July 30, 2025 • 24 mins
If only there was a Fairy Godmother of Menopause. Someone who could magically appear and banish your hot flushes! In this episode, all of Patsy’s wishes come true when she chats about a great new book by Author Shelly Horton, “I’m Your Peri-Godmother, a Happily Ever After Guide to Kicking Peri-Menopause in the Ovaries”.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, do you ever think if only there was a
fairy godmother of menopause, You know, someone who could just
wave her magic wand and make all your hot flushes disappear,
restore your sleep, and heck, while she's at it, why
not dissolve that stubborn midriff that just refuses to budge
a pery godmother. Well, bibbity bobby boo, your wish has
(00:21):
been answered. It's in the form of a new book
just out by Shelley Houghton. You've probably seen her on
your Telly and out and Proud Pery Warrior. She's written
I'm your pery Godmother. She's a member of the International
Menopause Society. I couldn't wait to chat to her about
her Happily ever After Guide to Kicking peri Menopause in
(00:42):
the Ovaries. Fluff your fairy wings and welcome Shelley to
Rage against the menopause.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Menopause, It's coming for you no matter what.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Let's build a village of support. Why is it so
damn hot in here?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Menopause is so hot right now?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I think theopause.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Women just want to feel hurt.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Rage against the menopause, Well, this is going to be
a fantastic episode of rage against the menopause, because I've
got a woman on who I have long admired commentator
Shelley Horton and now novelist Haitial.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
How are you? Oh my goodness, I'm an author. Can
you believe it?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Oh? I'm so happy for you. Congratulations on the book.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I'm your pery godmother.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I love the title, A Happily ever After Guide to
Kicking Perimenopause in the Ovaries. Yeah, I love this, and
I love you know, any any space where women can
be their real, authentic self.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I think we're very similar in that way. In Minutes,
a no.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Holds barred approach to writing the book, you say your
perimenopause experience was really, really treacherous.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
How bad was it for you?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It was so bad it nearly took my life. Like,
that's as bad as it gets.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
And the scary thing is, I'd never even heard the
word perimenopause when I went into perimenopause five years ago,
so it kind of sideswiped me, which is why I
wanted to write the book, because I feel like even
using the word menopause is for me. When I was
forty five, I thought that was gray head old ladies,
(02:26):
you know, like didn't.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I didn't think it was applying apple. It didn't apply
to me.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
So that's why I wanted to make sure that people
and women who were getting up to you know, in
their forties early forties, learned about this so that they
didn't get sideswiped. Now, I do say in the book
that I am one of the worst case scenarios. So
you know, they say twenty percent have severe, depilidating, debilitating
(02:55):
symptoms like I did.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Twenty percent just cruised through.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
I mean, yet to meet anyone who is in that
twenty percent, but the rest have, you know, at least
a few symptoms that really rocked their world. And I
think the biggest thing is I have been listening to
your podcast, and I know something similar that comes up
is women just saying I.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Just didn't feel like me. Yes, I don't feel like
me anymore.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
And that was a huge sign I just didn't feel
like myself. And I think that that's what I should
be now a trigger to go I need to investigate.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, well, I mean, you didn't just not feel yourself.
You landed in icee. You like you've you fell off
the edge. Of a cliffs like it was astronomical for
you your experience.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Yeah, so it was I think for me. My worst
two symptoms. One was the perimenopausal depression, which now that
I've researched the book, I know happens to one in
three women in perimenopause. So that is the highest time
in a woman's life for mental health issues, higher than
(04:02):
postnatal depression. This is the highest risk of suicide in
a woman's life. It's ages forty five to fifty four.
So I don't know why we don't have more education
campaigns about this and national national campaigns warning women to
keep an eye out for it. And then the second
symptom that was horrific was the heavy bleeding.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So I ended up what one.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Year, I bled for forty two out of fifty two weeks.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Now can you.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Even imagine how exhausted and depleted I felt. And it
was because of that that I decided to get the ablation,
which is a fifteen minute procedure and it should be
very very simple, but of course nothing simple with me.
And during the surgery, the anethetist, let's just say, I
(04:57):
wouldn't put my trust in them again, my lung collapse,
and so I ended up in the ICU. So I
woke up with a chipped tooth, with my throat absolutely shredded,
with four canulas in my arms, and my ribs feeling
like they'd been broken. And that was all because I
just didn't have the best people looking after me when
(05:19):
I should have been putting myself first. And you know
the thing that makes me, I guess it is shame,
but I'm trying to not call it shame. But I
was such a people pleaser that when I woke up
in the ICU, I was going, I'm so sorry. I
shouldn't you know, I'm actually not that sick. You could
probably put me in a general ward. There's probably people
(05:39):
much that need this a lot more than I do.
And I'm just like, isn't that such a female thing
to do and make jokes of it, when really I
should have been going, excuse me, what just happened?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Because I was in your care and this should not
have happened.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh, your poor thing, that's awful, awful, hunt. I love
the you dedicated the book to your mum. Yeah, and
I loved this. Who deserve better?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
During her perry and menopause? That actually gives me chills.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I read that because I know my mum had a
horrid time as well. She's in her eighties now, and
I see the podcast as I have a fourteen year
old daughter. I would hate to think that when Audrey
gets to that point down the track, that she is
faced with the same wall of silence that our generation has.
And I think you're like minded in that it's up
to our generation to turn the tide now that it's different. Now,
(06:34):
like a line in the sand, this is it. We're
gonna talk about it. It's gonna get dirty, it's gonna
get ugly.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Yeah, but that's okay, And that's okay. It needs to
get dirty and ugly. And you know what, this is
the biggest gift you could ever give Audrey and all
of her friends, because I feel like younger generations are
going to benefit because gen X women just went.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We ain't putting up with this anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Now, I say in my book that when I first
had such severe symptoms, particularly with depression, I was.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Mad at my mom for not warning me.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
But then with hindsight, I'm mad for her that she
was treated so badly that she was given no information
and to be fair, my mom's generation, my mom's seventy six.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
They don't talk about emotions like.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
You never talked about it, talk about me periods.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
I know this is so it's a massive change, and
I just feel like we are, yeah, where we might
be seen as those women who are like getting up
on a soapbox and beating a drama. And I'm fine
with that because if it helps at least one other woman,
then it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh it will.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I love love to the book and so many ah
and yes moments.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
My husband's saying, what are you doing in there? What
are you doing? But I could just relate. I was
almost high fiving you in the air, like, oh my god, Shelly.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And women don't feel her, they don't feel like they're
being her, they're being discounted by doctors. And I love
the point you make with other girls. You say I
felt let down by the Sisterhood for not talking openly
about it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I talk so much about pregnancy and conception and birth,
why not perimenopause and menopause.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
I really feel like it's the last taboo, Like it's
the last bit of secret women's business, and what we
know is secret women's business.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Holds women back.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
So I think that we need to break through that
agism and shame of you know, if I say I'm
in perimenopause, people will think I'm old and out to pasture,
or I don't want my colleagues to know that I'm
having hot flushes or think you know what they need
to know and they need to adapt rather than you do.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So I'm of that on air as well, Shelley, like
I have terrible blank brain moments. I've been on air,
can't think of a word, can't think of a word,
and so the boys have luckily rallied and we just
go on with the conversation. But initially, you know, I thought, oh,
I could never after being on air, you know, for
thirty six or whatever years, I would never.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And then I thought, well, hang on, why not.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, I think it's similar.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
I draw the analogy with mental health in the workplace.
You know, ten years ago, no one actually admitted to
having anxiety or depression, and now we've got areuokda, Now
we've got mental health first st aid offices in workplaces.
There's such education and we are just a bit behind
the times when it comes to menopause. In the workplace,
(09:41):
because I am so glad to hear that the boys
rallied and like lifted you up, because that's all they
need to do. You know, they're not You're not asking
them to be doctors. You're not asking them to do
anything more than just be your support. And it's fantastic
to know that you've got that. And that's all we
really need to get out there to the workplaces is hey,
(10:01):
if I'm having a hot flash in the middle of
a meeting, perhaps get me.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Some iced water.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
If i can't remember the name of my client and
I'm in middle of doing a pitch, can someone else
just jump in and go, hey, Shelly, you were telling
me a bit about that blah blah blah. Like it's
it's almost like just having a bit more of a
team around you. But you can't have a team if
you don't tell them no, that's right, You've got to
be brave enough to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You're at the top of your game. Still are, obviously,
but at the top of your game. When perimenopause hit,
you considered leaving work twenty five percent of women, according
to Menopause Friendly Australia. Do you can I've been there
you know, two forty five am alarms thinking, you know,
feeling like I'm ninety dragging myself out of bed. I
don't know if I can keep doing this. I think
(10:50):
we've all been there.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that women masket as well.
So I go in, You do your job, and then
you are exus exhausted when you get home because you've
been putting on the happy face. And I do regular
spots on Channel nine, and I was finding that I
could do that and I could rally. But as I
(11:11):
was driving home from Channel nine, my negative self talk
would be so loud and I would I had this
day where my negative self talk was, you know, you
just embarrass yourself on national TV. You are so stupid.
Your parents would be ashamed of you. You should quit
your job because it would be humiliating to get fired.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And I was in floods of tears.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
And I got home to my husband, Darren, and I
just said, I don't not do a Channel nine anymore.
I can't do it like I'm just I'm not good
at what I do.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yes, but like to the tenth power.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
And that was when he said to me, was a big,
big red flag, a big light bulb.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
For him of this.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
This is not Shelley, this is not how she normally is.
I mean, he's only seen the workaholic side of me.
He's just like, do more, more, more and more. And
so he sat me down, and I think it's probably
the kindest thing that he's ever said to me.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
He said, I don't think.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
There's anything wrong with you, but I think there might
be something wrong with the chemicals.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
In your brain.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
And why don't we go and see someone about it together.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Oh that's beautiful, Shelley.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Great partner?
Speaker 4 (12:29):
And the role is so pivotal.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It really is.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
They have to be your teammate in this. And again,
so many women don't talk to their husband about periods
or about perimenopause. So this is where I have found
because I speak at workplaces about perimenopause, and now with
the book, I have actually found men have been incredibly
empathetic and just and they want to know more. And
(12:53):
I don't ever blame them for not knowing, because women
aren't telling each other, so probably know exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
We expect them to be there, but they don't. Necessarily
they've got no idea if we've got no idea and
it's knowledge is power, isn't it. Yes, And so obviously
Darren's been really pivotal in your as part of your
support network as you go through it, and you navigated
it together.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Yes, yeah, he was amazing because my first GP, when
I first had quite severe symptoms, which was the depression
and the heavy bleeding, I went to just a bulk
bill GP. You know, I don't have a family doctor,
and the GP said to me, oh, you've got an
iud in, so that sort of bleeding it could be cancer.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And I was like, oh my god, that's not what.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
You want to do.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
I know, and I know that they have to rule
out the nasties, like I get that, but just the
way it was delivered. And then when I had the
internal ultrasound and it came back clear and my bloods
were normal, which we now know blood tests are absolutely
useless for perimenopaors because your hormonst change every single day.
So this GP just said to me, great news, you
(14:03):
haven't got cancer. You're just not coping with your stress
very well, and maybe you should take up a hobby.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Oh right, the guilt trip as well, Like you're already
hard and.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Already self blaming and miserable.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
So because of that, that's when I didn't see another
doctor until Darren sat me down and said, this has
been going on for a long time, it's time, and
then he came with me to the second GP appointment
and he I'm so glad he was there because as
soon as I walked in, I just started crying, and
(14:39):
he had to tell the GP what had been going
on and that it had been quite some time and
he was really worried.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And so.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
I just feel like, particularly if you've got brain foggor
like I had depression, you need someone who's kind of
your your health advocates who's there, and it could be
your girlfriend, like a friend, or a sister.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Or a partner that can help them.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Not everyone, not everyone has a partner, and not everyone
has a partner who wants to get involved with that self.
For me, I needed that, and that's when I was
put onto HRT and a nantidepressant, which I do believe
at the time I needed. I know a lot of
women just get prescribed and anti depressant and to get
(15:24):
on their merry way. My mental health was so severe
that I truly believe I needed it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
However, then it's not a quick fix.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
Like I also want women to know, like HRT is
not the golden ticket and you take it and everything's
fine again. You've got to do the work. You need
to improve your mental health slowly. You need to speak
to a professional. You need to make sure you're doing
all of that boring stuff that we've all heard of,
like going for walks and eating well and improving your sleep.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Now.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
I do all of that now because I never ever
want to get back to how I felt.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I am terrified of going back to that.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
And what ended up happening is I ended up seeing
a psychiatrist, professor j Streekalcanne, who's in Melbourne, and she
was the one who was in charge of my HRT
and she got me weaned me off the antidepressant, which.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Was quite difficult.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I also had put on ten kilos thanks to the antidepressant.
I'm like, none of the doctors seemed to care about
any of those side effects, and I was just like,
that's actually really awful for women.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Okay, I just want you to know it's really.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Freaking spread, haven't you with the middle.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
The spread is scientifically proven. It's the middle of.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Your body up over night.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's like I woke up and it was there.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Even that's what it is.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
So what's happened is it's not that you've just put
on weight, because you put on weight as you age anyway,
but as your hormones are going crazy, what's happening is
the weight is redistributing around your belly, which is also
the unhealthiest place to have it because it's not great
for your organs, it's not great for anything. So it's real.
(17:07):
And you know, I've got girlfriends who have always been
skinny minies and they wake up with a spare tire
around their belly and that is a huge shock for them.
And so I think you need to make sure that
you've got your healthcare team. And I like to talk
about them as my team. And my psychiatrist is in
(17:28):
contact with my GP. They're both up to date with
the latest menopause research and they work together. So my
psychiatrist was controlling the dosage of my HRT, and basically
she's the one who fixed me.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And I will all be forever grateful for that.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
But I also know that I'm in a very lucky
position that I can afford to see a psychiatrist there
are a lot of women who can't. I do suggest
in the book that you can get the Mental Health
Plan where your GP can get ten discounted appointments with
a psychologist a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
But I would just say to.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Anyone out there, it is time to invest in yourself.
If paying for a psychiatrist is a luxury, that's a luxury,
that's a really important one versus a new dress or
a new pair of shoes.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Like look after your brain.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's so poignant.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I think that is the best point of all because
you know, regardless if we've got families or not, you
always burnt shop syndrome.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You always put yourself last.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You think, oh do that tomorrow, or I really haven't
got You know, we've got elderly parents, We're caring for
everyone else's needs come before ours. And it is stopping
at a point and saying, look enough, this is enough.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Great chapters in your book as well. Tell us what
you like.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's everything, you know what I love most of all,
And I really relate to you because I pride myself.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I hope being The podcast very similar in.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That you're very real.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
It's so easy to read. You're very real. You don't
hold back.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Like you've written, most doctors are a bit shit, but
diagnosing and treating perimenopause, like, everyone can relate to your book.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It is so beautifully written. It's not medical jargon.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Although you had a beautiful collection of really highly renowned
specialists and experts in the field.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
I think that there's always a place for medical menopause books,
but I feel like they were missing the mark in
that they're quite dense, and so I worked really hard
on making sure I had all of the science in there,
and everything in the book is evidence based. My publisher
actually paid an independent GP to go through and assess
(19:52):
it completely to make sure I wasn't making any claims
that were you know, I couldn't be backed up. So
I feel very confident with the the evidence. And as
you said, yeah, I've got doctor Mary Clare Haver from America.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Oh my god, the fangirling I did when I interviewed her.
I was embarrassed for myself. She's amazing.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Doctor Louise Newson from the UK, like, these are world
little experts and they are just incredible humans and so
kind and generous.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So they I said to Louise.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
I'm like, how do you feel about me writing a
book when I'm not a doctor, and she's like, please,
we need lived experience out there. And she's like, women
will relate to you because you've had a horrible time,
and they will go I had a bit of that.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I had a bit of that, And.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
By making it very conversational and a bit of swearing.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I got to love a bit of swearing.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Sometimes you just go, this is fucked, and that just
sums it up, you know. So having that in there,
I think makes it an easier read and gives people
a bit of a giggle because yes, I have some
pretty dark times that I share, but then I also
have some really funny times of you know, people sharing
stories with me and me having hot flushes on National
(21:11):
TV and and things like that.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
So I think there's it's got the light and shade.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
And then I like to end it with you know,
the menopausal zes, which that chapter is called giving zero
Fox and I love that because even on TV today
it came out that jen Z was saying that they
consider over thirty five is over the hill, and I'm like,
you know, the best thing about being nearly fifty two,
(21:38):
I just don't give a fuck about what they think.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Writing though, it is so liberating when I felt that,
I thought, you know what, I actually don't care so
much about what people think of me because I can
only be me. And that's why I love your book,
because it's just you know, I've watched you for a
long time, and this book is just like it is
an extension obviously of you, but it's Shelley in Shelley's words,
(22:05):
and it's a gift. It is a gift to women.
And I just congratulate you so so much, Shelley. I'm
so happy.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Pat.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
That means so much to me because you have been
in this space longer than I have.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
You've been, you know, a trailblazer really.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
And I admire you for doing that and being brave
and just going no, no, no. This deserves a podcast,
This deserves that we and this is.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Extra work for you. I get all of that.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And often it's helping me, probably more than.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Other people, just to yes about it.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Where can women get it?
Speaker 5 (22:39):
So the great thing is it's available in most bookstores
as of July twenty nine, and also on Audible.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
So I love to listen to books.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
That's one of my things, and particularly because my sleep
wasn't great. I like to put the EarPods in and
just have it on a twenty minute homer and that's
how I.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Get off to sleep.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
So it's available, and it's also kindled, so you know,
you've got lots of options. And I'm just so excited
that it's finally out there because I feel vulnerable. I
feel a little bit like I'm actually oh. But as
you know it because you've read it, it's pretty raw.
But I also just go, you know what, if it
(23:18):
helps even one woman, it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
But that's the only way to do it is don't
eat sugarcoat it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Tell it exactly how it is.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And that's what's making women feel heard. And once, I
tell you, once you get a copy of it, If
you're not feeling heard when you go to your GP,
or you're feeling like, god, I think I'm going crazy,
like I'm losing the plot, yeah you're not, because we
all feel the same. Please get the book and know
that you are being heard, you are being seen. And
(23:48):
I mean, look at you. I've never seen you look
so you're glowing. You look fantastic, Shelly.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
I can honestly tell you I am now feeling the
healthiest and best in probably a decade. That's a pretty
nice thing to be able to say, and I don't
think I ever would have.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think I just took my whole for granted, and.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Now I'm like, look at how I've pulled myself up
from the depths of despair. So thank you for saying
I look well, because I actually feel it, and I'm
really proud because I had to work hard to get
back to where I am.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Author Shelley Haughton, I seriously think we were besties in
a former life. Her book, I'm Your Perry Godmother is
available at all Good bookstores. I'm Petrina Jones and this
is my podcast, Rage Against the Menopause.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Rage Against the Menopause.
Hey, do you ever think if only there was a
fairy godmother of menopause, You know, someone who could just
wave her magic wand and make all your hot flushes disappear,
restore your sleep, and heck, while she's at it, why
not dissolve that stubborn midriff that just refuses to budge
a pery godmother. Well, bibbity bobby boo, your wish has
(00:21):
been answered. It's in the form of a new book
just out by Shelley Houghton. You've probably seen her on
your Telly and out and Proud Pery Warrior. She's written
I'm your pery Godmother. She's a member of the International
Menopause Society. I couldn't wait to chat to her about
her Happily ever After Guide to Kicking peri Menopause in
(00:42):
the Ovaries. Fluff your fairy wings and welcome Shelley to
Rage against the menopause.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Menopause, It's coming for you no matter what.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Let's build a village of support. Why is it so
damn hot in here?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Menopause is so hot right now?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I think theopause.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Women just want to feel hurt.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Rage against the menopause, Well, this is going to be
a fantastic episode of rage against the menopause, because I've
got a woman on who I have long admired commentator
Shelley Horton and now novelist Haitial.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
How are you? Oh my goodness, I'm an author. Can
you believe it?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Oh? I'm so happy for you. Congratulations on the book.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I'm your pery godmother.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I love the title, A Happily ever After Guide to
Kicking Perimenopause in the Ovaries. Yeah, I love this, and
I love you know, any any space where women can
be their real, authentic self.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I think we're very similar in that way. In Minutes,
a no.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Holds barred approach to writing the book, you say your
perimenopause experience was really, really treacherous.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
How bad was it for you?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It was so bad it nearly took my life. Like,
that's as bad as it gets.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
And the scary thing is, I'd never even heard the
word perimenopause when I went into perimenopause five years ago,
so it kind of sideswiped me, which is why I
wanted to write the book, because I feel like even
using the word menopause is for me. When I was
forty five, I thought that was gray head old ladies,
(02:26):
you know, like didn't.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I didn't think it was applying apple. It didn't apply
to me.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
So that's why I wanted to make sure that people
and women who were getting up to you know, in
their forties early forties, learned about this so that they
didn't get sideswiped. Now, I do say in the book
that I am one of the worst case scenarios. So
you know, they say twenty percent have severe, depilidating, debilitating
(02:55):
symptoms like I did.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Twenty percent just cruised through.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
I mean, yet to meet anyone who is in that
twenty percent, but the rest have, you know, at least
a few symptoms that really rocked their world. And I
think the biggest thing is I have been listening to
your podcast, and I know something similar that comes up
is women just saying I.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Just didn't feel like me. Yes, I don't feel like
me anymore.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
And that was a huge sign I just didn't feel
like myself. And I think that that's what I should
be now a trigger to go I need to investigate.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, well, I mean, you didn't just not feel yourself.
You landed in icee. You like you've you fell off
the edge. Of a cliffs like it was astronomical for
you your experience.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Yeah, so it was I think for me. My worst
two symptoms. One was the perimenopausal depression, which now that
I've researched the book, I know happens to one in
three women in perimenopause. So that is the highest time
in a woman's life for mental health issues, higher than
(04:02):
postnatal depression. This is the highest risk of suicide in
a woman's life. It's ages forty five to fifty four.
So I don't know why we don't have more education
campaigns about this and national national campaigns warning women to
keep an eye out for it. And then the second
symptom that was horrific was the heavy bleeding.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
So I ended up what one.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Year, I bled for forty two out of fifty two weeks.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Now can you.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Even imagine how exhausted and depleted I felt. And it
was because of that that I decided to get the ablation,
which is a fifteen minute procedure and it should be
very very simple, but of course nothing simple with me.
And during the surgery, the anethetist, let's just say, I
(04:57):
wouldn't put my trust in them again, my lung collapse,
and so I ended up in the ICU. So I
woke up with a chipped tooth, with my throat absolutely shredded,
with four canulas in my arms, and my ribs feeling
like they'd been broken. And that was all because I
just didn't have the best people looking after me when
(05:19):
I should have been putting myself first. And you know
the thing that makes me, I guess it is shame,
but I'm trying to not call it shame. But I
was such a people pleaser that when I woke up
in the ICU, I was going, I'm so sorry. I
shouldn't you know, I'm actually not that sick. You could
probably put me in a general ward. There's probably people
(05:39):
much that need this a lot more than I do.
And I'm just like, isn't that such a female thing
to do and make jokes of it, when really I
should have been going, excuse me, what just happened?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Because I was in your care and this should not
have happened.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh, your poor thing, that's awful, awful, hunt. I love
the you dedicated the book to your mum. Yeah, and
I loved this. Who deserve better?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
During her perry and menopause? That actually gives me chills.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I read that because I know my mum had a
horrid time as well. She's in her eighties now, and
I see the podcast as I have a fourteen year
old daughter. I would hate to think that when Audrey
gets to that point down the track, that she is
faced with the same wall of silence that our generation has.
And I think you're like minded in that it's up
to our generation to turn the tide now that it's different. Now,
(06:34):
like a line in the sand, this is it. We're
gonna talk about it. It's gonna get dirty, it's gonna
get ugly.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Yeah, but that's okay, And that's okay. It needs to
get dirty and ugly. And you know what, this is
the biggest gift you could ever give Audrey and all
of her friends, because I feel like younger generations are
going to benefit because gen X women just went.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
We ain't putting up with this anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Now, I say in my book that when I first
had such severe symptoms, particularly with depression, I was.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Mad at my mom for not warning me.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
But then with hindsight, I'm mad for her that she
was treated so badly that she was given no information
and to be fair, my mom's generation, my mom's seventy six.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
They don't talk about emotions like.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
You never talked about it, talk about me periods.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
I know this is so it's a massive change, and
I just feel like we are, yeah, where we might
be seen as those women who are like getting up
on a soapbox and beating a drama. And I'm fine
with that because if it helps at least one other woman,
then it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh it will.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I love love to the book and so many ah
and yes moments.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
My husband's saying, what are you doing in there? What
are you doing? But I could just relate. I was
almost high fiving you in the air, like, oh my god, Shelly.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And women don't feel her, they don't feel like they're
being her, they're being discounted by doctors. And I love
the point you make with other girls. You say I
felt let down by the Sisterhood for not talking openly
about it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I talk so much about pregnancy and conception and birth,
why not perimenopause and menopause.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
I really feel like it's the last taboo, Like it's
the last bit of secret women's business, and what we
know is secret women's business.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Holds women back.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
So I think that we need to break through that
agism and shame of you know, if I say I'm
in perimenopause, people will think I'm old and out to pasture,
or I don't want my colleagues to know that I'm
having hot flushes or think you know what they need
to know and they need to adapt rather than you do.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So I'm of that on air as well, Shelley, like
I have terrible blank brain moments. I've been on air,
can't think of a word, can't think of a word,
and so the boys have luckily rallied and we just
go on with the conversation. But initially, you know, I thought, oh,
I could never after being on air, you know, for
thirty six or whatever years, I would never.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And then I thought, well, hang on, why not.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, I think it's similar.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
I draw the analogy with mental health in the workplace.
You know, ten years ago, no one actually admitted to
having anxiety or depression, and now we've got areuokda, Now
we've got mental health first st aid offices in workplaces.
There's such education and we are just a bit behind
the times when it comes to menopause. In the workplace,
(09:41):
because I am so glad to hear that the boys
rallied and like lifted you up, because that's all they
need to do. You know, they're not You're not asking
them to be doctors. You're not asking them to do
anything more than just be your support. And it's fantastic
to know that you've got that. And that's all we
really need to get out there to the workplaces is hey,
(10:01):
if I'm having a hot flash in the middle of
a meeting, perhaps get me.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Some iced water.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
If i can't remember the name of my client and
I'm in middle of doing a pitch, can someone else
just jump in and go, hey, Shelly, you were telling
me a bit about that blah blah blah. Like it's
it's almost like just having a bit more of a
team around you. But you can't have a team if
you don't tell them no, that's right, You've got to
be brave enough to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
You're at the top of your game. Still are, obviously,
but at the top of your game. When perimenopause hit,
you considered leaving work twenty five percent of women, according
to Menopause Friendly Australia. Do you can I've been there
you know, two forty five am alarms thinking, you know,
feeling like I'm ninety dragging myself out of bed. I
don't know if I can keep doing this. I think
(10:50):
we've all been there.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that women masket as well.
So I go in, You do your job, and then
you are exus exhausted when you get home because you've
been putting on the happy face. And I do regular
spots on Channel nine, and I was finding that I
could do that and I could rally. But as I
(11:11):
was driving home from Channel nine, my negative self talk
would be so loud and I would I had this
day where my negative self talk was, you know, you
just embarrass yourself on national TV. You are so stupid.
Your parents would be ashamed of you. You should quit
your job because it would be humiliating to get fired.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And I was in floods of tears.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
And I got home to my husband, Darren, and I
just said, I don't not do a Channel nine anymore.
I can't do it like I'm just I'm not good
at what I do.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yes, but like to the tenth power.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
And that was when he said to me, was a big,
big red flag, a big light bulb.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
For him of this.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
This is not Shelley, this is not how she normally is.
I mean, he's only seen the workaholic side of me.
He's just like, do more, more, more and more. And
so he sat me down, and I think it's probably
the kindest thing that he's ever said to me.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
He said, I don't think.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
There's anything wrong with you, but I think there might
be something wrong with the chemicals.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
In your brain.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
And why don't we go and see someone about it together.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Oh that's beautiful, Shelley.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Great partner?
Speaker 4 (12:29):
And the role is so pivotal.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It really is.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
They have to be your teammate in this. And again,
so many women don't talk to their husband about periods
or about perimenopause. So this is where I have found
because I speak at workplaces about perimenopause, and now with
the book, I have actually found men have been incredibly
empathetic and just and they want to know more. And
(12:53):
I don't ever blame them for not knowing, because women
aren't telling each other, so probably know exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
We expect them to be there, but they don't. Necessarily
they've got no idea if we've got no idea and
it's knowledge is power, isn't it. Yes, And so obviously
Darren's been really pivotal in your as part of your
support network as you go through it, and you navigated
it together.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Yes, yeah, he was amazing because my first GP, when
I first had quite severe symptoms, which was the depression
and the heavy bleeding, I went to just a bulk
bill GP. You know, I don't have a family doctor,
and the GP said to me, oh, you've got an
iud in, so that sort of bleeding it could be cancer.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
And I was like, oh my god, that's not what.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
You want to do.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
I know, and I know that they have to rule
out the nasties, like I get that, but just the
way it was delivered. And then when I had the
internal ultrasound and it came back clear and my bloods
were normal, which we now know blood tests are absolutely
useless for perimenopaors because your hormonst change every single day.
So this GP just said to me, great news, you
(14:03):
haven't got cancer. You're just not coping with your stress
very well, and maybe you should take up a hobby.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Oh right, the guilt trip as well, Like you're already
hard and.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Already self blaming and miserable.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
So because of that, that's when I didn't see another
doctor until Darren sat me down and said, this has
been going on for a long time, it's time, and
then he came with me to the second GP appointment
and he I'm so glad he was there because as
soon as I walked in, I just started crying, and
(14:39):
he had to tell the GP what had been going
on and that it had been quite some time and
he was really worried.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And so.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
I just feel like, particularly if you've got brain foggor
like I had depression, you need someone who's kind of
your your health advocates who's there, and it could be
your girlfriend, like a friend, or a sister.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Or a partner that can help them.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Not everyone, not everyone has a partner, and not everyone
has a partner who wants to get involved with that self.
For me, I needed that, and that's when I was
put onto HRT and a nantidepressant, which I do believe
at the time I needed. I know a lot of
women just get prescribed and anti depressant and to get
(15:24):
on their merry way. My mental health was so severe
that I truly believe I needed it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
However, then it's not a quick fix.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
Like I also want women to know, like HRT is
not the golden ticket and you take it and everything's
fine again. You've got to do the work. You need
to improve your mental health slowly. You need to speak
to a professional. You need to make sure you're doing
all of that boring stuff that we've all heard of,
like going for walks and eating well and improving your sleep.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Now.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
I do all of that now because I never ever
want to get back to how I felt.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I am terrified of going back to that.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
And what ended up happening is I ended up seeing
a psychiatrist, professor j Streekalcanne, who's in Melbourne, and she
was the one who was in charge of my HRT
and she got me weaned me off the antidepressant, which.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Was quite difficult.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I also had put on ten kilos thanks to the antidepressant.
I'm like, none of the doctors seemed to care about
any of those side effects, and I was just like,
that's actually really awful for women.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Okay, I just want you to know it's really.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Freaking spread, haven't you with the middle.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
The spread is scientifically proven. It's the middle of.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Your body up over night.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's like I woke up and it was there.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Even that's what it is.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
So what's happened is it's not that you've just put
on weight, because you put on weight as you age anyway,
but as your hormones are going crazy, what's happening is
the weight is redistributing around your belly, which is also
the unhealthiest place to have it because it's not great
for your organs, it's not great for anything. So it's real.
(17:07):
And you know, I've got girlfriends who have always been
skinny minies and they wake up with a spare tire
around their belly and that is a huge shock for them.
And so I think you need to make sure that
you've got your healthcare team. And I like to talk
about them as my team. And my psychiatrist is in
(17:28):
contact with my GP. They're both up to date with
the latest menopause research and they work together. So my
psychiatrist was controlling the dosage of my HRT, and basically
she's the one who fixed me.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And I will all be forever grateful for that.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
But I also know that I'm in a very lucky
position that I can afford to see a psychiatrist there
are a lot of women who can't. I do suggest
in the book that you can get the Mental Health
Plan where your GP can get ten discounted appointments with
a psychologist a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
But I would just say to.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Anyone out there, it is time to invest in yourself.
If paying for a psychiatrist is a luxury, that's a luxury,
that's a really important one versus a new dress or
a new pair of shoes.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Like look after your brain.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's so poignant.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I think that is the best point of all because
you know, regardless if we've got families or not, you
always burnt shop syndrome.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You always put yourself last.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You think, oh do that tomorrow, or I really haven't
got You know, we've got elderly parents, We're caring for
everyone else's needs come before ours. And it is stopping
at a point and saying, look enough, this is enough.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Great chapters in your book as well. Tell us what
you like.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's everything, you know what I love most of all,
And I really relate to you because I pride myself.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I hope being The podcast very similar in.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
That you're very real.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
It's so easy to read. You're very real. You don't
hold back.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Like you've written, most doctors are a bit shit, but
diagnosing and treating perimenopause, like, everyone can relate to your book.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
It is so beautifully written. It's not medical jargon.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Although you had a beautiful collection of really highly renowned
specialists and experts in the field.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
I think that there's always a place for medical menopause books,
but I feel like they were missing the mark in
that they're quite dense, and so I worked really hard
on making sure I had all of the science in there,
and everything in the book is evidence based. My publisher
actually paid an independent GP to go through and assess
(19:52):
it completely to make sure I wasn't making any claims
that were you know, I couldn't be backed up. So
I feel very confident with the the evidence. And as
you said, yeah, I've got doctor Mary Clare Haver from America.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Oh my god, the fangirling I did when I interviewed her.
I was embarrassed for myself. She's amazing.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Doctor Louise Newson from the UK, like, these are world
little experts and they are just incredible humans and so
kind and generous.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So they I said to Louise.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
I'm like, how do you feel about me writing a
book when I'm not a doctor, and she's like, please,
we need lived experience out there. And she's like, women
will relate to you because you've had a horrible time,
and they will go I had a bit of that.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I had a bit of that, And.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
By making it very conversational and a bit of swearing.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I got to love a bit of swearing.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Sometimes you just go, this is fucked, and that just
sums it up, you know. So having that in there,
I think makes it an easier read and gives people
a bit of a giggle because yes, I have some
pretty dark times that I share, but then I also
have some really funny times of you know, people sharing
stories with me and me having hot flushes on National
(21:11):
TV and and things like that.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
So I think there's it's got the light and shade.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
And then I like to end it with you know,
the menopausal zes, which that chapter is called giving zero
Fox and I love that because even on TV today
it came out that jen Z was saying that they
consider over thirty five is over the hill, and I'm like,
you know, the best thing about being nearly fifty two,
(21:38):
I just don't give a fuck about what they think.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Writing though, it is so liberating when I felt that,
I thought, you know what, I actually don't care so
much about what people think of me because I can
only be me. And that's why I love your book,
because it's just you know, I've watched you for a
long time, and this book is just like it is
an extension obviously of you, but it's Shelley in Shelley's words,
(22:05):
and it's a gift. It is a gift to women.
And I just congratulate you so so much, Shelley. I'm
so happy.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Pat.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
That means so much to me because you have been
in this space longer than I have.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
You've been, you know, a trailblazer really.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
And I admire you for doing that and being brave
and just going no, no, no. This deserves a podcast,
This deserves that we and this is.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Extra work for you. I get all of that.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And often it's helping me, probably more than.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Other people, just to yes about it.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Where can women get it?
Speaker 5 (22:39):
So the great thing is it's available in most bookstores
as of July twenty nine, and also on Audible.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
So I love to listen to books.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
That's one of my things, and particularly because my sleep
wasn't great. I like to put the EarPods in and
just have it on a twenty minute homer and that's
how I.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Get off to sleep.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
So it's available, and it's also kindled, so you know,
you've got lots of options. And I'm just so excited
that it's finally out there because I feel vulnerable. I
feel a little bit like I'm actually oh. But as
you know it because you've read it, it's pretty raw.
But I also just go, you know what, if it
(23:18):
helps even one woman, it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
But that's the only way to do it is don't
eat sugarcoat it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Tell it exactly how it is.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And that's what's making women feel heard. And once, I
tell you, once you get a copy of it, If
you're not feeling heard when you go to your GP,
or you're feeling like, god, I think I'm going crazy,
like I'm losing the plot, yeah you're not, because we
all feel the same. Please get the book and know
that you are being heard, you are being seen. And
(23:48):
I mean, look at you. I've never seen you look
so you're glowing. You look fantastic, Shelly.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
I can honestly tell you I am now feeling the
healthiest and best in probably a decade. That's a pretty
nice thing to be able to say, and I don't
think I ever would have.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think I just took my whole for granted, and.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Now I'm like, look at how I've pulled myself up
from the depths of despair. So thank you for saying
I look well, because I actually feel it, and I'm
really proud because I had to work hard to get
back to where I am.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Author Shelley Haughton, I seriously think we were besties in
a former life. Her book, I'm Your Perry Godmother is
available at all Good bookstores. I'm Petrina Jones and this
is my podcast, Rage Against the Menopause.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Rage Against the Menopause.
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.