Are Christmas Bonuses Just a Festive Myth?

You’ve survived the year, and secretly dreaming of a little extra something in your paycheck. But then—no Christmas bonus in sight. Is it a sign you’re undervalued at work, or just the way things are these days? This week, the V, Jess and Bec dive into the great Christmas bonus debate: are they a must-have to feel appreciated, or just a festive myth.

We’re also dishing out some festive cheer with budget-friendly hacks to save on decorations and gifts—because who knew tinsel could cost so much?! Plus, we’ve got your back for those awkward holiday chats, like when your mates side-eye your investment choices. Hit play for some laughs, life lessons, and a whole lot of holiday spirit as we help you stay merry and money-smart this season. 

Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.

The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs.  Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708,  AFSL - 451289.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Yr
the Order Kerni Whaltbury and a waddery woman. And before
we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming

(00:22):
through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
today and lasting impact for tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
She's on the Money, She's on the Money.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money the pod. Guys,
that makes personal finance fun, especially on Fridays. It is
our favorite day of the week because I get to
get my little team together. It celebrate you, our incredible
Shees on the Money community. It's just greachy. You've got
some favorite money wins to share from the community. Miss
beck say ed you better have some festive broke tips

(01:19):
for us. And we're going to be helping to answer
a juicy money dilemma this week. It's all about what
do you do when your friends question the ethics of
your investments and something that you slid into our dms
about Christmas bonuses the festive norm or just wish for
thinking it is.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
The last Friday before Christmas.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
I love Christmas, such a coziness, such a magical energy
in the air, the joy, and you can like everything
spells different, everything looks it. Really it feels different. It's
just such a nice I'd like this. I really like.
It's arguably better than Christmas Day lead up anticipation.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's like the decorating. I don't know, I feel like
it becomes lots about like friends and family, and like,
I don't like the thing. This is me being like
maybe a little bit of a grinch. No, I don't
want to catch up with you before Christmas. If you've
only just worked out that we haven't seen each other
in six plus months, being like, oh my god, have
you got time before Christmas? I don't know. I actually don't, Sorry,

(02:25):
I don't. It was already six months since you and
I have seen each other, and if it was the
first six months of the year, you would have let
it go another six months so we can catch up
in January or February. Is that cool?

Speaker 5 (02:36):
Sure? Sure, sure, anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
There, I totally get it.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
But like, I know, calendar's bursting busy.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I'm so tired. Jess and I have been working our
butts off in the lead up to like going on
Christmas break, Like, I just I don't have time. I
would love to have drinks. Can you just invite me
to drinks? Like on a normal Wednesday? Is that okay?
Any other Wednesday, normal Wednesday drinks? Let's let's normalize that.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
I completely agree.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
But what's your favorite festive treat? Like, what are you
making sure you're eating next week?

Speaker 5 (03:09):
You go first?

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yes, I love a gingerbread. Oh have you made gingerbread?

Speaker 6 (03:14):
I have, and I do so I do gingerbread with
royal icing piped on it. So it's kind of like
a realizing ginger they're so good gingerbread.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, we know you do. We basically canceled Jessica last Christmas, right, so, like,
but she's on the money. Girls, We were like, will
you bit artsy crafty? So we decided that we're all
going to come to my house and we're going to
make gingerbread houses. But Beck, we got the like pre
made gingerbread houses. You just had to decorate them, and
it kind of became like a competition of everyone decorating there.
Of course there's the best, right, and so like I'm

(03:46):
there messing it up. I think a few ginger Yeah,
thank you, she doesn't mean that. I think a few
people's gingerbread houses fell over before we even began.

Speaker 5 (03:56):
Structural integrity is not there exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Your archite tests. Like the expectations were too high. I
think someone made like a construction site out of their
so they were like, this is what I was to do.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
Yeah, like after the demolition, Yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Was like it's demo, like it's in right, like haha. Anyway,
Jess was sitting over in the corner like carefully piping
on her bloody structuring. Yeah, like perfect flowers of course.
Literally everything was symmetrical, and we were just like, cool,
we'll just see ourselves out. Ours look literally like a
dog's breakfast literally, and then Jesses looks like a little

(04:31):
model house. So guess what we didn't do this year?
No gingerbread house, but if you're doing one with your.

Speaker 6 (04:37):
Friends, because we did a gingerbread we do a gingerbread
house with our friends, I say, we add the structural
integrity test you.

Speaker 5 (04:45):
Oh yeah, you you've seen the TikTok.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
That's why they were all construction sites, because jess shook
all of our bloody houses.

Speaker 5 (04:53):
Is it earthquake proof?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Is it?

Speaker 6 (04:55):
You literally just get everyone around the table, you go, oh,
who's his the cutest, whatever, who's is the strongest. You
do a little on the table, and you see, it's
very fine.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
I would houses fell down except for Jessica.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
This is great. I'm actually gonna write this down. It's
really it's.

Speaker 6 (05:09):
Okay because then if you're if creativity is not your thing,
you just you go for solid bills.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yes you know, and yes the rest of our team
had neither, and that's okay too. We were there and
we showed up, and that is all that.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
Counts, all the count It's good to know there are
several different categories that you can wear, multiple judging what's
your favorite treat? Okay, so I know this is a
year round tree. You can have this whenever you want.
But there's something so like cozy about the nutmeggie, cinnamony,
cardamom me. Are you going to say I'm not? I'm
saying custard tar Okay, I.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Was about to be.

Speaker 5 (05:45):
Likened, like what do you do with it?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's eggs? Like you guys are.

Speaker 5 (05:51):
Insane, Yeah, but like what do you put where do
you put it?

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Like what is it in your mouth? Like a drink
to drink it is a legitimate drink from.

Speaker 5 (05:58):
The carton, like you like milk and you just drink it.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
You can or you can make it. I remember I
went to a Christmas party one year. It was like
I was in high school and I went to this
girl's house and she made eggnog and they were like
handing it around. Jes don't give me that place. I
didn't know what it was. And it looked cute, looks
like a yeah, and she had these really cute glass
tea cups, and I think it was because her family
did eggnog all the time, and it's like the way

(06:25):
you do it. Anyway, she gives me this thing and
I thought it was cute, and it smells like a
custard tart, right like that smelled like that smell so delicious,
And I drank it and I liked it. I did it,
did Yeah, have you tried it? It's actually it's like
runny custard like it's actually really nice until you realize
that the eggs are raw. Yeah, everything about it just
puts me unacceptable. But if you didn't know, and I

(06:46):
handed you a cute little milkshake in a really cute
glass tea cup, you're can drink it. You gotta have
raw egg I imagine I'm unacceptable.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
Not on that boat.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I'm gonna be honest unacceptable. It's your favorite treaty obviously
Christmas crack. Actually they're the Christmas crack, which is like
my favorite sweet treat. But for me, there's two things
that make Christmas. Sorry, can I say three things that
make Christmas? Christmas? Okay? So it's fresh cherries, so like
a big bowl of like fresh cherries. I am very lucky.

(07:18):
I grew up on the morning to Meninsula and there's
lots of cherry farms around, and so we would go
to a cherry farm when we're younger and get like
the box of cherries, and so that always reminds me
of Christmas. And for some reason, maybe I don't know
when cherry season is, but like only buy cherries at Christmas.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
I was gonna say it is anyone like cherries.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Cherry cherries, so like it's like a Christmas it is
a Christmas treat. Yeah, like they're the fruity treat. Fresh mangos, yeah,
fresh fresh Christmas. And prawns, yeah, big king prawns, Like
you have to shell them yourselves. One year, Mum and
I shelled all of the prawns before Christmas for everybody

(08:01):
because we were like, oh, we're so nice, we can
to shell them all. Yeah, and then like next day
you can just have them with a thousand island dressing.
It has to be like a thousand island dressing anyway.
Ten out of ten prawns, cherries, I'm sold for Christmas
and a glass of champagne.

Speaker 5 (08:16):
Such an uzzy Christmas thing. I love it.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Oh, I don't want winter Christmas, like, don't get me wrong,
the idea. And like we had a friends giving recently
and I did roast turkey, which, by the way, I
think I slayed it. Like I think I did a
really good job because I think turkey is hard to
cook because it goes really dry. But what I did
was basically buff the thing in butter. Yeah, so that's

(08:39):
probably why it tasted good. But turkey's not that good
the reason our turkey. Yess, I'm you know, I'm not
offended if you were like me, turkey was so gay. Yeah,
yeah it was well seasoned, like I had lots of seasoning,
lots of spices, lots of butter and salt and pepper
and all of that, and I cooked it in chicken
stock to make sure it was extra delicious. But turkey
is not that good.

Speaker 5 (08:59):
Yeah, auzsy of us.

Speaker 6 (09:01):
When we do our friends like our friend Christmas friends mess,
we call it, we do just a Wollezer Coal's roast chicken.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
And call it a day.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Like it's so much easier, and to be honest, it's
really cost effective.

Speaker 6 (09:17):
One you don't because the toat like you had, you
went all in, you'd like a big ass like the
time and the space.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's a little to impress you to it did a
great job. Yeah, and then everyone got to take home
leftovers and that was kind of wholesome. But I will
say that like a roast chicken on Christmas, you genius.
You know what you could do? You could pull it
out and put it like on a cute tray, or
you could like pull it out of the bag, break
it up like get some kitchen scissors, break it up
like get the drumsticks and stuff and put them on

(09:43):
a really nice plate reheated in the oven with some
foil over the top of it and maybe like put
some you could put water over the top of it
to keep it moist, or like some stock and maybe
some herbs or something that you you know, got's gonna
deliberated and it would literally perfume your house. Yes, like
you've done a roast chok on your own.

Speaker 5 (10:01):
You guys like a bubble and squeak.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Oh, I love a bubble and squeak Christmas Christmas leftovers. Yeah,
that's why you always have to do extra potato exactly
will bubble and squeak? My dad does the best bubbleak.

Speaker 5 (10:14):
Yeah, it's just a big mash up of everything that's
left over from Christmas lunch. I'm actually shocked.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
To the core. What are you doing? Bubble and squeak
traditionally is re fried potatoes with whatever veggies or like
roast meats that you've got, but like potatoes would be
the core of it. And you kind of either use
mashed potatoes like that's the elite, or like whole potatoes,
but you like crush them a little bit and then
put them together in like little patties and then fry
them on the frying pan, and you would often have

(10:38):
them for breakfast the next morning after like Christmas or
after some big event where you have lots of like
roast leftovers with maybe like poachy eggs on the top.
O the egg makes because it's a runny egg over
the top. Yeah, that's a great idea. Also, Cuby Mayo, Ah,
Cuby Mayo or anything. Five stars, five stars, five stars.

(11:02):
Speaking of five stars, Miss jessic Ricci, would you like
to hear a five star review that we got this week?

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (11:08):
Absolutely, that's credible.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
What about you?

Speaker 5 (11:12):
Beck to you in yes, if it's okay.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
I loved this one. This one's from Carly. She gave
us a five star review and it said changed the game.
So cute. Felt so behind in my money journey before
finding this podcast. The girls are the best money cheerleaders.
Jess and Beck make me feel not so alone when
it comes to finance. That's so cute.

Speaker 5 (11:34):
That's really sweet.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's like that I get to read it out and
then you guys get the compliments.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
I'm not gonna lie. I love it when someone says
my name about it. It's so cute cheerleaders. That's so fun.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
That's sweet, which is my favorite thing ever. But let's
get into it, Miss Jessici last one before Christmas comes.
What money, wins and confessions have you got from the
group we rity this week?

Speaker 6 (12:01):
I'm going I start off with one from Allison, who
said she bought a tool from Buddings last week. It
was a Christmas present. Five days later it went on
a deal where you got a free battery and charger
with the purchase of the tool. The battery and the
charger are worth four hundred bucks. What she's like, Normally
I'd take the hit, but four hundred dollars of value
is too much to and.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Also that like bumps up, the present makes it really good.

Speaker 6 (12:24):
She caught up Buddings and they were happy to let
her just return it and rebuy it so she could
get the thing that she wanted. She said, A huge
win for me and my gift recipient. And never be
afraid to ask your kind retail peeps.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
That's so great.

Speaker 6 (12:35):
Be kind to the retail peeps. So someone who has
done Christmas me nice?

Speaker 5 (12:41):
Why are people so rude? I know it's so weird. Okay,
what are you angry? At them for.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Also, it says so much more about you than it
does the staff member, even if that staff member is
completely incompetent. I get it. But if you then treat
someone like trash babe, that's on you. I don't care
what they did. If you can't keep your call, if
you can't get your stuff together, looks like you need
some therapy.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
That's true. Absolutely.

Speaker 6 (13:06):
Next, I've got a money in from Elisa who said
she found a handbag with all of the stuff in
it in a shopping center car park. Both the center
management and the police station were closed, so she took
it home and waited for the phone, which was inside,
to ring. Two hours later, a call came through from
this handbag. It was someone's son. He picked up the
bag and its contents, and he gave her one hundred

(13:26):
dollars for her honesty. I thought it was really sweet,
and as someone who has left there purse somewhere before.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Brook did that literally a couple of weeks ago from
our team, she left her whole handbag on the floor
at a restaurant. She went back and she was like, oh,
it was fine. I'm like, how are you so chill
about this? Like I'd be losing my mind. I feel good,
wholesome people. I was at office works the other day actually,
and I found a phone just like I was like
peruising the aisles and there was just an iPhone sitting there.

(13:53):
And it's that awkward. Okay, I can see an iPhone.
I can see it somebody's it's got like a cover
on it. If I pick this up and I walk
it to like the front, is the owner of it
going to see me with it and think I'm stealing it?

Speaker 5 (14:06):
I know, I get so scared of that too.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
You.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
I'm like, I'm trying to do the right thing here,
Like I'm not going to steal someone's iPhone. I've just
found it on a shelf. But I also know I'm
not going to leave it on the shelf because not
everyone is honest. So I'm like, I'm going to take
this to the front. So I do. I don't know
if other people do this, but I do this awkward
like swipe no, no, no, I like, pick it up,
but hold it. I'm not trying to like, I'm not
trying to put this in my pocket or hide this

(14:30):
from you. Ha ha ha ha, like and said, oh
that's mine. I did it the other day at the
swimming pool. I was at the pool and I just
come out of the family changing area and someone had
left their sunglasses in there, and I saw them and
picked them up and was like, when you see a
pair of sunglasses that are prescription sunglasses, you can immediately
tell that their prescription. And I was like, oh, someone's

(14:52):
going to be mad. So I picked them up and like,
I'm holding towels under my arm and like we carry
a basket and I'm holding the sunglasses and this woman
comes around the con she goes, they're mine, and I
was like, oh, yeah, I just found that, and I
felt like I was like, I know I've been called
out or something, but in reality, i'd pulled them out
to bring them to reception as I was leaving. Look,
I don't want you prescription sunglasses. So I like make
this awkward small chat and I'm like, oh, yeah, I

(15:13):
noticed that they were prescription ha ha ha. Like I
was gonna hand them and they would have been expensive,
and she's like looks at me. She's like, yeah, they
were expensive, And I'm thinking, do you think I'm stealing these?

Speaker 5 (15:22):
What are you going to do with prescription?

Speaker 2 (15:24):
We were also like, I wouldn't steal these totally. Oh anyway,
that just gave me a lot of anxiety. So then
when I found the phone, I'm like, here we go again.

Speaker 6 (15:32):
Yeah, over hand eating, it's the right thing to do.
We those of us who leave things places, appreciate all
your honest good things happened to good people. As from
our team says, I used that on an Instagram post
the other day. She's like, you copied me because it's
in her Instagram bio. But good things do happen to
good people.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
They do, absolutely Doogle bigger a men nest.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
What am I win?

Speaker 6 (15:54):
From Holly who said it's a non money money win
for me. I love this since I'm now on top
of my finances. Her brother, who used to be the
money was in the family and Holly was the money
mess and his girlfriend asked her to create a.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Budget for them. So she created a whole spreadsheet.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
And you know that with the cash flow system, And
she said, a year ago, I just never would have
been able to do that. That's really goody so cool
to be able to do it for someone else.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Be for real. They spreading the good word, the disciples.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
They're goings spreading the Shees on the Buddy Words. I
heard that colts worked really well for multi level marketing business,
and I thought, why reinvent the wheel? We too could
have a cult, but we were not very good at it.
So we're actually just like telling people that they can
do whatever they want with their financial freedom. We really
need to create a product to keep them in the cult.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
Yes you shot that one.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (16:45):
Next, I've got a money in from Emma, who said
it's her first time sharing a money in. She bought
a walking pad treadmill for her work from home at
desk and it was one hundred and twenty dollars on
Facebook Marketplace in normal retails for two hundred and thirty.
It was also her first time using Marketplace and she
said she's officially converted and bonus points it's pink and cute.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Oh how good that is?

Speaker 5 (17:07):
That is cute and mine's dying, so I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Look at the same So it's not going to cost
you one hundred and twenty dollars. That looks spinner does.

Speaker 6 (17:16):
The next time, money went Alexandra, who said money win.
The theme for my works Christmas party last week was errors,
so obviously I went in my money making error, dressed.

Speaker 5 (17:27):
As a million dollar bill. Nod.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
He thought that was going she dresses and actually quite
disappointed with this. Which era would you have gone?

Speaker 6 (17:36):
Us?

Speaker 2 (17:36):
What would I have gone?

Speaker 5 (17:37):
As I keep hearing error like the.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Sorry yeah Jessica, I'm thinking, like you know, like era
eraror oh yeah, you're not going to make that.

Speaker 6 (17:52):
Well, Alexandra went in her money making error. She dresses
a million dollar bill because girls trying to manifest and
low and behold. She won best Oh my god, right,
she won a certificate with a little fifty dollars voucher,
and she said her money making costume really did make
her money.

Speaker 5 (18:08):
That's actually so good.

Speaker 6 (18:10):
Peak of the winning costume, of course, she said, it's
bleary as hell. But this was when I was strutting
my stuff on stage.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
Look at her. What a queen.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Okay, I would have liked. You got to go find
the fan. Absolutely, you absolutely win. My husband actually went
to his work Christmas party last no, not last week,
a couple of weeks ago. Oh yeah, and he did
you see this on social media? Bits so funny. The
theme was legends. Yeah, so that was it, so you
could go as any legend you wanted. To and my
husband obviously wig and all dressed up as Raygun. Honestly,

(18:41):
the night before his Christmas party, we were on YouTube.
He was practicing the dance mooth. I love that, and
he looked great. Honestly, the wig looked very real. Thank you.
It was twelve dollars on Amazon.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
You great.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
He didn't come home with it, though.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Someone went home with a little potytail wig.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Someone.

Speaker 5 (18:59):
Do you want Lucky keep it?

Speaker 6 (19:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (19:01):
You don't want that one hanging around to you?

Speaker 1 (19:03):
No?

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 6 (19:04):
Lastly, this week, I've got a money win from Caitlin,
who said she purchased a one past subscription on Black Friday.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Don't even I did too?

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Well?

Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeh, I read this one because I sent it to you. Yeah,
and you said you got to do this.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
So sorry to Sideline there. So we clearly talk about
money wins on the podcast. Yes, we also just text
each other all week about money wins. Yes, like our
text I'm like, oh my god, did you see so Jess.
I'm not gonna spoil it, but did you see the
one past one? Did you see what you can get? Oh? One,
I'll explain, sure, we'll get there.

Speaker 6 (19:34):
Oh, let me read itait this's bit first and we'll
come back around. So Caitlyn said she purchased the one
Past subscription on Black Friday, which means it was fifty
percent off half price. She's used it twice since she
purchased it with two discounts, she said, So her Christmas
shop is officially done, parcels are on the way, and
she's already saved ten bucks.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
Using the one Pass in those two times.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
So good. And I think the annual membership was, like
was it forty dollars? Yeah, so it's forty dollars on sale,
but it was like eighty dollars full price to like
join one Pass, right, So one Pass this is not
sponsored by the way, but I'm about to talk about
it like it's an ad.

Speaker 5 (20:06):
Do I know someone at one Pass?

Speaker 2 (20:07):
I am here to sell this to you, right, Like
I think it's great. So one Pass is like the
rewards platform that the people who own Kmart and Bunnings
and office Works and like a whole heap of other
businesses own. So it's owned by West Farmers, right, So
they've created this rewards platform and they obviously want heaps

(20:28):
of people to join, So it's in collaboration with Flybys
who are in I want to say Cohoots with West Farmers,
so like it's like, oh, that's why you can get
Flybys points at literally all of those stores. Plus I
believe Coals, So that's a money when to begin with.
But when you sign up to one Pass, you get

(20:48):
free shipping on like your Camart purchases. There's like a
minimum price threshold, but it's not much, so you get
free shipping on your like Camart target, I believe price
line all of these purchases, right, which is money win.
And I've already made my money back from online purchases
because like how many times do you want to order
something on Kmart? But like I'm not paying ten dollars

(21:08):
for shipping lane Camar when the item was ten dollars,
Like that not happening free. And my favorite part because
I have decided that I am now in my points
hacking era. If I went to that costume party, just
I would have gone as a Flybys card. But you
get five times points whenever you're signed into one Pass,
so instead of just getting one.

Speaker 5 (21:27):
Point five ah and then those points eventually yeah, like
you can read times for the money off or use
them in the reward store, so like that's where I got.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Such a good deal and like five times points. It
makes no business sense, like in my head, like they're
losing money on this. But it's not even like a
promo when you join. It's just like if you're a
one past member, that's that's the bonus you get it.
It just happens every time. Oh my god. Okay, anyway,
one pass call me. I would love to talk to

(21:59):
you about working together in twenty twenty five. That's my pitch.
I could talk about it more, but you haven't paid.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
So that seems fair. Yeah, it's the sales still on.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
No, sorry, can't talk about it anymore. Can't. Sorry?

Speaker 3 (22:13):
The show?

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, call me Jess? Is that all it?

Speaker 5 (22:17):
Surance? I love that?

Speaker 2 (22:19):
All right?

Speaker 5 (22:19):
Beck?

Speaker 2 (22:20):
What if you got to bring to the table any
festive broke tip.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
I do have some festive broke tips, so I'd like
to say that all of these are festive. So first
I'm gonna go with one from Beck great name, who
says this will be applicable for any parents who have
heaps of toys for their kids, likely gifted by other
people or just ones you have lying around the house.
So when kids are young, they tend to gravitate towards
the same toys, and all of the toys get forgotten about.

(22:43):
My sister in law took the toys they've never played
with girls two and five and re wrapped them for
their birthday, and they don't remember because they're kids, and
they loved the toys and now they're playing with it
because honestly, they have so many toys. It reduces waste
and money, and I think it's really cool. I think
it's a great idea. If you do that for Christmases
for other kids, or if you Yeah, I feel like
if you've got if you've got kids yourself and you

(23:05):
have like and they're just not touching all these other toys,
they're not going to notice it. Low key genius, and
then you wrap them up you give them to other
kids in the family or friends or whatever.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I just think it's a great idea. One of grand
girlfriends for her kids first birthday. You know those ride
on cars, got in one of those.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
Cute.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
It was so cute. It was this like fake obviously
I'm Mercedes g Wagon, so cute. He cried because he
was one. He thought it was really scary. He didn't
like it, so they put it back in the box
and gave it to him when he turned to and
he loved it. That's so jo.

Speaker 5 (23:37):
I think that's so smart.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
It's so literally so smart. They were like, oh, we
thought he'd really like it, but he didn't, so we're
just going to give it to him next year.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, funny. We're really clever and it's
reducing waste, yeah, which I really like that. The next
one comes from Emma, and it does lead me into
my own but you'll see why. So Emma messaged me
to say that she saw some cute little houses that
came up and didn't buy them at the time. Then
on the weekend realized she could make them from polystyrene
foam that had come with a package that she had

(24:06):
bought just like random other package, so she'd used that.
She'd used the blocks and corners and glued them together
with a hot glue gun, and then for the real
broke tip, she got some misstint paint from Bunnings four
dolls for a sample, pot got some baking powder different
to buy carb about three dolls from Coals, added some
of the baking powder to the paint, which is which
is like some chemical reaction. Starrett looks like render exactly exactly.

(24:31):
And so basically she made these like little houses and
they look ceramic. I think she was going for She
did send us photos and she also sent us a
photo give me wreath that she'd made just literally from
going for a walk around the neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
So this is the wreath that's really cute.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
Do you want me?

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Can I put this anywhere?

Speaker 6 (24:53):
Can?

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, we'll put it in the Facebook group.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
And then the little houses those are really.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Very cute, so fun little DIY project.

Speaker 5 (25:05):
Absolutely, And why that leads me to my own broke
tip is it's very I feel like Christmas decorations. Of course,
gifts and stuff can be d I, but I'm speaking
decorations because I didn't realize how they just add up
because like you buy I don't know, like you buy
like a ten dollar like string of fairy lights here,

(25:25):
you buy like a four dollar pack of baballs here,
It's like it really starts adding up very quickly. Anyway,
I'm going to be doing a craft tonight with my
partner and her sister, and we're going to just be
like making ball balls from scratch.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Like that's fun.

Speaker 5 (25:40):
I did make one yesterday that was like a love
heart with like you know when you like put little
papers to make it look three d oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
just one of those little ballball just get like string.
I don't know how much string is, like five cents,
I don't know. I don't think.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
I don't just always it's anything this world still five cents,
I don't think. So what do we use? Five cents?

Speaker 5 (25:59):
Is for good question?

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Don't even buy lollies at the shop anymore.

Speaker 5 (26:02):
I know it's discussing what is this? They just go
into my money tin five cents one day, they'll be
thirty cents. Yeah, one day, but.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
It will never happen. I'm sorry, I don't know. I
don't have time to explain the concept of inflation, but
that won't happen. Sorry, bye.

Speaker 5 (26:20):
But anyway, even tinsel, you know, you get like long,
you just like cut it out.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's as unnecessarily expensive.

Speaker 5 (26:25):
It is why it gotta be so expensive.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
You could make pomp pom ones. Yeah, so cute.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
Arguably, like you know those little extraw cleaners that what
they call pipe cleaner. Sorry, make a star out of that.
I think the entire tree and also we're not looking
at it up close. We're just seeing the vibe of
the tree most of the time.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Sorry, the vibe of the tree is high because everything
on it was handmade, handmade exactly.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
Give you a couple more, please, please please.

Speaker 6 (26:49):
Paper chains are really cute. You cut them into like
the long and you loop them together. Could you do
any color and paper? Also, if you want to make
your own little ornaments, it's really good. You just do
look it up on the internet. But like flower water, salt,
like a basic kind of plato air dry clay texture,
roll it out cookie cutters and.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
Then you can paint them or you can. That's cute.
Also very cute because you.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Do like pet poor prince in love hearts Yes, also
really good. Yes.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
And if you have kids, I feel like it's a
fantastic way to get them to because I remember when
I was a kid, it's exciting thing the Christmas tree.
But it's also like after like an hour of meticulously
it's just like it can be boring.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
So it's exciting.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
If you tell the kids we're going to make them,
then I don't know, it's just it.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Does that and gets the kids to do the wrapping paper.
So she buys big rolls of Butcher's paper and then
the kids decorated or like walk across it with their
feet and paint and like it's very exciting. It's really sweet.
I love that anyway. That's it from me, Dary Decoration
d It's full of are you feeling? Like everywhere on
socials and even in my friendship groups, I feel like

(27:55):
everybody's reverting to more of a traditional Christmases than it,
Like we're not going for the big shiny tree anymore.
We're going for like the thoughtful, handmade tree.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yes, is that?

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Am I? I feel like I'm the only one really
noticing this, And maybe it's because, like I'm very into economics,
but this is maybe overlay side step. Did you know
that during times of economic uncertainty this is just me
being a little bit of nerd, people will revert back
to traditional ways of doing things because it feels stable.

Speaker 5 (28:26):
Yes, that's so really interesting.

Speaker 6 (28:27):
TikTok about the rise of the traadwife and like the
narrowsmith of it all and how that was potentially tied
back to it, which is so interesting.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, like we're all just looking for a little bit
of stability. Yeah, when we want something a little bit
more wholesome, a little bit more stable, And I was like, oh, okay,
I feel cold out because I literally was like, oh,
I love my tree, but is it meaningful enough? Should
we be doing more like homemade, handmade stuff on here? Anyway?

Speaker 5 (28:51):
That's means someone too, It's meaningful.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Thank you, Thank you. Let's go to a really quick
break because I want to get into the flip side
of this episode really quickly, because we're going to be
talking about what do you do if your friend questions
the ethics of your investments. Imagine if you just said
the pub beck having your nice soda water and someone's like,
I'm your investment's ethical awkward? But how do you have

(29:14):
that conversation? And you slid into our dms. This week
we're going to be talking about our Christmas bonus. Is
the festive norm or are they just wishful thinking? So
don't go anywhere. Welcome back everyone.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Let's take a listen to this week's mummy dilemma.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Hi, there, have you got a money dilemma you just
can't solve that. She's on the Money Team is here
to help. Every week we tackle your dilemmas, both big
and small. To answer your most burning money, career and
life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website
and leave us a short voice recording, and you might
just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a
listen to this week's money dilemma. Hi, she's on the

(29:58):
money team.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
I've been on my investing g for a while now.
I dove in head first before I even knew what
an ETF was, and bought shares in a few different things,
including a mining company and some banks, because I saw
them as safe bets. I'm now a bit wiser and
transitioning to ETFs, but I'm also considering purchasing an investment
property in the near future. When I try to talk

(30:19):
about investing with my friends, they look at me as
though I'm a horrible person. They think it's unethical to
be investing this way, especially regarding an investment property, and
while I understand where they're coming from, I personally disagree.
I've worked insanely hard and made a lot of sacrifices
to get where I am financially, But am I wrong
for my investment choices? Do you have any advice for

(30:40):
discussing investments with people who give you a hard time
because they don't agree with your level of ethical tolerance.

Speaker 5 (30:46):
It's an awkward one.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
I talk about this all the time on the podcast
because I get messages and people going the what's a
good ethical investment? And ethical to you back might be
very different to what ethical to Jess is. And unfortunately
in Australia, it's not like organic. And I've said this before,
but like you can go to the shops right beck
and you could go to the organic section if you

(31:10):
really want to spend an arm and a leg. So
you're going to go to the organic section and you'll
see that things are certified organic, which means they had
to go through this rigorous testing process of like do
they do this, this, this and this, and then if
they pass all those tests, they get a big tick
and they get to put the sticker of I'm a
certified organic product on there. Right, that does not exist
for ethical in Australia. Ethical is just a word like

(31:32):
I could call it ethical and you go the it's
a tobacco company and I go, yeah, but like have
you seen their pay structure? They really look after their team,
Like okay, that might be your level of ethical. So
it's an interesting conversation to have with people because what
you accept is very different to what I might accept,
which is very different to what you know, Jess might accept.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
That's why we actually love having these conversations because we
ask diverse But ess, what would you do if I
turned around and maybe not me, because I feel like,
be like what, sit down? Shut up? Be What if
you're at brunch and one of your friends was like, oh,
you want to buy an investment property? Jess, Yeah, that's unethical.

Speaker 6 (32:16):
I think investment properties specifically are very polarizing as an investment, like,
I think it's less so I can see that, you know,
mining and things might also be somewhat controversial. But I
think all the things that our listener listed, the property,
the investment property is probably the most you know, talked
about one in the group because I think that people

(32:36):
are very divided on this, Like we've seen it in
our comments, we've seen it in other groups and other places.
People feel very strongly one way or the other, and
it really does come down to your personal compass. I think,
like my perspective on it is, I'm a renter. If
people didn't have investment properties to rent out, I would
be hopeless, do you know what I mean? So on

(32:57):
some level, I think that it's ethical. Yes, the discussion
that a lot of people have is around people who
have ten properties then you know, driving up housing prizes,
driving you know, people like you and mebeck out of
the property market because they've driven the prices up so
high we can't afford them because maybe they're using their
equity or blah blah blah. And I do kind of
agree with that side of the argument.

Speaker 5 (33:18):
I think, God, I don't.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
Want to get too much into the politics of it all,
but I think there's more regulation to be done, particularly
around like overseas investment and properties that don't have anybody
living in them and things like that. I think, like,
as a whole, we need people to invest in property
because tenants need to be able to live somewhere, Like
that's the case for me. And I think it's hard
because if someone does have a portfolio of ten properties,

(33:42):
at the same time, I want to acknowledge that they've
obviously hopefully worked really hard to get them and like
put themselves in what they think is a good financial position.
And I don't really want to lack be like you're
a bad person either, because if that was me, I'm
sure i'd feel a lot of pride and enjoy in
the fact that i'd done that. Yeah, I think the
ethical issue doesn't necessarily the responsibility of it doesn't necessarily

(34:04):
come down to the individual investor. And maybe that's a
naive opinion, but I think, like my perspective on the
ethics of it is it needs to be more regulated
from a government point of view.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Agreed. I think it's a very complex whebit of ethical
and economic circumstances that come together to have this conversation.
And maybe we've done an episode on this before and
we can link it in the show notes so that
you can deep dive into it more. But I think
it's actually a bigger, broader conversation. So there's obviously a

(34:39):
number of different arguments, and like I would hope that
as she's on the money, we talk about them pragmatically.
I am a property investor, and I don't see that
as inethical or unethical for me to engage in. But
I also think it comes back to my own morals
and my own ethics and the way that I run
my life.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I think that there are a lot of people in
this world who are like me, But then there are
a lot of people who put the onus on the tenant,
and that to me is not ethical. So like, if
I'm going to lease out my property, I think we
need to go back to the basics of why we're
investing in the first place. Right, We're investing to create wealth.
But at the crux of it, we need to remember

(35:20):
that there is a risk and reward chart, and to
take risk to get reward, that risk has to be acknowledged.
And one of those risks of investing in investment properties
is that you're not just going to be able to
purchase an apartment off the plan and lease it out
and automatically get you know, a seven percent yield on
your rental return and it's all sunshine and roses, and

(35:42):
you paid your deposit, but don't worry, all of your
tenant's rent coming in is paying the mortgage. Like, yes,
that is a golden opportunity, and some people are in
that situation ethically. But then I also believe some people
are in that situation inethically or unethically because they're overcharging
their tenenance for what I believe is a basic human right. Yeah,

(36:02):
do I think if I own an inner city apartment
that I can charge a premium on that, I don't
own one, But I do think that's the case because
to me, rent is also a lifestyle expense. So there
is the basic human need to have a roof over
my head for a reasonable amount of money, and I
think that's up to the government to legislate, and I

(36:23):
think it's up to the government to make sure that
we are able to access that and have not a
housing crisis, which we are currently in. But at the
same time, I think that if I'm going to buy
a property and it's a lifestyle property and it's not
going to help the cost of living crisis or people
in those situations, yeah, you can charge a premium for
your location or your view or whatever. Like you're not
taking the miki, but you are taking the miky. If

(36:45):
you are trying to increase your tenants rent because your
mortgage repayments increased, yeah, that is not your tenants responsibility.
In fact, let's pretend you know nothing about their financial situation.
Potentially they chose to rent because they wanted the stability
of a consistent payment each month and they didn't want
that financial responsibility. If your mortgage repayments increase. That's a

(37:07):
you problem, not a tenant problem. And like, I just
think that that's where things get a little bit inethical.
There's also the flip side argument where people think that
beck for example, you're not allowed to own multiple properties
until everyone in Australia owns one property so everyone can
be on the property ladder. And to that, I would say, no,

(37:27):
that's not how our economic situation works, right, Like, we
don't actually live in a communist society. Things aren't pulled
together and then shared out equally in our society, Like,
we are very lucky to live in Australia where we
have a really good social system. I'm not saying it
is perfect. I'm not saying that there aren't things that
need fixing. There absolutely are. But we live in a

(37:49):
society where people who can't get by are given resources
to get by, but people who go above and beyond
and try to make businesses and take big risks are
rewarded for that. And I don't think it is fair
to say that every single person should be able to
buy a property. Is it a situation where I think

(38:09):
everybody should be able to purchase a property. I want
to say yes because I would want that, but also
economically no, Like, we are in a and this is
probably a much larger conversation and I'm going to do
a whole podcast on this at some point soon, but
we are in a situation in Australia where our country
has only been colonized for two hundred issues, meaning that

(38:31):
property was so much more accessible historically. Owning property internationally
is not the norm. You look at places like Germany
and Sweden and nobody owns like I think it's like
only forty percent of their communities are homeowners because the
norm is to rent. And I actually think that instead

(38:52):
of trying to make property more accessible at this point,
because with inflation, with things increasing, with the cost of
living crisis that we're going through, I think the solution
and I'm not saying that is a perfect solution, but
one of the solutions is actually changing our rental laws
and changing tendency agreements. Like overseas, very normal to sign
a ten year lease agreement, very normal, to sign a

(39:15):
ten year lease agreement with stepped increments over a period
of time, so normal to be given permission to repaint
the entire inside of a home, make changes you know
updated kitchen if you want to, as long as you're
adding value. I couldn't even in Australia when I rented
put a painting on a wall when I requested permission
because they didn't want me to ruin it, Like we

(39:35):
don't feel in Australia like rental properties are our own homes,
whereas internationally that's actually the norm. People will rent a
place and live there for thirty forty years, like that
is the norm. So I think there's a very big sorry,
that's like a complete sideline. I think there's a very
big conversation to be had here and it would be

(39:57):
interesting to unpack why your friends are saying that your
ethical investments aren't ethical. Are they saying that because they
are really against mining? Are they saying that because investing
inherently is something that they're uncomfortable with. If so, why,
because at the end of the day, the only way
for an individual to create wealth if they did not

(40:20):
come from wealth, is to invest. Whether you are investing
in the share market, whether you are investing in creating
your own business, you are never going to create wealth
in a salary and payg job without doing something with
the income that you earn. It's just the reality of
the situation. It's not nice, it's not fun. But you

(40:41):
saying that not investing in general is the most ethical thing,
and therefore your suffering because of the lack of investing
that you're doing. I don't want people to be in
that position. Yeah, I want you to have that education
in that choice. So I feel like that's more of
a reflection of them than a reflection of you.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
I have friends that sound very similar to this, and
I'm probably more on that end too, but not in
a way that's like, you know, I don't want to
ever be shoving my opinion to anyone's throats, but I
have a.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Podcast that's what I do every day. So angel go Ham.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
Yeah, Well, I just think it's all everyone's in a
unique situation. Like you can't like put a blanket rawn
on literally everyone. But I think that if you're leaning
more on the spectrum of like wanting to make sure
that you'll purchase us every day ethical and like I
don't know, like taking a keep cup and like doing
your part in the world to like not leave quite

(41:35):
as big an impact. It's like we are doing all
these things we are trying to like look into companies
before we buy from them, and all these like you know,
the same with shares and stuff, looking into where your
money is going before you invest. And I think some
people can do it really really well and and they've
covered everything off, but there are some people that just
like like our listener who we're referring to here, firstly,
I just want to say, like, yeah, with the with

(41:56):
the investment property, I think if our listener knows that
it is a risk, it is an investment. And if
you have a share and the share price goes dramatically
down and you lose money, that was the risk, the risk,
that's the risk. You lost money. Sorry, that's it. And
if you understand that you're putting someone in the house,
you have an investment property, someone's renting it out and

(42:19):
the I don't know, I actually.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
You have to pay more. That's not the tenant's fault.

Speaker 5 (42:24):
That's the risk. That's the risk. It just keeps that
in mind. If you want to buy an investment property
and you're going to do it that ethically, you're fine,
but yes.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Likely what if the tenants move out and you haven't
found a new tenant, that's that's your problem. Yeah, that
is your cost to carry. That is why you have
an emergency fund. That is why you have to have
so much cash in surplus to own property, because there
are things that are gonna pop up.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Totally totally, But just in regards to the investment thing.
Last week and I was at a friend's birthday thing,
and it was kind of funny because like, I only
drink soda waters, as you guys know, and I should
have a soda stream, but I like to buy myself
glass bottles of so to water when I'm so I
just like, yeah, just so I feel like I'm you know,
everyone's grabbing their biers and they're like popping their thing off,
and I'm like, it's not to be part of that.

(43:08):
Everyone's like, ah bag if she'd uses there's water in
the tap, and I'm like, hey, guys, it's big corpor
You know, you've got to worry about big corpor Me
as an individual.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
You've got to support big corporate.

Speaker 5 (43:20):
You could have support.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
That's why you're buying their water.

Speaker 5 (43:22):
I just think there's so only so much weir as
individuals can do on.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
The ground things. Big things grow, right, I know.

Speaker 5 (43:29):
And it's like it's like that saying like, oh, it's
only one plastic straw says four million people, you know
what I mean, So like I understand where they're coming from.
But it's also it's also it's probably an issue that's
bigger than you and exactly just saying vida if you
if you are wanting to grow your money, you want to.
I don't know. I just think it's the investment part
not it's honestly, it's okay if you are comfortable investing

(43:52):
in these places, that's okay. It there's something wrong inherently
with the places that you're investing in. Maybe that's the
government thing. And if you're buying investment property, just make
sure you do it ethically.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
But we're not all perfect, right, We've all got different values.
It's like the vegetarian who still uses plastic straws, or
like the person who's using plastic straws but also you know,
actually reinvests in really ethical things. On the flip side,
it's I don't know, the girl who uses plastic bags
is still going to rallies on the weekend about things

(44:23):
that she's really passionate about. Like we're all just doing
our best in line with our values. And if your
values don't align. I think it's a really awesome opportunity
to have a conversation about well, what does that mean? Like,
why are you so passionate about that? Why do you
think this? Instead of going, oh my god, Beck, that's
so inethical and you're going, oh, that's awkward you, Oh
why do you think that? Like, we can have educated conversations.

(44:46):
We don't have to have the same opinion, yes, but
we can have respectful conversations about what that means. And
I think so many times if you know, Jess said
I like ex and I'd be like, oh, Like if
Jess said I love the color pink, I'm not going
to reply, ill, I don't like pink. What about pink
do you like? Like, we can have conversations with people

(45:06):
about things that we don't enjoy so that we get
a better understanding of them and their values. I agree.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
Amen. Anyway, she's the money laber.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Oh I can't wait. I've got so much to say
about Bloody Landlords that I just need to be kicked
off the Marc. At this point.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
We'll do a whole episode.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Oh we will, we will. So let's get into our
DMS this week. Hey, team, I've got a Christmas bonus dilemma.
I've always worked freelance or contract so I've never really
had bonuses or gifts from work. It's just not something
I expect. My partner, though, is used to getting them
and sees them as a sign of being valued. At
his last company, he didn't get a bonus at all,

(45:43):
and he took it really personally. It started this spiral
of feeling undervalued and negative about his job, which eventually
led to him leaving. Now he's already talking about what
his current company's bonus might look like this year, and
I'm worried it's going to be the same cycle all
over again. To me, is just that a bonus, it's
not guaranteed. Am I out of touch here? How do

(46:05):
I help him see the bigger picture without dismissing how
he feels.

Speaker 5 (46:13):
I've only had one bonus ever in my entire life.
I didn't realize that anyone in the world thought they
were just the norm. So I've him is an out.
It seems like I.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Feel like it's a real corporate thing. Yeah, it's super corporate.
Like my husband, for example, gets bonuses as a part
of his remuneration structure, but it is outlined in his
employment contract that if you know his team and the
business reach x level of profitability, then this whole complex

(46:42):
calculation comes into play. And then if he gets a
five star rating, it's literally like reading a multi level
marketing contract what it takes to achieve it right, and
then his bonus will be capped at a certain amount,
and then he will have a calculated percentage of xy.
It's crazy, but some people. I eat my husband just

(47:03):
to be honest, transparent and like, I guess a little
bit relatable. That's part of his remuneration structure. And he
like never knows what his bonus is going to because
it's like it's too complex for me to work outside
just wait until work tell me, Oh, this is what
the bonus is this year. But for me, I've never
received a bonus, and I would in corporate. But then
also I feel like small business they don't do bonuses.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
No.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
I just think maybe like bonuses are for the top
dogs who maybe don't need it. But I can understand
that bonuses are there for like people to work towards
something throughout the year so they have this you know,
incentive at the end of the year. I feel like
it just feels kind of unfair for those on the
ground who don't actually have those things to work toward.
If you're just like if you're a receptionist, and it's like,

(47:47):
you're not technically directly making money for the company, so
you don't there's no way for you to get an
incentive to get the bonus, or it's like, but you
probably need it more than anyone else in the goddamn company,
you know what I mean. So I just feel like
a bonus should be a nice, if at all, a
nice little I know that's not what the discussion is,
a nice little surprise at the end of the year,

(48:07):
like everyone's worked very hard, you all get the exact
same amount of money, and that's all. But I did
this person say that he's changed companies and he left
because he didn't feel valued. But before he left, he's
been the same company, got a bonus, and then didn't
get a it was.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
A new company, and the new company feel valued by
that new company, so he left. I just think like
if there was no discussion about why there was no bonus,
then you might you might not even know. Maybe it's
just not something that they do, or maybe that's not
it's like it's probably nothing to do with the worker
at all. In fact, yeah, it's probably so many different things,
the cost of living, anything else. But I can understand
that if you're used to it and then it just

(48:42):
kind of doesn't happen. But I've got so many opinions
and I don't want to like put them in here
because I want to ask my actual employee what she
thinks about bonuses before I tell you my thought process
on them.

Speaker 6 (48:54):
My experience similar to yours, it's where I wait that
would bus experience with bonuses was always corporate similar to
your husband. It's it's outlined as a part of your
remuneration scheme, and there's clear markers, like it's not like, oh, like,
you've been a nice person this year.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
So you get to find root.

Speaker 6 (49:11):
It was always very clear KPIs to achieve so, and
in my experience it was everyone within the company was
eligible for bonus. I've received bonuses at two different companies,
and in both of those places it was like they
were very achievable, and so it wasn't like a if
you do a crazy thing this year. It was always
like hey, like, if you've done your job well for
the r you know, hit your key KPIs everyone's eligible

(49:35):
for a bonus. I do believe it was tiered based.
I think it was akin to your your salary. So
I think like people who were recent something like more
senior people who were earning more did get bigger bonuses.
But then arguably those people were taking on larger workloads
or larger responsibilities or whatever. So like that's how that worked.
But like everybody knew, like you knew if you were
going to get your bonus or not effectively, and you

(49:57):
knew that it was because it was something that you
was agreed upon, like when you were hired. I think
that in terms of him leaving, I don't know, because
obviously we're hearing this from our listener's point of view
in the way that she's interpreted it. I don't think
a bonus and not getting a bonus is enough for
somebody to leave a company.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
But I feel like there would be more going on.

Speaker 6 (50:17):
Correctly, I think that maybe it's a it's symptomatic of
like the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak,
Like if you're feeling undervalued, if you're not feeling a
part of the team, if you're not feeling like your
work's being recognized if you're not feeling like XYZ, and
then you were hanging in there and you're like, oh,
at least at the end of the year, I'm going
to get my bonus, and you didn't get a bonus.
I can see how that would maybe push somebody over

(50:37):
the edge, but I think that it would probably be
stacking on top of a heap of other things, exactly right.
I do think that when you're being hired, it is
kind of your responsibility to figure out those things. Like,
I don't think you should just expect that every company
does a bonus structure, because it looks different everywhere, in
the same way that compensation broadly looks different at every company.

(51:00):
So I do kind of think that your partner probably
should have looked into that or spoken to their manager
or kind of sust it out, because I don't think
you can just expect everywhere to use a bonus structure
or to do it the same way as your previous employers.
But yeah, I think that them leaving was probably a
result of a number of things. Not simply not getting

(51:21):
a Christmas bonus would be my thoughts.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yeah, I guess this is flipping to the other side
as the employer. I don't do Christmas bonuses. I don't
do bonuses at all because as a small business you
kind of like when you're structuring your business, you step
back and go, okay, cool, like how much can I
afford to pay these people? What can I do? And
I would much prefer to max out what I can

(51:44):
pay people annually then like withhold a certain amount of
their remuneration for the rest of like, I don't know.
It just made me uncomfortable, like looking at the different
business structures, like when you hire one employee, and Jess
was my first in sheese on the money, and I
remember having already run a company and had employees. I
remember going, all right, well, this is actually a whole

(52:05):
new entity. I should look into the type of remuneration
structure I should offer, because you know, prior to Jess,
I had only hired financial advisors and mortgage brokers, and
I'd never really had somebody in a content role. And
I was like, well, what does that look like? And
I remember looking into like the different remuneration structures and
talking to a recruitment person about what would be the

(52:27):
best and talking to my employment lawyer and being like,
you know, what are other businesses in this space doing,
and getting a heap of advice, and ultimately I felt
the most comfortable with going okay, cool, I can afford
to pay Jess the salary that she really wants, instead
of going, oh, well, actually, Jess, it's actually ten grand
below what you are asking for. But if you're really

(52:49):
good and you work really hard, you can get another
ten grand at Christmas. Like I in my head just
didn't like that anticipation of like, I don't know the
idea that Jess or even any employee would be really
waiting until Christmas to be able to afford something, or
really waiting until a bonus to make something happen. Like
I just I like the clarity of clean numbers. That

(53:11):
doesn't mean that Christmas isn't a generous time for our
business though, Like I feel like at Christmas time we
still have a really beautiful party, have a you know, presence,
all of that fun stuff. But I feel like that's
then again back to what you were saying, like a surprise,
it's not expected. It's an enjoyable experience. But then I've

(53:32):
also been talking to someone recently where they're like, yeah,
we had our work Christmas party, like everyone was told
only have one drink because that's all the tab cover
and it just feels so stingy. And that's what would
make me feel like my business didn't value me like
I would hate for And this is again complete personal opinion.
Everybody runs their businesses differently, Like I cannot wait for

(53:55):
our work Christmas party sit down with everybody? Beck bloody,
she's busy route, but like, no, sit down with everybody
for a really nice lunch. Also, can we just talk
about how we always pick a lunch because I don't
want after work hours to be a part of your
expected work period of time. And we will be doing
that during workouts. I mean it'll probably kick on, let's

(54:17):
be honest, Like every year, Yes, everyone's gone out for drink,
STUFFWI towards and had a really fun time. But like,
I just hate the idea at Christmas time I would
expect one of your evenings.

Speaker 5 (54:27):
Yeah so busy.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, we're already busy anyway. I feel like there's you know,
give and take. But then other small business owners would
be like, oh, absolutely not. We don't do a Christmas party.
We just buy everybody a Christmas hamper and send them
on their way on you know, the twenty third of December,
and I just I don't know. We've all got our
own way of doing things, but I feel like a
bonus is not reflective of how valued you are. There

(54:53):
would have to be other things at play. Yeah, I agree,
I agree what everyone else say. Oh that was slow juicy.
So said, have you ever scored a Christmas bonus? Only
nine percent of you said, yeah, I get one every year.
I'm sure, right, yeah. Twenty two percent of you said occasionally,
but it's definitely not the norm. And then sixty nine
percent of you said, nap never had a bonus.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
We said, do you think Christmas bonuses should be performance
based or given equally? Sixty percent of you said performance
based and forty percent of you said given equally to everybody.
What are your thoughts? I think this is like, if
she's on the money, was giving bonuses? Is it equal?
Is it performance based?

Speaker 4 (55:34):
Well?

Speaker 5 (55:34):
I think that the risk is like here, what we're
hearing now is that this guy literally left his company
because he felt really disenchanted, really undervalued. This is the
negative effect that bonuses can have if not given to everyone.
But Also, it's like if you perceive that you have
worked hard all year, but your coworker, your cowork hasn't.
All your stats haven't lined up with that, but you've

(55:55):
been burnt to the crisp. You are burnt out. You've
worked so hard, you really loyal to the company, but
because on paper your stats might not show that, you
don't get a bonus.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Sorry, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
It's just like, I feel like performance some people are
really not you know, they're just come into the bare minimum.
That's fine. If they've kept their job, then they're just
they're doing their job, and that's okay. I don't think
we need to always be like striving for extra, extra extra.
If you're doing your job, that's plenty. That's what you've
been hired for. You're doing good. Yeah. I just think
the risk that people will feel undervalued and actually be

(56:29):
working hard and not ever be seen is higher than
just giving everyone the same and someone benefits even if
they've just kind of walked in they come in late
all the time. That's rarer.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I think, yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 6 (56:42):
The metrics are hard too, because generally, like you have
people doing such different things, like in my job, like
I'm directly linked to like revenue being generated. About to
say that somebody like our graphic designer, Like what she's
doing is absolutely generating revenue direct do you know what
I mean?

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Like I could sit down and I like that's I
was about to be like, I think it's given equally,
But that goes back to a bigger conversation about accountability,
performance management, and stuff. So I know, in my she's
on the money team. I'm proud of you guys, So
that's why I always gloat. But like everyone in my
team works friggin hard. Yeah, if you don't work hard,

(57:20):
it's not the environment for you. It's going to be
very obvious. Like I would say, I'm not a micromanager,
Like I'm not sitting there being like what are you doing?
Just but it will be obvious if Jess wasn't doing
her job, same with literally anybody else in the team.
But you know, we've got our graphic designer. She can't
put a number on what her work brings in. But
if you didn't have a graphic designer, just what are

(57:41):
content's going out? What content is going on?

Speaker 5 (57:43):
What am I selling?

Speaker 2 (57:44):
You know, we've got a podcast producer and she's fantastic,
but jess, what are you selling if our broadcast producer
doesn't do her job?

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Well?

Speaker 6 (57:52):
If you can't, it's so hard because I think, and
especially if you look at like a larger company, you go, oh,
like an admin assistant for example, versus someone in a
sales team. Your team on paper is bringing in money,
but like.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
I'm sorry, the assistant is making sure that they can
do their job.

Speaker 6 (58:06):
Running ragged to make it happen. So it's it's hard
because I think you're not comparing like for lack for
like when you do it exactly. I do like the
idea of it as much as I understand what you're
saying back about how some people might coast and some
people might go above beyond, I do kind of like
the idea of it being applied equally again equally valued. Yes,

(58:27):
I agree, but I mean there's arguments that go both ways, right, But.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
But I think in this situation, they're saying it's because
he doesn't feel valued, and it's like, well, to me,
that's all or nothing kind of statement, like that's not
I don't feel valued because I generated an extra X,
y Z. Then you know, just over in sales, like
what you expected, Like, I don't know. I just don't

(58:53):
like the idea that one team member would get preferential
treatment to another because they had sales target. Anyway, it
becomes so comp Look how complex we're making it. We
did ask the community for some opinions. Would you like
to hear them?

Speaker 5 (59:07):
I thought you might so.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
First person said, my dad used to get a Christmas
ham and a slaber beer. I've never had anything from work.
Do you know what my dad's work used to give
away a Christmas Ham?

Speaker 5 (59:19):
You set Christmas ham? Christmas like, I'll just bid sharing too.
Thanks for this leg that's really bad, terrible. Well, it's
probably on me. I didn't I wasn't making a song
and dance. I should have.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Someone else said, I get it as vouchers, not big bonuses.
But last year they just gave it to me in
my pay. But then I got extra attacks.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
Of course that's all they did.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
If I am giving cash to a team member, like
for some reason, or like a bonus or a Christmas present,
not bonus, you know what I mean? Like, if there's
some reason I'm gifting them something, it will come as
a vis a gift card. Most of the time, because
I'm literally like, okay, cool. I don't want to be like, oh,
here's a Mecca gift card. If I don't know your
financial situation, maybe like one hundred dollars at Mecha sligh.

(01:00:10):
I know Jess that so like, I don't think there'd
be any complaints, but maybe Beck, you'd be like what
the hell? Like I would prefer hundred bucks in my
bank account. Yeah, the groceries like a Visa gift card
can do that. So if you're an employer and you've
never done it, and you're thinking about Christmas this year
and you're like, oh, I don't know what to get people,
you've probably already done it because today's the last Friday
before Christmas.

Speaker 5 (01:00:28):
But silence away for next year, Away for next year.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Visa gift cards are I would say employees favorite type
of gift cards because they can be used anywhere. True.

Speaker 5 (01:00:37):
True.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
True. Someone else said, no bonuses when you work for
the government. If you think you add that much value,
you should be asking for a raise.

Speaker 5 (01:00:45):
Also a relevant point. Well that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yes, you think you deserve more, ask for it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:49):
Huh. That's a really good point.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
But humbling.

Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, someone else said, I've always received a gift card
reflective of my role level and workload that year in
three roles. Now cool. I didn't realize the gift cards
were so prominent. Yeah, I like this picasso. Someone else said,
in this climate, reality is most businesses can't afford bonuses.
It doesn't mean they don't value you. Someone else said,
a bonus is a bonus, and it shouldn't be expected

(01:01:15):
because it's a bonus.

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
Which kind of contradicts the fact that it gets put
into a lot of remuneration schemes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Yeah, I feel like we are confusing the terminology. So like,
obviously in if it's in your remuneration structure, a bonus
is a bonus if you meet a certain amount of KPIs,
then there's like a whole structure to it. It sounds
like this person didn't have, like going back to the
listener question, they didn't have that in their pay structure.
It's not like, oh, it was in his contract and

(01:01:41):
he never got paid it. It's like a little Chris,
it's a little Christmas treat he was expecting but didn't get. Yeah,
so if it's in your pay structure, I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
It's just so varied, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Someone else said, I worked exceptionally hard one year only
for everyone to get the same bonus.

Speaker 5 (01:01:57):
I can see how that would be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Yes, Like coming back to what you are saying, Yeah,
I can see what. Whereas from an employer's perspective, I
kind of look at it and go yep, because I'm
pretty sure when I look at my business as a
wholest team effort, totally.

Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
Yeah, and honestly, like sometimes just being like, hey, you
actually did a great job this year, like that's plenty,
that feels really good, And.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I'll have personal conversations about that, you know, discuss it
and talk about salary and talk about all of those
things separately, because I don't want people to not feel valued.
But like a little gift on the side, isn't why
you're valued?

Speaker 5 (01:02:27):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Someone else said, we always get a bonus of a
two hundred dollars Woolies gift card, which is great, but
I never rely on them.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
Oh yeah, that's a great gift, right Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Someone else said, try working in health. Don't even get
a day off at this time of year, let alone
a bonus. Oh and you have to shell out of
your own pocket for the work Christmas party.

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
What yeah wouldn't be doing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
I remember I worked at a university one time and
they made the biggest deal about this work Christmas party
and I was like, oh, okay, noorries and like the
university I worked at was not in the Melbourne Steed
and they had picked Melbourne, CBD location for the Christmas party.
And I'm thinking, oh, this is great. The work's putting
this on official work invitation all of that, and then

(01:03:09):
an email went around and they were like, oh, make
sure you bring at least one hundred dollars in cash.
I remembering like what, sorry, sorry dude, And then I
asked like my direct manager about it. Thankfully I liked her,
and I was like, what's this about, Like why would
we bring one hundred dollars cash? And she's like, oh, because,
like it's just so much easier at the end of
the night. You know, the set menu that we're paying

(01:03:29):
for is like sixty nine dollars ahead and then drink,
so it will be at least one hundred dollars ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:03:33):
And I was like, I will not be attending.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I was trying to take it back by it because
I was like, oh, like already I was feeling a
little bit awkward because spoiler, I didn't like the rest
of the team. That's why that job never worked out
for me. Didn't want to go. Was taking my partner,
so like awkward conversation and being like, so does that
mean like two hundred dollars, Like what's covered? What's not?
They're like, oh, none of it's covered. We've just organized
it as a team to go out, and I was

(01:03:58):
like cool, but it was just the backward situation in
the entire world. I went because I felt awkward. Shit
is night of my life.

Speaker 6 (01:04:07):
And you're like, I've had a bad time. I hate
everyone here, Adam one hundred dollars poor, this is the worst.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
I ever And everyone was rude to my now husband,
like they were just so rude, and I remember being like,
I'm on the way home. I'm like, I'm so sorry, Steve,
and he was like, well, that was terrible. I was like, yep, anyway,
that's what the community had to say. I feel like
that's a good place to leave it.

Speaker 6 (01:04:28):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
I'm excited. We have a bonus episode coming out on
Christmas Day, so don't worry, We're not done. It with
the festivities yet. But if we don't speak to you before,
then have the best festive season.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
Mary Chris, Mary christ Holidays, my friend who hope you
have a good period.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
We love you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
We'll see soon. Bye bye bye.

Speaker 4 (01:04:54):
Did By shared on Cheese on the Money is general
in nature and does not consider your individual circuit substances.
She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
should not be relied upon to make an investment or
financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product,
read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Tailored towards your needs.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives
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