November 28, 2025 • 47 mins
This special episode was created for our First Nations community members. Victoria invited Leah Bennett from the First Nations Foundation on the show to talk through the realities, pressures and systems that shape money confidence for First Nations people today.
Leah shares how history, culture and community responsibilities influence financial literacy, why trust in institutions can be hard to build, and the practical steps that can help you feel more in control. They also discuss superannuation, humbugging, accessing ID, and where to go for free and culturally safe support.
Inside this episode:
• The importance of culturally informed financial education
• How history and systems impact money confidence today
• Practical steps to start building financial security
• What to know about super, beneficiaries and early access
• Support available through financial counsellors and Indigenous banking teams
• Understanding humbugging and setting boundaries that feel right for you
FIrst Nations Foundation Website
FOLLOW: Leah Bennett on Instagram here.
First Nations Foundation on Instagram here.
Rich Blak Women om Instagram here.
First Nations Foundation on Youtube here
LINK: We have created a blog with links for resources, support and education here.
Acknowledgement of Country By Nartarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.
The advice shared on She's On The Money is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's On The Money exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy a financial product, read the PDS, TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Devine and She's On The Money are authorised representatives of Money Sherpa PTY LTD ABN - 321649 27708, AFSL - 451289.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name's Aatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations woman
and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young Ganya Niana,
kaka ya Ya bin Ahaka Nian Our gay In Nimbina,
yakarum Jar, Dominyama, Domagaowakaman, damon Imlan Bomber bang gadaboma In
and now in wakah ghana on yak rum jar Watnadaa. Hello,
(00:22):
beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
We thank acknowledge and respect the Abiginal people's land that
we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
knowledge and resources for.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You to thrive. She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that is here to help finance seem a lot more doable.
I'm Victoria Devine and this very special bonus episode is
just for our First Nations community and friends. We're going
to be talking about the extra barriers you often come
up against when it comes to money and most importantly,
the practical steps you can take now to feel more
(01:28):
in control and set yourself up for the future. And
to help with this episode, I am joined by an
incredible guest, Leah Bennett from the First Nation's Foundation. Leah
is a proud Waraderie woman with over fourteen years experience
across superannuation, financial services, and governance, and now Leah heads
up the First Nation's Foundation, who do amazing work helping
(01:51):
First Nations people feel confident with their money and navigate
the unique challenges that they face. Leah, thank you so
much for joining us and making time to come on
the show.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I am actually really excited about this because I know
that a fair few people in my community have been
like I want more content like this, and I'm like, say,
less queens, sit down, I'm going to go get Leah.
She's going to help us here. So let's just dive in.
I want to start by asking you to tell me
in your own words about the First Nation's Foundation and
the work that they do.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, for sure. So fnf's actually been around for twenty
five years. We actually started as a credit union in
Shepard and many many years ago. So we celebrated our
twenty twenty fifth year last October, which is incredible. And
so over the years, FNF has evolved into what it
is today, which is an organization that specializes in financial literacy.
(02:47):
Its content is created by a mob for mob and
so culture is essentially at the core of everything that
we do. We have a number of programs, everything from
our Financial Fitness which helps mom go through the basics
of budgeting. We have our Women's program, which is one
of our most important programs because about eighty seven percent
(03:10):
of our participants are actually women anyway, so we were like, well,
it makes sense that we would do a women's program,
which is everything from our own podcast, YouTube channel, we
run women's workshops. We also have a new youth program
that we're about to roll out for kids between the
ages of fifteen to twenty five because for us, we
(03:33):
understand that getting in early with financial literacy as kids
are leaving school and entering the workforce is so essential.
And so I'm so incredibly excited about that youth program
as well.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I'm excited about that on your behalf like that just
you're right, that's where we need to get them, like
we need to get you while you're young and set
you up properly for the future.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, right, Like I was just in Parliament, the Parliamentary
Sittings a few weeks ago, talking about the need to
update the curriculum school right because it hasn't been reviewed
in a really long time. And financial literacy is such
an essential life skill for everybody. Financial literacy levels they're
at an all time low in general, So it's not
(04:13):
just to issue that First Nations people are facing, but
it's a national crisis, I would say, so, yeah, being
able to get them while they're young and set up
those healthy kind of you know, even for mom too,
like healthy boundaries. Yeah. First Nations Foundation also does a
lot of advocacy stuff, so advocating for mobs, so understanding
(04:34):
what mob needs, and I think most importantly to understand
that every First Nations person's at a different place in
their own financial literacy journey, and so we try not
to come from a deficet lens. We really try to
empower our First Nations people to take control of their
financial literacy journey and we walk beside them while we
do that.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I love that, and I'm going to make sure
that I get all of this into the show notes,
so people don't need to take notes or like try
and remember what you said, because we haven't even gotten
into the crux of the conversation. But I'm pretty sure
a few years might have pricked up when they're like, oh,
what's the financial fitness course? Or you know, what's this
women's program? So all of the info will be in
our show notes. You don't have to like stop and
write notes in She's on the Money, I would say
(05:17):
one of the most powerful things we do is share
our money stories on the show. And for First Nations
women particularly, how do history and culture shape the way
that you guys relate to money and to services and
what are the first steps to rebuild trust and just
feel in control.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Gosh, that's such a huge question.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Sorry, it's a big question.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Let's start at the beginning. First Nations people have either
been allowed to participate in the economy for the last
fifty years, we weren't able to get jobs, open up
bank accounts, buy homes, and so as a result of that,
like our financial literacy levels are significantly lower. Because even
my own mum grew up in the generation and where
(06:00):
she wasn't part of the constitution, right, So people say, oh,
these things happen like two hundred years ago, and I
was like, no, no, it didn't. It's so recent, Like
it's it is so recent. But in saying that too,
then there becomes this lack of trust in the institutions themselves.
And I mean only ACIK again have brought out a
(06:20):
report on A and Z and some of the misconduct
in banking there, and almost every week one of the
super funds or the banks are in the news because
they're doing something that's harmful to vulnerable people within our community,
and not just vulnerable people but just customers in general.
So they're not doing all that much to kind of
rebuild that trust with First Nations people. I think there's
(06:42):
just been also, like I think really important to note
a lack of intergenerational wealth that I think people don't
even realize. Like for people that come from intergenerational world
and I'm not saying that you come from a family
that has millions and billions of dollars, but to know
that if something went wrong, you could go to mom
(07:04):
and dad and they could help you out, or you know,
to pay the mortgage or to help with a deposit
for a home loan or something along those lines. That
death doesn't exist for First Nations people, and so we
know deep down and how far behind we are in
the game and just trying to play catch up. It
can be really overwhelming. But most importantly, this real sense
of shame and around you know, everyone kind of knows
(07:26):
where you sit. Within the economy itself, people just naturally
just assume that you don't know what you're doing. So
even applying for bank loans or car loans and having
being able to have conversations at an institutional level, that
makes sense. So evaluation is a really good example of
really convoluted, unnecessary language that's used within the system that
(07:49):
prevents people from interacting with it. Even the average person
is like, sorry, what do these words mean?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like, oh, yeah, we're already at a disadvantage, but First
Nations people are at more of a disadvantage. And it
blows my mind that they don't take that more seriously
or put more time or energy or effort into it,
because it's not like you guys aren't jumping up and
down and being like, excuse me, I don't know if
you noticed, but.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, and I think for things I can because we
run the Indigenous super Working Groups, So we took that
over two years ago to try and advocate for the
rights of First Nations people within the supervaluation sector and
work directly with the sector itself. But the superaluation they
just don't have any First Nations representation in the rooms
having the conversations at an operational level. So when we're
(08:33):
talking about products and service and delivery, where are the
First Nations voices in those rooms that are assisting with that.
And so when you have a predominantly one demographic, I
won't say all white men that I call.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Them mediocare middle aged white men, so like you don't
have to be not offensive, that's just what I call
them as a base level.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
But the reality is is that there aren't other voices
in those rooms, like you know, even if we're talking
about the rights of you know, people with disabilities and
how they access services and people that fall under that
vulnerability bucket, there is still so much work that needs
to be done at an institutional level to help support
First Nations people. And there's instances I've heard or have
(09:15):
been watching my attention where First Nations people have called
up call centers to access the service that have been
discriminated against or been made to feel ashamed, you know,
like made to feel like an idiot, so you're not
going to call back up, You're not going to interact
with that, and so yeah, like it's just there's so
much still institutionalized issues and again just dealing with the
(09:35):
shame that we deal with internally as well. I reflect
on my own financial literacy journey, Like I didn't really
know what I was doing with money. I came from
my mother who's first Nations, raised my brother, and I
had low levels of financial literacy my own concept and
views and relationship just my relationship with money and understanding that.
(09:57):
And I wasn't until I was in my late twenties
early thirties that I picked up Barefoot Investors because I
was just kind of like I need to start somewhere
to take control, like and I don't know who to trust,
and you know, like started listening to podcasts and people
talk about different things, and to some degree that brought
up a lot of shame for me internally to be like, oh,
(10:18):
should I have not already been somewhere else by this
point in my life, Like, yeah, just trying to navigate
that without the tools that I needed to get to
where I am. So there are so many challenges and
barriers that are in the way, and again community expectations
as well that can be quite difficult. First nations, people
participate in the sharing economy and I didn't even know
(10:40):
that there was a name to it. I knew that
I was participating in it my whole life. But it's
a sharing economy. And our concept of wealth and money
differs to Western society, where Western society is about the
accumulation of wealth, like I need to get more and
more and hold on to it. Where one of the
beautiful things about our culture is that we care for
one another. So yeah, like when money comes in, you'll
(11:03):
have mobcome around and family and say, oh, I need
money for this, and it's just like a no brainer.
You just do it because you care for each other
and they do that in return. But one of the
problems is is if not everybody is participating in the
sharing economy, it becomes humbugging. Its financial abuse, and so
that becomes problematic for people as well. So yeah, there's
(11:24):
definitely different layers. There's different layers for us on personal levels.
Learning how to set healthy boundaries, navigating resources that help
us do that, and deal with the internal shame that
we face around those sorts of things. But also still
how these larger institutions are kind of working alongside us
to improve services one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And you touched on this before, like you know, you
said before, it was only fifty years ago that you
were officially allowed to participate in this economy, which is
messed up to begin with. We won't dive into that,
but money is already difficult. Money is hard for most
people in general. What additional barriers apart from the fact
that you've been excluded for so long? Are First Nations
(12:06):
women more likely to face when it comes to money.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, I mean there's a huge portion of our women
that are in dB situations, right, and so one of
the things that one of the programs we have trained
the Trainer helps support support workers community support workers to
help provide financial counseling and two women especially who are
navigating domestic violence situations. So one of those things is
(12:32):
I don't feel that I can leave this situation because
I don't have the resources to be able to do that.
I don't have the money to be able to do that.
I don't know how to budget or you know, this
fear of being able to provide for your children, right, Like.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's terrifying as a concept.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, yeah, and so like there's yeah, one of the
things with our training is really just trying to assist
those women to give them the skills so that they
can have the confidence to leave and building up wealth
for themselves so that they're not stuck in a position
where they can't leave a domestic violent situation or even
a family violent situation. So really just giving them the skills.
(13:11):
They also like community commitments right again, Like we're so
very tied to our communities, which is such a positive
and beautiful thing. Like it's not something that I would
ever advocate that we change as people. That it's that
you can be so tied down to community needs and
requirements that you forget about your own well being. And
(13:32):
so one of the things that I always I love
about our women's program and talking to is how do
you balance like protecting yourself and setting boundaries with community,
Because you can't pour from an empty cup. You also
have to care for yourself. So it's so fine to
love others and to serve in community the way that
you do. But again, you have to take care of
(13:53):
yourself and you have to take In some instances, I've
seen women give so much that they haven't had the
ability to be able to fear their own children and
look after their own needs. And that's where that healthy
boundaries comes in. And I think that's so programmed into us.
And I think in a society today where maybe balanced
responsibility between men and women look different as well, women
(14:17):
are carrying a lot more burdens. So yeah, there's definitely
more cultural types considerations.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Absolutely. And if someone comes to you and they say
I really need help with money matters or their suffering
and you've kind of identified their suffering from financial hardship,
what is the first thing you recommend to them?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Financial counselors. Financial counselors are a free service and they
have the ability to work with individuals to provide support
that they wouldn't normally be able to access. And this
isn't just for First Nations people. Financial counselors are available
for all people, but financial Counseling Australia actually have some
First Nations counselors that work directly with mob because they
(14:59):
understand the cultural needs of First Nations people and so
that can be helping them navigate some severe debt, could
even be advocating on behalf of them. Right. So a
lot of First Nations people don't even realize that there's
on Bundsman's for example, Right, So, what happens if there's
some misconduct or something's happened to you in an interaction
(15:21):
with the financial services sector, who do you complain to?
Where do you go? On? Budsman's can support and can
help with that. And I'll give you an example of
a really good case. And this is why I always
say to people, go to on Budsman's for support. One
of my best friend's sister was in a domestic violence
situation recently. Her ex partner had set up a business Forutulantly,
(15:44):
she was essentially coerced into setting up a business wrapped
up one hundred and eighty thousand dollars bass Biel. She's
a single mum, nos, no, just basically on Center Link
family payments and the ATO basically gone after for one
hundred and eighty thous and all the debt that's not hers,
that's so messed up. She went to the ATO to
(16:04):
prove she was in a DV situation that that wasn't
her debt. They've ignored that she went to them and
they ignored that, yes, yeah, correct, And then they also
didn't provide her the correct vulnerability team that would be
able to support her. And so I've been very very
vocal about this particular situation. And there's a tax on budsmen, right,
(16:25):
So there's an actual I didn't you think if anyone
would know that, it would be me. But I didn't
even know. I was in a forum basically blasting the
ATO in an open conversation and someone said the tax
on Budsmen's over there, and.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I was like, like, where is he sit down?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah? And they were so beautiful, right, Like they were
so helpful to the point where we got notification last
week that the ATO has wiped the debt and will
not be coming up.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Stop it good. I was about to be like, what
can I do? How can I help? Because like, I
can be vocal, you just tell me what you need
me to say.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Girl. Yeah, but like on budsman's it's so useful and
and a lot of the time we don't even know
they exist. And financial counselors can help with that advocacy, right, like,
they can step in and go, Okay, we're not getting
where we need to go with this. Let's get a
non budsman involved in this situation and help them navigate that.
They provide resources and tools that a lot of people
(17:17):
don't even realize they have, and then can obviously help
with things like budgeting and the understanding finance. And you know,
they're not going to get into the technical things like
where should you invest your super but they will help
when you're in financial crisis and you need some help.
They're always the first person I say go to.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, we're not talking about hey, like let's set up
an ETF portfolio, because unfortunately that's not going to work there.
But I also think that even conversations like this are
really helpful because you know, you might not be going
through a similar situation, thankfully, but now you know that
the ombardsmen exists, and if you hear about another friend
that's going through this, you can be like, oh my god,
(17:54):
so actually there's this thing and I don't know enough
about it, but I know enough to be dangerous, and
I can use Google and we can work out what
that actually means. And I think that that's where this
sharing economy that you guys have is so beautiful because
it's not just financial, it's all about knowledge and skill sharing,
and like just there's so much beauty in that community.
Talk to me a bit more about the first thing
(18:16):
that you suggest, So not necessarily people going through financial
hardship or even like they're you know, in these situations,
just general First Nations people that come across FNF. What's
the first thing you suggest that our First Nation's community
members do to just set themselves up for success when
it comes to money.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We always guide people to our online modules. So all
of our content on our website is completely free for mom.
So we have some online courses.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
You guys are so good, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Thank you. But we have some online modules that people
can go through their self pay. So you know, if
you've got kids and your you know, you can try
to juggle learning online and you know one life is busy,
Yeah you can. You can jump on when it's convenient
for you. We have a number of resources that are
(19:10):
also just available on our website on how Tomorrow Money website,
which goes from everything like by doing basics to how
to watch out for scams and disaster recovery and you
know all these sorts of stuff. You know what you
need to set yourself up. So if you're renting a
home for the first time, what are the things that
you need to consider Potentially you know, some home and
(19:31):
contents insurance or just contents insurance, depending on your situation.
We always just point people to the website first and foremost,
and for those people that want to then get further
information and do more of our workshops and we get
them to register for them. We also have our Rich
Black Women webinar series that happens I think it's monthly
(19:52):
that's run by one of our fabulous trainers, Kienna. So yeah,
usually it's just our online resources to get people familiar
with the type of content too that we deliver.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
That's cool, Like just the fact that you have like
a Rich Black Women webinar, I'm like, yeah, get at
Queen's I love this.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We've just recorded Rich Black Women Season three, which is
Rich Black Women in Business last Friday, and I was
inspired with this series because a lot of the women
that I had interviewed on Rich Black Women, they all
started where we all start kind of thing, and I
think sometimes first Nations women go, oh, I can't reach
(20:29):
that because I'm in a bad situation or whatever it is.
And you know, I grew up in family violence. I've
been in a DV situation, and you know, I'm thirty
seven next month and I've owned my own business. I've
sat on boards, I've done it, and I never thought
that I would ever get to where I've gotten to
if you had asked me when I was back in that.
(20:50):
And so it was really an opportunity to inspire other
First Nations women who might be in difficult situations to
still aspire to more if that's what they want to
do one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And you're like so capable of it before and you
were touching on you know something that broke my heart.
You were like, oh, I started like learning about financial
literacy and a lot of shame came up and I
felt like I was behind, and you know I should
be shamed by that, and I'm just like, no, Like,
you're taking control of this situation where you know, there
are so many First Nation's businesses out there, and the
(21:20):
coolest thing about them is we know that they weren't
backed by intergenerational wealth like mommy or Daddy did not
turn around to go, oh, honey, you want to start
a business, I'll give you one hundred grand, Like you
didn't get that foot up. Every single thing that you
guys have done has been off your own backs and
off community and off supporting one another. And that just
makes me, I don't know, so proud by virtual Like
(21:43):
I'm just looking at it, going you guys are killing it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And it's so cool because most recent figures show that
First Nations businesses contribute sixteen billion dollars to the Australian economy.
That's not sole traders. That is businesses where they have
twenty or more employees, so the numbers obviously way bigger
than that, and it's just, yeah, it is inspiring. I
think a new report will be is due to come
(22:07):
out at the end of this year, which I'm hoping
most figures are just going to do all triple inside.
Oh they are, they absolutely are, and like that's it's
just so exciting, and I think that we need to
be sometimes like you guys as a community need to
be reminded of all this cool stuff you're doing, because
when it gets down to a personal level and you
start like looking at a budgeting and cash flow and
you know, working out all this stuff that you were
(22:30):
not taught in school because as you said before, Leah,
you had to literally go to Parliament to be like,
by the way, your curriculum.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Is out dated, Like this stuff isn't taught. So why
are you feeling bad about content that you never laid
eyes on? And you were already at a disadvantage for
because you didn't have parents who were financially literally, you
didn't have people that sat you down and said, all right, well, Leah,
this is how you budget, this is how.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You cash flow.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Like sorry, it makes me so mad that you had
to feel shame through that process instead of going wow,
like we're not starting again, we're not starting from scratch.
We're just starting from here and like things can be
better and things can be different and you can feel
even more empowered, Like it should be an empowering journey,
and like I don't know how to get from where
that exists, because we know it does to Like every
(23:17):
single person who engages in this content doesn't feel shame.
They just feel like, oh my god, this could be
so good for me. But the content that you create
on a regular basis is doing that. Like, I just
know that the people that are tuning into rich black women,
they get off and they're like icons, look at them.
Go even your story. I'm like, look at this, like
this woman is absolutely killing it. And if we went
(23:39):
back and spoke to baby, you'd be like, not possible. Sorry,
you just proved it wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's so good now and just to see the young
women come through too that are starting their careers and yeah,
just like the confidence that they have and that's yeah,
that is just it's wise me all the time. You know.
There was a story of a mum who'd done now
one of our workshops and she's now teaching her babies,
(24:07):
like her little ones, how to budget with their allowance
and stuff. And I was like, that is taken your
power back, right, Like that is going, Okay, I might
not have all the answers and I don't. I don't
know everything, but what I do know, I'm now going
to transfer that knowledge onto my baby so that they
can have yeah, more than what I did it And
(24:27):
that's why we do what we do.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
No, it's so beautiful, isn't it. First nations women retire
with much less supernuation on average, with average estimates being
around sixty one percent less than the superanuation balance of
non indigenous men. No, unacceptable, And obviously there needs to
be not just change, not just conversation, but systematic change.
(24:52):
What can individuals be doing to put themselves in a
better position when it comes to retirement, because, like I mean,
sometimes we're all just the same and talking about retirement.
It's not that sexy.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah. No, And obviously disclaim this is not financial advice.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
No, no, no, it's okay. There's a disclaimer on the podcast, babe,
there's a disclaimer in my show notes. This is just
a conversation between two friends about tools and resources that
you guys could access, and hopefully a conversation that makes
you go, maybe I should think about retirement because you're
at it's not that sexy, But I actually am in
control of this, and I actually could put future me
(25:28):
in the best possible position, and like maybe one day
we might have some type of intergenerational wealth and we
could brag about that.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah. I think there's a couple of factors that are
contributing to this. That can be early access to super right,
so in severe financial high chip and so people need
to access their superannuation. The second situation is that women
are obviously taking time off to have babies, and then
(25:57):
even when them babies go to school, you know, there's
a sick date, Mum has to take time off, don't
get paid to you know, for those days, and so
she's working just far less in general, which is obviously
meaning that there's less contributions being made to her super annuation.
And women are take on more caring type responsibility roles
(26:18):
within their community. Right, and that is that you probably
spend less time working, which obviously means that there's less
at retirement. Each individual person circumstances are going to be different, right,
Like there's no one size fits all, but it's about
what you can do. And I want to circle back
kind of to the conversation, bring it back to myself
that like I had zero financial literacy skills whatsoever, but
(26:43):
over time really understanding the importance and significance of super
annuation to empower myself to understand how I can get
the best out of it for my retirement. And that
was talking to financial planners to understand how my super
manual should be invested. Because everyone who has a super
(27:03):
anuation fund it automatically goes into a default investment time,
and so most of us just leave it and we
don't interact with our super annuation until we're getting closer
retirement aid, and then by then it's too late. So
you're not getting compounded interest to the degree in which
you might if your investments were allocated somewhere else. And
so it's really important to kind of consider that, while
(27:27):
it seems so so far away, that it is something
that just having a phone call and talking to somebody
to get some level of advice around your super annuation,
because at the end of the day, what your supervaluation
is invested in will dictate how much you retire with right, absolutely, Yeah,
So talking to a financial planner around that, because again
(27:49):
everyone's individual circumstances are so different based off the work
you're doing. I mean, some people make additional contributions into
their super annuation and that could be a certain amount
that could be within your budget that would be helpful.
A financial planner would be able to assist in helping
you kind of understand what that might look like and
(28:10):
what might be reasonable. And I think too, I used
to underestimate so much about even just putting the smallest
bit away and investing it like, yeah, I've got money
in some additional investment. Because I started investing, I just
became a nerd about it. And I was like, I'm
so excited because like, home ownership might not be an
option for some people. So I was like, I want
(28:32):
to learn how to invest, Like what's this about? And
you know, I didn't even like even just the smallest amounts, like,
we'll still make a difference, and I think we underestimate that.
So yeah, just equipping yourself with the skills. There is
systematic issues, legislative issues, there's things that need to have,
you know, changes that are outside of our control. But
(28:53):
for me, it's all about what can you control with
what you have and understanding too. I think it's one
of the biggest issues in the superaluation sector is the
fact that most First Nations people, or a large majority
of First Nations people, will die before they reach preservation eight.
So they'll die before they get to sixty five. And
so then you would go, why would I care about this?
(29:13):
Because that then becomes a legacy plan for your family, right,
and so you putting money aside and taking care of
this nest egg. It's the first time in history, you
will have the opportunity to pass on into generational wealth.
And having that then means that your family will be
cared for after you've passed away, and.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
You can make a plan for that. And I think
a lot of people. I have spoken to a lot
of First Nations people about that, and they're like, well,
my mum died at fifty five and my dad died
at sixty two and they never got to access it,
so why would I care? And valid, very very valid.
But you're creating the legacy that your ancestors weren't afforded
and now we can make change, and that is so beautiful,
(29:57):
and making a plan around that is so important. I
actually this morning recorded the second part to my mini
super series. I did like a two part thing on
the importance of not just being in your default portfolio,
what you can do to check your super how you
can do it, because as much as your recommendation of
talking to a financial planet is fantastic, it can also
(30:17):
feel really out of reach because we can't all afford
to go and get advice. The other thing I would say,
and I'll put all of the information in the show notes,
You guys are going to have a bank of resources
in there. I do apologize. But the other thing I
would say is if you have a superfund and you're
paying super fees, which spoiler you are, if you have
a super fund, you can call your supernuation fund for
(30:39):
free to discuss anything about your super balance, anything about
the fund, their performance, your risk profile, what you should
be investing in, what's going to put you in the
best possible position, all for free. So it's not necessarily
free because you're already paying your super fees for it,
but they're kind of non consensual fees that you're paying anyway,
so you may as well make the most out of it.
(31:01):
And I would say that most super funds, you're not
calling up the CEO. It's just normal people who talk
in normal language about these topics. And maybe that's not enough,
but like it's a really good place to start.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
And one of the things that we're advocating for at
the moment is greater cultural competency within the superannuation sectors
call centers. So when our community calls up, they're dealing
with people that they feel safe, have any arm with,
right like they're not going to be judged, and there's
some support there. The superanuation has a long way to go,
(31:37):
but there is that support within the superannuation sector. And
I do want to say to one of the things
that we're currently advocating for. So I've met with their
assistant Treasurer Minisimolino two weeks ago to talk about changing
the legislation to include First Nations kinship structures.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I was about to ask about that, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Bet you to it, because I mean, there's nothing that
can be done at an institutional level that's a legislative requirement.
And it looks like they're really engaged and have appetite
and really really interested in continuing to explore changes. But
it's not even First Nations kinship structures, right. I think,
more broadly, how we view family today is very very different.
(32:22):
You know, I'd like to be able to leave some
of my nephews some money, and like that's a whole
other conversation around beneficiaries and binding beneficiaries and the importance
of that. But one of my aunties, I didn't even know.
She wasn't even a real auntie of mine until I
thought she was like my actual auntie, But she was
my mum's cousin and that's so common, like it's just
(32:43):
such a.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Normal, still related, she's still in the club.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, Oh, she's definite. She was one of my favorite too.
But you know, if she had to go up against
the supervaluation sector to say well, I want access to
the death benefits associated with this super, she would have
been declined, you know. And so I just want to
assure everyone, like we're doing everything at First Nations Foundation
to definitely advocate in these spaces. Legislative changes take time,
(33:09):
but I think it's important that we should feel encouraged
anyway that change is happening and we have buy in
from the government, which is fantastic. Yeah, And I think
that that's a really important topic as well, because I
think it's so important that they are making the time
and the energy and the space to discuss how they
can make sure that your culture is respected when it
(33:30):
comes to super and it's just not. It's just not.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And you're right. In terms of beneficiaries, it's so limited.
I had a friend pass away recently and she had
listed her sister as her beneficiary and even that isn't
acceptable in the superannuation space. But you go, but it's
my money. It should be my choice, like what's going
on here? So there just needs to be so much
done in that space. And I'm grateful that you're standing
(33:56):
up and having conversations about that because to me, that's
more important than you know, just assister getting it. But
like sorry, you guys should have say over the money
that you earned and where it goes and how it's distributed,
not even just firstinations people.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I'm not married and I don't have children. If I
was to pass away tomorrow, where does my money go,
because you know, my kinships structure or the people around
me that I'm closest to. If I haven't listed, if
I don't even know that, I have to list beneficiaries,
which is like a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Most people don't know, like genuinely, I'm I was a
financial adviser, so I know, but that's why I know.
And just the idea that then you would have to
and it becomes more complex and I don't want to
dive too deep into it, but like the way that
you would get that money to a friend or a
family member or to your you know, mum's cousin who's
actually your aunt, is via a trust and via nominating
(34:52):
your estate and then having a complete will set up
and a plan for that estate. But that's another complexity
that you haven't had the privilege understanding, and you can't
expect people to just rely on that when the logical
answer would be heylee, I just log into yours like
super account and just nominate who you want to get
your staff. Like, why is it not that simple?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Anyway?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
I won't go on and on about that. So another
question I have is for our first nation's community members
who actually have limited ID or like mismatched details, which
then blocks them from opening up bank accounts or opening
up a subernuation account, what do we do? What do
you recommend that they do?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, such a great question, and it's a really common challenge.
I think it's really important to actually educate people on
why certain identification is required to so that people can
understand because some people are just like, well, you know,
what does it really matter? I think educating people is
super important, especially with the processes that happen within financial institutions.
(35:57):
Kycing is essentially a protoct or that's put in place
by oz Trapp, which is a regulator to ensure that
people are who they say that they are to protect
from money laundering and terrorism financing. So it's really really important.
It's important to protect you, and it's important to protect
our communities to ensure that criminal activity is not happening.
(36:19):
And so while sometimes these processes can seem really rigid
and frustrating, they are there to protect us. But there
is what's called an Alternative forms of Identification guideline that
was put out by os TRACK to accommodate not just
First Nations people but vulnerable people in general. So you're
a person who has fled a domestic violence situation and
(36:42):
you don't have any identification with you, but you need
to access your super or money from your bank or
something along those lines. Those institutions have to comply with
that alternative forms of identification. And so if your MOB
and all you've put is a community card, maybe you
don't have a birth certificate or anything like that, all
of the institutions now should be in a position where
(37:04):
they can use that alternative forms of identification. And that
could be too even if you're in a remote more
remote community and you don't have access to the conventional
services like branches and all that sort of stuff called
JPS or police or anything. You can actually get a
referee form signed by an elder in community that can say, yeah,
(37:24):
I attest to the fact that this person is who
they say that they are, and so there are options there.
So if at any point you're ever turned down by
an institution to say well, if you don't have a
driver's license or these are mismatching or anything along like that,
you absolutely you should be able to turn around to
them and say, well, don't you have the alternative forms
(37:44):
of identification? Yeah, And that can be really frustrating, And
we've had a lot of dms from people who have
been in situations like that. Actually, I'm finding that it's
more people inquiring their first nations, but it's for like
their parents or even their grandparents who maybe haven't had that.
For like, I had a situation where someone was dming
me recently and they're like, I'm trying to set my
mom up because my dad did all of it before
(38:06):
and now he's not around anymore. Like it's the first
time she's had a bank account in her name, but
we need it obviously, she just doesn't have it. And
being remote can be so overwhelming and you just think
there aren't any options, but there are so just yeah,
and I think that your website provides a lot of
really good resources, and like just keep asking, like it's
not embarrassing to ask. If they say no, it's actually
(38:29):
because they don't understand it, and you're not in this
position on your own. Like it's so common, Like it's
literally coming up as a question that I have put
in the first episode with you because it comes up
so damn often. Well, what I think the great things
at the moment? Pretty I would say pretty much. Most
of the major banks have indigenous customer service teams too
(38:50):
that are specialized to help assist mob with focals. And
I don't know necessarily know if everybody knows that, But
if you say, for instance, we're to call up your
financial institution and say, look, I identify as Aboriginal and
or Horris straight Islander. Do you have an Aboriginal call
center or something that I can go through to? Most
of them do? I know? One hundred percent that's CBA, Westpac, NAB.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I believe the Big four do.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, So if you have a situation with like identification
or something along those lines, they should be able to
help assist you in navigating those but I think one
of the biggest problems is the lack of awareness around
those call centers existing in the first place.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
We just don't know, like why would you know to
call up the bank, and when you're talking to the bank,
be like, hey, is this relevant? Like sometimes you don't
want to bring that up either, but I think it's
really important to just ask what's the worst thing? They say, Oh, no,
we don't have that. I'd be considering changing banks.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, that's it. So yeah, I'm like going straight through
to them, and they've got the tools and the skills
and that to be able to assist Mom in any
of those difficult situations. But yeah, absolutely, all right, I'm
very quickly running out of time with you. I feel
like we've had the best chat and I'm so grateful
for it. So can you explain humbugging and share a
(40:08):
couple of practical tips for setting boundaries while keeping strong
relationships because that could be really hard. Yeah. Again, it
comes down to that conversation around first nations, people participating
in a sharing economy, and when that's sharing and the reciprocity, right,
everyone's participating, there's this give and tape natural EBB and
(40:28):
flow of resources in community. That is a sharing economy.
It's where everyone is participating. And humbugging is where you're
essentially targeted because you're the primary breadwinner in community or
in your family. And we see this a lot with footballers, right,
(40:49):
Like they're on high incomes and then they go home
to community and they're left with nothing. We know a
famous footballers that have retired with absolutely nothing, right, And
so that is humbugging. It is when people are taking
from you. And one of the great things about the
First Nations Foundation financial literacy programs is we address a
(41:10):
lot of that humbugging and how to actually deal with it.
We actually help you budget in kinship obligations, right, so
instead of going this is not like you know, like
whatever whatever's left ee, role just give out, it's how
do you budget in those kinship obligations. So humbugging is
financial abuse. It's just what the term that we call it.
(41:31):
And yeah, it just happens when you're constantly targeted and
you know, then you're left with no money or resources
for yourself. And so it starts by I think the
way to overcome it, or the way in which we
teach people in order to deal with it is to
remove the shame around it and to understand that there's
(41:52):
nothing wrong with you wanting to support your community. That's
a beautiful thing, but it's also important that you protect
yourself because you might end up in a situation where
something happens and you need cash and you need a
little bit of money aside. One of the things that
we help people do, like I mentioned, was actually budgeting
kinship obligation. So we go through the budgeting tool and
(42:13):
then go, you know, like I know Auntie comes to
me every week for fifty dollars to get X, Y
and Z or whatever it is, and I know that
this person does, and we know that this person does,
and it's like, okay, well, what can you realistically budget
for with your kinship obligations whilst also putting money aside.
Maybe you have three hundred dollars at the end of
the week. Maybe you decide that one hundred and fifty
(42:34):
of that goes into your savings, your rainy day funds,
and then one hundred and fifty that goes to your
kinship obligations, right, and just learning to say, look, I
don't have fifty, but I have twenty because I also
got to give this person thirty or you know, and
kind of making sure that there's boundaries in place. It's
not saying no, I'm not helping you. It's saying I
(42:55):
will help you, but I will help you within these
limitations and these boundaries. You know, maybe I can give
you twenty this weekend, thirty next week or something like that,
but you are always making sure that there is a
portion of that money that's kept aside to kind of
help you build up your wealth and do the things
that you want to do whilst yeah, again like being
(43:17):
able to support mom.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
And it's a really challenging situation to be in. And
obviously I have not been in this situation, but I
have had the privilege of talking to our community members
who have been, and often you find and like, I
feel like this question is going to really resonate with
the community that listened to this episode, because more often
than not, the community I talk to in She's on
the Money, who are First Nations women. They are the
(43:40):
first to go to university, and they're the first to
be bringing in really large paychecks. Like we're not talking astronomical,
but like they are seen in their communities as having
a lot of money, and more often than not, sometimes
it's not about other people taking advantage of you, because
they don't realize that that's what's going on. But like
you're so visible in your community that lots of people
(44:03):
come to you and it's so easy to say yes
and you want to and it's so kind and generous.
But we also live in a very modern economy that
I need you. I'm really sorry, I really need you
to have an emergency fund, Like you still have to
pay your car regro. We can't be going into debt
for these things. So there is a very beautiful balance
that we need to find of kinship obligations. But then
(44:23):
also like making sure that you're in cup is full,
and you were talking about that before, like you can't
pour from an empty cup, and you're seeing, you know,
mums not even being able to feed themselves because they've
basically given it all away, and I just go that
human being must be so beautiful. But I also want
to be like, girl, please stop, Like we need to
have some type of boundary, and it can be really
(44:44):
hard to have those conversations.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
When I was in my early, very very early twenties,
left school and started working I dropped out of work
a number of times because I was like, I don't
see the point because by the time it came payday,
I had no money anyway, and I was like, what's
going to getting up and going to work? And then
I started having to learn how to say no, but
to leave. On that note that I had to realize
(45:07):
that my kindness was also to some degree, enabling really
destructive behavior for other people. And so while for me,
I was like, I want to give, and I want
to I want to be kind and I want to
be generous and share because I know that I'm blessed
to be in the position that I meet. And what
I didn't understand was yet to some degree I was
(45:27):
enabling some unhealthy behaviors and other people and that isn't love.
And so that's when I started to learn how to
have those healthy boundaries for myself and what did that
look like?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
And that can be really hard, Like that's not just like,
oh'll get some boundaries. Like that's a very challenging conversation
because I mean the process, Oh yeah, and we could
like have this whole conversation. You could go to a
financial counselor and like they can give you all these strategies,
and then when your aunt comes to ask for money again,
you're like, yeah, that's fine, Like you just don't want
to have the confrontational conversation. Like these things are challenging.
(46:01):
And I think that's why your services are so valid,
because you're creating that space and that community where you
can have those conversations and be part of it, and
it just it makes me so excited that you exist.
And I know that we're coming to the end of
this episode, but of course I'm going to put all
of the details for the First Nation's Foundation and every
single resource that we have discussed in this podcast in
(46:21):
the show notes for you, Leah, thank you so much
for joining us and giving our community just such practical
things that they can do with their finances. And guys,
if you found this episode helpful, please share it with
a friend, and don't forget to subscribe because we've got
so many more episodes here to help you get your
money sorted and they are all coming your way. Guys,
(46:42):
see you next time.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
If I shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Does not consider your individual circumstances, She's on the Money
exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied
upon to make an investment or financial decision.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards
your needs. Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money are
authorized representatives of Money sherper p T y lt D
A b N three two one six four nine two
seven seven zero eight AFSL four five one two eight
(47:24):
nine
My name's Aatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations woman
and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young Ganya Niana,
kaka ya Ya bin Ahaka Nian Our gay In Nimbina,
yakarum Jar, Dominyama, Domagaowakaman, damon Imlan Bomber bang gadaboma In
and now in wakah ghana on yak rum jar Watnadaa. Hello,
(00:22):
beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
We thank acknowledge and respect the Abiginal people's land that
we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
knowledge and resources for.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You to thrive. She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that is here to help finance seem a lot more doable.
I'm Victoria Devine and this very special bonus episode is
just for our First Nations community and friends. We're going
to be talking about the extra barriers you often come
up against when it comes to money and most importantly,
the practical steps you can take now to feel more
(01:28):
in control and set yourself up for the future. And
to help with this episode, I am joined by an
incredible guest, Leah Bennett from the First Nation's Foundation. Leah
is a proud Waraderie woman with over fourteen years experience
across superannuation, financial services, and governance, and now Leah heads
up the First Nation's Foundation, who do amazing work helping
(01:51):
First Nations people feel confident with their money and navigate
the unique challenges that they face. Leah, thank you so
much for joining us and making time to come on
the show.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I am actually really excited about this because I know
that a fair few people in my community have been
like I want more content like this, and I'm like, say,
less queens, sit down, I'm going to go get Leah.
She's going to help us here. So let's just dive in.
I want to start by asking you to tell me
in your own words about the First Nation's Foundation and
the work that they do.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, for sure. So fnf's actually been around for twenty
five years. We actually started as a credit union in
Shepard and many many years ago. So we celebrated our
twenty twenty fifth year last October, which is incredible. And
so over the years, FNF has evolved into what it
is today, which is an organization that specializes in financial literacy.
(02:47):
Its content is created by a mob for mob and
so culture is essentially at the core of everything that
we do. We have a number of programs, everything from
our Financial Fitness which helps mom go through the basics
of budgeting. We have our Women's program, which is one
of our most important programs because about eighty seven percent
(03:10):
of our participants are actually women anyway, so we were like, well,
it makes sense that we would do a women's program,
which is everything from our own podcast, YouTube channel, we
run women's workshops. We also have a new youth program
that we're about to roll out for kids between the
ages of fifteen to twenty five because for us, we
(03:33):
understand that getting in early with financial literacy as kids
are leaving school and entering the workforce is so essential.
And so I'm so incredibly excited about that youth program
as well.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I'm excited about that on your behalf like that just
you're right, that's where we need to get them, like
we need to get you while you're young and set
you up properly for the future.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, right, Like I was just in Parliament, the Parliamentary
Sittings a few weeks ago, talking about the need to
update the curriculum school right because it hasn't been reviewed
in a really long time. And financial literacy is such
an essential life skill for everybody. Financial literacy levels they're
at an all time low in general, So it's not
(04:13):
just to issue that First Nations people are facing, but
it's a national crisis, I would say, so, yeah, being
able to get them while they're young and set up
those healthy kind of you know, even for mom too,
like healthy boundaries. Yeah. First Nations Foundation also does a
lot of advocacy stuff, so advocating for mobs, so understanding
(04:34):
what mob needs, and I think most importantly to understand
that every First Nations person's at a different place in
their own financial literacy journey, and so we try not
to come from a deficet lens. We really try to
empower our First Nations people to take control of their
financial literacy journey and we walk beside them while we
do that.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I love that, and I'm going to make sure
that I get all of this into the show notes,
so people don't need to take notes or like try
and remember what you said, because we haven't even gotten
into the crux of the conversation. But I'm pretty sure
a few years might have pricked up when they're like, oh,
what's the financial fitness course? Or you know, what's this
women's program? So all of the info will be in
our show notes. You don't have to like stop and
write notes in She's on the Money, I would say
(05:17):
one of the most powerful things we do is share
our money stories on the show. And for First Nations
women particularly, how do history and culture shape the way
that you guys relate to money and to services and
what are the first steps to rebuild trust and just
feel in control.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Gosh, that's such a huge question.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Sorry, it's a big question.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Let's start at the beginning. First Nations people have either
been allowed to participate in the economy for the last
fifty years, we weren't able to get jobs, open up
bank accounts, buy homes, and so as a result of that,
like our financial literacy levels are significantly lower. Because even
my own mum grew up in the generation and where
(06:00):
she wasn't part of the constitution, right, So people say, oh,
these things happen like two hundred years ago, and I
was like, no, no, it didn't. It's so recent, Like
it's it is so recent. But in saying that too,
then there becomes this lack of trust in the institutions themselves.
And I mean only ACIK again have brought out a
(06:20):
report on A and Z and some of the misconduct
in banking there, and almost every week one of the
super funds or the banks are in the news because
they're doing something that's harmful to vulnerable people within our community,
and not just vulnerable people but just customers in general.
So they're not doing all that much to kind of
rebuild that trust with First Nations people. I think there's
(06:42):
just been also, like I think really important to note
a lack of intergenerational wealth that I think people don't
even realize. Like for people that come from intergenerational world
and I'm not saying that you come from a family
that has millions and billions of dollars, but to know
that if something went wrong, you could go to mom
(07:04):
and dad and they could help you out, or you know,
to pay the mortgage or to help with a deposit
for a home loan or something along those lines. That
death doesn't exist for First Nations people, and so we
know deep down and how far behind we are in
the game and just trying to play catch up. It
can be really overwhelming. But most importantly, this real sense
of shame and around you know, everyone kind of knows
(07:26):
where you sit. Within the economy itself, people just naturally
just assume that you don't know what you're doing. So
even applying for bank loans or car loans and having
being able to have conversations at an institutional level, that
makes sense. So evaluation is a really good example of
really convoluted, unnecessary language that's used within the system that
(07:49):
prevents people from interacting with it. Even the average person
is like, sorry, what do these words mean?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like, oh, yeah, we're already at a disadvantage, but First
Nations people are at more of a disadvantage. And it
blows my mind that they don't take that more seriously
or put more time or energy or effort into it,
because it's not like you guys aren't jumping up and
down and being like, excuse me, I don't know if
you noticed, but.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, and I think for things I can because we
run the Indigenous super Working Groups, So we took that
over two years ago to try and advocate for the
rights of First Nations people within the supervaluation sector and
work directly with the sector itself. But the superaluation they
just don't have any First Nations representation in the rooms
having the conversations at an operational level. So when we're
(08:33):
talking about products and service and delivery, where are the
First Nations voices in those rooms that are assisting with that.
And so when you have a predominantly one demographic, I
won't say all white men that I call.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Them mediocare middle aged white men, so like you don't
have to be not offensive, that's just what I call
them as a base level.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
But the reality is is that there aren't other voices
in those rooms, like you know, even if we're talking
about the rights of you know, people with disabilities and
how they access services and people that fall under that
vulnerability bucket, there is still so much work that needs
to be done at an institutional level to help support
First Nations people. And there's instances I've heard or have
(09:15):
been watching my attention where First Nations people have called
up call centers to access the service that have been
discriminated against or been made to feel ashamed, you know,
like made to feel like an idiot, so you're not
going to call back up, You're not going to interact
with that, and so yeah, like it's just there's so
much still institutionalized issues and again just dealing with the
(09:35):
shame that we deal with internally as well. I reflect
on my own financial literacy journey, Like I didn't really
know what I was doing with money. I came from
my mother who's first Nations, raised my brother, and I
had low levels of financial literacy my own concept and
views and relationship just my relationship with money and understanding that.
(09:57):
And I wasn't until I was in my late twenties
early thirties that I picked up Barefoot Investors because I
was just kind of like I need to start somewhere
to take control, like and I don't know who to trust,
and you know, like started listening to podcasts and people
talk about different things, and to some degree that brought
up a lot of shame for me internally to be like, oh,
(10:18):
should I have not already been somewhere else by this
point in my life, Like, yeah, just trying to navigate
that without the tools that I needed to get to
where I am. So there are so many challenges and
barriers that are in the way, and again community expectations
as well that can be quite difficult. First nations, people
participate in the sharing economy and I didn't even know
(10:40):
that there was a name to it. I knew that
I was participating in it my whole life. But it's
a sharing economy. And our concept of wealth and money
differs to Western society, where Western society is about the
accumulation of wealth, like I need to get more and
more and hold on to it. Where one of the
beautiful things about our culture is that we care for
one another. So yeah, like when money comes in, you'll
(11:03):
have mobcome around and family and say, oh, I need
money for this, and it's just like a no brainer.
You just do it because you care for each other
and they do that in return. But one of the
problems is is if not everybody is participating in the
sharing economy, it becomes humbugging. Its financial abuse, and so
that becomes problematic for people as well. So yeah, there's
(11:24):
definitely different layers. There's different layers for us on personal levels.
Learning how to set healthy boundaries, navigating resources that help
us do that, and deal with the internal shame that
we face around those sorts of things. But also still
how these larger institutions are kind of working alongside us
to improve services one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And you touched on this before, like you know, you
said before, it was only fifty years ago that you
were officially allowed to participate in this economy, which is
messed up to begin with. We won't dive into that,
but money is already difficult. Money is hard for most
people in general. What additional barriers apart from the fact
that you've been excluded for so long? Are First Nations
(12:06):
women more likely to face when it comes to money.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, I mean there's a huge portion of our women
that are in dB situations, right, and so one of
the things that one of the programs we have trained
the Trainer helps support support workers community support workers to
help provide financial counseling and two women especially who are
navigating domestic violence situations. So one of those things is
(12:32):
I don't feel that I can leave this situation because
I don't have the resources to be able to do that.
I don't have the money to be able to do that.
I don't know how to budget or you know, this
fear of being able to provide for your children, right, Like.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
It's terrifying as a concept.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, yeah, and so like there's yeah, one of the
things with our training is really just trying to assist
those women to give them the skills so that they
can have the confidence to leave and building up wealth
for themselves so that they're not stuck in a position
where they can't leave a domestic violent situation or even
a family violent situation. So really just giving them the skills.
(13:11):
They also like community commitments right again, Like we're so
very tied to our communities, which is such a positive
and beautiful thing. Like it's not something that I would
ever advocate that we change as people. That it's that
you can be so tied down to community needs and
requirements that you forget about your own well being. And
(13:32):
so one of the things that I always I love
about our women's program and talking to is how do
you balance like protecting yourself and setting boundaries with community,
Because you can't pour from an empty cup. You also
have to care for yourself. So it's so fine to
love others and to serve in community the way that
you do. But again, you have to take care of
(13:53):
yourself and you have to take In some instances, I've
seen women give so much that they haven't had the
ability to be able to fear their own children and
look after their own needs. And that's where that healthy
boundaries comes in. And I think that's so programmed into us.
And I think in a society today where maybe balanced
responsibility between men and women look different as well, women
(14:17):
are carrying a lot more burdens. So yeah, there's definitely
more cultural types considerations.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Absolutely. And if someone comes to you and they say
I really need help with money matters or their suffering
and you've kind of identified their suffering from financial hardship,
what is the first thing you recommend to them?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Financial counselors. Financial counselors are a free service and they
have the ability to work with individuals to provide support
that they wouldn't normally be able to access. And this
isn't just for First Nations people. Financial counselors are available
for all people, but financial Counseling Australia actually have some
First Nations counselors that work directly with mob because they
(14:59):
understand the cultural needs of First Nations people and so
that can be helping them navigate some severe debt, could
even be advocating on behalf of them. Right. So a
lot of First Nations people don't even realize that there's
on Bundsman's for example, Right, So, what happens if there's
some misconduct or something's happened to you in an interaction
(15:21):
with the financial services sector, who do you complain to?
Where do you go? On? Budsman's can support and can
help with that. And I'll give you an example of
a really good case. And this is why I always
say to people, go to on Budsman's for support. One
of my best friend's sister was in a domestic violence
situation recently. Her ex partner had set up a business Forutulantly,
(15:44):
she was essentially coerced into setting up a business wrapped
up one hundred and eighty thousand dollars bass Biel. She's
a single mum, nos, no, just basically on Center Link
family payments and the ATO basically gone after for one
hundred and eighty thous and all the debt that's not hers,
that's so messed up. She went to the ATO to
(16:04):
prove she was in a DV situation that that wasn't
her debt. They've ignored that she went to them and
they ignored that, yes, yeah, correct, And then they also
didn't provide her the correct vulnerability team that would be
able to support her. And so I've been very very
vocal about this particular situation. And there's a tax on budsmen, right,
(16:25):
So there's an actual I didn't you think if anyone
would know that, it would be me. But I didn't
even know. I was in a forum basically blasting the
ATO in an open conversation and someone said the tax
on Budsmen's over there, and.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I was like, like, where is he sit down?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah? And they were so beautiful, right, Like they were
so helpful to the point where we got notification last
week that the ATO has wiped the debt and will
not be coming up.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Stop it good. I was about to be like, what
can I do? How can I help? Because like, I
can be vocal, you just tell me what you need
me to say.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Girl. Yeah, but like on budsman's it's so useful and
and a lot of the time we don't even know
they exist. And financial counselors can help with that advocacy, right, like,
they can step in and go, Okay, we're not getting
where we need to go with this. Let's get a
non budsman involved in this situation and help them navigate that.
They provide resources and tools that a lot of people
(17:17):
don't even realize they have, and then can obviously help
with things like budgeting and the understanding finance. And you know,
they're not going to get into the technical things like
where should you invest your super but they will help
when you're in financial crisis and you need some help.
They're always the first person I say go to.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, we're not talking about hey, like let's set up
an ETF portfolio, because unfortunately that's not going to work there.
But I also think that even conversations like this are
really helpful because you know, you might not be going
through a similar situation, thankfully, but now you know that
the ombardsmen exists, and if you hear about another friend
that's going through this, you can be like, oh my god,
(17:54):
so actually there's this thing and I don't know enough
about it, but I know enough to be dangerous, and
I can use Google and we can work out what
that actually means. And I think that that's where this
sharing economy that you guys have is so beautiful because
it's not just financial, it's all about knowledge and skill sharing,
and like just there's so much beauty in that community.
Talk to me a bit more about the first thing
(18:16):
that you suggest, So not necessarily people going through financial
hardship or even like they're you know, in these situations,
just general First Nations people that come across FNF. What's
the first thing you suggest that our First Nation's community
members do to just set themselves up for success when
it comes to money.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
We always guide people to our online modules. So all
of our content on our website is completely free for mom.
So we have some online courses.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
You guys are so good, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Thank you. But we have some online modules that people
can go through their self pay. So you know, if
you've got kids and your you know, you can try
to juggle learning online and you know one life is busy,
Yeah you can. You can jump on when it's convenient
for you. We have a number of resources that are
(19:10):
also just available on our website on how Tomorrow Money website,
which goes from everything like by doing basics to how
to watch out for scams and disaster recovery and you
know all these sorts of stuff. You know what you
need to set yourself up. So if you're renting a
home for the first time, what are the things that
you need to consider Potentially you know, some home and
(19:31):
contents insurance or just contents insurance, depending on your situation.
We always just point people to the website first and foremost,
and for those people that want to then get further
information and do more of our workshops and we get
them to register for them. We also have our Rich
Black Women webinar series that happens I think it's monthly
(19:52):
that's run by one of our fabulous trainers, Kienna. So yeah,
usually it's just our online resources to get people familiar
with the type of content too that we deliver.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
That's cool, Like just the fact that you have like
a Rich Black Women webinar, I'm like, yeah, get at
Queen's I love this.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We've just recorded Rich Black Women Season three, which is
Rich Black Women in Business last Friday, and I was
inspired with this series because a lot of the women
that I had interviewed on Rich Black Women, they all
started where we all start kind of thing, and I
think sometimes first Nations women go, oh, I can't reach
(20:29):
that because I'm in a bad situation or whatever it is.
And you know, I grew up in family violence. I've
been in a DV situation, and you know, I'm thirty
seven next month and I've owned my own business. I've
sat on boards, I've done it, and I never thought
that I would ever get to where I've gotten to
if you had asked me when I was back in that.
(20:50):
And so it was really an opportunity to inspire other
First Nations women who might be in difficult situations to
still aspire to more if that's what they want to
do one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And you're like so capable of it before and you
were touching on you know something that broke my heart.
You were like, oh, I started like learning about financial
literacy and a lot of shame came up and I
felt like I was behind, and you know I should
be shamed by that, and I'm just like, no, Like,
you're taking control of this situation where you know, there
are so many First Nation's businesses out there, and the
(21:20):
coolest thing about them is we know that they weren't
backed by intergenerational wealth like mommy or Daddy did not
turn around to go, oh, honey, you want to start
a business, I'll give you one hundred grand, Like you
didn't get that foot up. Every single thing that you
guys have done has been off your own backs and
off community and off supporting one another. And that just
makes me, I don't know, so proud by virtual Like
(21:43):
I'm just looking at it, going you guys are killing it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And it's so cool because most recent figures show that
First Nations businesses contribute sixteen billion dollars to the Australian economy.
That's not sole traders. That is businesses where they have
twenty or more employees, so the numbers obviously way bigger
than that, and it's just, yeah, it is inspiring. I
think a new report will be is due to come
(22:07):
out at the end of this year, which I'm hoping
most figures are just going to do all triple inside.
Oh they are, they absolutely are, and like that's it's
just so exciting, and I think that we need to
be sometimes like you guys as a community need to
be reminded of all this cool stuff you're doing, because
when it gets down to a personal level and you
start like looking at a budgeting and cash flow and
you know, working out all this stuff that you were
(22:30):
not taught in school because as you said before, Leah,
you had to literally go to Parliament to be like,
by the way, your curriculum.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Is out dated, Like this stuff isn't taught. So why
are you feeling bad about content that you never laid
eyes on? And you were already at a disadvantage for
because you didn't have parents who were financially literally, you
didn't have people that sat you down and said, all right, well, Leah,
this is how you budget, this is how.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You cash flow.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Like sorry, it makes me so mad that you had
to feel shame through that process instead of going wow,
like we're not starting again, we're not starting from scratch.
We're just starting from here and like things can be
better and things can be different and you can feel
even more empowered, Like it should be an empowering journey,
and like I don't know how to get from where
that exists, because we know it does to Like every
(23:17):
single person who engages in this content doesn't feel shame.
They just feel like, oh my god, this could be
so good for me. But the content that you create
on a regular basis is doing that. Like, I just
know that the people that are tuning into rich black women,
they get off and they're like icons, look at them.
Go even your story. I'm like, look at this, like
this woman is absolutely killing it. And if we went
(23:39):
back and spoke to baby, you'd be like, not possible. Sorry,
you just proved it wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's so good now and just to see the young
women come through too that are starting their careers and yeah,
just like the confidence that they have and that's yeah,
that is just it's wise me all the time. You know.
There was a story of a mum who'd done now
one of our workshops and she's now teaching her babies,
(24:07):
like her little ones, how to budget with their allowance
and stuff. And I was like, that is taken your
power back, right, Like that is going, Okay, I might
not have all the answers and I don't. I don't
know everything, but what I do know, I'm now going
to transfer that knowledge onto my baby so that they
can have yeah, more than what I did it And
(24:27):
that's why we do what we do.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
No, it's so beautiful, isn't it. First nations women retire
with much less supernuation on average, with average estimates being
around sixty one percent less than the superanuation balance of
non indigenous men. No, unacceptable, And obviously there needs to
be not just change, not just conversation, but systematic change.
(24:52):
What can individuals be doing to put themselves in a
better position when it comes to retirement, because, like I mean,
sometimes we're all just the same and talking about retirement.
It's not that sexy.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah. No, And obviously disclaim this is not financial advice.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
No, no, no, it's okay. There's a disclaimer on the podcast, babe,
there's a disclaimer in my show notes. This is just
a conversation between two friends about tools and resources that
you guys could access, and hopefully a conversation that makes
you go, maybe I should think about retirement because you're
at it's not that sexy, But I actually am in
control of this, and I actually could put future me
(25:28):
in the best possible position, and like maybe one day
we might have some type of intergenerational wealth and we
could brag about that.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah. I think there's a couple of factors that are
contributing to this. That can be early access to super right,
so in severe financial high chip and so people need
to access their superannuation. The second situation is that women
are obviously taking time off to have babies, and then
(25:57):
even when them babies go to school, you know, there's
a sick date, Mum has to take time off, don't
get paid to you know, for those days, and so
she's working just far less in general, which is obviously
meaning that there's less contributions being made to her super annuation.
And women are take on more caring type responsibility roles
(26:18):
within their community. Right, and that is that you probably
spend less time working, which obviously means that there's less
at retirement. Each individual person circumstances are going to be different, right,
Like there's no one size fits all, but it's about
what you can do. And I want to circle back
kind of to the conversation, bring it back to myself
that like I had zero financial literacy skills whatsoever, but
(26:43):
over time really understanding the importance and significance of super
annuation to empower myself to understand how I can get
the best out of it for my retirement. And that
was talking to financial planners to understand how my super
manual should be invested. Because everyone who has a super
(27:03):
anuation fund it automatically goes into a default investment time,
and so most of us just leave it and we
don't interact with our super annuation until we're getting closer
retirement aid, and then by then it's too late. So
you're not getting compounded interest to the degree in which
you might if your investments were allocated somewhere else. And
so it's really important to kind of consider that, while
(27:27):
it seems so so far away, that it is something
that just having a phone call and talking to somebody
to get some level of advice around your super annuation,
because at the end of the day, what your supervaluation
is invested in will dictate how much you retire with right, absolutely, Yeah,
So talking to a financial planner around that, because again
(27:49):
everyone's individual circumstances are so different based off the work
you're doing. I mean, some people make additional contributions into
their super annuation and that could be a certain amount
that could be within your budget that would be helpful.
A financial planner would be able to assist in helping
you kind of understand what that might look like and
(28:10):
what might be reasonable. And I think too, I used
to underestimate so much about even just putting the smallest
bit away and investing it like, yeah, I've got money
in some additional investment. Because I started investing, I just
became a nerd about it. And I was like, I'm
so excited because like, home ownership might not be an
option for some people. So I was like, I want
(28:32):
to learn how to invest, Like what's this about? And
you know, I didn't even like even just the smallest amounts, like,
we'll still make a difference, and I think we underestimate that.
So yeah, just equipping yourself with the skills. There is
systematic issues, legislative issues, there's things that need to have,
you know, changes that are outside of our control. But
(28:53):
for me, it's all about what can you control with
what you have and understanding too. I think it's one
of the biggest issues in the superaluation sector is the
fact that most First Nations people, or a large majority
of First Nations people, will die before they reach preservation eight.
So they'll die before they get to sixty five. And
so then you would go, why would I care about this?
(29:13):
Because that then becomes a legacy plan for your family, right,
and so you putting money aside and taking care of
this nest egg. It's the first time in history, you
will have the opportunity to pass on into generational wealth.
And having that then means that your family will be
cared for after you've passed away, and.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
You can make a plan for that. And I think
a lot of people. I have spoken to a lot
of First Nations people about that, and they're like, well,
my mum died at fifty five and my dad died
at sixty two and they never got to access it,
so why would I care? And valid, very very valid.
But you're creating the legacy that your ancestors weren't afforded
and now we can make change, and that is so beautiful,
(29:57):
and making a plan around that is so important. I
actually this morning recorded the second part to my mini
super series. I did like a two part thing on
the importance of not just being in your default portfolio,
what you can do to check your super how you
can do it, because as much as your recommendation of
talking to a financial planet is fantastic, it can also
(30:17):
feel really out of reach because we can't all afford
to go and get advice. The other thing I would say,
and I'll put all of the information in the show notes,
You guys are going to have a bank of resources
in there. I do apologize. But the other thing I
would say is if you have a superfund and you're
paying super fees, which spoiler you are, if you have
a super fund, you can call your supernuation fund for
(30:39):
free to discuss anything about your super balance, anything about
the fund, their performance, your risk profile, what you should
be investing in, what's going to put you in the
best possible position, all for free. So it's not necessarily
free because you're already paying your super fees for it,
but they're kind of non consensual fees that you're paying anyway,
so you may as well make the most out of it.
(31:01):
And I would say that most super funds, you're not
calling up the CEO. It's just normal people who talk
in normal language about these topics. And maybe that's not enough,
but like it's a really good place to start.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
And one of the things that we're advocating for at
the moment is greater cultural competency within the superannuation sectors
call centers. So when our community calls up, they're dealing
with people that they feel safe, have any arm with,
right like they're not going to be judged, and there's
some support there. The superanuation has a long way to go,
(31:37):
but there is that support within the superannuation sector. And
I do want to say to one of the things
that we're currently advocating for. So I've met with their
assistant Treasurer Minisimolino two weeks ago to talk about changing
the legislation to include First Nations kinship structures.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I was about to ask about that, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Bet you to it, because I mean, there's nothing that
can be done at an institutional level that's a legislative requirement.
And it looks like they're really engaged and have appetite
and really really interested in continuing to explore changes. But
it's not even First Nations kinship structures, right. I think,
more broadly, how we view family today is very very different.
(32:22):
You know, I'd like to be able to leave some
of my nephews some money, and like that's a whole
other conversation around beneficiaries and binding beneficiaries and the importance
of that. But one of my aunties, I didn't even know.
She wasn't even a real auntie of mine until I
thought she was like my actual auntie, But she was
my mum's cousin and that's so common, like it's just
(32:43):
such a.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Normal, still related, she's still in the club.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, Oh, she's definite. She was one of my favorite too.
But you know, if she had to go up against
the supervaluation sector to say well, I want access to
the death benefits associated with this super, she would have
been declined, you know. And so I just want to
assure everyone, like we're doing everything at First Nations Foundation
to definitely advocate in these spaces. Legislative changes take time,
(33:09):
but I think it's important that we should feel encouraged
anyway that change is happening and we have buy in
from the government, which is fantastic. Yeah, And I think
that that's a really important topic as well, because I
think it's so important that they are making the time
and the energy and the space to discuss how they
can make sure that your culture is respected when it
(33:30):
comes to super and it's just not. It's just not.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And you're right. In terms of beneficiaries, it's so limited.
I had a friend pass away recently and she had
listed her sister as her beneficiary and even that isn't
acceptable in the superannuation space. But you go, but it's
my money. It should be my choice, like what's going
on here? So there just needs to be so much
done in that space. And I'm grateful that you're standing
(33:56):
up and having conversations about that because to me, that's
more important than you know, just assister getting it. But
like sorry, you guys should have say over the money
that you earned and where it goes and how it's distributed,
not even just firstinations people.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I'm not married and I don't have children. If I
was to pass away tomorrow, where does my money go,
because you know, my kinships structure or the people around
me that I'm closest to. If I haven't listed, if
I don't even know that, I have to list beneficiaries,
which is like a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Most people don't know, like genuinely, I'm I was a
financial adviser, so I know, but that's why I know.
And just the idea that then you would have to
and it becomes more complex and I don't want to
dive too deep into it, but like the way that
you would get that money to a friend or a
family member or to your you know, mum's cousin who's
actually your aunt, is via a trust and via nominating
(34:52):
your estate and then having a complete will set up
and a plan for that estate. But that's another complexity
that you haven't had the privilege understanding, and you can't
expect people to just rely on that when the logical
answer would be heylee, I just log into yours like
super account and just nominate who you want to get
your staff. Like, why is it not that simple?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Anyway?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
I won't go on and on about that. So another
question I have is for our first nation's community members
who actually have limited ID or like mismatched details, which
then blocks them from opening up bank accounts or opening
up a subernuation account, what do we do? What do
you recommend that they do?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, such a great question, and it's a really common challenge.
I think it's really important to actually educate people on
why certain identification is required to so that people can
understand because some people are just like, well, you know,
what does it really matter? I think educating people is
super important, especially with the processes that happen within financial institutions.
(35:57):
Kycing is essentially a protoct or that's put in place
by oz Trapp, which is a regulator to ensure that
people are who they say that they are to protect
from money laundering and terrorism financing. So it's really really important.
It's important to protect you, and it's important to protect
our communities to ensure that criminal activity is not happening.
(36:19):
And so while sometimes these processes can seem really rigid
and frustrating, they are there to protect us. But there
is what's called an Alternative forms of Identification guideline that
was put out by os TRACK to accommodate not just
First Nations people but vulnerable people in general. So you're
a person who has fled a domestic violence situation and
(36:42):
you don't have any identification with you, but you need
to access your super or money from your bank or
something along those lines. Those institutions have to comply with
that alternative forms of identification. And so if your MOB
and all you've put is a community card, maybe you
don't have a birth certificate or anything like that, all
of the institutions now should be in a position where
(37:04):
they can use that alternative forms of identification. And that
could be too even if you're in a remote more
remote community and you don't have access to the conventional
services like branches and all that sort of stuff called
JPS or police or anything. You can actually get a
referee form signed by an elder in community that can say, yeah,
(37:24):
I attest to the fact that this person is who
they say that they are, and so there are options there.
So if at any point you're ever turned down by
an institution to say well, if you don't have a
driver's license or these are mismatching or anything along like that,
you absolutely you should be able to turn around to
them and say, well, don't you have the alternative forms
(37:44):
of identification? Yeah, And that can be really frustrating, And
we've had a lot of dms from people who have
been in situations like that. Actually, I'm finding that it's
more people inquiring their first nations, but it's for like
their parents or even their grandparents who maybe haven't had that.
For like, I had a situation where someone was dming
me recently and they're like, I'm trying to set my
mom up because my dad did all of it before
(38:06):
and now he's not around anymore. Like it's the first
time she's had a bank account in her name, but
we need it obviously, she just doesn't have it. And
being remote can be so overwhelming and you just think
there aren't any options, but there are so just yeah,
and I think that your website provides a lot of
really good resources, and like just keep asking, like it's
not embarrassing to ask. If they say no, it's actually
(38:29):
because they don't understand it, and you're not in this
position on your own. Like it's so common, Like it's
literally coming up as a question that I have put
in the first episode with you because it comes up
so damn often. Well, what I think the great things
at the moment? Pretty I would say pretty much. Most
of the major banks have indigenous customer service teams too
(38:50):
that are specialized to help assist mob with focals. And
I don't know necessarily know if everybody knows that, But
if you say, for instance, we're to call up your
financial institution and say, look, I identify as Aboriginal and
or Horris straight Islander. Do you have an Aboriginal call
center or something that I can go through to? Most
of them do? I know? One hundred percent that's CBA, Westpac, NAB.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I believe the Big four do.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, So if you have a situation with like identification
or something along those lines, they should be able to
help assist you in navigating those but I think one
of the biggest problems is the lack of awareness around
those call centers existing in the first place.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
We just don't know, like why would you know to
call up the bank, and when you're talking to the bank,
be like, hey, is this relevant? Like sometimes you don't
want to bring that up either, but I think it's
really important to just ask what's the worst thing? They say, Oh, no,
we don't have that. I'd be considering changing banks.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, that's it. So yeah, I'm like going straight through
to them, and they've got the tools and the skills
and that to be able to assist Mom in any
of those difficult situations. But yeah, absolutely, all right, I'm
very quickly running out of time with you. I feel
like we've had the best chat and I'm so grateful
for it. So can you explain humbugging and share a
(40:08):
couple of practical tips for setting boundaries while keeping strong
relationships because that could be really hard. Yeah. Again, it
comes down to that conversation around first nations, people participating
in a sharing economy, and when that's sharing and the reciprocity, right,
everyone's participating, there's this give and tape natural EBB and
(40:28):
flow of resources in community. That is a sharing economy.
It's where everyone is participating. And humbugging is where you're
essentially targeted because you're the primary breadwinner in community or
in your family. And we see this a lot with footballers, right,
(40:49):
Like they're on high incomes and then they go home
to community and they're left with nothing. We know a
famous footballers that have retired with absolutely nothing, right, And
so that is humbugging. It is when people are taking
from you. And one of the great things about the
First Nations Foundation financial literacy programs is we address a
(41:10):
lot of that humbugging and how to actually deal with it.
We actually help you budget in kinship obligations, right, so
instead of going this is not like you know, like
whatever whatever's left ee, role just give out, it's how
do you budget in those kinship obligations. So humbugging is
financial abuse. It's just what the term that we call it.
(41:31):
And yeah, it just happens when you're constantly targeted and
you know, then you're left with no money or resources
for yourself. And so it starts by I think the
way to overcome it, or the way in which we
teach people in order to deal with it is to
remove the shame around it and to understand that there's
(41:52):
nothing wrong with you wanting to support your community. That's
a beautiful thing, but it's also important that you protect
yourself because you might end up in a situation where
something happens and you need cash and you need a
little bit of money aside. One of the things that
we help people do, like I mentioned, was actually budgeting
kinship obligation. So we go through the budgeting tool and
(42:13):
then go, you know, like I know Auntie comes to
me every week for fifty dollars to get X, Y
and Z or whatever it is, and I know that
this person does, and we know that this person does,
and it's like, okay, well, what can you realistically budget
for with your kinship obligations whilst also putting money aside.
Maybe you have three hundred dollars at the end of
the week. Maybe you decide that one hundred and fifty
(42:34):
of that goes into your savings, your rainy day funds,
and then one hundred and fifty that goes to your
kinship obligations, right, and just learning to say, look, I
don't have fifty, but I have twenty because I also
got to give this person thirty or you know, and
kind of making sure that there's boundaries in place. It's
not saying no, I'm not helping you. It's saying I
(42:55):
will help you, but I will help you within these
limitations and these boundaries. You know, maybe I can give
you twenty this weekend, thirty next week or something like that,
but you are always making sure that there is a
portion of that money that's kept aside to kind of
help you build up your wealth and do the things
that you want to do whilst yeah, again like being
(43:17):
able to support mom.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
And it's a really challenging situation to be in. And
obviously I have not been in this situation, but I
have had the privilege of talking to our community members
who have been, and often you find and like, I
feel like this question is going to really resonate with
the community that listened to this episode, because more often
than not, the community I talk to in She's on
the Money, who are First Nations women. They are the
(43:40):
first to go to university, and they're the first to
be bringing in really large paychecks. Like we're not talking astronomical,
but like they are seen in their communities as having
a lot of money, and more often than not, sometimes
it's not about other people taking advantage of you, because
they don't realize that that's what's going on. But like
you're so visible in your community that lots of people
(44:03):
come to you and it's so easy to say yes
and you want to and it's so kind and generous.
But we also live in a very modern economy that
I need you. I'm really sorry, I really need you
to have an emergency fund, Like you still have to
pay your car regro. We can't be going into debt
for these things. So there is a very beautiful balance
that we need to find of kinship obligations. But then
(44:23):
also like making sure that you're in cup is full,
and you were talking about that before, like you can't
pour from an empty cup, and you're seeing, you know,
mums not even being able to feed themselves because they've
basically given it all away, and I just go that
human being must be so beautiful. But I also want
to be like, girl, please stop, Like we need to
have some type of boundary, and it can be really
(44:44):
hard to have those conversations.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
When I was in my early, very very early twenties,
left school and started working I dropped out of work
a number of times because I was like, I don't
see the point because by the time it came payday,
I had no money anyway, and I was like, what's
going to getting up and going to work? And then
I started having to learn how to say no, but
to leave. On that note that I had to realize
(45:07):
that my kindness was also to some degree, enabling really
destructive behavior for other people. And so while for me,
I was like, I want to give, and I want
to I want to be kind and I want to
be generous and share because I know that I'm blessed
to be in the position that I meet. And what
I didn't understand was yet to some degree I was
(45:27):
enabling some unhealthy behaviors and other people and that isn't love.
And so that's when I started to learn how to
have those healthy boundaries for myself and what did that
look like?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
And that can be really hard, Like that's not just like,
oh'll get some boundaries. Like that's a very challenging conversation
because I mean the process, Oh yeah, and we could
like have this whole conversation. You could go to a
financial counselor and like they can give you all these strategies,
and then when your aunt comes to ask for money again,
you're like, yeah, that's fine, Like you just don't want
to have the confrontational conversation. Like these things are challenging.
(46:01):
And I think that's why your services are so valid,
because you're creating that space and that community where you
can have those conversations and be part of it, and
it just it makes me so excited that you exist.
And I know that we're coming to the end of
this episode, but of course I'm going to put all
of the details for the First Nation's Foundation and every
single resource that we have discussed in this podcast in
(46:21):
the show notes for you, Leah, thank you so much
for joining us and giving our community just such practical
things that they can do with their finances. And guys,
if you found this episode helpful, please share it with
a friend, and don't forget to subscribe because we've got
so many more episodes here to help you get your
money sorted and they are all coming your way. Guys,
(46:42):
see you next time.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
If I shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Does not consider your individual circumstances, She's on the Money
exists purely for educational purposes and should not be relied
upon to make an investment or financial decision.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards
your needs. Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money are
authorized representatives of Money sherper p T y lt D
A b N three two one six four nine two
seven seven zero eight AFSL four five one two eight
(47:24):
nine
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.