August 21, 2024 • 9 mins
What rights do grandparents have to see the children?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Robin and Jit podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A Robin and Keep in the morning. Ask a lawyer, Hello, Alice,
good morning, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Thank you mate. Now you have a question for our
family lawyer Brett.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
What is it? Yes, I do. It's quite an emotive
question and I think it would affect a lot of people.
I want to know what a grandparents write to see
their grandchildren when there has been an upset in the
family or many different reasons, divorce or whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Can we ask what your details are like or like,
why are you not able to see the grandchildren?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I don't know. I've fought a battle for about three
years where it has gone from not being able to
take them out to only being able to see them
at the home, and then over that three years it's
escalated down to I could only see than one hour
a month, and then no text messages or phone calls
(01:04):
were answered, and I had to actually just stop and
breathe for a couple of months because it's affected me
so badly. So I just thought when this came up,
there's so many people for different reasons that can be
affected by this, and it's very traumatic and also for
the children, I think as well. I mean, you don't
(01:26):
want to go down that path. But you've loved these
children for years and they've been part of your life,
and then it's just all taken away.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Is this your son or your daughter?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's my son and he won't have any conversation. I
have offered everything, counseling, I've just I've made myself ill
trying to work out whatever the problem is that I
am never given an answer. I have no idea what
it's all about. So you can't fix something that you
(02:00):
that when you don't know what the problem is.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You must have an inkling thoughlist. I'm just thinking it.
Something happened.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
He does not like my partner. We've been together twenty
one years, and it was virtually like an ultimatum of leave,
which I think is an unreasonable fool thing. But if
you're saying to me, you have to move out of
there otherwise we don't have anything to do with you,
I'm sorry, I don't think that's reasonable.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
What about your relationship with his partner?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So the mother of not good? You know, it's just
something where she doesn't like me. We could still fix that.
I could see them somewhere else, not you know, when
she's not there or whatever. There's many different answers to
problems like that.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I think, okay, And how old are the children?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
The children are ten and seven.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And this has been going bad.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
For hell about three years. And I used to babysit
the eldest one quite a bit when she was little,
so I've had a very very close relationship, especially with
the older one, and it's very sad because she'll say
to me, I'll never forget you, Nana. She'll tay things
(03:13):
like I love you and I don't know where mummy
and daddy o the way they are. And I sort
of had to stop because the last time I visited
the youngest child and I was only there an hour,
came out of the room very very upset in tears
and he said, oh, and I just don't know what
to do. And I said, what's wrong, darling, and he said, well,
(03:37):
I think you have to go. He was sent to
give me that message, which just shattered me because I thought,
I don't want them put in that situation. So I
just haven't tried for about three months because I had
to step away, take a breath and think what is
it doing to them?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Alice. There's so many things that don't make sense. Yeah, right,
like to me, like I just feel like there's something
that's happened, and also like that's your son and your
son doesn't want to see you.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, you don't.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
You're right, Alice, this is a question that a lot
of grandparents would ask if they are strange from their
children and grandchildren. So let's bring Brett in our family
lawyer and find out where you legally stand. Are you
willing to go to court?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It's something I have to think about, and of course
is it I think there's quite a huge cost. Yeap,
So that's something you'd have to mull over. I just
thought it was a question that maybe a lot of
other grandparents would like to know the answer to.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
For sure, I'm not a grandparent, and I'd still like
to know you exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, let's see where you stand. Hang in there, Alice,
we'll come back with bretton a minute.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
We've now got Brett Trafford, who specialized in family law
for RMO Law, in the studio with us for our
ask a lawyer moment. So, Alice, would you like to
just tell Brett your story briefly?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I want to know what a grandparents writes to see
their grandchildren when there has been an upset in the
family or many different reasons, divorce or whatever.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Hi, Alicie, you told me that you did see you
or your son did allow you to spend time with
your grandchildren up until about three years ago.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
If I got that, I have been.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Seeing them in the past three years, but that is
diminished over that three years. And the last situation was
the child was told for me to leave the house,
so I sort of stepped away for a couple of
months from my own mental health.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
And that was the youngest grandchild, the seven year old.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah that's right.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah, well that's cold, sot. Has your son actually told
you himself that he doesn't want you to see your grandkids?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
He just doesn't answer any correspondence. The only what I'm
limited to his messages because he won't take a phone
call from me. It might take a week to answer
something when I'm asking could I come and see them.
I've got mountains. I have never deleted any of them.
I have mountains of text messages that just never answered okay.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
And they don't like your current partner.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
No how long is.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Okay? So look the position in Queensland Alice is actually
the same in every state in Australia because the Family
Law Court is a federal court. That means the rules
are the same no matter what state you're in. And
the only people who have any rights in a parenting
dispute other children. Grandparents have no rights. Parents have no rights,
but the children do. A court will only ever make
(06:42):
parenting orders if those parenting orders are in the opinion
of the court, in the child's best interests, So they
obviously question is well, okay, what's in the child's best interests?
And in a matter like this, a court will decide
that the children. It's in every child's best interest to
have a meaningful relationship with both of their parents and
(07:03):
other significant people in their life, which I imagine you
may well be. And so while you don't have a
right to spend time with the children, your parents argue
they don't have a right to not let you spend
time with them either. So from what you've told me,
I suspect that mediation might not work. But look, the
rules of the court do require parties to at least
(07:24):
attempt mediation.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I've already tried that, okay, and that was refused.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Well, you can kind of tick that box. I guess
I'm not suggesting it's something you should do, because going
to court is you only do that if it's the
last resort, if everything is failed.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
If mediation's out, Is that the only next step a
court order?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Well, the only step is to bring an application. Year
is if you've tried to mediate with someone in an
agreement and the other person simply won't you can't or
won't discuss it, then your only option is either just
to walk away and see what happens as the children
of the grandchildren get older, or bring an application to man.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
It's not going to end well, it doesn't feel good.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
What are you going to do, Alice, I don't know.
I'm going to think on it.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
You see, if you did bring an application for parenting orders, ALUs,
I'm not suggesting you should, but it's an option, and
it will be an expensive option, and there's never any
guarantees which way it would go because of so many
unanswered questions. It would help your application if you mention
all of this and say, listen, this is what happened,
this is what happened this time. Here's all the text
(08:30):
messages that used to work back then. It doesn't work. Now,
having said that, it's a bit adversarial, isn't it. That
may even do more harm than good. And again, a
court will only be looking at whether or not it's
in your grandchildren's best interest to maintain a relationship with you,
and there are no guarantees which way that would go.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Ultimately, I just want to do what's best for the children,
and I've seen them torn between what they think is right.
And there's a part of me that says I should
just walk away because I don't want them being the
ones that are in the middle, put up in the middle,
(09:12):
and they, you know, having to deliver messages to me
or lie to me. I don't want that for them
at all.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I wish I could talk to your son, mate. I'd
love to know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Here me too, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Thank you for sharing, Alison. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully you've got
at least an answer, even if it's not that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Thank you, guys, Thanks very much.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Wake Up with Robin and Kid
The Robin and Jit podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A Robin and Keep in the morning. Ask a lawyer, Hello, Alice,
good morning, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Thank you mate. Now you have a question for our
family lawyer Brett.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
What is it? Yes, I do. It's quite an emotive
question and I think it would affect a lot of people.
I want to know what a grandparents write to see
their grandchildren when there has been an upset in the
family or many different reasons, divorce or whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Can we ask what your details are like or like,
why are you not able to see the grandchildren?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I don't know. I've fought a battle for about three
years where it has gone from not being able to
take them out to only being able to see them
at the home, and then over that three years it's
escalated down to I could only see than one hour
a month, and then no text messages or phone calls
(01:04):
were answered, and I had to actually just stop and
breathe for a couple of months because it's affected me
so badly. So I just thought when this came up,
there's so many people for different reasons that can be
affected by this, and it's very traumatic and also for
the children, I think as well. I mean, you don't
(01:26):
want to go down that path. But you've loved these
children for years and they've been part of your life,
and then it's just all taken away.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Is this your son or your daughter?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's my son and he won't have any conversation. I
have offered everything, counseling, I've just I've made myself ill
trying to work out whatever the problem is that I
am never given an answer. I have no idea what
it's all about. So you can't fix something that you
(02:00):
that when you don't know what the problem is.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You must have an inkling thoughlist. I'm just thinking it.
Something happened.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
He does not like my partner. We've been together twenty
one years, and it was virtually like an ultimatum of leave,
which I think is an unreasonable fool thing. But if
you're saying to me, you have to move out of
there otherwise we don't have anything to do with you,
I'm sorry, I don't think that's reasonable.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
What about your relationship with his partner?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So the mother of not good? You know, it's just
something where she doesn't like me. We could still fix that.
I could see them somewhere else, not you know, when
she's not there or whatever. There's many different answers to
problems like that.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I think, okay, And how old are the children?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
The children are ten and seven.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And this has been going bad.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
For hell about three years. And I used to babysit
the eldest one quite a bit when she was little,
so I've had a very very close relationship, especially with
the older one, and it's very sad because she'll say
to me, I'll never forget you, Nana. She'll tay things
(03:13):
like I love you and I don't know where mummy
and daddy o the way they are. And I sort
of had to stop because the last time I visited
the youngest child and I was only there an hour,
came out of the room very very upset in tears
and he said, oh, and I just don't know what
to do. And I said, what's wrong, darling, and he said, well,
(03:37):
I think you have to go. He was sent to
give me that message, which just shattered me because I thought,
I don't want them put in that situation. So I
just haven't tried for about three months because I had
to step away, take a breath and think what is
it doing to them?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Alice. There's so many things that don't make sense. Yeah, right,
like to me, like I just feel like there's something
that's happened, and also like that's your son and your
son doesn't want to see you.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, you don't.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
You're right, Alice, this is a question that a lot
of grandparents would ask if they are strange from their
children and grandchildren. So let's bring Brett in our family
lawyer and find out where you legally stand. Are you
willing to go to court?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It's something I have to think about, and of course
is it I think there's quite a huge cost. Yeap,
So that's something you'd have to mull over. I just
thought it was a question that maybe a lot of
other grandparents would like to know the answer to.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
For sure, I'm not a grandparent, and I'd still like
to know you exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, let's see where you stand. Hang in there, Alice,
we'll come back with bretton a minute.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
All right, thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
We've now got Brett Trafford, who specialized in family law
for RMO Law, in the studio with us for our
ask a lawyer moment. So, Alice, would you like to
just tell Brett your story briefly?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I want to know what a grandparents writes to see
their grandchildren when there has been an upset in the
family or many different reasons, divorce or whatever.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Hi, Alicie, you told me that you did see you
or your son did allow you to spend time with
your grandchildren up until about three years ago.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
If I got that, I have been.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Seeing them in the past three years, but that is
diminished over that three years. And the last situation was
the child was told for me to leave the house,
so I sort of stepped away for a couple of
months from my own mental health.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
And that was the youngest grandchild, the seven year old.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah that's right.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah, well that's cold, sot. Has your son actually told
you himself that he doesn't want you to see your grandkids?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
He just doesn't answer any correspondence. The only what I'm
limited to his messages because he won't take a phone
call from me. It might take a week to answer
something when I'm asking could I come and see them.
I've got mountains. I have never deleted any of them.
I have mountains of text messages that just never answered okay.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
And they don't like your current partner.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
No how long is.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Okay? So look the position in Queensland Alice is actually
the same in every state in Australia because the Family
Law Court is a federal court. That means the rules
are the same no matter what state you're in. And
the only people who have any rights in a parenting
dispute other children. Grandparents have no rights. Parents have no rights,
but the children do. A court will only ever make
(06:42):
parenting orders if those parenting orders are in the opinion
of the court, in the child's best interests, So they
obviously question is well, okay, what's in the child's best interests?
And in a matter like this, a court will decide
that the children. It's in every child's best interest to
have a meaningful relationship with both of their parents and
(07:03):
other significant people in their life, which I imagine you
may well be. And so while you don't have a
right to spend time with the children, your parents argue
they don't have a right to not let you spend
time with them either. So from what you've told me,
I suspect that mediation might not work. But look, the
rules of the court do require parties to at least
(07:24):
attempt mediation.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I've already tried that, okay, and that was refused.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Well, you can kind of tick that box. I guess
I'm not suggesting it's something you should do, because going
to court is you only do that if it's the
last resort, if everything is failed.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
If mediation's out, Is that the only next step a
court order?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Well, the only step is to bring an application. Year
is if you've tried to mediate with someone in an
agreement and the other person simply won't you can't or
won't discuss it, then your only option is either just
to walk away and see what happens as the children
of the grandchildren get older, or bring an application to man.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
It's not going to end well, it doesn't feel good.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
What are you going to do, Alice, I don't know.
I'm going to think on it.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
You see, if you did bring an application for parenting orders, ALUs,
I'm not suggesting you should, but it's an option, and
it will be an expensive option, and there's never any
guarantees which way it would go because of so many
unanswered questions. It would help your application if you mention
all of this and say, listen, this is what happened,
this is what happened this time. Here's all the text
(08:30):
messages that used to work back then. It doesn't work. Now,
having said that, it's a bit adversarial, isn't it. That
may even do more harm than good. And again, a
court will only be looking at whether or not it's
in your grandchildren's best interest to maintain a relationship with you,
and there are no guarantees which way that would go.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Ultimately, I just want to do what's best for the children,
and I've seen them torn between what they think is right.
And there's a part of me that says I should
just walk away because I don't want them being the
ones that are in the middle, put up in the middle,
(09:12):
and they, you know, having to deliver messages to me
or lie to me. I don't want that for them
at all.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I wish I could talk to your son, mate. I'd
love to know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Here me too, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Thank you for sharing, Alison. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully you've got
at least an answer, even if it's not that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Thank you, guys, Thanks very much.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Wake Up with Robin and Kid
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