You know when you’re standing in front of your overflowing wardrobe, absolutely drowning in clothes, and still somehow convincing yourself you have nothing to wear? Today’s guest knew that feeling all too well… until she decided she wasn’t buying a single new item of clothing for a whole year. Yes, Emma Edwards did the thing a lot of us love conceptually but would never have the courage, discipline, or emotional stability to actually commit to. Jess Ricci is self-admittedly in that group, so she decided to give Victoria the day off, and invite Emma into the studio to find out all about it. They dive into how what started as a “maybe this will calm my spending” experiment ended up rewiring Emma’s confidence, her habits, her body image, and the way she understood her own self-worth. Turns out the problem wasn’t the wardrobe… it was the stories she’d been telling herself every time she added something to her cart.
Inside this ep:
👗 The sneaky emotional loops that make you impulse spend
👗 Why your fantasy self has way too much influence over your actual budget
👗 The mindset shift that makes old clothes feel brand new again
👗 How to rebuild a wardrobe you genuinely love wearing
👗 The inner peace that hits when the parcels stop
👗 What happens when your style finally aligns with your identity
👗 How redefining her identity reshaped her finances
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Acknowledgement of Country By Nartarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.
The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708, AFSL - 451289.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Tatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations
woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young Ganya, Niana,
Kaka yah y and beIN Ahaka Nian our gay In Nimbini,
yakarum Jar, Dominyama, Umagahawakaman, damon Imlan Bumba, bang Gadabomba in
and now in wakah Ghana on yak rum Jar water Nadaa. Hello,
(00:22):
beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
We thank acknowledge and respect the Aberiginal people's land that
we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
knowledge and resources for you to thrive.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that's here to help you spend, save and invest in
line with your values. No, I am not Victoria Devine
and she's not even here today. I've given her the
day off because I wanted to do something special. I'm
Jess Ricky and today we're talking about something that sits
right at the intersection of money, identity, and self worth.
(01:29):
Our wardrobes. You know that feeling when you're staring at
a closet full of clothes but still think to yourself, oh,
I've got nothing to wear. Well, my guest today knows
it better than anyone. She's someone we've had on. She's
on the money before. She's the founder of the Broke
Generation and the author of the brand new brook The
Wardrobe Project, A year Buying Less and Liking yourself More.
I've invited Emma Edwards into the studio today to talk
(01:52):
about how a No Bay Yar changed not just her wardrobe,
but her entire relationship with spending, confidence, and identity. Welcome
back to the show, Emma.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thank you so much for having me again. Oh just
to move so excited to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I have been an avid follower of the whole Wardrobe journey,
from when you did it your very first short challenge,
all the way through. I cannot tell you how excited
I am to talk to you a bit more about
it and what you've learned and the book.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
It's been a long time coming, I think because I
did the original challenge in like twenty twenty three. Yeah,
documented it all and now it's immortalized in a book.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
As it should be. And I feel like it's exactly
as I said. It's something that so many of us
can relate to, right, Like that feeling of standing in
your closet and looking at like killos and killos of clothes.
I mean, like there's nothing in here, not one suitable
thing is crazy. So I'm very excited to get your
thoughts on how we can kind of work around our
mindset on that. But before we start, I wanted to
go back to who you were before the Wardrobe project.
(02:46):
Can you paint me a little bit of a picture
of the old Emma Edwards, not just the kind of
shopper that you were, but what you were going through
I guess on a deeper level.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
All the way back. I mean it's a funny one
for me. I think writing a book like this and
doing this challenge because everyone's like, didn't you write the
book called Good with Money?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Like aren't you meant to be really good at money?
Speaker 5 (03:05):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
No?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And I think that's where it got really interesting for
me because for me, before this challenge.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know, way we were back.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Was a hot money mess, I always called myself, but
kind of in the year leading up to the challenge specifically,
I'd done so much work on my finances. I've got
so many of my ducks in a row, but there
was just this one kind of nagging area of spending
and my kind of I guess behavior that was still
I don't want to say a problem, but it wasn't
(03:35):
kind of fitting into the same boxes that the other
things that I'd worked on in my money had. I
wasn't spending money I didn't have anymore, but I was
still buying things with this sort of cycle of an
emotional high followed by a crash. And I used to
kind of do that with all kinds of things, and
my money in general would be very chaotic. But I
(03:57):
started to get on top of that sort of in
twenty eighty and I started that journey. End of twenty nineteen,
I paid off my debt. Then twenty twenty, you know,
we started to have lockdowns and things, but I was
lucky enough to keep my job and I was side
hustling at the time, so you know, I was saving
and I was still making that kind of progress. But
I think particularly here in Melbourne. You know, by twenty
twenty two, we were only a deep breath away from
(04:19):
the last lockdown.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It simultaneously feels so long ago, and also it honestly
feels like yesterday as well. I can't begin to explain it.
Trying to tell people who weren't here during those lockdowns
feels impossible.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Exactly, especially when I tell this timeline and I was like, yeah,
you know, twenty twenty two, I started to think about
doing this year without buying clothes, and they're like, what
do you mean that was right after lockdown.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I'm like, we came out of lockdown October twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Yeah, and we didn't know if we were going to
you know, the first half of twenty twenty two, we
were like, well, when's the next one? Like, when's Lockdown seven?
And I think, like a lot of women, I had
an interesting experience during lockdown in that my relationship with
my body was just like thrown into.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
The dumpster fire.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I discovered getting wine delivered to my house. I drank
a lot ate, a lot of cheese, and like I've
always been like a bigger gal, like a little.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Bit chunky or whatever.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
But I was sort of around that the same time,
you know, getting back to the point of like accepting
my body's natural set point. And you know, I'd had
just sort of eating problems in the past, I'd sort
of really made good progress on, but then being stuck
inside and kind of dealing with rapid body changes as
well as kind of going back out into the world
and back into work and nothing fitting. And you know,
(05:31):
loads of people bought clothes online during COVID even though
we had nowhere to go.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I was one of those people.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Small bit of joy, any bit of joy we could.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Get, literally, And I really went through this sort of
cycle of trying to reinvent myself and wanting to emerge
from lockdown a different person or a more polished person,
or you know, really wanting to like put this. I
guess it's probably something to do with wanting to make
all of that lost time mean something. I went into
lockdown in my twenties came out in my thirties, Yeah, wow,
(05:58):
And that was you know, everybody's got their own kind
of experience with the years that they missed, but yeah,
for me, I'd had a lot of things I wanted
to feel about myself by the time I was thirty,
and I don't think I would have got them anyway
because of where that feeling was coming from. But I
think lockdown made that even worse. And so, yeah, before
the challenge, I was really in this cycle of constantly
reinventing myself and buying things for the person that I
(06:20):
wanted to be, and kind of having this idea in
my head of what something was going to look like
on me or what it was going to change, you know,
how it was going to change my life, the lifestyle
it was going to give me, and then not getting that, yeah,
And that's when I started to think, Oh, this is
really lingering. This is one part of my behavior that
I'm not able to control. Sounds really restrictive, but I
don't feel good about yeah, And that's when I started
(06:42):
to think about what would it be like to just
not buy anything for a whole year.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
And that's a very radical thought to have, especially in
this day and age, I feel, because exactly what you
were touching on. I guess the broader psychology of it
all is, you know, so much of marketing leans into
you're going to feel a satin way become a certain
person by owning this product. It's this idea that we're
sold by influencers, by brands, by everything, but the thought
of making it through a whole year. I remember when
(07:08):
you first announced it on your Instagram because I followed
you forever. I remember when you said it. I was like, conceptually,
I love it, but I simply could never do it
because I feel like it's so hard for me to
imagine stepping outside of the consumers. And I guess and
I wouldn't consider myself like a crazy consumer. I try
to be very mindful and very conscious, but you're totally right,
(07:30):
like the way that it all plays into our broader
perception of ourselves, you know, and what that means. Stepping
away from that and saying no, I'm not going to
buy it at all is almost unfathomable to me. And
I don't feel great about that.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
No, I'm glad that, you know, when you speak to
somebody that really relates to the things that I'm saying,
they're like, wow, yours. Get a couple of people that
are like, oh, I haven't bought clothed since nineteen seventy nine,
and I'm like grid very hard bright, Yeah, good for you,
and it's one of those things that you know, we
kind of a lot of people experience this kind of
borderline addictive cycle with buying clothes and things or buying
(08:05):
anything associated to your identity.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
But we don't really talk about it.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And I'm so I'm always so stunned that we are
so willing nowadays to examine our behavior and examine ourself
sabotaging patterns in every single area apart from spending.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
We're so secretive about it with spending, and.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
We pretend that we've got it all together, or we
justify things and say, oh, you know, it's this or
it's that, and it's okay because X, Y and z.
But there's actually so much to be learned about yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Through the way that you're spending.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
And I think while a lot of women's spending, the
things that we buy are seen as frivolous, but also
examining your spending is also seen as a frivolous pursuit.
A lot of the time, I'll get sort of like,
it's not mockery, but it's sort.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Of momentary from people, yeah that oh.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
You're you know, how dare you talk about what women
are buying when there's actually so much to be learned,
and there's a lot of them to be found when
you unparck why you're buying things.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, and also, don't punish us for being a product
of the net that you built for us, in the
box that you built for us. It really, I think
disproportionately impacts women because of you know, the generations and
generations of patriarchy, and women should look a certain way,
like you can't go into the office without looking put together,
your hair, you're done, your makeup, your outfit, like all
(09:25):
of these things that are put on us. But then
as soon as you care about it or want to
break it down or want to examine it, it's, oh, well,
don't be silly. They don't be frivolous. It's really interesting.
I think the way that that impacts everybody. It sounds
like you had to set yourself some ground rules to
get going. So you've decided to do this challenge, You've gone,
I want to step back, I want to figure it
all out. What rules did you put in place for yourself?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I'll just kind of add on a bit. You
know a lot of people go what made you decide
to actually do it?
Speaker 4 (09:52):
And aside from the fact that it was getting towards
the end of the year and I had the opportunity
to do a really clean Jan to December. Yeah, I
was in the UK for the last month of twenty
twenty two, and i'd been back twice that year because
it was the first time since twenty nineteen. So I
was like, oh, the borders were open, let's go. And
I kind of realized that i'd been thinking about it.
(10:13):
But the thing that really was the nail in the
coffin was I was, you know, shopping around. I love
to shop in the UK because they've got a lot
more plus size options than we had here in Australia.
I was sort of seeing all these things and it
was a different season to when I was there the
last time, and I was thinking, oh, you know, having
all these you know, creative stories evolving in my head
of how great these things were going to look. And
I was suddenly struck by the fact that I had
(10:34):
those same thoughts about the things that I bought when
I was there the last time into but now those
things were not as special as I thought they were
going to be, or they were, as I would later learn,
like quite big purchase mistakes and That's when I kind
of thought, yeah, I think there's really going to be
something valuable here. So I embarked on it from January first,
twenty twenty three, and my rules were it was specifically clothing.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
And a lot of people go, why wasn't it you know,
why wasn't it a no buy about everything? And firstly,
I think that would be really hard and really restrictive,
but also a bit like I'd said, you know, I'd
worked on so many areas of my spending and I
wasn't over consuming in skin care or beauty or even
you know, I'd stopped using takeaway apps for a period
of time, and I found that really helped. I'm quite
good at a challenge environment to really step back and
(11:21):
examine why I'm doing things. I find that abstinence really
helps me do that. And so clothes were a really
specific part of it. It wasn't shoes, it wasn't bags,
it was specifically clothes. In fact, I probably under consumed
in accessories to the point that I wasn't, you know,
tying outfits together. It was all about, I think, because
it was so deeply related to my body image. Yeah,
and my relationship with my body. It was the clothes
(11:43):
that with a thing. So I didn't specifically ban shoes,
although I later did bring in a shoe band just
because I found I was flirting a little bit with
you know, oh, I can't buy close to what look
at shoes and I was thinking, oh, you know, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I think I bought a pair of Crocs during the year.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And again is it really? They're not like an outfit.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
So I wasn't too worried about that, but it was
very specifically no clothes. And I also banned second hand
shopping because a lot of people were like, oh, why
don't you just do you secondhand or you know, I'm
doing it too, but just secondhand. But the problem I
had with secondhand that was that it was just permission
to consume. It's like over consumption with a clean conscience
for me, and the thrill of the hunt and the
(12:26):
dopamine seeking and the you know that all of the
barriers that would usually stop you buying clothes, you know, price, availability, size,
you know, those sorts of things were all gone when
I was thrifting, because it was such a if you
found something that you liked that fit on, that was
a good price. It probably wasn't too expensive because the
stores are generally cheaper, or it's on deep Op or
(12:46):
Marketplace or vinted or wherever you're listening. But also there's
this intense scarcity, so like our brains produce scarcity to
help us justify purchases anyway, and we'll think, oh, he's
going to sell out or is this But in a
thrift store, you know it genuinely is going to be gone.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
There's one of them.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
You can't do you think about it for twenty four
hours or wait till next week, or buy it on
payday necessarily. So I thought, let's just cut all of that.
And I had a lot of feedback from people being like, oh,
why don't you allow yourself three items or this or that?
And I kind of thought, you know, I had so
many people, but what if this?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
What if that?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
And I just thought, I'm just going to deal with
all of it if it happens. If I get invited
to a cowgirl party, I will deal with them when
it happens. There's a high chance that I won't. I'm
not a particularly sociable person. I didn't have a jam
packed social calendar so on Saturday night not likely, and
you know your brain kind.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Of goes, oh, well, what if I get invited to
a black tie? Then I thought, I'll just cross that
bridge when I come to it.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
If I have to borrow something, if I have to
buy one thing because I genuinely had nothing else, I
still think there's benefit. So I really just went in
all guns placing wow and said no clothes at all.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I think there's so much merit in removing those barriers too,
and just say well, exactly dead, Like, if something comes up,
I can figure it out. I'm choosing to do this challenge.
It's the journey that I'm going on. And if that
had change over the course of the year, that's not
a bad thing. I think you still would have had
the opportunity to take a lot of learnings from it.
But exactly the dedication that setting yourself up for success,
I think is such an important part.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
There's a big self trust piece as well. I think, Yeah,
a lot of people go, what if my weight changes
or what or what if that? I think, just trust
that you will know whether you are buying something because
you're cheating, or whether you're buying something because you genuinely
need to. Yeah, I think once you really commit fully
to the challenge, and that is a huge you know,
it's a big thing in behavior change. Committing to the
changes is the whole part of it. There's the change
(14:34):
that you do, but there's also the commitment that you make.
There's a lot to be said about just saying you
know what, I'm going to try it.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Getting on the horse is the hardest part, and if
you fall off, you can just get back on.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
How did those first few months feel Was there a
point where it got really hard? Did you feel like
there was a transition period where you were having these
impulses to do things that you were battling against.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I found the first couple of months were hard in
that I could just see how long I had to go.
I was like, Oh, I've done it and I've said
it online, so I've got to do it.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Do it now.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Yeah, But at the same time, I was finding a
lot of joy in putting together outfits I hadn't worn before.
And that's why I do recommend people even try it,
even just for a month, because there's a lot to
be found in your wardrobe just by going, Wow, I've
really got to get creative here. So the first couple
of months were pretty easy. You know, in Australia it
was summer at that time, so you know, the things
(15:27):
you wear for the first couple of months of the year,
first two three months of the year about the same.
The time I found it hard was when we got
to sort of April May and the season started to change.
I had realized that I was looking outside of my
wardrobe then for I guess signals of what to wear.
You know, when you get really out of the habit
of wearing a certain season of clothes.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
You're looking for inspo. What are the people wearing?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and you hit that point where you're like, what
are shoes that aren't sandals? Yeah? You know what I mean,
You're like, what do I wear?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
How do I cover my arms?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I have no sleeves.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah, you're just not in the cycle of it. That's
when I found the temptation that the strongest, because I
started to realize that, I think a change of season,
there's this shortcut available to you in shops when you
feel like you've got nothing to wear, there's this shortcut
and you go, oh, just get a couple of basics,
should get a couple of cardigans, a lople of jumpers.
I'll just get a couple of pairs of jeans or
(16:21):
whatever it is, and it sort of patches up that
resistance that we feel to not feeling connected to our wardrobes.
For that season, that was when I started to find
it the hardest. And then there was sort of a
period after that where I'd really pushed my wardrobe to
the limit. I'd really you know, you run out of
combinations eventually, of course, and then I had to really
(16:42):
start rewaring. And while I got a lot of enjoyment
out of that and satisfaction in a way, but also
just neutrality. I kind of accepted that I just didn't
have to feel good about what I was wearing all
the time, and that having a few things that I
did like, I could just keep reaching for those. I
have found this new type of joy in really loving
(17:03):
something and wearing it again. I just it sounds so ridiculous,
but I just hadn't experienced that, you know, that dopamine rush,
that enjoyment. Yeah, outside of something new, I relied on
novelty a lot in my wardrobe.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And it's such a it's again like such a societal
thing it's the don't you do. You don't want someone
to see that you in an outfit that you've worn before.
You need to find a different way to wear it.
But there is something really lovely about knowing like, these
are my favorite genes and I wear these genes twice
a week every week, and I should feel good about that.
I should feel good about my cost per use, being like,
I should feel good about the fact that I made
(17:36):
a good purchase decision for something that I will get
a lot of wear out of. But it's very interesting
that you're yeah, you're saying that typically wouldn't give the
dope mean here.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
You're so right.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
We're always looking for that new thing, but that dove
mean from the new item disappears so quickly, and that's
where we get stuck buying again and again because we're
chasing it.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
And I, you know, I sort of explore a bit
in the book about this idea of having nothing to wear,
and when we look at the connection between beliefs and behavior,
if we allow ourselves to believe that we have nothing
to wear because we are buying the wrong things, because
we haven't organized our wardrobe properly, because it's a change
of season and we feel like we have nothing to wear.
(18:16):
A very logical response to that is to buy more stuff. Yeah,
but I think it's something really interesting happens when you
realize that the solution that makes logical sense is obviously
not working, because if you keep buying more but you
still don't have anything to wear, there's a missing piece somewhere.
For me, it was that, you know, buying to be
somebody I wish that I was buying to hide my flaws,
(18:37):
buying for the novelty, buying for the dopamine hit. And
I think when I started to realize that there was
so much joy to be had in actually seeing how
I looked in my clothes and wearing clothes because I
liked how they looked on me, rather than because I
liked the idea of them. Yes, especially being a bigger
woman and I have some size privilege, I do fit
(18:58):
into some mainstream stores. But even then, when I look
at pieces of clothing online, nineteen times out of one hundred,
they're on a slimmer model, which only fed this idea
of what it was supposed to look like. So I'd
be all hopped up when I'd buy something thinking I
was going to look like that, and then I wouldn't
look like that, And sort of that, combined with everything
(19:21):
else that was going on with that sort of spending pattern,
that just fueled this cycle of try again, try again,
try again, and every time I had my hopes up
that I was going to look like this image in
my head that I kind of came to refer to
as the fantasy self.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Which I'm sure we'll talk about later.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Yes, yeah, breaking that down. And it's interesting. The cutting
off the consumption played a really interesting role in intercepting
that behavior. A lot of people go, well, what if
I stop buying? But what do I do about all
the other emotional stuff when you stop feeding it?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
When buying.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
A lot of it neutralizes quite naturally on its own.
Overtime doesn't happen overnight. We want it to happen overnight.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Despite the yeal on challenge.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Why it's a year, It really needed to be a year.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, it's And the crazy thing is those models also
that we're all looking at don't look how No, most
because if you've ever been to a you know, an
e Comma shoot, they're pinned in with these giant clips
or they're photoshopping things they're wearing, shoes that are two
sizes to be. It's all again, it's all in the
power of marketing. But I want to ask you a
bit more about this fantasy self exactly as you just said.
(20:23):
Can you tell me a little bit more about her,
what she was for you and that role that she
does play in your spending.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
The fantasyself was something I started to tease out. Again.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
This is why said it had to be a year,
because this is where I started to see these patterns
in what I was buying. I have a whole sort
of section in the book where I've got all these
categories of things that are hanging in our wardrobes and
the stories that they're telling. And a big one for
me was these fantasy items that were things I would
buy again and again and again to try and emulate
(20:52):
this look that I had in my head. And it's
often the opposite of who we are, or it has
certain aspects of ourselves that we wish that we could change.
Sometimes it's a height thing, sometimes its size thing, you know.
For me, my fantasy self was always this sort of
complete antithesis to me, like tall, lanky, slim bean pole
when I'm literally.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Lik really crazy that one hundred percent, but I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
It's like I only saw clothes through the lens of
her and never me, And I think that's why the
year was so powerful, because something else that I did
was when I wore outfits that I liked, I took
a photo of them and added them to an album
on my phone so I could refer back to them,
and doing that made me see my clothes through the
lens of myself for the first time. I don't think
(21:40):
that we realized how little were actually looking at ourselves previously.
When I'd look in the mirror or I'd assess how
I felt about an outfit, it was benchmarked against that
fantasy subconsciously. Of course, we're not thinking these things in
real time. But that was why I didn't feel good
about the way that I looked, because I felt like
I looked wrong and I had to try and change it,
and the easiest short cut for that was to buy something,
(22:02):
and so looking like sort of seeing myself in a
different way.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I think the year.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Didn't allow me to really engage with the fantasy self
because I couldn't. I engaged with her through buying, and
I bought for her, but I didn't get to do
that through the whole year, and so what was left
was me, and I realized by the end of the year,
I was like, wow, my body image is so much
better than it used to be, just really gradually, and
(22:33):
I thought, there can't be a coincidence, because I haven't
been putting my body on trial through you know, women's
sizing is. Oh, so I haven't been putting my body
on trial for what fits. I haven't been putting my
body on trial against this fantasy of what I wish
I looked like or what I thought I wish I
looked like. I haven't been comparing myself to the picture online.
I haven't been getting my hopes up and then putting
(22:54):
it on and being disappointed. All of that stripped away
gave me this room to actually see myself, and that's
when I could start seeing clothes in a way that
was I feel good in this, rather than oh, this
isn't that quite how I wanted or you know, anybody
with thick thighs will know that trying to embrace the
(23:15):
straight leg jean trend, all jeans are skinnies, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Wide, baggy, baggy or skinny.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
There's no in between mum jeans don't know barrel leg.
I don't mind because barrel leg look like mom jeans giving.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
But I know what you mean.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I was trying, you know, my thing always and I
don't even think there's this term anymore. It'll probably come
back around again with the styles. But there was always
this style of cigarette trousers, sort of pencils tapered. That's
what I always wanted, but.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Just didn't it work for me. And now you know,
I would resist.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
The wide leg for some reason because I don't know
that was playing into what my body really is. And
I was almost addicted to trying to be different. But
the year kind of took all of that pressure away
and I actually found at first piece with who I was,
but down the line a lot of joy. And now
(24:10):
when I get dressed, you know, I wear the same
things over and over again, and I'm more. This was
kind of a realization that I had towards the end
of the year, or more sort of even in the
year after, where I was able to buy again. I
like my clothes that I have more than the things
I see in stores. When I think about going to
an event that used to be like great perfect excuse
to go and buy something new, Whereas now I'm like,
(24:31):
I can't wait to wear that dress because I don't
get to wear it often because it is more formal.
I can't wait to wear that. I know exactly what
I'm wearing. Even for this today, I know exactly what
I'm wearing.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
It never used to be like that.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
And when you don't feel like that, that's where all
of those marketing messages hit you, and they were it
works so well. You've only got to walk around Chadstone
or any shopping center.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I looked at this the other day. I was walking
around and I thought, eighty percent of these stores, if
not more, are for women.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
There is We're huge consumers where it's such a huge
segment of the market. It's an industry that's been built
though on making us feel like shit about ourselves, and
that's why it's so profitable. I think for them, was
it confronting to slowly make that realization about all of
these I guess suppressed subconscious feelings about yourself, because as
(25:18):
you were talking about, I was deeply, honestly relating to
the fact that if I think on it really introspectively,
the relationship that I have to my clothes and my
wardrobe and shopping. I think is very similar to what
all I'm hearing is that I need to do this challenge. Yeah,
but I think there are a lot of things in
terms of my self perception and self worth that maybe
(25:39):
I don't feel so great about that really feed into that,
and I don't like that's quite uncomfortable to think about.
Was it hard to make those considerations and move through
them or have those realizations?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I suppose yeah, it was in a way, especially when
you kind of consider the environmental impact of consumption, and
you know, I think kind of icky when I go,
this wasn't a sustainability challenge, and it kind of was
in a collateral way. But I did it from a
finance and a behavior perspective. I found that the sustainability was,
you know, an added benefit. But I think that there
(26:12):
really is something to be said about the behavioral aspect
of sustainability, So I guess that's just on that. But yeah,
it was confronting to realize I think how long I'd
been subconsciously stuck in that cycle and how something that
I thought I enjoyed, you know, I'd make these excuses sometimes, Oh,
I just.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Like clothes, I love fashion, I love fashionion girl.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, when really I just you know, I say this
in the book. I thought that I liked fashion, but
I actually just liked buying. And I think you hit
home that's when you're getting the most joy from your
clothes when you're buying. You don't love fashion and you
just love buying. There's you know, you can absolutely love both,
and you can shift that love of buying into into style.
(26:55):
But yeah, it was It was confronting, but it was
also almost a relief in a way because I had
finally understood the link between those things and why I
was doing these things. And I think, you know, it
helped in a way that I got the benefit in
real time. I sort of had the realization that I
had this problematic cycle, but at the same time as
(27:16):
experiencing the other side of it, so.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
You could really prove through. Yeah, that's incredible. There are
so many great lines, great catchphrases that you have that
really sit and resonate. One that I particularly loved was
the concept of outsourcing your identity to consumption, which we've
kind of just touched on, but I think there's so
much power in that state, like you're really calling it
for what it is.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Whenever I say that line, a lot of women relate.
And I think that it's, as you say, confronting in
a way to realize that we've kind of often pieced
together the version of ourselves that we try to be
through buying. And I talk in the book a bit
about the term put together. A lot of women say
they want to look put together. And while I, you know,
(27:59):
I on the surface, that makes complete sense, and I
think the term put together that there's merit to it,
especially in a professional environment or when you're putting together
your favorite pieces. But there's almost like a slightly sinister
undertone to that term.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Of put together.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
And I kind of marrit it up with the term
polished that a lot of other women relate to that.
You know, we are sort of piecing ourselves together with
things that are sold to us, and I kind of
sometimes question if we weren't putting ourselves together with all
of these elements that are constantly sold, where would the
billions of dollars go.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, and there's so much power I think for the
big corps, the big companies that not to put my
tinfoil hat on. But you know, there's a lot out there.
I think for these huge corporations in keeping women feeling
bad about themselves. Keeping is consuming, Keeping is not looking,
you know, at what is causing those things moving past
that because that's what puts money in their pockets.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, at the end of the day, and I think
as well, keeping us. You know, a lot of people
are kind of go oh. Companies aren't sitting there thinking
about how they can make for bad about ourselves. But
I think as long as the goalposts are moving, that's
all that matters. Yeah, as long as we are in
that position of feeling the way we do about ourselves
by consuming or consuming being a part of that, playing
(29:14):
a role in that, that's all you need because there's
always something more to be sold. There's a piece that
comes from, which is what the challenge is really saying
I have enough and the link between having enough and
being enough. When you say that you have enough, you're
sort of subconsciously saying, well, I am enough as well.
(29:34):
I don't need to buy new things, to go to
that work event, to have my birthday to be seen
in any way, I am enough with the things I
already have. And there's an interesting link there is.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
That one of the biggest things you'd say the experiment
taught you about, like the impulse control and emotional side.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Of it all.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah, I think there's you know, there's that deep emotional side,
and then there's also sort of the whipped cream on top.
Is that just you know, that quick dopamine hit, but
buying something online or getting a little treat or whatever,
you know, that's sometimes very you know, flash in a
pan that's very real. It doesn't necessarily mean there's a
ton of emotional stuff going on that can still be
quite real. I think there's two parts of it to
(30:14):
unpack the deepest stuff, the deep cycles of what you're
buying and why you're buying. And then there's really watching
that sort of cycle of little treat, cycle of dopamine,
but again stepping back and creating more distance between the
last hit and the next hit that can break the
cycle as well. And it's something I did during the
year was what I called exposure therapy, and I'd go
into the shop, sort brows online and allow myself.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
To meet that desire.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
And yeah, there's a lot of mental peace that comes
from just saying I'm not even going to entertain buying this.
That was probably one of the most surprising things actually,
you know, in a impulse control sense, there's also that,
you know that meatia emotional stuff, but realizing how free
(31:00):
it was to just not be buying.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I could see someone's.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Jacket, it didn't matter. It didn't have to go on
Google lens and stop putting it through. I didn't have
to google where's that from? Oh that looks like that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Oh it's out of stock. Oh they've got it. What's
it called? High point? Can I be bothered to go
all the way over that? These loops I would jump
through all the time. Oh I want it for Saturday?
Will it get delivered in time?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It's never ending, the thoughts. The noise of it all
is the noise, and I have more questions about that.
But I think we should jump to a really quick break,
and when we come back, I want to dive a
little bit more deeply into all those concepts that don't
go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody. I'm chatting with Emma Edwards,
who has just released her book The Wardrobe Project, all
(31:42):
about her year of buying no clothing.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Now.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I have been wondering a little bit when you took
buying out of the equation, did you notice other areas
of your life, like time or creativity or happiness also
started to shift.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yes, I found you know, I had that mental peace
that I talked about before.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
That just sort of, I don't know, it just felt
a lot lighter in general. But obviously I was, you know,
hyper focused on the challenge. I was talking about it online.
You know, that was obviously quite palpable. I think the
other sort of area is I found a new sense
of creativity, not just in my wardrobe, but I also
I took up sewing again. I used to sew with
(32:26):
my gran when I was younger, because I would go
to her house when I was on school holidays or whatever.
And she died when I was fifteen, so I didn't
sort of pick it up again, but I'd always wanted to.
And you know, again, I could have done that at
any point. But I just don't think it's a coincidence
that I found the time the focus. You know, I'm
very big on making a list of things I'm going
(32:48):
to do and.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Not doing that.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
I don't think it's a coincidence that I was able
to engage with that during the year because I think
it took I think the challenge took a lot of
urgency out of the way I was relating to clothes
or even projects. And I think previously I was kind
of going, oh, I must start sewing again, but it's
going to take so long to make one top, or like,
(33:11):
I can't you know that thing about not wanting to
be bad at something.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Oh, yes, I won't be able to wear it out
because it's not going to look like when I got
at the store.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yes, Whereas I think the sense of slowness gave me
a sense of patience to learn. Take that up in
a way that you know, it directly fed into what
I was trying to do as well. I did have
a rule within the challenge that I could buy fabric again.
I had to do so mindfully. A lot of people go, oh,
I took up sewing and I couldn't stop my fabric.
You do have to be careful of that fabric's expensive.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But yeah, there was. It was a very creative year.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I think because you've removed some of the noise that feels,
I feel like it takes up again subconsciously, so much
room in your brain. All those things exactly you were
saying the hoops of where I want this, but where
can I get an Oh, down a stock maybe I'll
drive to the inside the city, or being borrowed from
someone I.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Can lend it online.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
There's a lot of a lot of volume in your head,
I imagine once you finally figure out how to switch
that off.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Yeah it is, and I'm yeah, now I'm thinking now
you've asked me that, I'm thinking, oh, what did I
do with that sort of mental peace?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
But you know, I noticed you could have just enjoyed it,
that's okay.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
And I'd noticed it a lot, you know, if there
would be an event or someone's birthday or wedding and
I just you know, people going to watch I wear
on popping over to chance and to look for this,
and I was just kind of like, I'm done.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I know what I'm wearing, and like, oh course you
know what you're wearing. But sounds lovely. Yeah, it was great. God,
was there a moment.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Or something you realized during that year that completely rewired
your mindset where you thought, oh my gosh, now that
I've seen this, I can't see it, like that switch
just flipped.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I think it was seeing those patterns in my wardrobe.
And I think, you know, coming back to something you
asked earlier, was there a point where it about hard.
There was a point, probably seven or eight months in
where the penny had dropped on how I was buying
the wrong things, so chasing that fantasy self buying things.
(35:05):
You know, another thing I would do would be buy
If I liked something in black, I'd go and buy
it in every color. I used to do this too, yes,
Or I'd go and buy a very similar version to
something else because I couldn't find the one I wanted.
Where's my stripeytop, I'll just buy another one, oh my god?
Or you know, little things like I wanted. You know,
(35:26):
at one point I wanted a pair of like white
off white jeans, and I couldn't find any that I
liked that fitted, partly because I was chasing that tape
of look. But that's neither here nor there. But I
found a pair in Suzanne of all places, very generous
on the sizing, and they fit. They weren't quite what
I wanted, but I wanted to wear white jeans so
(35:47):
badly that I bought them.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Heard them.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
So I think when the penny dropped on that, I
was kind of eager to get out and I kind
of thought, oh, I know now why I hate my
clothes all the time, because I'm buying for all the
wrong reasons, buying all the wrong stuff. And so I
had these things that I did like, but that was
quite a limited wardrobe. Everything else I could see the
issues with, and I wore them anyway, and you know,
(36:13):
I really pushed those to the limits. But I started
to compile this sort of list of yeses and noes,
so like really specific things about clothes, like the length
that I like, the type of sleeve, the type of fabric,
the type of fabric weight, Like I really knew what
good purchases were going to be for me now. Yeah,
And at that point I kind of wanted to rush
out and go, oh, let me test this out and
you know, buy the right things. So that kind of
(36:36):
got quite difficult. But that penny dropping of where the
patterns of buying had been really wrong, that kind of
really changed the course of the challenge because I could
see then a time after the challenge which I had
to start entertaining towards the end of the year, because
I kind of thought, God, what now, like what am
I going to be like, am I going to repeat?
Am I going to go back to the way I was?
(36:56):
Am I going to repeat all the same patterns? And
I think realizing that those things which sound practical but
actually when you marry it up with that emotional stuff,
make a lot of sense. Yeah, that's when I started
to kind of think, Ah, I've really made a breakthrough here,
because I have so many reasons now not to go
back to the way that I was, because there's an alternative. Yeah,
(37:19):
and I now think that I know how to buy
things mindfully that I do want to keep wearing. And
that's really how that was the turning point that got
me to where I am now.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, were you nervous at any point about coming to
the end of your yark? Because I think for a
lot of people, when you do any kind of restrictive challenge,
whether it be clothing or finance, or even for people
who do fitness challenges and things, there's this, I guess,
very common storyline where you do it, you push really hard,
you get through it, and you get to the end
and you blow out. You know, you have your huge Yeah,
(37:52):
exactly right. Were you ever concerned that that would be
the case, or were you so steadfast in what you
learned that you just knew that it was going to
change your approach completely.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I was concerned because you can't, you know, you can't
take the fish out of water, Like we're still live
in a world where there is more and more and more.
We are still seeing everybody's lives on social media. There
is still somebody's latest affiliate link that I can click,
and there's still those external inputs.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So I knew that, you know.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I actually say in the book that the challenge really
began the year after because then I had to consume
mindfully and you know, there were certain things I wanted
to replace in my wardrobe, but I had to be
careful not to go crazy or be over I was
a bit overconfident at one point as well.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I think, or I can't.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Possibly make a bad decision, whereas you know, a couple
of misses throughout that year when I did buy a
few things.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
What were those things? Can you tell me, like, was
is there something that comes to mind that you bought
that You're like, ah, that was a bad and you
know now you can you know why?
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yeah, I mean it's a hard one because it was
partly as well. The fabric wasn't it was a bit
of a letdown. There was some practical.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Aspects to it.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
Just missed the mark, just miss the mark. Like it
was a It was a suit, sort of a linen
blend suit. Yes, that I got on a really good
price and I fit really nicely and I was really
happy with it. Got it in the UK actually, and
something about when I hung it out the sun changed
the color of the white. Yeah, because I washed the
trousers a lot more than the jacket. Yeah, and the
color change. So there was that aspect, but there was another.
(39:22):
I just sort of I look at it and I'm like,
I could have lived about that better. Yeah, Like I
wear it because this is the other kind of thing
I learned to you know, things don't have to be
absolutely perfect. Wearing things can change your opinion of them.
I pulled a lot of things out of my donate pile.
Oh I love that, And I said this, you know,
I run this accountability challenge as well with other women
(39:44):
in the group, and a lot of people have their
own kind of experience with these concepts. But something universally true,
aside from when you've had a drastic change in size.
Usually there's some treasure in your donate pile because we
get rid of things very very quickly because the novelties
worn off because we want an excuse to buy something else.
But yeah, I kind of got a lot. Sorry, I
(40:06):
can't remember what you actually originally asked.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Me coming to NY and I'm love it you every
minute of it.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I said it was like, was there a specific item,
which I think you did answer like, yeah, the suit.
You're bound to fall off though, too, I think as well,
like when you're changing the way that you fundamentally consume,
like there's going to be some learning curves. I think
it's so impressive that you can say, after coming out
of that whole year, you know, there are a couple
of swings and missus, but overall, like you're really happy
(40:33):
and you know what you need and what you look
for well enough to shop really effectively.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Now, yes, the way I consume is and that's kind
of how I forgave myself for not being on, you know,
on the mark every single time.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And you know the way the money if you are
fundamentally different.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Yeah, But I think the other challenge I had, which
is actually how I ended up doing the challenge again
this year with slightly modified rules, is that again you
can't take the fish out of water, like there is
still so much more, more and more. When I learned
to buy better, I had to. I did a mini
freeze during the year, just three months where I didn't
buy anything else because one, I was craving that piece
because there were so many things, but also two, you
(41:11):
still only need a certain amount of clothes. So I
had learned to buy well and buy things that I
would really want to wear. The ability to over consume
is still so easy that I almost was getting even
though it was more useful things I was buying. I
was almost kind of had to be careful not to
(41:33):
over consume good things because I'd had this pattern of
over consuming all the wrong things and that's what kept
me reconsuming.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, Whereas then I had this, as I said before,
almost over confidence, where I.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Was like, I buy so well and you know, I
am good with money as they say, so I wasn't
spending money I didn't have, you know, I had this
almost where do I actually stop then? So then I
had to sort of I did the challenge again this
year where I was like, I'm not bringing anything new
into my wardrobe, partly for some sustainability reasons which I'll
come on to, but also to I guess experience those
(42:05):
learnings again with a wardrobe I loved, and that was
completely different because I wasn't learning all the things I'd
done wrong. I was actually just learning to be with
what I had. And now as we come to the
end of this year, I don't need to go and
replace things in the way I did before, so now
it's much more of a lasting change that has happened.
(42:28):
I later towards the second half of this year, I
allowed a limited amount of thrifting because I wanted to
get back into thrifting, but I still had that, Oh,
it's really hard to say no to something that's really good.
How do I limit this? So I really wanted to
try that within the context of thrifting being the only option,
and that's been really fun. I've been customizing some things.
(42:50):
I've been buying a couple of things and dying them.
I bought this and I died it into my signature RUSS.
Yet it was great, fantastic.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
I would never have known that that was not its
original color.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
No, so well it looks and it has much in
trousers as well. But that's you know, that creativity has
really come back again. And I don't think that that's
a surprise that it's in the year where I've stepped
back and I think, just yeah, something can seem really restrictive,
but actually there's so much to be found and experienced.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Absolutely. How's your style changed through all of this, Like,
what's the criteria now that you use to assess you're
talking about sustainability in that element a little bit? What
kind of things are you looking at when you are
considering bringing something into your wardrobe?
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah, I'm really looking at you know, I'm very much
of the belief that the most sustainable outfit you can
wear is one you already have. And so there's that,
you know, you don't need to be, you know, jumping
through hoops and looking for all these amazing sustainable brands
if you're not buying anything at all.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Look, I have some.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Work to do on perhaps where I'm shopping. You know,
I'm you know, I'm not shopping Sheen and Timu and
things like that. But you know, your shops, your major retailers, it's.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
A ray area.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Yeah, like your Kmart, Yeah, came Out's country Road WI.
You know that it's not exactly sustainable, so I would
again it can be harder in plus size they're a
lot less and truly ethically made plus size stores. But
again I use that as an excuse for a long time,
can't shop ethically. I'm that shouldn't have to, but it is.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
It's hard. It's like you're limited already.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
And then you know, but I've really, you know, I'm
focusing very much on things I will wear, you know,
on my criteria list. I've I've worked out what makes
me love my body the most, So things that work
really well on my curves, things that run longer because
I have a funny body composition that my torso is
really long. I'm tall in general, but a lot of
my height comes from my torso.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
So where for so long I was chasing that like long, leggy,
athletic look that was just so not what I am.
Now I really kind of embrace my my curves but
also the space I take up.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I talk in the book a bit.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
A bit how I moved away from wanting to be
that sort of beige, minimalist, clean you know, old money
almost look too much more bold and like you know,
orange is my signature color.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
And I'm colorful to me.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
I don't think give you I do.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I think a vibrant yes, And.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Like I'm not a quiet person and I am silly
and I do joke around, and I'm not neat and
polished and you know, put together per se in that
traditional sense. So I really started to lean into that
a bit more, and I started sort of using these
style anchor words. So I started There's a drink that
I have when I'm in the UK that's like an
(45:30):
espresso with whipped cream, like all espresso conpana, And I
was like, that's kind of my style. Like there's the
basics and the simples and the you know, the nice clean,
you know, suiting or denim or whatever, but then there's
these like punchy.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Elements as well.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yeah, like no one can see today, but I'm wearing
my like my big velvet orange shoes, which people have come.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
To known me for.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Shoes I've ever seen the fantastic, but.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
Like they're kind of me in a shoe. Like they're
big and they're chunky, and they're loud and they take
up space and they're very cool. And that's kind of
a really big difference as well, from trying to fit
into that little neat box to just being like, especially
now with the way we're seeing style and we're seeing
this move to the right, with this sort of you know,
clean girl, clean core, Yeah, moving away from that. Even
(46:16):
my nail ladies say the other day, she goes, you're
the only one of my clients that gets a bright
colors crazy And I was like, oh, look, maybe they
have to have baite for work. It was like, no,
it's a real trend.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Long gone are the days of Cajun shrimp, you know
for anyone out there.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
And it, yeah, like embracing that in my style has
been really nice and doing it within the boundaries of
this is what works, this is what I will wear,
this is something that will fit with what I already have,
and overall just consuming less, buying less, and lucking myself more.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Ah, that's the dream. Those anchor words that you're talking about.
Is that something you talk through in the book, because
that's something I really struggle with. Someone asked U and
A on Instagram or something recently, someone said, how would
you describe your style? And I said, I have absolutely
like for my clothes, for my home, I couldn't tell you,
And I feel like that's probably a huge gap because like,
how do you shop when you don't know what you're
shopping for?
Speaker 4 (47:09):
It's kind of like, how would you exist in the
world if you didn't know what you've valued? You know,
how do you shop when you don't know what your
style is? I think, yes, I do talk about that
in the book, and I talk about it in the
sense of, you know, I have to stay on my
lane because I'm not a stylist.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I talk about the style a.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Lot, but I'm not a qualified stylist, but I talk
about it in this sense a lot of anchoring it
to something something physical or something visual, whether it's a
plant or a place or a city drink.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
You know, there was that kind of ic latte phase.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I think a lot of people will have that sort
of style, But there's a lot to be said about
that because you perceive that thing a certain way, and
so someone might say, Oh, my style is New York
and like, that's not something that can be replicated by
anybody else because the way they perceive New York, oh
is really specific to them.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
So again people will be like, express it.
Speaker 5 (47:56):
What are you like?
Speaker 2 (47:56):
What are you talking about.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
But it made sense to me, and I see that
in my style choices, and that's really all that matters.
Whereas when we kind of use word you know, feminine, floral, like,
it can help in a way, but then a hundred
girls in a lineup could say feminine and it could
mean something different to them. So your interpretation of like
traditional style words like that. But I think when you
pick it, you know, for some people their style might
(48:19):
be like a velvet sofa and like that evokes a
feeling in them and they replicate that in their style
and then it's really unique to you, which is FIRS
style should be really exactly exactly. But we're so homogeneous
in our style now the individuality is more and more rare.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, I'm not celebrated in the way that I should be.
I feel like, either, Wow, we've covered so much today
before we go. I would love to know for anyone
who's listening, they're going I think I need to They're
doing exactly what I'm doing. I need to do this challenge,
This challenges for me. What would your advice be to
someone who's looking to take it on?
Speaker 4 (48:53):
M Well, I have a whole advice section at the
back of the book. So I definitely check that out
because there's a lot to say. My device would be
don't overthink it, even though I've overthought it to the
point I've written a book about it. Don't overthink it.
Just see what happens again. Trust that you will overcome
(49:14):
any obstacles as they come to you. You'll instinctively know
whether you are sticking to your values of the challenge
or not. And I guess within that, think about what
you want to get out of it. What is the
feeling that you have around your clothes? Yeah, you relate,
but what does it feel like for you? What are
the examples of the things that you relate to, What
(49:34):
items in your wardrobe maybe making you.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Think about your fantasy self? What does your fantasy self
look like? How does your.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Shopping and your style, your relationship with style kind of
relate to everything else in your life. You know, for me,
it was those body image issues. It was growing up
through diet culture, through you know that touched my money
in a lot of ways, and this was that one
lingering thing. A story I tell a lot is a
story that's very generously shared in the book from somebody
from my accountability program, and she had left a toxic
relationship and she realized that her fantasy self was actually
(50:08):
not her fantasy self, but his fantasy of what she
should have done. Wow, And like, there are so many ways,
depending on what stage of life you're at, a lot
of people experience the fantasy self when they become a
mum because they're so you know, that's like next level
of women's standards of everything that you should be when
you become a mother, and the identity shift that you
(50:29):
go through and the lifestyle shift that you go through.
COVID was a big one at the time, you know,
for me, thinking about how maybe your buying patterns are
relating to other things happening in your life that can
kind of help you find what you're looking for. In
doing the challenge, I'd be careful of doing it just
to get the satisfaction of doing it. I'm sure that
can be very enjoyable. But I think you need to
(50:49):
go with a question that you're looking to answer in
a way to get that really deep learning out of it.
But you know, it doesn't need to be a year.
It could be a month. And I think a big
one is know your behavioral style, Like I said before,
I'm somebody that does very well with a challenge with abstinence,
partly because I want to do for work. Yeah, it
becomes content for me. It helps me examine, you know.
(51:11):
I'm fascinated by why we do what we do, why
we lie, So that helps for me. But if you're
the type of person that needs a three item buffer,
work with that. Like you know yourself better than I know.
You make like set yourself up a success rather than
trying to do what someone else has done. Because it
sounds good. Yeah, yeah, it's got to be very personal
to you.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Like your style. I love that.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
And what a beautiful little bow to title up in.
I have loved this chat, and I thank you so
much for coming in and sharing. I honestly it's been
such a joy to have you in.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Thank you so much for having me. I could yap
about this all day.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
I have to come back. I know so many of
our community members are going to be exactly like me
and wanting to dive deeper into this. So we'll pop
a link for the wardrobe project in the show notes
so you can grab your copy. I honestly, I think
I'll be doing this challenge in twenty twenty six, and
if you enjoyed this episode, please send it to a
friend who might need a little to rethink their shopping
habits or their overflowing wardrobe. Don't forget to hit subscribe
(52:04):
so you never miss an episode, and check out all
of Emma's links that will have down there as well.
So thank you for listening, everybody, and we're back for
another episode on Friday. Hi guys, h.
Speaker 5 (52:20):
The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Advice tailored towards your needs.
Speaker 5 (52:41):
Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives
of Money showper pty Ltd ABN three two one IS
six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL four
five one two eight nine.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
He would you want to lead Room
My name is Tatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations
woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young Ganya, Niana,
Kaka yah y and beIN Ahaka Nian our gay In Nimbini,
yakarum Jar, Dominyama, Umagahawakaman, damon Imlan Bumba, bang Gadabomba in
and now in wakah Ghana on yak rum Jar water Nadaa. Hello,
(00:22):
beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
We thank acknowledge and respect the Aberiginal people's land that
we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
knowledge and resources for you to thrive.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that's here to help you spend, save and invest in
line with your values. No, I am not Victoria Devine
and she's not even here today. I've given her the
day off because I wanted to do something special. I'm
Jess Ricky and today we're talking about something that sits
right at the intersection of money, identity, and self worth.
(01:29):
Our wardrobes. You know that feeling when you're staring at
a closet full of clothes but still think to yourself, oh,
I've got nothing to wear. Well, my guest today knows
it better than anyone. She's someone we've had on. She's
on the money before. She's the founder of the Broke
Generation and the author of the brand new brook The
Wardrobe Project, A year Buying Less and Liking yourself More.
I've invited Emma Edwards into the studio today to talk
(01:52):
about how a No Bay Yar changed not just her wardrobe,
but her entire relationship with spending, confidence, and identity. Welcome
back to the show, Emma.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thank you so much for having me again. Oh just
to move so excited to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I have been an avid follower of the whole Wardrobe journey,
from when you did it your very first short challenge,
all the way through. I cannot tell you how excited
I am to talk to you a bit more about
it and what you've learned and the book.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
It's been a long time coming, I think because I
did the original challenge in like twenty twenty three. Yeah,
documented it all and now it's immortalized in a book.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
As it should be. And I feel like it's exactly
as I said. It's something that so many of us
can relate to, right, Like that feeling of standing in
your closet and looking at like killos and killos of clothes.
I mean, like there's nothing in here, not one suitable
thing is crazy. So I'm very excited to get your
thoughts on how we can kind of work around our
mindset on that. But before we start, I wanted to
go back to who you were before the Wardrobe project.
(02:46):
Can you paint me a little bit of a picture
of the old Emma Edwards, not just the kind of
shopper that you were, but what you were going through
I guess on a deeper level.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
All the way back. I mean it's a funny one
for me. I think writing a book like this and
doing this challenge because everyone's like, didn't you write the
book called Good with Money?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Like aren't you meant to be really good at money?
Speaker 5 (03:05):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
No?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And I think that's where it got really interesting for
me because for me, before this challenge.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know, way we were back.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Was a hot money mess, I always called myself, but
kind of in the year leading up to the challenge specifically,
I'd done so much work on my finances. I've got
so many of my ducks in a row, but there
was just this one kind of nagging area of spending
and my kind of I guess behavior that was still
I don't want to say a problem, but it wasn't
(03:35):
kind of fitting into the same boxes that the other
things that I'd worked on in my money had. I
wasn't spending money I didn't have anymore, but I was
still buying things with this sort of cycle of an
emotional high followed by a crash. And I used to
kind of do that with all kinds of things, and
my money in general would be very chaotic. But I
(03:57):
started to get on top of that sort of in
twenty eighty and I started that journey. End of twenty nineteen,
I paid off my debt. Then twenty twenty, you know,
we started to have lockdowns and things, but I was
lucky enough to keep my job and I was side
hustling at the time, so you know, I was saving
and I was still making that kind of progress. But
I think particularly here in Melbourne. You know, by twenty
twenty two, we were only a deep breath away from
(04:19):
the last lockdown.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It simultaneously feels so long ago, and also it honestly
feels like yesterday as well. I can't begin to explain it.
Trying to tell people who weren't here during those lockdowns
feels impossible.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Exactly, especially when I tell this timeline and I was like, yeah,
you know, twenty twenty two, I started to think about
doing this year without buying clothes, and they're like, what
do you mean that was right after lockdown.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I'm like, we came out of lockdown October twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Yeah, and we didn't know if we were going to
you know, the first half of twenty twenty two, we
were like, well, when's the next one? Like, when's Lockdown seven?
And I think, like a lot of women, I had
an interesting experience during lockdown in that my relationship with
my body was just like thrown into.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
The dumpster fire.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I discovered getting wine delivered to my house. I drank
a lot ate, a lot of cheese, and like I've
always been like a bigger gal, like a little.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Bit chunky or whatever.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
But I was sort of around that the same time,
you know, getting back to the point of like accepting
my body's natural set point. And you know, I'd had
just sort of eating problems in the past, I'd sort
of really made good progress on, but then being stuck
inside and kind of dealing with rapid body changes as
well as kind of going back out into the world
and back into work and nothing fitting. And you know,
(05:31):
loads of people bought clothes online during COVID even though
we had nowhere to go.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I was one of those people.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Small bit of joy, any bit of joy we could.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Get, literally, And I really went through this sort of
cycle of trying to reinvent myself and wanting to emerge
from lockdown a different person or a more polished person,
or you know, really wanting to like put this. I
guess it's probably something to do with wanting to make
all of that lost time mean something. I went into
lockdown in my twenties came out in my thirties, Yeah, wow,
(05:58):
And that was you know, everybody's got their own kind
of experience with the years that they missed, but yeah,
for me, I'd had a lot of things I wanted
to feel about myself by the time I was thirty,
and I don't think I would have got them anyway
because of where that feeling was coming from. But I
think lockdown made that even worse. And so, yeah, before
the challenge, I was really in this cycle of constantly
reinventing myself and buying things for the person that I
(06:20):
wanted to be, and kind of having this idea in
my head of what something was going to look like
on me or what it was going to change, you know,
how it was going to change my life, the lifestyle
it was going to give me, and then not getting that, yeah,
And that's when I started to think, Oh, this is
really lingering. This is one part of my behavior that
I'm not able to control. Sounds really restrictive, but I
don't feel good about yeah, And that's when I started
(06:42):
to think about what would it be like to just
not buy anything for a whole year.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
And that's a very radical thought to have, especially in
this day and age, I feel, because exactly what you
were touching on. I guess the broader psychology of it
all is, you know, so much of marketing leans into
you're going to feel a satin way become a certain
person by owning this product. It's this idea that we're
sold by influencers, by brands, by everything, but the thought
of making it through a whole year. I remember when
(07:08):
you first announced it on your Instagram because I followed
you forever. I remember when you said it. I was like, conceptually,
I love it, but I simply could never do it
because I feel like it's so hard for me to
imagine stepping outside of the consumers. And I guess and
I wouldn't consider myself like a crazy consumer. I try
to be very mindful and very conscious, but you're totally right,
(07:30):
like the way that it all plays into our broader
perception of ourselves, you know, and what that means. Stepping
away from that and saying no, I'm not going to
buy it at all is almost unfathomable to me. And
I don't feel great about that.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
No, I'm glad that, you know, when you speak to
somebody that really relates to the things that I'm saying,
they're like, wow, yours. Get a couple of people that
are like, oh, I haven't bought clothed since nineteen seventy nine,
and I'm like grid very hard bright, Yeah, good for you,
and it's one of those things that you know, we
kind of a lot of people experience this kind of
borderline addictive cycle with buying clothes and things or buying
(08:05):
anything associated to your identity.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
But we don't really talk about it.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And I'm so I'm always so stunned that we are
so willing nowadays to examine our behavior and examine ourself
sabotaging patterns in every single area apart from spending.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
We're so secretive about it with spending, and.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
We pretend that we've got it all together, or we
justify things and say, oh, you know, it's this or
it's that, and it's okay because X, Y and z.
But there's actually so much to be learned about yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Through the way that you're spending.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
And I think while a lot of women's spending, the
things that we buy are seen as frivolous, but also
examining your spending is also seen as a frivolous pursuit.
A lot of the time, I'll get sort of like,
it's not mockery, but it's sort.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Of momentary from people, yeah that oh.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
You're you know, how dare you talk about what women
are buying when there's actually so much to be learned,
and there's a lot of them to be found when
you unparck why you're buying things.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, and also, don't punish us for being a product
of the net that you built for us, in the
box that you built for us. It really, I think
disproportionately impacts women because of you know, the generations and
generations of patriarchy, and women should look a certain way,
like you can't go into the office without looking put together,
your hair, you're done, your makeup, your outfit, like all
(09:25):
of these things that are put on us. But then
as soon as you care about it or want to
break it down or want to examine it, it's, oh, well,
don't be silly. They don't be frivolous. It's really interesting.
I think the way that that impacts everybody. It sounds
like you had to set yourself some ground rules to
get going. So you've decided to do this challenge, You've gone,
I want to step back, I want to figure it
all out. What rules did you put in place for yourself?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I'll just kind of add on a bit. You
know a lot of people go what made you decide
to actually do it?
Speaker 4 (09:52):
And aside from the fact that it was getting towards
the end of the year and I had the opportunity
to do a really clean Jan to December. Yeah, I
was in the UK for the last month of twenty
twenty two, and i'd been back twice that year because
it was the first time since twenty nineteen. So I
was like, oh, the borders were open, let's go. And
I kind of realized that i'd been thinking about it.
(10:13):
But the thing that really was the nail in the
coffin was I was, you know, shopping around. I love
to shop in the UK because they've got a lot
more plus size options than we had here in Australia.
I was sort of seeing all these things and it
was a different season to when I was there the
last time, and I was thinking, oh, you know, having
all these you know, creative stories evolving in my head
of how great these things were going to look. And
I was suddenly struck by the fact that I had
(10:34):
those same thoughts about the things that I bought when
I was there the last time into but now those
things were not as special as I thought they were
going to be, or they were, as I would later learn,
like quite big purchase mistakes and That's when I kind
of thought, yeah, I think there's really going to be
something valuable here. So I embarked on it from January first,
twenty twenty three, and my rules were it was specifically clothing.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
And a lot of people go, why wasn't it you know,
why wasn't it a no buy about everything? And firstly,
I think that would be really hard and really restrictive,
but also a bit like I'd said, you know, I'd
worked on so many areas of my spending and I
wasn't over consuming in skin care or beauty or even
you know, I'd stopped using takeaway apps for a period
of time, and I found that really helped. I'm quite
good at a challenge environment to really step back and
(11:21):
examine why I'm doing things. I find that abstinence really
helps me do that. And so clothes were a really
specific part of it. It wasn't shoes, it wasn't bags,
it was specifically clothes. In fact, I probably under consumed
in accessories to the point that I wasn't, you know,
tying outfits together. It was all about, I think, because
it was so deeply related to my body image. Yeah,
and my relationship with my body. It was the clothes
(11:43):
that with a thing. So I didn't specifically ban shoes,
although I later did bring in a shoe band just
because I found I was flirting a little bit with
you know, oh, I can't buy close to what look
at shoes and I was thinking, oh, you know, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I think I bought a pair of Crocs during the year.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And again is it really? They're not like an outfit.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
So I wasn't too worried about that, but it was
very specifically no clothes. And I also banned second hand
shopping because a lot of people were like, oh, why
don't you just do you secondhand or you know, I'm
doing it too, but just secondhand. But the problem I
had with secondhand that was that it was just permission
to consume. It's like over consumption with a clean conscience
for me, and the thrill of the hunt and the
(12:26):
dopamine seeking and the you know that all of the
barriers that would usually stop you buying clothes, you know, price, availability, size,
you know, those sorts of things were all gone when
I was thrifting, because it was such a if you
found something that you liked that fit on, that was
a good price. It probably wasn't too expensive because the
stores are generally cheaper, or it's on deep Op or
(12:46):
Marketplace or vinted or wherever you're listening. But also there's
this intense scarcity, so like our brains produce scarcity to
help us justify purchases anyway, and we'll think, oh, he's
going to sell out or is this But in a
thrift store, you know it genuinely is going to be gone.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
There's one of them.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
You can't do you think about it for twenty four
hours or wait till next week, or buy it on
payday necessarily. So I thought, let's just cut all of that.
And I had a lot of feedback from people being like, oh,
why don't you allow yourself three items or this or that?
And I kind of thought, you know, I had so
many people, but what if this?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
What if that?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
And I just thought, I'm just going to deal with
all of it if it happens. If I get invited
to a cowgirl party, I will deal with them when
it happens. There's a high chance that I won't. I'm
not a particularly sociable person. I didn't have a jam
packed social calendar so on Saturday night not likely, and
you know your brain kind.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Of goes, oh, well, what if I get invited to
a black tie? Then I thought, I'll just cross that
bridge when I come to it.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
If I have to borrow something, if I have to
buy one thing because I genuinely had nothing else, I
still think there's benefit. So I really just went in
all guns placing wow and said no clothes at all.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I think there's so much merit in removing those barriers too,
and just say well, exactly dead, Like, if something comes up,
I can figure it out. I'm choosing to do this challenge.
It's the journey that I'm going on. And if that
had change over the course of the year, that's not
a bad thing. I think you still would have had
the opportunity to take a lot of learnings from it.
But exactly the dedication that setting yourself up for success,
I think is such an important part.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
There's a big self trust piece as well. I think, Yeah,
a lot of people go, what if my weight changes
or what or what if that? I think, just trust
that you will know whether you are buying something because
you're cheating, or whether you're buying something because you genuinely
need to. Yeah, I think once you really commit fully
to the challenge, and that is a huge you know,
it's a big thing in behavior change. Committing to the
changes is the whole part of it. There's the change
(14:34):
that you do, but there's also the commitment that you make.
There's a lot to be said about just saying you
know what, I'm going to try it.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Getting on the horse is the hardest part, and if
you fall off, you can just get back on.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
How did those first few months feel Was there a
point where it got really hard? Did you feel like
there was a transition period where you were having these
impulses to do things that you were battling against.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I found the first couple of months were hard in
that I could just see how long I had to go.
I was like, Oh, I've done it and I've said
it online, so I've got to do it.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Do it now.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Yeah, But at the same time, I was finding a
lot of joy in putting together outfits I hadn't worn before.
And that's why I do recommend people even try it,
even just for a month, because there's a lot to
be found in your wardrobe just by going, Wow, I've
really got to get creative here. So the first couple
of months were pretty easy. You know, in Australia it
was summer at that time, so you know, the things
(15:27):
you wear for the first couple of months of the year,
first two three months of the year about the same.
The time I found it hard was when we got
to sort of April May and the season started to change.
I had realized that I was looking outside of my
wardrobe then for I guess signals of what to wear.
You know, when you get really out of the habit
of wearing a certain season of clothes.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
You're looking for inspo. What are the people wearing?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and you hit that point where you're like, what
are shoes that aren't sandals? Yeah? You know what I mean,
You're like, what do I wear?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
How do I cover my arms?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I have no sleeves.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah, you're just not in the cycle of it. That's
when I found the temptation that the strongest, because I
started to realize that, I think a change of season,
there's this shortcut available to you in shops when you
feel like you've got nothing to wear, there's this shortcut
and you go, oh, just get a couple of basics,
should get a couple of cardigans, a lople of jumpers.
I'll just get a couple of pairs of jeans or
(16:21):
whatever it is, and it sort of patches up that
resistance that we feel to not feeling connected to our wardrobes.
For that season, that was when I started to find
it the hardest. And then there was sort of a
period after that where I'd really pushed my wardrobe to
the limit. I'd really you know, you run out of
combinations eventually, of course, and then I had to really
(16:42):
start rewaring. And while I got a lot of enjoyment
out of that and satisfaction in a way, but also
just neutrality. I kind of accepted that I just didn't
have to feel good about what I was wearing all
the time, and that having a few things that I
did like, I could just keep reaching for those. I
have found this new type of joy in really loving
(17:03):
something and wearing it again. I just it sounds so ridiculous,
but I just hadn't experienced that, you know, that dopamine rush,
that enjoyment. Yeah, outside of something new, I relied on
novelty a lot in my wardrobe.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And it's such a it's again like such a societal
thing it's the don't you do. You don't want someone
to see that you in an outfit that you've worn before.
You need to find a different way to wear it.
But there is something really lovely about knowing like, these
are my favorite genes and I wear these genes twice
a week every week, and I should feel good about that.
I should feel good about my cost per use, being like,
I should feel good about the fact that I made
(17:36):
a good purchase decision for something that I will get
a lot of wear out of. But it's very interesting
that you're yeah, you're saying that typically wouldn't give the
dope mean here.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
You're so right.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
We're always looking for that new thing, but that dove
mean from the new item disappears so quickly, and that's
where we get stuck buying again and again because we're
chasing it.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
And I, you know, I sort of explore a bit
in the book about this idea of having nothing to wear,
and when we look at the connection between beliefs and behavior,
if we allow ourselves to believe that we have nothing
to wear because we are buying the wrong things, because
we haven't organized our wardrobe properly, because it's a change
of season and we feel like we have nothing to wear.
(18:16):
A very logical response to that is to buy more stuff. Yeah,
but I think it's something really interesting happens when you
realize that the solution that makes logical sense is obviously
not working, because if you keep buying more but you
still don't have anything to wear, there's a missing piece somewhere.
For me, it was that, you know, buying to be
somebody I wish that I was buying to hide my flaws,
(18:37):
buying for the novelty, buying for the dopamine hit. And
I think when I started to realize that there was
so much joy to be had in actually seeing how
I looked in my clothes and wearing clothes because I
liked how they looked on me, rather than because I
liked the idea of them. Yes, especially being a bigger
woman and I have some size privilege, I do fit
(18:58):
into some mainstream stores. But even then, when I look
at pieces of clothing online, nineteen times out of one hundred,
they're on a slimmer model, which only fed this idea
of what it was supposed to look like. So I'd
be all hopped up when I'd buy something thinking I
was going to look like that, and then I wouldn't
look like that, And sort of that, combined with everything
(19:21):
else that was going on with that sort of spending pattern,
that just fueled this cycle of try again, try again,
try again, and every time I had my hopes up
that I was going to look like this image in
my head that I kind of came to refer to
as the fantasy self.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Which I'm sure we'll talk about later.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Yes, yeah, breaking that down. And it's interesting. The cutting
off the consumption played a really interesting role in intercepting
that behavior. A lot of people go, well, what if
I stop buying? But what do I do about all
the other emotional stuff when you stop feeding it?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
When buying.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
A lot of it neutralizes quite naturally on its own.
Overtime doesn't happen overnight. We want it to happen overnight.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Despite the yeal on challenge.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Why it's a year, It really needed to be a year.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, it's And the crazy thing is those models also
that we're all looking at don't look how No, most
because if you've ever been to a you know, an
e Comma shoot, they're pinned in with these giant clips
or they're photoshopping things they're wearing, shoes that are two
sizes to be. It's all again, it's all in the
power of marketing. But I want to ask you a
bit more about this fantasy self exactly as you just said.
(20:23):
Can you tell me a little bit more about her,
what she was for you and that role that she
does play in your spending.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
The fantasyself was something I started to tease out. Again.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
This is why said it had to be a year,
because this is where I started to see these patterns
in what I was buying. I have a whole sort
of section in the book where I've got all these
categories of things that are hanging in our wardrobes and
the stories that they're telling. And a big one for
me was these fantasy items that were things I would
buy again and again and again to try and emulate
(20:52):
this look that I had in my head. And it's
often the opposite of who we are, or it has
certain aspects of ourselves that we wish that we could change.
Sometimes it's a height thing, sometimes its size thing, you know.
For me, my fantasy self was always this sort of
complete antithesis to me, like tall, lanky, slim bean pole
when I'm literally.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Lik really crazy that one hundred percent, but I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
It's like I only saw clothes through the lens of
her and never me, And I think that's why the
year was so powerful, because something else that I did
was when I wore outfits that I liked, I took
a photo of them and added them to an album
on my phone so I could refer back to them,
and doing that made me see my clothes through the
lens of myself for the first time. I don't think
(21:40):
that we realized how little were actually looking at ourselves previously.
When I'd look in the mirror or I'd assess how
I felt about an outfit, it was benchmarked against that
fantasy subconsciously. Of course, we're not thinking these things in
real time. But that was why I didn't feel good
about the way that I looked, because I felt like
I looked wrong and I had to try and change it,
and the easiest short cut for that was to buy something,
(22:02):
and so looking like sort of seeing myself in a
different way.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I think the year.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Didn't allow me to really engage with the fantasy self
because I couldn't. I engaged with her through buying, and
I bought for her, but I didn't get to do
that through the whole year, and so what was left
was me, and I realized by the end of the year,
I was like, wow, my body image is so much
better than it used to be, just really gradually, and
(22:33):
I thought, there can't be a coincidence, because I haven't
been putting my body on trial through you know, women's
sizing is. Oh, so I haven't been putting my body
on trial for what fits. I haven't been putting my
body on trial against this fantasy of what I wish
I looked like or what I thought I wish I
looked like. I haven't been comparing myself to the picture online.
I haven't been getting my hopes up and then putting
(22:54):
it on and being disappointed. All of that stripped away
gave me this room to actually see myself, and that's
when I could start seeing clothes in a way that
was I feel good in this, rather than oh, this
isn't that quite how I wanted or you know, anybody
with thick thighs will know that trying to embrace the
(23:15):
straight leg jean trend, all jeans are skinnies, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Wide, baggy, baggy or skinny.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
There's no in between mum jeans don't know barrel leg.
I don't mind because barrel leg look like mom jeans giving.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
But I know what you mean.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I was trying, you know, my thing always and I
don't even think there's this term anymore. It'll probably come
back around again with the styles. But there was always
this style of cigarette trousers, sort of pencils tapered. That's
what I always wanted, but.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Just didn't it work for me. And now you know,
I would resist.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
The wide leg for some reason because I don't know
that was playing into what my body really is. And
I was almost addicted to trying to be different. But
the year kind of took all of that pressure away
and I actually found at first piece with who I was,
but down the line a lot of joy. And now
(24:10):
when I get dressed, you know, I wear the same
things over and over again, and I'm more. This was
kind of a realization that I had towards the end
of the year, or more sort of even in the
year after, where I was able to buy again. I
like my clothes that I have more than the things
I see in stores. When I think about going to
an event that used to be like great perfect excuse
to go and buy something new, Whereas now I'm like,
(24:31):
I can't wait to wear that dress because I don't
get to wear it often because it is more formal.
I can't wait to wear that. I know exactly what
I'm wearing. Even for this today, I know exactly what
I'm wearing.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
It never used to be like that.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
And when you don't feel like that, that's where all
of those marketing messages hit you, and they were it
works so well. You've only got to walk around Chadstone
or any shopping center.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I looked at this the other day. I was walking
around and I thought, eighty percent of these stores, if
not more, are for women.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
There is We're huge consumers where it's such a huge
segment of the market. It's an industry that's been built
though on making us feel like shit about ourselves, and
that's why it's so profitable. I think for them, was
it confronting to slowly make that realization about all of
these I guess suppressed subconscious feelings about yourself, because as
(25:18):
you were talking about, I was deeply, honestly relating to
the fact that if I think on it really introspectively,
the relationship that I have to my clothes and my
wardrobe and shopping. I think is very similar to what
all I'm hearing is that I need to do this challenge. Yeah,
but I think there are a lot of things in
terms of my self perception and self worth that maybe
(25:39):
I don't feel so great about that really feed into that,
and I don't like that's quite uncomfortable to think about.
Was it hard to make those considerations and move through
them or have those realizations?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I suppose yeah, it was in a way, especially when
you kind of consider the environmental impact of consumption, and
you know, I think kind of icky when I go,
this wasn't a sustainability challenge, and it kind of was
in a collateral way. But I did it from a
finance and a behavior perspective. I found that the sustainability was,
you know, an added benefit. But I think that there
(26:12):
really is something to be said about the behavioral aspect
of sustainability, So I guess that's just on that. But yeah,
it was confronting to realize I think how long I'd
been subconsciously stuck in that cycle and how something that
I thought I enjoyed, you know, I'd make these excuses sometimes, Oh,
I just.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Like clothes, I love fashion, I love fashionion girl.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, when really I just you know, I say this
in the book. I thought that I liked fashion, but
I actually just liked buying. And I think you hit
home that's when you're getting the most joy from your
clothes when you're buying. You don't love fashion and you
just love buying. There's you know, you can absolutely love both,
and you can shift that love of buying into into style.
(26:55):
But yeah, it was It was confronting, but it was
also almost a relief in a way because I had
finally understood the link between those things and why I
was doing these things. And I think, you know, it
helped in a way that I got the benefit in
real time. I sort of had the realization that I
had this problematic cycle, but at the same time as
(27:16):
experiencing the other side of it, so.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
You could really prove through. Yeah, that's incredible. There are
so many great lines, great catchphrases that you have that
really sit and resonate. One that I particularly loved was
the concept of outsourcing your identity to consumption, which we've
kind of just touched on, but I think there's so
much power in that state, like you're really calling it
for what it is.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Whenever I say that line, a lot of women relate.
And I think that it's, as you say, confronting in
a way to realize that we've kind of often pieced
together the version of ourselves that we try to be
through buying. And I talk in the book a bit
about the term put together. A lot of women say
they want to look put together. And while I, you know,
(27:59):
I on the surface, that makes complete sense, and I
think the term put together that there's merit to it,
especially in a professional environment or when you're putting together
your favorite pieces. But there's almost like a slightly sinister
undertone to that term.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Of put together.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
And I kind of marrit it up with the term
polished that a lot of other women relate to that.
You know, we are sort of piecing ourselves together with
things that are sold to us, and I kind of
sometimes question if we weren't putting ourselves together with all
of these elements that are constantly sold, where would the
billions of dollars go.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, and there's so much power I think for the
big corps, the big companies that not to put my
tinfoil hat on. But you know, there's a lot out there.
I think for these huge corporations in keeping women feeling
bad about themselves. Keeping is consuming, Keeping is not looking,
you know, at what is causing those things moving past
that because that's what puts money in their pockets.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, at the end of the day, and I think
as well, keeping us. You know, a lot of people
are kind of go oh. Companies aren't sitting there thinking
about how they can make for bad about ourselves. But
I think as long as the goalposts are moving, that's
all that matters. Yeah, as long as we are in
that position of feeling the way we do about ourselves
by consuming or consuming being a part of that, playing
(29:14):
a role in that, that's all you need because there's
always something more to be sold. There's a piece that
comes from, which is what the challenge is really saying
I have enough and the link between having enough and
being enough. When you say that you have enough, you're
sort of subconsciously saying, well, I am enough as well.
(29:34):
I don't need to buy new things, to go to
that work event, to have my birthday to be seen
in any way, I am enough with the things I
already have. And there's an interesting link there is.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
That one of the biggest things you'd say the experiment
taught you about, like the impulse control and emotional side.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Of it all.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah, I think there's you know, there's that deep emotional side,
and then there's also sort of the whipped cream on top.
Is that just you know, that quick dopamine hit, but
buying something online or getting a little treat or whatever,
you know, that's sometimes very you know, flash in a
pan that's very real. It doesn't necessarily mean there's a
ton of emotional stuff going on that can still be
quite real. I think there's two parts of it to
(30:14):
unpack the deepest stuff, the deep cycles of what you're
buying and why you're buying. And then there's really watching
that sort of cycle of little treat, cycle of dopamine,
but again stepping back and creating more distance between the
last hit and the next hit that can break the
cycle as well. And it's something I did during the
year was what I called exposure therapy, and I'd go
into the shop, sort brows online and allow myself.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
To meet that desire.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
And yeah, there's a lot of mental peace that comes
from just saying I'm not even going to entertain buying this.
That was probably one of the most surprising things actually,
you know, in a impulse control sense, there's also that,
you know that meatia emotional stuff, but realizing how free
(31:00):
it was to just not be buying.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I could see someone's.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Jacket, it didn't matter. It didn't have to go on
Google lens and stop putting it through. I didn't have
to google where's that from? Oh that looks like that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Oh it's out of stock. Oh they've got it. What's
it called? High point? Can I be bothered to go
all the way over that? These loops I would jump
through all the time. Oh I want it for Saturday?
Will it get delivered in time?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It's never ending, the thoughts. The noise of it all
is the noise, and I have more questions about that.
But I think we should jump to a really quick break,
and when we come back, I want to dive a
little bit more deeply into all those concepts that don't
go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody. I'm chatting with Emma Edwards,
who has just released her book The Wardrobe Project, all
(31:42):
about her year of buying no clothing.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Now.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I have been wondering a little bit when you took
buying out of the equation, did you notice other areas
of your life, like time or creativity or happiness also
started to shift.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yes, I found you know, I had that mental peace
that I talked about before.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
That just sort of, I don't know, it just felt
a lot lighter in general. But obviously I was, you know,
hyper focused on the challenge. I was talking about it online.
You know, that was obviously quite palpable. I think the
other sort of area is I found a new sense
of creativity, not just in my wardrobe, but I also
I took up sewing again. I used to sew with
(32:26):
my gran when I was younger, because I would go
to her house when I was on school holidays or whatever.
And she died when I was fifteen, so I didn't
sort of pick it up again, but I'd always wanted to.
And you know, again, I could have done that at
any point. But I just don't think it's a coincidence
that I found the time the focus. You know, I'm
very big on making a list of things I'm going
(32:48):
to do and.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Not doing that.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
I don't think it's a coincidence that I was able
to engage with that during the year because I think
it took I think the challenge took a lot of
urgency out of the way I was relating to clothes
or even projects. And I think previously I was kind
of going, oh, I must start sewing again, but it's
going to take so long to make one top, or like,
(33:11):
I can't you know that thing about not wanting to
be bad at something.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Oh, yes, I won't be able to wear it out
because it's not going to look like when I got
at the store.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yes, Whereas I think the sense of slowness gave me
a sense of patience to learn. Take that up in
a way that you know, it directly fed into what
I was trying to do as well. I did have
a rule within the challenge that I could buy fabric again.
I had to do so mindfully. A lot of people go, oh,
I took up sewing and I couldn't stop my fabric.
You do have to be careful of that fabric's expensive.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But yeah, there was. It was a very creative year.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I think because you've removed some of the noise that feels,
I feel like it takes up again subconsciously, so much
room in your brain. All those things exactly you were
saying the hoops of where I want this, but where
can I get an Oh, down a stock maybe I'll
drive to the inside the city, or being borrowed from
someone I.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Can lend it online.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
There's a lot of a lot of volume in your head,
I imagine once you finally figure out how to switch
that off.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Yeah it is, and I'm yeah, now I'm thinking now
you've asked me that, I'm thinking, oh, what did I
do with that sort of mental peace?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
But you know, I noticed you could have just enjoyed it,
that's okay.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
And I'd noticed it a lot, you know, if there
would be an event or someone's birthday or wedding and
I just you know, people going to watch I wear
on popping over to chance and to look for this,
and I was just kind of like, I'm done.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I know what I'm wearing, and like, oh course you
know what you're wearing. But sounds lovely. Yeah, it was great. God,
was there a moment.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Or something you realized during that year that completely rewired
your mindset where you thought, oh my gosh, now that
I've seen this, I can't see it, like that switch
just flipped.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I think it was seeing those patterns in my wardrobe.
And I think, you know, coming back to something you
asked earlier, was there a point where it about hard.
There was a point, probably seven or eight months in
where the penny had dropped on how I was buying
the wrong things, so chasing that fantasy self buying things.
(35:05):
You know, another thing I would do would be buy
If I liked something in black, I'd go and buy
it in every color. I used to do this too, yes,
Or I'd go and buy a very similar version to
something else because I couldn't find the one I wanted.
Where's my stripeytop, I'll just buy another one, oh my god?
Or you know, little things like I wanted. You know,
(35:26):
at one point I wanted a pair of like white
off white jeans, and I couldn't find any that I
liked that fitted, partly because I was chasing that tape
of look. But that's neither here nor there. But I
found a pair in Suzanne of all places, very generous
on the sizing, and they fit. They weren't quite what
I wanted, but I wanted to wear white jeans so
(35:47):
badly that I bought them.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Heard them.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
So I think when the penny dropped on that, I
was kind of eager to get out and I kind
of thought, oh, I know now why I hate my
clothes all the time, because I'm buying for all the
wrong reasons, buying all the wrong stuff. And so I
had these things that I did like, but that was
quite a limited wardrobe. Everything else I could see the
issues with, and I wore them anyway, and you know,
(36:13):
I really pushed those to the limits. But I started
to compile this sort of list of yeses and noes,
so like really specific things about clothes, like the length
that I like, the type of sleeve, the type of fabric,
the type of fabric weight, Like I really knew what
good purchases were going to be for me now. Yeah,
And at that point I kind of wanted to rush
out and go, oh, let me test this out and
you know, buy the right things. So that kind of
(36:36):
got quite difficult. But that penny dropping of where the
patterns of buying had been really wrong, that kind of
really changed the course of the challenge because I could
see then a time after the challenge which I had
to start entertaining towards the end of the year, because
I kind of thought, God, what now, like what am
I going to be like, am I going to repeat?
Am I going to go back to the way I was?
(36:56):
Am I going to repeat all the same patterns? And
I think realizing that those things which sound practical but
actually when you marry it up with that emotional stuff,
make a lot of sense. Yeah, that's when I started
to kind of think, Ah, I've really made a breakthrough here,
because I have so many reasons now not to go
back to the way that I was, because there's an alternative. Yeah,
(37:19):
and I now think that I know how to buy
things mindfully that I do want to keep wearing. And
that's really how that was the turning point that got
me to where I am now.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, were you nervous at any point about coming to
the end of your yark? Because I think for a
lot of people, when you do any kind of restrictive challenge,
whether it be clothing or finance, or even for people
who do fitness challenges and things, there's this, I guess,
very common storyline where you do it, you push really hard,
you get through it, and you get to the end
and you blow out. You know, you have your huge Yeah,
(37:52):
exactly right. Were you ever concerned that that would be
the case, or were you so steadfast in what you
learned that you just knew that it was going to
change your approach completely.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I was concerned because you can't, you know, you can't
take the fish out of water, Like we're still live
in a world where there is more and more and more.
We are still seeing everybody's lives on social media. There
is still somebody's latest affiliate link that I can click,
and there's still those external inputs.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So I knew that, you know.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I actually say in the book that the challenge really
began the year after because then I had to consume
mindfully and you know, there were certain things I wanted
to replace in my wardrobe, but I had to be
careful not to go crazy or be over I was
a bit overconfident at one point as well.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I think, or I can't.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Possibly make a bad decision, whereas you know, a couple
of misses throughout that year when I did buy a
few things.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
What were those things? Can you tell me, like, was
is there something that comes to mind that you bought
that You're like, ah, that was a bad and you
know now you can you know why?
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yeah, I mean it's a hard one because it was
partly as well. The fabric wasn't it was a bit
of a letdown. There was some practical.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Aspects to it.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
Just missed the mark, just miss the mark. Like it
was a It was a suit, sort of a linen
blend suit. Yes, that I got on a really good
price and I fit really nicely and I was really
happy with it. Got it in the UK actually, and
something about when I hung it out the sun changed
the color of the white. Yeah, because I washed the
trousers a lot more than the jacket. Yeah, and the
color change. So there was that aspect, but there was another.
(39:22):
I just sort of I look at it and I'm like,
I could have lived about that better. Yeah, Like I
wear it because this is the other kind of thing
I learned to you know, things don't have to be
absolutely perfect. Wearing things can change your opinion of them.
I pulled a lot of things out of my donate pile.
Oh I love that, And I said this, you know,
I run this accountability challenge as well with other women
(39:44):
in the group, and a lot of people have their
own kind of experience with these concepts. But something universally true,
aside from when you've had a drastic change in size.
Usually there's some treasure in your donate pile because we
get rid of things very very quickly because the novelties
worn off because we want an excuse to buy something else.
But yeah, I kind of got a lot. Sorry, I
(40:06):
can't remember what you actually originally asked.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Me coming to NY and I'm love it you every
minute of it.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Now.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I said it was like, was there a specific item,
which I think you did answer like, yeah, the suit.
You're bound to fall off though, too, I think as well,
like when you're changing the way that you fundamentally consume,
like there's going to be some learning curves. I think
it's so impressive that you can say, after coming out
of that whole year, you know, there are a couple
of swings and missus, but overall, like you're really happy
(40:33):
and you know what you need and what you look
for well enough to shop really effectively.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Now, yes, the way I consume is and that's kind
of how I forgave myself for not being on, you know,
on the mark every single time.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And you know the way the money if you are
fundamentally different.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Yeah, But I think the other challenge I had, which
is actually how I ended up doing the challenge again
this year with slightly modified rules, is that again you
can't take the fish out of water, like there is
still so much more, more and more. When I learned
to buy better, I had to. I did a mini
freeze during the year, just three months where I didn't
buy anything else because one, I was craving that piece
because there were so many things, but also two, you
(41:11):
still only need a certain amount of clothes. So I
had learned to buy well and buy things that I
would really want to wear. The ability to over consume
is still so easy that I almost was getting even
though it was more useful things I was buying. I
was almost kind of had to be careful not to
(41:33):
over consume good things because I'd had this pattern of
over consuming all the wrong things and that's what kept
me reconsuming.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, Whereas then I had this, as I said before,
almost over confidence, where I.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Was like, I buy so well and you know, I
am good with money as they say, so I wasn't
spending money I didn't have, you know, I had this
almost where do I actually stop then? So then I
had to sort of I did the challenge again this
year where I was like, I'm not bringing anything new
into my wardrobe, partly for some sustainability reasons which I'll
come on to, but also to I guess experience those
(42:05):
learnings again with a wardrobe I loved, and that was
completely different because I wasn't learning all the things I'd
done wrong. I was actually just learning to be with
what I had. And now as we come to the
end of this year, I don't need to go and
replace things in the way I did before, so now
it's much more of a lasting change that has happened.
(42:28):
I later towards the second half of this year, I
allowed a limited amount of thrifting because I wanted to
get back into thrifting, but I still had that, Oh,
it's really hard to say no to something that's really good.
How do I limit this? So I really wanted to
try that within the context of thrifting being the only option,
and that's been really fun. I've been customizing some things.
(42:50):
I've been buying a couple of things and dying them.
I bought this and I died it into my signature RUSS.
Yet it was great, fantastic.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
I would never have known that that was not its
original color.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
No, so well it looks and it has much in
trousers as well. But that's you know, that creativity has
really come back again. And I don't think that that's
a surprise that it's in the year where I've stepped
back and I think, just yeah, something can seem really restrictive,
but actually there's so much to be found and experienced.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Absolutely. How's your style changed through all of this, Like,
what's the criteria now that you use to assess you're
talking about sustainability in that element a little bit? What
kind of things are you looking at when you are
considering bringing something into your wardrobe?
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah, I'm really looking at you know, I'm very much
of the belief that the most sustainable outfit you can
wear is one you already have. And so there's that,
you know, you don't need to be, you know, jumping
through hoops and looking for all these amazing sustainable brands
if you're not buying anything at all.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Look, I have some.
Speaker 4 (43:48):
Work to do on perhaps where I'm shopping. You know,
I'm you know, I'm not shopping Sheen and Timu and
things like that. But you know, your shops, your major retailers, it's.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
A ray area.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Yeah, like your Kmart, Yeah, came Out's country Road WI.
You know that it's not exactly sustainable, so I would
again it can be harder in plus size they're a
lot less and truly ethically made plus size stores. But
again I use that as an excuse for a long time,
can't shop ethically. I'm that shouldn't have to, but it is.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
It's hard. It's like you're limited already.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
And then you know, but I've really, you know, I'm
focusing very much on things I will wear, you know,
on my criteria list. I've I've worked out what makes
me love my body the most, So things that work
really well on my curves, things that run longer because
I have a funny body composition that my torso is
really long. I'm tall in general, but a lot of
my height comes from my torso.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
So where for so long I was chasing that like long, leggy,
athletic look that was just so not what I am.
Now I really kind of embrace my my curves but
also the space I take up.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I talk in the book a bit.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
A bit how I moved away from wanting to be
that sort of beige, minimalist, clean you know, old money
almost look too much more bold and like you know,
orange is my signature color.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
And I'm colorful to me.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
I don't think give you I do.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I think a vibrant yes, And.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Like I'm not a quiet person and I am silly
and I do joke around, and I'm not neat and
polished and you know, put together per se in that
traditional sense. So I really started to lean into that
a bit more, and I started sort of using these
style anchor words. So I started There's a drink that
I have when I'm in the UK that's like an
(45:30):
espresso with whipped cream, like all espresso conpana, And I
was like, that's kind of my style. Like there's the
basics and the simples and the you know, the nice clean,
you know, suiting or denim or whatever, but then there's
these like punchy.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Elements as well.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yeah, like no one can see today, but I'm wearing
my like my big velvet orange shoes, which people have come.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
To known me for.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Shoes I've ever seen the fantastic, but.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
Like they're kind of me in a shoe. Like they're
big and they're chunky, and they're loud and they take
up space and they're very cool. And that's kind of
a really big difference as well, from trying to fit
into that little neat box to just being like, especially
now with the way we're seeing style and we're seeing
this move to the right, with this sort of you know,
clean girl, clean core, Yeah, moving away from that. Even
(46:16):
my nail ladies say the other day, she goes, you're
the only one of my clients that gets a bright
colors crazy And I was like, oh, look, maybe they
have to have baite for work. It was like, no,
it's a real trend.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Long gone are the days of Cajun shrimp, you know
for anyone out there.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
And it, yeah, like embracing that in my style has
been really nice and doing it within the boundaries of
this is what works, this is what I will wear,
this is something that will fit with what I already have,
and overall just consuming less, buying less, and lucking myself more.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Ah, that's the dream. Those anchor words that you're talking about.
Is that something you talk through in the book, because
that's something I really struggle with. Someone asked U and
A on Instagram or something recently, someone said, how would
you describe your style? And I said, I have absolutely
like for my clothes, for my home, I couldn't tell you,
And I feel like that's probably a huge gap because like,
how do you shop when you don't know what you're
shopping for?
Speaker 4 (47:09):
It's kind of like, how would you exist in the
world if you didn't know what you've valued? You know,
how do you shop when you don't know what your
style is? I think, yes, I do talk about that
in the book, and I talk about it in the
sense of, you know, I have to stay on my
lane because I'm not a stylist.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
I talk about the style a.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Lot, but I'm not a qualified stylist, but I talk
about it in this sense a lot of anchoring it
to something something physical or something visual, whether it's a
plant or a place or a city drink.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
You know, there was that kind of ic latte phase.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I think a lot of people will have that sort
of style, But there's a lot to be said about
that because you perceive that thing a certain way, and
so someone might say, Oh, my style is New York
and like, that's not something that can be replicated by
anybody else because the way they perceive New York, oh
is really specific to them.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
So again people will be like, express it.
Speaker 5 (47:56):
What are you like?
Speaker 2 (47:56):
What are you talking about.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
But it made sense to me, and I see that
in my style choices, and that's really all that matters.
Whereas when we kind of use word you know, feminine, floral, like,
it can help in a way, but then a hundred
girls in a lineup could say feminine and it could
mean something different to them. So your interpretation of like
traditional style words like that. But I think when you
pick it, you know, for some people their style might
(48:19):
be like a velvet sofa and like that evokes a
feeling in them and they replicate that in their style
and then it's really unique to you, which is FIRS
style should be really exactly exactly. But we're so homogeneous
in our style now the individuality is more and more rare.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, I'm not celebrated in the way that I should be.
I feel like, either, Wow, we've covered so much today
before we go. I would love to know for anyone
who's listening, they're going I think I need to They're
doing exactly what I'm doing. I need to do this challenge,
This challenges for me. What would your advice be to
someone who's looking to take it on?
Speaker 4 (48:53):
M Well, I have a whole advice section at the
back of the book. So I definitely check that out
because there's a lot to say. My device would be
don't overthink it, even though I've overthought it to the
point I've written a book about it. Don't overthink it.
Just see what happens again. Trust that you will overcome
(49:14):
any obstacles as they come to you. You'll instinctively know
whether you are sticking to your values of the challenge
or not. And I guess within that, think about what
you want to get out of it. What is the
feeling that you have around your clothes? Yeah, you relate,
but what does it feel like for you? What are
the examples of the things that you relate to, What
(49:34):
items in your wardrobe maybe making you.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Think about your fantasy self? What does your fantasy self
look like? How does your.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
Shopping and your style, your relationship with style kind of
relate to everything else in your life. You know, for me,
it was those body image issues. It was growing up
through diet culture, through you know that touched my money
in a lot of ways, and this was that one
lingering thing. A story I tell a lot is a
story that's very generously shared in the book from somebody
from my accountability program, and she had left a toxic
relationship and she realized that her fantasy self was actually
(50:08):
not her fantasy self, but his fantasy of what she
should have done. Wow, And like, there are so many ways,
depending on what stage of life you're at, a lot
of people experience the fantasy self when they become a
mum because they're so you know, that's like next level
of women's standards of everything that you should be when
you become a mother, and the identity shift that you
(50:29):
go through and the lifestyle shift that you go through.
COVID was a big one at the time, you know,
for me, thinking about how maybe your buying patterns are
relating to other things happening in your life that can
kind of help you find what you're looking for. In
doing the challenge, I'd be careful of doing it just
to get the satisfaction of doing it. I'm sure that
can be very enjoyable. But I think you need to
(50:49):
go with a question that you're looking to answer in
a way to get that really deep learning out of it.
But you know, it doesn't need to be a year.
It could be a month. And I think a big
one is know your behavioral style, Like I said before,
I'm somebody that does very well with a challenge with abstinence,
partly because I want to do for work. Yeah, it
becomes content for me. It helps me examine, you know.
(51:11):
I'm fascinated by why we do what we do, why
we lie, So that helps for me. But if you're
the type of person that needs a three item buffer,
work with that. Like you know yourself better than I know.
You make like set yourself up a success rather than
trying to do what someone else has done. Because it
sounds good. Yeah, yeah, it's got to be very personal
to you.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Like your style. I love that.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
And what a beautiful little bow to title up in.
I have loved this chat, and I thank you so
much for coming in and sharing. I honestly it's been
such a joy to have you in.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Thank you so much for having me. I could yap
about this all day.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
I have to come back. I know so many of
our community members are going to be exactly like me
and wanting to dive deeper into this. So we'll pop
a link for the wardrobe project in the show notes
so you can grab your copy. I honestly, I think
I'll be doing this challenge in twenty twenty six, and
if you enjoyed this episode, please send it to a
friend who might need a little to rethink their shopping
habits or their overflowing wardrobe. Don't forget to hit subscribe
(52:04):
so you never miss an episode, and check out all
of Emma's links that will have down there as well.
So thank you for listening, everybody, and we're back for
another episode on Friday. Hi guys, h.
Speaker 5 (52:20):
The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Advice tailored towards your needs.
Speaker 5 (52:41):
Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives
of Money showper pty Ltd ABN three two one IS
six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL four
five one two eight nine.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
He would you want to lead Room
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