
be such a horrible, horrible time. You know, marriages can
end over you know, how we change and maybe and
(21:01):
I just think I most definitely would have taken hit
if I knew that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Then to get what you know now.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, yeah, I would have been a much happier person
to be around. And I also remember, like you know,
I probably didn't ask Murray this you listen to this
and wanted to not, you know, he'll go. Yeah. I
kind of thought at the time, I was we're having
problems as well, like everyone does in that time. But
I used to think, no, I'm not crabby with my husband.
(21:29):
No I'm not crappy with my menopause. No, not at all.
I'm just having the hot flushes. And yeah, but it
hasn't made me a snooty, you know, bitchy, snappy person
at all.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Zero two, one hundred and ten point.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Three of a second.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
But in fact it probably it's horrible and I'm setting
other episodes. You know, there'll be days where the rage
and it's usually for me when the hot flush is
a bad it's sort of like hand in hand with
the rage, and I'll just fly off the handle over
something ridiculous, and then then you get that guilt and
you think, oh, that was really out of portion, Like
(22:01):
even the volume of my voice was out of proportion.
So my poor husband will say, you know what, I'm
going to go for a coffee or I'm going to
go and have a walk and just give.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You some time over all off.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
But it's horrible because you can't control. It's a bit
like PMT in that way, and that you just it's
kind of like a it's a real out of body experience.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
And to me it would be an effect of the
night before where yes, you hadn't slept, had not slept,
you know, and you've got to function through the day,
so you're just.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
On edge and running on adrenaline most of the time
on adrenaline.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, and you can't you just can't deal with anything.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Did you find being in the spotlight? Was that harder
for you? Did that put more pressure on you? Do
you think?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Or No? I don't think so. I it was obviously
at a time when you know, we're talking the last
five years, so not the busiest time of my life.
But I still was working and I do recall, and
I was always open with you know, Mars, my boys.
You know, I've just got sons, so I want them
to kind of understand things. They haven't got sisters to
see things. And I remember, you know, a couple of
(23:08):
times at work where I was filming, like presenting roles
and being being filmed interviewing someone and saying, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry,
We've got to stop, you know, and I go, I'm sorry,
I'm just having a whole flush. I've got to step outside.
And I remember the cameraman saying, oh, yeah, my wife's
(23:29):
you know, and just so it was just like, I
can't do anything. I'm actually interviewing someone and I'm overwhelmed,
overwhelmed and dripping the back of my neck is you know,
dripping wet. And I could try and fluff through it.
Can we just stop, because I'm just going to go
out and fand myself and get a bit of you know,
fresh air and talk about it.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And yeah, that's great, And it was fine. And it's
great too that the Cabraman could support you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
That's the thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
I had image and crump On in a previous episode.
I'm not sure if you saw her piece on the APS.
She's an editor at the University of Melbourne and she
was doing an economics report on the ABC and just
totally lost her place, as we all do at times,
and said, I'm sorry, but I'm having a really bad
hot flush and this is on National Breakfast TV. And
(24:18):
I thought, you know what it's really I think it's
given me permission to be more open. I know it
seems like I'm opening doing a podcast on the topic,
but never thought that I could be that open being
in the media, and because I think there is a
thing about you don't want to be seen as weak
and incompetent in the workplace by being honest, but you
(24:43):
do need to lean into all the negatives and the
positives like not you know, I just think it's part.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Of being human percent and it helps other people know
that they're not yeah nuts, and it helps the other
people in the workplace realize that, you know, fifty percent
of the population are going through this, so it's normal.
You know, it's not something to be shamed into and
how normal to go sorry of Don'm just having a
hot flush or you know, you get fold brain, folg,
(25:10):
you go blank on things. Hence you know, I, you know,
like to take notes on things because you can be foggy.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah all the time. Can we talk about your recent
procedure there you had what led to that?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
So the recent procedure was a hysterectomy, a full hysterectomy,
which means removal you know, of the ovaries, you know,
the uterex uterfus and the cervix. So when Mum, it'll
be twenty years ago this year when Mum passed away
from a varian cancer. So I have been an ambassador
for avarian cancer for all this time, and my main
(25:49):
reason for being ambassador is to present the signs and
symptoms of avarian cancer because it's still the silent killer.
There is no really detection test, you know, like you
can have for a mammogram and see a lump. So
ringing in my ears always is my mum at one
of my boys christenings and just kind of standing you know,
(26:12):
around next to me going, oh my god, look at me.
I look like I'm five months pregnant. Look at me.
And I remember thinking, because you know, I probably realistically
a healthier person than mum. Mum you know, smoked a
lot and drank a lot and I would love just
a pie or a cheese toasting. You know. I was
way more organic than that, and so he and never exercised,
and I was so hearing her say that. I remember
(26:33):
in my head just thinking, Mommy's just not looking after yourself,
you know, because she said, yeah, look at me, I
look like i'm and I'm thinking, yeah, that's because you
don't need many clubs, too many cars, you know. Anyway,
it turned out that it was, you know, overarian cancer.
So I just remember back then, for whatever reason, feeling
for quite a while that mum had it. And it
(26:53):
was so far out of the blue, you know, just
all of a sudden. I had never lost anyone like that,
so was Nick. So it was only like sixty five,
sixty six, not that old, no, And so I just thought, well, yeah,
I can get it too, because you know, so I
remember way back then going and seeing a guy on
ecologist about having it or you know, let's just take
(27:14):
it all out because then I can't get it. And
she's like, well, let's just wait awhile, like it's very early,
you know, I went obviously when after I decided I
wasn't having any more children. But you know, I can
throw you into early menopause and that can be quite
horrific and everything. So I just did you know, played
the waiting game of twenty years of having you know,
my ultra sounds and blood tests done every year to
hopefully detect anything.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So do you carry a gene? Is there a gene that?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well? I never see. I was always told test for
the bracker gene. Yeah, but I was also told that
which stuck in my head and maybe it might have changed.
But you needed some of your mum's DNA to tests,
so like when you had heard from a brush all this,
which I didn't. So I never never went down that way.
And so for the for the some I'm getting a
(27:59):
little bit of a flush now strip off. I forgot
to bring my fan no, so I so now I've.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Lost my You was testing with the genes, so you
were testing regularly genes.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But testing with it a larger sound and blood tests
and never tested whether I had the gene or not.
And was kind of happy enough going along there. And
then last December, just before December, I remember all of
a sudden, I went to my doctor said, oh, I've
got because I knew the signs and symptoms you know,
and I'm having like, you know, I've got lower abdomen
(28:36):
pains kind of like period pains, you know, you know,
way past having a period, and so I just it's
alarm bell to me, and also, you know, feeling a
bit bloated. So she said, okay, well, let'sus go and
do some tests other than you normal tests that you have.
And then that came back with some polyps on the
(28:56):
ovaries and the thickening of the uterus and some fibroids.
So to me, that's like, whoa, all that stuff's happened
since my last test. Yeah right, So I went and
had them tested. That all came back fine, But I
said to my gynecologist, Okay, that's it for me. That's
my warning sign. So having having what I doing what
I did was not because I had cancer or you know,
(29:19):
everything came back clear. It was purely my choice for prevention. Yep.
And yeah, I feel good about that.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, well that's good, and I'm glad that you had
a specialist that supported what you wanted to do as well.
It's good to have a good relationship with your doctor
to touch in and not be scared to go, because God,
prevention is so much better than cure.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah. Yeah, And I remember saying to her once we
did the test and it came back that everything was fine,
you know, like the thickening of the uterus can happen.
It was getting you know, fibroads are fine, and the
polyps were benign or whatever. I said, so what do
you think, like, what are your thoughts? And she said, well,
if you you know, I didn't have any history or reason,
(30:07):
I would say, look, if you know, it's up to
you if you want you But she said, having your
history and having your reasons, I think you are fully
going down the right position, you know, which is all
I needed to hear for her. Yep, you know. And
then I kind of went I didn't look into it
too much, you know, I just kind of went, Okay,
I made up my mind. I made up my mind
that's what I'm doing. And if there had been a
(30:30):
few problems, I would have gone to do it straight away.
There wasn't, so I went, okay, I'll do it in
winter because that's probably, you know, a better time, And
I just didn't investigate too much more than that. It
wasn't ntil I've had it done. I started googling everything,
going right, Okay, so that's all gone, and that's all
what is left. What happened in there? You know, well
with it too, Like everyone said to me, oh my god,
it's a it's a really long recovery. Yes weeks and
(30:53):
I was kind of like, after, you know, a few days,
I'm thinking I'll get through this, okay. You know, I
didn't quite understand how the severity, yeah, and how you
have to really just take the time and not do
much at all, which is rather hard for me.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, I'm the same. I had a cesarean section when
I had Audrey and I was home and I'm not
proud to say, but vacuuming like a couple of weeks
later and hanging washing out when I shouldn't, yes, I should,
like you know, yeah, but this is what we do.
We like we're our own worst had.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I started baking bread and I posted something and my
girlfriend who's had also had a hystoryctim me just I
hope Murray lifted that pot into it out of the oven,
because you know, you're not allowed to lift anything.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
We touched on golf before. I know you're an avid golf.
What is your handicap?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I haven't played for six weeks, but I'm from memory
it was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And do you play down the surf coast?
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah. So one of my girlfriends that I play
with message me is that when you're coming back. Yeah,
it's really I got back into it during COVID. My
husband's a great golfer. He really enjoys it. So it's
a great thing that you can do, you know, together
and do it with your girlfriends, or you can do
it with mixed couples. And it's yeah, great exercise obviously,
(32:09):
And I am a competitive person, so I like, you know,
whether you're competitive with yourself or competitive with other people.
You know, it's got that bit to it too.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Did that help your mindset going through menopause doing all
those things that brought you joy?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Look for me, Actually it's a good good point. So
dealing with the menopause symptoms which were horrific, knowing that
I wasn't doing HRT, I did everything else that I
could to keep myself fit and well and healthy. So
you know, I'm not an angel. And you know, I
like a pig out, I love chocolate, I you know,
(32:44):
like to have a drink. But I also you know,
I struggled the same with people with weight gain. And
I recall I recall before I ever was in that stage,
a bit like my mum saying look at me, I
look like I'm six months pregnant, and me just dissing
it and going, oh, you know, you're just not fit.
I would hear maybe when I was in my forties,
(33:04):
you know, women going oh my god, I've put all
this weight in menopause, and I used to just think, rubbish,
It's all about input output, you just you know. And
then all of a sudden, I was in menopause, it
plunged sizing, and I'm like, how is this weight coming on?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Like?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
How can I not control it? So I thought, okay,
that is obviously part of it in metabolism slows down
or whatever. So I can either accept it or I
can try and just push that little bit harder, you know.
So I yeah, I just kind of kept exercising and
trying to you know, eat well. And that's kind of
helped me deal with it because I knew I was
(33:39):
doing the best that I could, or ye wallow the
other way and just so I feel like shit, So
I'm going to eat shep, but I'm going to drink
to kind of come in and comfort myself, which we
all did a lot of in Covid Banana bread.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Who cooked banana bread? Everyone cooked banana bread. With your diet,
what do you do specifically with your diet? Do you
like mostly organic or what do you find?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I like healthy food, I don't go organic. I like
fresh juices. I love fruit bowls and things like that.
But with you know, Muz and still having a son
at home, we still cook pretty much. You kind of
you meat and three veggies, but we're both you know,
I've gotten back into enjoying a bit more cooking and
sharing it, so Murray will do it. The thing that
helped me manage the wait a little bit better, which
(34:25):
I only kind of got onto I don't know, maybe
in the last twelve months, is the intermittent fasting. Do
you say that word intermitting fasting? And that is quite
incredible in that, you know, people talk about that and
I just go, oh my god, you're starving yourself, and
how ridiculous. You know the way that it really can
(34:46):
give you mental clarity, and they're giving yourself that break
from food, and so that has helped me. That has
helped me.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Tell me about the drums. You've taken up drums.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I have, Oh, thanks for asking. So during COVID, where
my middle son was also living at home and he's
a musician. I'm not musical at all, and he is
in a couple of bands, plays guitar, teaches guitar, and
had the drums there and so he played that. He'd
taught himself that, and so there are a few times
during COVID where you know, he go because you had
(35:17):
nothing to do in the time, Like the boys taught
me how to escape on COVID as well. But if
I come down, mum and I'll teach you a couple
of things and I'll play some chords on the guitar,
and you know. So we started doing that and I
enjoyed it, and so then I thought, oh, I'm going
to teach myself dreams by Fleetwood Mac Like of course
I wouldn't. So I found an online teacher who was
teaching that, and yeah, so you know, I would do
(35:39):
a little bit of that, and so I really enjoyed it.
But then you know, got past COVID, stopped doing that complately,
never went back to it. The end of last year,
I was up in Melbourne. I was driving home you
have you know, it's an hour and a half time
with my own thoughts, and I was thinking, I need
a hobby, I need to do something. What can I do?
I think maybe Fleetwood Mack came on the radio. I
(35:59):
thought I can do. I think go back and do
the drum. And then my negative ego, just when are
you kidding? You're way too old to do that. No,
on my positive side, when Nikki, you could be ninety
and do it if you want. Absolutely. My son had
a friend who's an awesome drummer, and he gave me
a few lessons, but then it was hard to lock in.
I needed it to be all once a week, so
I have a reason, you have a lesson, committed to it. Yeah,
(36:21):
And so he put me onto this other guy who
is teaching me now, and I love the way he
teaches and it's really really fun and I'm enjoying it.
And it's hard, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I bet you know you're right hand the coordination all
of that and your stuff, and it's a workout. I suspect.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
It can be. Yeah. So yeah, so I've just got
all these things I'm learning. At one point I want
to get a couple of you know, good songs and
just be able to rock out to it.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Well, you're certainly a woman who goes by the beat
of your own drum. Certainly say that. Thank you, Nikki,
It's been a delight.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
How awesome is Key Buckley? Down to earth warm and
refreshingly natural. So honored to have had her in the
iHeart Studio. I hope you enjoyed it as much as
I did. As I round out the first series of
Rage Against the Menopause, my next guest describes herself as
an ossie author, travel writer, TV presenter, deranged mum of two,
(37:19):
and frazzled feminist. Don't miss the effervescent Kathy Lett, who
talks about her latest novel, husband Replacement Therapy, among other things.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I'm Petrina Jones.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com