May 23, 2023 • 26 mins
Are you scared of math? Are numbers just not your thing? Well this does not mean you're automatically bad at money! If left unaddressed, math anxiety can end up shaping decisions you make further down the track and you might bury you head in the sand when it comes to your money. On today's episode we unpack math anxiety, how it plays out and what you can do about it.
Acknowledgement of Country By Natarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Yr
the Order Kerney Whalbury and a waddery woman. And before
we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
(00:22):
through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money podcast for
millennials who want financial freedom.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Now VI, I ask, have you ever.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Found yourself saying something along the lines of I'm not
a maths person, I'm bad at money, I'm scared of maths.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Even yeah, I think I've said all of those things.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
I think I'm going to diagnose you with maths anxiety.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Oh my gosh, thank you for that diagnosis. I can
now live my life free with the diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That makes sense perfect.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
It doesn't mean that you're bad at money necessarily but
today we're going to be looking at it.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I get diagnosed with ADHD legitimately, and that does make
me bad with money. So well, that's probably a whole
episode in itself.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
He's a whole episode in itself. And so the maths
anxiety I'm sure isn't doing you any favors. But here
we go. Why are we talking about this today?
Speaker 5 (01:42):
B I think it is a very important topic to
talk about. Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
But honestly about it, I feel like this topic has
come from the conversations I've been having in our DMS
with our community recently, because so many of you just
feel so overwhelmed when you look at your budget, or
when you look at money, or when you're trying to
work out your bank account. And I feel like so
many times the crux of it when we actually have
the conversation, isn't that you're worried about using software. It's
(02:09):
not about the budget. It's just that you feel so
overwhelmed with the numbers of it. And the reality is
finance and being good at money has nothing to do
with numbers and everything to do with psychology. Because we
all have a calculator on our phone, right, Like we
all can use a calculator because they made us buy
those expensive ones when we went to school and carry
(02:30):
them around as though, Oh, if you don't use this calculator,
how are you going to live in your life not
knowing that an iPhone would literally have way more power
than literally anything that.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Came out of the nineties. But I digress.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
I think it's just so important to understand that so
many of us have maths anxiety and number anxiety, and
that can actually play into us assuming that we'll be
terrible at money, when in reality.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's got nothing to do with that. And just because you.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Have decided not to, you know, study or work in
something that maths heavy, doesn't mean that you don't know
what you're talking about. Like, at the end of the day,
I think we can all wrap our heads around one
plus one equals too, and I, my friend, will teach
you the rest like I've got the rest. I'll teach
you about investing. I'll teach you it in a way
that makes sense for you. But at the end of
the day, most of us bury our head in the
sand when it comes to money, because honestly, it just
(03:18):
feels overwhelming and uninspiring, and so many of us will
tell ourselves the narrative like I've.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Never been good at numbers, or I've never been good
at money. I've never been good at all of these beings.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
It's because it's about psychology. Think about your friends who
are really good at saving beck. Are they mathematicians? No,
they probably just have their heads screwed on and they
know what their goals are. We think about the people
who have, you know, really high incomes that aren't.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Good at money.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
So we don't need cos and ten and sin.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Oh you remember all of those. I'm so smart you did,
Thank you. You don't actually need those because they have
nothing to do with you creating financial security and getting
your budget and cash flow slaughted and putting yourself in
their best possible position. So I want to talk about
it today because genuinely, maths is not money, and money
is not maths.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Money is psychology, all.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Right, So I guess, like, on the back of that,
what does math anxiety actually look like for people?
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Panic, overwhelmed, that pet in your stomach or you know
that lump in your throat. Yeah, anxiety in general, it
shows up when you're asked to solve a maths problem
on the spot. I get that anxiety when someone asks
me what my times tables are because I was never
good at rote learning, so I just didn't learn them properly.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yellow.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Sometimes I work in my best friend's coffee cut right. Yeah, yeah,
and safety beach. You guys might know or calculating the change.
I say, you know, this is five dollars seventy. Someone
gives me ten dollars and then another dollar. Well the help, No,
they don't well know if that will help. I don't
know if I don't know if you're trying to trick me.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
But that's technically that would help because I can see
where they're going. It was five dollars seventy and they
wanted a five dollar note.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
That totally and then they wanted a few cents.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah on the spot. No, it's not overwhelming. It is
something helped me.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
You should just get a calculator that you put beside
the register, I think, because that would really help. I
think it's really important as well to just like talk
about this as a normal thing, because how many of
us experience this, but then feel like if we talked
about it, we'd come across a silly or dumb or
like not in an intelligent human being. Yeah, why would
you know how to do something if it's not part
of your curriculum?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Why would you know how.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
To consistently be good at money and budgeting if we've
never learnt before? Becky, if I sent you into a
doctor surgery and said you're the doctor today.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
How could you do that job?
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Well, I'd give it a go.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You give it a go, but I wouldn't known. You
wouldn't know, you'd just be making it up.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Be a tiny baby exactly.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
If somebody sent me into their job as a potter,
I'd like walk in and be like, I don't know
how to make pops, but I don't know how to.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Do this right. I think it looks sexy like I've
always wanted to do, you know, like that scene out of.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Ghost where you can like create a big oas and
it's a centual experience. I'd mess it up here in
two seconds. You know, I don't know how to do
that because I've had no practice in it. You know
how you get good at that you practice in it.
I haven't practiced money. How are you going to be
good at it? Exactly right before we go any Further, though,
I do want to acknowledge that there is a genuine
learning disability that makes it very difficult. It's like dyslexia,
(06:11):
but it's called dyscalcula ah, and it's when you just
really struggle to comprehend numbers. Today, we're not talking about that.
We are talking about math's anxiety, which is more of
a psychological hurdle than a neurological one. And I think
if you're suffering from that, I can't help you in
that aspect because I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist
or working in that space. But what I do talk
(06:33):
about is money and math's anxiety as a generalized concept
that we struggle with. So I don't want people to
listen to this and be like, oh, V, did you
know that's a real thing?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Like I do.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
But we're not talking about that. We're talking about people
like you Beck who just.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Gare really overwhelmed with it.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
But I know you have the power to do it,
and I know you're smart enough and good enough and
it's not hard and if I give you the right push,
like you will actually flourish, right, Like, you'll be fine.
But that's like everybody who's listening right, Like, I know
you can do this because if I can do it,
you can do it. And I know you think that
I'm relatively intelligent.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's just good editing.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
That's just good editing, you know, true, it's just the
person sitting with her twenty four seven, that's definitely true.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
But I feel like math's anxiety can convince you that
you're bad at maths or you're bad at money and
anything that involves numbers. And I just think it's really
important to know that there is legitimate research, beack that
tells us that you being bad at numbers has literally
nothing to do with your actual ability and everything to
do with the fact that you haven't learned how to
(07:33):
do it or you haven't been taught properly.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That actually makes a lot of pretty sexy.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
So has there been any studies into the prevalence of
math's anxiety and how it actually plays out for people?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Obviously?
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Yes, Like, I'm not going to come not well did,
I'm going to come with the proof?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Baby?
Speaker 5 (07:46):
So the twenty seventeen Westpac Numeracy Study found that math's
anxiety affects as many as a third of adults and
children in Australia. One very large study which was connected
in the UK in twenty nineteen. It's a little bit
more recent, found that seventy seven percent of children with
high levels of maths anxiety achieved average to high grades
(08:06):
in the subject.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Ah isn't that good. Yeah, but you're doing really well,
but you're anxious.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Maybe they're just like me and they're just anxious about everything.
So in twenty twelve, a USA study explored what was
happening in the brain of children between the age of
seven to nine while they solved a series of different
maths problems. In kids with money anxiety, scans showed that
the brain regions associated with processing negative emotions were hyperactive,
(08:33):
while those that play a role in mathematical reasoning and
working memory were completely unreactive.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Oh that's very interesting.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
So that means that there is literally a link between
money anxiety and negative emotions. So, no, wonder we don't
want to touch it. Yeah, no, wonder you run away
from it? Who wants to experience negative emotions?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
The maths is mathing right.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Math is actually mathan right now.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
The same study, Beck also found that the effects were
unique to the children with maths anxiety and had nothing
to do with general anxiety, intelligence or reading ability.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
That's good to know.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So it's just maths anxiety. So what I have determined
from this it's a real thing, real thing, real thing.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
We're talking a lot of numbers here. I see it's
going to a quick break and see you guys on
the other side.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
We are back in this episode, I feel like is
a happy, snappy little episode that hopefully puts a pep
in your step when it comes to maths anxiety and
feeling overwhelmed by numbers. I feel like so many of
us experience this, and I just want to grab you
and hug you and be like.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's not you, it's everyone. You're not alone.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Like we all suck at maths, like I fumble at
the checkout sometimes when people are like, oh, it's fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I go, oh my god, if I even got that.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Like, I feel like we all go through this, But
what we should be doing is just normalizing these conversations
because we can learn anything we put our minds to.
And I know this is like the worst quote ever.
Dumber people have dune better things, But do you know
what I mean? Like you look at it like, there
are so many people in this world world who have
less intelligence, but they just put themselves out there they
(10:03):
see killing it at their game or their whatever. It's
going to deal with intelligence.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
In fact, if you want like my favorite book recommendation
of the moment, it's a book called Grit by Angela Duckworth.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
And is it about how ducks are worthy to No.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
It's not about how ducks are worthy too. We are
you are killing me? Ducks are worthy? We like Angela Duckworth.
I mean were canceling jk Rawlings, but that is okay.
But essentially she wrote this book and it's about grit,
and it is this really cool book about how grit
is passion and perseverance for long term goals. And one
way I guess to think about grit is it's not talent,
(10:39):
it's not intelligence. It's actually about how the most successful
people in this world aren't the smartest and maybe they
aren't the most talented, but they're the ones that get
up and try again.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And that's like that grit.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
I think it was twenty thirteen she did a Ted
talk and that Ted talk is amazing. If you don't
want to read the book, just look up grit, the
power of passion and perseverance, and that Ted talk is amazing.
It like makes you feel so empowered, I suppose, because
it's really about this power that you have of perseverance
and actually standing up and just going you know what,
I'm just going to try again, because that's what creates
(11:15):
the most successful people in the entire world. Nothing to
do with intelligence. So if you're telling yourself this narrative
of I'm not smart enough or I'm not good enough,
it actually has nothing to do with that. Sure, So
when I say dumber people have done better things, that's
what I mean because they've probably got that grit. And
I feel like if anyone was to compliment me, I
(11:35):
would love it if people said, she's real gritty.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You seem like you've read that book. When you were
explaining that book to me, I was like, I'm obsessed
with it. You've read it, and it shows, babe.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
It's honestly a really good book about I guess, just
the power of perseverance. Because you know, I'm not silly.
I am relatively intelligent. Let's be honest. I'm a bloody nerd,
but like I'm not the most intelligent person in the
entire world. I'm not the smartest, I'm not the funniest,
I'm not the anything. I'm not eve the best at finance,
I'm not the best podcaster, I'm not anything debatable.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well I know, but I'm genuinely not.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
And I'm okay with that because that means there's heaps
of people I can learn from. But also being gritty
means I will continue to make content. I will continue
to do this stuff, and like you can do that too,
And I just don't want people to feel less than
because they aren't, you know, they're feeling, oh, I wasn't
that smart. At school, we all have narratives of teachers
telling us that we're not good enough, or that we
aren't going to add up to anything, or that you know,
(12:29):
that's the wrong career choice.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
But like, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
What your capability is, or what your intelligence is, or
even what talent you have. You could be the best
singer in the entire world, but you don't have the confidence,
so nobody ever finds that out right, right, Like, you
could be the most intelligent person in the entire world,
but you're you know, so hard on yourself that you
never get to capitalize on the fact that you're the
most intelligent person in the entire world.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
So I just think it's so smart and so I guess,
you know, we can go back into the questions that
you've got for me. But I'm just so passionate about
this topic because I don't want you to be stressed.
I want you to be empowered, Like I want to
have the best days ever. And I know that you
can do it because I can do it. Beck can
do it, Like you just need the education. Yeah yeah,
I agree with that. So I guess, like prevention is
(13:15):
the best cure. I want to know how does it
all develop, so we can kind of like nip it
in the butt and see the signs early. It's obviously
super common for maths and anxiety to start when you're
in primary school because that's when you start learning about maths,
with some studies finding that it can actually start in
kids as young as six years old.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
There does Bambini still.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Funny babies like grayde One, Ah, I shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Feeling five or six. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
No.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
I feel like so many of us, as I said before,
have had bad teachers or you know, unsupportive environments, but
all of that can be changed. Like, I'm so passionate
about this, and we really should do another episode on
money Stories. So if you go all the way back
to season one, episode one, that was my first podcast,
it was.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Called Money Stories.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
And the reason it was my first podcast is because
that's what I'm most passionate about. Like, we can't change
the past. We can't change the environments we had, the
people that supported us. We can't change you know, the
education we were given, the privilege that we had. But
what we can do is change the future. Like you
have no control over what's happened to you, and that's
why we shouldn't crucify ourselves based on our past mistakes
(14:18):
or based on what we did or didn't have access to.
But there are so many amazing people in our community
who have proved to us that you can just change
your money story by choice. I'm not saying it's easy,
but you can change your money story by choice, and
that is such a beautiful thing. And I just think
that if you did have somebody who wasn't the most
supportive or the best environment, like you can become good
(14:40):
at something if.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You choose to be good at it. It's epic.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Maybe you inherited a whole heap of baggage from your parents.
We obviously have our Money Diaries episode where it always asks,
can you tell us a little bit more about your
money story? One because it's my favorite question, But two
it's so pervy and it's so beautiful that we've got
this community that want to share with us. But we
talk to people about the baggage they inherit from their parents,
or their circumstances or traumatic events they've been through, or
(15:05):
we even talk to people about their privilege, like we
have talked to people who have been given it on
a silver platter done nothing with it. Like it's wild
what your money story is made up of. I'm obsessed
with it. Other things spec like gender stereotypes are also
really major sources of negative beliefs about money and maths,
especially in girls and women who tend to experience math
(15:27):
and anxiety way more than boys do, even though they
perform just as well in the subject, Like girls aren't
inherently worse at maths. No, but it's not a girl,
it's topic.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm not a finance bro.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad that we're veering away from
that narrative and hopefully that will not be a common
stat in the future.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
I agree, But isn't it wild? It's also kind of like,
I guess this is another left field part of the conversation,
just even the way that you know, hear it, she's
on the money. We create content is illustrated in the media,
like anytime anything happens Victoria divine and it's always fluffy,
and it's always like her and hergem.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You already have girls.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
But like if somebody who was male did the same
stuff that we did, it would be looked at very,
very differently somehow. Because I am a female who cares
about her nails and her hair and wants to have,
you know, rainbow technic color nails, and I want to
get my eyelash extensions and I really enjoy those things.
That means that I'm probably not as good at money
or finance as you are, right, Like, there's just this
(16:27):
inherent underlying idea that I am not going to be
as good at that. And it's wild when I meet
people in the wild. It's wild when I meet people
and they're like, oh, what do you do? Go, I've
got a podcast and they go, cute, what's your real job?
I go, okay, cool, like I also own a mortgage
broken company.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
They're like, oh, really, do you just work from home?
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Like it's always undermined, it's always underplayed because there's this
stereotype that I don't fit of somebody who might own
a successful finance company.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, that's a real shame.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
I don't even care, Like I could not care less.
It's actually comical, Like, I know sometimes I work from home,
but my team they work from an office. Yeah, and
they kind of like bat their eyes and they're like,
what a team.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
It doesn't have a compute what.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
It's my favorite thing in the entire world. But I
just think that gender stereotypes are obviously this massive source
of anxiety, and they shouldn't be because we're not less
than Ye've just been fed to this patriarchal idea that
women shouldn't be good at things, when in reality, we
know that women are better investors than men. There is
so much research out there to say that if we
(17:35):
just divide the genders and look at who's a better investor,
women are because we take more time, more energy to
understand the circumstances, we are less likely to be responsive.
We're more likely to think about the circumstances. Sure makes
us better at investing.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I like, that's a strong statement, and I'm going to
agree with having absolutely no knowledge on that way.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
But women are more likely to tell themselves that they're
not good at it because they don't know anything about it.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
They're not smart enough.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
That is a real shame, and it's fake, fake news,
fake news.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
Everyone. We're canceling it because you're a really smart girl
and I believe in you.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
But essentially all of these things that we're talking about
today are linked to your story and a linked to
the narrative that you tell yourself as an adult, and
they actually don't reflect your ability at all. You could
actually be amazing at maths and you're thinking about this
going oh wow, that's another part of my life, Like
I'm not so good at comprehension, or I'm not good
at making friends, or I'm not good at whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It is. Like, you can be if you want to be.
I love that you can if you want to be.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
How do we address it?
Speaker 5 (18:38):
It's not a life sentence like you stuck with maths
anxiety forever. To be honest, I really think it's about
education because most of the time we feel anxious about something,
or we're scared about something, or we don't want to
engage in something, or we're just a little bit apprehensive
because we don't know enough about the circumstance. Right, Like
I get social anxiety, and a lot of the time,
(19:00):
thing that alleviates that social anxiety is if I get
told who's going to be there where it is, I'm
far less anxious if I'm going somewhere I've already been
because you already know the circumstances. And basically that's education, right,
So like education makes me feel more comfortable. Same with maths.
You usually are going to feel overwhelmed or anxious about
something if you don't have enough information about that. But
(19:22):
if I set you down and gave you all the
information that you needed. I'm not saying the maths anxiety
is going anywhere, but I promise it will be much
less because you feel a bit more empowered in that circumstance.
So I guess the first step is to challenge your
personal beliefs about yourself and durabilities and maybe ask yourself
what are you good at? And I promise there are
going to be things like, there's so much to this
(19:43):
where I know that if you are anxious or you
don't have enough confidence, you just go, oh, I don't
want to have too many tickets on myself. Well that's
really lame. But honestly, having a low opinion of yourself
it's not modest, it's not sexy. It's actually self destruction.
And I think so many times we try to be
modest and go oh, like I don't want to you know,
look like I'm pumping up my own tires. Why it's
(20:07):
destructive to pretend you're not as good at things as
you are. I mean, there's obviously the flip side of that,
where you have a God complex and you think you're
amazing at absolutely everything, and like watching those train wrecks
of the auditions on Australian Idol, which are one of
my favorite things in the entire world.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
You're just like, ah, that's a lot thank God for
God complex.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Yes, sometimes yeah, thank God because it provides me with
a lot of entertainment. But at the end of the day,
you saying what you're good at is actually just really
constructive and really helpful and helps you leverage into other
parts of your life. You might be really good at conversations.
You might be really good at one or another thing,
and like that's not a bad thing to say, Oh
(20:47):
I'm not good at that, or I am good at that.
It's actually a really good thing to just be real
with yourself, because we can't learn and grow if we
don't know where we're learning and growing from. So take,
for example, like sport or writing. How do you react
when you make a mistake doing something that you're really
confident with? You go, oh my god, whatever, that doesn't
make sense. If you're really good at sport, beck and
(21:08):
you like, you know, we're playing tennis and you're really
really good at tennis and you miss a swing, you're
probably just gonna shrug it off and try again, right,
because you're actually really good at that thing. But if
you were just learning tennis for the very first time
and you miss a swing, you'd be like, I can't
do this.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I suck.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
This isn't good, Like I'm the worst at this, I'm
no good, you haven't had enough practice, and like that's
basically it. But when you make a mistake with maths,
maybe you really punish yourself with negative affirmations or panic right,
of course.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I got it wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I'm so bad at this. Is that helpful for anybody involved?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, And you kind of think like I mustn't have
the brain for this, but I'm sure you do exactly.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
And there's this psychological concept called reframing and I learned
a lot about it when I was studying, but you
can google it reframing and like lots of examples about
reframing to help you. But essentially, instead of saying something like, oh,
I'm not a maths person or I'm just really bad
the money, you could say, oh, just experiencing some math
anxiety is just making me feel a little bit overwhelmed,
(22:05):
Like that's a much better situation to be. And maybe
practicing some math skills in a fun I don't know
if it can be fun. It's fun for me, but
maybe just like no stress environment is probably better. Like
have you done saduku or noodle or I that could
be really fun to get you back into numbers and
then slowly start to do things. I think that there's
(22:27):
this misconception that you need to dive right in and
take every single step. If budgeting or looking at your
money situation is a bit overwhelming, back do you know
what my advice.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Is, don't do it? Don't do it.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
How about we just put that to the side. How
about we start with just looking at your pay slip.
How much money comes into your bank account each week?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Did you know that?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Do we tell you? No? I want to tell me
that if you know that number, you're in a better
position than you were yesterday when you didn't know the
exact amount.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
And maybe that's all we do today. That's fine.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Maybe tomorrow wee can talk about how much you're spending
on your groceries.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Do you know?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Maybe you don't. Maybe we can work that out. Yeah,
maybe we can have a look at what your groceries
look like each and every single week, and you go,
cheese vie. I didn't even know it was that much.
Oh beg, Is there anything you want to change in that?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Yeah, I just need to maybe cut back on how
many cheesecakes I'm buying or something.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
I do a cheesecake and you do.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
But it's one of those things that I think you
don't need to go boots and all into this. Just
take it slowly, because the slower you take it, the
more it's actually going to absorb. Yep, that's why we
don't do anything in intensives. At UNI, I got offered
to do intensive subjects, like you know where they like
take an entire semester, like twelve weeks of content, and
(23:41):
they like pump it into you in four days. So
I did that to get rid of like two subjects
that I really wanted to get rid of. And I
was like, sweet, I'll just do this over the Christmas break.
I'll sign up for two intensives. Could not tell you
what I learned. Couldn't because you know what, I crammed
all that information so I could do the test. At
the end of the day, take it off, go home,
have probably three glasses of wine. Go back the next day,
(24:04):
do the same thing. All right, you know, do my
little group project that we did over four days, submit that,
Breathe a sigh of relief, wait for my result, and
go oh.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Far out glad that's over.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
What did I learn?
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Literally nothing, because I didn't absorb anything, which is why
we need to do it in small chunks over a
long period of time, with things that matter to you,
not with things that don't matter to you. If you're
just starting your budgeting journey or just starting your money journey.
Why are we talking about compound interests? Victoria does think
as a real sexy But is that the best place
to start, right? How do we just start with the
(24:36):
small things? Because the small things are the foundation of
financial literacy. And if we can create a really solid foundation,
if you like, you know, wiggle at the top or
you're like swaying and you're not sure, you're not going
to fall very far because the foundations are really solid.
So I think that we just need to take small
steps and little steps and make sure that the system
works for you. So like automatic payments might work for
(24:58):
you for other people, they might not work for some people.
Having a really good budget spreadsheet like the one in
our Budget and cash Flow master class that I do,
makes a lot of sense for other people, They're like,
I don't want that. I just want an app that
does everything for me. Educate yourself, Listen to Sheese on
the Money, Go into our Facebook. It's the most supportive
place in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
It makes my heart.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Seeing every single day ask questions and normalize this discussion
because to me, it is so important to be having
money conversations because when I talk about money, it puts
you and my friends in a better position, and then
when you talk about money, it kind of spreads. Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It's like do you remember like the phone Trees when
you were.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Younger, Phone Tree?
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Yeah, they had it on Legally Blonde, where like I
call three people and then those three people three people, Like,
that's what.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
We're going to do with financial literacy.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
When you do a legally Blonde flone tree.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Let's try it. Let's churn out to themselves.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think we're done.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I think it's a really good place to leave it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I think so do.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Legally Blond's a very good movie. Go and listen to it.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Go and listen to it, and watch it.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I'm such a podcast and you can.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Listen to it if you want to go.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
All right, have a good day. Loved me on Friday.
Bye bye.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards
(26:28):
your needs. Victoria divine and she's on the money. Are
authorized representatives of money Sherpa pty Ltd ABN three two
one six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL
four five one two eight nine
Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Yr
the Order Kerney Whalbury and a waddery woman. And before
we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
(00:22):
through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money podcast for
millennials who want financial freedom.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Now VI, I ask, have you ever.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Found yourself saying something along the lines of I'm not
a maths person, I'm bad at money, I'm scared of maths.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Even yeah, I think I've said all of those things.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
I think I'm going to diagnose you with maths anxiety.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Oh my gosh, thank you for that diagnosis. I can
now live my life free with the diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That makes sense perfect.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
It doesn't mean that you're bad at money necessarily but
today we're going to be looking at it.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I get diagnosed with ADHD legitimately, and that does make
me bad with money. So well, that's probably a whole
episode in itself.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
He's a whole episode in itself. And so the maths
anxiety I'm sure isn't doing you any favors. But here
we go. Why are we talking about this today?
Speaker 5 (01:42):
B I think it is a very important topic to
talk about. Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
But honestly about it, I feel like this topic has
come from the conversations I've been having in our DMS
with our community recently, because so many of you just
feel so overwhelmed when you look at your budget, or
when you look at money, or when you're trying to
work out your bank account. And I feel like so
many times the crux of it when we actually have
the conversation, isn't that you're worried about using software. It's
(02:09):
not about the budget. It's just that you feel so
overwhelmed with the numbers of it. And the reality is
finance and being good at money has nothing to do
with numbers and everything to do with psychology. Because we
all have a calculator on our phone, right, Like we
all can use a calculator because they made us buy
those expensive ones when we went to school and carry
(02:30):
them around as though, Oh, if you don't use this calculator,
how are you going to live in your life not
knowing that an iPhone would literally have way more power
than literally anything that.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Came out of the nineties. But I digress.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
I think it's just so important to understand that so
many of us have maths anxiety and number anxiety, and
that can actually play into us assuming that we'll be
terrible at money, when in reality.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It's got nothing to do with that. And just because you.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Have decided not to, you know, study or work in
something that maths heavy, doesn't mean that you don't know
what you're talking about. Like, at the end of the day,
I think we can all wrap our heads around one
plus one equals too, and I, my friend, will teach
you the rest like I've got the rest. I'll teach
you about investing. I'll teach you it in a way
that makes sense for you. But at the end of
the day, most of us bury our head in the
sand when it comes to money, because honestly, it just
(03:18):
feels overwhelming and uninspiring, and so many of us will
tell ourselves the narrative like I've.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Never been good at numbers, or I've never been good
at money. I've never been good at all of these beings.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
It's because it's about psychology. Think about your friends who
are really good at saving beck. Are they mathematicians? No,
they probably just have their heads screwed on and they
know what their goals are. We think about the people
who have, you know, really high incomes that aren't.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Good at money.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
So we don't need cos and ten and sin.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Oh you remember all of those. I'm so smart you did,
Thank you. You don't actually need those because they have
nothing to do with you creating financial security and getting
your budget and cash flow slaughted and putting yourself in
their best possible position. So I want to talk about
it today because genuinely, maths is not money, and money
is not maths.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Money is psychology, all.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Right, So I guess, like, on the back of that,
what does math anxiety actually look like for people?
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Panic, overwhelmed, that pet in your stomach or you know
that lump in your throat. Yeah, anxiety in general, it
shows up when you're asked to solve a maths problem
on the spot. I get that anxiety when someone asks
me what my times tables are because I was never
good at rote learning, so I just didn't learn them properly.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yellow.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Sometimes I work in my best friend's coffee cut right. Yeah, yeah,
and safety beach. You guys might know or calculating the change.
I say, you know, this is five dollars seventy. Someone
gives me ten dollars and then another dollar. Well the help, No,
they don't well know if that will help. I don't
know if I don't know if you're trying to trick me.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
But that's technically that would help because I can see
where they're going. It was five dollars seventy and they
wanted a five dollar note.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
That totally and then they wanted a few cents.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah on the spot. No, it's not overwhelming. It is
something helped me.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
You should just get a calculator that you put beside
the register, I think, because that would really help. I
think it's really important as well to just like talk
about this as a normal thing, because how many of
us experience this, but then feel like if we talked
about it, we'd come across a silly or dumb or
like not in an intelligent human being. Yeah, why would
you know how to do something if it's not part
of your curriculum?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Why would you know how.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
To consistently be good at money and budgeting if we've
never learnt before? Becky, if I sent you into a
doctor surgery and said you're the doctor today.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
How could you do that job?
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Well, I'd give it a go.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You give it a go, but I wouldn't known. You
wouldn't know, you'd just be making it up.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Be a tiny baby exactly.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
If somebody sent me into their job as a potter,
I'd like walk in and be like, I don't know
how to make pops, but I don't know how to.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Do this right. I think it looks sexy like I've
always wanted to do, you know, like that scene out of.
Speaker 5 (05:48):
Ghost where you can like create a big oas and
it's a centual experience. I'd mess it up here in
two seconds. You know, I don't know how to do
that because I've had no practice in it. You know
how you get good at that you practice in it.
I haven't practiced money. How are you going to be
good at it? Exactly right before we go any Further, though,
I do want to acknowledge that there is a genuine
learning disability that makes it very difficult. It's like dyslexia,
(06:11):
but it's called dyscalcula ah, and it's when you just
really struggle to comprehend numbers. Today, we're not talking about that.
We are talking about math's anxiety, which is more of
a psychological hurdle than a neurological one. And I think
if you're suffering from that, I can't help you in
that aspect because I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist
or working in that space. But what I do talk
(06:33):
about is money and math's anxiety as a generalized concept
that we struggle with. So I don't want people to
listen to this and be like, oh, V, did you
know that's a real thing?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Like I do.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
But we're not talking about that. We're talking about people
like you Beck who just.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Gare really overwhelmed with it.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
But I know you have the power to do it,
and I know you're smart enough and good enough and
it's not hard and if I give you the right push,
like you will actually flourish, right, Like, you'll be fine.
But that's like everybody who's listening right, Like, I know
you can do this because if I can do it,
you can do it. And I know you think that
I'm relatively intelligent.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
That's just good editing.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
That's just good editing, you know, true, it's just the
person sitting with her twenty four seven, that's definitely true.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
But I feel like math's anxiety can convince you that
you're bad at maths or you're bad at money and
anything that involves numbers. And I just think it's really
important to know that there is legitimate research, beack that
tells us that you being bad at numbers has literally
nothing to do with your actual ability and everything to
do with the fact that you haven't learned how to
(07:33):
do it or you haven't been taught properly.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That actually makes a lot of pretty sexy.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
So has there been any studies into the prevalence of
math's anxiety and how it actually plays out for people?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Obviously?
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Yes, Like, I'm not going to come not well did,
I'm going to come with the proof?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Baby?
Speaker 5 (07:46):
So the twenty seventeen Westpac Numeracy Study found that math's
anxiety affects as many as a third of adults and
children in Australia. One very large study which was connected
in the UK in twenty nineteen. It's a little bit
more recent, found that seventy seven percent of children with
high levels of maths anxiety achieved average to high grades
(08:06):
in the subject.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Ah isn't that good. Yeah, but you're doing really well,
but you're anxious.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Maybe they're just like me and they're just anxious about everything.
So in twenty twelve, a USA study explored what was
happening in the brain of children between the age of
seven to nine while they solved a series of different
maths problems. In kids with money anxiety, scans showed that
the brain regions associated with processing negative emotions were hyperactive,
(08:33):
while those that play a role in mathematical reasoning and
working memory were completely unreactive.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Oh that's very interesting.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
So that means that there is literally a link between
money anxiety and negative emotions. So, no, wonder we don't
want to touch it. Yeah, no, wonder you run away
from it? Who wants to experience negative emotions?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
The maths is mathing right.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Math is actually mathan right now.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
The same study, Beck also found that the effects were
unique to the children with maths anxiety and had nothing
to do with general anxiety, intelligence or reading ability.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
That's good to know.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So it's just maths anxiety. So what I have determined
from this it's a real thing, real thing, real thing.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
We're talking a lot of numbers here. I see it's
going to a quick break and see you guys on
the other side.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
We are back in this episode, I feel like is
a happy, snappy little episode that hopefully puts a pep
in your step when it comes to maths anxiety and
feeling overwhelmed by numbers. I feel like so many of
us experience this, and I just want to grab you
and hug you and be like.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's not you, it's everyone. You're not alone.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Like we all suck at maths, like I fumble at
the checkout sometimes when people are like, oh, it's fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I go, oh my god, if I even got that.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Like, I feel like we all go through this, But
what we should be doing is just normalizing these conversations
because we can learn anything we put our minds to.
And I know this is like the worst quote ever.
Dumber people have dune better things, But do you know
what I mean? Like you look at it like, there
are so many people in this world world who have
less intelligence, but they just put themselves out there they
(10:03):
see killing it at their game or their whatever. It's
going to deal with intelligence.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
In fact, if you want like my favorite book recommendation
of the moment, it's a book called Grit by Angela Duckworth.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
And is it about how ducks are worthy to No.
Speaker 5 (10:17):
It's not about how ducks are worthy too. We are
you are killing me? Ducks are worthy? We like Angela Duckworth.
I mean were canceling jk Rawlings, but that is okay.
But essentially she wrote this book and it's about grit,
and it is this really cool book about how grit
is passion and perseverance for long term goals. And one
way I guess to think about grit is it's not talent,
(10:39):
it's not intelligence. It's actually about how the most successful
people in this world aren't the smartest and maybe they
aren't the most talented, but they're the ones that get
up and try again.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And that's like that grit.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
I think it was twenty thirteen she did a Ted
talk and that Ted talk is amazing. If you don't
want to read the book, just look up grit, the
power of passion and perseverance, and that Ted talk is amazing.
It like makes you feel so empowered, I suppose, because
it's really about this power that you have of perseverance
and actually standing up and just going you know what,
I'm just going to try again, because that's what creates
(11:15):
the most successful people in the entire world. Nothing to
do with intelligence. So if you're telling yourself this narrative
of I'm not smart enough or I'm not good enough,
it actually has nothing to do with that. Sure, So
when I say dumber people have done better things, that's
what I mean because they've probably got that grit. And
I feel like if anyone was to compliment me, I
(11:35):
would love it if people said, she's real gritty.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You seem like you've read that book. When you were
explaining that book to me, I was like, I'm obsessed
with it. You've read it, and it shows, babe.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
It's honestly a really good book about I guess, just
the power of perseverance. Because you know, I'm not silly.
I am relatively intelligent. Let's be honest. I'm a bloody nerd,
but like I'm not the most intelligent person in the
entire world. I'm not the smartest, I'm not the funniest,
I'm not the anything. I'm not eve the best at finance,
I'm not the best podcaster, I'm not anything debatable.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well I know, but I'm genuinely not.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
And I'm okay with that because that means there's heaps
of people I can learn from. But also being gritty
means I will continue to make content. I will continue
to do this stuff, and like you can do that too,
And I just don't want people to feel less than
because they aren't, you know, they're feeling, oh, I wasn't
that smart. At school, we all have narratives of teachers
telling us that we're not good enough, or that we
aren't going to add up to anything, or that you know,
(12:29):
that's the wrong career choice.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
But like, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
What your capability is, or what your intelligence is, or
even what talent you have. You could be the best
singer in the entire world, but you don't have the confidence,
so nobody ever finds that out right, right, Like, you
could be the most intelligent person in the entire world,
but you're you know, so hard on yourself that you
never get to capitalize on the fact that you're the
most intelligent person in the entire world.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
So I just think it's so smart and so I guess,
you know, we can go back into the questions that
you've got for me. But I'm just so passionate about
this topic because I don't want you to be stressed.
I want you to be empowered, Like I want to
have the best days ever. And I know that you
can do it because I can do it. Beck can
do it, Like you just need the education. Yeah yeah,
I agree with that. So I guess, like prevention is
(13:15):
the best cure. I want to know how does it
all develop, so we can kind of like nip it
in the butt and see the signs early. It's obviously
super common for maths and anxiety to start when you're
in primary school because that's when you start learning about maths,
with some studies finding that it can actually start in
kids as young as six years old.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
There does Bambini still.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Funny babies like grayde One, Ah, I shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Feeling five or six. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
No.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
I feel like so many of us, as I said before,
have had bad teachers or you know, unsupportive environments, but
all of that can be changed. Like, I'm so passionate
about this, and we really should do another episode on
money Stories. So if you go all the way back
to season one, episode one, that was my first podcast,
it was.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Called Money Stories.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
And the reason it was my first podcast is because
that's what I'm most passionate about. Like, we can't change
the past. We can't change the environments we had, the
people that supported us. We can't change you know, the
education we were given, the privilege that we had. But
what we can do is change the future. Like you
have no control over what's happened to you, and that's
why we shouldn't crucify ourselves based on our past mistakes
(14:18):
or based on what we did or didn't have access to.
But there are so many amazing people in our community
who have proved to us that you can just change
your money story by choice. I'm not saying it's easy,
but you can change your money story by choice, and
that is such a beautiful thing. And I just think
that if you did have somebody who wasn't the most
supportive or the best environment, like you can become good
(14:40):
at something if.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
You choose to be good at it. It's epic.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Maybe you inherited a whole heap of baggage from your parents.
We obviously have our Money Diaries episode where it always asks,
can you tell us a little bit more about your
money story? One because it's my favorite question, But two
it's so pervy and it's so beautiful that we've got
this community that want to share with us. But we
talk to people about the baggage they inherit from their parents,
or their circumstances or traumatic events they've been through, or
(15:05):
we even talk to people about their privilege, like we
have talked to people who have been given it on
a silver platter done nothing with it. Like it's wild
what your money story is made up of. I'm obsessed
with it. Other things spec like gender stereotypes are also
really major sources of negative beliefs about money and maths,
especially in girls and women who tend to experience math
(15:27):
and anxiety way more than boys do, even though they
perform just as well in the subject, Like girls aren't
inherently worse at maths. No, but it's not a girl,
it's topic.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm not a finance bro.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad that we're veering away from
that narrative and hopefully that will not be a common
stat in the future.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
I agree, But isn't it wild? It's also kind of like,
I guess this is another left field part of the conversation,
just even the way that you know, hear it, she's
on the money. We create content is illustrated in the media,
like anytime anything happens Victoria divine and it's always fluffy,
and it's always like her and hergem.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You already have girls.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
But like if somebody who was male did the same
stuff that we did, it would be looked at very,
very differently somehow. Because I am a female who cares
about her nails and her hair and wants to have,
you know, rainbow technic color nails, and I want to
get my eyelash extensions and I really enjoy those things.
That means that I'm probably not as good at money
or finance as you are, right, Like, there's just this
(16:27):
inherent underlying idea that I am not going to be
as good at that. And it's wild when I meet
people in the wild. It's wild when I meet people
and they're like, oh, what do you do? Go, I've
got a podcast and they go, cute, what's your real job?
I go, okay, cool, like I also own a mortgage
broken company.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
They're like, oh, really, do you just work from home?
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Like it's always undermined, it's always underplayed because there's this
stereotype that I don't fit of somebody who might own
a successful finance company.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, that's a real shame.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
I don't even care, Like I could not care less.
It's actually comical, Like, I know sometimes I work from home,
but my team they work from an office. Yeah, and
they kind of like bat their eyes and they're like,
what a team.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
It doesn't have a compute what.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
It's my favorite thing in the entire world. But I
just think that gender stereotypes are obviously this massive source
of anxiety, and they shouldn't be because we're not less
than Ye've just been fed to this patriarchal idea that
women shouldn't be good at things, when in reality, we
know that women are better investors than men. There is
so much research out there to say that if we
(17:35):
just divide the genders and look at who's a better investor,
women are because we take more time, more energy to
understand the circumstances, we are less likely to be responsive.
We're more likely to think about the circumstances. Sure makes
us better at investing.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
I like, that's a strong statement, and I'm going to
agree with having absolutely no knowledge on that way.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
But women are more likely to tell themselves that they're
not good at it because they don't know anything about it.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
They're not smart enough.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
That is a real shame, and it's fake, fake news,
fake news.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
Everyone. We're canceling it because you're a really smart girl
and I believe in you.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
But essentially all of these things that we're talking about
today are linked to your story and a linked to
the narrative that you tell yourself as an adult, and
they actually don't reflect your ability at all. You could
actually be amazing at maths and you're thinking about this
going oh wow, that's another part of my life, Like
I'm not so good at comprehension, or I'm not good
at making friends, or I'm not good at whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It is. Like, you can be if you want to be.
I love that you can if you want to be.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
How do we address it?
Speaker 5 (18:38):
It's not a life sentence like you stuck with maths
anxiety forever. To be honest, I really think it's about
education because most of the time we feel anxious about something,
or we're scared about something, or we don't want to
engage in something, or we're just a little bit apprehensive
because we don't know enough about the circumstance. Right, Like
I get social anxiety, and a lot of the time,
(19:00):
thing that alleviates that social anxiety is if I get
told who's going to be there where it is, I'm
far less anxious if I'm going somewhere I've already been
because you already know the circumstances. And basically that's education, right,
So like education makes me feel more comfortable. Same with maths.
You usually are going to feel overwhelmed or anxious about
something if you don't have enough information about that. But
(19:22):
if I set you down and gave you all the
information that you needed. I'm not saying the maths anxiety
is going anywhere, but I promise it will be much
less because you feel a bit more empowered in that circumstance.
So I guess the first step is to challenge your
personal beliefs about yourself and durabilities and maybe ask yourself
what are you good at? And I promise there are
going to be things like, there's so much to this
(19:43):
where I know that if you are anxious or you
don't have enough confidence, you just go, oh, I don't
want to have too many tickets on myself. Well that's
really lame. But honestly, having a low opinion of yourself
it's not modest, it's not sexy. It's actually self destruction.
And I think so many times we try to be
modest and go oh, like I don't want to you know,
look like I'm pumping up my own tires. Why it's
(20:07):
destructive to pretend you're not as good at things as
you are. I mean, there's obviously the flip side of that,
where you have a God complex and you think you're
amazing at absolutely everything, and like watching those train wrecks
of the auditions on Australian Idol, which are one of
my favorite things in the entire world.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
You're just like, ah, that's a lot thank God for
God complex.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Yes, sometimes yeah, thank God because it provides me with
a lot of entertainment. But at the end of the day,
you saying what you're good at is actually just really
constructive and really helpful and helps you leverage into other
parts of your life. You might be really good at conversations.
You might be really good at one or another thing,
and like that's not a bad thing to say, Oh
(20:47):
I'm not good at that, or I am good at that.
It's actually a really good thing to just be real
with yourself, because we can't learn and grow if we
don't know where we're learning and growing from. So take,
for example, like sport or writing. How do you react
when you make a mistake doing something that you're really
confident with? You go, oh my god, whatever, that doesn't
make sense. If you're really good at sport, beck and
(21:08):
you like, you know, we're playing tennis and you're really
really good at tennis and you miss a swing, you're
probably just gonna shrug it off and try again, right,
because you're actually really good at that thing. But if
you were just learning tennis for the very first time
and you miss a swing, you'd be like, I can't
do this.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I suck.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
This isn't good, Like I'm the worst at this, I'm
no good, you haven't had enough practice, and like that's
basically it. But when you make a mistake with maths,
maybe you really punish yourself with negative affirmations or panic right,
of course.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I got it wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I'm so bad at this. Is that helpful for anybody involved?
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, And you kind of think like I mustn't have
the brain for this, but I'm sure you do exactly.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
And there's this psychological concept called reframing and I learned
a lot about it when I was studying, but you
can google it reframing and like lots of examples about
reframing to help you. But essentially, instead of saying something like, oh,
I'm not a maths person or I'm just really bad
the money, you could say, oh, just experiencing some math
anxiety is just making me feel a little bit overwhelmed,
(22:05):
Like that's a much better situation to be. And maybe
practicing some math skills in a fun I don't know
if it can be fun. It's fun for me, but
maybe just like no stress environment is probably better. Like
have you done saduku or noodle or I that could
be really fun to get you back into numbers and
then slowly start to do things. I think that there's
(22:27):
this misconception that you need to dive right in and
take every single step. If budgeting or looking at your
money situation is a bit overwhelming, back do you know
what my advice.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Is, don't do it? Don't do it.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
How about we just put that to the side. How
about we start with just looking at your pay slip.
How much money comes into your bank account each week?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Did you know that?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Do we tell you? No? I want to tell me
that if you know that number, you're in a better
position than you were yesterday when you didn't know the
exact amount.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
And maybe that's all we do today. That's fine.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Maybe tomorrow wee can talk about how much you're spending
on your groceries.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Do you know?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Maybe you don't. Maybe we can work that out. Yeah,
maybe we can have a look at what your groceries
look like each and every single week, and you go,
cheese vie. I didn't even know it was that much.
Oh beg, Is there anything you want to change in that?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Yeah, I just need to maybe cut back on how
many cheesecakes I'm buying or something.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
I do a cheesecake and you do.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
But it's one of those things that I think you
don't need to go boots and all into this. Just
take it slowly, because the slower you take it, the
more it's actually going to absorb. Yep, that's why we
don't do anything in intensives. At UNI, I got offered
to do intensive subjects, like you know where they like
take an entire semester, like twelve weeks of content, and
(23:41):
they like pump it into you in four days. So
I did that to get rid of like two subjects
that I really wanted to get rid of. And I
was like, sweet, I'll just do this over the Christmas break.
I'll sign up for two intensives. Could not tell you
what I learned. Couldn't because you know what, I crammed
all that information so I could do the test. At
the end of the day, take it off, go home,
have probably three glasses of wine. Go back the next day,
(24:04):
do the same thing. All right, you know, do my
little group project that we did over four days, submit that,
Breathe a sigh of relief, wait for my result, and
go oh.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Far out glad that's over.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
What did I learn?
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Literally nothing, because I didn't absorb anything, which is why
we need to do it in small chunks over a
long period of time, with things that matter to you,
not with things that don't matter to you. If you're
just starting your budgeting journey or just starting your money journey.
Why are we talking about compound interests? Victoria does think
as a real sexy But is that the best place
to start, right? How do we just start with the
(24:36):
small things? Because the small things are the foundation of
financial literacy. And if we can create a really solid foundation,
if you like, you know, wiggle at the top or
you're like swaying and you're not sure, you're not going
to fall very far because the foundations are really solid.
So I think that we just need to take small
steps and little steps and make sure that the system
works for you. So like automatic payments might work for
(24:58):
you for other people, they might not work for some people.
Having a really good budget spreadsheet like the one in
our Budget and cash Flow master class that I do,
makes a lot of sense for other people, They're like,
I don't want that. I just want an app that
does everything for me. Educate yourself, Listen to Sheese on
the Money, Go into our Facebook. It's the most supportive
place in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
It makes my heart.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Seeing every single day ask questions and normalize this discussion
because to me, it is so important to be having
money conversations because when I talk about money, it puts
you and my friends in a better position, and then
when you talk about money, it kind of spreads. Yep.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
It's like do you remember like the phone Trees when
you were.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Younger, Phone Tree?
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Yeah, they had it on Legally Blonde, where like I
call three people and then those three people three people, Like,
that's what.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
We're going to do with financial literacy.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
When you do a legally Blonde flone tree.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Let's try it. Let's churn out to themselves.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think we're done.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I think it's a really good place to leave it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I think so do.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Legally Blond's a very good movie. Go and listen to it.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Go and listen to it, and watch it.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I'm such a podcast and you can.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Listen to it if you want to go.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
All right, have a good day. Loved me on Friday.
Bye bye.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards
(26:28):
your needs. Victoria divine and she's on the money. Are
authorized representatives of money Sherpa pty Ltd ABN three two
one six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL
four five one two eight nine
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