March 31, 2023 • 33 mins
Brisbane’s $200,000 Catfish Victim – The Whole Story.
Special thanks to PI Dave from Austrace Investigations
https://www.cyber.gov.au/acsc/report
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a brother, Terry and kid Hi, and welcome to
our Catfishing Special. My name's Kip Whipeman and we're going
to be going through the story of a lady we
came to call Annie, who was catfish.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
She was from here in Brisbane, Australia.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
She called our radio show, Robin, Terry and Kip on
Kiss ninety seven three. The very first part of this
podcast begins with Jane, her sister in law, who called
our show concerned about what was going on.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
My sister in law. She met a guy online in
August last year. He is overseas and coming back to
his home here in Brisbane. She's just come out of
a divorce and very vulnerable. She's just had a property
settlement done and she told him about this and she
(00:48):
has been scammed two hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
How how did she give him the money? He asked
for it and she gave it to him.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, because she's so desperate for him to come home here.
She's packed up a house. She's ready to move in
with him. I went to the address that she gazed
me and there's a lovely couple living there and they've
been there for four years.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And that's supposed to be his house.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, yep, that's empty and ready for them to move
in to be their new love.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
There, Jane, do we even think this guy is in
whichever overseas place he is or exists in that right?
Is there any he will show up?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
N he's there to be here today? We sated her
phone because it's the only way that she's communicating with him.
And where Who's been to the police and they're not
that interested because this happens all the time. But you
have to go through the cyber crime process.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
So, Jane, she still believes he's a real thing, doesn't she.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Unfortunately, there's still that that flicker of hope there.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Yeah, yeah, hope.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
The problem, isn't it because she wants him to be real.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, he's sitting in a call center somewhere and he's
going home to his one kids every.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Night, and there's no way of tracking who what? How
have you ever spoken or texted or had any communication
with him?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
No, we haven't. We we've encouraged her since August last
year to send an engineer apparently to send a copy
of his passport and so forth. And he said that
he felt that that was unsafe to do so online.
How does an Australian go and work overseas without Yeah, somehow?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And how is it safe to send two hundred thousand
dollars online?
Speaker 7 (02:28):
You know?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, he's happy with that.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So she's even gone to the degree of she's lost
all her settlement money, she's taken out a credit card
and she's advanced it all in cash. Yeah, and she's
now in an absolutely horrific.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Situation but still believes in him.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Oh, I mean, I don't even know what to say
to you, Jane, because unless she's willing to stop it,
she'll end up with nothing.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, it's already it's already at that point of she
has nothing. And you know, I've read all the messages
and you can see how a vulnerable person that has
low self esteem could be sucked in so easily because
they have an excuse for everything.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Jane, there was any way of us being able to
use our resources to prove to her that that guy
doesn't exist. Do you reckon she'd be up for it?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Look, she might be.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So. After talking with Jane about her sister in law Annie,
they had some discussions off air and it's happened over
a number of days. Eventually Annie agreed to come on
the show and share her story.
Speaker 8 (03:32):
My family suggested O heay wanted to go online, you know, vaiting,
and then I met this man. I didn't know at
first that he was not in the country. He told
me the next time. We got off the dating site
and went on to WhatsApp, and certain things had occurred,
like he dropped his phone, cameras didn't work, so we
(03:52):
couldn't FaceTime, couldn't see and then started, you know, for
him to finish his project. He needed assistance of money
to do this, so I sent money.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
How much money Annie?
Speaker 8 (04:06):
Overall? Around two hundred thousand k oh?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
My goodness. Okay, any where was he? Did you you
said he wasn't in Australia You thought he was in
the beginning. Did you find out where he ended up
was living.
Speaker 8 (04:19):
He's in South Africa, kun working as an electrical engineer
on a project. Every time he needed to have more money,
there was another issue and he was trying to go
to his family, but he had already depleted there apparently,
And so I actually got a credit card and kept
increasing that to help.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Had you ever seen him at this point? Had you
ever visually laid eyes on him only once.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
I had a video chat with him, regular face to FaceTime. No,
nothing like that at all on.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
The video chat.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Annie, So you did talk to the man who and
he was how he had earlier described himself.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
Yeah, and we'll speak every morning and afternoon generally because
of the time difference, and we'd talk for quite a while.
I'll talk about everything, you know, all things that we'd
have in common, which was quite a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Okay, hey Jane here of course you're here. Sorry, how
have you been listening in? So has a Swedish accent
and said he was South African.
Speaker 8 (05:21):
No, no, No, he's Australian.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Oh, said he's Australian Redcliffe.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
He's Australian from Redcliffe, but he lives in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And did he explain the Swedish accent?
Speaker 8 (05:31):
He came from Sweden.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He came from Sweden before Redcliffe and then Africa.
Speaker 8 (05:36):
Yeah, he moved over here with his wife and his
wife had passed away five years ago.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So okay, Annie, how long have you been dealing with
him for?
Speaker 8 (05:46):
Since August last year?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Can I ask you, mate, what do you think is
happening here?
Speaker 8 (05:52):
I don't know I'd like an answer. I feel stupid,
I feel foolish, but it's kind of got a glimmer
of hope.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
That I know, hang on, hang on. So you feel
stupid in terms of believing in him? Yeah, And what's
the glimmer of hope.
Speaker 9 (06:08):
In believing in him or that you think.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
He may well still be the person that he says
he is?
Speaker 8 (06:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Annie, why have you then given your phone to Jane?
Speaker 8 (06:19):
Because Jane's protecting me, not wanting me to invest anymore
money because I had lies, but I hadn't given all
this money, and it got deeper and deeper, and I
got short term lines and then it got worse and
I borrowed money from my mum.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
And lying about that, Annie, you've got nothing left? Is
that what you're saying?
Speaker 7 (06:44):
I have nothing left?
Speaker 8 (06:45):
My tax free friend from last year, my bonus, my life,
my divorced dolment, everything's gone.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Annie. Are you willing for us to we have access
to a PI a great guy called Dave who's done
a lot of' what worked for us in the past
and is incredibly successful at what he does. Are you
willing for us to tell him your story and get
some answers.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
For you, I would really like some answers.
Speaker 7 (07:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So after hearing Annie's story, she was still in a
pretty fragile condition at that stage, still believing that this
cat Fisher was telling the truth and that he was
eventually going to come home and they were going to
move into their place together in Redcliffe. And so we
set our PI Dave on the case. And this is
the moment that p I Dave gets to hear the
story and understand what he's actually looking for.
Speaker 10 (07:36):
Look, there's a couple of avenues that I can look down.
You know, these people are professionals and what they do
and that's the hardest thing. They've done this numerous times before,
so they are very good at covering their trucks. But look,
let's see what we can uncover.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
A Okay, so how long do you think it'll take
you and what sort of stuff will you do? Because
it's in South Africa or do you think it's not
in South Africa?
Speaker 10 (07:56):
Look, if I was a betting man, I'd say that
the person would not be in South Africa. But I've
got a few details there that we can start. Obviously,
you know, he's alleging that he is from Redcliff, let's
follow that line and see if there is any sort
of trail that links him back to that Red Cliff
area or the Risbone era anyway, and see if his story,
you know, initially starts to have some resemblance of truth.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Okay, well, PI Dave, go to it. Do whatever it
is you have to do. How long do you, yeah,
go get him? How long do you think it'll take
you look.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Give us a couple of days.
Speaker 10 (08:27):
We'll chase a few of these leads and see.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Where that takes us.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So, now that PI Dave has had a small amount
of time I think it was only twenty four hours,
he needed to discover what he could about this man.
He was given, obviously details from any given his name, given,
some of the bank accounts, money was sent to the
address where he was supposed to be living at some
stage in Redcliffe. So PI Dave went and did some investigation,
(08:53):
not just over the phone, not just on Google, but
he actually went to the locations.
Speaker 10 (08:58):
I've conducted just computer based searches from the details that
you gave me of this gentleman's name and address. There's
absolutely no record of this man anywhere on any databases
that we have access to. There is no electronic footprint
of him at all, which means he's never owned any property,
never rented anywhere, has no licenses, no vehicles.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
How common is that? I mean, that's almost impossible, isn't it.
Speaker 10 (09:23):
It's very uncommon. Most people have some footprint somewhere. For
someone to have absolutely no information or data on them
is nearly.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Impossible these days.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
So I'd be suggesting that it's an absolute fake name.
So this person is using and a fake person in himself.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
This is not great news for any First up, you're
right there, yeah.
Speaker 8 (09:46):
On, I thought I was prepared for the word, but
to know.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
That's not good?
Speaker 5 (09:51):
What about the leads for address Redcliff and places to
mention like that?
Speaker 10 (09:56):
As you recall, And he was able to provide me
with the address. Gentleman said that he owned and had
lived there for a number of years. I've attended on
that address and spoken with the occupants of that particular
unit and that unit complex. They've lived there for four years,
and they have never heard of this male person, nor
(10:17):
have they ever seen this male person from the photos
that I had shown them. Further to that, I also
was and then able to speak with the real estate
agents that had managed this complex for a number of years,
and again they'd never heard of this male person, nor
again have they seen any persons depicted, you know, in
the photos that I was able to show them. The
(10:38):
actual complex itself is a smaller complex of about eight units.
I've spoken to each and every person of that unit complex.
Again they've never heard of any such person existing as
owning a unit, and also they've never seen anyone by
the photographs that I've shown them. So all in all,
all the inquiries that this person is fake is fictitious.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So having discovered that our catfisher was not who he
said he was, it was indeed a catfisher, PI Dave
then went to trace the money. Over two hundred thousand
dollars had been sent from Annie, some of it it
looks like, were sent in Australia. So PI Dave went hunting.
Speaker 10 (11:19):
So when I spoke with Annie, she was able to
provide me with some banking details of where she deposited
some money. And if you remember the story from Annie,
this person where she deposited the money was supposedly the
finance broker of the said cat fisher. So I was
able to do some inquiries about this bank account, which
(11:40):
led me to an address in Ipswich. Yes, I attended
how did Ipswich and spoke to a female that was
the same person as Annie had transferred about fifty thousand
dollars was the amount that she told me she transferred
into this account to an How are.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
You going here? Because you know we haven't really touched
base with you yet.
Speaker 9 (12:04):
I'm a bit flabagas that it's which seriously and she's real.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 8 (12:12):
Wow, tell us more.
Speaker 10 (12:15):
Yes, so I did speak with this lady, who was
a lovely lady. By the way, She's admitted that she's
received significant amounts of money from yourself Annie, and in
fact she was then sending this money to a male
person in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You mean he's been lying to her as well.
Speaker 10 (12:38):
Well, that's where the story the thick plottins. I guess
you say. This lady admitted that she's never actually met
this male person to who she was sending the money.
In fact, she had met him on a dating shot.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
In fact, this lady, what was the story she was
told as to where that fifty gram was coming from?
Speaker 10 (12:58):
Well, she was told by this smile person that someone
would be making some deposits to her as a medium
person to assist him in his business dealings over in
South Africa. So basically, the story that she was told
had a number of similarities to what Annie had been
told you. She'd been told that he was working in
(13:20):
South Africa. He was a mechanical engineer. His business was struggling.
He needed money to get his business up off the ground.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
God, Dan, the money's gone overseas to him, haven't it.
Speaker 10 (13:31):
Well, I've got some good news for you.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Annie.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It's something, but it's not everything.
Speaker 10 (13:35):
But this lady, when she heard your story, was quite
quite devastated, quite distraught that you'd lost everything. And she
actually has twenty five thousand dollars left of the money
that she's caught willing to return to you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh man, I'm.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Speechless, card almost.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Oh my god, goodness, Annie.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
That's incredible but helpful.
Speaker 8 (14:06):
That's so wonderful.
Speaker 9 (14:08):
I can't believe that he's like double cast fishing.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Now it's all good and well to say, oh, yes,
I've got your money and I'm going to send it back.
Sometimes those promises can happen in the heat of the moment.
But we spoke to Annie about whether the money actually arrived.
Speaker 9 (14:24):
I had twenty four thousand dollars deposited into my bank
account yesterday.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
That's awesome. That is awesome. What okay, twenty four?
Speaker 8 (14:35):
Thankful?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
It was supposed to be twenty five, wasn't it. I
will take whatever?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah? OK, no, Amen, maybe it's just about Oh that's great.
Speaker 9 (14:46):
I am so unbelievably grateful.
Speaker 8 (14:49):
I feel blessed that has come my way.
Speaker 9 (14:52):
I feel lighter from that.
Speaker 11 (14:54):
When I saw my bank account, I nearly fallen over.
Speaker 8 (14:58):
It was incredible.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Earlier, when we'd spoken to PI Dave, the first thing
I could think was, Wow, can you get these two
people together? Can we get a lady who were going
to call Meghan who was also being catfish where.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Annie had been sending the money.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Could we get them to have a discussion and you know,
exchange stories see if they were indeed talking to the
same man.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And we got to do that.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Hello, Meighen, Hello, how are you going?
Speaker 12 (15:24):
Yeah? Ba, long on.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I mean, this has been huge for you to tell
us about what happened. When PI Dave contacted you.
Speaker 12 (15:32):
I just feel like an idiot. I was devastated. He
told me he loved me and he wanted to marry
me and go to make me the happiest woman in
the world.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
And Meghan, how long was that?
Speaker 12 (15:45):
A year or two?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And you totally understand what Annie's talking about that he
was really convincing.
Speaker 12 (15:52):
He is really convincing it, and I feel sorry for
the people out there that eat cons Next you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Get the feeling then, Meghan that now that you found
out that he's a liar, that he'll just look for
another revenue stream.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
He'll move on to someone else.
Speaker 12 (16:05):
Yeah, I feel so bad.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Did you lose money to him?
Speaker 12 (16:10):
About twenty thousand?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
When Annie first transferred money into your account.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
The story was that he.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Needed the money and was going to have someone send
it to him and then you would have to on
send it. But you didn't send the full fifty thousand.
He would have been putting you under extreme pressure to
send it all.
Speaker 12 (16:27):
He was threatening me and once the money went into
my account and if I didn't send it, he was
going to get people to come to my house.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So why didn't you send the whole amount?
Speaker 12 (16:39):
Because the person come to my house and told me
what was going on, so I stopped it.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Wow, So it was timing.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, so if PI David come a few days later.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It might have been too late.
Speaker 12 (16:50):
I'm not coping well at all because he calmed me
to do something that was bad and.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
He what it'd like to hear Megan's voice after.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
All this time.
Speaker 8 (16:58):
Firstly, let me just say thank you. Honestly you have
helped me, like I'm totally grateful. But to hear that
it's threatening you.
Speaker 12 (17:09):
Now I have to go and block my count because
he's got someone to go and take the money out
of my count because he doesn't know that it's not there.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And does he know where you live?
Speaker 12 (17:20):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Okay, so he can't come again, you know.
Speaker 12 (17:24):
Switch, But that's it.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
This man is a liar. There's nothing about what this
man says, both good and bad, that is true. And
this man's taken twenty thousand dollars of your hard earned cash.
Have you got people around you that can help you?
Speaker 12 (17:38):
My children?
Speaker 9 (17:39):
Have you told them?
Speaker 12 (17:41):
My son? Yeah? My daughter know, because I want to
tell her in person. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
We can offer you some support with a counselor. We've
got the best counselor ever, called Heidi from Heidi's Counseling Service.
If that would assist you because this is not your fault.
You've done nothing wrong. In fact, what you've done is
help Dannie get back on her feet.
Speaker 12 (18:03):
I still man because I feel like I should be
painted some of that fact.
Speaker 8 (18:08):
No, no, no, no, don't don't feel like that. Please, Honestly, Megan,
what has happened is you have stopped a lifeline of
finances going through to him, okay, and that is going
to annoy him, which is great.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Along the way with this cat fishing story, even though
we had some great news that were able to get
some of the money back to Annie, and that was
really just from the goodness of Megan's heart. You know,
she was under no legal compulsion to do that. But
one of the things is a real feeling of frustration,
like how do you get these people? How do you
find out who they are? And then if you do
find out, what can you do about it? So we
(18:50):
brought the police in, who deal with this a lot
more than we would have thought. Detective Senior Constable from
the Financial and Cyber Crime Group Graham joins.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Us Gram, You've had exactly what's been going on.
Speaker 13 (19:01):
What do you think this is a crime that's become
really prevalent with the world of online dating and social media, catfishing, lying, deception, whatever.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
The thing about this particular scenario, and I guess we
hear it a lot. And my perception of catfishing is
the problem is that these women are giving money.
Speaker 13 (19:20):
What do we do do You'll have people listening today
and been listening over the last couple of days. It's
some stage in the next twelve or eight in months,
if they're on the dating apps, there's a fairly good
chance that they are going to be approached by something similar,
and all the red flags you've been discussing will sit
in the background of the mind and then they'll suddenly
leap forward and say, hang on, there's something on the
radio about this. I have to back off and think.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Okay, well give us those red flags, because you have
written a book about this, and they're really clear.
Speaker 13 (19:46):
The red flags are fraud. If they want to identify
what you are looking for, what is the vulnerability you
are looking for, and they will provide the solution. So
online dating its loneliness and looking for love, that's fine,
but they will use a technique called mirroring. They will
look at your profile, who you are, what's your life journey,
(20:08):
where you are at the moment, and what you are
looking for, and they will create a profile which reflects
very similar to what you are looking for.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Okay, so that's number one.
Speaker 13 (20:17):
Number two anything where you cannot meet Most of these
people are overseas. I cannot physically meet you because in
most circumstances, if you're building that relationship, well let's meet
a coffee in a very open place where it's safe
for everyone. But they don't want to do that because
they cannot present themselves, so they say, I'm overseas and
by the way, my webcam doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Yeah, but they're also love bombing them like crazy, surely
because there must be other stuff going on psychologically where
they're making this person feel safe and potentially in love.
Speaker 13 (20:48):
Very powerful emotion. We've had cyber criminals we've investigated overseas
where they have actually had academic journals on the psychology
of loneliness, where they have actually researched it very extensive,
so they know the emotional vulnerabilities of human beings. These
crimes also are not a one to one relationship, one
offender against one victim. We've dealt with some before. You've
(21:09):
had ten to fifteen people all part of a syndicate
targeting one individual and playing different roles, and then they
will cross reference and corroborate each other and fill in
the gaps and story.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
So you've got.
Speaker 13 (21:20):
Fifteen to one. What chance has that particular person got
to defend themselves? And there was a relationship for a
very very aggressive.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
At which point all that in terms of your unit,
did they first break the law?
Speaker 13 (21:32):
Well, they're preparing to commit a crime and they're doing
the research. But when they start lying and deceiving to
obtain money, you're really seriously stepping over. Before that, it
depends on circumstances and legal opinions. But once they say
I need money for this reason, it's a pure lie.
They've crossed their boundary.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
So that's number four.
Speaker 13 (21:49):
If they ask for money, Yeah, you're in you're rearly
need flat fort.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Sot Graham with any how long will this take? Do
you reckon? Is it months? Is she just got to
get on with your life.
Speaker 13 (21:59):
The process is reported through cyber dot gov dot AU
and then it gets triaged and it gets referred onwards
being overseas, that would be referred to some stage to
the AFP for referral overseas.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So now that Annie's got this newfound confidence, now that
she knows that she has been catfish, but it's kind
of in a position of power because she knows that he's.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
A liar and he doesn't know that she knows.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Annie was ready to take it up a notch and
offered to record a conversation with him on her phone
and see if she could catch him out. So this
is the moment you finally get to hear this guy
and keep an ear out because his story to Annie
is that he's from Sweden. He was Swedish born, moved
to Redcliffe, Australia, was there for many years before heading
to South Africa for work. So have listened to this
(22:43):
accent and see if any of that sounds right to you.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Yeah, going, okay, happen to your lives. I had to
go to a hospital because my mental health wasn't great.
Speaker 14 (22:57):
What issue is that TV you have been on you
because you come from a two weeks now.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
Yeah, I had to go back into hospital to get
my meds and everything sorted out so I can function
because I'm not functioning very well and I feel the
pressure that you're not going to be coming home and
I am struggling to do all the payments and everything,
and it just got to me and I broke.
Speaker 14 (23:25):
How did you get in press from are You're just
busy listening to what people are telling you. That's what
needs you to.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
Feel like that.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
No empathy, straight empathy, straight into turning it around and
saying it's other people talking, it's not me.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Trying to isolate it by doing that.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Ready, and keep in mind that she's been told he's
Swedish and has lived in Brisbane.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Redcliffe for more places. Yes, so the conversation continues.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
No empathy, but he's still interested in the cash.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
So how much money do you need now to come home?
Speaker 14 (24:00):
I get five grande Now everything is done, Okay, I
would never ask for any money.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
What's that funny.
Speaker 14 (24:09):
Oh Carney from the Minister of Justice. The money was
not enough. The documents were a lot because I needed
to update everything and get our stamps. Okay, I told
you that. The calculated I'm I'm gonna say you are
when I send you the documents for my contract, You're
(24:31):
going to see how much that is in solftware. The calculate.
They do it by percentage. They will use the calculat
and calculate her mother was involved, and then has you
Okay when you send me, when I use it for
the world you sent it for, I don't use it
for something stup because I'm not an idiot.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
But it fine.
Speaker 14 (24:48):
I know why you're feeling like this. You assisted me
with a lot of money. You're scared of losing your money,
which you are not going to lose. But it's all right.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Here, all the honeys and babies like he never uses
a name because he doesn't even remember it, probably because
he's got so many people on the guy.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And maybe if that's you're concerned about someone who you
think is been catfish, get them to simply ask what's
my name?
Speaker 12 (25:13):
Just quickly?
Speaker 8 (25:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (25:14):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And he goes on now pretending to be a good guy.
Speaker 14 (25:19):
When I said to you that I'm going to pay
you back your money, I told you that my mom
didn't raise me to play around with people's feelings or
do it away with your money. I'm going to pay
you every cent to you assisted me with. Then you
know that I was never lied to you. So what
is your christian in and all of that, I'm not
lying to you, Okay, So.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
He has a mom.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I wouldn't suspect.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Us, but it does not make you angry like just
listening to it. I just I'm so annoyed.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, the manipulation and waite you here when Annie actually
starts pressing.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
You don't have a camera on that computer and it's.
Speaker 14 (25:57):
An old school test stuff. Have you forgotten the day
you asked me this.
Speaker 15 (26:01):
I know you think that I would be able to
get away, but seems such a big company not to
have basic technology.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
It's crazy.
Speaker 14 (26:13):
He managers and the officials might have, but when I'm
using doesn't have. Maybe this is understandable. Stop making a
mountain out of a mole hill.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Oh please, okay, well, you know it's.
Speaker 14 (26:25):
Very wrong for you to speak like that. It's it's
it's not surprise.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
I think, for my sanity and everything, we're just not
going to have to be in contact with each other anymore.
Speaker 15 (26:35):
And I'm sick.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
All right.
Speaker 14 (26:37):
Then when when I'm sorted out, it's all right. He
had what he said. He gave me money because I
needed to sort my life out and my business and
then I'm going to pay you back. But you just
made your points clear, and you told me your feelings,
your heart and all take care of yourself. Just but
you know that well, you know, problem to your health.
(27:01):
It's fine talk.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
You probably noticed throughout the duration of this podcast the
change in Andie's voice from being so sullen and so
sad and so desperate to all of a sudden being
in this position of power enlightenment. She knew what was
going on. She was feeling better about herself. We spoke
to any about how that felt.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
That was fun. Feel you on the back foot. And
the thing is, he contacted me in this morning just
by text, kicking in, how are you you know? They
had to sleep, all that usual generic crab. So I've
answered him, so I'm waiting for him to ask because
(27:50):
the last conversation was he's wanting another five thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
So when he asks that, what are you going to say?
Speaker 8 (27:57):
I thank.
Speaker 9 (28:00):
It.
Speaker 8 (28:01):
I know the internet is terrible, but I haven't received
the contract you said you'll send me, so must be
stuck somewhere because you know.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So many power over there, the same technical issues that
you're having for the last year.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yes, it happens, and it was he did he sound
different to the other times you've spoken to him.
Speaker 8 (28:22):
He was a bit more defensive, definitely.
Speaker 9 (28:26):
I think he was taking umbrage at it that I
was asking him more questions when he came back that
he worked. It's touch a large company, and I'm questioning
on why can't you just sit a webcam.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
You're seeing it with different eyes, aren't you.
Speaker 11 (28:42):
Oh yeah, how generic the answers are, and how he
uses his language so he doesn't need to remember your
name because you'll call you babe.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
The way you're going and you're operating so well on
that call, I think p I Dave might have some
casual work for you.
Speaker 8 (29:01):
Wow, I'm open to that.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
You've got to be proud of yourself. You have turned
this around. You have absolutely now starting to take the
power back and the amount of people you are helping,
just by proving that you can still hold your head
up even though you have been scammed and you know
you've been scammed. What a difference, mate, What a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
So, after losing over two hundred thousand dollars, one little
bit of good news was getting twenty four thousand dollars back.
None of us expected that and it was a matter
of days for Anie getting that money back. For us
as a radio station, and if you listen to the
podcast outside of knowing who we are where Kiss ninety
seven to three.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
We are a breakfast show.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Robin Terry and I do a breakfast show in Brisbane,
Australia and one of the big shows in Australia when
it comes to chasing down criminals. Knocking on doors is
the current affair and Chris Allen, who's a local reporter.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Also based in Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
We ask Chris on the show to give him the
story and see if they want to take it any further.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
ACA has bigger budgets, tougher people and more resources than
we do, and we figured if there was anyone that
could catch them, maybe you guys would be interested in
picking up the story.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, look, we'd love to. It is extraordinary and we
have done a couple similar to this in the past
where people have been defrauded of a huge amounts of
money and it's so sad because once it leaves the country,
it's you know, even the police can't help them get
it back, and it's just so sad for those people
that they've been misled in the worst possible way.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Can I tell you, Chris, there's another aspect to this
it's clear that there are many, many, many women you know,
and men being deforded this way in this town. And
even the few who've called into us, you know, and
we've a kound of a story, they're still not willing
to accept that the person they're on the line too
is not the real deal.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Yes, I know, it's extraordinary, isn't it. Even when you
and I may listen to them and think, no, this
isn't an American marine. You're talking to someone in Nigeria.
I don't know. I think the need, you know, for
that kind of company and what these people are trying
to flog is so great that they just get blinkers.
They don't see it.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
Well, haven't listened to this guy? And actually we have
a little bit of Ani who recorder an interaction with him.
So if you're hearing Swedish engineer, I'm going to you that.
Speaker 15 (31:22):
I'm going to pay you back your money.
Speaker 14 (31:24):
I told you that my mom did e raise me
to play around with people's feelings or do it away
with your money. I'm going to pay you every cent
you assisted me. Then you know that I was never
lied to you. So it is your Christian and I
love that I'm not lying to you, Okay.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah, have you ever traced someone down, say in Africa
or Nigeria? I mean, you've done these stories before. Have
you ever been able to get close?
Speaker 7 (31:53):
Look? I personally haven't to be to be honest here,
but I have seen it done on occasions they have
raided is because they usually operate out of call centers
with teams and you know, it's a group effort. But
the police are getting better and better at isolating them.
So I'm glad to hear that the women you have
spoken to have contacted police as well, and we'd be
(32:16):
happy to talk to them and see what we can do,
because once they know usually the jigg is up, they'll
stop annoying these people. But you know that of course
they've already done a huge amount of damage. But no,
we would love to I'd love to go and kick
a door down and yeah, but you know, and I
dare say if if we could establish exactly where they
(32:37):
were and what they're up to, we'd be up for that.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
So that's it for now with our cat fishing story.
Hopefully we will have an update. Hopefully there's more after
a current affair get their teeth into it. If this
is something that sounds like it might be close to
home for you. Perhaps you've got a family member who's
been catfished, talk to them about reporting cyber and you
can do that through cyber dot gov dot are You
also one three hundred number available on the website if
(33:02):
you want to Google it, and we'll catch you next time,
hopefully and happier circumstances.
It's a brother, Terry and kid Hi, and welcome to
our Catfishing Special. My name's Kip Whipeman and we're going
to be going through the story of a lady we
came to call Annie, who was catfish.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
She was from here in Brisbane, Australia.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
She called our radio show, Robin, Terry and Kip on
Kiss ninety seven three. The very first part of this
podcast begins with Jane, her sister in law, who called
our show concerned about what was going on.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
My sister in law. She met a guy online in
August last year. He is overseas and coming back to
his home here in Brisbane. She's just come out of
a divorce and very vulnerable. She's just had a property
settlement done and she told him about this and she
(00:48):
has been scammed two hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
How how did she give him the money? He asked
for it and she gave it to him.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah, because she's so desperate for him to come home here.
She's packed up a house. She's ready to move in
with him. I went to the address that she gazed
me and there's a lovely couple living there and they've
been there for four years.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And that's supposed to be his house.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yes, yep, that's empty and ready for them to move
in to be their new love.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
There, Jane, do we even think this guy is in
whichever overseas place he is or exists in that right?
Is there any he will show up?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
N he's there to be here today? We sated her
phone because it's the only way that she's communicating with him.
And where Who's been to the police and they're not
that interested because this happens all the time. But you
have to go through the cyber crime process.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
So, Jane, she still believes he's a real thing, doesn't she.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Unfortunately, there's still that that flicker of hope there.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Yeah, yeah, hope.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
The problem, isn't it because she wants him to be real.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, he's sitting in a call center somewhere and he's
going home to his one kids every.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Night, and there's no way of tracking who what? How
have you ever spoken or texted or had any communication
with him?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
No, we haven't. We we've encouraged her since August last
year to send an engineer apparently to send a copy
of his passport and so forth. And he said that
he felt that that was unsafe to do so online.
How does an Australian go and work overseas without Yeah, somehow?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
And how is it safe to send two hundred thousand
dollars online?
Speaker 7 (02:28):
You know?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, he's happy with that.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So she's even gone to the degree of she's lost
all her settlement money, she's taken out a credit card
and she's advanced it all in cash. Yeah, and she's
now in an absolutely horrific.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Situation but still believes in him.
Speaker 6 (02:47):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Oh, I mean, I don't even know what to say
to you, Jane, because unless she's willing to stop it,
she'll end up with nothing.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, it's already it's already at that point of she
has nothing. And you know, I've read all the messages
and you can see how a vulnerable person that has
low self esteem could be sucked in so easily because
they have an excuse for everything.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Jane, there was any way of us being able to
use our resources to prove to her that that guy
doesn't exist. Do you reckon she'd be up for it?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Look, she might be.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So. After talking with Jane about her sister in law Annie,
they had some discussions off air and it's happened over
a number of days. Eventually Annie agreed to come on
the show and share her story.
Speaker 8 (03:32):
My family suggested O heay wanted to go online, you know, vaiting,
and then I met this man. I didn't know at
first that he was not in the country. He told
me the next time. We got off the dating site
and went on to WhatsApp, and certain things had occurred,
like he dropped his phone, cameras didn't work, so we
(03:52):
couldn't FaceTime, couldn't see and then started, you know, for
him to finish his project. He needed assistance of money
to do this, so I sent money.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
How much money Annie?
Speaker 8 (04:06):
Overall? Around two hundred thousand k oh?
Speaker 4 (04:10):
My goodness. Okay, any where was he? Did you you
said he wasn't in Australia You thought he was in
the beginning. Did you find out where he ended up
was living.
Speaker 8 (04:19):
He's in South Africa, kun working as an electrical engineer
on a project. Every time he needed to have more money,
there was another issue and he was trying to go
to his family, but he had already depleted there apparently,
And so I actually got a credit card and kept
increasing that to help.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Had you ever seen him at this point? Had you
ever visually laid eyes on him only once.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
I had a video chat with him, regular face to FaceTime. No,
nothing like that at all on.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
The video chat.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Annie, So you did talk to the man who and
he was how he had earlier described himself.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
Yeah, and we'll speak every morning and afternoon generally because
of the time difference, and we'd talk for quite a while.
I'll talk about everything, you know, all things that we'd
have in common, which was quite a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Okay, hey Jane here of course you're here. Sorry, how
have you been listening in? So has a Swedish accent
and said he was South African.
Speaker 8 (05:21):
No, no, No, he's Australian.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Oh, said he's Australian Redcliffe.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
He's Australian from Redcliffe, but he lives in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And did he explain the Swedish accent?
Speaker 8 (05:31):
He came from Sweden.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
He came from Sweden before Redcliffe and then Africa.
Speaker 8 (05:36):
Yeah, he moved over here with his wife and his
wife had passed away five years ago.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
So okay, Annie, how long have you been dealing with
him for?
Speaker 8 (05:46):
Since August last year?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Can I ask you, mate, what do you think is
happening here?
Speaker 8 (05:52):
I don't know I'd like an answer. I feel stupid,
I feel foolish, but it's kind of got a glimmer
of hope.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
That I know, hang on, hang on. So you feel
stupid in terms of believing in him? Yeah, And what's
the glimmer of hope.
Speaker 9 (06:08):
In believing in him or that you think.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
He may well still be the person that he says
he is?
Speaker 8 (06:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Annie, why have you then given your phone to Jane?
Speaker 8 (06:19):
Because Jane's protecting me, not wanting me to invest anymore
money because I had lies, but I hadn't given all
this money, and it got deeper and deeper, and I
got short term lines and then it got worse and
I borrowed money from my mum.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
And lying about that, Annie, you've got nothing left? Is
that what you're saying?
Speaker 7 (06:44):
I have nothing left?
Speaker 8 (06:45):
My tax free friend from last year, my bonus, my life,
my divorced dolment, everything's gone.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Annie. Are you willing for us to we have access
to a PI a great guy called Dave who's done
a lot of' what worked for us in the past
and is incredibly successful at what he does. Are you
willing for us to tell him your story and get
some answers.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
For you, I would really like some answers.
Speaker 7 (07:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So after hearing Annie's story, she was still in a
pretty fragile condition at that stage, still believing that this
cat Fisher was telling the truth and that he was
eventually going to come home and they were going to
move into their place together in Redcliffe. And so we
set our PI Dave on the case. And this is
the moment that p I Dave gets to hear the
story and understand what he's actually looking for.
Speaker 10 (07:36):
Look, there's a couple of avenues that I can look down.
You know, these people are professionals and what they do
and that's the hardest thing. They've done this numerous times before,
so they are very good at covering their trucks. But look,
let's see what we can uncover.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
A Okay, so how long do you think it'll take
you and what sort of stuff will you do? Because
it's in South Africa or do you think it's not
in South Africa?
Speaker 10 (07:56):
Look, if I was a betting man, I'd say that
the person would not be in South Africa. But I've
got a few details there that we can start. Obviously,
you know, he's alleging that he is from Redcliff, let's
follow that line and see if there is any sort
of trail that links him back to that Red Cliff
area or the Risbone era anyway, and see if his story,
you know, initially starts to have some resemblance of truth.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Okay, well, PI Dave, go to it. Do whatever it
is you have to do. How long do you, yeah,
go get him? How long do you think it'll take
you look.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Give us a couple of days.
Speaker 10 (08:27):
We'll chase a few of these leads and see.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Where that takes us.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So, now that PI Dave has had a small amount
of time I think it was only twenty four hours,
he needed to discover what he could about this man.
He was given, obviously details from any given his name, given,
some of the bank accounts, money was sent to the
address where he was supposed to be living at some
stage in Redcliffe. So PI Dave went and did some investigation,
(08:53):
not just over the phone, not just on Google, but
he actually went to the locations.
Speaker 10 (08:58):
I've conducted just computer based searches from the details that
you gave me of this gentleman's name and address. There's
absolutely no record of this man anywhere on any databases
that we have access to. There is no electronic footprint
of him at all, which means he's never owned any property,
never rented anywhere, has no licenses, no vehicles.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
How common is that? I mean, that's almost impossible, isn't it.
Speaker 10 (09:23):
It's very uncommon. Most people have some footprint somewhere. For
someone to have absolutely no information or data on them
is nearly.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Impossible these days.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
So I'd be suggesting that it's an absolute fake name.
So this person is using and a fake person in himself.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
This is not great news for any First up, you're
right there, yeah.
Speaker 8 (09:46):
On, I thought I was prepared for the word, but
to know.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
That's not good?
Speaker 5 (09:51):
What about the leads for address Redcliff and places to
mention like that?
Speaker 10 (09:56):
As you recall, And he was able to provide me
with the address. Gentleman said that he owned and had
lived there for a number of years. I've attended on
that address and spoken with the occupants of that particular
unit and that unit complex. They've lived there for four years,
and they have never heard of this male person, nor
(10:17):
have they ever seen this male person from the photos
that I had shown them. Further to that, I also
was and then able to speak with the real estate
agents that had managed this complex for a number of years,
and again they'd never heard of this male person, nor
again have they seen any persons depicted, you know, in
the photos that I was able to show them. The
(10:38):
actual complex itself is a smaller complex of about eight units.
I've spoken to each and every person of that unit complex.
Again they've never heard of any such person existing as
owning a unit, and also they've never seen anyone by
the photographs that I've shown them. So all in all,
all the inquiries that this person is fake is fictitious.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So having discovered that our catfisher was not who he
said he was, it was indeed a catfisher, PI Dave
then went to trace the money. Over two hundred thousand
dollars had been sent from Annie, some of it it
looks like, were sent in Australia. So PI Dave went hunting.
Speaker 10 (11:19):
So when I spoke with Annie, she was able to
provide me with some banking details of where she deposited
some money. And if you remember the story from Annie,
this person where she deposited the money was supposedly the
finance broker of the said cat fisher. So I was
able to do some inquiries about this bank account, which
(11:40):
led me to an address in Ipswich. Yes, I attended
how did Ipswich and spoke to a female that was
the same person as Annie had transferred about fifty thousand
dollars was the amount that she told me she transferred
into this account to an How are.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
You going here? Because you know we haven't really touched
base with you yet.
Speaker 9 (12:04):
I'm a bit flabagas that it's which seriously and she's real.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 8 (12:12):
Wow, tell us more.
Speaker 10 (12:15):
Yes, so I did speak with this lady, who was
a lovely lady. By the way, She's admitted that she's
received significant amounts of money from yourself Annie, and in
fact she was then sending this money to a male
person in South Africa.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You mean he's been lying to her as well.
Speaker 10 (12:38):
Well, that's where the story the thick plottins. I guess
you say. This lady admitted that she's never actually met
this male person to who she was sending the money.
In fact, she had met him on a dating shot.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
In fact, this lady, what was the story she was
told as to where that fifty gram was coming from?
Speaker 10 (12:58):
Well, she was told by this smile person that someone
would be making some deposits to her as a medium
person to assist him in his business dealings over in
South Africa. So basically, the story that she was told
had a number of similarities to what Annie had been
told you. She'd been told that he was working in
(13:20):
South Africa. He was a mechanical engineer. His business was struggling.
He needed money to get his business up off the ground.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
God, Dan, the money's gone overseas to him, haven't it.
Speaker 10 (13:31):
Well, I've got some good news for you.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Annie.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It's something, but it's not everything.
Speaker 10 (13:35):
But this lady, when she heard your story, was quite
quite devastated, quite distraught that you'd lost everything. And she
actually has twenty five thousand dollars left of the money
that she's caught willing to return to you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh man, I'm.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Speechless, card almost.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Oh my god, goodness, Annie.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
That's incredible but helpful.
Speaker 8 (14:06):
That's so wonderful.
Speaker 9 (14:08):
I can't believe that he's like double cast fishing.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Now it's all good and well to say, oh, yes,
I've got your money and I'm going to send it back.
Sometimes those promises can happen in the heat of the moment.
But we spoke to Annie about whether the money actually arrived.
Speaker 9 (14:24):
I had twenty four thousand dollars deposited into my bank
account yesterday.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
That's awesome. That is awesome. What okay, twenty four?
Speaker 8 (14:35):
Thankful?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
It was supposed to be twenty five, wasn't it. I
will take whatever?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah? OK, no, Amen, maybe it's just about Oh that's great.
Speaker 9 (14:46):
I am so unbelievably grateful.
Speaker 8 (14:49):
I feel blessed that has come my way.
Speaker 9 (14:52):
I feel lighter from that.
Speaker 11 (14:54):
When I saw my bank account, I nearly fallen over.
Speaker 8 (14:58):
It was incredible.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Earlier, when we'd spoken to PI Dave, the first thing
I could think was, Wow, can you get these two
people together? Can we get a lady who were going
to call Meghan who was also being catfish where.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Annie had been sending the money.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Could we get them to have a discussion and you know,
exchange stories see if they were indeed talking to the
same man.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And we got to do that.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Hello, Meighen, Hello, how are you going?
Speaker 12 (15:24):
Yeah? Ba, long on.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I mean, this has been huge for you to tell
us about what happened. When PI Dave contacted you.
Speaker 12 (15:32):
I just feel like an idiot. I was devastated. He
told me he loved me and he wanted to marry
me and go to make me the happiest woman in
the world.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
And Meghan, how long was that?
Speaker 12 (15:45):
A year or two?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And you totally understand what Annie's talking about that he
was really convincing.
Speaker 12 (15:52):
He is really convincing it, and I feel sorry for
the people out there that eat cons Next you.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Get the feeling then, Meghan that now that you found
out that he's a liar, that he'll just look for
another revenue stream.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
He'll move on to someone else.
Speaker 12 (16:05):
Yeah, I feel so bad.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Did you lose money to him?
Speaker 12 (16:10):
About twenty thousand?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
When Annie first transferred money into your account.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
The story was that he.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Needed the money and was going to have someone send
it to him and then you would have to on
send it. But you didn't send the full fifty thousand.
He would have been putting you under extreme pressure to
send it all.
Speaker 12 (16:27):
He was threatening me and once the money went into
my account and if I didn't send it, he was
going to get people to come to my house.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
So why didn't you send the whole amount?
Speaker 12 (16:39):
Because the person come to my house and told me
what was going on, so I stopped it.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Wow, So it was timing.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, so if PI David come a few days later.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It might have been too late.
Speaker 12 (16:50):
I'm not coping well at all because he calmed me
to do something that was bad and.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
He what it'd like to hear Megan's voice after.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
All this time.
Speaker 8 (16:58):
Firstly, let me just say thank you. Honestly you have
helped me, like I'm totally grateful. But to hear that
it's threatening you.
Speaker 12 (17:09):
Now I have to go and block my count because
he's got someone to go and take the money out
of my count because he doesn't know that it's not there.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And does he know where you live?
Speaker 12 (17:20):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Okay, so he can't come again, you know.
Speaker 12 (17:24):
Switch, But that's it.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
This man is a liar. There's nothing about what this
man says, both good and bad, that is true. And
this man's taken twenty thousand dollars of your hard earned cash.
Have you got people around you that can help you?
Speaker 12 (17:38):
My children?
Speaker 9 (17:39):
Have you told them?
Speaker 12 (17:41):
My son? Yeah? My daughter know, because I want to
tell her in person. I haven't seen that.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
We can offer you some support with a counselor. We've
got the best counselor ever, called Heidi from Heidi's Counseling Service.
If that would assist you because this is not your fault.
You've done nothing wrong. In fact, what you've done is
help Dannie get back on her feet.
Speaker 12 (18:03):
I still man because I feel like I should be
painted some of that fact.
Speaker 8 (18:08):
No, no, no, no, don't don't feel like that. Please, Honestly, Megan,
what has happened is you have stopped a lifeline of
finances going through to him, okay, and that is going
to annoy him, which is great.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Along the way with this cat fishing story, even though
we had some great news that were able to get
some of the money back to Annie, and that was
really just from the goodness of Megan's heart. You know,
she was under no legal compulsion to do that. But
one of the things is a real feeling of frustration,
like how do you get these people? How do you
find out who they are? And then if you do
find out, what can you do about it? So we
(18:50):
brought the police in, who deal with this a lot
more than we would have thought. Detective Senior Constable from
the Financial and Cyber Crime Group Graham joins.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Us Gram, You've had exactly what's been going on.
Speaker 13 (19:01):
What do you think this is a crime that's become
really prevalent with the world of online dating and social media, catfishing, lying, deception, whatever.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
The thing about this particular scenario, and I guess we
hear it a lot. And my perception of catfishing is
the problem is that these women are giving money.
Speaker 13 (19:20):
What do we do do You'll have people listening today
and been listening over the last couple of days. It's
some stage in the next twelve or eight in months,
if they're on the dating apps, there's a fairly good
chance that they are going to be approached by something similar,
and all the red flags you've been discussing will sit
in the background of the mind and then they'll suddenly
leap forward and say, hang on, there's something on the
radio about this. I have to back off and think.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Okay, well give us those red flags, because you have
written a book about this, and they're really clear.
Speaker 13 (19:46):
The red flags are fraud. If they want to identify
what you are looking for, what is the vulnerability you
are looking for, and they will provide the solution. So
online dating its loneliness and looking for love, that's fine,
but they will use a technique called mirroring. They will
look at your profile, who you are, what's your life journey,
(20:08):
where you are at the moment, and what you are
looking for, and they will create a profile which reflects
very similar to what you are looking for.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Okay, so that's number one.
Speaker 13 (20:17):
Number two anything where you cannot meet Most of these
people are overseas. I cannot physically meet you because in
most circumstances, if you're building that relationship, well let's meet
a coffee in a very open place where it's safe
for everyone. But they don't want to do that because
they cannot present themselves, so they say, I'm overseas and
by the way, my webcam doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Yeah, but they're also love bombing them like crazy, surely
because there must be other stuff going on psychologically where
they're making this person feel safe and potentially in love.
Speaker 13 (20:48):
Very powerful emotion. We've had cyber criminals we've investigated overseas
where they have actually had academic journals on the psychology
of loneliness, where they have actually researched it very extensive,
so they know the emotional vulnerabilities of human beings. These
crimes also are not a one to one relationship, one
offender against one victim. We've dealt with some before. You've
(21:09):
had ten to fifteen people all part of a syndicate
targeting one individual and playing different roles, and then they
will cross reference and corroborate each other and fill in
the gaps and story.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
So you've got.
Speaker 13 (21:20):
Fifteen to one. What chance has that particular person got
to defend themselves? And there was a relationship for a
very very aggressive.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
At which point all that in terms of your unit,
did they first break the law?
Speaker 13 (21:32):
Well, they're preparing to commit a crime and they're doing
the research. But when they start lying and deceiving to
obtain money, you're really seriously stepping over. Before that, it
depends on circumstances and legal opinions. But once they say
I need money for this reason, it's a pure lie.
They've crossed their boundary.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
So that's number four.
Speaker 13 (21:49):
If they ask for money, Yeah, you're in you're rearly
need flat fort.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Sot Graham with any how long will this take? Do
you reckon? Is it months? Is she just got to
get on with your life.
Speaker 13 (21:59):
The process is reported through cyber dot gov dot AU
and then it gets triaged and it gets referred onwards
being overseas, that would be referred to some stage to
the AFP for referral overseas.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So now that Annie's got this newfound confidence, now that
she knows that she has been catfish, but it's kind
of in a position of power because she knows that he's.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
A liar and he doesn't know that she knows.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Annie was ready to take it up a notch and
offered to record a conversation with him on her phone
and see if she could catch him out. So this
is the moment you finally get to hear this guy
and keep an ear out because his story to Annie
is that he's from Sweden. He was Swedish born, moved
to Redcliffe, Australia, was there for many years before heading
to South Africa for work. So have listened to this
(22:43):
accent and see if any of that sounds right to you.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Yeah, going, okay, happen to your lives. I had to
go to a hospital because my mental health wasn't great.
Speaker 14 (22:57):
What issue is that TV you have been on you
because you come from a two weeks now.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
Yeah, I had to go back into hospital to get
my meds and everything sorted out so I can function
because I'm not functioning very well and I feel the
pressure that you're not going to be coming home and
I am struggling to do all the payments and everything,
and it just got to me and I broke.
Speaker 14 (23:25):
How did you get in press from are You're just
busy listening to what people are telling you. That's what
needs you to.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
Feel like that.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
No empathy, straight empathy, straight into turning it around and
saying it's other people talking, it's not me.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Trying to isolate it by doing that.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Ready, and keep in mind that she's been told he's
Swedish and has lived in Brisbane.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Redcliffe for more places. Yes, so the conversation continues.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
No empathy, but he's still interested in the cash.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
So how much money do you need now to come home?
Speaker 14 (24:00):
I get five grande Now everything is done, Okay, I
would never ask for any money.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
What's that funny.
Speaker 14 (24:09):
Oh Carney from the Minister of Justice. The money was
not enough. The documents were a lot because I needed
to update everything and get our stamps. Okay, I told
you that. The calculated I'm I'm gonna say you are
when I send you the documents for my contract, You're
(24:31):
going to see how much that is in solftware. The calculate.
They do it by percentage. They will use the calculat
and calculate her mother was involved, and then has you
Okay when you send me, when I use it for
the world you sent it for, I don't use it
for something stup because I'm not an idiot.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
But it fine.
Speaker 14 (24:48):
I know why you're feeling like this. You assisted me
with a lot of money. You're scared of losing your money,
which you are not going to lose. But it's all right.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Here, all the honeys and babies like he never uses
a name because he doesn't even remember it, probably because
he's got so many people on the guy.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And maybe if that's you're concerned about someone who you
think is been catfish, get them to simply ask what's
my name?
Speaker 12 (25:13):
Just quickly?
Speaker 8 (25:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 12 (25:14):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And he goes on now pretending to be a good guy.
Speaker 14 (25:19):
When I said to you that I'm going to pay
you back your money, I told you that my mom
didn't raise me to play around with people's feelings or
do it away with your money. I'm going to pay
you every cent to you assisted me with. Then you
know that I was never lied to you. So what
is your christian in and all of that, I'm not
lying to you, Okay, So.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
He has a mom.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I wouldn't suspect.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Us, but it does not make you angry like just
listening to it. I just I'm so annoyed.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, the manipulation and waite you here when Annie actually
starts pressing.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
You don't have a camera on that computer and it's.
Speaker 14 (25:57):
An old school test stuff. Have you forgotten the day
you asked me this.
Speaker 15 (26:01):
I know you think that I would be able to
get away, but seems such a big company not to
have basic technology.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
It's crazy.
Speaker 14 (26:13):
He managers and the officials might have, but when I'm
using doesn't have. Maybe this is understandable. Stop making a
mountain out of a mole hill.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Oh please, okay, well, you know it's.
Speaker 14 (26:25):
Very wrong for you to speak like that. It's it's
it's not surprise.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
I think, for my sanity and everything, we're just not
going to have to be in contact with each other anymore.
Speaker 15 (26:35):
And I'm sick.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
All right.
Speaker 14 (26:37):
Then when when I'm sorted out, it's all right. He
had what he said. He gave me money because I
needed to sort my life out and my business and
then I'm going to pay you back. But you just
made your points clear, and you told me your feelings,
your heart and all take care of yourself. Just but
you know that well, you know, problem to your health.
(27:01):
It's fine talk.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
You probably noticed throughout the duration of this podcast the
change in Andie's voice from being so sullen and so
sad and so desperate to all of a sudden being
in this position of power enlightenment. She knew what was
going on. She was feeling better about herself. We spoke
to any about how that felt.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
That was fun. Feel you on the back foot. And
the thing is, he contacted me in this morning just
by text, kicking in, how are you you know? They
had to sleep, all that usual generic crab. So I've
answered him, so I'm waiting for him to ask because
(27:50):
the last conversation was he's wanting another five thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
So when he asks that, what are you going to say?
Speaker 8 (27:57):
I thank.
Speaker 9 (28:00):
It.
Speaker 8 (28:01):
I know the internet is terrible, but I haven't received
the contract you said you'll send me, so must be
stuck somewhere because you know.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
So many power over there, the same technical issues that
you're having for the last year.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Yes, it happens, and it was he did he sound
different to the other times you've spoken to him.
Speaker 8 (28:22):
He was a bit more defensive, definitely.
Speaker 9 (28:26):
I think he was taking umbrage at it that I
was asking him more questions when he came back that
he worked. It's touch a large company, and I'm questioning
on why can't you just sit a webcam.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
You're seeing it with different eyes, aren't you.
Speaker 11 (28:42):
Oh yeah, how generic the answers are, and how he
uses his language so he doesn't need to remember your
name because you'll call you babe.
Speaker 7 (28:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
The way you're going and you're operating so well on
that call, I think p I Dave might have some
casual work for you.
Speaker 8 (29:01):
Wow, I'm open to that.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
You've got to be proud of yourself. You have turned
this around. You have absolutely now starting to take the
power back and the amount of people you are helping,
just by proving that you can still hold your head
up even though you have been scammed and you know
you've been scammed. What a difference, mate, What a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
So, after losing over two hundred thousand dollars, one little
bit of good news was getting twenty four thousand dollars back.
None of us expected that and it was a matter
of days for Anie getting that money back. For us
as a radio station, and if you listen to the
podcast outside of knowing who we are where Kiss ninety
seven to three.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
We are a breakfast show.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Robin Terry and I do a breakfast show in Brisbane,
Australia and one of the big shows in Australia when
it comes to chasing down criminals. Knocking on doors is
the current affair and Chris Allen, who's a local reporter.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Also based in Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
We ask Chris on the show to give him the
story and see if they want to take it any further.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
ACA has bigger budgets, tougher people and more resources than
we do, and we figured if there was anyone that
could catch them, maybe you guys would be interested in
picking up the story.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, look, we'd love to. It is extraordinary and we
have done a couple similar to this in the past
where people have been defrauded of a huge amounts of
money and it's so sad because once it leaves the country,
it's you know, even the police can't help them get
it back, and it's just so sad for those people
that they've been misled in the worst possible way.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Can I tell you, Chris, there's another aspect to this
it's clear that there are many, many, many women you know,
and men being deforded this way in this town. And
even the few who've called into us, you know, and
we've a kound of a story, they're still not willing
to accept that the person they're on the line too
is not the real deal.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Yes, I know, it's extraordinary, isn't it. Even when you
and I may listen to them and think, no, this
isn't an American marine. You're talking to someone in Nigeria.
I don't know. I think the need, you know, for
that kind of company and what these people are trying
to flog is so great that they just get blinkers.
They don't see it.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
Well, haven't listened to this guy? And actually we have
a little bit of Ani who recorder an interaction with him.
So if you're hearing Swedish engineer, I'm going to you that.
Speaker 15 (31:22):
I'm going to pay you back your money.
Speaker 14 (31:24):
I told you that my mom did e raise me
to play around with people's feelings or do it away
with your money. I'm going to pay you every cent
you assisted me. Then you know that I was never
lied to you. So it is your Christian and I
love that I'm not lying to you, Okay.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah, have you ever traced someone down, say in Africa
or Nigeria? I mean, you've done these stories before. Have
you ever been able to get close?
Speaker 7 (31:53):
Look? I personally haven't to be to be honest here,
but I have seen it done on occasions they have
raided is because they usually operate out of call centers
with teams and you know, it's a group effort. But
the police are getting better and better at isolating them.
So I'm glad to hear that the women you have
spoken to have contacted police as well, and we'd be
(32:16):
happy to talk to them and see what we can do,
because once they know usually the jigg is up, they'll
stop annoying these people. But you know that of course
they've already done a huge amount of damage. But no,
we would love to I'd love to go and kick
a door down and yeah, but you know, and I
dare say if if we could establish exactly where they
(32:37):
were and what they're up to, we'd be up for that.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
So that's it for now with our cat fishing story.
Hopefully we will have an update. Hopefully there's more after
a current affair get their teeth into it. If this
is something that sounds like it might be close to
home for you. Perhaps you've got a family member who's
been catfished, talk to them about reporting cyber and you
can do that through cyber dot gov dot are You
also one three hundred number available on the website if
(33:02):
you want to Google it, and we'll catch you next time,
hopefully and happier circumstances.
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