October 26, 2025 • 51 mins
They say you end up with someone like your dad... and for this week’s diarist, that was the problem. Her dad was reckless with money, and years later, she married someone just like him. While she worked and saved, he spent, quit jobs on a whim, and left her holding the financial bag. At 30, she’d had enough. She packed two suitcases, took her last $12K, and started again. . Now building wealth on her own terms (complete with a partner who actually gets it) and even using debt recycling to make her mortgage work harder. This ep is proof that starting again doesn't equal failure... it’s a power move.
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Acknowledgement of Country By Nartarsha Bamblett aka Queen Acknowledgements.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name's Aatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations woman
and I'm here to acknowledge country t Glenn Young Ganya, Niana,
Kaka yah y and beIN Ahaka Nian our gay In Nimbina,
yakarum jar Dominyama, Doma Itawakaman damon Imlan Bomber bang Gadabomba
in and now in wakah ghana on yak rum jar Watnadaa. Hello,
(00:22):
beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
We thank acknowledge and respect the Aberiginal people's land that
we're gathering on today. Take pleasure in all the land
and respect all that you see. She's on the Money
podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools,
knowledge and resources for you to thrive.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
She's on the Money.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that lets you be pervy about other people's money circumstances
for educational purposes, of course. Welcome back to another one
of our money daries where I get the absolute pleasure
to sit down and talk with one of our incredible
She's on the Money community members all about their journey.
Let's jump straight into it, because this week I got
(01:27):
a message and it sounded exactly like this. Hi, she's
on the money. I have a money story that shows
that life really doesn't move in a straight line. My
story is all about growing up in a household with
a pretty toxic dad, but ending up repeating the exact
same cycle with my first spoiler alert husband. It's also
about moving to the other side of the world on
(01:49):
a total whim and starting again from scratch financially, not once,
but twice at twenty five and then again at thirty
years old. All of that now to be in an
amazing relationship with someone who is on exactly the same
page as me, but also navigating what it's like to
start big joint financial goals when you come with such
(02:09):
big baggage of people taking advantage of you in the past.
I am very excited for this money diary. Welcome to
the show Money Diarist. Hi, I just feel like I've
got so many questions like toxic dad, okay, toxic husband,
oh goosey, Like then you've moved across the world, not
once but twice, Like girl, that sounds expensive. I just
(02:32):
have lots of questions.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Yeah, yeah, like, and I'm glad that you're like, hey girl,
I'm so willing to share this with the community. Before
we get there, though, If I asked you to rate
your money habits on a scale from A three to
F what would you rate them?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I think at this stage I would probably give myself
a minus.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Okay, I love this, I love this. I have some
questions about it doesn't seem like it would take much
to get to an A plus. What would that look like?
But let's that for the end of the show, my friend,
let's dive further in. I want to know, tell me
more about growing up in a household where you had
a pretty toxic data less go from there.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yes, so obviously it's something that maybe didn't pack me
growing up, but that I reflected upon afterwards, realizing you
know the truth behind it, especially when it comes to
money story. We didn't talk much about money growing up,
which you know is not the healthiest in itself.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
It's also really common, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Very common, and I think so. I'm French, and especially
in France still now, money is very taboo. It's not
something that people openly discuss, so I knew that my
mom was the bread winner. Mom had quite a good
job and was making a decent amount of money. Dad
not so much. She was a government employee, but probably
(03:47):
more on the lower side of the wages. And what
was happening is that my mom would try to save
and save and save, and then my dad would go
and spend and spend and.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Spend so and she was working so hard.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, she was working so hard, like crazy hours. And
in hindsight, it breaks my heart to realize what was happening.
And you know, obviously, as I said, growing up, I
didn't really realize. And then my dad was so very
good at taking advantage of that. It would do the
same with his mom, just show up at my grandma's,
bought a credit card, and just spend very good at
(04:21):
spending other people's money. In hindsight, there's definitely some things
going there. There's definitely some diagnosed ADHD on my dad,
because I am diagnosed myself.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, yeah, the apple never falls that far from the tree.
I don't want to hear that though, do they.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
No, absolutely not. But there's definitely some impulse spending. It
would change cars every six months and buy a new
car all the time and constantly spending on things. So
it's only talking to my mom later on that she
told me that, you know, like even though she wasn't
a good income, our account would be in the red
at the end of each months because like in France
(04:57):
you can go under it. We don't have the same
credit card system, so you have a debit carbage can
spend more that's on your account, like yeah, and so yeah,
she told me that. Yeah, she often spent time negotiating
with the banks and all those kind of things, even
though the money was there. My dad was just quicker
at spending in that we were earning it.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
No, especially if she's working so hard and then trying
to bring new guys up. It would have been like
having a thirty responsible child.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Oh, I think worse than that, really, it's yeah, yeah,
So my parents separated when I was in my early twenties,
which was hard, but once again I think I wish
it had happened earlier. I think for my mom's sake,
I wish she would have found that piece earlier. But
so they separated. That was about I think twenty two,
and it was right at the time when I met
(05:45):
the person who would become my husband, well my first husband,
so that relationship was also not the healthiest and I
ended up. You know what they say, we like sometimes
they say, you marry your dad. That's roughly what happened.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
It's great advice if you have a fantastic dad, Like
great advice, terrible advice if your dad was irresponsible. But
it's funny because it's very true. And in like the
world of psychology, you can like look at a lot
of people who talk about it, and it's because you
find that familiar and you go, well, oh, that feels safe,
and that's very familiar, and I'm comfortable with that. Like
(06:23):
there's no real surprises. It's not what you deserve. It
is not what you deserve. But from a psychological perspective,
like that person would have immediately felt very familiar, very comfortable,
Like you could predict their behaviors right because you knew
what that looked like and you know what that feels like.
That feels like love.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So he was not good.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Oh no, not safe, but like mentally you feel safe
because you know what you can predict, and humans inherently
love being able to predict what's going to happen next.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That's interesting. Yeah, that explains a lot. That makes a
lot of sense to me.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
It's not fun though, like like you probably had to
come toious some very hard conclude maybe that's not great,
and it sounds like you have Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So it was also very very good at spending. So
I was not making a great amount of money. I
was in my first job, so I was making like
not much more above minimum wage, but still trying to save.
I've always been a very very good saver, definitely getting
that from my mom growing up and putting the pile
of money and counting my money and a bit of
that behavior. Very much discusting mindset there, and so I
(07:26):
would try to say, but once again, it would be
very good at spending and very good at convincing me
that we needed things that we didn't. Yeah. Yes, so
that didn't help because I didn't want to part with
my money, but also very probably a bit naive and
gold a ball there.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
You were just doing what felt right at the time.
Like I think sometimes we crucify ourselves and you go, oh,
so naive, are so silly, like I shouldn't have done it,
And of course, in hindsight because you're now more educated,
but at the time, you're like, I really like this
person and he probably cares about me in the same
way that I do about him, and that that's the case.
It wasn't, but like you just can't see through it, No.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And getting the dopamine hit from the purchase, which you
once again giving a dopamine hit to an ADHD person.
It's not a good idea, how.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
School, isn't it. No, I get it, I really get it.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So Yeah, when we decided to get married, for example,
we decided to create a joint account to put the
money for the wedding there to try and save. So
until then we had everything separate. So the first time
we created a joint account, and the deal was every month,
let's try and put a couple of hundred each onto
that account and try and save. We had planned to
get married about two years later, so we had plenty
(08:36):
of time to see it coming. I was putting the
money every month. I don't think he ever did. I
don't think there's one month where he put the money
in because he didn't have the money, or he would
quit his job on a whim and so there would
be no money and I would have to pay for it.
Like all of those things. So once again I was
bearing that burden. And then one day I was looking
(08:57):
for a job, and actually I was not even look
looking for a job. I was just googling some competitors
to my current employer, and one of them ended up
being in Australia, and I was like, ooh, Australia sounds good,
and oh, they're looking for someone that does the same
job that what I'm doing, so let's just apply. Just see,
I had never thought about going to Australia at that point.
It was just a complete whim and I applied and
(09:20):
I got the job, and a month later we decided
to move to the other side of the world. And
my fancy at the time was unemployed, so that was
easy for him to follow me. And that was about
four months before our wedding in France. So well, like,
that's fine, we'll move to Australia. We'll moved to Australia.
We'll use that as a test period, go back to
(09:41):
friends for the wedding, and if we didn't like the experience,
we'll just stay in France after that.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
And just like the experience, it sounds like you've got
your head screwed on. You're a smart girl. I like it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It was a good test and a good way to
deal with the stress of moving to the other side
of the world in the space of a month. So
we moved, and you know, with all of that comespain
for flights and paying for visa and paying full of
the things, and obviously getting a new accommodation and rents.
Even though you know, eleven years ago, rent wasn't as
(10:09):
crazy as it is today, it was still an.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Expense, but it was crazy because your income was probably less.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, and by buying a car because we didn't have
a carr in friends cause lived in big city. But
obviously moving to Australia it was a different story. So
we basically arrived in Australia and had not a dollar
left to our name. After that, we had, like until
my first income came through my first monthly pay, we
had pretty much nothing. We were starting from zero and
(10:35):
we had a wedding four months later, so there was
that too, So that was you know, that was a
bit stressful. But it's interesting coming to Australia from another country.
I felt like the richest person on the earth and
my income was probably it was the minimum for my
visa for something like fifty five K a year at
the time, and I felt like the absolute richest person
(10:56):
in the world. It was amazing. So obviously my husband
also like the richest person in the world, and we
know what happens in that situation. He would just once
again spend and be very quick at getting rid of
a job just because something was bothering him in it.
I'm not really putting himself towards our big money goals.
(11:16):
So that was a lot and that pattern kept on going.
So we were married for about four years to all,
and that just kept on going. Each time you would
get a new job or I would get some sort
of race at my work, it would be like, oh,
that's amazing with that amount, Like we had the budgets,
preach it, we had everything sorted, and it would put
it in and be like, look, with that amount, we
were going to be able to save this amount, to
(11:38):
save this amount, And at first I was like excited
as well, but after a couple of times, I'd be like, yeah, great,
I know that's not going to happen because you say that,
but I know this is just going to get spent
because that's what always always happens. So that became quite
stressful and very frustrating as well to just not being
able to reach any goals because all the money would
just go into things.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Really, I'm sorry that feels so stressful, and I feel
like coming to that conclusion is really hard as well,
because you go, hold on, hold on, hold on, like
this isn't what you said it was going to be.
It's not and that can be really upsetting.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, it was, and I think that's when I reached thirty.
When I turned thirty, I had that big life crisis
where I just realized I was like, is this what
I want my life to be? And the answer was not,
this is just not what I want for myself. I
can't keep going. I don't know. I had this realization
(12:34):
that you only have one life and there's no do over,
there's no you know, I can try something else at
the end of the day. Once it's done, it's done.
So I just make the big and really really hard
decision to leave that marriage, which at the time was
it was just so hard. I still can't understand how
(12:55):
I did it, but it is to this day the
best decision I've made for myself.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
And like, there's going to be a lot of people
listening to this who might be feeling similar, right, Like,
how you came to that conclusion? Right? So you had
probably had some talks with yourself and some three am
thoughts and not being able to sleep, and you're working
out what you're going to do, So you come to
this conclusion, right, I'm going to leave. But how did
you start facilitating that? Did you start a conversation? Like
(13:23):
did you move out immediately? Like what did that actually
look like? Because I think that that's the part that
so many of us are so scared of.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It is it is incredibly hard, especially when we're with
someone that is that is manipulative. It is really really hard.
And I was at the point where I was having
several panic attacks a day, and one of my friends
who had been through a similar situation, told me, your
body will tell you at some point, will tell you
to leave because you just won't have a choice anymore.
(13:51):
And that's that's the point I reached. It. It was
like my body telling me you have to do it now,
Like it's we can't keep going. So I just walked
up at home once and I sat down and I
remember I started crying. It was like what's happening. And
I just told him that it's done, it's over, and
that's it. And then there was a lot of emotional
manpulation and threats and all that that came into it,
(14:14):
and I almost backed off a few times, but each
time I was like, oh, maybe maybe I can't believe
my body would go into panic attack and telling me no, no, no, no, no,
you've started this.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No no, no, no, you're leaving. You're leaving by the way.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
We're doing it, girl, that is happening.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Who knew? Like, but I just decided I didn't money.
It was all too hard and your body's like a A,
we didn't come this far or only come this far.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
That is exactly it. So I was extremely lucky. First,
I had a colleague who had a spare room and
she's like, girl, come and stay at mine for a
week and just you know, so that you can get
that space. So I moved out and moved in with
her in her spare room for about a week. And
I was also in a job that was wonderful with
(14:59):
men that were wonderful, and I went to talk to
my boss and say, hey, this is what's happening. I
feel like I need the space. Can I go to
friends in my family for a couple of weeks and
I'll work from there. And they're like, yeah, that's fine,
just take the time. And also we've got an office
in London, so you know what, just take three weeks,
spend one week in London as well in the office there.
Two weeks is not enough, you need three. Just just go.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
They were just wonderful, Oh what icons.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And so I did that. I went away for three weeks.
That allowed me to put the space that was very
much needed because if I had stayed in Australia, you know,
in the same city, in the same neighboring suburbs, that
would probably have been much much harder to put that
distance between us. And when I was obviously as also
started looking for flats to move in for housemates and
(15:46):
found someone and I think I arrived back in Australia
on the Saturday, and on Sunday morning, I moved out
and moved in with housemates.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So it went quick. Yeah wow, logistically, but that was
very needed because I don't think I would have been
able to stay nearby that the manipulation would have been
just too intense and too hard.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Yeah, but I'm really glad that you're able to identify that,
because so many people don't. They go, oh, well, you know,
maybe this is the next step, right, like maybe just
a little bit of distance will do us good. No, no, no, no,
run run for the hills.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
That's it. Once you made the decision, you just have
to stick to it because it gets even the harder
and harder to just try again. And you know, so
it was good, but then I was just I think
I was in hindsight once again, I was just very nice,
maybe too nice, because like, oh well, I left, so
he stuck with paying the rent for the place. It
(16:41):
was my decision, So I kept paying half the rent
for about six months until I least ran out. So
I was paying for my share of my you know,
with my housemaid. I was paying for my room, and
I was giving in the money for about half of
his rent. He could have found a housemates himself. There
were many multiple rooms in that house. He had many options.
But I, once again I think I was not fully
(17:02):
out of his grasp there and I still was doing
this and helping, which, yeah, in hindsight, I'm like, why
did I do that?
Speaker 4 (17:11):
But what a nice person that says you are not
because you were kind, And you know what, I would
love to be accused of being kind consistently like you
did it because you felt at the time that that
was the best thing to do. Did he deserve it?
Absolutely not. But it's a reflection of your values, not his.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
No, I think, yeah, it's true, Like at least I
can look myself in the mirror and say I've done
the right thing, not necessarily by myself but by him.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Absolutely you have. So you move out in Australia on
your own, what does life look like then.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, so financially that's the same on time, I started
from scratch because we separated. We had some money aside,
but I took that because I had to buy a
car for myself to you just move around. That just
needed the car. So basically the only share of the
saving that we had went into that car. It was
something like, I don't know, twelve thousand dollars. It was
(18:04):
not a crazy, crazy amount. And then I left him
with everything, like all of our things, everything that was
material stayed with him, so he kept all of that
and I had two three strait cases and I bought
my car and that was all I had, all I
had to my name at that point, which was a
bit scary, but at the same time that was very
(18:24):
much the fresh start that I needed. I was, for
the first time with a job that I liked, with
an income that was quite good. If I remember, I
was at the time on something like a maybe like
a ninety k something like that.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Oh, okay, so you'd gone up from that fifty five k.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, So I was earning a good amount of money
and I had a reasonable amount of expense, and for
the first time in my life, I didn't have anyone
that would come and touch that money. It was mine
and it was mine to take control of, and that
was just the best feeling. I started by reading The
Barefoot Investor and you know, there's a first step.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yep, great start, and.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Looked at you all his money, and put my budgets
together and put my different accounts and all of that,
and it just felt so liberating to be in control
and to do all of that by myself.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Oh, I'm so glad.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It wasn't scary at all, even though I had like
very little to my name. It was the best feeling.
And I was like, I can finally save and spend
for what my values are.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Well, yeah, because even if you had little, it was
all yours. No one was going to spend it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yes, absolutely, that was really really good. And I was like, okay,
so now you know, I said, alone in Australia, I
had friends because I had been there for by then
about yea four and a half years, so I knew people.
I had some friends, I had my housemates and I'm
still very good friends with now. And it was like
(19:53):
life was good and it's interesting. People at work even
told me, like, you're standing straighter then you used to.
It's you're like a different person. It's just that whole
weight that had been lifted from my shoulder on all fronts.
That was the best feeling. I adore that. I'm so
happy that you got to experience that. But isn't it
crazy that not only mental change, but the physical change
(20:16):
people experience when they just aren't weighed down by the
wrong people, Like it's crazy. I don't think you realize
when you're in the thick of it. It's only when
you come out on the other side and you look
back and you're like, oh my god, oh my.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
God, what was I doing? But like, good on you.
I love this, so I know that you're now married again.
What happened after that? Like you, we got back into
dating and.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Then so only two months after my separation, I met
that guy on an APP and it was also fresh
out of a marriage. So what that meant is we
were both quite keen on not going too serious too
early on and just taking our time. A few months
later when we decided to get see, we were very
(21:01):
clear on our expectations. Communication was big, and we were
very clear on Okay, if we're going to do this,
and we're going to do it for real, this is
what I'm expecting from a relationship. I want you know,
family is a big value. We want to be on
the same page financially, you want to be on the
same page on all aspects. We were very clear on
what we were ready or not ready to tolerate. I
(21:22):
think that was the greatest thing, Like it's it helped
us so much not repeating other mystics.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
I'm obsessed. You deserve all of that. How soon after
you got out of that relationship did you get really
serious with this new guy?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
About six months? So it did go much quicker than
I expected it to be, and It's also about the
time that he decided to move into state, So like, okay, great,
now that we're attached and you're moving into state, what's
going to look like for us. Luckily, my job at
the time had an office in that other state, so
I ended up commuting quite a bit, doing two weeks
(21:58):
in one office one week and another off, and just
flying quite a lot for about six months while we
were testing out of the relationship. And then I moved
in with him six months after that. So I had
been out of my previous marriage for about a year
when we moved in together.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
When you know, you know, I just I love love.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Absolutely, but we were still very careful with everything, finances,
dividing everything and both keeping i'd say our money quite
close to our chests, both being a bit you know,
scarred with our previous experiences.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Oh absolutely, And I think that you do have to
protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, it took us quite a while to just get
to that stage of trust and still do this day.
We're now, you know, we're married, we've got two kids,
we've got a house, and we still don't share finances. Fully,
It's crazy, but it's just how it is.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I kind of love that though, like I'm you're just
protecting yourselves.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yes, always, And we had like lots of discussions though,
And we moved together in Journe twenty nineteen, so about,
you know, six months before COVID hit, which was also
a big test on the relationship. When you've been living
together for six months and then you end up stuck
in an apartment just the two of you for a
(23:13):
few months at a time.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
I yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And that's also when we decided that we would move
back to Brisbane where we're from and at some point
and we would want to buy a house, so we
decided to buy interstate in COVID. So obviously we could
not fly to Brisbane because the borders where constantly goes
so interesting. Fight we actually bought our house after only
(23:36):
seeing it on FaceTime stop here. We couldn't fly, so
we just sent his family. We sent his moms and
his sisters to inspection with us and they would FaceTime
for us and tell us what they thought. Then that
is how we chose our house and that's how we
bought it. So when we bought the planes, we had
never seen it, just yeah FaceTime and having to trust
family members to make the right choice for us.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
And what happened when you turned up at the house,
were you like, oh my god, this is is not
what I expected.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It was good. So we rented it for six months
before we were able to move back, and the goal
was always to either do a renovation or knockdown rebuilds.
So we're like, worst case scenario. If it's really bad,
we'll just start the reno process earlier rather than later.
But something that's interesting as well. So when we bought
the house, we did put the same amount each in
the deposits. So I had been out of marriage for
(24:24):
two years, I had started from scrash two years before,
and by that point I had saved over fifty thousand
dollars by myself.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Stop it by yourself, by myself. I'm so proud of
you all my money. Yeah, yeah get it, queen.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I love this. That was a big achievement. Yeah. Reflecting
on that and that really taught me as well, what
I can achieve when you know I don't have someone
leitching on me. Basically, when I have that control and
when I can do what I want to. Yeah, I
was crazy. And I also had started investing. I had
studying ETF. So originally I was investing on the raise.
(24:59):
I think started pretty much the moment I left my
marriage because we were doing that with my ex husband.
We were on the race when it was still called
Acorn back in the very early days.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I was on there then too.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, and then twenty nineteen is also when I started
listening to She's on the Money. I actually went to
an event in October twenty nineteen, so very very early days.
Stop it.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Oh please, don't talk about it. That would have been
so embarrassing. I would have been such a baby.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It was great, it was great. It was a free
event in Sydney, and yeah I loved it.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Oh yeah, and I did those cute goodie bags and
the notebooks.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yes, and so yeah it really helped me, I think,
put that structure as well round my budget, and that's
when I got into ETFs and all those kind of things.
So not only did I save that money, I had
started investing as well back on the side, So I
was really proud of that achievement. And yeah, we moved
into our house and then decided to do a knockgowner rebuilt.
(25:57):
And also an interesting fact there, we did not actually
knocked down the house. We had a better plan financially,
which was sell the house, not the land, just the house.
So we use one of those relocations company that come
and you know, put your house on the truck and
take your house away. So instead of paying for demolition,
you're actually getting paid for the house.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
So they bought your house literally, but you just kept
the land. You were like, you can have the house,
but you can't keep it here out exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
They just moved our house into another location. Some people bought.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
It, and yeah, wow, that is very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
So that was also a big, big saving something I'd
definitely recommend to people doing them rebuilt have a talk
to these companies, because we probably would have paid something
like thirty thousand dollars for the demolition, removing the asbestos
and all that, and we ended up getting paid instead,
so that's quite a good deal.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I love this. I love this so much, very very savy.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think as well as well. Being with my husband
was also very financially focused as being a big difference
because we're on exactly the same page. We took very
openly about money, and I want my kids to grow
up having those conversations around the house as well hearing
us talk about money and all those kind of things
to not repeat what I've been through where money was
very much taboo in the house. So we have those
(27:10):
big goals and now we've got the two kids. Going
on to Matt leave was very very hard for me
because I only had the central link amount of money,
not company paid leave, and having to rely on someone
not being in control and not having my own income,
not being able to contribute to the household that I
(27:31):
usually do, having to let go that was incredibly hard
on me. Even though my husband is amazing and absolutely
was compensating my income is income and paying for that
and it was never even a question for him, It's
still very very hard to let go. I still have
that mentality when I'm scared of not having enough money
(27:54):
to contribute and I don't want to be dependent on
someone like That's something that I I'm really struggling with.
So yeah, we've got but we do have the two
kids now, and we are paying down mortgage and we
actually debt recycling for the mortgage, so we're investing through
the debt recycling, So yeah, we were previously. We each
(28:16):
have our own investing accounts, so we were putting all
that money separately, but now we've decided to join that
together and put the money into the debt recycling instead.
So the way it works is that we paid some
money into our mortgage and then we basically split the
mortgage into the normal mortgage and an investment loan, and
(28:37):
that investment loan is then what is used to invest
into the share market. So it's something that we consider
for a while before actually pulling the trigger, and it's
not something that we did by ourself. We had a
chat with our financial advisor, we had a chat with
our mortgage broker, we had a chat with our accountants,
we had the whole team just to make sure it's
done right because it does come with some risk, especially
(28:59):
if you don't do it properly. So I'd say it's
a great thing for people who have a mortgage but
still want to invest and want to do it, but
you need to do it right. Then make sure you
talk to the right people to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Absolutely, And I think that that's something that we get
a lot of questions in our community. People ask should
I do it? Like is it going to work for me?
And it's one of those things where It's like debt
recycling can be a fantastic strategy if you've got the
right team around you and you've got the right advice,
but if you didn't, it can actually be a really
terrible thing for you because it obviously involves a significant
(29:32):
amount of money. And like going back and forth, it
sounds like you've nailed it, and I think that maybe
at some point soon I should do an episode on
dat recycling because of the amount of questions we get,
because it can be scary too, Like if the market
goes down and then you get a margin call, like
oh my goodness, Like that can be so stressful.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
It basically relies on the market growing more than one
your interest is so if you've got a six percent
interest rate, you need the market to go up by
more than six percent every year that you're losing money,
and that can be quite imaging. So you need to
be okay with that as.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Well, exactly, And I'll talk about that in a hot second.
I just have so many questions, and I just I
love that you've got two kids and you found your
dream life and your partner. And I know you said
that you were still struggling with like you know, letting
go a little bit, but that feels fair and reasonable.
Tell me, what do you and your partner do? Now? Like,
how much money are you earning?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So we're we're on solid amount of money. So I
earn one hundred and forty thousand dollars a year. That's
through my full time job, but I also freelance on
the side. Same with that amount of money. I don't
need the freelance, but that's another thing that I struggle
to let go off. I was like, there's this money
there and I cannot say no if people ask me
to do some work. So that brings in probably another
(30:48):
twenty to thirty K a year just for the freelance.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Oh okay, So what type of freelancing are you doing?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Marketing, consulting.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yeah, very cool, very cool.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So I'm I work in marketing in my full time
role and then I also do that. So I've been
doing that since COVID pretty much, and I have some
clients that I've been with me since those days. I
did do it full time for a while, but then
I just missed the human connection. I just missed working
with people. So now I've decided to just keep it
on the side and keep the freelance. I still have
(31:17):
some projects here and there, and I think it also
allows my brain to keep ticking and just thinks of
new ideas, So I do enjoy that, but it's yeah,
I think I would struggle just saying no to that
money that's twenty thirty thousand years can make a big
difference on the mortgage, so it's hard to just say
no to that exactly.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
And also earlier you mentioned that you have ADHD, like
we just don't stop. We've just got stuff to do
with busy, busy people, and if you have free time,
you're always like concocting another plan. So I think this
is very good for you absolutely. And what does your
partner do and work in hr very cool? And what
type of income does he have?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Roughly just on its paid income is about two hundred.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Yeah, very cool, So you've got a really nice income,
which makes sense. And I wanted to know both of
your incomes because you mentioned that you were debt recycling
and like, there is no way when I was a
financial advisor that I would let a couple even think
about dat recycling if they didn't have a duel income
of more than two hundred thousand dollars together, like it
just it wouldn't become an option because it's just there's
(32:19):
too much risk involved. And that's why I was like, oh,
I want to know, Like, I've just got so many questions.
Tell me, you've got their family, You've got some big
financial goals. What are they? What are we currently working towards.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
The moment is about paying down that mortgage. It will
become much easier once all the sun starts cooled and
by the year time. Because they care costs, they're just
I think that's one of the things that people don't
talk to as much. They like, sure, we are on
a very solid amount of money. Don't get me wrong,
I'm very happy with that, but I mean their care
cost us about eight hundred bucks a week.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It is rude at this point. It is just rude.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yeah, And like I don't want people to think I'm complaining.
It is a privilege to be able to pay for it.
It is a privilege to go back to work. All
of that stuff great, fantastic, but when you start sending
your kid to daycare, irrespective of what you get back,
you have to have that amount of money in your
account to go out of your account to then have
a refund happen, and that's just a lot of money
(33:17):
going back and forth. It is expensive, Like I don't
know what you're paying per day, but we at the
moment are paying like two hundred ish dollars a day
for daycare, and Harvey's in daycare two days a week,
which is four hundred dollars a week. And yes, it
is in our budget, but that's a significant amount of
money that I look at and go, oh my god,
I could be investing that for his future, Like what
(33:37):
is going on here and you'll be double Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Pay about it's about eight hundred dollar a week after
the rebate.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Yeah, but your kids would be in daycare full time too,
so that would be so expensive.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yes, they're in full time.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, it's a lot of money coming out. So I
think the one of the big financial goal is just
wait for the kids to be in school. That's definitely
going to help, But it's all about paying down the
mortgage for us. That's a priority. We would love to
be able to retire early, maybe you know, at around
fifty would be ideal, so that we're still young and
so well. Can enjoy time with the kids and all
(34:14):
of that's. Yeah, I think all of our focus at
the moment is on paying down the mortgage. Really, I
love this.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
It feels like you're super clear on what you're going
to achieve. Have you always been this clear on your
money goals? Or do you think that having engaged a
financial advisor and spoken to mortgage brokers and doing debt recycling, like,
do you think that that has made you clearer?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Like?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
How do we get this clarity that you've got.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I've always been a saver. Definitely still have that scarcity mindset,
and I think that's yeah, it's probably one thing I
need to work on. So I've always been a very
good saver. I wasn't always saving for something. Sometimes it
was just about having that money on the side just
in case something happens. And I still have a bit
of that. Like I've had quite a few health issues recently,
(34:58):
and I am so grateful that I had that money
aside and I could afford to pay for that, and
I could afford to pay for the psychiatrists for an
ADHD diagnosis. That's going to help me all of those
kind of things. So I'm glad I have that, but
in terms of the money goals, yeah, no, I don't
think I was clear. I think it's also very much
about being with my husband, and you know, I think
(35:20):
he probably he grew up in a very different type
of household where money was a bit more talked about
and he was much clear on his goals and he's
been able to bring me onto that journey with him.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah, and that's really beautiful. As well as being like,
oh my god, yes, you deserve all of these and more.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
It's definitely been the best. I think There's been discussions about,
you know, your choosing your partner is the biggest financial
decision that you make, but if I look at my
path and where I'm now, for me, it's definitely been
the one that's had the biggest impact bossing negative and
impositive in my life. In terms of my financial partner.
I love it.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Let's go to a really quick break because on the
flip side, I want to talk more about your investing.
I need to know how your debt recycling, not just
that you're doing it. I want the needy gritty. I
also want to know about your debts, and I want
to know your best and worst money habits. So guys,
don't go anywhere money dice. We are back, and oh,
(36:15):
can we just dive straight back into this debt recycling conversation.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Talk to me about your.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Portfolio structure because we know you're investing, we know you're
using debt recycling to invest, but what does that mean?
How big is your portfolio? Are you investing on a
monthly basis? Like, talk to me about all of the
things you can.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Okay, So that recycling, it's something that we've looked at
for several years before actually pulling the trigger because it's
you know, it looks so complicated and it took us
so long to even get our head around the concept
of that splitting and all of those kind of things.
So one of the thing that was the trigger for
us is also with having you know, the two kids
in the family, we decided to see your financial advisor
(36:58):
because we also wanted our insurances sorted, and I know
you're very big on insurances. So we've got all of that.
We wanted the income and the death and the disability.
All of that is now sorted, and that was a
big thing, and we use that time to also talk
about that de'st recycling. So we put a few options
towards us. One was more a borrowing to invest, So
(37:21):
just pull out a different loan so you don't have
to inject any of your own cash. You keep your
current cashlod you keep your current cash reserve. You're just
doing the loan and use that to invest. But that's
not what we wanted. What we wanted was reduce our
mortgage and use that as an investments. So what that
means is you need to have a solid amount of money,
like a bit of a deposit that you can use
(37:43):
to kickstart the process. So I think we pulled nineteen
thousand dollars, so that means we had to have that
ninety thousand dollars in cash. Yeah, so we had to
have that in cash. We put that against the mortgage
to split it, and so that meant we reduce our
mortgage bandwenty thousand dollars. And then we had another loan
on the side that was a ninety thousand dollars investment
(38:05):
loan that was fully offset by that cash we had
pulled and put in. So that was that was the structure.
Now that nineteen thousand dollars investment loan, we needed to
first do a first big investment once again to start it.
So I think we put something like thirty k straight
in straight into the market, so we're applefolo is. It's
(38:28):
CTF based, so we're just investing in ETFs there and
then now from then on we put two and a
half thousand dollars a month into that, so just a
dollar cost averaging on a monthly basis. So I think
that's going to give us two years. I think it
is forty eight to two and a half. Yeah, that's
two years worth of investing without having to think about it.
(38:51):
And so we're using those two years to rebuild our
savings so that in two years time we can do
that again. Put some more money towards mortgage ta get
out of the mortgage, put into the investment loan, and
keep going basically until the mortgage is down to zero
and all the money is in the investment loan.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Yes, I love it because there's a clear strategy.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yes, but it took me I want to understand it
because I was like, wait a minute, we're not really
paying down the mortgage because we're just having another loan
into it. So at the end of there were still
we still have the loan. We're still awe the money.
But the way it works is I have a ninety
thousand dollars loan, but once that money is full into
the stock market, hopefully it's worth more than ninety thousand
(39:31):
dollars because the stop my kids and going up, So
we would be if we wanted to, we would be
in a position at the end to fully repay that
money and still have some leftover. Then how we do it,
that's a conversation for later on, depending on what the
market is like at the time. Do we want to
repay a big chunk at once, do we want to
just repay it slowly? We'll figure that, I think when
(39:52):
we get to it in a few years.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Yeah, And that can happen over time exactly, And you
guys are still young enough to make the most of
that as well. Like debt recycling, I would say if
you're very very close to retirement, is not a good
idea because the risk is just too high and you
don't have enough time on your side. But you guys
have so much time on your side to get through that,
and I think that it lowers the risk that you've
(40:16):
started with the cash, you paid it off your mortgage
and then leveraged your mortgage into the market. That makes me,
as an ex financial advisor, feel much better about it,
because some people just go in and leverage their equity.
So don't get me wrong, it's not a bad strategy still,
but they might find some equity in their mortgage, release
that and then use that to invest. But you then
(40:37):
have no cash that you've coughed up, so there's no fallback.
So I feel like yours is. Yes, debt recycling is risky,
but I feel like you're doing it in a smarter
way where you probably have a little bit more stability.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, well that's you know. That's while we went to
a financial advisor to advise us really on when would
be the best strategy for us and our conditions.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah, give us the good strategy and we will run
with it and we'll do it. But sometimes I just
want to be told I get it.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Talk to me about debt. Then you mentioned you have
your mortgage and then you have your investment loans. How
much debt ere in? What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So our mortgage at this stage is at still eight
hundred and sixty thound, so yeah, what that looks like?
It's you know, still solid repayments there, so we're hoping
we're going to go and see a few more interest
rates decreed over the next few months and would be lovely.
(41:32):
And then we've got the investment loan on the side,
So that was a ninety thousand investment loan, but quite
a bit of that still, half of that I think
is offset still at this stage by that money that
we pulled out. And that's it in terms of debt.
I do have a credit card, but I paid fully
every month, so I don't really consider that as a debt.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
No, that makes sense. And you why do you have
a credit card? Is it so that you can collect
points or just manage cash flow better? Like what's the
plan around the credit card?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Point is points? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Points, queen. I love this, And what are you doing
with your points.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
At the moment? Not much less time. When I had
my credit card and I had to closet, I just
use it to get a bunch of gift cards and
I've pen my groceries for a few weeks with that
so that it was free groceries, so that was lovely.
Only have that credit card for about a year, so
it wasn't too much. But my thinking is if I
have to spend the money, because I don't increase my
spending because I have a credit card, it's just I
(42:25):
use it the exact same way I would use a
debit card. So if it's money that I have to spend,
might as well get something back for it.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Loook, I'm on your team. But also we need to
be so careful because if we're not good at money management,
like you clearly are, we end up in a pickle
because we end up spending more than we earned. So
I feel like, yes, it can be a fantastic tool
and I've only just started to really utilize it now.
I feel a bit more mature. Baby me. She would
have gone Ham, and you know what she did, go Ham.
(42:51):
But today's me. I'm like, oh, this is a very
good strategy. I need to be responsible with this, but
I really like it. I want to go back to
the house conversation for a hot second. You've got eight
hundred and sixty thousand dollars mortgage. What is that property
worth and when did you first purchase?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Okay, so we first purchased in twenty twenty for five
hundred and something. So that was the little cottage that
were there on the land. So that's the cottage that
we sold and we kept the land and then we
did a build. I think the build was worth about
six hundred something like that. So let's say the investment
(43:29):
into all of it was about one to one point
one something like that, and that property now is worth
probably around one point five one point six. Ah. How good.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
And is that the house.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That you live in? Yes? Yes, and that's very much
our forever house. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
So it's like your family home. And is that the
plan to kind of stay in that family home for
a long period of time or are their plans to
upgrade or change or move.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Now one hundred percent staying there. So I think it's
pretty much two years to the day that we've in
this house, and that is the longest I spent in
one place since I've been eighteen since I moved out
a house. I've moved out seventeen times in seventeen years. Well,
I am done. I am done with moving. This is
my house.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Now, you're like, I'm not leaving, Sorry about that. That's
not an option exactly. I love this all right, So
tell me, I feel like you've got some pretty good
money habits. I mean, he came in and he said,
I'm an as, So what do you think is your
best money habit? I have a sneaky suspicion that might be,
like your ability to save.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I think it's certain it's my tracking. I am obsessive
with my tracking spending. So I used to track every month.
I would just get my expenses every month and sort
of categorize them. I've just realized that one month is
just too long because I would be very good at
sticking out a goal for two weeks, and then my
brand would just go, ooh, two weeks enough, let's go
(44:52):
do something else. So now I track daily. So every
morning I opened my computer and I opened my bank
cap and I put my expenses in so I know
exactly how I'm tracking at any point of the month,
and then it updates everything, and I do my net
worth monthly and I've got the charts and the collars
and I love it. I am absolutely obsessed with my spreadsheet.
So that's definitely my best money I've been there.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
I love that. On the flip side, what's your worst
money habit? Do you even have one?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It is so I think there's two things. One thing
is my kids. There They're my worst money habits just
in themselves because I just can't resist like a little
treat for them, or I can say no to treat
for myself easy, like I can rent that in but
when it comes to my kid, My kids like to
hear both of them getting like, you know, a book
or puzzle or a little treats of just going to
(45:40):
the cafe with them and seeing the little face. Yeah,
I am much much harder to stop there. And the
other one is definitely that I struggle to spend. I
still have the scarcity mindset. I'm still scared of spending.
I still think about it. What if I would love
to be able to sort of give up some of
(46:01):
the freelance, to have more times in the evenings and
be less tired and less stressed. But I just can't
help it. I am. Yeah, it's always like, but what
if something happens, what if you know, what if might
lose my job. I got made redundant from a job
about eighteen months ago. I was seven weeks pregnant with
my second kid at the time.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Oh my god, Yeah, that would have been so stressful.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
So trying to find another job in that situation was really,
really hard, and I was so glad I had my
Friendlance to fall back on and be able to dial
it up real quick to get some money in that.
Now I still can't help myself. And I was like,
but if I stop it and then something happened and
I don't have anything to fall back on, what's going
to happen? So I still struggle with that. We're also
(46:43):
planning a big holiday next year and same like spending
for that. When I see those numbers, they scare me,
and you know, we have the money, and my husband
really really rightly told me, it's like, yes, but what's
the point of saving so that we're able to do
it in ten years when the kids are older? When
we actually can do it now? We do have the savings.
(47:04):
We're not you know, we're not over spending for this.
We're we're still doing it the right way. But you know,
why would you wait and maybe do it in ten
years when you know we can do it now.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Yeah, it sounds like maybe there's a little bit of
work to do.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yes, definitely, And you know, we're we're both getting better
with my husband as a trusting each other with money.
We still have a we do have a joint account
for all, you know, everything that's mortgage and kids and
and all the sort of things. But we're also now
more open with our own money where you know, we've
been together seven years, so it's probably good that there
(47:36):
is some progress.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
No one dred percent And I think you're absolutely on
the right track as well. And given you know, you
were so open with us about your history and where
you've come from and what you're going through, I get it.
And you know what, it's not very helpful to then
also be made redundant that proves that you needed your
second job. Like I think I'd be in your shoes
and going, I don't really want to get rid of
this now, especially while you're carrying debt. And I'm not
(47:59):
saying that you should, but I think that I would
fully understand that situation and that mindset. But it does take,
as you already know, significant work to get out of
that mindset and going no, no, no, that's not the reality.
This isn't who I want to be or what I
want to do. And is that the only thing that
you reckon you have to work on to maybe get
to an A plus or what else would have to
(48:21):
change for you to get there.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
No, I think that's it. I think if I was
a bit more reasonable sometime with the kids spending, and
if I was a bit more relaxed around my own money, yeah,
I think I'd be pretty good there.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
I'm the same as you. I feel like before I
was a mum, I was like, oh no, I won't
get carried away with books and puzzles and little things
that he wants. And now he's only what like twenty
months old or something, and I'm literally like, oh my goodness,
Like if he wants something, I'm like, yeah, baby, let's
go get it. You want to go get baby Chinos?
Like I just love spending the time with him, and
(48:53):
like watching his little face light up when he has
a new book, like, ah, it's so bad. It's dangerous,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
And it's the little things because it's not you know.
I always say, like, I don't want to spoil my kid.
I don't want to know, constantly buy him new toys
and new things. But the little things, the books and
the time together and oh you want to have a
little ride on that little merry go around the shopping
center and yes, sure it's only three books and.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
Just it adds No, it does add up. It does
add up, and I have become that mum, And like,
I don't know, I don't think you can spoil your
kids with books, Like I just have this belief and
I will forever like believe that if my kid asks
me for a book, he can have it. Like if
you ask for other stuff, I'll be like, nah, but
if you want a book, like, I will absolutely always
buy you books. I hope that that is something that
(49:38):
you know, hopefully sparks a lot of love for reading
and whatnot, and I know that's good for them. So
I'm kind of like, do you want to go to
Dimicks and like the Dimicks at my house or like
close to my house is across from Coles, So that's
not helpful for me.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
My mom was a literature teacher, so I grew up
surrounded with books and that's definitely something that probably something
I should spend bit less as well. I do have
the library subscription and all that, but yeah, for my kids,
I want the walls covered with books. I'd be happy
with that.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
I love it. I love it or money direst Unfortunately,
we've run out of time. I wish we had so
much more time to chat. But this has been such
a beautiful story of you really starting from scratch, not
once but twice, and then I know, still having a
little bit of baggage when it comes to the emotional side,
but it sounds like you're killing it and the plan
is to retire by fifty So I just think this
(50:27):
is cool, like you've done an epic job, and I'm
just so excited about where you're at now. So thank
you so much for sharing your journey with me. I
know that my community are going to love it just
as much as I have.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
If I shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
should not be relied upon to make an investment or
financial disease. If you do choose to buy a financial product.
Speaker 5 (51:02):
Read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored
towards your needs. Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money
are authorized representatives of Money sherper P t y lt
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(00:22):
beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.
We thank acknowledge and respect the Aberiginal people's land that
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Speaker 2 (00:44):
She's on the Money.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
She's on the Money.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
that lets you be pervy about other people's money circumstances
for educational purposes, of course. Welcome back to another one
of our money daries where I get the absolute pleasure
to sit down and talk with one of our incredible
She's on the Money community members all about their journey.
Let's jump straight into it, because this week I got
(01:27):
a message and it sounded exactly like this. Hi, she's
on the money. I have a money story that shows
that life really doesn't move in a straight line. My
story is all about growing up in a household with
a pretty toxic dad, but ending up repeating the exact
same cycle with my first spoiler alert husband. It's also
about moving to the other side of the world on
(01:49):
a total whim and starting again from scratch financially, not once,
but twice at twenty five and then again at thirty
years old. All of that now to be in an
amazing relationship with someone who is on exactly the same
page as me, but also navigating what it's like to
start big joint financial goals when you come with such
(02:09):
big baggage of people taking advantage of you in the past.
I am very excited for this money diary. Welcome to
the show Money Diarist. Hi, I just feel like I've
got so many questions like toxic dad, okay, toxic husband,
oh goosey, Like then you've moved across the world, not
once but twice, Like girl, that sounds expensive. I just
(02:32):
have lots of questions.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Yeah, yeah, like, and I'm glad that you're like, hey girl,
I'm so willing to share this with the community. Before
we get there, though, If I asked you to rate
your money habits on a scale from A three to
F what would you rate them?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I think at this stage I would probably give myself
a minus.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Okay, I love this, I love this. I have some
questions about it doesn't seem like it would take much
to get to an A plus. What would that look like?
But let's that for the end of the show, my friend,
let's dive further in. I want to know, tell me
more about growing up in a household where you had
a pretty toxic data less go from there.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yes, so obviously it's something that maybe didn't pack me
growing up, but that I reflected upon afterwards, realizing you
know the truth behind it, especially when it comes to
money story. We didn't talk much about money growing up,
which you know is not the healthiest in itself.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
It's also really common, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Very common, and I think so. I'm French, and especially
in France still now, money is very taboo. It's not
something that people openly discuss, so I knew that my
mom was the bread winner. Mom had quite a good
job and was making a decent amount of money. Dad
not so much. She was a government employee, but probably
(03:47):
more on the lower side of the wages. And what
was happening is that my mom would try to save
and save and save, and then my dad would go
and spend and spend and.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Spend so and she was working so hard.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, she was working so hard, like crazy hours. And
in hindsight, it breaks my heart to realize what was happening.
And you know, obviously, as I said, growing up, I
didn't really realize. And then my dad was so very
good at taking advantage of that. It would do the
same with his mom, just show up at my grandma's,
bought a credit card, and just spend very good at
(04:21):
spending other people's money. In hindsight, there's definitely some things
going there. There's definitely some diagnosed ADHD on my dad,
because I am diagnosed myself.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, yeah, the apple never falls that far from the tree.
I don't want to hear that though, do they.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
No, absolutely not. But there's definitely some impulse spending. It
would change cars every six months and buy a new
car all the time and constantly spending on things. So
it's only talking to my mom later on that she
told me that, you know, like even though she wasn't
a good income, our account would be in the red
at the end of each months because like in France
(04:57):
you can go under it. We don't have the same
credit card system, so you have a debit carbage can
spend more that's on your account, like yeah, and so yeah,
she told me that. Yeah, she often spent time negotiating
with the banks and all those kind of things, even
though the money was there. My dad was just quicker
at spending in that we were earning it.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
No, especially if she's working so hard and then trying
to bring new guys up. It would have been like
having a thirty responsible child.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Oh, I think worse than that, really, it's yeah, yeah,
So my parents separated when I was in my early twenties,
which was hard, but once again I think I wish
it had happened earlier. I think for my mom's sake,
I wish she would have found that piece earlier. But
so they separated. That was about I think twenty two,
and it was right at the time when I met
(05:45):
the person who would become my husband, well my first husband,
so that relationship was also not the healthiest and I
ended up. You know what they say, we like sometimes
they say, you marry your dad. That's roughly what happened.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
It's great advice if you have a fantastic dad, Like
great advice, terrible advice if your dad was irresponsible. But
it's funny because it's very true. And in like the
world of psychology, you can like look at a lot
of people who talk about it, and it's because you
find that familiar and you go, well, oh, that feels safe,
and that's very familiar, and I'm comfortable with that. Like
(06:23):
there's no real surprises. It's not what you deserve. It
is not what you deserve. But from a psychological perspective,
like that person would have immediately felt very familiar, very comfortable,
Like you could predict their behaviors right because you knew
what that looked like and you know what that feels like.
That feels like love.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So he was not good.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Oh no, not safe, but like mentally you feel safe
because you know what you can predict, and humans inherently
love being able to predict what's going to happen next.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That's interesting. Yeah, that explains a lot. That makes a
lot of sense to me.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
It's not fun though, like like you probably had to
come toious some very hard conclude maybe that's not great,
and it sounds like you have Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
So it was also very very good at spending. So
I was not making a great amount of money. I
was in my first job, so I was making like
not much more above minimum wage, but still trying to save.
I've always been a very very good saver, definitely getting
that from my mom growing up and putting the pile
of money and counting my money and a bit of
that behavior. Very much discusting mindset there, and so I
(07:26):
would try to say, but once again, it would be
very good at spending and very good at convincing me
that we needed things that we didn't. Yeah. Yes, so
that didn't help because I didn't want to part with
my money, but also very probably a bit naive and
gold a ball there.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
You were just doing what felt right at the time.
Like I think sometimes we crucify ourselves and you go, oh,
so naive, are so silly, like I shouldn't have done it,
And of course, in hindsight because you're now more educated,
but at the time, you're like, I really like this
person and he probably cares about me in the same
way that I do about him, and that that's the case.
It wasn't, but like you just can't see through it, No.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And getting the dopamine hit from the purchase, which you
once again giving a dopamine hit to an ADHD person.
It's not a good idea, how.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
School, isn't it. No, I get it, I really get it.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So Yeah, when we decided to get married, for example,
we decided to create a joint account to put the
money for the wedding there to try and save. So
until then we had everything separate. So the first time
we created a joint account, and the deal was every month,
let's try and put a couple of hundred each onto
that account and try and save. We had planned to
get married about two years later, so we had plenty
(08:36):
of time to see it coming. I was putting the
money every month. I don't think he ever did. I
don't think there's one month where he put the money
in because he didn't have the money, or he would
quit his job on a whim and so there would
be no money and I would have to pay for it.
Like all of those things. So once again I was
bearing that burden. And then one day I was looking
(08:57):
for a job, and actually I was not even look
looking for a job. I was just googling some competitors
to my current employer, and one of them ended up
being in Australia, and I was like, ooh, Australia sounds good,
and oh, they're looking for someone that does the same
job that what I'm doing, so let's just apply. Just see,
I had never thought about going to Australia at that point.
It was just a complete whim and I applied and
(09:20):
I got the job, and a month later we decided
to move to the other side of the world. And
my fancy at the time was unemployed, so that was
easy for him to follow me. And that was about
four months before our wedding in France. So well, like,
that's fine, we'll move to Australia. We'll moved to Australia.
We'll use that as a test period, go back to
(09:41):
friends for the wedding, and if we didn't like the experience,
we'll just stay in France after that.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
And just like the experience, it sounds like you've got
your head screwed on. You're a smart girl. I like it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It was a good test and a good way to
deal with the stress of moving to the other side
of the world in the space of a month. So
we moved, and you know, with all of that comespain
for flights and paying for visa and paying full of
the things, and obviously getting a new accommodation and rents.
Even though you know, eleven years ago, rent wasn't as
(10:09):
crazy as it is today, it was still an.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Expense, but it was crazy because your income was probably less.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, and by buying a car because we didn't have
a carr in friends cause lived in big city. But
obviously moving to Australia it was a different story. So
we basically arrived in Australia and had not a dollar
left to our name. After that, we had, like until
my first income came through my first monthly pay, we
had pretty much nothing. We were starting from zero and
(10:35):
we had a wedding four months later, so there was
that too, So that was you know, that was a
bit stressful. But it's interesting coming to Australia from another country.
I felt like the richest person on the earth and
my income was probably it was the minimum for my
visa for something like fifty five K a year at
the time, and I felt like the absolute richest person
(10:56):
in the world. It was amazing. So obviously my husband
also like the richest person in the world, and we
know what happens in that situation. He would just once
again spend and be very quick at getting rid of
a job just because something was bothering him in it.
I'm not really putting himself towards our big money goals.
(11:16):
So that was a lot and that pattern kept on going.
So we were married for about four years to all,
and that just kept on going. Each time you would
get a new job or I would get some sort
of race at my work, it would be like, oh,
that's amazing with that amount, Like we had the budgets,
preach it, we had everything sorted, and it would put
it in and be like, look, with that amount, we
were going to be able to save this amount, to
(11:38):
save this amount, And at first I was like excited
as well, but after a couple of times, I'd be like, yeah, great,
I know that's not going to happen because you say that,
but I know this is just going to get spent
because that's what always always happens. So that became quite
stressful and very frustrating as well to just not being
able to reach any goals because all the money would
just go into things.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Really, I'm sorry that feels so stressful, and I feel
like coming to that conclusion is really hard as well,
because you go, hold on, hold on, hold on, like
this isn't what you said it was going to be.
It's not and that can be really upsetting.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, it was, and I think that's when I reached thirty.
When I turned thirty, I had that big life crisis
where I just realized I was like, is this what
I want my life to be? And the answer was not,
this is just not what I want for myself. I
can't keep going. I don't know. I had this realization
(12:34):
that you only have one life and there's no do over,
there's no you know, I can try something else at
the end of the day. Once it's done, it's done.
So I just make the big and really really hard
decision to leave that marriage, which at the time was
it was just so hard. I still can't understand how
(12:55):
I did it, but it is to this day the
best decision I've made for myself.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
And like, there's going to be a lot of people
listening to this who might be feeling similar, right, Like,
how you came to that conclusion? Right? So you had
probably had some talks with yourself and some three am
thoughts and not being able to sleep, and you're working
out what you're going to do, So you come to
this conclusion, right, I'm going to leave. But how did
you start facilitating that? Did you start a conversation? Like
(13:23):
did you move out immediately? Like what did that actually
look like? Because I think that that's the part that
so many of us are so scared of.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It is it is incredibly hard, especially when we're with
someone that is that is manipulative. It is really really hard.
And I was at the point where I was having
several panic attacks a day, and one of my friends
who had been through a similar situation, told me, your
body will tell you at some point, will tell you
to leave because you just won't have a choice anymore.
(13:51):
And that's that's the point I reached. It. It was
like my body telling me you have to do it now,
Like it's we can't keep going. So I just walked
up at home once and I sat down and I
remember I started crying. It was like what's happening. And
I just told him that it's done, it's over, and
that's it. And then there was a lot of emotional
manpulation and threats and all that that came into it,
(14:14):
and I almost backed off a few times, but each
time I was like, oh, maybe maybe I can't believe
my body would go into panic attack and telling me no, no, no, no, no,
you've started this.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No no, no, no, you're leaving. You're leaving by the way.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
We're doing it, girl, that is happening.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Who knew? Like, but I just decided I didn't money.
It was all too hard and your body's like a A,
we didn't come this far or only come this far.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
That is exactly it. So I was extremely lucky. First,
I had a colleague who had a spare room and
she's like, girl, come and stay at mine for a
week and just you know, so that you can get
that space. So I moved out and moved in with
her in her spare room for about a week. And
I was also in a job that was wonderful with
(14:59):
men that were wonderful, and I went to talk to
my boss and say, hey, this is what's happening. I
feel like I need the space. Can I go to
friends in my family for a couple of weeks and
I'll work from there. And they're like, yeah, that's fine,
just take the time. And also we've got an office
in London, so you know what, just take three weeks,
spend one week in London as well in the office there.
Two weeks is not enough, you need three. Just just go.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
They were just wonderful, Oh what icons.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And so I did that. I went away for three weeks.
That allowed me to put the space that was very
much needed because if I had stayed in Australia, you know,
in the same city, in the same neighboring suburbs, that
would probably have been much much harder to put that
distance between us. And when I was obviously as also
started looking for flats to move in for housemates and
(15:46):
found someone and I think I arrived back in Australia
on the Saturday, and on Sunday morning, I moved out
and moved in with housemates.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So it went quick. Yeah wow, logistically, but that was
very needed because I don't think I would have been
able to stay nearby that the manipulation would have been
just too intense and too hard.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Yeah, but I'm really glad that you're able to identify that,
because so many people don't. They go, oh, well, you know,
maybe this is the next step, right, like maybe just
a little bit of distance will do us good. No, no, no, no,
run run for the hills.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
That's it. Once you made the decision, you just have
to stick to it because it gets even the harder
and harder to just try again. And you know, so
it was good, but then I was just I think
I was in hindsight once again, I was just very nice,
maybe too nice, because like, oh well, I left, so
he stuck with paying the rent for the place. It
(16:41):
was my decision, So I kept paying half the rent
for about six months until I least ran out. So
I was paying for my share of my you know,
with my housemaid. I was paying for my room, and
I was giving in the money for about half of
his rent. He could have found a housemates himself. There
were many multiple rooms in that house. He had many options.
But I, once again I think I was not fully
(17:02):
out of his grasp there and I still was doing
this and helping, which, yeah, in hindsight, I'm like, why
did I do that?
Speaker 4 (17:11):
But what a nice person that says you are not
because you were kind, And you know what, I would
love to be accused of being kind consistently like you
did it because you felt at the time that that
was the best thing to do. Did he deserve it?
Absolutely not. But it's a reflection of your values, not his.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
No, I think, yeah, it's true, Like at least I
can look myself in the mirror and say I've done
the right thing, not necessarily by myself but by him.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Absolutely you have. So you move out in Australia on
your own, what does life look like then.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, so financially that's the same on time, I started
from scratch because we separated. We had some money aside,
but I took that because I had to buy a
car for myself to you just move around. That just
needed the car. So basically the only share of the
saving that we had went into that car. It was
something like, I don't know, twelve thousand dollars. It was
(18:04):
not a crazy, crazy amount. And then I left him
with everything, like all of our things, everything that was
material stayed with him, so he kept all of that
and I had two three strait cases and I bought
my car and that was all I had, all I
had to my name at that point, which was a
bit scary, but at the same time that was very
(18:24):
much the fresh start that I needed. I was, for
the first time with a job that I liked, with
an income that was quite good. If I remember, I
was at the time on something like a maybe like
a ninety k something like that.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Oh, okay, so you'd gone up from that fifty five k.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, So I was earning a good amount of money
and I had a reasonable amount of expense, and for
the first time in my life, I didn't have anyone
that would come and touch that money. It was mine
and it was mine to take control of, and that
was just the best feeling. I started by reading The
Barefoot Investor and you know, there's a first step.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yep, great start, and.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Looked at you all his money, and put my budgets
together and put my different accounts and all of that,
and it just felt so liberating to be in control
and to do all of that by myself.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Oh, I'm so glad.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It wasn't scary at all, even though I had like
very little to my name. It was the best feeling.
And I was like, I can finally save and spend
for what my values are.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Well, yeah, because even if you had little, it was
all yours. No one was going to spend it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yes, absolutely, that was really really good. And I was like, okay,
so now you know, I said, alone in Australia, I
had friends because I had been there for by then
about yea four and a half years, so I knew people.
I had some friends, I had my housemates and I'm
still very good friends with now. And it was like
(19:53):
life was good and it's interesting. People at work even
told me, like, you're standing straighter then you used to.
It's you're like a different person. It's just that whole
weight that had been lifted from my shoulder on all fronts.
That was the best feeling. I adore that. I'm so
happy that you got to experience that. But isn't it
crazy that not only mental change, but the physical change
(20:16):
people experience when they just aren't weighed down by the
wrong people, Like it's crazy. I don't think you realize
when you're in the thick of it. It's only when
you come out on the other side and you look
back and you're like, oh my god, oh my.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
God, what was I doing? But like, good on you.
I love this, so I know that you're now married again.
What happened after that? Like you, we got back into
dating and.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Then so only two months after my separation, I met
that guy on an APP and it was also fresh
out of a marriage. So what that meant is we
were both quite keen on not going too serious too
early on and just taking our time. A few months
later when we decided to get see, we were very
(21:01):
clear on our expectations. Communication was big, and we were
very clear on Okay, if we're going to do this,
and we're going to do it for real, this is
what I'm expecting from a relationship. I want you know,
family is a big value. We want to be on
the same page financially, you want to be on the
same page on all aspects. We were very clear on
what we were ready or not ready to tolerate. I
(21:22):
think that was the greatest thing, Like it's it helped
us so much not repeating other mystics.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
I'm obsessed. You deserve all of that. How soon after
you got out of that relationship did you get really
serious with this new guy?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
About six months? So it did go much quicker than
I expected it to be, and It's also about the
time that he decided to move into state, So like, okay, great,
now that we're attached and you're moving into state, what's
going to look like for us. Luckily, my job at
the time had an office in that other state, so
I ended up commuting quite a bit, doing two weeks
(21:58):
in one office one week and another off, and just
flying quite a lot for about six months while we
were testing out of the relationship. And then I moved
in with him six months after that. So I had
been out of my previous marriage for about a year
when we moved in together.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
When you know, you know, I just I love love.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Absolutely, but we were still very careful with everything, finances,
dividing everything and both keeping i'd say our money quite
close to our chests, both being a bit you know,
scarred with our previous experiences.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Oh absolutely, And I think that you do have to
protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, it took us quite a while to just get
to that stage of trust and still do this day.
We're now, you know, we're married, we've got two kids,
we've got a house, and we still don't share finances. Fully,
It's crazy, but it's just how it is.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I kind of love that though, like I'm you're just
protecting yourselves.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yes, always, And we had like lots of discussions though,
And we moved together in Journe twenty nineteen, so about,
you know, six months before COVID hit, which was also
a big test on the relationship. When you've been living
together for six months and then you end up stuck
in an apartment just the two of you for a
(23:13):
few months at a time.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
I yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And that's also when we decided that we would move
back to Brisbane where we're from and at some point
and we would want to buy a house, so we
decided to buy interstate in COVID. So obviously we could
not fly to Brisbane because the borders where constantly goes
so interesting. Fight we actually bought our house after only
(23:36):
seeing it on FaceTime stop here. We couldn't fly, so
we just sent his family. We sent his moms and
his sisters to inspection with us and they would FaceTime
for us and tell us what they thought. Then that
is how we chose our house and that's how we
bought it. So when we bought the planes, we had
never seen it, just yeah FaceTime and having to trust
family members to make the right choice for us.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
And what happened when you turned up at the house,
were you like, oh my god, this is is not
what I expected.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It was good. So we rented it for six months
before we were able to move back, and the goal
was always to either do a renovation or knockdown rebuilds.
So we're like, worst case scenario. If it's really bad,
we'll just start the reno process earlier rather than later.
But something that's interesting as well. So when we bought
the house, we did put the same amount each in
the deposits. So I had been out of marriage for
(24:24):
two years, I had started from scrash two years before,
and by that point I had saved over fifty thousand
dollars by myself.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Stop it by yourself, by myself. I'm so proud of
you all my money. Yeah, yeah get it, queen.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I love this. That was a big achievement. Yeah. Reflecting
on that and that really taught me as well, what
I can achieve when you know I don't have someone
leitching on me. Basically, when I have that control and
when I can do what I want to. Yeah, I
was crazy. And I also had started investing. I had
studying ETF. So originally I was investing on the raise.
(24:59):
I think started pretty much the moment I left my
marriage because we were doing that with my ex husband.
We were on the race when it was still called
Acorn back in the very early days.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I was on there then too.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, and then twenty nineteen is also when I started
listening to She's on the Money. I actually went to
an event in October twenty nineteen, so very very early days.
Stop it.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Oh please, don't talk about it. That would have been
so embarrassing. I would have been such a baby.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It was great, it was great. It was a free
event in Sydney, and yeah I loved it.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Oh yeah, and I did those cute goodie bags and
the notebooks.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yes, and so yeah it really helped me, I think,
put that structure as well round my budget, and that's
when I got into ETFs and all those kind of things.
So not only did I save that money, I had
started investing as well back on the side, So I
was really proud of that achievement. And yeah, we moved
into our house and then decided to do a knockgowner rebuilt.
(25:57):
And also an interesting fact there, we did not actually
knocked down the house. We had a better plan financially,
which was sell the house, not the land, just the house.
So we use one of those relocations company that come
and you know, put your house on the truck and
take your house away. So instead of paying for demolition,
you're actually getting paid for the house.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
So they bought your house literally, but you just kept
the land. You were like, you can have the house,
but you can't keep it here out exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
They just moved our house into another location. Some people bought.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
It, and yeah, wow, that is very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
So that was also a big, big saving something I'd
definitely recommend to people doing them rebuilt have a talk
to these companies, because we probably would have paid something
like thirty thousand dollars for the demolition, removing the asbestos
and all that, and we ended up getting paid instead,
so that's quite a good deal.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I love this. I love this so much, very very savy.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think as well as well. Being with my husband
was also very financially focused as being a big difference
because we're on exactly the same page. We took very
openly about money, and I want my kids to grow
up having those conversations around the house as well hearing
us talk about money and all those kind of things
to not repeat what I've been through where money was
very much taboo in the house. So we have those
(27:10):
big goals and now we've got the two kids. Going
on to Matt leave was very very hard for me
because I only had the central link amount of money,
not company paid leave, and having to rely on someone
not being in control and not having my own income,
not being able to contribute to the household that I
(27:31):
usually do, having to let go that was incredibly hard
on me. Even though my husband is amazing and absolutely
was compensating my income is income and paying for that
and it was never even a question for him, It's
still very very hard to let go. I still have
that mentality when I'm scared of not having enough money
(27:54):
to contribute and I don't want to be dependent on
someone like That's something that I I'm really struggling with.
So yeah, we've got but we do have the two
kids now, and we are paying down mortgage and we
actually debt recycling for the mortgage, so we're investing through
the debt recycling, So yeah, we were previously. We each
(28:16):
have our own investing accounts, so we were putting all
that money separately, but now we've decided to join that
together and put the money into the debt recycling instead.
So the way it works is that we paid some
money into our mortgage and then we basically split the
mortgage into the normal mortgage and an investment loan, and
(28:37):
that investment loan is then what is used to invest
into the share market. So it's something that we consider
for a while before actually pulling the trigger, and it's
not something that we did by ourself. We had a
chat with our financial advisor, we had a chat with
our mortgage broker, we had a chat with our accountants,
we had the whole team just to make sure it's
done right because it does come with some risk, especially
(28:59):
if you don't do it properly. So I'd say it's
a great thing for people who have a mortgage but
still want to invest and want to do it, but
you need to do it right. Then make sure you
talk to the right people to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Absolutely, And I think that that's something that we get
a lot of questions in our community. People ask should
I do it? Like is it going to work for me?
And it's one of those things where It's like debt
recycling can be a fantastic strategy if you've got the
right team around you and you've got the right advice,
but if you didn't, it can actually be a really
terrible thing for you because it obviously involves a significant
(29:32):
amount of money. And like going back and forth, it
sounds like you've nailed it, and I think that maybe
at some point soon I should do an episode on
dat recycling because of the amount of questions we get,
because it can be scary too, Like if the market
goes down and then you get a margin call, like
oh my goodness, Like that can be so stressful.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
It basically relies on the market growing more than one
your interest is so if you've got a six percent
interest rate, you need the market to go up by
more than six percent every year that you're losing money,
and that can be quite imaging. So you need to
be okay with that as.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Well, exactly, And I'll talk about that in a hot second.
I just have so many questions, and I just I
love that you've got two kids and you found your
dream life and your partner. And I know you said
that you were still struggling with like you know, letting
go a little bit, but that feels fair and reasonable.
Tell me, what do you and your partner do? Now? Like,
how much money are you earning?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So we're we're on solid amount of money. So I
earn one hundred and forty thousand dollars a year. That's
through my full time job, but I also freelance on
the side. Same with that amount of money. I don't
need the freelance, but that's another thing that I struggle
to let go off. I was like, there's this money
there and I cannot say no if people ask me
to do some work. So that brings in probably another
(30:48):
twenty to thirty K a year just for the freelance.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Oh okay, So what type of freelancing are you doing?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Marketing, consulting.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yeah, very cool, very cool.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So I'm I work in marketing in my full time
role and then I also do that. So I've been
doing that since COVID pretty much, and I have some
clients that I've been with me since those days. I
did do it full time for a while, but then
I just missed the human connection. I just missed working
with people. So now I've decided to just keep it
on the side and keep the freelance. I still have
(31:17):
some projects here and there, and I think it also
allows my brain to keep ticking and just thinks of
new ideas, So I do enjoy that, but it's yeah,
I think I would struggle just saying no to that
money that's twenty thirty thousand years can make a big
difference on the mortgage, so it's hard to just say
no to that exactly.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
And also earlier you mentioned that you have ADHD, like
we just don't stop. We've just got stuff to do
with busy, busy people, and if you have free time,
you're always like concocting another plan. So I think this
is very good for you absolutely. And what does your
partner do and work in hr very cool? And what
type of income does he have?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Roughly just on its paid income is about two hundred.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Yeah, very cool, So you've got a really nice income,
which makes sense. And I wanted to know both of
your incomes because you mentioned that you were debt recycling
and like, there is no way when I was a
financial advisor that I would let a couple even think
about dat recycling if they didn't have a duel income
of more than two hundred thousand dollars together, like it
just it wouldn't become an option because it's just there's
(32:19):
too much risk involved. And that's why I was like, oh,
I want to know, Like, I've just got so many questions.
Tell me, you've got their family, You've got some big
financial goals. What are they? What are we currently working towards.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
The moment is about paying down that mortgage. It will
become much easier once all the sun starts cooled and
by the year time. Because they care costs, they're just
I think that's one of the things that people don't
talk to as much. They like, sure, we are on
a very solid amount of money. Don't get me wrong,
I'm very happy with that, but I mean their care
cost us about eight hundred bucks a week.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
It is rude at this point. It is just rude.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yeah, And like I don't want people to think I'm complaining.
It is a privilege to be able to pay for it.
It is a privilege to go back to work. All
of that stuff great, fantastic, but when you start sending
your kid to daycare, irrespective of what you get back,
you have to have that amount of money in your
account to go out of your account to then have
a refund happen, and that's just a lot of money
(33:17):
going back and forth. It is expensive, Like I don't
know what you're paying per day, but we at the
moment are paying like two hundred ish dollars a day
for daycare, and Harvey's in daycare two days a week,
which is four hundred dollars a week. And yes, it
is in our budget, but that's a significant amount of
money that I look at and go, oh my god,
I could be investing that for his future, Like what
(33:37):
is going on here and you'll be double Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Pay about it's about eight hundred dollar a week after
the rebate.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Yeah, but your kids would be in daycare full time too,
so that would be so expensive.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yes, they're in full time.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, it's a lot of money coming out. So I
think the one of the big financial goal is just
wait for the kids to be in school. That's definitely
going to help, But it's all about paying down the
mortgage for us. That's a priority. We would love to
be able to retire early, maybe you know, at around
fifty would be ideal, so that we're still young and
so well. Can enjoy time with the kids and all
(34:14):
of that's. Yeah, I think all of our focus at
the moment is on paying down the mortgage. Really, I
love this.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
It feels like you're super clear on what you're going
to achieve. Have you always been this clear on your
money goals? Or do you think that having engaged a
financial advisor and spoken to mortgage brokers and doing debt recycling, like,
do you think that that has made you clearer?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Like?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
How do we get this clarity that you've got.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I've always been a saver. Definitely still have that scarcity mindset,
and I think that's yeah, it's probably one thing I
need to work on. So I've always been a very
good saver. I wasn't always saving for something. Sometimes it
was just about having that money on the side just
in case something happens. And I still have a bit
of that. Like I've had quite a few health issues recently,
(34:58):
and I am so grateful that I had that money
aside and I could afford to pay for that, and
I could afford to pay for the psychiatrists for an
ADHD diagnosis. That's going to help me all of those
kind of things. So I'm glad I have that, but
in terms of the money goals, yeah, no, I don't
think I was clear. I think it's also very much
about being with my husband, and you know, I think
(35:20):
he probably he grew up in a very different type
of household where money was a bit more talked about
and he was much clear on his goals and he's
been able to bring me onto that journey with him.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah, and that's really beautiful. As well as being like,
oh my god, yes, you deserve all of these and more.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
It's definitely been the best. I think There's been discussions about,
you know, your choosing your partner is the biggest financial
decision that you make, but if I look at my
path and where I'm now, for me, it's definitely been
the one that's had the biggest impact bossing negative and
impositive in my life. In terms of my financial partner.
I love it.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Let's go to a really quick break because on the
flip side, I want to talk more about your investing.
I need to know how your debt recycling, not just
that you're doing it. I want the needy gritty. I
also want to know about your debts, and I want
to know your best and worst money habits. So guys,
don't go anywhere money dice. We are back, and oh,
(36:15):
can we just dive straight back into this debt recycling conversation.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Talk to me about your.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Portfolio structure because we know you're investing, we know you're
using debt recycling to invest, but what does that mean?
How big is your portfolio? Are you investing on a
monthly basis? Like, talk to me about all of the
things you can.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Okay, So that recycling, it's something that we've looked at
for several years before actually pulling the trigger because it's
you know, it looks so complicated and it took us
so long to even get our head around the concept
of that splitting and all of those kind of things.
So one of the thing that was the trigger for
us is also with having you know, the two kids
in the family, we decided to see your financial advisor
(36:58):
because we also wanted our insurances sorted, and I know
you're very big on insurances. So we've got all of that.
We wanted the income and the death and the disability.
All of that is now sorted, and that was a
big thing, and we use that time to also talk
about that de'st recycling. So we put a few options
towards us. One was more a borrowing to invest, So
(37:21):
just pull out a different loan so you don't have
to inject any of your own cash. You keep your
current cashlod you keep your current cash reserve. You're just
doing the loan and use that to invest. But that's
not what we wanted. What we wanted was reduce our
mortgage and use that as an investments. So what that
means is you need to have a solid amount of money,
like a bit of a deposit that you can use
(37:43):
to kickstart the process. So I think we pulled nineteen
thousand dollars, so that means we had to have that
ninety thousand dollars in cash. Yeah, so we had to
have that in cash. We put that against the mortgage
to split it, and so that meant we reduce our
mortgage bandwenty thousand dollars. And then we had another loan
on the side that was a ninety thousand dollars investment
(38:05):
loan that was fully offset by that cash we had
pulled and put in. So that was that was the structure.
Now that nineteen thousand dollars investment loan, we needed to
first do a first big investment once again to start it.
So I think we put something like thirty k straight
in straight into the market, so we're applefolo is. It's
(38:28):
CTF based, so we're just investing in ETFs there and
then now from then on we put two and a
half thousand dollars a month into that, so just a
dollar cost averaging on a monthly basis. So I think
that's going to give us two years. I think it
is forty eight to two and a half. Yeah, that's
two years worth of investing without having to think about it.
(38:51):
And so we're using those two years to rebuild our
savings so that in two years time we can do
that again. Put some more money towards mortgage ta get
out of the mortgage, put into the investment loan, and
keep going basically until the mortgage is down to zero
and all the money is in the investment loan.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Yes, I love it because there's a clear strategy.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yes, but it took me I want to understand it
because I was like, wait a minute, we're not really
paying down the mortgage because we're just having another loan
into it. So at the end of there were still
we still have the loan. We're still awe the money.
But the way it works is I have a ninety
thousand dollars loan, but once that money is full into
the stock market, hopefully it's worth more than ninety thousand
(39:31):
dollars because the stop my kids and going up, So
we would be if we wanted to, we would be
in a position at the end to fully repay that
money and still have some leftover. Then how we do it,
that's a conversation for later on, depending on what the
market is like at the time. Do we want to
repay a big chunk at once, do we want to
just repay it slowly? We'll figure that, I think when
(39:52):
we get to it in a few years.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Yeah, And that can happen over time exactly, And you
guys are still young enough to make the most of
that as well. Like debt recycling, I would say if
you're very very close to retirement, is not a good
idea because the risk is just too high and you
don't have enough time on your side. But you guys
have so much time on your side to get through that,
and I think that it lowers the risk that you've
(40:16):
started with the cash, you paid it off your mortgage
and then leveraged your mortgage into the market. That makes me,
as an ex financial advisor, feel much better about it,
because some people just go in and leverage their equity.
So don't get me wrong, it's not a bad strategy still,
but they might find some equity in their mortgage, release
that and then use that to invest. But you then
(40:37):
have no cash that you've coughed up, so there's no fallback.
So I feel like yours is. Yes, debt recycling is risky,
but I feel like you're doing it in a smarter
way where you probably have a little bit more stability.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, well that's you know. That's while we went to
a financial advisor to advise us really on when would
be the best strategy for us and our conditions.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah, give us the good strategy and we will run
with it and we'll do it. But sometimes I just
want to be told I get it.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Talk to me about debt. Then you mentioned you have
your mortgage and then you have your investment loans. How
much debt ere in? What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So our mortgage at this stage is at still eight
hundred and sixty thound, so yeah, what that looks like?
It's you know, still solid repayments there, so we're hoping
we're going to go and see a few more interest
rates decreed over the next few months and would be lovely.
(41:32):
And then we've got the investment loan on the side,
So that was a ninety thousand investment loan, but quite
a bit of that still, half of that I think
is offset still at this stage by that money that
we pulled out. And that's it in terms of debt.
I do have a credit card, but I paid fully
every month, so I don't really consider that as a debt.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
No, that makes sense. And you why do you have
a credit card? Is it so that you can collect
points or just manage cash flow better? Like what's the
plan around the credit card?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Point is points? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:01):
Points, queen. I love this, And what are you doing
with your points.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
At the moment? Not much less time. When I had
my credit card and I had to closet, I just
use it to get a bunch of gift cards and
I've pen my groceries for a few weeks with that
so that it was free groceries, so that was lovely.
Only have that credit card for about a year, so
it wasn't too much. But my thinking is if I
have to spend the money, because I don't increase my
spending because I have a credit card, it's just I
(42:25):
use it the exact same way I would use a
debit card. So if it's money that I have to spend,
might as well get something back for it.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Loook, I'm on your team. But also we need to
be so careful because if we're not good at money management,
like you clearly are, we end up in a pickle
because we end up spending more than we earned. So
I feel like, yes, it can be a fantastic tool
and I've only just started to really utilize it now.
I feel a bit more mature. Baby me. She would
have gone Ham, and you know what she did, go Ham.
(42:51):
But today's me. I'm like, oh, this is a very
good strategy. I need to be responsible with this, but
I really like it. I want to go back to
the house conversation for a hot second. You've got eight
hundred and sixty thousand dollars mortgage. What is that property
worth and when did you first purchase?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Okay, so we first purchased in twenty twenty for five
hundred and something. So that was the little cottage that
were there on the land. So that's the cottage that
we sold and we kept the land and then we
did a build. I think the build was worth about
six hundred something like that. So let's say the investment
(43:29):
into all of it was about one to one point
one something like that, and that property now is worth
probably around one point five one point six. Ah. How good.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
And is that the house.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That you live in? Yes? Yes, and that's very much
our forever house. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
So it's like your family home. And is that the
plan to kind of stay in that family home for
a long period of time or are their plans to
upgrade or change or move.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Now one hundred percent staying there. So I think it's
pretty much two years to the day that we've in
this house, and that is the longest I spent in
one place since I've been eighteen since I moved out
a house. I've moved out seventeen times in seventeen years. Well,
I am done. I am done with moving. This is
my house.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
Now, you're like, I'm not leaving, Sorry about that. That's
not an option exactly. I love this all right, So
tell me, I feel like you've got some pretty good
money habits. I mean, he came in and he said,
I'm an as, So what do you think is your
best money habit? I have a sneaky suspicion that might be,
like your ability to save.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I think it's certain it's my tracking. I am obsessive
with my tracking spending. So I used to track every month.
I would just get my expenses every month and sort
of categorize them. I've just realized that one month is
just too long because I would be very good at
sticking out a goal for two weeks, and then my
brand would just go, ooh, two weeks enough, let's go
(44:52):
do something else. So now I track daily. So every
morning I opened my computer and I opened my bank
cap and I put my expenses in so I know
exactly how I'm tracking at any point of the month,
and then it updates everything, and I do my net
worth monthly and I've got the charts and the collars
and I love it. I am absolutely obsessed with my spreadsheet.
So that's definitely my best money I've been there.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
I love that. On the flip side, what's your worst
money habit? Do you even have one?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It is so I think there's two things. One thing
is my kids. There They're my worst money habits just
in themselves because I just can't resist like a little
treat for them, or I can say no to treat
for myself easy, like I can rent that in but
when it comes to my kid, My kids like to
hear both of them getting like, you know, a book
or puzzle or a little treats of just going to
(45:40):
the cafe with them and seeing the little face. Yeah,
I am much much harder to stop there. And the
other one is definitely that I struggle to spend. I
still have the scarcity mindset. I'm still scared of spending.
I still think about it. What if I would love
to be able to sort of give up some of
(46:01):
the freelance, to have more times in the evenings and
be less tired and less stressed. But I just can't
help it. I am. Yeah, it's always like, but what
if something happens, what if you know, what if might
lose my job. I got made redundant from a job
about eighteen months ago. I was seven weeks pregnant with
my second kid at the time.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Oh my god, Yeah, that would have been so stressful.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
So trying to find another job in that situation was really,
really hard, and I was so glad I had my
Friendlance to fall back on and be able to dial
it up real quick to get some money in that.
Now I still can't help myself. And I was like,
but if I stop it and then something happened and
I don't have anything to fall back on, what's going
to happen? So I still struggle with that. We're also
(46:43):
planning a big holiday next year and same like spending
for that. When I see those numbers, they scare me,
and you know, we have the money, and my husband
really really rightly told me, it's like, yes, but what's
the point of saving so that we're able to do
it in ten years when the kids are older? When
we actually can do it now? We do have the savings.
(47:04):
We're not you know, we're not over spending for this.
We're we're still doing it the right way. But you know,
why would you wait and maybe do it in ten
years when you know we can do it now.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Yeah, it sounds like maybe there's a little bit of
work to do.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yes, definitely, And you know, we're we're both getting better
with my husband as a trusting each other with money.
We still have a we do have a joint account
for all, you know, everything that's mortgage and kids and
and all the sort of things. But we're also now
more open with our own money where you know, we've
been together seven years, so it's probably good that there
(47:36):
is some progress.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
No one dred percent And I think you're absolutely on
the right track as well. And given you know, you
were so open with us about your history and where
you've come from and what you're going through, I get it.
And you know what, it's not very helpful to then
also be made redundant that proves that you needed your
second job. Like I think I'd be in your shoes
and going, I don't really want to get rid of
this now, especially while you're carrying debt. And I'm not
(47:59):
saying that you should, but I think that I would
fully understand that situation and that mindset. But it does take,
as you already know, significant work to get out of
that mindset and going no, no, no, that's not the reality.
This isn't who I want to be or what I
want to do. And is that the only thing that
you reckon you have to work on to maybe get
to an A plus or what else would have to
(48:21):
change for you to get there.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
No, I think that's it. I think if I was
a bit more reasonable sometime with the kids spending, and
if I was a bit more relaxed around my own money, yeah,
I think I'd be pretty good there.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
I'm the same as you. I feel like before I
was a mum, I was like, oh no, I won't
get carried away with books and puzzles and little things
that he wants. And now he's only what like twenty
months old or something, and I'm literally like, oh my goodness,
Like if he wants something, I'm like, yeah, baby, let's
go get it. You want to go get baby Chinos?
Like I just love spending the time with him, and
(48:53):
like watching his little face light up when he has
a new book, like, ah, it's so bad. It's dangerous,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
And it's the little things because it's not you know.
I always say, like, I don't want to spoil my kid.
I don't want to know, constantly buy him new toys
and new things. But the little things, the books and
the time together and oh you want to have a
little ride on that little merry go around the shopping
center and yes, sure it's only three books and.
Speaker 4 (49:15):
Just it adds No, it does add up. It does
add up, and I have become that mum, And like,
I don't know, I don't think you can spoil your
kids with books, Like I just have this belief and
I will forever like believe that if my kid asks
me for a book, he can have it. Like if
you ask for other stuff, I'll be like, nah, but
if you want a book, like, I will absolutely always
buy you books. I hope that that is something that
(49:38):
you know, hopefully sparks a lot of love for reading
and whatnot, and I know that's good for them. So
I'm kind of like, do you want to go to
Dimicks and like the Dimicks at my house or like
close to my house is across from Coles, So that's
not helpful for me.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
My mom was a literature teacher, so I grew up
surrounded with books and that's definitely something that probably something
I should spend bit less as well. I do have
the library subscription and all that, but yeah, for my kids,
I want the walls covered with books. I'd be happy
with that.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
I love it. I love it or money direst Unfortunately,
we've run out of time. I wish we had so
much more time to chat. But this has been such
a beautiful story of you really starting from scratch, not
once but twice, and then I know, still having a
little bit of baggage when it comes to the emotional side,
but it sounds like you're killing it and the plan
is to retire by fifty So I just think this
(50:27):
is cool, like you've done an epic job, and I'm
just so excited about where you're at now. So thank
you so much for sharing your journey with me. I
know that my community are going to love it just
as much as I have.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
If I shared on She's on the Money is general
in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
should not be relied upon to make an investment or
financial disease. If you do choose to buy a financial product.
Speaker 5 (51:02):
Read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored
towards your needs. Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money
are authorized representatives of Money sherper P t y lt
D A B N three two one six four nine
two seven seven zero eight afs L four five, one,
two eight nine,
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